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COLUMNIST JOE JENNINGS

Kirkby- No thanks

By Joe Jennings :  17/07/2007 :  Comments (31) :

So we discovered earlier this week on the Official Site of a ?major announcement?. 33,000 fans were to be balloted on the prospect of a move outside the city boundaries to Kirkby. Evertonians seem to be divided on the issue. Do we move to a shiny new stadium, with world class facilities and risk losing a huge number of our fan base? Or do we remain at our beloved Goodison, stay for a few more years and see what Liverpool Council can conjure up. I feel the latter will benefit Everton Football in the long run.

People will argue, Goodison is falling down, the queues for food and ale are ridiculous, the toilets are disgusting, and the seats are uncomfortable. If people are going to watch Everton to have a nice bite to eat and a comfy seat then there in the wrong place. Character of a stadium is priceless and Goodison has it in abundance, will a brand spanking new stadium in Kirkby have such character? Doubtful.

We may not be the huge club we once were, at the moment, however we do have something the majority don?t, a special stadium that words cannot describe. The buzz you get when you arrive at Goodison on a matchday is impossible to describe. The pulse always speeds up the closer you get to Goodison. The z-cars theme, the blue shirt, the pitch, the ground, the history - it's all rolled in together in a mighty rush of pride. Do we really want to have a similar stadium to the likes of Bolton, Reading, and Middlesbrough? I have been to stadiums like the ones listed above and they are lifeless, heartless and away from the heart of the community. Moving to Kirkby gives us a huge amount of seats to fill. Granted we have enough fans to fill them but would we have say 50,000 every home game? Doubtful.

I genuinely believe the only long term conqueror in the whole scenario is Tesco. Why should future generations of youth support the team that left the city, when they will have a championship challenging team on their doorstep. Quite simply, it will take only a few years for Everton?s fanbase to drastically decrease, simple as. If the move does go ahead, against the fans backing then Everton will have NO right to call itself ?The Peoples Club?. It would be a mockery. You also have to wonder about Leahy. At the end of the day, first and foremost he is a businessman and he will have TESCO?s best interests at heart, not Everton?s. Will everybody really trust the voting system in place? Just how desperate are Kenwright and co in driving us out of the city. Questionable. It seems to have become evident that it?s either Kirkby or nothing for the next few years

Many will argue put passion and affection to one side, but why should we? They are pivotal reasons on why Everton are so special to all of us. Can anybody really imagine special nights like Man Utd, Bayern Munich at a lifeless new stadium in Kirkby. Somehow I cannot see such atmospheres being re-created. I feel strongly on this and we all deem ourselves ?great supporters? but we seem to be destined for a Wimbledon like scenario and we are being indoctrinated by people who are trying to make us see it differently. If Kenwright was the staunch Evertonian he proclaims to be he wouldn?t even ponder this move and nor should we as fans.

Many want us to be challenging the top clubs again, is this a distinct possibility if we surrender our local territory? Doubtful. Quite simply, the city of Liverpool will only have ONE football club and this will therefore result in the dramatic downfall of our local fanbase. I still feel hugely let down by the council. Although I wasn?t born when the initial plans for Everton moving to Stanley Park were rejected I know enough to suggest it is hugely unjustified to now allow Liverpool to build a stadium there. People will argue, it was a different council back then but the same principle should apply. The regeneration that has been promised to Liverpool in a park that EFC were strictly not allowed to touch is bizarre and comical to say the least.

Fans will argue if we don?t move now, we?ll be stuck at Goodison for years to come. Although revenue could be lost, although the place is falling down it remains indescribable and wells you with pride. If the club can be run more effectively and efficiently than in the years past, we could attract an investor. I believe it really does make far more financial sense in the long run to stay put for now, and see what happens. Ask yourself, what are you going to do if the club moves to Kirkby. What pubs are you going to meet your mates in, what chippy are you going to visit. Things like this are important to us as fans and why should we distrupt such rituals for a move to outside the city boundaries? If we move to Kirkby I know we will still go on living, but it will be like our soul has been taken away.

Overall I wanted to express my view that a move to Kirkby is not the best option for Everton Football Club in the long run. Although we would all like a new stadium, do we want one that much to move away from our city and surrender it to Liverpool? Or do we sit tight, resist and await future plans for a stadium within the city. This is the best team we?ve had in my lifetime, success comes on the pitch first. Ask yourself this, do you genuinely believe that Kenwright and co have Everton?s best interests at heart, or do they see this move as a quick way to make profit? A move to Kirkby would result in the downfall of Everton Football Club. We may live on but for how long? Do we really want to see our beloved club that has such history; tradition and honour fade away into the distance? I just pray that as fans we do our duty and vote AGAINST a move to Kirkby and stop this wholesale slaughter of our great club.

Reader Comments

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Brian Waring
1   Posted 17/07/2007 at 10:56:22

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Some good points there Joe.Now be prepared for the flak from Dutch,Doddy,Barks and Co.
Joe Jennings
2   Posted 17/07/2007 at 11:02:34

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Flak is expected mate. Everyone will have different opinions on all of this, but I feel strongly on the argument I have given above.
Mark Cassin
3   Posted 17/07/2007 at 11:10:27

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No flak perse, however i think it’s quite obvious that this ’moving out of our city’ argument is absolute rubbish.
’Build it and they will come’.

i cannot understand the reasoning behind any argument why we shouldn’t move.
Steve Linden
4   Posted 17/07/2007 at 11:22:41

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Originally posted aginst the other version of the article.

Again there are points that have no basis in fact. No-one can categorically state that the fanbase will erode because we?re less than 2 miles outside the city boundary (it ends around the Shell petrol station just before Coppelhouse).

Lots of mentions have been made of land around the airport and how that could be used. This is Speke; it?s in the city but it?s over the other side of the city, difficult to get to and miles away. Moving somewhere like that would probably help erode the fan base.

Also, the vote is being conducted by an outside agency who have creidbility. The question that will be asked may cause an issue but that has to be agreed with the Elecrotal Reform Society.

Finally, rather than just deciding yes or no prior to seeing what?s on offer why not wait until more facts are available and make an informed decision.
Karl Masters
5   Posted 17/07/2007 at 11:14:50

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The point we should all remember is that there are 3 options, not 2.

As well as Goodison Park & Kirkby, we can wait and try and find another location and investor. There is even the fourth one of finding another investor and redeveloping Goodison. By voting Yes to Kirkby you preclude all other possibilities. Therefore, say Yes if you are TOTALLY sure it?s right, and No if you are not.

Not an easy choice, but something inside me keeps saying Kirkby is in the wrong place. There is very little that can change that, aside perhaps from the most wonderful stadium structure that would have the world talking and admiring. From what we know so far, a re-hash of a German stadium with no sliding roof, rolling pitch ( as in Kings Dock )or any discernible form of character comes a long way short in that sense.

It?s in the wrong place, on the edge. And that, you cannot get away from.
Karl Roberts
6   Posted 17/07/2007 at 11:33:58

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Some great valid points there Joe.
I’m still undecided on the issue, nonetheless a good piece
Chris Williams
7   Posted 17/07/2007 at 11:36:12

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the crunch time approaches folks. I await a barrage of ?facts? to justify the move as there is no doubt in my mind that Kirkby is the only option our custodians will consider. ?There is no plan B?
To make an informed decision it is necessary to get relevant facts, not the sort of nonsense in today?s Post which was a PR exercise pure and simple.
I?d like to see some sort of answers to the following:-
(1)there is no proof either way as to whether the fanbase will or won?t erode. Has any research been carried out on this?
(2)we don?t live on an island - what impact will LFC?s ?expansion? have within the city over time?
(3) apparently DM will get up to £10m per season for new players because of the move.What are these figures based on? If it?s on crowds of 55000, where are the extra 20000 coming from?
(4)before Kirkby is ready in 2010 we will stay at GP.What are the implications of saying there until,say, 2012 - at 5 years well within the 10 year deadline mentioned by KW
(5)what will a ?free? stadium do to the value of the club and consequently to the share price? Is this obsession on Kirkby in any way related to anybody?s ?exit plan? in which case there may be a conflict of interest?

there are clearly many issues to consider. It is not our job as voters to make a?business decision?, it?s our job to make our minds up about the future of this club that we?ll have to live with for generations. We can only do this with relevant, supported facts which are in short supply and knowing how the club is increasingly run I suspect will remain so.
But I believe without the sort of facts mentioned here and elsewhere on this site(and others) we have no option but to vote ?no?.
John Green
8   Posted 17/07/2007 at 12:36:07

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Ground Move / Ballot

I keep an open mind as to a move to Kirkby but I find Mr Wyness’ comments alarming. He is the Chief Executive charged with the stewardship of our club - to say there is no plan B is a disgrace - in all businesses there should be fall back positions - what if Tesco changed its CX and took a different view?

Second - if there is any danger of us not securing safety certificates for Goodison Park in 2010 what will the club do to secure the same - because if the construction of a new stadium is delayed for any reason EFC will have that problem.

And am I alone in thinking that scare stories on the back of the big ballot announcement are meant to build support for the Kirkby option - I feel there is a degree of manipulation here.

And finally, Peter Rackman used slum landlord techniques to his advantage in the ’60s - is Mr Wyness going to let Goodison Park deteriorate until there is no option but to move?

Do we really put our trust in this guy?
Peter Laing
9   Posted 17/07/2007 at 12:38:12

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Great article Joe and my heart goes with your sentiments, however as crunch time approaches we will all need the clarity of letting the head rule the heart. The million dollar question is if we can get it right on the park then expect the legions to follow be it Kirkby or anywhere else. If we remain at Goodison and stagnate then expect comparrisons of the tale of the King with the shiny new coat as we look enviously across the Park at the Mac-Anfield drome. I love the grand old lady as much as anyone else but I’m a little tired of queing for a piss at half time, spending an age trying to get a pie, being crushed on the way out and forking out £500 plus for the priviledge. It’s the 21st century, a stadium and a team to befit it would be progress in my book.
Tim Veitch
10   Posted 17/07/2007 at 12:37:55

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Joe, you’ve got too many issues rolled into one. You claim that a new stadium, being new and comfortable will never have the character of Goodison and therefore we’ll lose supporters.

HOWEVER! ANY new stadium we build (including a stadium inside Liverpool’s boundary) will be newer and more comfortable than Goodison. Will we lose supporters then?

More likely, your real argument is argument is against Kirkby itself.

We need to break the issue up a bit.

- Do we want a new stadium?
- If so, how much do we want to spend in total? What are our options in terms of location, funding, type of stadium?
- How much do we want to stay in the Liverpool boundary? And how much are we prepared to pay for it...50 million pounds?

My reading of your article is that you simply don’t want a ’new’ stadium.
Joe Jennings
11   Posted 17/07/2007 at 12:56:27

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I can understand your thoughts. I just feel Kirkby is not the right move for us at the moment. However If a site was designated in the right area, at the right time then that would be a different matter.
Steve McBride
12   Posted 17/07/2007 at 12:50:23

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No ?plan B?, why the vote?
Stadium worth £75m, world class faciliies?
NS?NO?
Ben Chambers
13   Posted 17/07/2007 at 13:12:23

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After reading about what the deal consists of and what it would mean to Everton, I would snap Teso’s hand off if they found a site within the city of LIVERPOOL, fuck.... i’d snap Netto’s hand off never mind Tesco.

The simple fact is, that Everton was the first scouse football team and I for one will be voting NO to the move.

As a season ticket holder in the park end, there is now way I will let my head rule my heart on this one because when I have kids and they have kids, they will end up supporting the Shite for the reasons mentioned above.

There is no boubt is a great deal but if blue nose Terry fucking Leahy took his business goggles off, there is no way he would want us to move to Knowsley!

And i would love Moyes to have an extra £10m to spend every year and us to challenge for the leage, the top 4, BUT ..... even if we move to an 80,000 seater stadium and filled the bastard, it still aint gonna happen because the BIG 4 have massive grounds and/or super rich owners!

We are competing for 5,6 and the Eufa cup and we can do that easily without moving from Goodison and by someone just investiging in the team!

How the fuck do Pompey and Birmingham and Villa get this new investment and we cant???? we are twice the size of these clubs!! IT BOILS MY PISS!!!!! Pompey are splashing the cash with a 20,000 seater fucking shed for a ground! Villa rarely get more than 30,000 and Fulham are shitter than any of the above mentioned.... BUT..... they all now have owners who have DOSH and wanna SPEND IT! We dont!


Dont get me wrong, I’d love a new stadium and i’d love nothing more than to see us win everything, but I am a realist and i’d rather us stay where we belong , IN LIVERPOOL!! for now and forever! If these dick ed council leader love us so much! they’ll find us a site in Liverpool!

AND IF ANY LOADED FOOTIE FAN OUT THERE, HOME OR ABROAD, wants a footy club steeped in history, with the best fans in europe and passionate about there club, then swerve the shitty Birminghams and Fulhams and Villa’s and INVEST IN US!

COME ON YOU BLUE BOYS!!!!!
Karl Masters
14   Posted 17/07/2007 at 13:15:26

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Reading the Daily Post website I see that Warren Bradley wants to keep us in the city and states that he has identified more than 2 sites. It?s just the Period of Exclusivity that?s stopped him putting it forward to Everton officially.

He also sates he won?t be giving away £50m of public money which iskind of what Knowsley are doing. However, alternatives such as low cost leases could be possible you would imagine so we should not let that put us off. The possible gain by staying in the city would be worth a bit of extra expense at the start anyway.

Now is the time that this debate was truly opened up to us to see what options are really there. We appear to have maybe 6 already - Stay at Goodison

Go to Kirkby

Warren Bradley?s 3 sites

Sell to a foreign investor ( and they are out there, just BK doesn?t want you to know about it )and start again

Despite this, all we are getting is information on one ( Kirkby ) and nothing else. Why? Well, I always think about a policy adopted by my Company?s Buying Dept Chief in relation to ?gifts?, ?presents? from companies after our business. He said, ? if you are unsure whether you should accept it, ask yourself whether you would want your colleagues to know about it. If the answer is No, you should not be accepting it.? The secrecy on this whole matter does BK no favours in my eyes.

Steve Syder
15   Posted 17/07/2007 at 13:49:59

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For god’s sake!

We are practically being offered a state of the art stadium for nothing, in an area that seems to want to welcome us with open arms, whilst LCC hasn’t given a stuff about us for years!

Wake up you small-town boys!

Brian Waring
16   Posted 17/07/2007 at 14:06:55

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Steve Syder, you say"an area that seems to want to welcome us with open arms" I don’t know where you get that from mate? The last I heard a big majority of Kirkby residents were up in arms over the proposal to move us to their town.It could end up that we are based in a town,were most of the community hate the clubs guts.
Jane Kinselberger
17   Posted 17/07/2007 at 14:22:59

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Everton have got to move forward with the times, and the Kirkby move is a fantastic opportunity for Everton as a club. It is only 3 miles from Goodison Park, not the other side of Liverpool. Who cares about council boundaries, which are being chanaged all the time. We need a new stadium, at the end of the day we?re losing out on renevue from the gates. Maybe we don?t fill Goodison now, but in a brand new state of art stadium more people will come. Everton will be getting the thumbs up in my ballet, as will all my family! People need to stop moaning and move with the times!
Ben Chambers
18   Posted 17/07/2007 at 14:27:12

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A BIT OF GOOD NEWS!

WE ARE ABOUT TO SIGN THE SWISS CAPTAIN JOHANN VOGEL!!

Chris Williams
19   Posted 17/07/2007 at 14:42:23

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Can someone please explain to me how a £75 million pound stadium which is costing £50 million is a world class stadium. Apparently the land is of no value so is being donated, but it sounds none too impressive.
Ilook forward to seeing the artist?s impression

And finally a signing - a free transfer obviously but let?s not be picky. Maybe he?s saving the readies for Riquelme!
Mark Wendlethorpe
20   Posted 17/07/2007 at 14:43:53

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Football has changed and we either move forward or die. Kirkby is a good deal with established, forward thinking UK backers.
Lori Ketern
21   Posted 17/07/2007 at 14:47:28

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i?m still undecided on the Kirkby move, least of all because we haven?t been shown anything yet. But the ?no plan B? statement released today has really angered me. I?m resigned to the fact that we can?t keep Goodison (if that really has been fully explored), but surely the club has to leave no stone unturned to ensure we have a stadium to be proud of for the next 100 years, not just one we can get one on the cheap.

i?ve got this horrible feeling we?ll be at the ?every little helps? stadium with the atmosphere of the Riverside.


i wouldn?t move my family into a crap house in an unsuitable area just because i got the ?bargain of the century?
John Patrick McFarlane
22   Posted 17/07/2007 at 15:30:49

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Beggars can’t be choosers so the proverb goes, and Everton Football Club are unfortunately the beggars at this moment in time and for the foreseeable future. I honestly don’t believe that Wyness and BK are going down the road to Kirkby in order to line their own pockets, neither do I believe that leaving Liverpool is the right move for the long term future of the club. I never ever thought even in the dark days of the early 90s that EFC would be in such a horrible financial situation as they now find themselves. Everything the club has stood for during its first century has been eroded. We no longer only live in the shadow of our nearest rivals, we are now just a shadow of our former selves. How and why all this has happened is in some respects obvious, in others less so. I genuinely feel sorry for Bill Kenwright there could not have been a worse time to be at the helm of Everton Football Club, and in the not too distant future we will become a works team, that works being TESCO. I would probably have been a little more impressed if TESCO or Terry Leahy had bought the club outright, but what is on the table smacks of ’cheap and not so cheerful’. The hard to swallow truth is we have lost our soul somewhere along the line and don’t even have the comfort of a rich benefactor. Such is the cruel world of football and business.
John Burns
23   Posted 17/07/2007 at 15:46:52

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Good Article mate, Personally I cannot and will not vote on the stadium until we have more than 2 choices. 1st choice at the moment is move to Kirkby. 2nd Choice Stay at goodison. As much as it hurts to say we have to move but to be given only one option in what is easily the biggest decision this club has ever faced is total farce. Give me more than one location and business case, stadium design etc so I can make an "informed decision" until that moment can any of us really make an informed decision on what is best for EFC....that includes the board.
Steve McBride
24   Posted 17/07/2007 at 16:44:28

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This is going full circle this. Bradley?s full of shit too, identifying land and getting someone to cough £75m, no Tesco discount remember, for a ?nice stadium? are two very different things.
Horace Kelly
25   Posted 17/07/2007 at 16:21:51

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"Build it and they will come" - yes and no. Two things need to be considered - stadium and location.

The current EFC infrastructure - from buying tickets to watching the match - is a shocker : you can?t get through to the ticket office, you never know what kind of ticket you?re buying, most of what you get is restricted view, as well as the other problems other people have mentioned like refreshments, toilet facilities and so on - we need a new stadium very badly indeed. The current one, for all the nostalgia attaching to it, is a dump. If we don?t move and improve, there is a real risk of the fanbase being eroded medium and long term anyway, irrespective of the competition?s brand new stadium and so on. The point that many correspondents seem to miss is that, if the club and its backers get it right, then a decent new stadium, in the middle of a new retail complex with decent pre and post match bars, eating facilities, etc. will be an actual attraction and not just something you pass through to get to and from the match - and that?s why very savvy people like Tesco will get in on the act, because they won?t lose by it.

Next, the actual location. The current "favourite" is 3 miles from the current GP - if you?re driving, that?s no distance, especially as you can expect decent parking in the new location. There will be real problems if the current public transport links aren?t improved, and there seems to be nothing said about that at the moment, but it is early days.

While I, like other correspondents, am disappointed at Wyness?s "there is no Plan B" statement (there is always a Plan B, you just have to look very hard for it sometimes), I?ve yet to see any real alternatives identified. And that?s not just the site, but costings, backers, finance, and so on. Given that they are either very scarce or non-existent, it?s not suprising the current management have got their teeth around Leahy?s wrist.

In summary, if done properly, a move could be a real success story, and improve everybody?s experience. If we don?t go, the last couple fo years might be a short break into a long downward curve for the Club.
Jay Louise
26   Posted 17/07/2007 at 17:28:01

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Excellent Joe. Packed with emotion and pride. I?ll be voting against Kirkby.
Tony Ainscough
27   Posted 17/07/2007 at 19:25:01

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Where is the evidence that our fanbase will erode? I have lived in Sefton and Knowsley but never in Liverpool. I have supported the blues all my life and so have my family through generations and they will continue to do so, surely one thing guaranteed to erode our fanbase would to see a clapped out GP and a team bought on the cheap standing next door to a state of the art 80,000 stadium with a team full of 20 mill plus players because this is what will happen if we dont move. Its' everyones right as a blue to have there own opinions on the move but we can do without the scaremongering.
Jack Omsk
28   Posted 17/07/2007 at 20:26:22

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I will be voting against the stadium. Why?

Well what stadium is it? What will it look like? How many people will it hold? All these questions need to be answered before i vote yes. I want to see some form of plan, not promises that we will get an extra 10 million a season for transfers. How can someone make an assumption like that, its ridiculous. We get dont hit the 35000 mark when playing fulham, blackburn, boro and the like. How will we fill 55,000.
Alistair Anderson
29   Posted 17/07/2007 at 20:33:22

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Wouldn’t it be nice to hear from BK, the silence is deafening. Does he really want history to record that he was responsible for taking Everton to Kirkby. One interesting point, BK was interviewed on Radio Merseyside after the AGM. Gary Flintoff asked him whether a new stadium (wherever it was) would generate the money necessary to allow Everton to compete at the top of the Premier League. BK’s response was ’my heart says yes my head says no, that will take a major investor’. Enough said.
Tony Towers
30   Posted 18/07/2007 at 08:24:07

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If we are all convinced that this ballot is rigged/publicity exercise then why can’t we just accept that we will be moving and move on.

I don’t want to leave the city nor am I naive enough to take the move to Kirkby lightly but I have to face the facts.

It will not stop me loving the club that I have supported since I was a boy and will not stop me passing that love to my boys.I will not stop going to the match just because it is another ten minutes on my journey beacuse I am an Evertonian just like everyone on this site.

I applaud some of the passion I read on this site and some of the extremely good articles posted.

We are born Evertonians and we all love the club and I for one will support the club whatever happens.

You are the graetest fans in the world. Once an Blue always a Blue.
Daniel Mullally
31   Posted 18/07/2007 at 16:05:53

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Joe,

It is great, and refreshing to see your comments, I myself have posted similiar sentiments under ’Wyness’ and ’ Immaculate Conception’ in the mailbag. I am glad that there is still positive fans out there with the heart to keep fighting for what ultimately is in the best interests of the club.
Although I know that staying in Goodison is not an option. We MUST change. But change must be for the better and the club moving to Knowsley is not for the better. I do not dispute that we have some great fans from Knowsley and Sefton. But the bread and butter, Core following of Everton comes from the city that gave birth to it-Liverpool. To move and take the choice away from future generations of kids just aint right.


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