Column Head and Heart: A definite No to Kirkby Ged Dwyer 10/08/2007 14comments | Jump to last If you can think this one through sensibly it has to be a NO vote to Kirkby. You can't trust Kenwright to get anything right as he's proved this in the past. Remember the Kings Dock. People say we have to move or we will be left behind. If we move to the wrong place we'll actually be left behind further. By moving out of Liverpool and away from Walton most youngsters in Liverpool will start to support the only club in the area, Liverpool FC. That's why Liverpool FC said they would move no further than Stanley Park. Liverpool understand this so why can't our Board and the Yes voters understand? In time our support would reduce. We can't afford to gamble with our support. If there was only one team in Liverpool, you could probably get away with moving anywhere. But this is a two-club city and if one club moves away it will help the support of the club who stays. In this case Liverpool. Do you want that? There is no guarantee that we will generate more money if we move. You still need to be successful to do that. And there is no sign of this at present. For a new ground to generate extra money it must be in the right place. And Tesco and Knowsley will want big slices of any profit seeing as they put the money in. You can?t trust Kenwright?s ability to negotiate the right deal. Of course Goodison Park can be redeveloped over time, and it would be a lot cheaper than moving. Don't believe anything else. You should take a look at Croke Park in Dublin. A fantastic Stadium. They've even built a stand over a train track and a canal proving if there is a will, there is a way. And of course there are other better sites that can be used other than the one in Kirkby. Don't forget that Kenwright won't always be here and when we find someone with money there will be plenty of options. There might be other options now anyway. But once we've sold Goodison and moved to Kirkby it will be much harder if impossible to move back. Liverpool is going to be the City Of Culture and we must be on that bandwagon to promote Everton's name. Liverpool FC will jump on every bandwagon they can to ensure that the world knows there is only one team in Liverpool and they will have a foot in every Liverpool door where there's something in it for them. We won't be able to this. Is it just coincidence that the successful forward-thinking clubs like Chelsea, Arsenal, United and Liverpool are only prepared to redevelop their ground or move a few yards away while backward thinking clubs with no direction are prepared to move anywhere to get a new ground. We will be called Kirkby by the Kopites. And over time this will stick. Everton has to remain near Everton, near Walton. It is better to stay where we are for now. Learn from all the mistakes Liverpool FC will make with their new ground and bang the drum of Everton being the traditional club of Liverpool. And my heart says we started in Stanley Park. We were the first team that played at Anfield. Goodison Park has held FA Cup Finals and World Cup games. We have more right to be here than Liverpool and here we must stay and fight our corner. The Mersey MUST stay blue. And any Evertonian worth his salt will know that! Goodison Park is the most famous ground in England and should not be thrown away for a place in Kirkby. Goodison Park is part of Everton so to break this link is taking something away from Everton. Any move has to be nearby to keep some sort of connection with the past and the future support. The most obvious thing we should be doing is putting pressure on Liverpool Council to give us our corner of Stanley Park. This has never actually been done. We should never give up in fighting for our corner. The mad thing is that with just a few alterations around Goodison we would have all the room we needed. One final thing to bear in mind is that usually the home form drops for a while for a team with a new ground. This could see us relegated if we were not careful. It will be a long-term disaster if we move to Kikby and I want no part in it. Vote Yes and it wlll be on your conscience forever. If we vote No, something else has to be considered. Reader Comments Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer Ray Mia 1 Posted 11/08/2007 at 13:42:17 Report abuse Ged, read Sir Terry Leahy’s letter on the official Everton Website.The no camp are not just looking a gift horse in the mouth, they are dousing it in petrol and setting it aflame.We are never going to get an opportunity like this ever again. I find it hilarious that those in the no camp have put together every possible reason for not moving, simply because they don’t want a move.The truth is, we DO need to move, the truth is we CAN’T afford to do so on our own.And yet when one of the UK’s largest businesses want to come on board and put concrete plans in place, the no camp don’t want to listen.Read the letter, see what is written in plain language by the decision maker himself. Would you rather a substandard stadium with NO investment in the team, or a state of the art facility WITH MASSIVE investment in the team?For goodness sake wake up and smell the coffee.I grew up in Toxteth, and find it ludicrous, hysterical [and yet not surprisingly] stereotypical that there are some inner City Blues - joined by the outer lying City Blues that don’t see that the issue of Kirkby’s geographical location is quite erroneous.I want Everton to win trophies and break into the top four. I also want a brand new modern stadium. And I want both of these things NOW.I don’t want to wait for another option, because there still are none. I don’t want to drag my feet so that another investor pops up and spends another 4 years scoping.Only the Best will Do? the best is right here, right now.Leahy’s letter makes it quite clear, Tesco also own a larger site near Scotland Road [larger than the Loop] and yet they don’t see it as a viable option for a stadium and a commercial venture.There in lies ope of the issues. the no camp want Everton to build a new stadium in the City, and own it all themselves, with no commercial parteers. FACT: this is totally impossible, and only exists in the minds of the no camp, who cannot bury their heads further into the sands of time.Let me put it another way. You get your stadium in the City, but you can’t build a team fit for the premiership to play in it. Or better still, imagine this close season and the next with no signings, and most of the present squad leaving. The club flirts with relegation, before the inevitable. Then we get taken over by a quango or foriegn investor, who then spends another six years getting us back to where we are now.Kirkby? Yes please. VIJ 2 Posted 11/08/2007 at 14:39:17 Report abuse To all ’no’ voters the situation couldn’t possibly be more straightforward: (i) exercise your democratic right and vote ’no’, (ii) exorcise those ungodly demons of delusion and self (appointed) righteousness...Our Knight has finally taken his gloves off and told you how it is... Here’s to balanced reasoning based on true premises over those based on false ones, and a swift end to the uncontrolled demonic rantings of KEIOC. Yes is the way.. Pete 3 Posted 11/08/2007 at 15:17:53 Report abuse NB. The biggest factor behind level of support is TEAM SUCCESS not location. Look at Liverpool and ManU and countless other examples. Vote Yes for our best chance of success...BK may be shite with numbers but Sir Terry Leahy is certainly not! He states clearly that the CLUB (not Tesco) will be financially better of by about 100 MILLION POUNDS through the proposed stadium in L32, than if we went for The Loop or some other site. Sir Terry Leahy is an EVERTONIAN as well as a SUPERB BUSINESSMAN. As Terry states, YES also means we are more attractive to investors. If we vote NO it is not only shafting EFC on the stadium but also effectively barring our attractiveness to new investors. Will the NO VOTERS PLEASE WAKE UP and give the Club the chance of creating great FUTURE HISTORY rather than consigning the Club to having to cling to past glories with no REALISTIC chance of getting back to the top anytime soon. Moyes is astute as well so if you can’t think clearly on this put your faith in the canny Scot and VOTE correctly for future Evertonians even if you are happy to forever be second best to the shite. triple x 4 Posted 11/08/2007 at 18:27:43 Report abuse ged you haven’t brought up nothing new and i have answers to all you points or questions; that I won’t give to you as they are already splashed in several articles on this or other websites.why do people still come up with it? the more i read/hear the arguments from both sides of the barricade i feel the YES one has stronger/better arguments than the oposition; so i’m sorry to say this but, vote reasonably...vote YES! Chris Jones (Wakefield) 5 Posted 11/08/2007 at 19:12:35 Report abuse I’m surprised Sir Terry’s thoughts have not been published sooner, so compelling are his words. The pronouncement of a committed, lifelong supporter - and also the consummate business success who is driving the overall £400m Kirkby plan - surely carries weight, especially when he purports to explain how it is ’everyone wins’. I wonder though, is the publication now of Sir Terry?s thoughts, on the official website, an indication perhaps that ’da management’ are anxious that the vote might be running against them?Now, I should say also, without wishing to influence anyone, that some of Ged?s statements, however, smack of desperation. For example, ?? usually the home form drops for a while for a team with a new ground. This could see us relegated if we were not careful.? Puhlease, that?s just scaremongering. On that reasoning Ged would say ?no? if a fairy godmother? offered to build us a £500m super-stadium (anywhere other than Goodison Road of course).As for the Red Shite calling us Kirkby. So what? We can?t control the actions of idiots.I lived a large part of my life in Manchester, surrounded by Reds and Sky Blues, who were typically at each others? throats. I never once heard a Blue Manc call Manyoo ?Trafford?. Nor, I suspect, has anyone from Fulham ever called Chelsea ?Fulham reserves? (check your London A-to-Z boys, Stamford Bridge is actually in Fulham!).Keep trying to convince one another if you must, but please use sensible argument. I suggest those in the ?No? camp look carefully at what Sir Terry has to say. If you want to sustain your case you are going to have to address, and refute (if you can) what he has to say.Ding, ding ?Seconds out!? Ged Dwyer 6 Posted 11/08/2007 at 19:51:51 Report abuse In reply to :Ray Mia - I have read Terry Leahy’s letter. It all sounds good now but it hardly answers any of my points. I will say to you ’for goodness sake wake up and smell the coffee’. Answer me this. Why did Liverpool FC say they wouldn’t move further than Stanley Park? Kenwright said he would put his reputation on the line over the move to the Kings Dock and look what happened. A pathetic disaster so why should I trust him now? As for Terry Leahy, if he is mixing business with pleasure then his business will always come first, not Everton. And while your at it answer my other points too please.Pete - The biggest factor behind level of support is team success. That is what I said, but money is no guarantee of this, especially with all the other teams having plenty to spend too. So if we move and are not successful our support could eventually diminish as most of the young kids in Liverpool will want to support the only team from Liverpool.Triple X - The very fact that you can’t use your real name tells its own story. I didn’t say that I was saying anything new. And I’m quite positive that you can’t answer the points I mentioned.Chris Jones - ’So compelling’ were Terry Leahy’s words. That’s right they are, just words, and don’t answer any of my points. Some of my points smack of desperation do they? So how come you can only pick on my final point. I say to you the fact that Terry Leahy has had to put a statement on the official site is the real act of desperation. paul quinn 7 Posted 11/08/2007 at 21:38:25 Report abuse Although terribly sad to be moving from Goodison and to a lesser extent Liverpool City boundaries, at last someone has articulated the real benefits of moving to Kirkby alongside Tesco.Remember that Leahy is a Director of a FTSE 100 company, a publicly quoted company, and as such is bound to express the truth when discussing financial matters relating to Tesco PLC in public. His well articulated and IMO truthful summary of the proposed move has swayed my vote.This indeed could be a "deal of the century". It is a pity Wyness could not have articulated the argument so well. toffee rapper 8 Posted 12/08/2007 at 03:03:58 Report abuse Another post, same old KEIOC party line trotted out:"You can’t trust Kenwright"Or KW or anyone else for that matter, attached to everton and/or tesco.So who do the KEIOC believe? Bestway? No one I know had even heard of them before all this, and as for LCC...2 words sum them up:MATTHEW STREET.This particular post is riddled with the usual errors and unsubstantiated allegations, I’ll leave it to other posters to point them out, except for this one:"Of course Goodison Park can be redeveloped over time, and it would be a lot cheaper than moving. Don’t believe anything else."After reading the report ’analysis of the GP option’, where does Ged get the data to back up his claim? Terry marsbar 9 Posted 12/08/2007 at 08:30:05 Report abuse 1:You can’t trust Kenwright to get anything right as he’s proved this in the past. Remember the Kings Dock. < Well actually compare EFC now to pre: B. Kenwright2;People say we have to move or we will be left behind. If we move to the wrong place we’ll actually be left behind further. 3By moving out of Liverpool and away from Walton most youngsters in Liverpool will start to support the only club in the area, Liverpool FC. That’s why Liverpool FC said they would move no further than Stanley Park. Liverpool understand this so why can’t our Board and the Yes voters understand? In time our support would reduce. We can’t afford to gamble with our support. This simply wont happen..most children support the team that thee parents do..we even have suppoerterswho have never set foot in this country who are the children of ex-pats4 same as above..5 There is no guarantee that we will generate more money if we move. You still need to be successful to do that. And there is no sign of this at present. For a new ground to generate extra money it must be in the right place. And Tesco and Knowsley will want big slices of any profit seeing as they put the money in. You can?t trust Kenwright?s ability to negotiate the right deal. Feasability studies by Tesco and everton prove exactly the opposite..your case is based on"WHAT IF"?6: LAUGHABLE7And of course there are other better sites that can be used other than the one in Kirkby. PLEASE READ TERRY TEAHYS LETTER; etc etc etc terry marsbar 10 Posted 12/08/2007 at 08:47:11 Report abuse I,ll try againTesco owns a bigger site than the loop in the same area yet dont see that as viable for development, the loop site can fit in a stadium but the land will need to be bought and we willhave to stump up 100 mill + that we dont have.Kids always have and will support the team of there parents,,even those who live abroad..moving 4 miles wont change this..only were you have your match day pint.!!Investors will be attracted to put money into a club that "OWNS ITS OWN BRAND NEW 150 MILL STADIUM" rather than one needing that investment spent first...Predicting that results will slump..well lets not move anywhere at all..as we cant possibly continue if we leave goodison (on the basis of your point anyway)You dont trust BK KW or TL...tough.they are the ones with the money and the buisness acumen..you are a fan who cant accept change.And my favourite.: "we will get called Kirkby by the kopites"Your right letscall the whole thing off..I mean god forbid one set of fans singing something unbecoming at another set..sticks and stones..In short, you make no pertinent points..and some ridiculous ones, surprised you were allowed to post such drivel..and even more surprised I answered it x colin 11 Posted 12/08/2007 at 10:21:36 Report abuse Anybody who really believes in their heart of hearts that ANY capitalist organisation is going to give money to the likes of Everton for nothing in return,and have our best interests at heart is living in cloud cuckoo land and is on the verge of being called brain dead Ray Mia 12 Posted 12/08/2007 at 18:46:24 Report abuse Colin - as opposed to the retarded notion that a football club is some sanctuary of communal values? Or that those who run the club are not looking at their investments as quite simply that, a bankable asset that has to pay dividends at the end of the day. If you’re going to call anyone brain dead, go ahead and have the courage of your convictions and call people brain dead.Ged - you’re points don’t require answering, as others already have on this thread, and on a myriad of postings. None of the no camp can make their point and keep quiet, there has to be a barrage of postings saying that we are selling our souls, our heritage, our city, out club, our children, our birthright, our future... on and on and on and on.You clearly made no attempt to read my post either. Which is not a problem, it just sums it all up really. As I’ve already said, countless times. Stay and fade away, or leave now and embrace the change of the future. I still find it incredible that the majority of the no camp cannot see the irony with Everton leaving Anfield and the set up of LFC. The entire no camp reeks of a self serving insular attitude that underpins the whole "chip on the shoulder" scouse nonsense of the small minded.Oh, and don’t get offended my fellow scousers, you all know it to be true [Harry Enfield’s The Scousers makes you cringe doesn’t it? Because it gives the nation the words to humilate the region as stupid, bubble permed, shell suit wearing morons]. Thank God Sir Terry is looking out for the benefit of Tescos, as they would not enter into a business plan with another entity that they could not see profit in, meaning [and yet again it has to be spelled out to what some would call "brain dead"] Tesco are looking at Everton as a bankable asset to do business with. Why does everyone not see that one of the UK’s most successful companies, and probably the UK’s largest retail outlet is putting investment INTO Everton?Ged - you don’t want to move, you don’t want BK running the club, you don’t want, you don’t want, you don’t want... the no camp sound like children. And Colin, at least I have the balls to say that as opposed to intimate then retract.Everton deserves better? NO Everton deserves what it has. If a club/business stands still, it dies.No matter what you say about BK, we have gone from relegation contenders year on year, to being the ONLY club to have broken the top 4 in recent years, and we’ve qualified for Europe yet again. Moyes has won the manager of the season award twice in 5 years.Guys, it could have been a whole shit load worse. Give BK a break, or better still, come up with 70million to buy the club, 25 million a year for transfer fees, oh and 150-350 million to rebuild a stadium in your beloved Liverpool City Centre.Oh I’m sorry, you don’t have that kind of money lying around. terrymarsbar 13 Posted 12/08/2007 at 23:24:09 Report abuse Ray Mia: ahhhh, the voice of reason,..strange how some just cant comprehend the ..it all costs money thing..and the , we all make money thing...win win....win win...win win..if I say it enoughit might just work..you know like the titheads shouting "Kenwright out"... Rob F 14 Posted 13/08/2007 at 14:00:39 Report abuse "Anybody who really believes in their heart of hearts that ANY capitalist organisation is going to give money to the likes of Everton for nothing in return, and have our best interests at heart is living in cloud cuckoo land and is on the verge of being called brain dead"Okay, so lets not take any money off any one. Lets not look for a sugar daddy benefactor a la Chelsea, WH, Man C, cos they?ll want something back one day too.Instead lets grow steadily over say 5 years. Lets put our faith in a manager to buy well (most of the time!) on meagre funds and build a team that can get into Europe and generate cash that way. Lets not sell out to foreign investors to pump cash in, lets team up with a successful business, to the benefit of both businesses, and end up with a shiny new stadium owned by the club, while the other business end up with a huge new shop with fantastic infrastructure.I agree Colin, anything but ’yes’ is just brain dead. Brian Mills 15 Posted 15/08/2007 at 22:06:57 Report abuse Sir Terry leahy runs the no1 retailer is this country and is a genious in business building,they have got the land to build in Liverpool but as he states it is not viable. We are being offered to in with them in Kirkby and some of you guys are refusing??????? this beggars belief .Sir terry and tesco are building the biggest tesco in the country and why are they building it in Kirkby,because the town is going through major changes with private investment only second to Liverpool 08 and Tesco and knowsley council are investing £400 million in phase one then £200million in phase two.Sir Terry and his advisors dont just say here is a plot of land "lets build a tesco there" a full study is done and believe me tesco will prosper and we will too and I will be quite proud to be linked to a major brand name in the top 100 ftse ........as for the guy who said he is mixing business with pleasure!! this is not Sir Terrys little toy......it is a major investment by the board who know how to make money.It means I will have to travel further to get there but I cannot wait.KIRKBY-YES-PLEASE © ToffeeWeb