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Kenwright Out!

By Steve Guy :  16/07/2009 :  Comments (72) :
Blue Bill’s comments as reported from the recent Shareholder’s meeting left me angry. Angry that he claims there is no investor willing to take Everton on, when the evidence is there for all to see, in the takeovers at Manchester City, Portsmouth, Sunderland, and Villa. Angry that he actually thinks so little of his audience (including me and you) that he believes that they will swallow this as fact. Angry that, as a result of this arrogance and patronising attitude, Moyes will again be asked to work miracles; whilst in reality we fail to take advantage of the progress we have undoubtedly made in recent seasons and start to fall away again.

It is a cliché, but nonetheless true, that Everton are at a watershed moment in the Club’s history. I used to think that the EPL bubble would burst sooner rather than later and justified to myself and others that, as a result, our steady and thrifty progress was the right approach. However, given that, in the worst recession for 60 years, money continues to be pumped into the Premier League in seemingly increasing amounts, I was clearly wrong. The bubble is unlikely to burst for many years to come.

We all know that, whilst all EPL clubs get a share of the pie, the cream that goes with the latter is reserved for the top 4 spots and the revenues this generates at home and abroad, both from competitions, TV and merchandise. The money pouring in is an attempt to get at that cream. The new backers at City and Villa are not there as football fans, but as business men wanting a return on their investment; they won’t all get it, but that seems to be a risk they are all prepared to take.

The now traditional fillers of the Top Four placings in the Premier League are to various extents getting nervous. Up until recently, they could rely on the Champions League gravy train to keep their revenues (and hence spending power) streets ahead of their rivals — making the result each year a virtuous circle of success and reward to the exclusion of everyone else. Not anymore. It probably won’t happen next year, but I will lay money on 2011-12 being the season when the “Big Four” are cracked open, with City or Villa likely to achieve Champions League spots and silverware in cups at least.

By 2012-13, the Big Four will be a Big Six. It’s not a foregone conclusion, but the Big Four was actually a Big Three until the Abramovich bought Chelsea, so why would the spending power at clubs like City not have the same outcome?

So where does that leave Everton? Bill Kenwright’s power base at Goodison is unassailable unless he decides otherwise. He clearly doesn’t want to sell because, regardless of what he says, there are plenty of investors out there; he just doesn’t want to know.

He is prepared to keep Moyes on starvation rations from a spending point of view... hoping against hope that DM can gatecrash the party, as he threatened to do a few seasons ago. The logic seems to be that we will then have the increase in revenue that will sustain our place at that Top 4 / 5 / 6 table. Two top-five finishes on the bounce have nurtured this belief for Kenwright and have ensured that, at least in the short term, Moyes remains committed to the Club.

This was always a high-risk approach and it nearly worked. However, the newly monied clubs are about to change the landscape and we are ill-prepared for what will be a very competitive league next season and beyond. I have no doubt the players and manager will give their all again, but the hill they have to climb is getting steeper all the time and we are not equipped to continue to scale the heights and won’t be any time soon; with the inevitable result being top ten finishes as the most we can hope for.

I hope I am wrong and I’m happy for anyone who may comment on this article to try to prove the opposite. But for me... "Kenwright Out"? Absolutely.

Reader Comments

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Paul Gladwell
1   Posted 16/07/2009 at 05:24:29

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It certainly was not good reading, if somewhat honest this morning reading how skint we are. Although Moyes stated we are not selling, I suspect he may be covering his tracks with rumours of Lescott's transfer request (which could be garbage).

With the price of basic players becoming silly, I suspect Moyes would be looking at £25M+ and if City have no luck with JT, I suspect they will pay what they have to for Lescott. He is a superb player but our manager is in a pickle of a situation. If we do sell though just where will it end? The lack of ambition will certainly have an impact on other players like Arteta and co too.

It seems to me that everything is riding on this Kirkby decision, as I am quite sure Moyes will be getting fed up now and he must be getting some words of reassurance. If it falls through I am positive Bill, despite his 24/7 shout will be gone by Xmas.

Whatever way this coming season is a massive one for this club, it HAS to show ambition, or we will lose the people who have dragged us close to where we want to be, and no amount of cringworthy praises will stop that.

Steve Sweeney
2   Posted 16/07/2009 at 07:22:25

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Well he has to speak doesn't he... LESCOT IS NOT FOR SALE Well thats what DM has said — no-one will be leaving The Club without being sanctioned by Davey Boy. Talk about passing the Buck.

Kenwright is the biggest Bullshitter in the Premiership. The last time we had a player who was worth something he more or less said the same things. Be prepared for an announcement from Davey Boy stating "the Boy wanted to go and the offer of £25m from City meant I couuld have access to £10m for my team building."

Kenwright makes me so fucking angry, why doesn't he just keep his big mouth shut and let the papers speculate away. The quicker he goes the better. But that ain't gonna happen soon... More the pity.

Terry Maddock
3   Posted 16/07/2009 at 13:44:55

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I do apologise, I must be looking in the wrong place... could somebody please direct me to the long list of potential buyers of Everton FC?

You know, the ones that have made a bid and been sent on there merry way by BK. Or the ones who have actually come out and said, "Yes, we are intersted in buying Everton but the Chairman's made it clear they are not for sale." I can't seem to find it... no matter where I look.

And Steve... didn't the chairman really just say that the manager is in charge of the football side of things? You know, who he buys... who he sells... who plays — that sort of thing. That's not really passing the buck is it? That's football.

Still, any old rope...
Ciarán McGlone
4   Posted 16/07/2009 at 13:43:50

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It’s clearly a concerning situation. Bill says that ’no investors have the money we need’... while we have a whole host of teams that have had major investment over the last couple of years.

We also have the curious situation of Robert Earl suggesting that Bill is protecting the minor shareholders from a legal buyout by not selling his shares... Which one is it? One hand doesn’t seem to know what the other one's doing.

Or maybe they think we’re all too stupid to appreciate the dichotomy in their different stories? I for one, don’t believe a word that comes out of their mouths anymore...

I have serious concerns for this club while it’s run by Duffy’s circus... but I expect these concerns to be castigated and this thread to turn in nothing other than a personal slanging match (and no doubt some bright spark will point to my concerns as some sort of ’slanging match’...)
Marcus Dawson
5   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:00:22

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Don’t see that this thread needs to descend into anything. Opinions are polarised where BK is concerned, but the basic issue is the on-going lack of proper information and a history of half-truths and butt-clenching embarrassment. None of us can fathom why we haven’t at least been the subject of a serious bid and the ground move is once again shrouded in uncertainty.

The only thing BK does with any consistency is to mislead the public, that is a categorical fact. I know he loves the club, I know he’s a lovely fella, but I can’t work out his motives. Is he really waiting for the ground move so he can maximise his value, or is it that he can’t let go? Is he a complete fuckwit, or is he one step ahead of all of us?

We never learned the truth behind Wyness's sudden departure (or the guy before him), yet Moyes stays loyal, albeit after hanging out for a monster salary. There are dark deeds at EFC I’m not at all sure any of us have half a clue, whichever side of the fence you’re on, the plain truth is that most of us are going on what we think and feel as opposed to what we know.

Bill out for me, get some money and a little transparency into EFC and build for the future from Goodison.

Jay Harris
6   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:12:52

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Where was Billy Liar’s concerns for the minority shareholders when he changed the Articles of Association of the club to gag them so that they couldn't contest Kirkby?

DK is the gravy train for Kenwright, Earl, Green and Leahy.

Watch this space.
Tony Marsh
7   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:14:56

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Kenwright can't sell untill he gets his pay-off from Tescos if the Kirkby Dome goes ahead. You see if DK gets the nod and we build it, Kenwright has something to bargain with when he tries to sell. Right now EFC would be a steal for a buyer as they would only have to pay for shares and a drink for BK as we own fuck all as a club.

Goodison Park is mortgaged to the hilt, we rent Finch Farm from whoever owns it, and all we really have as a bargaining tool is the Premier League money and whatever BK paid for the club (£20 million I think).

If Kenwright loved Everton as much as he says then he could double his investment and still virtually give the club to a buyer for buttons which would enable a new ground to built with the monney saved... some chance of that though.
Michael Brien
8   Posted 16/07/2009 at 13:59:13

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Kenwright Out? Then who would we have in his place? I remember back in 1993 (I think it was) when a certain Peter Johnson fooled us all with his promises. We seem to have forgotten that part of our history. Kenwright has had to contend with years of neglect and complacency by previous administrations.

I am not saying that the bloke is without fault or that he hasn’t made mistakes. But let’s put things into perspective here. It seems to me that some of you are back playing the annual game of blame everything that goes wrong on Kenwright. That’s rather too easy an option in my opinion.

There was mention of Aston Villa as gearing up for joining the big 4. Do you mean the same club that seems resigned to losing Ashley Young? And who appear prepared to spend £10m plus on a player who may not be fit until November/December? Looks like a good plan to get in the top 4 there, don't you think? Gareth Barry didn’t seem too convinced.

Whilst our squad is far from choc-full of world class stars/household names at least we have no Rod Belfit/Bernie Wright playalikes. Some of us remember the 1970s and some of the dross that we had to put up with then — funny... I can’t recall there being any "John Moores Out!" campaign.

Mark Dunford
9   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:12:57

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Every year, a variation on this article appears. The one where Mr Angry loses his marbles and froths at BK.

Everton were the last team to break the Sky 4 barrier and have finished 5th for past two seasons. We’ve got a small squad which needs enlarging and we could do with one or two marquee signings. I guess these will come by the end of the Summer. Man City are starting from next to nowhere and putting together a version of the Harlem Globetrotters by poaching players from every team above them.

Next season will be competitive and there is a chance that the Sky 4 stranglehold will be broken — Chelski are aging with yet another manager; Arsenal are creaking... and the shite are also on verge of losing players from their enormous squad. Villa have lost two key players and need to replace them as well as signing new ones. They finished below Everton. Spurs and Sunderland appear to have money too, but neither have a half decent team.

None of this is BK’s fault and Everton are a model of stability compared to all these clubs. I’d rather be in Everton’s place than City’s. Newcastle failed on big investment. Big money can be capricious and a struggling City could easily lose the interest of their owner if he decides to cut losses in a downturn.

I guess the "Moyes must Go!" people are holding fire 'til we lose a game...

Ciarán McGlone
10   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:37:10

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"If Kenwright loved Everton as much as he says then he could double his investment and still virtually give the club to a buyer for buttons which would enable a new ground to built with the monney saved... some chance of that though."
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This is the bottom line for me. On the nail Marsh.

If he loves the club so much then why not take what he paid for his shares (his slice at around 8mill)..that way he won’t be laible for the debt he has racked up...and he’ll be finally be able to pay off his much talked about mortgage.

Either he’s not in love with the club enough to be this philanthropic...or there’s other forces at work which he’s protecting.

Either way, he’s a painfully exercising man(to be euphemistic).
Ciarán McGlone
11   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:44:26

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"Kenwright Out? Then who would we have in his place? I remember back in 1993 (I think it was) when a certain Peter Johnson fooled us all with his promises. We seem to have forgotten that part of our history. Kenwright has had to contend with years of neglect and complacency by previous administrations."
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And tell me, was a certain Mr Kenwright not part of that ’previous administration’?
Marcus Dawson
12   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:43:16

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Michael and Mark, I think you’re missing the point, it’s nothing to do with the devil you know, it’s about trying to unravel BK’s motives and demystify some of the things that go on behind closed doors. I’m sure he’s hanging on for KD, then he’ll sell out, but it does rather contradict his public statements on the issue of selling the club (could he be lying).

I personally think he’s in debt to some pretty unsavoury characters and it’s they who are now calling the shots, not our Chairman. If you guys really want to go for point scoring, look no further than the Fortress debacle, totally indefensible.

Jamie Rowland
13   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:28:00

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Jay Harris... What do you mean by ’gag’ the small shareholders?

The motion to change the Articles of Association made complete sense. Without it, we would all still be meeting up for EGM’s because someone spent the time to get some signatures. Time wasting and costly. Marks and Spencers, BP etc. all have similar conditions in that a major share holder has to back a movement for an EGM. Why is that so wrong?

Now to the article.

It did concern me that Kenwright stated there were no buyers because clearly there are. However, I do think that the stadium ’abyss’ turns them away, especially because many investors would not be willing to plough a few £100m into a new stadium... why would they? Why would they want the hassle, the debates, the arguements and the fees when they can get the completed package at a later date (that's not assuming that we will be inundated with offers once a new stadium arrives — be it in Kirkby or at Goodison).

To argue that Kenwright is holding his assets until they are worth their maximum and that this is selfish... is, quite frankly, a ludicrous, laughable statement. Any shareholder of any stock will do exactly the same... and be proud of it when it pays off. Any householder will wait for a market increase before selling... Simply put, everyone holds out for the ’right price’ — and that is usually the biggest price (when selling).

From a footballing, moral standpoint, money doesn’t guarantee success and as the author put it... the big 4 may well become the big 6 (although I doubt UEFA will give us 6 places in the CL, considering they are trying to reduce it to 3 currently). So, more to the point, there will be 6 regulars fighting for 4 places every season.

With that in mind, is it worth bailing out now to an Arab/Asian billionaire (probably with a chequered past) in a vain attempt at success or do you wait and see the outcome... two teams have to fail the race as described (assuming they overtake the rest of us).That would surely lead to catastrophic failure financially? If those two happen to be Liverpool and Arsenal and the CL revenue ceases — what happens then? Do we get another Leeds scenario and the big 6 becomes the big 4 once more?

Kenwright’s comments no doubt anger you when you see other clubs being bought out and lavished with endless millions. But disaster for at least one (if not two) of those teams looms. If I was a decent economist, I would theorise that "There are only so many players available that can help a team reach the heights. If they are bought for £10M then that means there is £10M to spend in someone else's pocket. The relative riches, provided that more clubs gain dodgy buyers, will equilibriate over time."

My opinion is that we just have to ride the wave and remain stable. Manage our debt and do the best with the resources available. On the other hand, I could join the masses and hope that some half-witted generous loved-up Evertonian billionaire (like Mike Ashley at Newcastle?) buys us...

Bernt Hellman
14   Posted 16/07/2009 at 14:50:08

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I just so disagree. BK has not got the money required; very few have. But what he has got is a true blue heart; anyone saw his reaction to that penalty kick at Wembley? I felt exactly the same and I bet there were thousands of us there who made exactly the same impression when we realised it had gone in. The day the right investor comes in he will hand over the reigns, in the meantime we should all be grateful we have a true Evertonian as our chairman, who does all he can to support the team, the manager and the organisation. COYB!
Steve Guy
15   Posted 16/07/2009 at 15:03:29

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I took no pleasure in writing the article. In fact, if you look back over previous seasons you will find I have previously written very much in BK’s defence and along the lines of comments made above.

I agree for once with Tony Marsh, if BK was consistent, he would have sold long ago and still made a tidy profit. What annoys me is the now obvious back sliding, double speak and contradictory statements he comes out with.

I don’t like being patronised and that is what now regularly happens. If I had been told by Kenwright that he hadn’t sold because some nasty billionaire would take my few shares as well (as was the case at the meeting the other night) I would have taken great exception.

Few would doubt his love for the Club as a supporter, but he’s milked this dry now as an excuse for not getting the investment sorted.

Those above who say where are the investors ? Surely I made that point, they are clearly out there and currently buying other clubs despite a recession.

I also don’t buy the whole DK thing as a reason for not selling; a billionaire Sheikh just turned up at Portsmouth, whose infrastructure is worse than ours and with a new stadium even further away, despite plans for a waterfront development. Speaking of which, I let BK off with that one too at the time and even when it later became clear that he screwed that up through a lack of commercial nouse and a whole lot of dithering.

I agree that there are lot’s of scenarios in which we might still make it and some of the rich clubs might implode. It’s all I cling onto now, but hope is fading. Again, I hope I am wrong and some of you are right.
Andy Codling
16   Posted 16/07/2009 at 15:25:15

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It's amazing that supporters come on here and still defend BK, the man has as many blunders and backstabbing lies attached to him than Johnson ever did. But then again he is an Evertonian through and through and he did celebrate at Wembley when we scored a penalty, so let's forget Fortress Sports Fund, Kings Dock, watch this space, we won't sell Rooney for £50 million and were looking 24/7 for investment.

I've nothing personal against the man but he's an idiot who thinks everyone else is an idiot, ie the fans.

Charlie Dixon
17   Posted 16/07/2009 at 16:21:28

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I completely agree with Terry Maddock on this one. Who is it that’s trying to buy the clu? Surely we would have heard a little bit more in the press and even local gossip about potential buyers.

I do agree he needs to go, but I seem to think that for some reason or another we’re not being looked at. Maybe it is him. It just seems terribly quiet about investment for a club that has supporters with their ears to the ground so often and are regularly correct.

One thing I will add is that if we get offered £25m for Lescott, then whether we are a "selling club" or not. That’s silly money for a player who has a very worrying right knee. I’d take £18m+ everyday of the week.

Andy Crooks
18   Posted 16/07/2009 at 16:37:52

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On the field, Everton have been steadied despite Bill Kenwright, not because of him. He is living the dream on the cheap. Yes, he’s an Evertonian but so is everyone who posts on this site.

Bill Kenwright is a luvvy who will never give up this club. If he should ever get investment, it will be on condition that he is still here in some ridiculous capacity.

Ismael Bondarenko
19   Posted 16/07/2009 at 16:58:52

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Charlie Dixon,

Lescott has missed two games in two years, one of which he was simply rested for. Worrying right knee my arse!! He didn't even pick up a footballing in injury when he missed Wolves’s previous stint in the PL, it was from a hiding. Talk some sense man. Wish I had such ’worrying’ ailments.
Tony Williams
20   Posted 16/07/2009 at 17:20:44

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I agree with your first part Charlie, if anyone had the slightest interest in buying our club there would be something in the media or on the interweb, there has been absolutely nothing, if BK was stopping a perfectly good offer, do people not think that the offeror would let it be known that he is stopping it, they have nothing to lose if BK is refusing to deal with them.

The second part, not so much, he was an everpresent until he was rested for the game on the last day before the yellow card immunity started.
Andy Codling
21   Posted 16/07/2009 at 17:49:45

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He’s lying , his lips are moving
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5435855,00.html
Michael Brien
22   Posted 16/07/2009 at 17:38:10

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Mark Dunford had it right I think when he mentioned that every year we seem to get this type of article. If someone was to say to me — "That Tim Howard is rubbish, we should get shut of him", I am sure that I would not be the only one who would reply along the lines — "Who would you have instead of him then?"

Kenwright Out... to be replaced by whom? Those who are of the opinion that BK should sell up and be on his way seem to have very little idea of who they would like to see instead of him.

I am not saying that BK is perfect — far from it — but I would rather have him in charge than some of the other Chairman/owners including Abramovic.

On the subject of investing in the team, by my calculations Sir Alex has spent about £25M of the £80M they got for Ronaldo. Didn’t he say the other day — no more signings this summer? It seems economic reality eventually affects everyone. Our dear neighbours seem to be in the position of probably losing a couple of their "big names". And Aston Villa who some of the BK Out brigade seem to think are on the verge of getting into the top 4? Funny that Gareth Barry didn’t seem to agree with that opinion.

Let’s show some patience for a change — I wonder how many of the doom and gloom merchants made it down to Wembley ?

Steve Guy
23   Posted 16/07/2009 at 18:12:37

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Michael Brien (and others) "Kenwright Out — to be replaced by who ?" is to some extent the whole point of the article. Someone with money — that’s who, but it can’t happen because Kenwright is blocking it from happening and just spouting increasing amounts of BS to boot.

I for one have been showing patience with him for a number of years (defending him too) but enough is enough.

By the way, both me and my family all made it to Wembley, although I’m not sure what relevance that has to the argument.
Gavin Ramejkis
24   Posted 16/07/2009 at 18:14:57

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Maybe the money BK paid for Everton wasn’t his in the first place — remember, his net worth, even with mortgaging his house at the time, was less than he paid agent Johnson and has been rumoured all along to have been a handout from his mate Green, who it was also implied used Earl as a front to inject more cash to oust BK’s other former friend Gregg after he came too close for comfort of gaining control over the trainset and funding the KD.

What if Green is pulling the strings of Black Bill and saying "Not for Sale" until he gets a decent return on his loans? It’s utter bullshit to think that not one single investor has had a look at Everton with all the buyers that have come and gone over the last 5-6 years...

Surely a team that broke into the top 4 and has become the best equipped to come close over the last few seasons. It just doesn’t make sense, Bullshit Billy insults my intelligence every time he spews another line of his trademark lies.

Alan Kirwin
25   Posted 16/07/2009 at 18:27:00

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Did I miss something? with the exception of Middle Eastlands City taking the proverbial piss, none of the other leading teams has done much if any transfer activity. Oh yes, Arsenal have bought a centre-half and Villa are about to spend the Barry money on a meek footballer who scored 1 goal last season and can’t play until Xmas.

Those of you who are calling for "investment", do you mean people who will simply give free money to the club to buy & pay players?

If a club can only fill its stadium twice a season and can’t generate enough income from its fan base, why should anyone simply give the club money? Buying a shareholding doesn’t give the club any money.

Does anybody take any lessons from what has happened to Newcastle, or Leeds? Newcastle have had plenty of investment, bought loads of players, payed them loads of money, set their sights really high, and got relegated.

Sunderland had plenty of investment, spent loads of money on players, paid them a lot of money and...almost got relegated.

Aston Villa are celebrated by some fans on here for their investment & chairman. Hmm. Did I miss something again? did they not finish below us in each of the past 3 seasons?

Some have even mentioned Southampton on here. As if the purchase of a third division club from administrators for £10m has some relevance to Everton.

What is it that we are supposed to be achieving that we’re not achieving?

We have the 10th highest average gate. 10th! not 3rd or 4th but 10th. We have one of the very lowest average gate v capacity figures in the EPL. We charge way less than London clubs for tickets because we have to. We also have a ground that is worth a fraction of even smaller London clubs like West Ham & Fulham because it’s in Walton, not overlooking the Thames. Thus our value, or borrowing capacity, suffers by comparison.

Truth is, even when we won the league in the 80’s our attendances were way off capacity. Between 1985-87, our most successful league period ever, we averaged 32,000, in 1984 it was only 19,000 and by 1993 (Premiership) we had dropped again to 19,000.

So I’m curious. I don’t blame fans for wanting the best for their club. Of course we do. But what exactly is the best for Everton? Take a detached view, we are a club embedded in a tight working class area of a relatively small and relatively unprosperous English city. We have the 10th highest gate in the league but are finishing 5th and now giving "bigger" teams a serious run for their money. We have a successful and widely lauded youth set up and an admirable reputation for developing players from lower divisions. Most observers think we over-achieve.

A decade ago, pre Kenwright, we were regularly skirting with relegation and venerable no-hopers. You could say that all he’s done is bring in Moyes and sat back for the ride. Or you could say he showed great foresight and judgement in choosing a hungry young manager rather than an old fart. Hindsight is cheap. You could also say that he should have sacked Moyes at the end of 02/03 when we finished 1 place and 1 point from relegation after the worst run in our history. Or praise him for looking beyond that reality and sticking with his manager.

Then you might wonder why Kenwright didn’t sack Moyes at the start of 04/05 when we lost 7 of our first 8 league games, scored just 1 goal (a smash & grab), played shite and went out of 2 cups before the end of August. Or you might again decide that Kenwright showed vision and good sense in sticking with his manager because he had confidence in the outcome (and has been proved right).

Seems to me we have done rather well in the past 10 years. That’s a relative assessment based on what I think we have a reasonable right to expect. If we were averaging 35,000 but the stadium was more or less full each game and there was a large waiting list and membership then, sure, we’d have something to really whinge about because we’d be doing our bit and getting nothing back.

Truth is, these days we are medium sized, not a big club. Despite this, many fans have somehow come to expect XL results and investment. Why?

I think it would be great if we somehow underwent a rights issue and released perhaps £100m to put towards a stadium, players etc. But i suspect the reason that hasn’t happened is precisely for the reasons I list above. However much you might adore Everton Football Club, on paper our occasionally glorious history means sod all.

What stands out is:
- A club doing incredibly well in its domestic league. Better than anyone can reasonably expect.
- Despite this, a club with one of the lowest attendance to capacity ratios in the league
- A stadium engulfed in a tight working class and very low value area.
- A crumbling old edifice of a stadium and requiring major redevelopment at huge cost.
- A club with a turnover that is well below almost all its main competitors.
- A club that is highly geared (debt).

What’s my solution?

I am happy with things as they are with two exceptions. Firstly the stadium. I want a joint stadium for unarguable financial reasons and for prestige. Secondly ownership. I want to see a club membership concept and that, I believe, will be the acid test of just how big a club we really are. Kenwright is a good guy who has done it all by the heart. But it seems to me that when you do it by the head and look at Everton, what an objective investor sees is not what an Evertonian sees. That might explain why there was a queue of 1 to by the club from Johnson in the first place.

Does that make me a Kenwright apologist, a realist, or just an idealist?
Karl Parsons
26   Posted 16/07/2009 at 19:06:45

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Better the devil you know!
Nathan Ward
27   Posted 16/07/2009 at 19:00:03

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Alan - very honest assesment of our club.

We all wear our blue-tinted goggles to love the club but it is true we ain’t as big as we think we are.
Michael Evans
28   Posted 16/07/2009 at 19:29:05

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Alan Kirwin — thank you for so eloquently giving that reality check.

I think our hearts rule out head when it comes to Everton. It appears that the thinking is that BK is PERSONALLY stopping some kindly multi-billionaire lifelong Everton fan GIVING the club the money it needs to redevelop Goodison and allow DM to shop at Harrods for players rather than the pound shop.

When you look at it like that then all the abuse the man gets on TW appears justified.


However, in the cold, analytical world of finance where investors are looking for return on their money the situation then changes from black and white to grey.

I guess the question is, if you had no emotional attachment to the club — would you invest in Everton?
Jay Harris
29   Posted 16/07/2009 at 20:29:14

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To me, this post has nothing to do with Everton’s success on the pitch, for which Moyes should be congratulated. It has far more to do with the bullshit that emanates from the corridors of the powers that be.

Anyone who claims to be "looking for investment 24/7" for over 8 years and then claims there are no investors interested is either a buffoon or a liar or both.

Anyone who claims to have the interests of the small shareholders by rejecting rich investors who "might" force the small shareholder to sell less than 12 months after changing the Articles of Association to "gag" the small shareholders from objecting to DK is also full of bullshit.

Nobody is taking the credit away from Kenwright for the man who stood behind Moyes when others might not but that does not make him Chairman of the decade.

What gripes me and others is the constant stream of bullshit. But it is not reserved only for the supporters, no doubt Earl, Green and Paul Gregg have had it too.

One question I have never had answered is where the £20 million came from to buy Johnson out as Kenwright only had 1 million of it and to the best of my knowledge Gregg only put 8 million up. I have long held the theory which cannot be proven that some of that money came out of the club. What is certain is that it did not come out of Kenwright’s pockets because he didn't have it.

As previous posters have said, if he cared about the club that much he would sell up to somebody more able (not necessarily richer) for a small premium.

However, as with other matters at the club, HE is not dealing with the sale — Earl and Green are.
Chad Schofield
30   Posted 16/07/2009 at 20:57:08

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As utterly depressing and damming Alan Kirwin’s post is I still think Steve Guy’s second post was pretty much there. It’s not personal against Kenwright, and when you hear him he’s often engaging and sounds passionate... but there usually follows some shit which doesn’t add up. I’m not sure if it does all point to Earl and Green being the X-Files’ Cancer Man.

All I know is that I’m going to go and listen to Radiohead to cheer myself up.

Tom Fearon
31   Posted 16/07/2009 at 21:24:31

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Thank you Alan Kirwin for an intelligently argued post. You have outlined many of the problems facing any potential investors in a cool and rational manner.

However, while I like the club membership concept, is the shared stadium you suggest even a remote possibility? As we know many oppose it on emotional grounds, and there is nothing wrong with emotion here. Moreover, a state-of-the-art shared ground may be more expensive than DK.

Stew Marsland
32   Posted 16/07/2009 at 21:23:35

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Alan Kirwin, absoloutely fantastic observations — so true ,we have very little in the way of assets, that is why we have no alternative but to move grounds, it is the only way we will get some investment.

No-one will pay to rebuild Goodison, whatever you think, it means nothing to an investor, all the memories etc mean precisely nowt to someone coming in. What someone will see is parts of the ground dating back to 1932 and virtually unchanged today! (Bullens Rd and Gwladys St).

And before anyone says we may not own the new ground, it is an asset in that a new owner does not have to finance a building of a new one!

I think we all need a reality check because we are not as big as we like to think. I live slightly outside Merseyside and I can tell you we are nothing much in South Cheshire compared to the sky four.

As for bullshitter Billy, the man is a complete con artist who has consistently lied to hold on to the club from what I have heard. I have no concrete proof but believe that both Wyness and Birch left because buyers were found and BK wanted nothing to do with them. If Notts County can be bought, someone tell how they can be more attractive to someone with money than us, it just does not make sense.

Frank Nolan
33   Posted 16/07/2009 at 21:15:12

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Excellent piece by Alan Kirwin, couldn’t have put it better myself. The anti BK bile on here is distressing. Here we are under DM (appointed by BK and supported by him every inch of the way) putting together the best squad of players we’ve had for 20 years.

The club is highly respected throughout the football world, team morale is second to none, fans are excited about the future. So what are the BK knockers on about? Are they KEIOC in disguise?

I think we should stay in the city, but I’m not so paranoid that I’ll let this affect my view of BK, a true Blue who I’d have any day even if you offered me millions from an Arab or a Yank.

Gavin Ramejkis
34   Posted 16/07/2009 at 21:50:40

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Alan Kirwin, one strong and undeniable item within your verbose response is the share rights issue. I have myself questioned this on a number of occasions in the past, it was hinted many years ago by BK but then disappeared like so many other good ideas. At the time Spurs had a share rights issue which raised a significant wad of cash for team building.

Back then it just disappeared into the ether at Goodison Park but during the recent DK hearings in black and white is the acknowledgement that not one of the majority shareholders is willing to sell or dilute their shareholdings in the club. A nuance maybe but yet another failing by BK and his fellow board members and another opportunity missed, one of which the level of dilution itself would be controlled by the shareholders but as it turns out the only debt is levied against the club itself and not their own personal investment in their shares thus the club have no assets beyond the players’ registrations.

I’m also very surprised that grown adults find the responses to questioning BK so distressing when his failings and lies have been documented for all to see, hear and read. No one is perfect but to use the idiom "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" when BK repeats his lies, you should question yourself as to how many times you let him fool you.

Tony Marsh
35   Posted 16/07/2009 at 21:44:17

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Alan Kirwin, I won't say you're totally wrong in your summing up of our club, city, attendance figures etc but you use the Liverpool is an unprosperous city to back up your arguement. Please tell me, Alan, have you ever been to Sunderland and Middlesboro? Absolute shitholes with poverty equivalent to pre 1990s Romania.

Alan, how come then in the past few years both Roker Park and Ayresome Park were knocked down and built brand new modern stadiums?

Liverpool is one of the world's most instantly recogonised and famous cities. If clubs in dump grounds in the backwaters of NE England can get it together, surely what you say is a load of shite.

Granted we are not in London but even a Mickey Mouse yo-yo club in a grim Midlands ghetto, Wolverhampton Wanderers have a state-of-the-art ground. In fact, the list is fucking endless mate. From the far north to the far south west — virtually every poxy club in the land has got a new ground.

FFS, even a poor run-down dole-queue town called Bolton built the Greybok.

So Alan, how come all these clubs in places far worse off economically than Liverpool seemed to have managed what Kenwright has failed to do? Let's face it — Kenwright has been at this club in one form or another for an ice age now. It's about time the twat woke up to what's required.
Frank Nolan
36   Posted 16/07/2009 at 22:08:22

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Tony Marsh, do us all a favour and go away.

As for Gavin, I have wasted 10 minutes of my life trying to get the point of your post and have given up. >Are you saying that BK is a liar? How about putting this in print to the Liverpool Echo? From what I hear, solicitors are charging £300 an hour to defend this sort of thing.
Tom Blake
37   Posted 16/07/2009 at 22:59:34

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Gavin Ramejkis, maybe I’m wrong but the reason the rights issue was discarded was becasue you have to have somebody who can underwrite the shares that are not bought. Rangers did it a few years ago but they had someone on the board who would buy any remaining shares.

I understand why this post has come up on the site but it is very depressing. Though I must say I’m used it. After every shareholders meeting the same thing happens.

A few things to mention about all of these takeovers that are being compared to BK failure to find investment.

1. Portsmouth’s takeover doesn't look like it's going through. The guy is dragging his feet. Their takeover is so good they have sold Glen Johnson, Crouch and are letting players leave on free transfers to balance their books. Oh and Portsmouth had a takeover not so long ago. Gaydamak hasn’t done that well really, has he? An FA Cup win with an easy cup run when compared to ours last season.

2. Stop comparing teams like Notts County and Southampton to us. They are clubs who are far from us in terms of reputation and value.

3. People have mentioned how Newcastle have had lots of enquiries. Mike Ashley has cleared their debt and they have one of the best stadiums in the country. £100 million is a good price for Newcastle. Not only that but they also have very good merchandise sales which brings even more money.

4. People have already posted about the stadium. Nobody will buy our club unless they know what is going to happen with DK. DK for an investor is a sound financial deal. It makes sense to wait. The most sound financial deal for me is a joint stadium. With help from Liverpool City Council and the Northwest Development Agency money could be raised through private investment who just want a share in the ground and the surrounding areas. Maybe hotels, shopping centres etc and not the clubs. When the future of our club is at stake then the arguement of what colour would the seats be is ridiculous.

5. Not so long ago a few fans from many different clubs voiced their disgust at how Chelski bought their titles. Now that Man City are throwing money around and attracting mercenaries like Barry, Robinho, Tevez etc it has become OK to do that. Let them throw money around and waste it. They will attract players who want the money and not want to play for the club. Stephen Ireland is their best player. He has fight and plays for the club.

Someone please show me where to find the so called documented lies that have come from BK. I think this perception of BK comes from the fact that Trevor Birch and Keith Wyness left and did not comment on their resignations and neither did the club. I’m guessing that in their severance packages they probably also had gagging orders put on them. This to me is strange and I would like the club to be more transparent when it comes to issues like this. I wasn’t gutted to see either leave. Birch helped Leeds self destruct and Wyness was a bully who didn’t care about the fans.

As fans what we want is somebody who will plough money into the team and infastructure. Somebody who won’t interfere with the team. Somebody who is passionate and wants to see our club win trophies. Football is not for investors. The returns on football clubs are poor. BK has even remortgaged his house to come up with money to buy out Agent Johnson. So if they can’t get a return they won’t invest. It is that simple. Unless from nowhere a billionaire blue who has loved EFC ever since he was 2 years old, decides to save his beloved blues from the evil BK, it will remain the same.

To sum up, guys, get behind the team. We had a great season last season considering we lost the Yak, Arteta and every other god damn striker. This season could be just as good but only if fans turn up on matchday and instead of stupid banners that kopites like doing, they actually cheer on the team. COYB
Sean McKenna
38   Posted 17/07/2009 at 00:08:40

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Tony Marsh, spot on mate. Are we that ugly as a club that nobody will take us on? Bolton, Middlesbrough etc etc. Please don’t tell me that we are less attractive then them? Didn’t randy Lerner want to buy us before he went to Villa? Or maybe he wasn’t suitable? Looks like he is doing a good job for them.

Now if I was top of the tree in my workplace and one of my highest priorities was to get an investor in, and I didn’t manage to do that in 8 years, guess what — I’d be fired!!!!! No not Blue Bill... all I want is the truth; if we are broke fine, if we are in that bad of shape why even look for investment? I’m a Blue, Bill is a Blue; be honest Bill once and you can turn things around.

Alan Kirwin
39   Posted 17/07/2009 at 01:03:13

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Roy Jones - I see, so having just sacked Walter Smith because we were crap, Kenwright just asked Walter what to do and then did what Walter Smith suggested as his replacement. Of course, makes sense.

Enjoy shouting at Bill Kenwright. So much to shout about, us having just come 5th again, cup final, great squad etc. How much worse can it get? I ask myself.

I see you like the word tosser. How apt.
Alan Kirwin
40   Posted 17/07/2009 at 01:08:40

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Tony M - there’s merit in what you say about NE cities, Bolton etc. M’Boro was paid for by Steve Gibson, a local lad. Forgotten how & who funded Sunderland but I recall it was very messy and they nearly went under.

I’ve just called it how I see it. IMHO you and many like you simply have expectations way beyond our station. Sunderland get bigger crowds than we do. We fill our stadium once or twice a year. Our attendances & turnover are middle/lower table. We don’t have much going for us from an objective investment point of view. Yet we finish 5th, get to a cup final and people are still pissed off.

Hello?
David Johnson
41   Posted 17/07/2009 at 04:10:26

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Is finishing fifth what Everton used to be about Alan? Kenwright’s brainwashed some of you into thinking that's as high as we can hope for. Fuck Kenwright.
KENWRIGHT OUT!
Stewart Littler
42   Posted 17/07/2009 at 05:06:24

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Alan, summed it up very well. I don’t believe every word out of Kenwright’s mouth. I don’t suppose he gives a shit either.

Tony - good points there. I am under the impression you go all the games (from prior posts - and good on you too). Boro, Bolton, IMO are shite grounds in the arse end of nowhere with fuck all atmosphere. Add Stoke and Wigan to that list. They even forgot to build most of the top tier at the Stadium of Light, which was also out in the middle of nowhere.

And yet, without going into the alleged failings of DK, you castigate the board for trying to push it through. I don’t understand?? Doesn’t your argument kind of prove that we, as a ’poxy club’ are simply striving for the best we can afford? To attempt, in the current madness that is Premier League football, to make progress? Kind of seems like a conflicting opinion?

Dave Wilson
43   Posted 17/07/2009 at 05:55:59

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Alan Kirwin, Eloquently put... but deliberately misleading.

Only eight teams had a higher attendance than Everton last season, all of them are playing in either new stadiums or in stadiums which have benefitted from steady development.

Unlike all the other chairman, Kenwright has done nothing with Goodison Park. That's why Kirkby is even being considered, there are more obstructed views at GP than at of the other grounds put together and the days of people paying £30 to sit behind a post are over.

As for the others being cheaper, my seats at Anfield, OT, St James, SOL, Eastlands and Villa park were all cheaper than my seat at GP

Yes, we did only average just under 33,000 in 85-87, but you forgot to mention the country was in the grips of recession and we were pissing all over 90 other clubs in the league at the time.

This year's FA Cup Final demonstrated the size of Everton's support, few teams in the world can boast that they could fill a stadium 200 miles from their base.

And can you please stop talking about Leeds and Newcastle as if investment was the root of their problems. Bad management is the cause of their problems; investment can only ever be bad when managed badly, but then you already know that don't you?
You're not an apologist, or a realist... you're just wrong. Your ability to string a few sentences together can't mask that.

Derek Thomas
44   Posted 17/07/2009 at 06:16:06

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Cake and eat it, that's what Bill wants. His own words: "Looking for INVESTMENT 24/7" — NOT A BUYOUT! It is his train set and any subsequent debt / expenditure has been placed on the Club, like all the rest of the so-called benefactors.

Tony, I think the only investment he put in was to mortgage his house to fund the buyout of Agent Johnson... and that was 2 booms ago, well covered.

I’m quite happy with Kenwright out, but who in is the hard part...
Gavin Ramejkis
45   Posted 17/07/2009 at 07:33:41

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Frank Nolan, you really need to thank the doctors for pulling you out of your coma for the last decade:

Fortress Sports Fund - "the money will be in the bank in the morning"

"Rooney won't be sold for £50m"

"We have the £30m ringfenced for the Kings Dock project"

"Watch this space"

That’s just four and I’m sure if you bothered to read countless articles on this site alone you’ll find lots more, have yourself a whip round and go for it £300 a pop and I’d wipe the fucking floor proving BK LIES, LIES, LIES and oh more LIES.
Michael Brien
46   Posted 17/07/2009 at 07:09:26

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Steve Guy — my reference to Wembley was regarding early last season and indeed last summer when it seemed that TW was full of posts slagging off Kenwright/Moyes/The board/CEO and pouring forth doom and gloom. I just wondered how many who were slagging eveybody off had changed their tune later in the season.

Roy Jones — the fact that you have to resort to abuse shows just how poor your argument is.

I would agree with Alan Kirwin in what he has said, particurlarly the comparisons with some of the other clubs. Aston Villa have been our closest rivals for 5th in the last couple of seasons. Yet look at how they are spending money this summer — yes, they have signed Downing, but when is he going to be ready to play? Gareth Barry, their captain and "talisman" as the media like to put it, nearly left last summer and has gone to Man City. Ashley Young — one of Martin O’Neil’s main signings — could also be on his way.

Let’s look at our very dear neighbours: Mascherano and Alsonso could well be on their way. As I pointed out before Man Utd look to have completed their summer transfer forays, having spent about a quarter of the money they received for Ronaldo. Arsenal — have they splashed out any cash recently? Chelsea? The only ones it would seem are Man City, they had Man Utd worried because they were reported to be after Gibson — but it turns out they were after Mel Gibson.

So it would seem we are not the only ones being a bit cagey at spending money. Perhaps we should remember the examples of Newcastle United and Leeds United — they certainly made use of the cheque book, spending millions on many players. It didn’t do them much good did it.

Kenwright is not perfect, not by a long way. But I believe that he has the best interests of Everton at heart — do you think the people running Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City have the bests interests of those clubs as their main driving force?

It’s one thing to criticise — it’s another to vilify someone. Kenwright played a big part in getting shut of Peter Johnson and his cronies — some people would do well to remember that. Back in 1993 when Kenwright was seeking to become the owner/majority shareholder, he was prepared to stand aside because Johnson had more finance (or so everyone thought) and it looked to be the best deal for Everton. Perhapos having been fooled once, Kenwright doesn’t want to be fooled again by someone making the same promises that Agent Johnson made.

Have we forgotten that it was Johnson who sanctioned the sale of Duncan Ferguson to Newcastle United? It was Johnson who promised transfer funds to Walter Smith that suddenly dried up after Bakayoko was signed. A lot of the criticism given to Kenwright is stuff that Johnson is guilty of, but has got away with.

Dave Wilson - you mentioned the lack of investment in Goodison. Kenwright has put more investment into Goodison than many of his predecessors. Let’s see, before the Park Stand we had the blocking off of the terracing under the old Park End Stand in 1979 and a new roof over the Gwladys Street Stand in 1987. Hardly a case of the previous Chairman "busting a gut" is it?

Personally, I would love it if Paul McCartney bought us. He’s got plenty of money... however, he isn’t going to do that. Some have suggested that he is an Evertonian — if he is, I am sure that he would be wary of alienating the Red side by coming out and declaring his footballing allegiance.

Still two 5th place finishes, a Cup Final and a Semi Final in the last two seasons... we can’t complain, can we!!!???

Michael Brien
47   Posted 17/07/2009 at 07:59:25

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Gavin — re your rather personal references to someone who disagreed with you as needing to come out of a coma and the other abusive comments, perhaps anger management would be a good choice. But I would advise not going on the same course as Joey Barton!!!!

Lighten up, Gavin — woke up to see the news this morning and hear of 9 killed in bomb blast in the Far East. 8 troops killed last week — let’s put things into perspective please.

Alan Williams
48   Posted 17/07/2009 at 07:45:06

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Boring, boring, boring... Crap article, predictable responses. I have taken a break from this site because it is filled with this BS all the time. Nobody lives in the real world when it comes to EFC and you all think we are a big attractive club for a rich buyer, wake up! we are not a good investment!!!

GP is a dump that can’t generate sufficient income to attract big name players or even investors. We have far too many junior season tickets (mostly used by adults) and the ticket prices are one of the lowest in the PL, merchandise returns are below average and corporate facilities and more suited to the Championship!!

Either way, whoever looks in to EFC has to clear the debit, pay for the shares, re-build GP or move to a new Stadium so to come on to a level playing field of Man City, Aston Villa & Spurs (this is our level), you will need around £200/350 million depending on whether you chose Kirkby or go for a complete re-build. That is why EFC is not an attractive acquisition; selling to a party or even consortium that doesn’t have this type investment means you just change the Chairman but keep the same problems.

We all love EFC and take great pride when we see the Royal Blue jersey but as a business model it's second-rate... As a team to support, it's first class and there lies the problem; solve that conundrum, then we can end this debate and move on as one. Until then, it’s all irrelevant. COYB

Paul Gladwell
49   Posted 17/07/2009 at 09:22:06

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Great Evertonian or not, he is a compulsive liar and a very patronising man too, he treats us like dickheads.I have said it before, if Kirkby goes tits up, watch how quickly he sells us then. And if he has not had any offers, then who’s fault is that when it seems every club in the top flight has?

David Moyes has saved this man’s bacon for years, but you can bet if something does not give soon, Moyes will be gone — together with our most important players.

Nick Thomas
50   Posted 17/07/2009 at 10:02:55

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Billy Billy liar your pants are on fire!! — Bill Kenwright has just been very very lucky to have a great manager, wheeler dealer, loyal sidekick in Moyes. We know how close he has gone to losing Moyes, with his empty promises and downright lies.

We have a chairmen who is a gatekeeper, he lets no-one in, and no-one out; he throws potential investments in the bin. If he wasnt such a lovely guy, and a True Blue Evertonian (notice the irony!!), you’d think of him in terms of the mad dictator — paranoid, egocentric, clueless, but using his paranoia to keep the masses at bay — in order to maintain his own selfish, autocratic control.

God forbid if (and I suspect very soon, when) we lose Moyes, we are doomed. Why should a manager keep going up with his begging bowl, every summer, asking, Please, Sir, can I have some more?" — to be battered to the ground. when all around him, Villa, Chelski, Fulham, Man City, Sunderland, Tottenham, (Newcastle and Middlesbrough), before it all went tits up West Ham, Notts county, Portsmouth, Southampton — and on and on and on — have found investors!!

I’m not saying all these these clubs have made a success of the investment but for feck’s sake, don’t patronise me by telling me we’re less of a viable business option than the above. I like you as a guy, Bill, but you have got to get on your bike now, before the whole house of cards falls. If you love Everton so much, you wouldn't want that on your conscience... would you!?!

Ciarán McGlone
51   Posted 17/07/2009 at 10:28:45

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Oh my god! How much longer can the appointment of Moyes be dragged out as the zenith of Kenwright's tenure? How many times can the actions of the two be conflated in order to confuse the issue?

What some people don’t seem to be able to grasp, despite their long-winded but vacuous posts, is the simple fact that Moyes could win this fucking league with a moderate amouth of cash. It seems that people would rather have the Kenwright fella than success at the club.

Because a lot of these pro-Kenwright posts actually sound like they’d rather have him here than the moderate investment that Moyes needs — and that he’ll eventually get... probaly at another club!

A case of priorities being well out of order!!!!!
Michael Brien
52   Posted 17/07/2009 at 11:08:12

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Ciaran - what do you define as a moderate amount of cash ? An average Premier Leage player can now cost £20M. Didn’t Man City pay about that of Santa Cruz, a couple of years after he cost Blackburn about £3M? What constitutes a good transfer budget £25M? £30M or £40M? Let's see how Man City do this season — spending money doesn’t always lead to loads of trophies... ask any Newcastle United supporter!!!
Terry Maddock
53   Posted 17/07/2009 at 11:11:10

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Ciarán, a moderate amount of cash? Is that £30-50 million? Or would that be the £250M that Rafa has had (but still says he can't compete)?

The facts are only three teams have won the Premier League in the last 10 years — and only 5 since 1991, Blackburn and Leeds having had huge cash injections (by the standards of the times). So, in reality, it's a simple fact that Everton have no hope at all of winning the Premier League... 150/1 with most firms... too short a price in reality.We are a mid-table mid-size club punching above its weight.

As for the constant accusations levelled at BK, as I have mentioned before, Fortress Sports Fund — I believe the money was promised to us but was never given. Bill just blurted it out like an excited fan before the money was in the bag.

"The £30 mill is ringfenced..." well it probably was until the conditions that came with it were revealed.

"I wouldn't sell Rooney for £50 mill..." If he added, "unless of course his agent engineers a move whilst trying to drag the manager's name through the mud, in which case we will allow the British transfer record to be broken."

And as for "watch this space"... is that a lie? Gavin, you may well lose more than your £300 if you tried that in court...

On the flip side, they may well have all been total fabrication, deliberately misleading statements. But until it's proven... well, I'm going for my original hypophesis.

So, to sum up, I more or less agree with most of what Alan Kirwin says... mainly because I like to consider all the facts before I slaughter somebody. And also because, as a mid-sized team that has been around for 131 years but has only won the league 9 times, our overall history shows that 5th is actually really quite good.

Our overall income / average gate / wages paid / debt etc — compared to the rest of the non top 4 shows we should be finishing about 10th. But, with a good manager and a supportive chairman, we are doing better than can be realistically expected.

I suppose that does come down to what your expectations are... and how you manage them. Tony Marsh expects us to get relegated every season (or so it appears to me) and is then hugely disappointed that we only finish 5th.

Gavin states that "It’s utter bullshit to think that not one single investor has had a look at Everton with all the buyers that have come and gone over the last 5-6 years." but still cant come up with one single shred of evidence that anybody has shown any interest in buying or even investing in us... it's simply his opinion.

As mentioned many many times before, we have a debt of what? — £60 - 100 mill; we have the 9th (i just checked this one) highest average attendance; we have the oldest ground in the Premier League, by that I mean its actually still more or less the same as when finished in the 1890s, we share our city with, for now, the most successful club in the English game's history... We are not (as is) a GOOD INVESTMENT.

Buying the shares? = £100 mill
Pay off the Debt? = £100 mill
invest in new ground/rebuild GP
=£300 mil
Invest in squad =£80 mill (4 players of same class ./worth as Arteta)

So that's nearly £600 mill if you want to have a crack at top 4. Does anybody see this as a good investment? With Man City, a rich arab comes along, you know, takes a break from a bit of torture etc.. and buys the club from that nice upstanding Thai gentleman for about £150 mill... No debt, No stadium to buy...

He then decides he wants the best squad in the world. So he goes out and buys 20 players all at £20 mill each. So he gets all that for £550 mill — £50 mill less than Everton. And do any of you see Man City as a good investment? No!!! So how in the world are we???

Gavin Ramejkis
54   Posted 17/07/2009 at 11:56:32

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Michael, I have been working for the MoD for the best part of three years and met at least 2-3 dozen young lads and men who have come back from Iraq and Afghanstan in bags and many more now devoid of limbs, I’m painfully aware of that side of life but my release mechanism is Everton FC and the charlatan has been aboard for years if you include his tenure on Agent Johnson’s board as a yes man and his subsequent take over. To make rash claims that the man hasn’t lied is an insult to my intelligence as I can name many and point you to the verbatim quotes from him.

I’ve read many responses relating to Lerner closing his chequebook or Gadyamak failing and find those two alone to be quite amusing when you could, with the least amount of research and common sense, attribute that to the global recession and the impact it has had on their personal wealth and businesses they had/have outside of owning an EPL side. The RS are selling players as they have to in order to pay RBS; Man Utd — despite getting to the CL final and winning the World Club Championship — made a loss so their money men have simply tightened the strings.

Making assumptions that blowing large swathes of cash is what fans are clamouring for in the style of Leeds or Newcastle is way off the mark. Giving a shrewd manager a chance to compete after he proves he can meld a good team but requires a small number of quality (not solid platinum) players to have a reasonable shot at fourth place is a more reasonable case, yet BK still won't stand aside and sell up (or seek his mythical investor, which is a whole world away from selling the club, even if it is semantics).

Chad Schofield
55   Posted 17/07/2009 at 10:51:07

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I love the people who are writing Villa off because they’ve not been free spending since Barry left.

I’ve tried digesting the abuse that the Alan’s have scolded over the club that we all love, and I’ve re-read Michael Brein’s posts which lack background knowledgeable — but feature apostrophes and random capital letters.

Report abuse has now returned, but it seems that in every post there are offensive comments, be it directed at individuals posting on here, people of a certain mindset (including Evertonians as a whole), Bill himself, or other clubs.

Fundamentally we have and continue to be lied at by Kenwright. We’ve been treading water for years, just seemingly doing enough off the field to stave off despair. Last gasp scraped together transfer deals (admittedly some impressive) after what many suspect have been phantom bids comprising of a personal back rub for Bill's 3,600 monthly payments.

We get soft soundbites at best and what on the face of it seem like outright lies. It would be easy to say that Bill hides behind Moyes’s magic tricks, but he doesn’t even have to as people will simply say, "Who would you rather have?" Personally, Lerner, but he’s at the team we should be happy to be alongside if we know our station. I wonder though whether he would have have looked after the other shareholders’ needs sufficiently though — or at least those with enough of a stakeholding to be allowed actually to have any influence.

To those saying that they would have run to the press to force the sale — would you? You’d want a public slanging match where you offend the people you’re buying off (so perhaps having to pay more)? You’d like it to be made public that a man who openly admits he is too poor to run the club doesn’t think you’re rich enough or the right calibre?

What if your cunning plan backfires... fans don’t take to the streets demanding that you are given the opportunity to make an investment in something which you have no current links to — many of the fans actually seem to love Kenwright because of his Blue herritage. He’s been there for years, even in the Johnson years. He’s seemingly deceitfully removed his great friend Gregg from power using the rues of The Fictitious Sports Fund — if he’s prepared to do that then what would he stoop to keep you from getting your mits on his trainset?

Maybe I’m trivialising what would happen. I mean I’ve never be involved in the multi-million pound buyout of, well, anything. I would expect that there is quite a process before the men actually meet, if they ever actually do in person to shake on the deal. Experts from either side valuing and negotiating... and that’s after all the phone calls. Have we ever even got to that stage? Did Trembling and Wyness really get people only to be snubbed by Blue Bill? Unless you’re trusted confidants of any of these men then I’m afraid you’re unlikely to know for sure.

I just don’t see how Everton are such an unattractive option — even with removing the blue tinted specs. Yes, we need considerably investment... but then that would surely produce fantastic rewards that are not available through similar investments. What is it that those "property developer" shows always go on about?

Will the EPL combust... no, it would be similar to the banks when you think about it. I don’t know how things will get sorted with steadily decreasing advertising revenues, but would it be beneficial to see clubs being sued for breach of contract by players, huge numbers of teams sinking because of administration. And don’t even start on how we’d be OK, because our debt is "sustainable"!!!! Everton with our history and potential are attractive, even in these uncertain times — but perhaps the price that is being asked is too high.

The sooner this shit with DK gets decided, the sooner we can move on. I’m thoroughly against it and the lies which were told to get a mandate — but it seems like until it has been resolved we remain treading water. Whether Earl and Green will vanish if it’s not given the green light or indeed emerge to the fore if it is remains to be seen. But if you haven’t been to The Riverside in Middlesbrough, then it might be worth paying it a visit — it’s souless and horrible.

So sorry if you found any of this offensive, well that’s if you’re still awake.

Alan Kirwin
56   Posted 17/07/2009 at 12:49:22

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I see. So if you don’t hate someone or something then, by perverse logic, you must obviously love them/it.

And I thought George Bush had a monopoly on playground logic. To all Georges everywhere, I salute your ignorance.

Now, can we get back to grown up discourse. Preferably with some punctuation to aid the asthmatic.
Jon Gorman
57   Posted 17/07/2009 at 12:41:57

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I’m beginning to think that I’m the only one who genuinely believes that BK is open to offers for the club. I just don’t think that a suitable offer has been on the table yet. People cite the purchases of Manchester City, Portsmouth, Sunderland and Villa as examples of his incompetence but I disagree. Each of the aforementioned clubs were more attractive to investors than EFC:

a) Man City and Sunderland have new stadiums and excellent facilities

b) Pompey have an excellent coastal location and port (I believe the owner required this for his yacht)

c) Villa have a well maintained and sufficiently large stadium in the second city

BK seems to be trying to rectify this by building Finch Farm and pushing forward with (albeit controversial) plans for a new stadium.
In addition to this he has repeatedly smashed the transfer record and nobody can deny that during his tenure the state of affairs off the pitch has improved drastically. I agree that he has a habit of coining cringe worthy sound bites (such as last summer’s ‘watch this space’) but that’s just his type of personality. Personally I wouldn’t let him near the press without a script, but I still appreciate all he has done for this club.
Lee Jamieson
58   Posted 17/07/2009 at 10:25:43

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Alan Williams thank god! At last someone with a realistic outlook. I was sickened by the vile ramblings on this site last summer as the transfer window opened and was drawing to a close. I read one crap article after another about how Bill Kenwright was the Anti Christ and his mission was to destroy Everton FC. Here we are one season later having only just put the Wembley flags away and it is starting all over again! Alan you are right EFC is not a good investment at the moment, however I believe in time it may be.

When Kenwright took over we had a rubbish squad, an old ground, an old training facility, awful marketing and we were clinging to the premiership by our fingernails.

Since he has took over progress has been slow. I think he could have dispatched Walter Smith a lot earlier and the ground fiasco has been rumbling on since 2004.

Kenwright has made progress with the training ground. Finch Farm is a state-of-the-art training facility and one which enhances the reputation of EFC. I have been in Bellefield and have had a guided tour of Finch Farm and believe me they are light years apart.

In regard to the marketing of the club and the EFC brand I think we can all agree that in the past it has been dire. We have struck deals with the likes of JJB etc but the merchandising side of things has never really been managed.

Kenwright has made some progress in this area. EFC currently have two quality retail outlets and an online facility. The marketing is slick and at last we are able to get a kids lunchbox and some slippers with the proceeds going to the club rather than "Dodgy Eddie on a market stall in Williamson Square". I must point out that there is still a long way to go in this area but advances have been made.

I am not going to go into the ground argument but suffice to say with a new ground we would look a better investment. Plans are afoot to resolve this and it is not Kenwright's fault that DK is still waiting for a decision.

Kenwright recruited Moyes and backed him when many wanted him sacked (remember the season with the worst points tally). He has provided the cash for Moyes to buy four record transfer players and he has so far resisted selling players. I can remember Duncan Ferguson being sold from under Walter Smith (I know Kenwright was on the board but he did not have overall control) and I have seen it happen at other clubs since but so far Bill has not interfered with any players. I do not believe that any player has been bought at Everton that Moyes did not want again unlike other clubs.

As for the suggestion that Kenwright should walk away from EFC with only the money he came in with, this is ludicrous! Who in the right mind would work tirelessly building and improving something making it worth more money only to hand it to a stranger asking only what they paid in the hope that the stranger will look after it. Whatever!!!

Why the hell shouldn’t Kenwright want to see the profit from his investment? As much as he loves EFC it is a business after all. Why shouldn’t he wait until the plans he put into place are carefully acted upon? If he walked away now the stadium may never get built, Bellefield may never get sold and a new owner may just sit on what they have bought (similar to RS owners).

So let’s look at what we could have had over the past couple of seasons. Hands up who wants an owner like Mike Ashley, loads of money, loves Newcastle United but not the sense he was born with? Ashley has taken Newcastle from Uefa Cup football to the Championship and made them the laughing stock of world football. Who wants the yanks from the RS, or those who are stripping the assets away from Portsmouth at the moment, or the fools that destroyed Southampton, how about the chairman of West Ham, we could get the old Leeds directors in they are out of work.

No I didn’t think so, so let’s have a teeny tiny bit of perspective please!!!!!! Kenwright is not perfect, he doesn’t have pots of money but I do believe he has the best interests of Everton at heart. He has a plan let’s judge him when it has been put into action. What is wrong with patient careful building?
Timmy Mongiat
59   Posted 17/07/2009 at 13:36:13

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Kenwright has given what he can to this club, he loves the club and I would rather see someone who loves the club in charge, at least that way we know that our future is secure and that when a buyer comes, it will be the right man for the job.

What amazes me is that people seem to think there’s loads of people lining up with billions to buy a football club and its Kenwright’s fault that it’s not being sold. How many do you think have the money and the desire to invest in a football club in an economic recession?

And let's look at some of the clubs that have been brought out. Look at Newcastle now, because the correct checks were not performed, because a purchase was rushed through, because it was brought by the wrong person. Or Portsmouth, who at the current rate will start the Premier League with the smallest squad we’ve ever seen compete and probably the worse. Or West Ham, who only just survived.

Even Manchester United and Liverpool, two of the biggest clubs in football history, are suffering now, Liverpool have over £400million debt, Manchester United have more, within months either of those clubs could collapse if the economy took a turn for the worse and the banks stop refinancing their loans.

Everytime I look on this site I see more stupid articles written by stupid people who are blinded by their apparent love for Everton. Trust in Kenwright, he truely loves the club and I would rather have him in charge rather the glaziers, or Gillet or Ashley or Gaydamak. He will sell the club to someone who will take us forward, to someone who will ensure we get to where we all think we should be.

Paul Gladwell
60   Posted 17/07/2009 at 13:41:20

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Jon, Pompey more attractive to buyers than us? Good God mate. Sunderland are not either and one thing people fail to mention when talking about the good assets of a club they fail to mention the manager and playing staff.

We have Arteta, Jags, Lescott, Fellaini and The Yak who are all in my eyes £15M plus players; Pompey and Sunderland do not possess one such player. Then we have Cahill, Baines, Pienaar and Rodwell who would come a couple of mill behind. To claim these offer a better buy to investors is daft unless our Chairman is quoting them a price beyond belief.

Michael Brien
61   Posted 17/07/2009 at 14:04:12

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Gavin — Everton are a release mechanism for many of us. The 1997-98 season wasn’t a very good one for Everton, but whilst going through a personal trauma at that time, I was more than grateful for the release Everton provided for me.

I can understand people disagreeing and having different opinions. Even during title-winning seasons and cup-winning seasons, no doubt Evertonians will disagree as to a turning point/best goal/most important win etc. However, I am dismayed as to the level of personal abuse that some people see fit to use when expressing their views.

Chad Scofield — I was not writing off the Villa, merely pointing out that it seems that many in the "Kenwright Out" brigade regard Villa as being certs to get 5th place or even 4th and that everything in the garden is rosy for them — investment-wise and in the transfer market. However, the reality is that they have had to sell a key player and there are reports that Ashley Young may be moving. Sometimes we forget that other clubs don’t always recruit the players they want/get to keep their most important players.

"...... and I’ve re-read Michael Brein’s posts which lack background knowledgeable - but feature apostrophes and random capital letters....." I am not sure what you are complaining about there.

Perhaps what makes some of those other clubs an attractive target for investment/buying is the fact that the likes of Sunderland and Portsmouth are one-city clubs. I didn’t say all just some of the other clubs, please note.

In the 2008-09 season, I was hoping for a double — Ireland to win the 6 Nations and Everton to win the FA Cup. Well it was close!! I watched the 6 Nations "Grand Slam" decider and remember some of the Welsh lads targeting Ronan O’Gara and giving him some of the "physical stuff". At the end of the match, though, these guys shook hands and no doubt there were one or two who were O’Gara’s teammates in the Lions squad. What’s the point? — you ask... that it’s possible to disagree/be in an opposite team/hold an opposing view and not resort to vitriolic comments/put-downs/abuse.

Nick Flack
62   Posted 17/07/2009 at 17:52:57

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Is there any room for romance in football anymore?

I’d take Kenwright and finishing 6th every season than finishing 2nd under some Thai/Russian/American money man.

If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.
Paul Gladwell
63   Posted 17/07/2009 at 19:09:26

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Nick, I wouldn’t, romance is dead in the Premier League, just ask our chairman who is sacrificing our heritage for what?

Give me second over sixth every year, at least we would not have to suffer the usual bullshit pre-season talk, which only comes out after all us dickheads have given them our early bird cash.

Robbo Colby
64   Posted 18/07/2009 at 00:12:04

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How I wish David France was a multi-billionaire. That’s all I want to say...
Chris Perry
65   Posted 17/07/2009 at 17:35:29

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To The Great Pretender — a plea. (This is really directed to Blue Bill.)

I am not going slag him, like numerous others have done. Much to the annoyance of many doom & gloomers and glass half-empty merchants, it's simply a plea to release this giant to someone who can wake it. Both you and Davey have done wonders but it's time for one of you to go... and it's you, Bill.

You claim that no-one wants to buy a club at the moment... well, tell that to Sunderland, Southampton, West Ham, Plymouth, Notts County, Portsmouth... Newcastle!

As the great fat spanish Knob from over the park at Anfield spouts, we are going to struggle this year to get top 10 if Davey does not improve the first team; Osman, Hibbert, Neville are crap get rid. Our transfer dealings are dire, unprofessional, lack structure, desire, ambition... not getting better.

We are in debt, bad debt... it's not going to get better unless we get Champions League. If we don't spend, we don't compete; if we don't try, we may as well give up.

Bill, let the club grow as it so clearly wants to... needs to... and must do. Don't just think of your own pockets! Think of us hard-done-by fans who see shite clubs splashing the cash and showing ambition.

Alan Sherrard
66   Posted 17/07/2009 at 18:12:17

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I feel the fans of this club are unfairly criticising Bill Kenwright over his leadership of the club. Alright he might blunder on sometimes about how much he wants a Billionaire to take the reigns from him. This is repeated what seems to be every time a TV camera is pointed in his direction. Nonetheless, every single person has to accept that we are back on the road to better times at Goodison Park (or whatever the new stadium will be named after).

You just have to look and remember some of the big decisions that he has made and got right, and the biggest of them all was making David Moyes our leader. I just feel too much time is wasted jumping on Blue Bill’s back, we should be all united behind him and the rest of the backroom staff.

Paul Gladwell
67   Posted 18/07/2009 at 06:48:43

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Alan, his appointment of Moyes was a great decision, although it was Walter Smith who put him on to Moyes. His decision not to sack him when under pressure a little was too; however, that is it for me, name some more and I could name a sackful of bad ones.

Moyes has saved his bacon time and time again, he has hid behind him time and time again, only popping up to say how great a manager he is in one of his Sky Sports tear-jerkers. He is a good blue and means well at times, but he is a liar to his fanbase to the point of patronising us and yet people fall for it every time.

I would not slag them if they sold Lescott and I think they will, but why come out and kid the fans? Is it just to make Lescott look the baddie if he goes? Just keep quiet, knocking back bids until City offer a fee we cannot turn down.

Norman Grimwood
68   Posted 20/07/2009 at 11:45:42

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Do you think that the problems Everton have in the transfer market could be down to the negative vibes that Bill Kenwright sends out about the club's future? He may be speaking the truth but no new player wants to hear that the best the club can hope for is fifth place in the league.

Come on Bill find a new owner but in the meantime add a little more confidence in your press statements.

Michael Brien
69   Posted 20/07/2009 at 14:55:57

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Every summer it seems we have the same doom and gloom - with the solutions usually "Kenwright Out". It seems that this is based on a lack of transfer activity/missing out on certain transfer targets.

1. If success was based entirely on transfer market activity, then the rest of the Premier League might as well write off their chances — the trophy is going to Man City!!!

2. I would guess that if you looked at the clubs that have spent the most over the last 4 or 5 seasons then Newcastle United would be up there with the "big spenders". I would also think Tottenham would also not be too far behind. How successful have these 2 big spending clubs been??

3. There are several clubs that have yet to make significant moves in the transfer market. Indeed Manchester United — the reigning Champions — have made more headline news with who they have sold rather than who they have bought.

Let’s just wait and see. A couple of examples from the very recent past. Presumably when Tim Cahill was signed in 2004 there were street parties all around Goodison to celebrate our new acquisition!! As I recall it didn’t make many headlines — but he’s certainly proved to be a great signing. Yobo and Lescott — their arrivals hardly generated mega headlines — but they have also proved to be equally fine signings. And Fellaini? He was hardly a household name, was he?

It is not about making additions to the squad that make the biggest headlines that’s really important. It’s about bringing in good players. Let’s give some credit where it’s due — Moyes has a decent record in bringing in good players — and he readily acknowledges the backing he has had from Kenwright.

Patty Beesley
70   Posted 21/07/2009 at 10:13:13

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Better the devil you know!!!
Michael Brien
71   Posted 21/07/2009 at 12:30:04

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I saw on the internet this morning that Lescott was hoping to talk to DM with a view to seeing what City have to offer. No doubt if the worst comes to the worst (from an Evertonian perspective) and Joleon heads down the East Lancs or the M62 to Man City, the knives will be out for BK and DM. After al,l didn’t they say "We don’t want to sell our best players"?I am pretty sure that they don’t — but I think there is very little that Moyes or Kenwright can do about it... the power nowadays is with the player.

Back in December 1971 — only 18 months after we had clinched the title — Everton accepted £220,000 for our Captain and star player, Alan Ball. I have read several accounts and indeed read Alan Ball’s book when he refers to the matter. Basically he told Catterick that he didn’t want to go — to which the reply was along the lines of, "Arsenal have made an offer for you, the Board have accepted it — end of story". In that case, I think it certainly was a situation where the manager and board deserved criticism.

However, as I said, the power these days is more in the favour of the player. If Joleon wants to talk to City, all Moyes and Kenwright can do is refuse him permission/talk him round. If he is not happy with this then he will put in a formal transfer request. Other than try and persuade the player that it would be better for his career to stay or offer him more money, there is very little the Everton management can do. Man City can most probably offer him twice/three times as much as Everton can.

It’s no consolation but Aston Villa couldn’t keep hold of Gareth Barry. It’s just the reality of football at the moment.

Norman Grimwood
72   Posted 21/07/2009 at 18:57:47

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I would like to clarify my earlier comment in respect to Mr Kenwright. I only said to find a new owner because he himself said that he was looking to sell as he had taken the club as far as he can. I believe and trust him when he says that he will only sell when it is good for the club and the team.

We Evertonians need to remember the position the club was in when Mr Kenwright became chairman, thanks to Johnson the Red, we were nearly a Championship team. When he realized that the then manager Walter Smith was unable to turn things around, Bill Kenwright had the courage to sack one of the most respected managers in the game. He then appointed David Moyes as manager and between them they turned matters around, albeit with the odd hic-cup or two.

Yes, Everton need to find an investor but must not go down the same road as Leeds United and we must not sell our soul to get one. The team needs only one or two ready made footballers with special talents that will complement David’s team ethics; after these two players, the only need is to increase the size of the squad. I have players in mind but I am sure that David doesn’t need any help from me.

The second reason for the need for investment is to be able to hold on to the best players in the team. Any player will have his head turned by the mega bucks being offered by the likes of City and Real Madrid and Everton need to be as able as possible to fend off any overtures for their players.

It is important for teams to be in the Champions League and enter the financial wonderland that it is, Everton are no exception to this. They are not a long way off from being a top four team and getting some new investment hopefully will take them over the final hurdle.

Hopefully Mr Moyes will be able to strengthen the team to his wishes and that Everton will have another good season.

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