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Puzzled Yet?

By Tony Marsh :  04/08/2009 :  Comments (89) :
Editor's Warning: Tony seems to have swallowed the entire bottle of his Grumpy Old Man pills today... what an astounding rant!The Editor

While some fans like Alan Kirwin tell us we expect too much from the club and the team, others like myself say we don't give the fans enough. There are some who have chucked it in all together. Put simply, they have given up. The constant flow of bullshit from the Board at Everton FC has done them in.

The first week in July, I dropped an article on here, worried about future possible transfer fuck-ups after Michael Owen went to Man Utd. I was told by some fans that the window had only been open for a few days so it was too early to be critical of our transfer policy. "Just wait until August," one said, "Moyes will bring in some quality players by then and Marsh will look silly..." Well, I am here and I am still waiting. Where the fuck are they???

Now there are many reasons for me to worry about the direction our club is heading but what really amazed me last week was the decision to yet again go and play pre-season frendlies in the United States. All the clued-up money-making football clubs, Liverpool and Man Utd to name two, were out in the Far East, playing in front of 80,000 fans. West Ham were out there and teams like Celtic and Spurs where playing at Wembley against Champions League winners Barcelona.

Where we again? Salt Lake Fucking City, Utah — that's where... in front of a few ex-pats and some pidgeons. WHY??? Did Donny Osmond invite us over?

The emerging markets of the Far East and not the USA is where it's at if you want to make money and get your face known on the global market. Rounders and Netball will always over-shadow Soccer over in the States and I see no point in being there. It's a commercial disaster.

Why not play the Thai national side in Bangkok? Chang, our club sponsor, is a Thai company, and ex-Everton legend Peter Reid runs the team. Great chance of some decent PR and a chance to get bums on seats and sell some shirts. It's yet more proof that Kenwright and his cronies haven't got a clue how to manage things at this club and it's little wonder we cant make any money outside of Sky deals and tickets.

I can't belive Moyes would sanction going to America for so little gain or publicity. I mean what did this tour actually achieve in a financial sense? Have we improved our standing in the world because of it? If no, then it was pointless.

So here we are... its 4 August — 10 days away from the big kick-off, and no sign of new palyers coming in .Lescott looks like he will be going. A meaningless tour of the USA completed and Destination Kirkby still high on the agenda... and some fans wonder why some of us worry?

The club is a shambles and with every passing week it crumbles a little more... Kenwright cannot help us at all and the biggest concern is that David — the Genius Moyesiah — Moyes is quite prepared to go along with it all.

If I was Moyes, I would've told Kenwright where to stick it by now; and if he did I would think a lot more of the guy. At least he would be showing us some balls. If there is no money and Moyes is being asked to work miracles once more, I think Davey Boy should tell the fans the truth. At least then there might be some kind of backlash against BK instead of this sickening apathy that has set in amongst a large section of the fanbase.

WAIT A MINUTE... Great news on Sky Sports: we might be getting Senderos from Arsenal!! Nice one, Davey... just what the doctor ordered — a useless Swiss lump to replace Roger... Explain this one away if it happens, Billy Bullshitter.

Only at Everton could this happen... only at Everton.

Reader Comments

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Philip Rowe
1   Posted 04/08/2009 at 12:55:39

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This time last year everyone was saying Spurs, Villa et al would be higher up the league than Everton. Was that the case? No ned to answer that. The fact it can only happen at Everton explains why Everton is different. If we wanted to support a team the same as all the rest then we are free to do so. Don’t forget, Everton chooses you! Following the cup final I was as dispondednt as the next person. To cheer up my sons I suggested that if we had won the cup the club wouldn’t give Moysie any more money for transfers because he already has a succesful team. Clutching at straws I know but now it would be easy to say he hasn’t got the money anyway, but do we really know that? Moyse, as has been said many times, will only sign players he considers will ’fit in’ and will improve the team/squad. Those who want to play for the team & not just themselves or money. Maybe he hasn’t found them yet, or he has but doesn’t want ’Arry to find out & gazump him. Money certaily makes the football world go round & there is sheer money madness at the moment. Just be patient and wait until the close of the window & then we can all rant if appropriate. We must always remember, Moyse is a Scot, he won’t pay over the odds with anyones money. COYB IMWB
Robert Keys
2   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:07:57

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I have been an avid reader of toffeeweb for many years but never before felt the urge to contribute.
I now feel compelled to say I agree 100% with Tony, for all those quick to point out that we finished fifth and reached a cup final, I would respond yes well done a good seasons work, but imagine what we might achieve if the club was being marketed and ran well!
Kunal Desai
3   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:01:39

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I think if the Man Utd job were available tommorrow Moyes would be gone in a flash, until that time does arise he may well have to stick in out in frustration for another summer or two.
For the past couple of seasons I believe Moyes has bailed Kenwright out. He’s delivered his part of the bargin - the results, top 6 finishes whereas Kenwright is just all talk. Where is the investment he’s been harping on about bringing to the club over the last decade??!! As a chairman he’s done nothing to help back Moyes to build and take the team further.
Team spirit,hard work and determination only gets you so far. There will come a time when the failings in the transfer market have an impact on where you finish, we’ve got away with this for the past few seasons but it can’t go on forever and my instincts tell me that this could possibly be the season where Moyes and Kenwright fail by dropping out of the top 6! Plenty of more finger pointing I forsee!
Mark Stone
4   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:03:16

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"The club is a shambles and with every passing week it crumbles a little more... Kenwright cannot help us at all and the biggest concern is that David — the Genius Moyesiah — Moyes is quite prepared to go along with it all."

Sorry Tony I don’t completely understand what you mean by this, can you expand a little. Do you mean Moyes should have quit?

If so I can’t agree as I’d be, being hypocritical. I usually mock the manager who spits his money and walks if the chairman won’t give him the cash he wants. It almost seems like admitting that your crap at your job and that the only way you can succeed is by splashing the cash and buying the best players (Keving Keegan etc) rather than developing the players you already have and getting the best out of them.

Whats more there could be an argument that this happenned last year ... Moyes wasn’t given the money he wanted for transfers and refused to sign a contract until he was given assurances that he would be given funds in future (speculation). That brings me to the next point:

"If I was Moyes, I would’ve told Kenwright where to stick it by now; and if he did I would think a lot more of the guy"

Because from memory this isn’t what you were saying last year when he was refusing to sign a new contract ... in fact quite the opposite. Add to that I doubt he gives a toss what you think of him.

"If there is no money and Moyes is being asked to work miracles once more, I think Davey Boy should tell the fans the truth."

I think the case might well be that there is some money available, but there are very few players who are good enough to improve the squad, that would be available within Everton’s wage structure. Bear in mind that to improve, Everton need to be finishing in the top four. Top four players want top 4 salaries and we all know the situation there .. so what’s for Moyes to tell?

Ok he could bulk up the squad by adding experienced ... but not exactly exciting ... players, but then all you get from the fans is moaning ... i.e.

"we might be getting Senderos from Arsenal!! Nice one, Davey... just what the doctor ordered — a useless Swiss lump to replace Roger"
Phil Bellis
5   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:16:17

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Tony, I can only think Moyesey goes to the US for the training and fitness facilities.
I agree Thailand would have been a good commercial choice (apart from the fact the locals couldn’t wear Chang-sponsored shirts) but, really, we should’ve gone to Australia to make full use of the most famous and well-regarded Aussie since Skippy saved Clancy (again)

I still trust Moyes to improve the squad, somehow, but, for God’s sake, fifth best team, richest league, FA Cup final, still skint!
Shameful! you couldn’t make it up
Ciarán McGlone
6   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:24:06

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While I’d love Moyes to stand up the shennanigans of the board...That particular course of action may be a double edged sword...But then again, while he sits by and accepts the poor showing we make every summer - he is complicit in their actions.

Moyes is clearly a man of integrity....but his integrity should be to the club..not Kenwright.

Difficult one.
Sean McNally
7   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:24:49

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Ive had a pop at tony in the past but I totally agree with him - 110%.

We have enough to worry about without this hangin over us.....shambles
Steve Collins
8   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:26:48

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Tony you would probably love Moyes to walk away wouldnt you seen as you hate him so much.

Why would a manager who is clearly getting what he wants (ok so hes not getting to much in terms of cash) and who is solely interested on improving his squad and league position year by year question the boards motives?

Moyes made it clear after that shambolic Asia cup that he would only do tours that were best for his team. HIS team. I reckon he doesnt care about the board and just accepts that he may aswell just keep trying until that big job comes along.

Sure if he walked now where would he go?
Colin Huntington
9   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:29:48

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The negativity here is ridiculous.

Everton go to the States because that is the best place for the team to prepare for the upcoming season. Because we don’t have the massive funds to compete, means this is that much more important than many other clubs.

Plus, the couple of hundred £ks earned by going over to Asia is a drop in the ocean compared to what City, Villa etc have at their disposal. Anyone who thinks Everton’s mere prescence in the Far East will trigger a landslide of cash is very naive.

We have not signed players yet because we do not have cash, the Sky money is needed to make any signings. Where do you expect £15m to be conjured from at this point in the year??

That said, Senderos is not who I was hoping to sign. Although happy to have him as a back-up to our current defence.
Ciarán McGlone
10   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:34:48

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"Why would a manager who is clearly getting what he wants"
-----------------------------

I obviously need to remind you what Moyes wants....’quality not quantity’ and ’signings made before pre-season starts’...

Are you suggesting his wishes have come true?
Anthony O'Sullivan
11   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:34:26

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Only Tony Marsh can blame the board for NOT buying a player he DIDN'T want.

The mind boggles.

And then asks why we went to America for our pre-season training? Maybe to train?
Phil Bellis
12   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:36:27

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Colin
The Sky payout is predetermined, guaranteed income and and could, surely, be used to obtain an advance from the financial houses
So ’waiting for the Sky money’ doesn’t wash, does it?
Steve Collins
13   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:41:28

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Ciaran,

My point is Moyes knows we are skint obviously so he doesn’t expect the board to hand him a massive amount. But when he has insisted to them he needs a few signings they have helped him out.

Ok so the negotiations of said deals were bad and we lost out. It is still apparent that they are willing to even loan cash to help him.

Kenwright has continuesly said that moyes has the full backing of the board regardless of the club's situation.

Ok yes, he wants quality but there is no doubt in my mind he knows he will never get that and doesn't expect miracles. So your point is moot.
Colin Huntington
14   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:41:53

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Phil,

I agree in theory but for whatever reason our spending is definitely linked to the receipt of the Sky cash.

Most likely is that we have already received loans based on this money. When the cash is received it repays the loan and we can then max out the facility again until next year.

A hangover from a previous year where we had the one-time benfit of double Sky cash
David Kershaw
15   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:52:40

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just a quick point ,,,we went to bangkok about 3 years ago and as anyone who went knows it wasnt a great trip ,,although the bars were pretty good .
The facilities and conditions in the USA are far superior !
Dan Brierley
16   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:41:38

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Agreed Phil, I dont buy this waiting for the Sky money at all. Its as if Bill is waiting by his doormat for a golden cheque to come through, and then legging it down to the post office, or the cheque cashing place depending on how far off the transfer deadline is.

Moyes has stated on the record, that he is looking for loans or Bosman’s due to a lack of funds. I dont know how much more explicit he can be about it. Its no big secret that the club has to find 78 million quid from somewhere.
James Marshall
17   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:49:36

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I haven’t posted on here for a few months now, but have lurked and read bits & pieces - in that time I’ve been puzzled by many peoples over the top antics (as ever) but today I feel compelled to write, just a little, in response to Mr Marsh.

Tony - never would I question your allegiance to Everton, your love of the club and everything about her, but you do continue to puzzle me.

Ref the US tour - if it was good enough for Chelsea, Inter Milan and AC Milan, why not Everton?

Ref Senderos - if he was good enough for Arsene Wenger & Arsenal, as well as Carlo Ancelloti & Milan, then why not Everton? He spent 4 years or so under Wnger so is well schooled, and even though he only played a year in Milan, it says something of his pedigree that they picked him up in the first place.

Tony, I admire your passion, I really do, but sometimes it might be better to think about the bigger picture a little more and try not to lay so much blame at peoples feet. Bill Kenwright has indeed mortgaged the club to the hilt, but thats nothing more than many other have done in modern times - football is a money game, and he’s not a money man by his own admission.

David Moyes is a young, bright, well considered, moral manager and deserves huge credit for what he’s done for us. The reason he’s the manager and you and I are not, is that he’s been bothered to stand up and be counted in his life - we’ve just supported and moaned about Everton, yet actually done.....well, nothing!

If Lescott goes to City, its not anyones fault, the blame culture that you live by is damaging and helps nobody and gives no answers. City are rich, very rich and money talks - Joleon has been here 3 years, and only cost us £5m - to me its good business.

Tony, I’m not asking you to stop your passionate writing, I just think you could do yourself a big favour in toning it back down like you did a while back, because your points, which are greatly valid, just get a bit lost in the rant style you go for.

All the best for the summer, and here’s hoping Everton have another good season.

Cheers.
Jamie Rowland
18   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:51:36

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Tony - what i got from that Article is:

EVERYTHING at Everton is currently shit. Nothing is going right and nothing is going to change without Moyes growing some balls or some divine intervention.

Seeing as, in your opinion, neither is going to happen any time soon...and that all of this only ever happens at Everton....why don’t you pack up your stuff, throw it over your shoulder and walk the mile across the park and set up camp there. You could always support a club financed by a bank through massive debt, who can’t afford to start what they finished and will quite happily join in with the persistent moaning and groaning about all things that effect them - regardless of whether it is positive or negative.

I’m going to tell you how BK is going to spin the Lescott scenario...he’s going to say...

’He’s [lescott] not actually that good compared to the figure that City have offered. We are skint and david needs some money to build a squad. While we were okay with keeping Lescott, the money will come in handy by keeping the creditors at bay and providing some funding to buy the right back, right wing and every other position that you constantly whine about’....

Or something along those lines. The fact that we could get more than we got for Rooney should be seen as a positive. The fact that we are signing Senderos (a 24 yr old, decent CB) is also a positive - after all, even if he aint up to the Jag’s standard - we do constantly complain that we have no squad...he can at least bolster the squad (can’t he?).

Tony - your rants are similar to what I hear from the local redshite armchair supporters...I wonder whether you spend too much time around those fools...
Jimmy Hacking
19   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:56:49

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If Anton Peterlin and Shokran Mustafi aren’t big name signings, I don’t know who are. Honestly, Tony; there’s just no pleasing some people.

I actually believe the sale of Lescott will be a tactical masterstroke; in his place we get an established Swiss international who once played semi-regularly for Arsenal, a team so mighty I have to turn away from their dazzling radiance lest I go blind.

And who needs Arteta when we’ve got Elm, the "new Niclas Alexandersson"?

Good times are around the corner mate, you’ll see!!! COYB!!!!
Andy Crooks
20   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:00:31

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Steve Collins,I think that by the end of last season Tony Marsh was quite generous in his praise of David Moyes.His article seems to me to be accurate and pertinent. Last season,through heroic endeavour,we got away with the dreadful pre-season.It can’t continue.Eventually we will be overtaken.The ineptitude of this summer is staggering.David Moyes needs to go public on Kenwright’s mismanagement.His loyalty is to the club and its supporters.
Alan Clarke
21   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:04:35

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I remember moaning about the fact we gave up on a tour of Oz and NZ in favour of a tour of the US. I even emailed the club about it and the fact we missed a real marketing opportunity.

Then some US fans corrected my opnion. The TV viewing figures for the MLS All-star games are huge apparently so it’s hardly a bad decision to play them even if it was in Utah.

I do think Moyes is in a difficult position in that he knows the club are skint. One thing I think he has made sure of though is that no players are sold without his consent. That’s why the club are digging their heels in on the Lescott transfer. We may be in a position where we can’t buy anyone but Moyes has always made it clear that we don’t have to sell.
Robert Davis
22   Posted 04/08/2009 at 13:47:00

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Tony what can Moyes do. You think he is a crap manager yet in the past, in response to a question I asked, you acknowledged he had no money to spend. Yet we are the fifth best in the prem. (I know we want better).
The U.S is now our regular pre season destination which has served us well. Also a market that is developing a taste for football and has huge potential, both in finance and players.
Owen? You did’nt want him anyway.
Senderos, a young, promising international. Centre backs develop later than other players; let’s give him a chance if he comes.
Can I ask did you welcome Lescott or moan that we were “shopping in the bargain basement”?
Oh and if Moyes” would’ve told Kenwright where to stick it...... I would think a lot more of the guy” No you would call him a quitter.
Rupert Sullivan
23   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:15:09

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Tony, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments concerning the marketing and management of this club - facilities are one thing, but not taking the opportunity to play in Australia is just bonkers as far as I was concerned.

With regards to DM, I think it important to consider that he is in a difficult position - if as you suggest he has not been given the money he was promised. He is a good manager but I honestly don’t believe that if he left Kenwright would walk - and therein lies the problem... Kenwright cannot do the job, pure and simple. He obviously however just doesn’t want to leave the club.
Ciarán McGlone
24   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:24:03

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My point is not ’mute’ or moot for that matter...

My point is that Moyes deserves better than the bunch of clowns he’s dealing with. And so do we.
Dan Brierley
25   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:10:17

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Andy, I think this time last year the same guy was calling for Moyes head along with a few more people on here?

I have already heard all this ’we are going backwards’ stuff over and over again. And yet the team still manages to perform over and over again. When the team stops delivering the goods, thats when I will start to lose my head. But to write them off before its even started is fucking ridiculous. Its almost like some people really are wishing it all falls to shit, so they can say ’Look, I told you so..’
Phil Bellis
26   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:40:17

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Colin/Dan...hmm, the Sky money serving the previous season’s debts
That is real worry if we are spending the TV/PL money a year in advance
A bit like Corporation Tax - due 12 months down the line; if a company has a bad year financially, it can be a crippling liability
If we ARE doing this, we simply can’t afford a poor season in terms of placing/TV appearances
Tony Marsh
27   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:44:44

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No Dan your wrong.Its been well over 2 years since I last called for Moyes to be sacked.The reason being BK told me in person he would never sack Moyes and I even posted on here later that day.To be honest I have started to give DM a little more benefit of the doubt.

I dont like every decison or action that Moyes may take during a season unlike some who think he can do no wrong but I have started to understand the conditions in which he is being asked to operate by the chairman.Something that wasnt so clear in the past.

Not once in this post have I asked for Moyes to be replaced as I dont think it would be a good idea for the club to do so.Moyes is doing a far better job know than when I wanted him out.

My complaint /worry is as above.The club being run in to the ground by an incompetent chairman and his board whilst a large section of our fans lap it up because we got to the Cup final..

Maybe we will finish in the top 5 again this season but that doesnt mean a blueprint and some solid foundations are being laid down for the next 5/10 years does it?..Well thats what really matters to me.PROGRESS long term.
Michael Brien
28   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:40:20

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Tony - it could be this time last year - you say basically the same thing nearly every time. Is there anything about Everton that you think is good at the moment?
I suppose back in 1985 ( if you were around then) you would have moaned more about losing in the Cup Final than being happy that we had won the League and the Cup Winners Cup.
1) Going to the USA - well it’s not done us any harm before has it ? And as we have the current USA goalkeeper in our team it seems as good a place as any to go on tour.
2) Meaningless Tour - yeah right so every other clubs tours are meaningful are they ? No doubt if Hull City have another battle against relegation their fans will console themselves with the glories of their meaningful summer tour to the Far East !!!!
3) Lescott going - well if Chelsea struggled to hold on to Terry the odds were stacked against us. Moyes and Bk will no doubt get flak from you - but there’s nothing anyone can do - Man City can offer him many times more than Everton can in salary and bonuses.It’s called reality Tony, sometimes it’s not what we would like it to be.
4) As regards our lack of transfer activity - Arsenal have only signed 1 player and they have made more headlines for who they have sold. That’s also the case for Moan Utd - AF has spent about 25% of the money they have received for Ronaldo.Again there have been more headlines made for who they have sold rather than who they have bought. The point I am making - it’s not only Everton that haven’t been bringing in shed loads of players. e.g Aston Villa, Liverpool as well.
5) Our transfer dealings never go smoothly - How long has Bent been in negotiations with Sunderland ?
6) If we do get Senderos - I hope that he has a great season and proves you wrong - whether or not you would be big enough to admit as much is however rather doubtful.
Tony Marsh
29   Posted 04/08/2009 at 15:11:22

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Micheal Brien I seriously doubt more than a few thousand people in the States have ever heard of Tim Howard.WHY would a football club want to take its squad to a country that shuns Football/Soccer.Its just another poor decision in a long line of others and I cant see where it will all end.

If you are saying its not worth chasing new supporters in emerging football countries such as they are in Asia because we have missed the boat and the RS have beaten us to it then we may as well all Jack it in.

One of the main reasons given by the club for the Kirkby move was to seek out new fans.Whats wrong with doing that on a global scale?

As for Lescott I wish the lad all the luck in the world if he goes.
Common sense dictates that only a fool would turn down the riches at City
and the prosperous future being at Eastlands could give them..Dont confuse my worrying with not being a realist.If Lescott goes fair enough but
I wont be taken in by Kenwright and Elstones pre season BULLSHIT
Tom Mallows
30   Posted 04/08/2009 at 15:28:31

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Moyes takes the squad to America because of the excellent training facilities there and the team spirit it induces (the first time they went there was after the disastrous 2003-04 campaign, looked what happened the following year??)
I imagine these marketing tours do more harm than good, tramping across Asia for three weeks, I doubt we have enough of a following there to make it worthwhile.
I imagine if we did play in the ’Asia Trophy’ or whatever the club (or more likely BK) would be lambasted on these pages taking part in such tournaments instead of concentrating on what matters, the new season.
Dan Brierley
31   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:50:05

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Phil, where does it state the money is paying for previous seasons debts? Or is it another conspiracy plucked from thin air, to show how terrible the board are?

Wages alone account for around 62% of our clubs turnover according to recent figures. This means a lot of money has to sit in the bank and slowly erode over the season I would guess. I dont think the players would accept ’Sorry lads, need to wait until august for the cheque to clear before we can pay you. You know how it is.’
Michael Brien
32   Posted 04/08/2009 at 15:28:26

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You made reference to Thailand - well comparing the records of the 2 countries USA and Thailand which one has the better World Cup record ? Maybe Football or soccer as they like to call it hasn’t the same financial clout as say American Football or Baseball, but the money on offer there would compare with Thailand.
I didn’t say it wasn’t worth chasing new supporters in emerging football countries. Some people regard the USA as an emerging football nation. As regards your rubbishing of America’s attitude to football, I would check some of your facts first.
Matthew Lovekin
33   Posted 04/08/2009 at 15:41:39

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Tony, what I got from your post is:

1) Everton should go to the moon next summer to try and find new supporters there, or relocate from Goodison to Bangkok for next season.

2) David Moyes should quit and Kenwright should replace him with Capello, van Gaal or Mourinho.

3) Kenwright should sign the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka, Dani Alves & Casillas to join us before the transfer window shuts this summer, but obviously not at the last minute!

Fair assumptions?
Ciarán McGlone
34   Posted 04/08/2009 at 15:46:46

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Would playing in one of these pre-season televised tournaments not bring in an extra bit of TV money?

Surely that the end game for pauper’s like us.
Steve Edwards
35   Posted 04/08/2009 at 14:53:09

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I don’t always agree with Tony and the same is true with parts of this article but one thing is for sure and that is that Tony is passionate about the club. That passion comes out in his articles and I can understand the frustration felt by him in the way Everton operate.

I also think the the warning from the Editor at the head of the article was little more than disgraceful as well as disrespectful. The man follows Everton home and away and I think he deserves a little more respect from fellow Evertonians, even if you don’t agree with him. I did not think the article was any more of a rant than many other offerings posted from other people on this site. The fact that the Editor deemed it fit for this treatment says more about him than Tony. It was of course the signal for the others who disagree with Tony to wade in with the boot.

With regard to the possibility of Senderos coming on board. On the plus side he is only 24 years old which is young for a centre back and he could well improve. The problem is we need someone who is going to come in and hit the ground running. Someone who is a solid seasoned campaigner and I don’t think Senderos is that. Squad player yes, regular not too sure. Arsenal were really struggling at the back the last couple of seasons and they let him go on loan to Milan. Milan could have kept him but didn’t want him. He comes back to Arsenal and they are in an even worse state with Torre going and they still don’t want him. What does that say and by the way he wants to leave Arsenal in order to get regular first team football not to be a bit part player. I just hope Davey knows what he is doing.
Phil Bellis
36   Posted 04/08/2009 at 15:58:25

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Dan
It was just something Colin said, above re ’Most likely is that we have already received loans based on this money’ (i.e when we get it, we won’t have much for transfers)
I admit I hadn’t thought of that possibility - I was seeing it as black and white, querying why we weren’t borrowing now to buy players instead of when the Giro arrives
Terry Maddock
37   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:14:43

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Dan... re Tony's claim..

"No Dan you're wrong. It's been well over 2 years since I last called for Moyes to be sacked."

Just loving Tony's memories of his undying support for our manager for the last two years… strange as it seems my own memories of Tony's "support" were different... and this is what I found: I found that for one month of the year, after all the trials and tribulations, Tony lost it completely and reverted to type. Maybe he was upset that his August 16th prediction was about as successful as most of his others...

"As far as I am concerned, David Moyes is now the Bic Razor of football mangers. It all looks good from a distance, nicely packaged... but once you open the wrapper, all you get is a dull lifeless experience that cuts you to ribbons once you use it." (T Marsh — Oct 2008)

"A leopard can’t change its spots and a miserable dinosuaur like Moyes can’t change his personality. If all you want from your manager and his team is a negative safety-first approach to the game with plenty of hoofball then this new deal is right up your street. On the other hand, if you are like me and many others out there who want more than this utter garbage then we are fucked. Another 5 years without a win at Anfield? I will take that bet right now." (T Marsh — Oct 2008)

"Evertonians used to sing We Shall Not Be Moved but in reality it’s DM who will not be moved. Can you really put up with five more horrible dreary years? Five more years of boom and bust Hoofball with no reward at the end of it. We deserve better than this don’t we?" (T Marsh — Oct 2008)

"This season is already over after today’s result and I don’t give a shit if anyone thinks that’s negative because it’s true. It is there for all to see if you look hard enough. Shit dour unattractive football played to the request of a manger who knows nothing more than how to wing-and-a-prayer it. If we don’t get lucky, we don’t win, and that’s the Moyes way." (Tony Marsh — 16 August 2008) Yes really, August 16th… 1 year and 12 days ago... our season was over.

The point is, Tony is welcome to his opinion... but you will find that he’s also allowed to change it. What he won't do though is admit he was wrong.... so you don't end up debating a difference of opinion, you simply end up with Tony denying he said it in the first place..

I just hope our season is over again so soon, as I really enjoyed the last one!!!

David Barks
38   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:28:37

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I’m sorry, but we played in front of a bunch of pigeons in Salt Lake City. The match was hown nationallly in prime time on ESPN, in a full stadium, and our American keeper came up trumps in the shoot out with the announcers and the fans signing his praises, even though they were going for the MLS side to win. We were featured on sports center numerous times, enjoyed great training facilities the entire trip. "Soccer" is actually continuing to grow and becoming more and more popular in the States, especially since the U.S. went to the Confederations Cup Final. Howard was talked about endlessly on all the sports shows, so I can assure you that in fact millions of Americans have heard of Tim Howard. The MLS league that is still relatively new is actually financially successful, and gaining popularity and TV ratings. The new Seattle team sells out it’s stadium for every match.
Ed Bottomley
39   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:40:49

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Well said David Barks
Gerry Quinn
40   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:39:45

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Tony,
I used to think you had some sense, but that has obviously gone!

You should get your old job back as the Entertainments Officer on the Marie Celeste!
James Boden
41   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:39:25

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I can totally see the point of this article Tony but does it really suprise you that they have failed us again?
If anything I would have been more suprised if we had actually signed a player.
If Pele, Best, Moore, Cryuff, Beckenbauer and Beckham can’t interest the yanks then what hope has Tim Howard.
1 thing I would have to disagree with on you is I wouldn’t wish Lescott luck for joining Man City who for the time being are behind us not only in league positions but also in history. If he leaves it will be pure greed so unlike you I would begrudge him moving there. Other than that another excellent but unfortunately true article from yourself.
David Barks
42   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:54:16

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James Boden,

Because Tim Howard is an American while the others you’ve mentioned were imports in the twilight of their career.
Michael Brien
43   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:49:05

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Steve Edwards - I agree that the Editor’s comments were perhaps a bit off, although maybe they were more in jest than in animosity. I have to take issue with your comments - "It was of course the signal for the others who disagree with Tony to wade in with the boot." I think that a bit strong - Tony is hardly one to mince his words is he ?. And when he makes his points it is more often a case of him "putting the boot in" rather than the other way around. He was rather dismissive of the state of football in the USA wasn’t he ?
James - I thought it rather funny the comments re Pele, Beckenbauer & Co.The difference between then and now - is that football in the USA has more homegrown players and less imported "stars". I don’t think the USA has done to badly in recent World Cups - I bet England would ve liked to have had the World Cup result the USA had against Portugal !!!
Didn’t we sign loads of players back in the summer of 1981? And wasn’t it the least known of these - Neville Southall - who was to make the greatest impact ? Signing players isn’t the answer to everything - it’s the signing of good players. There’s little point in bringing in players just for the sake of it. I would rather Moyes bide his time and get the players he wants than "panic buys". And there are several other clubs who have yet to make notable moves in the transfer market.
Michael Brien
44   Posted 04/08/2009 at 16:49:05

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Steve Edwards - I agree that the Editor’s comments were perhaps a bit off, although maybe they were more in jest than in animosity. I have to take issue with your comments - "It was of course the signal for the others who disagree with Tony to wade in with the boot." I think that a bit strong - Tony is hardly one to mince his words is he ?. And when he makes his points it is more often a case of him "putting the boot in" rather than the other way around. He was rather dismissive of the state of football in the USA wasn’t he ?
James - I thought it rather funny the comments re Pele, Beckenbauer & Co.The difference between then and now - is that football in the USA has more homegrown players and less imported "stars". I don’t think the USA has done to badly in recent World Cups - I bet England would ve liked to have had the World Cup result the USA had against Portugal !!!
Didn’t we sign loads of players back in the summer of 1981? And wasn’t it the least known of these - Neville Southall - who was to make the greatest impact ? Signing players isn’t the answer to everything - it’s the signing of good players. There’s little point in bringing in players just for the sake of it. I would rather Moyes bide his time and get the players he wants than "panic buys". And there are several other clubs who have yet to make notable moves in the transfer market.
David Flynn
45   Posted 04/08/2009 at 17:41:59

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"WHY would a football club want to take its squad to a country that shuns Football/Soccer.Its just another poor decision in a long line of others and I cant see where it will all end." Tony Marsh

So you didn’t see Barcelona play LA Galaxy in Los Angeles last week then?
John Martin
46   Posted 04/08/2009 at 17:41:24

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While i agree with Tony Marsh that the way our club is run is a joke i dont agree with critisism of the tour to the states. Every time we have gone there and enjoyed the benefits of there fantastic facilities we’ve had a good season. The 1 time we did go to the far east we returned jet lagged and had a terrible start. Lots of teams try and break into the far east market but all fans out there want to see from this country are Liverpool & Man utd. I’d rather we spend time trying to sort out inept marketing and branding of our club. 1 thing i do wonder about is why we can never get glamourous pre season friendlies, this year we get Malaga!!!! other european nonentities include Bilbao, Werder Bremen. Why cant we get Barca or Juve or some team with a few star players.
Michael Jennings
47   Posted 04/08/2009 at 17:29:25

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Oh I see your point here Marsh the brilliant Far East Tour of 2005 with Us, Man City and Bolton when the players didn’t train properly, played against terrible opposition with no competive nature and on terrible pitches. Didn’t we finish that season on a high??? I mean not winning the last 6 or so games finishing 17th and getting beat by man city five nil on the last day of the season sounds like we had a successful pre season. But what about any money and new fans we would of made from that trip??? Thats right Man United Liverpool Barcelona and Real Madrid still have the biggest fanbase and commercial oppertunities - always have always will. Us goin on some two-bit Job to Asia with a population of eight billion or whatever wont change that. Until Everton win something/play regular CL football or have the main sporting icon from the Far East in our team fans from the Asia won’t give a toss about Everton. Also Considering how cheap and good replicas are in Asia all the shirts you see them wear when United and L’Pool are over there are probably fakes anyway, so I doubt them clubs are making great money on merchandise

In Fact I like the fact moyes trains his players in heat and altitude in Scotland/Italy/America and then plays his teams against teams who are either mid season or two weeks ahead in there pre-season as this works the players out better. Everton play a high octane pressing game (sometimes its boring and negative - But that’s how we play) and to do this are players have got to be super fit - Which I beleive they are.

Everton goin over to Asia and making £2mlillion for example will mean nothing if the players are burnt out after easter and finish mid-table as we would lose half million per place - on last seasons finish that would be £3.5million if we finished twelth instead of fifth!
Tony Marsh
48   Posted 04/08/2009 at 17:47:56

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David Flynn we aint no Barcelona lad.They are a world brand in thier own right and I dont think they will be losing there best players this summer because they are skint.<

Yes you are right about one thing
L A />Galaxy the best known club in the USfrom the best known city. thats where Barca went We where in the arse end of nowhere.UTAH ffs.
David Barks
49   Posted 04/08/2009 at 18:02:59

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Tony,

Again, Barcelona were one example cited. In fact Chelsea, Inter Milan, and AC Milan were all over here, and played all over the country. They played in Seattle, Los Angeles, Texas I believe. And the only reason we were playing in Utah is because that was the location that the MLS All Star game was chosen to be played at. But that is beside the point. The fact is that our match was broadcast across the country in prime time on the nations biggest sports network against the best players in the MLS, which meant that all the fans of the teams that those players were chosen from, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, Houston, D.C, were all watching their players play against us. Everton were all over the sports networks as was Tim Howard. How can that be a bad thing Tony, honestly.
Fran Mitchell
50   Posted 04/08/2009 at 18:13:07

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Man U and Liverpool played infront of 80,000 fans in Asia.

Tottenham, West Ham, Hull etc also played in Asia, but did you see the game. About 500 spectators. I very much doubt that they made much money during that trip, I very much doubt that as a result thousants of fans in tailand are now sporting Hull and West Ham shirts, singing the names of Daniel Cousin and Lucas Neill.

Most clubs go there and the results are tragic. The Jet Lag takes a week to recover from, so basically lose a weeks pre-season. Chance of getting injured in these countries are low. The quality of opposition is so poor hat players dont really get a good run-out.

We went to Asia a few years ago and it was disasterous.

USA however have great training facilities, the quality of opposition is better than in Asia. Thousands/millions watched the game on TV in USA. MLS is actually getting more and more popular in the US. The players and staff are familiar with Salt Lake and it appears to be a good place to spend part of pre-season.

I believe it is Moyes making this decision, not Bill Kenwright.

However, in US you have alot of consumers willing to spend money on merchandise and to watch games on TV. In Asia you have alot of people, but also alot of people who cant but new merchandise and will buy black market stuff instead. Also the market is already taken in Asia by Man Utd, Liverpool, Real Madrid and Barcelona, it’d be like opening a Burger Bar and competing with McDonalds.

Also we have a connection with the US, Tim Howard is one of their best ever football players. He is their start international player and he playsfor us, now we have Peterlin and apparently this other American lad we have a chance to build a market in that country.

Also, Everton are the underdog, the team that suceeds when anyone else in their position would fail, Americans love that, ’the american dream’, its a hollywood film a million times over.

On signings, whatever happened to that Freddy Adu, winger, young, highly rated but fell by the way-side in recent years, American...is he the ’one’.
Tony Marsh
51   Posted 04/08/2009 at 18:46:56

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Fran Thialand or the States there si still a time difference of about 6 hours
either way so the jet lag thing doesnt
work.I was fucked coming back from
New York 5 hours behind us.

I dunno maybe me seeing a stadium filled with 80.000 fans wearing Liverpool kits while we where playing />in the sticks in the US sent me over the edge.I reckon jealousy kicked in and anger over lack of signings took a grip and I have had a Mount Etna moment once more.
Hardly a crime is it?

David Barks I love the States by the way mate Im jealous of you as well mate.

Steve Bryant
52   Posted 04/08/2009 at 18:38:11

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Blimey Tony, that really was a rant ! But you have hit the nail right on the head. Being an Evertonian is a bit like playing the lead role in groundhog day. It’s the same every summer. All through July and August we live in hope of some kind of transfer activity but very little happens. Did you really expect this summer to be any different? I didn’t. We all know there’s no money available so we are just going to have to accept it - after all, we can’t influence the situation can we? All we can do is leave Mr Moyes to rake through the "lego box" trying to find the missing pieces he needs. Will everyone please get the message - there will never be a barrage of high profile signings until we have a high profile investor -FACT. As for the tour of America - Tony is quite right - the USA is not where the money is. The far east is surely the place to be. Surely a major reason we do these tours abroad is to raise our profile with the hope of attracting some serious investors. To go anywhere else is just stupidity beyond belief. As for Lescott, 5 Live have picked up on articles in the Times and the Mail and are reporting that his transfer away from Goodison is imminent. But for £22m, I wouldn’t be too devastated. Money for Moyes means options. And we’re safe in the knowledge that he will use the money wisely. People seem to forget we have a top centre half in Yobo. But Senderos will be good cover once Jags comes back. But Tony, when you talk about our club being a shambles and crumbling, I don’t think you can say Moyes is happy to "just go along with it" - he doesn’t have any choice !! He’s the manager of our great club and like Gordon Brown - he’s "getting on with the job". I don’t think Moyes is being asked to work miracles by Kenwright, but I do think that Moyes is trying to work miracles himself - and for that I admire what he’s doing and has done for us over the past 7 years. He’s put us back on the map - and now he’s trying to keep us there. Neither tony nor anybody else should ever expect any more than that until we get our own billionaire.
Alan Kirwin
53   Posted 04/08/2009 at 18:57:37

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Did others catch this one amidst the passing jetsam, or am I the only one with sides splitting?...I quote:

"While IÕd love Moyes to stand up the shennanigans of the board...That particular course of action may be a double edged sword...But then again, while he sits by and accepts the poor showing we make every summer - he is complicit in their actions.

Moyes is clearly a man of integrity....but his integrity should be to the club..not Kenwright.

Difficult one."

Oh dear. For anyone who bothered to try & decipher this inside-out gibberish, give up now. It’s just McGlone-speak and doesn’t actually mean anything at all at all.

So first we have a man of clear integrity (Moyes), despite being complicit in in the actions of others (Kenwright), presumably with no integrity. Hmm.

But wait, the man with clear integrity can redeem himself simply by doing what Ciaran McGlone suggests. Although if you can work out what the hell that is then you must be none other than..... Ciaran McGlone.

And how, one wonders, can a man of such integrity and, one assumes, intelligence (Moyes), work for another man for more than 7 years (Kenwright) and seemingly not know or understand him anywhere near as well as an obscure Irish fan (McGlone) who has never met or worked with either of them. Hmm? Go on then, answer that!

This just gets better and better. Priceless unfathomable twaddle. More please!!! :))
Paul Gladwell
54   Posted 04/08/2009 at 20:06:03

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Tony think you have shot yourself in the foot a bit with a few of your comments.
We got very big publicity in the states during this tour, much more than in Bangkok three years ago, the grounds where full, unlike the empty Bangkok stadiums and you can bet we got more cash too.
Just because football is not their main sport does not mean millions are not into it as they are, Football is the most played sport over there for people under the age of 20, the country is so big so people forget how many are interested in the sport.
We are not Utd or the shite, we don’t have 50,000 Singaporians or Thais just a few hundred turned up in Bangkok with their big banner and no matter how much I dislike Kenwright I am sur if he was offered a better paying tour they would have been there.
Richard Dodd
55   Posted 04/08/2009 at 20:25:02

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It’s a bit soon to be preaching doom and gloom, Tony! But as that’s your stock in trade, I guess it’s to be expected. BB and Davey go about their business in their own way. They are joined at the hip. Cut one and the other bleeds. That truth was conveyed to me by Bill only a few weeks ago and it’s because of that very special relationship that we have enjoyed the most successful period in the Club’s recent history.

Just face the facts — and try to enjoy life a little more instead of this constant anger and dissatisfaction. Life ain’t a rehearsal, so take joy wherever you can find it!

Ben Jones
56   Posted 04/08/2009 at 20:36:43

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Haha, I have never seen a more contradictory pairing with Tony Marsh and Richard Dodd... love it!

Anyway, about this article, it is a bit extreme but correct in some cases. For publicity, the tour was not good, but for fitness and being ready for the new season, it probably is. But with transfer activity, it seems to be getting a repeat of last year, except by signing a load of obscure players (no doubt from the Football Manager deal thing) and the potential sale of Lescott, so at the moment, looking a hell of a lot worse.

But with buying players, I thought we would have signed one significant one already, but we haven’t. I am a bit frustrated, but if we haven’t signed anybody significant, and I’m sorry, I don’t count Senderos as that significant, compared to Lescott’s ability, then I will NOT be happy, and happily join Tony Marsh in his views. Last season, a lack of numbers and a poor start cost us into a much tougher fight for 4th. If Everton need to progress, such problems need to be addressed. But for now, I will wait until the first game of the season, then judge afterwards.
Iain Smith
57   Posted 04/08/2009 at 20:58:18

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Just to clear one thing up. There is actually a qualyfying scheme for the Asia Cup that Hull, West Ham and Spurs were in. The teams picked are based on being in certain positions in the Prem at certain times of the season. Amusingly Hull nearly missed out all together by being relegated! The Asia Cup always has had different teams each year so it may well end up being us going over there... which only has one benefit to me — it’s live on normal TV!!!
Martin Anderson
58   Posted 04/08/2009 at 20:59:08

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Tony, great to hear your passion, but after this long I think we can trust Moyesy to come up with the goods — he just doesn't sign crap! Isn't it funny how as soon as Davey is intersted in a player, Hughes/Flash Harry/O’Neill et al are all after the same player — but even that is just media hype to keep you tuned into Sky Sports, when you could be saving your subscription in the summer!

Anyway, Man City with all that money are making their club a laughing stock and I predict Hughes out by Christmas... actually I expected more of him somehow — it is disrespectful.... So regarding transfer policy — imagine you are Kenwright and Moyes — you have a list that has been carefully compiled over the last season or longer, discusing with some of the best scouts in the business etc..

And you set an order of priority according to your budget — then you just work your way down — how else can you do it — unless you have billions...

My last point is (you will be relived to hear) — we already have a gr8 team and what about Rodwell, Gosling, Baxter and others coming thru — they look great prospects and ok we need a new right back and maybe a bit more muscle in midfield, but 2 consecutive 5th places and the FA Cup Final ... you just can't argue with that !!

Gerry Western
59   Posted 04/08/2009 at 22:04:03

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Tony, I agree with the sentiments if not all the comments. I recently replied to Alan Kirwin’s piece highlighting our monumental failure to market the club over the years and its reassuring to note that many others share that opinion. It will be hugely disappointing if we fail to capitalise on the relative success in the league and cup. There were so many neutrals willing us on and televised viewings of our victories over the Mancs and the other lot will have struck a cord with many youngsters. What is crucial is that we build on that whilst its fresh in the memories and if that means borrowing to splash out then so be it.

I honestly believe we won’t get a better chance than this season. The Sky four are more vulnerable than ever and City may need a season to bed in their stars. To do that however we will need a top midfielder, additionally I do hope we sign Elm, with a bit of luck he could prove to be another Cahill, Jagielka, Arteta, Lescott in terms of VFM. However, if we fail to strengthen this term we really could miss the boat.

As someone else has pointed out there is no better way to market the club than by winning things. Incidentally on the Lescott issue like Tony I wish the lad all the best should he decide to go he’s been a great servant in his short time with the club I don’t think we will be able to replace him easily but if we can bring in two good signings that would soften the blow. The question is, in the event that he does go, will BK be prepared make the entire proceeds available for new purchases in addition to any earlier spending plans.
Dick Fearon
60   Posted 05/08/2009 at 00:20:14

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Much like Richard Dodd, Tony Marsh is rapidly becoming a figure of fun but for opposite reasons. I much prefer the Doddy version if only that he is a beacon of hope while Tony is merely a harbinger of doom.
Neil Pearse
61   Posted 05/08/2009 at 00:28:09

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Tony, as they say in Zen circles: now I am enlightened!

Here’s me thinking we finished fifth the last two seasons, just behind four of the richest teams in the world.

Turns out it was all a strange dream and we are now playing in The Championship....
Art Tosh
62   Posted 05/08/2009 at 00:27:56

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There are different themes being talked about here -

Getting a bigger audience (so we make more money)
Getting better players

Tony, I think you’re mixing them up. Everton aren’t.

The reason Everton go to the USA each close season is because we have made a big investment in the Everton Way in the States and have 20 local soccer clubs sponsored and scouted. I live in the States and Everton are making some real inroads at the grassroots youth soccer level.

Playing the MLS All-Stars was a big boost to that, it provides further branding support to the work the coaches and scouts are doing. Anton Peterlin isn’t going to be the only US youngster coming from nowhere to Everton. EFC have figured that there is an enormous potential pool of talent in the US and that outweighs fawning to the Asian market that is already hammered by Man U and Liverpool. It seems intelligent business sense to me.

Finally, I’m really fed up with knee-jerk moans about lack of transfers. Moyes et al have made some excellent decisions and haven’t been held to ransom — if you can’t trust that they know what they are doing by now, you really haven’t been paying attention.

Andy Crooks
63   Posted 05/08/2009 at 00:54:43

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Alan, as another obscure Irish fan, I have tried to decipher Ciarán’s comments. It seems to me that he is suggesting that Moyes and Kenwright come as a pair and that the loyalty that Moyes shows is detrimental to the club. I would have to agree with him on that.
Kurt Knight
64   Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:44:06

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I want to add to Art’s comments above. I am a US guy that longs to one day attend a match at Goodison. I dream about it - literally.

The point that Art makes is absolutely on -- I live Everton now, soley because they took the time and investment to sponsor a youth development league in Florida, where I coached (until they got smart and raised their standards).

I don’t want to add to the picks at Bangkok - but seriously Tony -- how many Thai players in the PL? Get serious. From the looks of Fellani, they should have left him the states for a bit of double cheeseburgers.
Stewart Littler
65   Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:42:36

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One thing that can’t be doubted is that when Mr Marsh posts, the TW regulars come-a-flocking! Fucking took ages to read!

I have to agree with many responders that the States is a great place to hold our pre season camps. Re-iterating other posts, the All Star game is watched by millions, we have forged contacts over there, and the facilities are second to none. However, claiming jet lag was to blame after the Asian tour is a little loose - I have been both ways, and the jet lag was just as bad in both cases.

I do have to say though that Tony has a point re transfers. The club publicly stated that it would do it’s business early, and hasn’t. Now, I’m actually glad, as I would rather have Jo than Owen, and think £10m was too much to pay for the ’2 Kyles’. Similarly, I wouldn’t have touched Cana with a barge pole, and Delph would have been a massive risk at anything more than £3m. At the same time, once all the dust has settled, it would be nice to hear about why it didn’t happen.

In terms of Senderos, as others have pointed out above, we prob thought less of Lescott when he signed. And it’s still a little early to assume he would be a replacement.
Kristian Boyce
66   Posted 05/08/2009 at 03:24:00

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Tony, I agree with you on most of the points in your article, but have to disagree with you concerning the USA trips. I’ve been living over in the States for the last 7 years and have seen the interest in Football/Soccer grown by leaps and bounds. As others have said, the MLS All-Stars game last week brought huge media attention to Tim Howard and more importantly Everton. ESPN ran the game and afterwards it was all over the ESPN SportsCenter. It was the first time I had people I know talk to me the next day about the game as they watched it the previous night.

Soccer is still in its infancy in this country and new fans are being created everyday. The soccer fans I meet , like to have a second team to support along with a MLS team. Along with the usual suspects of the SKY4 and Real & Barca, an extremely popular team is Fulham! Why? Because of the American players there and them playing the All-Stars a few years back. You mention that going over to Thailand would be a huge commercial success, I think our trips here can be of more financial gain. Soccer in America is still the sport of the white middle-class suburban families, with the ’Soccer Mom’ image. These people will have no problem dropping the $70 to buy an authentic replica jersey of our club. No disrespect to the Asian countries that you want us to tour, how many of the shirts you see are cheap knock off items, which our team gets no value from?

The US market is still relatively untapped and with the growth of the game here, I think our club has made some good solid foundations. The ’Everton Way" coaching program also will provide great marketing exposure for the club. I can see Moyes bring the boys over for a number of years as the facilities and training is second to none.
Saying all that, I live in a predominantly Mexican area, and I just saw my first knock off Everton shirt in a market lol
Sunny Li
67   Posted 05/08/2009 at 04:42:15

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Tony you have no clue of the Far East Market. You don’t gain fans by visiting and playing a friendly. You do so by either (1) winning trophies or (2) signing someone of that country. If Li Tie didn’t fuck up we could be much more popular in China now, even if we never played a friendly there.
Jamie Crowley
68   Posted 05/08/2009 at 04:20:26

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Tony -
you’re off on the US trip. It’s a good idea, great facilities, expands our brand in a country that is growing in soccer / football. It got very, very good coverage over here and was great PR for the Club. All the pro-US trip assesment above from other Americans is spot on.

Regarding the summer and transfers, I just don’t know what to think anymore. Lescott leaving would be good business, but it just is not sitting well with me. Letting him leave to strengthen a direct competitor while weakening us seems poor.

I feel confused, empty, and yet hopeful we can do the right thing with the money should he go.

I trust Moyes as I think he works miracles sometimes. But if Lescott leaves I think worries about the Club are justified. We need to sign players and quickly - RM, RB, and CB (sans Lescott, and not including Senderos as he’s cover) br />
I think Everton is making me bi-polar for Crissakes. Happy then disappointed. Hopeful then broken...

We need to start playing games. This transfer window shit causes ulcers.
Tony, I prefer to hold to Hope. But I’m hearing you loud and clear. Either way keep writing - provides and evening’s entertainment for me while I read through the 1056 posts you generate every time your fingers hit the letters on the keyboard.
Ciarán McGlone
69   Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:21:39

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Alan Kirwin,


You really are making yourself look like a bitter, twisted, sad and particularly stupid little man.

If you want to take pot shots, at least make them decent..

However I’m not sure how that fits in with the well-rounded, cultured and laid back portrait you so often paint of yourself.

In other words..stick to the football, asshole.
Ciarán McGlone
70   Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:24:19

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’Alan, as another obscure Irish fan, I have tried to decipher Ciarán’s comments. It seems to me that he is suggesting that Moyes and Kenwright come as a pair and that the loyalty that Moyes shows is detrimental to the club. I would have to agree with him on that.’
-------------------------

Congratulations on having the brains that Mr Kirwin clearly doesn’t possess, Andy. I thought it was quite a lucid point, that didn’t take much understanding. Obviously a bit harder for some though.
Matthew Mackey
71   Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:56:46

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Happy fuckin' days.

It's pissin' it down outside, another fuckin' crap summer, back garden under water again, no new big signings, the ground fallin' down, DK still bein' pushed down our throats, JLo wants to go — JLo will go, City (the Trash with Cash) finally get their way. Naughton ends up at Spurs, Delph goes to Villa... happy fuckin' days!
Neil Pearse
72   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:01:23

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Ciaran, I actually did understand you, especially as this is a point you have made before (all of us regulars repeat ourselves here, so no harm in that...)

But I am still, to use Tony’s word, "puzzled". I assume what you want is that Moyes stops ’showing loyalty’ to Kenwright by causing some showdown ("Bill, I need £30M now or I am out of here!"), and then resigns? Is that it?

Can you let me know how exactly this would help? Moyes is gone. Bill still doesn’t have the £30M, and he’s still the major shareholder. The club becomes very unstable, players will be more inclined to leave now their boss and mentor has gone, and we are certainly less attractive to a new owner than we were before Moyes pushed off.

What am I missing?
Ciarán McGlone
73   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:37:12

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Neil,

I quite clearly stated that it could be a double edged sword.

Davey’s loyalty should be to the club not Kenwright...Eventually one of them WILL go...I hope it’s not Moyes.
Brian Lawlor
74   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:50:00

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I agree 100% with you Tony.

It staggers me how naive some of our fans are. They believe everything that Kenwright and the club have to say even after the many years of empty promises, lies (including DK) and stupid quotes "watch this space" etc. etc. They believe that Bullshit Bill is doing all he can to sell the club even when clubs are being taken over left, right and centre all over the land.

Do these fans have no ambition? Are they happy to be led down the garden path?

The fact is each year becomes more of a challenge to stay where we are i.e in Europa League. Without investment the only place for us to go is backwards.

The Lescott move is also turning in to a saga. We all know he’s going and the club will be happy for it to be close to the dealin as possible and then the money will disappear like it did with McFadden and Johnson.

Tony Williams
75   Posted 05/08/2009 at 12:30:24

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Brian, for a lot of fans it is not naivete but they don’t feel the need to lambast every single weakness shown by Everton/Players/Manager/Chairman/Board.

Apart from crackpot Doddy, no-one believes everything Kenwright says and they would be bonkers if they did, "24/7 & Watch this space" will haunt that man for years.

You are mistaking acceptance of reality with lack of ambition, we all want to win every game etc etc but a lot of fans can see why we are not, we know we need better players but we also know we can’t afford them, it is a resignation that we know we will never win things without a better team/squad, it is not a lack of ambition.....what does that even mean? what we think will never reflect onto the pitch unless we leave in droves and less money is given to EFC.....then we will probably criticise the board again for not buying better players even though we have directly caused the revenue to fall.

Don’t think because Tony moans constantly that he is more ambitious that other fans, it simply means he likes to moan.
Dave Wilson
76   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:55:27

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"acceptance of reality and lack of ambition"

Two cheeks of the same arse
Tony Marsh
77   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:59:30

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Terry Marsbar Maddox the day I start to worry about or listen to a traitor like you I will give up watching football for good.The likes of you are a curse on this club.Your to thick to realise what you have done in the past.I might give my opinions and people may agrre or disagree with them and thats what this forum is all about.

You on the other hand used to brag and boast about voting Yes to Kirkby
and I dont think you have the right to an opinion any more.Your like are a Leper to me and I take no notice of what you do or say.
Tony Williams
78   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:11:38

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I can sense how angry you were Marshy, typing that.

A little tip though, if you are going to have a go at someones intelligence don’t type "Your to thick" unless you are trying to be ironic.



"The likes of you are a curse on this club", "I dont think you have the right to an opinion any more"....you could not be any more ironic with that second sentence if you tried.

"Your like are a Leper to me" Charming
Peter Hurley
79   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:55:03

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Tony, most of you’re points don’t add up under scrutiny. Average transfers in the Premier League at the moment are 3.35 per club or, 2.82 if you discount the newly promoted ones, so we’re no different to most of the rest here. The US market can get big attendances in the US ask one of the 93,137 who watched the LA Galaxy v Barcelona game, so more to do with brand image than anything else it would seem and improvements here only come with success. Also the Seattle Sounders are averaging over 30,000 a game in the MLS which isn’t bad in a country where the sport is not part of the countries traditional culture, and the All Star game was sell-out with over 20,000 (25% above average MLS gate). As for the Club being in a shambles well yes we do have DK hanging over us but a record financia turnover, 5th in the league, Euro qualification and an apperance in the major domestic Cup final is not bad and far from shamblic. As for DK the future is yet to be written for us on this but one things for certain we can’t improve upon our commercial position at Goodison Park and there really dosen’t seem to be any other viable alternative at the moment.
Ben Jones
80   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:34:04

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God, these debates are agressive... though really entertaining to watch
Michael Evans
81   Posted 05/08/2009 at 18:15:31

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Sorry Ben - your "agressive" comment I can totally agree but I can’t find anything "entertaining" in some of Tony’ s comments.

Saying someone is a "leper" or "The likes of you are a curse on this club" can’t be justified.

We all get wound up about Everton probably beacuse we care too much. The debate on here gets pretty heated at times

However, if we can’t accept the right of someone else to both have and express a different opinion to ours then TW is no longer a Forum for debate.
Alan Clarke
82   Posted 05/08/2009 at 20:29:59

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Ben Jones, you’re right. The level of ’debate’ on here over the past week has had me in stitches. It’s like watching verbal boxing between Marshy in the red corner, Alan Kirwin in the blue corner, Cairan McGlone in the other corner and Dave Wilson in the other. There are a few undercard fights but the title fight of McGlone v Kirwin now emerges on every thread taking the ’debate’ far away from anything to do with the original post. It has almost become like a spectator sport in itself reading their comments but it definitely helps me get through a day in work.
Jack Francis
83   Posted 06/08/2009 at 00:12:15

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Tony, haven't you listened to a word Blue Bill has said? "Watch this space"... it's going to happen. I don't know what's going to happen, but it will because BK is going to make it happen! What he says goes! Lescott won't leave for a penny under £30m because BK said so! We believe in our board, don't we... after all we've bid for the best before! I'm sure we bid for Ronaldo only to be outbid by Real so "watch this space" and trust good old BK!
Jamie Crowley
84   Posted 06/08/2009 at 04:56:13

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Alan C. - Exactly! It’s a brawl amongst the "TW Sky 4". So damn entertaining I piss myself reading.

Jack - I defend BK, but you’re delusional.... I don’t mind the man and back him, but that blind loyalty (was it a wind-up) is exactly what gives Tony a kick in the nuts.
Terry Maddock
85   Posted 06/08/2009 at 10:40:00

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Actually tony..I didnt say anything..i just copied and pasted your own comments to prove that you had just lied. And to prove that 99% of what you say is rubbish...

Don't get me wrong though, Tony... you are right occasionally. But then... if you say its going to rain every day, you will be right eventually.

PS. I do have rather dry skin, which I have be careful with... but I'm pretty sure its not Leprosy.
Paul Joy
86   Posted 06/08/2009 at 16:35:08

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It has taken me about 3 years but I am warming to old misery guts Tony Marsh!!

The USA trip might make a nice jolly camp with great facilities for male bonding etc but it is not right for Everton. We lack European experience and savvy. It has cost dearly — Fiorentina, Villarreal, Standard Liege and very nearly Metallist too. We lack the know-how with Euro refs too. A pre-season with a short camp in Europe and playing against European sides with European refs would help to build our experience — initially for the Europa League but ambitiously for the Champions League (we do have ambitions there... don’t we?).

Ok, if the money men want to improve our global brand then go somewhere to do that — Tony is right; the place to do so would be the Far East — not Mormonville, USA. If anyone can explain what EFC gained from the 2 matches over there, I would like to know.

Most importantly for me — and this was also the case last year — I want our Manager to be right here where he can be fully influential on our transfer dealings, not stuck 5,000 miles away.

Or are we being lied to again regarding funds really being available to David Moyes... because last year he only got the money that Johnson and McFadden brought in to buy Fellaini?

One thing that could have been brought to a head 2 weeks ago is the Lescott "should I stay or should I go?" situation. Dragging on the way it has does not help us at all. If he is going, get it done and quick — for the best price — and get the cash spent on players to improve the team and the squad.

Like Marshy, I don’t like the way the club conducts itself each summer and the buck stops with Bill Kenwright. It just smells... and so does Destination Kirkby for that matter.

Sorry to agree with you, Marshy — now I am off in search of medication.
Jack Francis
87   Posted 06/08/2009 at 22:09:41

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Jamie it was a wind up,you must of been tired mate judging by the time you sent your text in.
Jamie Crowley
88   Posted 06/08/2009 at 23:14:10

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Jack -
It was late... You have to read so many damn posts when Marsh gives his two cents that it makes your eyes bug.
Ged Dwyer
89   Posted 07/08/2009 at 16:34:42

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As usual Tony spot on. Moyes doesn’t help either. The centre midfield and wide right positions still not sorted. But Moyes has only had 7 years!. It’s not that we need world beaters to replace Osman and Carsley who left last season, just players who’ll give us balance and would push us on. We’re still wingless, unbalanced and not ready for another season. And Fellaini will only hinder the midfield as he’s just not up to it in this position. The frustration continues!

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