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Joleon Lescott — You're Staying With Us!

By Jason Broome :  11/08/2009 :  Comments (78) :
Now is the time for a calm mind. A transfer request is just that… a request. ‘We don’t have to sell!’

If Joleon has proved anything of late, it is that he is both self-centred and ambitious. Any player who makes up his mind that quickly and sticks to it for that long already had ambitions transcending the manager, the players and the club. All the passionate cheering or a well-meaning letter (cough) isn’t going to change that.

Panic breeds panic and there is more at stake than Joleon Lescott’s future. Moyes has never lost the confidence of the dressing room and now is not the time. What would it mean for Moyes to forfeit both his word and his player..?

“It was an important message the manager sent out when he insisted Joleon was going nowhere. Joleon is a big player for this club, along with so many others. No-one would be happy to see an important player leave.” – Tim Howard.

If Joleon leaves, could that affect team moral and unsettle the others? Of course, as long as the club loses control and has no forward ambitions. Nothing has changed regarding our plans. Lescott honours his contract, we stay the course and bring in the targets we need (namely right-back & right-wing).

You see, it works both ways. Team morale would be affected if the request were granted and I fear the backlash and booing from the fans might affect the team as well. Therefore, those of you considering booing Lescott should think how that is going to (a) affect the player, (b) team moral, and (c) our chances against Arsenal.

Lescott will have to be professional on and off of the pitch and fans can’t boo forever (but knowing of the unrelenting vitriol levied at Kenwright, it takes a brave man to make that assumption).

But in all seriousness, as Paul Dewhurst stated on another thread… ‘It will serve him no purpose playing badly in a World Cup year.’ I agreed then and I still do! Ambition suggests that he’s not going to want to harm his chances of the World Cup experience.

Those of you who have stated that Lescott isn’t bigger than the club are 100% right. We don’t have to be bullied by Joleon, the media, or Manchester City… We just need to ensure that integrity remains intact; and Moyes needs to know that whatever he decides on this issue is right for the club, the players and the fans alike!

Gareth Barry was the subject of such rumours last year but was professional enough to maintain good form throughout the season. Why should Joleon be any different? Villa had a good season, never lost control and neither should we!

The sad truth is we are in need of Joleon Lescott more than Manchester City. We don’t have much at Everton, and that is why integrity is vital. For this coming season nothing changes, request denied, now let’s move on.

Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Mike McLean
1   Posted 12/08/2009 at 06:18:45

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I agree with every word of this.

Had Moyes not made such a public point perhaps something could have been arranged behind the scenes and then disguised with the usual smoke and mirrors.

But, he’s nailed his colours to the mast and if Lescott is sold (complete insanity at this stage of the pre season, he will have one hell of a job with the rest of the squad.
Dave Wilson
2   Posted 12/08/2009 at 06:01:08

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Interesting thoughts - and as Arl Brucie used to say, So much better than last week This issue has stirred an awful lot of emotion, not just amongst Evertonians. The eyes of football are now firmly fixed on DM. I feel he has kinda painted himself into a corner with his stance. If he is to come out of this with his reputation in tact he has to get it right A large percentage of football is played in the mind and the question has to be what state is JL’s in now, he may be able to give 100% effort, but to be a top class premiership player your concentration has to be total, he will inevitably get abuse from some sections of the fans, how will he cope, some people thrive on it but abuse is usually hurled at players by the opposition. These circumstances are really quite unusual - I may be wrong but I dont think Barry actually handed in a request. I’m not sure what Moyse has in mind, does he intend to make an example of let Lescot and drop him ? that’ll test his friendship with BK If he does play Lescot will he persist if Lescot is mentally not at the races ? Or does "not for sale " actually mean : Only for sale on Evertons terms, when we are good and ready ?
Dave Wilson
3   Posted 12/08/2009 at 06:26:36

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Can anyone confirm if Barry actually handed in a request last season ?
Tony Kelly
4   Posted 12/08/2009 at 07:18:23

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It makes no sense to keep an unhappy player. I say cash in now and strenghten the rest of the squad. I am in the minority on this site,as I don’t think Lescott is as good as he is made out to be. My mind goes back to the cup final and Drogba’s goal,when the cross came in Lescott shit himself. If the manager gets all the money from his impending sale I think it will be a good piece of business. I also think Senderos is a good player. when he plays for Switzerland he is a no nonsense old fashioned centre half. It seems that when he plays for Arsenal he tries to play football all the time and that is not his game. He is purely and simply a stopper in the Dave Watson and Brian Labone mould,and they weren’t bad where they!!
Paul Gladwell
5   Posted 12/08/2009 at 07:46:51

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I think through all this people are forgetting how good he really is,
He is not worth £22M, he is not worth £15M in my eyes, he is a good defender nothing more nothing less, he is not even our best defender and we need money more than we need Lescott.
I can understand Moyes keeping to his principles but it seems this may turn into an obsession keeping to them with his anger at how City have behaved.
If Jagielka was fit how many of you who are saying keep him would say sell him?
IF he is given all the cash then buying a replacement for £8M-£10M plus a player with a bit of pace and width would be more beneficial to our season long term than keeping a good Premiership defender who does not want to play for us and who will not get the full support from our fans.
Fleece City for all we can and get shut.
I have been gutted at the sale of players down the years, The big fella, Beardsley and the way Rooney left but when he goes It wont register to me one little bit, lets move forward because without him we will.
Dave Whitwell
6   Posted 12/08/2009 at 08:11:30

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Agree totally with this article, I have also thought about the world cup scenario and think that he will have to continue to be professional.

Kind of also agree with Paul Gladwell though I don’t think he is our best defender, but my biggest problem with him going is that I don’t think we know how to use the money, and hence the player means more to us than the money.

I do think it is a must now though that he starts on Saturday, as Moyes must continue his stance on the matter. As for the fans reaction, timing aside can anyone really blame him, he has the right to hand in a request just as the club do to reject it. The key to it is how he deals with the rejection. If he continues to be professional I see no reason why we shouldn’t continue to cheer him whilst he wears our colours.
Gareth Humphreys
7   Posted 12/08/2009 at 08:33:04

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(1) Man CIty are flexing their financial muscles in this - can’t blame them as every one who has it does it. We have done it before so lets not get all high and mighty about Man City’s money - its how football economics operate and will continue to do so.
(2) Joleon Lescott is from Birmingham and has the chance to move from Liverpool to Manchester for double his money. Before anyone slates him ask yourselves this - would you move from Villa to Birmingham for double your money. Of course you would. Apart from the start of last season he has been superb for 3 years. Give the lad a break and if he goes just thank him for the superb serviceand the big fat profit we are going to make.
(3) Everton are skint and have to weigh up £20m odd quid against losing a very good player. The problem is in the shape of the lack of numbers we already have at the back and the fact that yard dogs like Matthew Upson are now being valued by West Ham at £14m.

My view is he has a long contract that was good enough for him prior to Man City showing their hand. We need to take the superb approach Aston Villa adopted last year with Gareth Barry and say to him stop sulking, your on £40k a week and if it is right for the club in January or next summer when we can get a suitable replacement, we will sell you then at a price thats right for us.
There is no danger of his form suffering in a world cup year.
Suzy Whitehead
8   Posted 12/08/2009 at 08:48:54

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I will say it again;

Joleon Lescott is leaving EFC - i can guarntee this 100%.

Move on.
Tony I'Anson
9   Posted 12/08/2009 at 08:52:06

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If he plays on Saturday, DM will have to write a cracking piece for the matchday program urging fans not to boo ANY current Everton player. There is much more than money involved here and our image across the world. We have been building up lots of respect in how we go about things, but I feel the boo boys on Saturday would go towards ruining this.

We have to stand up for our principles and I think when the going is getting tough on this, many are saying "take the money".

As a point of principle, I don’t think we should take the money and tell City to get lost until such time that DM decides what to do with this Everton player.

If he decides to sell him in the transfer January window because we have a proper replacement bedded in, then he could go for £30M and our principles more in tact. I can’t stand bullies and I just feel we are being bullied into selling, despite the transfer request that JL agents have probably told him to hand in.
Ciarán McGlone
10   Posted 12/08/2009 at 09:12:11

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If Moyes digs in over this he is a complete idiot who is more worried about the perception of himself than the club - this could be more damaging than simply selling Lescott..

Moyes should not let his principles get in the way of this deal. The time for principles ended with the transfer request. Nobody wants Lescott at the club now, including himself - so why prolong the torture just so Moyes can save face...This whole situation is dangerous - Moyes could find this who thing blowing up in his face...we’ll have the possibility of fans booing our own player on the pitch and Moyes facilitating that scenario...It’s not going to be pretty if Moyes doesn’t wind his neck in...

At least this circus has taken the focus of our board and their abrogation of any form of support for Moyes...Which in my opinion - has bred this situation.
David Grace
11   Posted 12/08/2009 at 08:38:30

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I don't think Barry handed in a transfer request officially last year, no. It's a very similiar situation though: he wanted to go, O’Neill didnt want him to, he gave them one year! Plus the Villa fans got behind him and I think we should do the same with Lescott.

He owes us loyalty, of course he does; he's an established Premier League defender now and has forced his way into the England set-up... but come on, who wouldn't move for double your money and tied into a long contract? In my opinion he owes us one last year, he knows we haven't got Jags yet, Senderos isn't fit to clean Jagielka's & Lescott’s boots, so he should do the honourable thing and put off his £100k a week for a year. Surely £40k a week is enough for him to get by on for the next season; if they value him as much as we do, they’ll wait for him in this so-called big plan of theirs! Also there's no way going to City will do him any more good for the World Cup than staying with us!
Geoff Edwards
12   Posted 12/08/2009 at 09:45:55

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I also think it will be a mistake to keep him now, not just because of the booing he’ll probably get.

An upcoming World Cup is no guarantee of good performance. Lescott not being allowed his move, coupled with fact that Man City will probably move onto another target (Upson?) will leave us with a very aggrieved player on our hands. If that affects his performance then both him and the club lose out. It could also lose him a place in the England squad and the WC.

He’ll then end up leaving anyway but for a fraction of the cost next year.
Matthew Mackey
13   Posted 12/08/2009 at 09:41:43

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The reason why so many of us are annoyed, pissed off, disappointed,angered or even saddened by the Lescott situation is because we don’t actually want him to go. We feel offended that someone would want to leave our beloved Everton. That’s how I feel anyway.

Booing the lad on Saturday against Arsenal or any other game JLo plays in might make us feel better coz we’re getting it off our chests so to speak, but it will actually have a detrimental effect in the whole team which is what we don’t want.
So maybe it’s time to do something more subtle like go completely silent every time JLo touches the ball and when his name is announced.
So we can’t be accused of slagging the player or the team off can we.
Ciarán McGlone
14   Posted 12/08/2009 at 10:01:37

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What’s that often used saying - ’no one man is bigger than the club’

That also applies to you and your stubborness Moyes!!!!

Terry Beeken
15   Posted 12/08/2009 at 10:29:24

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just reading on a citeah website and the majority of their fans don’t even want joleon and certainly not for more than 10million, they are also suggesting martin petrov could be used in any deal! Don’T know how much truth is in it?
Dave Wilson
16   Posted 12/08/2009 at 10:26:36

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I’m struggling to work out where Moyse is actually going with this. he surely knows Lescot has gone, he doesnt have to play the victim, because he actually is.

Principled, Stubborn, old fashioned, he’s all of them, but stupid he aint.

WTF is he up to ?
Kevin Hudson
17   Posted 12/08/2009 at 10:26:15

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" If Moyes digs in over this he is a complete idiot who is more worried about the perception of himself than the club.."

Absolute garbage. Moyes is a grown man,a father of two children,who has never once demonstrated personal vanity or inflated ego attributes.

And now he’s stubborn because he has shown leadership ?? That is his job-he is the boss !!

If he keeps Lescott,that is his choice. "Tough shit Joleon-you’re staying,and you better damn give your all for this club." End of discussion.

You don’t know what is happening behind the scenes. You do not know what Moyes’ motivation is. Your ignorant,judicious and assumptive guesswork does not correlate to the reality Ciaran.
Paul Gladwell
18   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:01:56

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As Matthew said dont boo if he plays just dont aknowledge him, he got treated with the utmost respect last week then hands a transfer request in on Monday when he was away with his arrogant chums.
Ciarán McGlone
19   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:09:27

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He may not be an unintelligent man Dave..buit sometimes recalcitrance can breed irrationality!

In my opinion Moyes is clearly in this course..and could do himself some damage in the process.

It something I’ve noticed in him before..an unwillingness to drop a player even though the whole world can see he’s been playing poorly....sticking with a formation and not substituting even though most can see a change is needed..I consider this digging in of heels to be another example of the mans inate stubborness....he needs to get over it - for the good of the club.
James Stewart
20   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:12:18

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tony kelly - finally someone talking sense.

lescott is a complete short sighted idiot and i will be glad too see him leave everton. never rater him as a player and he has be over hyped to the extreme. i have been criticized for this many a time on here but i feel i had the last laugh now!

the real sadness is that all our efforts are being put in keeping an average player instead of replacing the other players who have already left over the last 3 years!!!
there would be no point finishing forth with our squad size as it would end in embarrassment just like before.
Ciarán McGlone
21   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:14:15

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Kevin Hudson,

What exactly has having a family got to do with your point? or Vanity or ego for that matter...what I said was stubborness. Different kettle of fish..and he’s demonstrated it plenty of times.

I don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes..and neither do you.

I’m basing my opinion on facts - the facts being that we have a player who does not want to play for us...and a manager who refuses to sell even though playing him will create a nasty situation- whereas selling him would yield 20mill+

Those are facts.

I find your...’tough shit, you’re staying’ argument - less than intelligent - and possibly more damaging for the club than selling.

P.S try a little civility.
Lee Hind
22   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:22:10

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Get him gone, he doesn’t want to play for us and now he’s shown his hand I don’t want him to play for us.

20-22m depending on which rag is your pleasure is a fine price for a centre half who is good but not brilliant and who lets not forget cost us just £5.5m

The only thing I will say is it may be tricky getting a replacement in this late in the day...
Ciarán McGlone
23   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:20:46

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Oh and by the way Kevin...where exactly do you stand on clubs sacking managers?

How does this fit into your ’tough shit, you’re staying’ philosophy?
Gareth Humphreys
24   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:36:32

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Ciaran, the hard line approach worked last year with Gareth Barry when Villa got a good year out of him and still a fat fee despite him having only 12 months left of his contract.

Lescott wants to double his wages. Not to not play for Everton - they are 2 different things.
Unless we get a stupid offer and 2 more centrebacks ready to sign I’d be doing exactly what Moyes is doing.
Kevin Hudson
25   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:32:06

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Adding a smug " P.s," at the end of a post isn’t civil either Ciaran,and come now; Stop being such a hypocrite!! You’re the most sneering contributor on the site,by a mile !! Referring to the manager as "a complete idiot," as you did,doesn’t equate to civility either !!

A board sacking a manager is completely distict from a player requesting a transfer.Yet another porous analogy there.

My original point is that I simply disagreed with your attack on the manager, casting aspertions on his character,from a position of relative ignorance.
Trust in him to do his job !!

I agree,Lescott should go: But don’t get bitchy,and personal at the manager for "apparently," disagreeing with this.

{By the way-please don’t inflict another pretentious article on us}

Civility is a redundant quality to the obnoxious,anyway...
Ciarán McGlone
26   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:51:56

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Kevin,

It seems you’re still gnashing your teeth from our last encounter....I’ll not retaliate...as your continued personal insults show I’ve obviously done my job.

Now on to your ridiculous reply - Breaking a contract is breaking a contract...whether it’s a club sacking a manager or a player wishing to go to another club...The fact that you failed to answer and substituted it with prevarication is telling. I have no doubt that a lot of the people displaying your idiotic ’Tough shít, You’re staying’ attitude would have any problem with a club sacking a manager.

P.S [No smugness] David Moyes is a grown man (er, with two kids) - I doubt he needs your amusing rotweiller routine to save his integrity on here.

If he dig his heels in, then in my opinion he’s being a idiot...whether you like my tone or not.
Ciarán McGlone
27   Posted 12/08/2009 at 11:51:56

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Kevin,

It seems you’re still gnashing your teeth from our last encounter....I’ll not retaliate...as your continued personal insults show I’ve obviously done my job.

Now on to your ridiculous reply - Breaking a contract is breaking a contract...whether it’s a club sacking a manager or a player wishing to go to another club...The fact that you failed to answer and substituted it with prevarication is telling. I have no doubt that a lot of the people displaying your idiotic ’Tough shít, You’re staying’ attitude would have any problem with a club sacking a manager.

P.S [No smugness] David Moyes is a grown man (er, with two kids) - I doubt he needs your amusing rotweiller routine to save his integrity on here.

If he dig his heels in, then in my opinion he’s being a idiot...whether you like my tone or not.
Alan Clarke
28   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:01:27

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Good on you Suzy for sticking to your guns, you’re like Moysie insiting he’s not selling!

Do you have any more inside info on who we might be signing?
Steve Edwards
29   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:10:58

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I said some time ago that Lescott was as good as gone and nothing has changed. Are we going to leave it until deadline day and try and bring someone in to replace him and improve the team with the money we get from him?

For fuck sake lets move on. I don’t think he is worth 22 million. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, he had a shit start to last season and finished the season responsible for Chelsea’s equalizer in the cup final. He also spent an awful lot of his career at Everton playing full back. We managed quite well at centre back without him. Baines has now nailed down the left back spot. The problem that we’ve got is that the Jag is out until November. I firmly believe that we can get an adequate replacement for Lescott for less than 10 million but its no good waiting until he fucks off on the last day of the transfer window.

Davey stop being silly, get it sorted and use the money now to improve the team.
Paul Joy
30   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:11:25

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Just some thoughts on the "ambition" being shown by Joleon Lescott by wanting a move to the club formerly known as Man City.

Ambitious for what ?

Cup Finals? European football? Regular selection in Capello’s England squad? £2 million a year wages? He has all of these at Everton.

Please please please do not believe he wants to go to City for anything to do with ambition. The only reason is money.

On that I cannot blame him at all - who would not want the opportunity to double/treble their wages for doing the same job?

So if money defines ambition then he is ambitious. As are the equally ambitious Gareth Barry (who turned down a chance to realistically challenge for playing honours), Adebayor, Carlos "call me loyal" Tevez, Santa Cruz, Kolo Toure.

Mercenaries all - Ambitious my arse
Tim Lloyd
31   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:18:16

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I’m afraid I cannot be on your side in this discussion, Ciaran. I strongly agree with Jason Broome inasmuch as Moyes backing down over Lescott could easily start a rush of request tranfer demands.

Lescott is a good player, probably at his best when paired with Jagielka, but not our best player by any means. I feel both Pienaar and Arteta are equally if not more a ’good buy’ for a club such as City.

If Moyes gives way on the Lescott issue he could start a landslide of transfer requests. How would you feel then? Man City, more than any other club, has set about building a team using solely players obtained from other Premier League clubs, in effect their rivals.

Good on you David Moyes for holding up your hand and telling Hughes, not in my manor you don’t.

I know you won’t agree with my outlook on this because, from my experience of reading your comments on various other issues, you do not care for David Moyes. I feel that your dislike colours your comments at times.

Still, you are entitled to your opinion as much as I am to mine.
Rob Pendleton
32   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:16:43

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Stand your ground Kevin, everyone is entitled to their opinion on this forum and yours is just as valid- and for what its worth - I agree with you..

Ciaran likes to put the word ’fact’ in inverted commas in every article he responds to and thinks that makes his opinion right and not open to scrutiny.

P.S. Ciaran - respond to this by highlighting quotes and getting in to a slanging match all you like cause every post I open with a response from you moves me to back out and read something else. Give it up chief- it’s childish.

Gonna try to find an interesting and valid read now from the master- Tony Marsh.
Gareth Charles
33   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:33:21

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I would love to see us keep Lescott but I can’t see him staying now - this would be no slight on Moyes or his statements to date. The fact of the matter is he wants out and has made it clear.

Moyes may keep to his guns and I can’t see the club not backing him (that way lies madness and Moyes leaving). Maybe a January exit at best — give Jags a chance to recover.

It is important for Everton FC to keep their cool. man U have lost Tevez and Ronaldo this season, Arsenal Adebayor. The fact of the matter is that he is out the door. Move on; he is just a player, a good one - but just a player... and we get £20M+ in the deal. Good business. He isn’t that good.

We will recover....This isn’t about our lack of funding. There are few clubs that can compete with that level of spending. This is not to say I am happy with the situation but that is football.

Up the Toffees.
Alan Clarke
34   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:46:27

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I’m with McMoan on this one. We’ve got Moyes moaning about the fact he’s going demented at not being able to bring in any new signing. Then we’ve got a player who doesn’t want to play for us who City are offering way over his value for. It makes sense to sell and Moyes buy in players who want to play for us. Jags and Yobo are our best centre back pairing and senderos would be good cover whilst also giving Rodwell some experience and neville can also play there.

I’m also unsure why accepting Lescott’s transfer request would lead to every other player handing in a transfer request. None of our other players have been tapped up by City. Regardless of other players’ transfer request, if one of our players is tapped up by City they’ll most probably want to go. We currently do not have the resources to leave Lescott to rot in the reserves just to prove a point.
Steve Edwards
35   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:38:46

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Paul - They are all piggin mercenary! How do you think all these players from all over this country and the world managed to end up at Everton football club? If they are playing for the love of the game they should all be playing for there local football team, you know the one they supported when they were nippers. Its a job and like any job you want as much money as you can get to do it. I think its just plain daft to be complaining that Lescott is a mersenary... he’s an Aston Villa supporter for fucks sake. Everton don’t mean jack squat to him, they are just his employer and Man City will be his next employer, one who will pay him at least twice as much as he now gets.
Ciarán McGlone
36   Posted 12/08/2009 at 12:51:20

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Is there any chance people could keep to the issues being debated?

Tim,

You are of course entitled to you opinion..but I can’t remember posting anything that could or would give the general opinion that ’I don’t care for Moyes’ - I think he has his failures, but then again, he’s in the spotlight and gets paid handsomely for our right to critique his work.

As for your point that this could elicit a lanslide of transfer requests - I simply don’t think that’s true. This is a very unique situation - one very rich club want a specific player and are willing to offer him and us extensive cash for the privilege...I can’t see that arising with any of our other players. And anyway, while we have no money to compete with the big boys then we have to accept that we will be subject to these kind of things.

There’s also the other side of the coin regarding your suggestion - could prospective players see us as a club that does not allow players to move on and better themselves?..this whole scenario is not making us an attractive proposition - at all.

It’s not as simple as - ’it’s a matter of principle and we’re sticking by it’.
Steve Edwards
37   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:04:26

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It's crossed my mind that Steven Pienaar is currently negotiating a new contract with Everton while all this Lescott business is going on. Now I think he clearly fancies a move elsewhere, probably abroad by the noises he has been making, but can probably be persuaded to resign for us. On the other hand he maybe looking at the Lescott situation and thinking, "Fuck it, I’ll hang fire and run my current contract down. If I do decide to move on in the next couple of years and I’m tied to another contact that Moysey can be one stubborn bastard and I may miss out." Stubbornness can be a double edged sword in this situation.
Geoff Edwards
38   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:11:20

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Anyone who claims Lescott lacks ambition and is just a mercenary (looking at you Paul Joy) are ridiculously biased or short-sighted. Or both. This summer City have spent millions on proven international players. Everton have signed 1 player on loan and some kids. Do you think Lescott really cares about missing out on one Europa League campaign? If anything he’ll see it as positive that he won’t have to play so many games in a WC year. The year after that, Man City will be back there anyway.
Dave Wilson
39   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:12:45

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Is it a one-off though? What if Jagielka comes back as good as ever? They have already demonstrated they are a terrific partnership — why wouldn't City want him too?

After that, we only have to sell Rodwell and Arteta and who knows? We may even be able to purchase a new stadium.

Just a cheap one,mind in probably in the middle of nowhere... Knowlsley?

Richard Osborne
40   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:16:54

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The trouble with most people on this site, is that everything has to be black and white. ’Lescott should be sold/ Shouldn’t be sold.’ ’Moyes is crap/ Moyes is God.’ Etc , etc.

Maybe, just maybe, there are a few shades of grey in this undoubted mess.

Firstly regarding Lescott, maybe Lescott has handed in a transfer request after having his head turned by a treble-your-wages deal. I can’t criticise him for that. Maybe he is pretty confused at the moment, after all, this is pretty much the first time he has been such a high-profile footballer.

Maybe he has been poorly guided by a greedy agent. Maybe he has had the fucking vultures at the press and at Man City itself contacting him directly filling his head with dreams of Championships, medals and cups.

Maybe David Moyes has realised this and is currently trying to do what is right for his player. Maybe Moyes feels Lescott’s career with truly be better served by staying at Everton and wants some time to show him this. Maybe Moyes is doing his job as Everton Manager better than some of you think.

Secondly regarding transfers, maybe David Moyes is trying to find the right kind of attitudes, as well as attributes in his players. Maybe he isn’t prepared to settle for second-rate mercenaries or over-the-hill has-beens.

Maybe he operates with a little more integrity than messers Redknapp and Hughes.

Maybe he sees who other teams have signed and thought (like me) ’how fucking much for Stuart Downing?’

Maybe Moyes has the club’s long term future in mind before he lashes millions at a players none of us have ever heard of.

Maybe Moyes has a few tricks up his sleeve which will surprise us all. Maybe Moyes is doing a better job than some of you think.

Maybe, just maybe.
Ciarán McGlone
41   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:29:20

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Dave,

Making a stand isn’t going to prevent this sort of thing happening in future...it’s football, and it’s here to stay whether we like it or not. Unfortunately it’s likely that there’ll alwasy be other teams that are more attractive than us!

ALL we can do is keep players on long contracts and push up the price.
Suzy Whitehead
42   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:28:01

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Alan,

I can tell you that Gary O’Niell is not the Middlesborough player Moyes first enquired about. I can tell you we have a poisitve enquiry about a loan deal for an existing premiership right back. I can tell you we have turned down bids for Osman and Yobo and have had a bid rejected for a Newcastle midfielder. We also were rejected in an approach for a shite midfielder.

I do not know of oversea’s posibilities - incoming or outgoing.

Suzy
Tony Marsh
43   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:26:10

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Cash in and take the money I say.A player who wants to leave is no good sulking around the place putting others in the doldrums with him.Selling Lescott does send out all the wrong signals but what else can we do when such large sums of money is being offered for JLO.

Kenwright has allowed the club to be run in to the ground and this is the price we must now pay.It wont end here either.The truth is Everton cant afford to pay the going rate in salaries any more due to BKs mis-management and its we the fans who get fucked over yetb again.

JLO is being offered 90k a week by a club who will no doubt smash in to the big 4pretty soon so dont blame him for wanting away.How do I know city will break the big 4 monopoly?
History in the PL tells us so thats why.
Who the fuck where Chelsea untill they got the Russin oil money??
A mickey mouse club smaller than City thats who and they got to the top
within 12 months of being loaded.

Nuthin we can do but weep lads.
Chris Jones
44   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:33:55

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Reading the comments here you have to ’smile’.

Poor DM is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t, and as always there’s people prepared to hurl all sorts of insults at him while he’s still working things out!

Whatever line DM follows someone on this site will brand him a clueless, stubborn moron for it. It’s a good job he’s paid so well if he has to be on the receiving end of bile from people supporting the same side.

DM will do what he thinks is best for the club. He’s the one best placed to judge all the issues. Let him get on with it.

Based on where we were when he arrived and where we are now, he’s doing the right things. Best of the rest in the Prem two years in succession, regular qualifiers for Europe and runners up in the FA Cup last season. Cut him some slack fellas!
Robert Treacy
45   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:47:15

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Ciaran

Like I've said before, if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all

Constant bashing people does no good.
Ciarán McGlone
46   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:49:50

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We rejected an offer for Osman?

Why wasn’t that on the official site...Kartworld must be raging.
Suzy Whitehead
47   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:53:26

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Ciaran,

The only rejected bids that go on the official site are for players we are ultimately prepared to sell. This is why Lescott went on immediately (£20mil for a good defender is excellent money and we all know it) and not for Saha (which has since come out for motivational purposes). Do you really think EFC (or any other club) announce all the offer they recieve for players - dont be so naive. So why do we choose to announce selected rejected bids? Answer the question which Alan Clarke always avoided - who was the last player we stated we had just rejected a bid for which we didn’t sell shortly after? Over to you naive boy.
Paul McCann
48   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:48:05

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Tony Marsh,

’Kenwright has allowed the club to be run in to the ground and this is the price we must now pay.It wont end here either.The truth is Everton cant afford to pay the going rate in salaries any more due to BKs mis-management and its we the fans who get fucked over yetb again’.

Thing is Tony, 80k isn’t the going rate for a good centre half. That’s the reason we’re not paying Lescott that. About 40k [Lescott’s reported wage] is the going rate, and even that is ridiculously inflated. I don’t begrudge the players getting the money, as long as ticket prices are reasonable [which they aren’t] and the clubs are living within their means. Kenwright is trying to keep his business afloat [and competitive], which seems to me to be an eminently sensible thing to do. Some of the shit that he comes out with does my head in, but you can’t blame him for not bankrupting the club. If there isn’t an investor out there [which given the thirty years of financial mismanagement which took place before Kenwright took over resulting in GP falling apart at the seams and the financial crisis etc. isn’t that surprising] what can he do?

If you keep your head while all those around you are losing theirs, pretty soon you’ll be the only one with a head left. Thinks Leeds. Football is eating itself.
Ciarán McGlone
49   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:09:13

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Robert,

Does that apply to mindless cliches as well?

Catch a fúkin grip..if you don’t like alternative opinion then go live on your own - up walton fuckin moutain.

I get personal abuse - which I do not respond to...and suddenly all sorts of muppets crawl out of the woodwork.

As I said, Lets keep to the issues...that goes for you too Robert.
Kevin Gillen
50   Posted 12/08/2009 at 13:47:08

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I like to remain cheerily positive about Everton most of the time. I’m not that bothered by the lack of silverware as the last few seasons are ones in which I believe we have steadily progressed. We’ve also done it through sheer hard work and have done it with a degree of dignity and style. I really fear for football if money does become the be all and end all of your possibility of success. What about loyalty, teamwork, respect? I coach children’s football, these attributes hopefully turn young people into responsible adults. The whole sorry Lescott saga sickens me. Man City are taking the piss asking for Lescott for £15m. I applaud Moyes for sticking to his guns, it isn’t 12 months since this player signed a new contract significantly improving his salary to levels few if any of us can dream of. Sadly we will probably have to bow to the inevitable as this whole sorry saga will explode the moment Joleon has a pass go astray or if the result against Arsenal is anything less than a draw.
I am beginning to get annoyed about our position again though. Villa have strengthened significantly in the past few weeks and Jo apart we haven’t signed anyone nor is there any sign of our three injured stars returning any time soon. We are very short of defensive cover, goalkeeping cover and wide attacking midfielders. If history is anything to go by few if any of the speculative buys will work. Elstone, Kenwright get your finger out. Beye and Delph would have improved us and it seems that without selling Lescott we can’t even attract the likes of Elm or Senderos. The fans need some good news and quick!
Ciarán McGlone
51   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:09:52

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Naive?

That’s a new one.
Paul McCann
52   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:27:58

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Ciaran,

The offer for Ossie was from Kartworld. Want him to be some sore of roving ambassador.
Matthew Tait
53   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:15:37

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Suzy - interested in your sources for this (obviously in general terms, rather than name and rank!). Given the level of detail, I assume it’s not your mate Dave down the pub.

I completely agree the club doesn’t make every bid and every offer received public, though I would say there could be several tactical reasons they could choose to do so - e.g. they know it’s coming out anyway, they want to publicly convey a hands-off message.

That said, I agree Lescott is going at some point. I think most of what’s being said by the club is posturing. Sure we want to be ambitious and keep out best players, but more than £20m for Lescott is for me crazy money.

The only question for me is about timing - can we get any sort of premiership replacement soon enough, and would we make able to make use of any surplus to develop the rest of the squad in time for this season?

If Moyes knows he won’t be able to bring anyone in until January it’s hard to see him selling Lescott now, even if we manage to get Senderos in next week. If we had received a bid of £22m in June I would hope that the club would have bit City’s hand off.
Matthew Tait
54   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:34:55

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ahem - correction in para 3 above, that should read "keep our best players".

Despite appearances to the contrary, I’m not yet totally convinced the club has an active policy to "keep out best players"... ;o)
Daniel Marfany
55   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:30:06

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Suzy Whitehead for Chairperson - down with Ciaran McGlone!

Suzy, I really want to know how you know this stuff - but I realise it would be wrong for you to divulge your sources. Any more tasty tidbits for the rumour hungry fan? I love speculating...

Ciaran, let us indeed stick to the topic...er what is the topic again? Oh yeah Lescott. I think you are wrong to say that nobody wants him at the club, I certainly want him more than I want to have no Central defenders on Saturday, and more than any of the alternatives we have heard about. I also think some principles are a good thing, and I think its fairly obvious that you do too by the way you are carrying on, and in this case I agree with Moyes. He said nobody is leaving, and he is still saying the same thing. Aren’t you proud to have a manager that is standing up to the money men? Even if secretly Everton FC is a business and is trying to ensure that the price they eventually get for their man is a nice big fat one?

Moyes is no idiot and any idiot can see that.
Suzy Whitehead
56   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:41:02

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Mr Tait.

A common sense based, and articulate, response - thank you.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Moyes kept Lescott until next summer (this is founded only on a hunch) - i have said this all along. Lescott will be worth a lot less after the world cup than before it. Two comforting factors for when he does go; he will play his best football at EFC under David Moyes and no club will ever sell him for more money that we did.
St. Ledger from Preston was being discussed as a potential loan until Xmas but this was put to bed weeks ago.
Dave Wilson
57   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:40:01

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Ciarán
that was precisely my point, the more I think about it the more sceptical I get.

I’m not having this stance Moyse has made, Lescot is going, you know it, I know it and Moyse knows it
I fully expect this "over my dead body" routine to be repeated when the next big club come calling for one of our players.

The club will howl like fuck every time we sell a player, but will be secretly rubbing their hands as we get ever closer to reaching the cost of DK

Being built so we can buy new players ? Sorry but it’s becoming increasingly obvious that its the other way round.

Marshy might upsetting a lot of people at the moment, but who can seriously challenge his statement that BK is running this club into the ground
Dave Wilson
58   Posted 12/08/2009 at 14:54:38

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And those accusing Lescot of really bad timing, should think a bit more about what they are saying.
The timing is being dictated by the club and just like the Rooney deal this transfer will probably go through just before the deadline . . . leaving Kenwright no time at all to spend any of the 22 million on players

Something is beginning to smell very badly here
Ciarán McGlone
59   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:04:06

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I hope to hell you’re not right Dave...

For all this talk of principles, integrity and dignity...if that happened it would make a mockery of this whole drama..

I know Kenwright possesses none of those attributes...but I really can’t believe Moyes would be complicit in that scenario.
Paul Joy
60   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:00:58

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Steve Edwards

I am not complaining that Lescott is a mercenary I was stating it. - the context of my little contribution was aimed at those who refer to Joleon Lescott’s "ambition".

I am fully aware that the vast majority of modern day footballers are mercenary and loyalty in football is virtually non-existent - except amongst us fans!!

Especially Evertonians - once upon a time you would have classed City fans alongside us - but lets face it those similarities are gone. They are the new Chelsea and fans all over the country will grow to detest City too.
Ciarán McGlone
61   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:07:26

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Daniel,

Your position is commendable...and you entirely right about principles - but they only mean anything if they are applied consistently and even then they only make sense up to a point -but lets face it - our supporters will be booing Lescott come saturday...that’s a horrible situation for the whole team..and one that should be avoided at all costs.

In my opinion the principle was outweighed by the pragmatism of keeping the team happy - and that happened once he handed in a transfer..

Keeping a player in a team against their will cannot be good for that team. This differs wildly from the Gareth Barry transfer last year...as he never actually handed in a transfer request.

It’s not that I don’t want Lescott here because of a presonal distaste for him...I just think it’s not in the interests of the team.
Paul McCann
62   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:40:25

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Dave Wilson,

Marshy might upsetting a lot of people at the moment, but who can seriously challenge his statement that BK is running this club into the ground.

I’ll have a go if you like. BK it trying to do exactly the opposite of running the club into the ground, which if you think about it, won’t be much good for his pocket. Under his (and Moyes’s) stewardship, our leauge positions have been better than at any time since we last won the League. A cup semi and a cup final in the past two seasons.

He has consistently broken the club’s transfer record while keeping some sort of control on debt. We all know that there has to be a balance between team investment and financial control. He is a businessman, not a magician. Maybe you could tell me how he’s running the club into the ground?
Alan Clarke
63   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:40:54

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I always knew you knew stuff Suzy. I would like to express my utter devestation that Osman has not been sold.

I agree with what your saying about public bids and selling players but it was City who made the Lescott bid public not Everton. I’m now in full agreement with you, Suzy, about Lescott definitely going but I had said he wouldn’t be sold unless he submitted a transfer request, which he has now done.
Alan Clarke
64   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:53:12

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One other thing Suzy, if you’re in the know, why the fuck are we so skint? Is (like Doddy has been saying) money beeing ringfenced for Kirkby?

Why are we scratching around for loan signings and Newcastle players?
Ciarán McGlone
65   Posted 12/08/2009 at 15:54:30

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Paul,

Could you write that again without including Moyes work...or breaking transfer fees (which I think we can all agree is down to player sales the massive inflation in Sky money over the last few years)..

Perhaps you’d like to focus on the bit about debt control...and how he’s controlled it from £20-odd mill right up to £90mill..

Actually don’t bother — this thread's not about Kenwright...
Alan Clarke
66   Posted 12/08/2009 at 16:17:11

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Ciaran, you could add in why is this summer such an utter shambles with regards to transfers? This defence of Kenwright is not even a defence. All this bullshit about appointing Moyes and breaking the transfer reord. BK wanted to keep Smith not appoint Moyes. it was Smith who told BK to appoint Moyes. Even then I’d say it was a stroke of luck rather than genius that it’s worked in BK’s favour. As for breaking the transfer record, these are still paltry sums of money in premier league terms. Anyone with any common sense can see Kenwright does not have what it takes to run a PL club.
Chris Jones
67   Posted 12/08/2009 at 16:23:33

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"Marshy might upsetting a lot of people at the moment, but who can seriously challenge his statement that BK is running this club into the ground."

Me.

The objective evidence says otherwise. We’re NOW consistently ’best of the rest, have acquired players (i.e. Cahill, Lescott, Arteta) coveted by others, and regularly qualify for Europe. Yes, he’s really running us into the ground. What an utter bastard!

And as for Tony’s laughable comment to the effect that "...Everton can't afford to pay the going rate in salaries any more due to BKs mis-management ..."

Yeah, it’s BK’s fault that the Arabs chose Citeh, rather than a club in Serie A, La Liga or the Bundesliga to become the world’s richest, prepared to double or even treble players’ contracts. How in a month of Sunday league football can that be Kenwright’s fault? He is no more to blame for that than Abramovic’s arrival at Chelski — another event which caused a paradigm shift in English football.

It appears to me people will trot out any old tripe if it satisfies their lust to attack those in charge of our club.
Paul McCann
68   Posted 12/08/2009 at 16:50:08

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Ciaran,

I did say ’some sort of control on debt’ Everything’s relative, but when you compare our debt to Leeds, Newcastle, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City, it doesn’t look too bad.

Trouble is, it’s hard to keep a handle on spending when there are tens of thousands of people who want you to spend money, giving you all sorts of shit every day of the week.

Do you think BK is getting rich off the back of the club? The only way he’ll make money is buy selling a valuable asset — a successful club, which requires a successful team. I believe that’s what he’s trying to do is improve the team within the club’s financial constraints.

For me he’s not doing a bad job.
Kevin Hudson
69   Posted 12/08/2009 at 17:33:01

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Cliche McGlone,

Once again your hollow attempt at rational argument is clouded and flawed by your appetite for vendetta and one-upmanship.

You seem to think that a manager shouldn’t be allowed to manage!!! Exactly what IS his job,then? Are the players morally allowed to utilise the clubs for their own personal advancement, only to then discard them like a used johnny? Moyes is A COMPLETE IDIOT for doing his job is he?

You have no idea what is happening, so trust him to discharge the duties he was entrusted with-without assasinating his character, and claiming that his own ego is dictating club policy!!!

Please have the decency to actually read what I tell you, before firing off your blinkered rebuttal. I mentioned your pretentious ARTICLE, (about negativity or some crap) nothing to do with your POSTS. You can check that I actually partially retracted the savaging I gave to your terribly self-indulgent piece, and ultimately, went easy on you, certainly without any teeth-gnashing. But your vanity is telling...

You come on here, ten or twelve times a week, rip everyone, and get churlish when someone calls you out.

You’re the Robbie Savage of ToffeeWeb!!!

Don’t flatter yourself,and don’t get selective on me.
Ciarán McGlone
70   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:51:34

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’Once again, your hollow attempt at rational argument is clouded and flawed by your appetite and one-upmanship’
----------------------------------

Kevin,

It’s clear that you came after me. Do yourself a favour and give the personal stuff a rest. I’m embarrassed for you.
Colin Prendergast
71   Posted 12/08/2009 at 19:17:08

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Ciaran

Whilst I agree handing in a transfer request might not be good for the team, I can’t see how it differs so wildly from the Gareth Barry situation last year... So he never actually handed in a transfer request. But ’opening up’ to the Sunday rags, lambasting your manager and demanding to be allowed to join another club is some form of team bonding rallying call? More a case of not wanting to forego a slice of the transfer fee I would suggest.
Garry Martin
72   Posted 12/08/2009 at 22:28:31

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Why should DM allow a player to leave EFC under our current situation.
If anyone of these threads were the manager they would do exactly the same.
Come on! — we have Jags injured & Yobo off in January and, no cover. What would all these sell sell sell merchants have us do? Commit football suicide !!!
In DM we trust.
Robert Lam
73   Posted 13/08/2009 at 01:45:06

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Moyes is not letting Lescott go. Period. So far only Hughes shown interest but he can’t wait forever. With the cash he got he will get another higher calibre but more expensive defender. At the end of 3 years, Hughes will not be around to buy him out. The verdict; poor Lescott got 3 years of hard labour with Moyes. If he don’t buck up he will be a Championship player. Good move, Moyes.
Ciarán McGlone
74   Posted 13/08/2009 at 08:17:27

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Colin,

That’s a fair point - I’d forgotten about his little daliance with the media..

However, I’m firmly of the opinion - that we should sell now while the price is what it is, rather than hope for a year of consistent football from Joleon and no impact on the team.
Garry Martin
75   Posted 13/08/2009 at 08:47:37

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Have just read in the Daily Mirror (rumour or total bollocks of course) that shitey are now "demanding to see Jlo’s medical records" before any additional bids are made.
This is has been done for one of two reasons,
a) totally piss EFC off and save face with their supporters.
b) they really are fucking stupid.

I thought no 3rd bid was coming in !
DM is totally right in his statement that shitey are totally un professional.

In DM we trust.
Ciarán McGlone
76   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:13:22

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Or perhaps, just perhaps...it’s typical fabricated bollócks - from a paper who’s back pages are lifted straight from the internet.
Pablo Mc
77   Posted 13/08/2009 at 10:35:20

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Isn’t the simple fact of the matter that Joleon Lescott is trying to do what is best for Joleon Lescott, and David Moyes is trying to do what is best for Everton Football Club ? (Neither of which I have a problem with, and nor should anyone really ?)

From Lescott’s point of view (as has been said a million times) he’s not from the area so has no "long-term bond" with Everton and he has a chance of a big payday, doubling his wages for doing exactly the same job as he is currently doing, but 40 miles down the road.

From Moyes/Everton’s point of view, we simply can’t afford to lose him given :-
1) The paucity of our squad (Jags injured and Yobo away for January)
2) The timescales involved and availability of suitable replacements (unfortunately sticking a stack of £22m worth of £50 notes at centre back is no good to us !)
3) What we actually need to replace, i.e.
an excellent centre back who is also a very good left back who scores around 10 goals a season and is on a long term contract (I honestly think a lot of the "he’s not THAT good" comments are from people who’s view has been coloured by this saga - he’s been excellent for us other than the wobble the whole defence had at the start of last season)

Saturday will be difficult as he WILL unfortunately (but somewhat understandably) be booed but he HAS to play for us, at least until January, as he is all we’ve got.

Doubtless the move will probably happen at some point, but it really needs to be on OUR terms - not those of Manchester City or Joleon Lescott. Any transfer needs to be of BENEFIT to Everton or it simply shouldn’t happen - we hold all the cards on this one, and it seems to me that is all Moyes is doing - the best thing for Everton Football Club.
Suzy Whitehead
78   Posted 13/08/2009 at 10:53:16

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Alan,

I have no idea why we are so skint, nor am i in the know, in any way, regarding company finances.

I would guess it is because we are currently like a house on the market; The dry rot (Shandy Andy, Nuno etc) needs to be taken care of. The bills need to be an attractive proposition (our wage bill, and overall running costs, have not heightened). We must show evidence the house is in good order (our players (and manager), for the most part, are on lengthy(ish) contracts). We need to prove the property is saleable (we have reduced our debt and have record income) - albeit this isvery difficult with Newcastle FC on the same market - harsh but absolutley true.

In summary everything that has happened so far this summer has made the club more marketable - you may not think it but it has. Buying low risk potential is always attractive aqnd lets face we have to be trying to make ourselves more marketable.



Quite simply - we are trying to sell the football club. Buying two qulaity players for £30 million is not going to help us sell the business.

It will get worse before it gets better unfortunately.

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