A - Do you view Everton as a big club, whereby you accept from time to time that on more than one occasion a season they will take a huge pasting from the opposition?
B- Do you view Everton as no longer a big club, one where they accept from time to time that beatings on large scales will be dished out now and again.
Just my opinion and it is an opinion, I sense many fans on here that believe Everton are a huge club but are all to readily accept when the team capitulates they back the club with excuses.
My views are that top teams don’t take big beatings by other clubs, whether they be in England or from any other country. The ‘odd’ debacle then fair enough, but let’s be fair — Everton over the last five or six and years under Moyes have recorded all sorts of lows and unwanted statistics and have taken a fair share of beatings, which — for a ‘supposedly’ big club — is humiliating and embarrassing.
I stand by that Everton are not a big club, they once were but are not anymore, they don’t have the squad, the manager, the finances or the board to be at the top anymore.
The tannoys on match days, the giant screens and our chants all reminisce of the glory days of the 80s. IT’S HISTORY!! For crying out loud.
Why are we still holding on to something which surpassed 20+ years and yet believe the club is still big??!! I know opposition fans who say, "So fucking what, how many years ago was that????"... All we ever do is go on about our history!!
Where have we been since the Premier League began?? Where’s our history since then? One FA cup!
My point is you fall into either one of these categories :-
A) You view Everton still as a big club but do not defend the club when the club acts poorly as there is a standard of a ‘big’ club to maintain, therefore the batterings of recent years just won’t do hence the board/managers/players come under scrutiny.
B) You no longer see Everton as a big club, in which case mediocrity is something you're used to and you accept that’s the way things will always be at the club.
There cannot be supporters where they still regard the club as being big but then defend them when the errors and downfalls of the club are all too easily accepted by the fans and bide by the club’s excuses that humiliation and beatings are part of it. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You're one or the other.
Reading articles and mailbags there would appear to be many of these in-betweeners on ToffeeWeb. Far too many fans perceiving Everton to be big yet the service they are being provided with is down right poor but that will still make people defend the club…
So which is it: A or B?
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1 Posted 24/10/2009 at 05:55:55
50s — nothing to shout about but a team with a History.
60s — became School of Science, Moores money helped us become one of the bigger clubs, we won stuff.
70s —remained amongst the elite, yes big club.
80s — first 7 years, the Best in the league over biggest club by a mile, only a ban stopped us from becoming Euro kings.
90s —somewhere in here we died everything we lost our crown, Joe Royle brought fleeting glory but we were down and out in the hands of Johnson the clown.
00s — revival then resurrection but way behind the elite, only a 21st century Moores with big bucks can restore our elite status.
Some examples of BIG CLUBS (in the eyes of their supporters): Newcastle, Sunderland, Derby, Nottingham Forest, Villa, Leeds, and from their history those who would say they need to get back to where they belong... Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Norwich, Southampton.
Everton is a tough place to be if you ’lived’ the history, the ranters all have a point at times but beggars can’t be choosers, and currently we are beggars.
By the way thumpings come to all sorts of teams, didn’t Lpool Thump United 4-0 at Old Trafford last season, didn’t Arsenal murder Liverpool at Anfield? It’s not nice to see though I grant you that... so my conclusion is... Not a big club, maybe a sleeping Giant.
2 Posted 24/10/2009 at 07:45:26
Financially we are definitely not a big club.
Successwise, in my opinion, over the last 20 years we have not had enough to be classed as a big club.
Our attendance is not high enough for a big club. But how much of that is down to the ground?
So whilst my heart says we are a big club, my head says we are not.
3 Posted 24/10/2009 at 08:48:12
We haven’t slipped, we have stayed still whilst others like Man City, Villa, Spurs and even Sunderland this season have improved and overtaken us.
4 Posted 24/10/2009 at 08:42:07
Point is, if we continue to put up with this situation and it carries on as before, ie the last eight years, we only have ourselves to blame. I for one would make this Moyes's and Bullshit Billy's final chance.
When all our players are back, see how we fair, and if we're still shite, get rid of them both. And before anyone starts giving all the usual shite about money/ new manager? ... we're better under Moyes, we might be better than pre-Moyes but it's still not good enough. A bit like saying Neville's a better right-back than Hibbo; he might be, but neither are good enough.
That's the difference — how long a club's supporters put up with shite.
5 Posted 24/10/2009 at 10:29:12
6 Posted 24/10/2009 at 10:54:05
Tradition, history and fanatical fanbase = big club.
I remarked on seeing the 6,000 or so fans in Lisbon that the potential for this club is still huge if only the investment was there. But as each year passes, the potential diminishes. Tragic really...
7 Posted 24/10/2009 at 11:41:03
We are an average team that has been placed well in the last few seasons, that is all... but us fans that have actually seen success in the league and cups, it is harder to accept that we are no longer amongst the elite.
Historically we are OK but that fades into the background.
8 Posted 24/10/2009 at 11:48:05
By this measure we are a small club, however as I’ve stated before, why should an industry — any industry — have to rely on a sugar daddies to prop it up when that industry’s awash with cash. Something about Titanic and iceberg comes to mind...
9 Posted 24/10/2009 at 12:08:55
10 Posted 24/10/2009 at 12:15:11
But allied to that, and arguably more important, there seems to have been nobody at the club during the Seventies and Eighties who was looking at the medium-to-long term future of English football and planning for it.
In the last five to ten years, people have been doing that, but many fans don’t like the plans in place.
Whether you would or wouldn’t say we are a big club doesn’t matter — it’s just a form of words after all.
We are part of the furniture of English football, and that is not about to change. But, a more difficult question is whether the structural changes in English and European football in the last 15 years mean that Everton can never again enjoy the success we have had in the past.
11 Posted 24/10/2009 at 13:10:37
In the end, it is the supporters who buy merchandise, tickets to watch, and subscriptions to Sky, which finance the club and we can and must have our say. Rather than simply moan though we should perhaps have organised action such as petitions or some kind of action at the ground where we at least make our feelings known. In the end voting with our feet is better than the frustration that is inherent in watching modern day Everton.
In the longer term, Moyes has rescued us and taken us to a plateau which is perhaps as good as we can ever expect to be... but remember our Motto? Only the Best will Do.
We won’t progress with the present board, I’m not sure that Moyes is ever a top Premier League manager and I don’t believe we have a squad capable of taking us further than the odd flukey 5th place. In the very worst case, we have the potential to be relegated. Do we become forever a small club or can we get back to our rightful place?
12 Posted 25/10/2009 at 00:14:11
"the history of Everton Football Club is the history of Association Football in Britain"
Tiocfaidh ár lá
13 Posted 25/10/2009 at 03:18:29
14 Posted 25/10/2009 at 10:52:32
We have the manager some of the players and soon maybe the ground but without big investment teams are just overtaking us at a scarey pace Birmingham could be the next and maybe Pompey if they get things sorted. No i dont want there investers but we do need somebody and very soon.
15 Posted 25/10/2009 at 13:23:48
All our peers, sky four, Spurs, Villa and of late City, although anathema to me, have opted for city based super stadia, either now or in the future, what we’ve opted for is an £80m facility that needs to be rammed in order to deliver, well, let’s hope we never find out.
Football is a dynamic business on and off the field, clubs have one eye on the future; if you take a quick look at the keioc website, www.keioc.net, you’ll see an article, the second in recent months, explaining the new regulations that will be coming into force over the next couple of seasons; this article contains extracts from a KMPG report; if gives you an insight into the forward thinking of other clubs and the mindset of ours. The possibility of an £80m stadium, on the balance sheet at £130m encouraging organisations or individuals to beat a path to our door is, in my opinion, preposterous; as preposterous as claiming Kirkby is the only show in town so we have to accept it. That’s like a guy in court for incest offering the defence that his sister was the only bird available!
Phil Bellis: Let’s hope it does fella, let’s hope it does.
16 Posted 25/10/2009 at 15:07:23
17 Posted 26/10/2009 at 09:33:57
18 Posted 26/10/2009 at 23:04:04
Everton has produced a whole host of experts, £4,000,000 worth I’m told, and one by one, property, transport and the stadium expert who keeps a straight face whilst he asks you to believe steel, concrete and labour cost four times more in Walton as they do in Kirkby.
With reference to your little act of petulance at the end — people far more qualified – I remember you now — didn’t you actually support the stadium in Kirkby and believe the clever people in Everton knew what they’re doing?
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