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Who next...?

By Matthew Lovekin :  24/10/2009 :  Comments (21) :
I know that this has been mentioned several times before, but due to unsatisfactory and unrealistic answers and downright criticism, I would like to ask my fellow supporters again.

In all honesty, I have been a big supporter of Moyes for a long time now. However, as usual on this site, a few bad results and people are calling for Moyes to be sacked or to quit. Results wise, Moyes has undoubtedly improved this football club. He has taken us from a consistent relegation battling team to a consistent top 6 side in the most difficult league in the world. Anyone who disagrees with this, please try to be honest and look at the final league tables over the last few years, this is a fact.

We have also had two Wembley appearances with a semi-final and final in the FA Cup as a bonus and regular trips onto the continent. Again, this is a fact. Results wise, we are a lot better off than we have been for a long time. All this has been achieved on a relative shoestring compared not just to the top 4, but also the likes of Man City, Villa, Spurs, Sunderland and even Pompey to name a few.

However the harsh fact is, as mentioned, the PL is so difficult now with not just many of the best players in the world, but perhaps more importantly (as the CL shows) the best managers in the world. Therefore, just to stand a chance of winning a trophy in this country, you have to be one of the best managers in the world.

For all the good Moyes has done, I don't rate him in the same league as Ferguson, Mourinho, Hiddink, Wenger, etc due to his tactical knowledge. In the PL there is no margin for error if you want to be successful, and Moyes just falls short.

The thing that has really made me start to question Moyes now though is his inability to get a football team doing just that: playing football. You can't compensate for the amount of injuries we have had, but why have we always had so little creative players at the club?

After seven years, why has Moyes not bought more creative players, so that when one is injured, we have no plan B? Arteta has been our only real creative player for years now, but since he has been out we have struggled to create and score goals. Pienaar has upped his game since Arteta's injury but if the opposition know where your only source of goals are going to come from, they simply nullify that one source.

With Pienaar injured as well, we are simply a workmanlike side which is not good enough against quality opposition. For about three games we had Pienaar and Bily on either wing and (without checking the stats) we scored about 12 goals, because we could attack down both wings and spread the play. We need a Plan B and even Plan C when everyone in Plan A is injured.

The defence and attack are ok, but there is nothing in the middle of the park to create and change things; we are one dimensional. Whatever happened to the possibilities of Moutinho or Defour?

Benfica had at least three quality creative players against us and we got overrun and outclassed. Why has Moyes only just signed his first winger at the club in over seven years? Even if the likes of Kightly, Duff, McGeady, etc aren't the quality he wants, it gives us other options to change the play.

Now the hard work falls on Kenwright's desk and this is the question I want to ask my fellow supporters please: Do you take results with poor performances, knowing that we can't carry on 'punching above our weight' for much longer with more billionaire owners coming into the game, and leave it until it is too late with bigger clubs coming in for the likes of Rodwell and Arteta if results get worse?

Or should Kenwright (or Moyes) bite the bullet and get someone in who can make the step up and play good football?

After all, why won't Mourinho, Hiddink, Mancini, etc come to Goodison? Well a) we have a run-down stadium; b) we have no players to play good football; and c) we have no money to buy players. So that rules out all the world-class managers and the likes of Curbishley, Coppell, Allardyce, Pardew, O'Leary, etc, etc are surely worse than Moyes, at least Moyes gets results, doesn't he?

In summary, we are stuck with what we have got for the forseeable future. We have gone as far as we can go, but one roll of the dice and we could end up even worse. Therefore, does anyone know of a world class manager in the lower leagues that is willing to take charge of a stagnated football club and lead us to glory that all our fans crave so much?

Reader Comments

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Ben Jones
1   Posted 24/10/2009 at 17:05:26

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Nobody. That’s my answer. I admit Moyes is way behind the top managers in tactics, but he’s better than most in man management, transfers etc. He does have his strengths and weaknesses like any manager. We have bought Billy as a creative player, but needs to find his feet in the league. And we’ve bought players like Davies and Van der Meyde as well, but just simpy haven’t worked out.

But unless we have investment, we are not going to get a better manager. The only choice is to go foreign, but that would be risk, where Moyes has experience in the Prem, and gets results. And do not forget, he stil has many years left in him, he’s still learning therefore can still adjust his tactics.

By the way in terms of football, and the way we play it though, we always play crap football when our creative players are injured, and we are unlucky enough to maybe have our 3 most creative players injured for Saturday. Once they’re back, we almost play Arsenal esque football, and this is a fact, where we have had fantastic spells in the last two seasons.

What frustrates me about Moyes’ tactics is his subsitutions, and his negativr 4-5-1 when we are at home.

But like you said, we are only going to get a Curbishley, Pardew, Coppell type manager if Moyes gets sacked... we will just go straight to mid-table if we get them. Stick with Moyes I say!
Martin Mason
2   Posted 24/10/2009 at 17:14:04

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Mr Moyes is a good honest hard working man who is perfect for lower premiership sides. He has grossly overachieved at Everton mainly via negative tactics and the incredible goal scoring contributions of Cahill and Lescott with goals that we can never consistently achieve via our mainstream strikers. He is totally one dimensional and inflexible though and he has no solutions for goals now that the Cahil well is dry and Lescott has gone. The injuries have been bad but perhaps they have also shown that our squad is nowhere near as strong as we believe and what can I say about buying 2 players who are cup tied one of whom was very premium price for very little real ability. What I see now is an emperor with no clothes and a club going nowhere and who are no better that the relegation candidates. I could go on about E15mm for a journeyman midfielder and the magic transfer dealings look anything but that. If we are happy with footballing mediocrity and not being relegated then Davy is the man for the job but if we want to watch football or break into the top tier he is a busted flush. I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong when the full squad is fit but fear for the worst.

The posters who say that we’ll get Curbishley or Coppell and more mediocrity are correct but f*ck me anything would be better as long as they could produce football.

I have no answers btw but I feel better having a rant about it.:-)
Ajay Gopal
3   Posted 24/10/2009 at 17:49:46

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Fair comments, Matthew. However, the risks of replacing Moyes are far greater than the hopeful expectation that a new manager will actually be (a) able to improve our position and (b) play attractive football. Newcastle (Allardyce) and Charlton (Curbishley) are examples that spring to mind of clubs/supporters who thought they had outgrown their manager.

I would prefer to wait for another year — let Moyes have the luxury of having an injury-free (OK, 90% at least) squad, and then let us see what Moyes can achieve.

One manager I have been really impressed with and would like to see IF Moyes leaves would be Robert Martinez . A continental manager with good English experience from the lower leagues, and doing a very competent job at Wigan. I think he is headed for the big league soon.

Anyway, this is all hypothetical, because I don’t think Kenwright will ever drop Moyes in the foreseeable future.
Keith Glazzard
4   Posted 24/10/2009 at 20:33:08

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The question of the succession will only come about if we (a) go into crisis or (b) are bought by a hobbyist billionaire. The (c) possibilty of attracting an ’investor’ who wants to make money out of the club seems very remote.

The billionaires wouldn’t necessarily get rid of Moyes. When Man City’s ownership passed from ex-Thai Prime Minister Shinawatra to the Abu Dhabi United Group for Development and Investment they kept on Mark Hughes as manager. They told him who his players would be of course (he must have put in a special bit of arse licking to get Lescott - we should have held out for £30m - it was probably in petty cash).

Crisis then. Wolves 1 Villa 1. Spurs 0 Stoke 1.

The world turns, things change, keep up.

Dennis Stevens
5   Posted 24/10/2009 at 21:18:16

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It’s pointless to speculate as to Moyes’s possible successor. There is no prospect of him leaving in the short to medium term. We cannot predict the situation at the club when he does eventually leave, nor can we predict who is likely to be offered the job, or the conditions of that offer. However, if the Board at that time find the man they want & can offer him the right deal, I don’t believe the squad they inherit (assuming Moyes continues his management of the squad as he has to date) will be incapable of playing football, nor do I think the current stadium would be a deterrent. Any new manager would probably be more concerned about the financial support available & the ambition of the Board.
Nick Entwistle
6   Posted 24/10/2009 at 23:14:22

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I am and always have been 100% behind Moyes and do not see 5-0 at Benfica to raise this issue... COUGH HIDDINK COUGH...

IMWT
Matthew Lovekin
7   Posted 25/10/2009 at 08:13:08

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Ajay, thanks for the sensible and positive answer. Roberto Martinez of Wigan would be a good solution or even Roberto Di Matteo of West Brom. The main problem with these two is they are unproven at the top level, but then again so was Moyes. However Martinez and Di Matteo are both doing very well so far and getting their sides to play attractive football.

I still feel at the moment we are stuck in the middle with nowhere to go. Moyes has stabilised us as a consistent Premiership side. Even if we have a bad season (which we look like doing this year) we should still finish (hopefully) between 8th and 12th. A good season has seen us finish 4th. Kenwright literally can’t afford to take the financial risk of letting Moyes go. However, with Moyes in charge, beautiful football is unlikely and the trophy cabinet remaining empty.
Steve Pugh
8   Posted 25/10/2009 at 08:53:35

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Would Everton be able to pay off DM’s contract if they sacked him. He would be due a few million in compensation wouldn’t he?
Alan Clarke
9   Posted 25/10/2009 at 10:20:29

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You can only speculate and I’ve always said there’s not much point because Moyes has the safest job in football. That’s why we’ve no competitive edge. Moyes has his favourites and they know they’re safe in the team too. Without pressure on these guys we get performances like those against Wolves and Stoke.

To play Matthew’s game, I wouldn’t mind that Benfica manager to be honest. He’s assembled a good attacking side on less of a budget than Moyes. He’s called himself "the special 2" rating himself only behind Mourinho.
Colin Potter
10   Posted 25/10/2009 at 11:20:16

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Matthew,

you mention a lot of his faults and you still think he should stay. I don’t understand you, especially when you mention 2 managers who in my mind would not be any worse than Moyes, and with a different outlook on things could be a whole lot better. Alan Clarke has mention another manager who could do a whole lot better. I do agree with you about those managers you named, I personally wouldn’t have an englishman anywhere near Goodison Park.
Neil Quinn
11   Posted 25/10/2009 at 12:16:23

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I don’t think Ferguson, Hiddink or any of the "elite" managers could cope with an injury list the size of ours. Benitez can’t even cope when he’s missing his two golden boys.

As Ajay mentioned further up, let’s judge when he’s got a full squad to choose from.
Brian Waring
12   Posted 25/10/2009 at 12:12:40

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While it is obvious that Moyes has brought stability to us, and has assembled a good 1st eleven, his biggest problem is that he is tactically inept. It is one thing being negative against the so called top 4, but to set the team up like that against lower opposition is un-forgivable.

I just can’t ever see him ever changing his ways, it is always going to be the same. Set - up, not to concede, and then hope to nick one.

I live a few miles outside Reading now, and after hardly missing a home game since I moved down here, this season, I just couldn’t be arsed going. Thats how Moyes’s dour predictable football, along with the Kirkby fiasco,has got me feeling.
Phil Bellis
13   Posted 25/10/2009 at 13:44:47

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"the chairman of Everton in Ingerland wants to talk you about being coach"
"really? has he mentioned euros?"
"10 million a year plus tickets for ’Joseph’, anytime"
"mmmm....nah, not interested, they have a run-down stadium"

"I have the utmost respect for Everton, David Moyes, and their players, that’s why I love to play them – especially at Goodison Park, where the atmosphere is magnificent"
Jose Mourinho
Wes Burgin
14   Posted 25/10/2009 at 14:09:25

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If Moyes is so "tactically inept" as some have suggested how has he managed to get a limited Everton side to finish 5th two seasons running in the Premier League?

Playing 4-5-1 against lesser opposition is "unforgiveable". No its not I "forgive" him as it gets us results, time and time again.

If anyone is seriously using draws against Wolves and Stoke and a defeat to Benfica as a yardstick for Moyes achievements then you are being ridiculously unfair and short sighted. Likelihood is we will qualify for the next stage of Europa League AND if we get a result today against Bolton, Moyes yet again has done the right thing by the team.

Jay Woods
15   Posted 25/10/2009 at 16:32:35

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The reality is, for all the reasons flogged to death on here, we’re going nowhere fast... Apart from lower down the league.
Andy Crooks
16   Posted 25/10/2009 at 20:39:40

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As Alan Clarke said,David Moyes is going nowhere.However,if he was how about Roberto Mancini?
Michael Brooks
17   Posted 25/10/2009 at 22:12:52

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Let's all take a very deep breath, and relax. Moyes is not without fault but which manager isn’t? Everton would never be able to attract anyone close to Moyes’s abilities. Roberto Mancini? Come on, really? He would never join a club with no money and more importantly Moyes is better.

The answer is simple: Kenwright must stop beating around the bush and sell the club. He has done well but he has taken the club as far as he can.

Sell, Mr Kenwright, before you do more harm than good! Bye bye, Bill.

James Stewart
18   Posted 26/10/2009 at 00:46:18

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Steve is right assuming Kenwright was willing to sack Moyes there would be no way he could afford to. Moyes is one of the best paid managers in the league. This gets often OVERLOOKED!

So it just isn’t going to happen. I think it should however! I’ve also read a lot on here on various threads about there not being anyone else around etc etc or reeling off names of other hopeless managers like Coppell, Curbishley as an alternative to Moyes.

This is so short sighted! There are good managers all over the world who would jump at the chance to manage Everton. Don’t just look at the usual suspects there are many who could do a better job than Moyes.

Colin Potter
19   Posted 26/10/2009 at 09:53:13

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Michael Brooks, Kenwright has already done the harm to this club. Have you ever known any clubs fans to be divided like we are over kirkby?

James Stewart, good thinking, Robin. Never mind these out-of-work english managers, they couldn’t win a one-horse race.

Fran Mitchell
20   Posted 27/10/2009 at 13:47:09

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Generally I agree with your post. Moyes is the best of the rest. no other manager with a net spending of 0 per season would achieve European Football.

What I dont understand is in your post you say Moyes has failed to sign more than one creative player, the say well he’s also signed Pienaar and Bily, as well as having Osman in reserve too. That's four?

Then you criicise him for having no plan B? No plan B? I think in the last year Moyes has been through the alphabet with all the different injuries to different positions, with relative success.

People may want to compare us to Spurs, but Spurs spet £10M on Crouch, about the same on Defoe, £12M on Pavulchenko and £15M on Keane. Add to that, £12M on Palacios, £17M on Modric and god knows how much on their defence.

Villa spent £12M on Milner, £10M on Young, £8M on Delph, £8M on Davies, £5M on Sidwell, £8M on Warnock, £8M on Cuellar, £6M on Heskey, £12M on Downing, £8M on Reo-Coker, £6M on Dunne, £5M on Shorey...

Moyes isn't perfect of course, tactics are sometimes frustratingly negative but 90% of the time he does get it right and we do get results to give us a top-6 finish. What would Mourinho do at Everton? He needs £60+M per season net spends.

Thing is people want change for change’s sake. People get bored etc etc.

James Stewart
21   Posted 27/10/2009 at 20:16:51

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Fran you could quite easily say the same about us:

Bily £9m
Heitinga £6m
Distin £5.3m
Fellaini (who knows what that fee was but not cheap!)
Baines £6m
Yakubu £11m
Etc etc I could go on.
Spurs spend more for sure but I don’t you can say Villa do.
Plus you can't compare us to either at the moment as those sides can play passing football that is actually watchable.

My point being lets not pretend Moyes has had nothing to spend. It’s simply not true.

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