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He's Got To Go

By Lee Kidd :  25/11/2009 :  Comments (67) :
For some time I, like many Evertonians, have looked on this season hoping beyond hope that we'll kick into gear when some of the injury problems go away and we have our better players back.

However, that is a concession based on games against the Man Utd's, the Arsenals and the Chelseas of this world — or even the Villa and Tottenhams.

Not Hull. I can't make any excuse for David Moyes for being 3-0 down at half time against Hull.

If we won this 4-3 in the second half (I'm writing at half time), it wouldn't make any difference for me whatsoever. We have seen downtimes under Moyes before, but we've always had a fighting spirit despite our incompetency at times. We rarely take a hiding (the Arsenal result was very rare). But this season, we're getting played off the park repeatedly by supposedly lesser opposition.

They don't come much less than Hull. It doesn't matter if Arteta and Pienaar et al are absent — we're facing the like of Dean Marney for fuck's sake. We shouldn't be taking a hiding from any side containing Dean fucking Marney!

Moyes really, really has to walk. As Blues, a lot of us have laughed at the continued RS backing of the fat Spanish waiter. But in all honesty, we're the bigger tools for continuing to back Moyes. This is entirely his own team, his own players. And, frankly, a lot of them aren't good enough.

We can't even use the "they need time to gel" excuse given we brought in a measly three players in the summer.

Moyes has worked wonders at Everton — but he is slowly but surely dragging us back to the dark days with questionable tactical decisions, sub-par purchases and — dare I say it — he's lost the dressing room.

There's no freshness, no desire from the players. Everything is stale, dour and uninspiring. In short, everything reflects David Moyes' actual personality at the moment - and that isn't a good thing.

It's time for a new beginning — don't ask me who I'd bring in instead, as I simply don't know. But I do know that, at some point, "continuity" and "stability" in a clubs management turns into staleness. Let's rejuvenate Everton Football Club — starting with David Moyes and, hopefully, the eventual removal of "Blue Bill".

Reader Comments

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Alan Rooney
1   Posted 25/11/2009 at 17:18:43

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How can we be 3-0 down this early? Could Might Hull City be the new Benfica/Arsenal/Man U?

Moyes out now before its too late...

Paul Bassett
2   Posted 25/11/2009 at 17:19:26

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3-0 Down To Hull after half an hour.

Has he lost the players? Unless there is a miraculous recovery its time he goes. WE are like Liverpool as we cannot afford to get rid of him. Sunday could be the nail in one of their coffins

Injuries have been huge but they have brought into focus his inability to instil any type of footballing methodology into his squad.

He was innovative in 2004 with the use of the hitherto unheard of 4-5-1 that relied on defensive stability and a reliance on knicking the odd goal to claim the points. The goal difference that year says all you need to know.

The lesser teams in the Prem have followed suit and we have in real footballing terms gone backwards with a reliance on this one dimensional style of play.

We have not played at all this season.

With DK rejected the club is officially a shambles on and off the pitch.

The national media have to put us in focus and put pressure on their darlings Bill and Dave. It's a criminal state of affairs. Injuries don't gloss over these gargantuan cracks. End of Story

Wilson Tan
3   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:49:17

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I rather Bill goes than he goes first. Him going will just save Bill’s ass. Any manager that comes in will work within the same constraints and before long, it will be the same shit all over again. We are just going around in circles.
Andy Codling
4   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:52:59

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I'd respect Moyes if he had the balls to walk in protest, but no, Kenwright bought his silence with 70 grand a week.
Tommy Coleman
5   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:54:13

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He won’t walk or be sacked, too much money involved.

These really are dark days and i’m dreading Sunday.
Phil Rodgers
6   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:52:28

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I have lost count of how many embarrasments David Moyes Everton have made us endure. For all the highs there have been terrible lows. Then we lose to Hull. Hull! 3 nil down to Hull. It is astonishing. No level of injuries or lack of money can excuse the facts. We look a spent force.
Guy Hastings
7   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:50:34

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If Sky News had it tonight, BK and Moyes knew at least on Monday, it would certainly explain DM’s less than jolly demeanour on Sky News. Not even Phil Neville could have looked that pissed off by news of PN’s latest surgery. If a game against the Shite can’t raise the team’s abject performance then fuck knows what else will.
Kunal Desai
8   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:54:39

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This is a sinking ship and one which is sinking fast!!! Something now has to give. I very much doubt the long term injuries are really ’injuries’. They probably don’t want to come back and play for Moyes and neither do those that are on the pitch. Frankly their lost Moyes is lost and so am I.
Keith Glazzard
9   Posted 25/11/2009 at 21:59:39

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Espero que - in Spanish it means the same thing as waiting for and hoping for - half time at Hull gets as low as it goes.

Sunday is a different world.

The performance against United wasn’t good enough (you can play well and still lose 3-0, we didn’t and did). The first half tonight started well but fell apart. The second half has to be where it goes from here.

If not - Moyes will walk.
Ian Ankers
10   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:11:05

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I want Moyes to go now. Its just not fun being an Evertonian. Its absolute dire to watch even on the rare occasion we get a win! Its Moyes to blame for all of this! MOYES OUT

Hello relegation battle...I remember you. Oh what fun!
Andy Owens
11   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:10:45

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What a complete shambles. I am now at the point where I simply wont watch our games (out of pure frustration). DM has to do the right thing and resign, and before anyone replies with "who are we going to bring in" etc, I would like to put the name of Guus Hiddink into the mix. We cant knock this guys pedigree as a top manager and with Russia failing to qualify for the world cup, I think it it would be quite possible. Would like to hear your feed back. Cheers
Ste Boyle
12   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:14:17

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DONG DONG DONG
That my friends is the sound of the death knoll at this club and its nothing to do with Kirkby. This is the worst most demotivated football ive ever had the displeasure to see.
Paul Murphy
13   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:07:09

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Another in a long list of pathetic results under Moyes. He has got to go. All those who blame BK for this make me smile. How much did the team/squad cost tonight compared to Burnley or Hull? I am no fan of BK but come on, lads, it's Moyes who delivers the tactics and picks the team.

Poor cup runs, never winning against the bigger teams? It's Moyes. We need to now raise the pressure on him to go. All fans over the age of 30 have seen decent teams able to beat the Mancs etc home or away — where is the hope now?

I take my lad the match now and cringe, who should he idolise? Time for change and change quickly. Don't let injury lists fool anybody.

Enough, it's up to us to press for change, not blame BK and let moyes off the hook.

Paul McGinty
14   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:14:26

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Kunal..are you serious. the injuries aren’t really "injuries". Behave!!
A desperate loss we can all agree but Ian for one has a real short memory.
We are 13 games into this season after a 5tgh place finish and a cup final. You guys have short memories.

Only positive from today,,,I thought Pienaar had a good second half in the middle of the park and I hope he stays there, definitely until reinforcements come back. And for all the Cahill haters, this is a guy who does not hide on the field, particularly when things are going against us.
He took a battering tonight with no help from the ref, who to be honest gave us little until we were three down.
Anthony Bailey
15   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:12:11

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Im actually going to stick up for Moyes, even though I am very pissed off with him and the team right now.

Im sure you guys werent moaning sack Moyes when we finished 5th 2 seasons in a row. The ’negative’ 4-5-1 wasnt a problem for you when we were beating the likes of Sunderland 7-1, playing better football than Arsenal on at least 2 occassions (admittantly we still lost due to individual errors) and we should have even beaten Chelsea last season on 2 out of the 3 occassions if we could have put the ball in the net.

Moyes has bought in players to play his way and when they are all fit, they can play some great football. Pretty much every last one of our flair players has got injured, as well as our main defensive rock. You take that type of quality out of any team and they will struggle. Having said that we should be doing better than we are but that doesnt mean Moyes has lost the dressing room or crap like that. You just have to look at our second half performance today to see that. We are low on confidence and only winning football games will change that. No psychological man management tricks can help you when you are well and truly up against it, especially when you then go and concede early goals.

Its going to be a tough long season and a top half finish looks almost a struggle but if we sack Moyes it will only get worse in the long run. Lets face it even if Moyes does go he will only get replaced by Alan Irvine anyway.

We all have a right to be pissed off and unhappy with how things are going but sacking Moyes wont help. The second half showed that the balance is coming back with Pienaar in the side even if it was too late to change formation at half time.
Peter Moore
16   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:11:29

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I’m as depressed as everybody else but all those calling for Moyes to go are pudding heads.
I remember a desperately bad run 3 or 4 years ago, culminating in a defeat against a crap Bolton and it was the same then. The loudmouthed, short sighted numptys spark up and we’re all forced to listen to their depressing drivel. Moyes stayed and turned it around. Remind me where we’ve finished the last 3 years? Without exadurating I can’t remember ANY team, not just Everton, suffer this amount of injuries. That’s why we’re where we are. Not Moyes. Not Kenright. It really is that simple! INJURIES!
Trust me it will improve under Moyes, even if it means our season is successful purely by staying up.
I know you dont want to hear that but I say again. INJURIES!
Cue the pudding heads’ response
Kunal Desai
17   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:23:08

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Paul - Stop making excuses!!! Last is gone, its history, we didn’t even with the FA cup. This seasons troubles have been sounding out since the summer, players bought right till the end of the window and not enough of them. We all knew this was going to happen as the squad wasn’t big enough but did we do anything about it in the summer?? NO. We can’t pass, tackles or defend. Where are the basics you tell me? Moyes doesn’t seem the slightest bit interested and simply can motivate the players. Does it not seem a little coincidental that Arteta, Jagielka and Neville all scheduled to return by now ALL require further injury. All very strange me friend i’ve not know another club to have that sort of fate. Player power I think. Nil Sati Nisi Optimum..yeah right that fucking went out the window years ago!
Eric Day
18   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:36:46

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Now is the time for Kenwright to go. This summer after one of our most succesful seasons ever we had a net negative transfer spend. Why? Becasue Bill has no cash and is trying to keep money back for Kirkby the stadium he told us when we voted would cost Everton nothing. Now the Kirkby dream is up in smoke SELL SELL SELL the club Bill and get someone to wo woth money and vision who can a) Keep us up this season and b) Keep us in Liverpool
Ian Ankers
19   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:40:37

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I’m a pudding head, but MOYES TO GO!
Brian Waring
20   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:39:13

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2 pts from a possible 18 against Burnley, Fulham, Stoke, Wolves, Bolton and Hull, injuries or not, thats unacceptable. Even the games against Pompey, Wigan and West Ham we were lucky.
Kevin Fitzsimons
21   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:24:16

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OK so lets consider the alternatives.... MOYES OUT and nnnnn in?? WHO??
Not gonna happen by the weekend and bugger me ...we beat the RS
The MOCers (Moyes Out Campaigners) don’t respond as they are out on the piss.
Next up... AEK Athens ... Would you Adam and Eve it... a slender away win puts us i9n the driving seat in the ECup....MOCers mumble but check potential dates anyway....
Tottenham back in their box after scoring 9....
Chelsea... we wuz robbed again... but wasn’t it nice to see Drogba admit a dive to save Neville getting send off
BATE Borisov BRING ON THE RS.....
That’s football my dear friends.... and there aint nobody out there gonna give you the same Bangs per Buck as the Dour Scot.... COYB.....

Golden Vision
22   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:37:01

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Disgraceful. . . . . . . !!!!!!!!!!! no fight !!!!!!! . . . we are taking strides back after last season !!!!!! I know we have injuries but if the side we put out tonight is to lie down and go 3-0 down ( to Hull ) - some serious questions have to be answerted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . . .
Ciaran Armstrong
23   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:14:25

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IMWT?

I’ve read a few posts in the last few days and they called for DM to pick two up front - he did. But when you have two holding midfielders, an unfit Pienaar and an out of position (and out of sorts) Cahill, is there much point?

Man Utd made eight changes to their line-up tonight to blood their new stars and give the reserves a run out... while we are down to the bare bones.
We have loads of injuries, but our back five is almost as good as we have. We still conceded three goals - against HULL!

I know ’there are no easy games’ and every team in the Prem can have their day... but Jesus, we beat them 4-0 recently!

I’d like to see what effect a new owner, some cash and a positive future has on Moyes and the squad... because I know what it would do for the fans.
At least an official NO vote tomorrow will be a start, a silver lining on the cloud that has hung over us all this season.
Ian Ankers
24   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:41:15

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I know we’ve got INJURIES, but this is Moyes SQUAD, note SQUAD and therein lies the problem. I’m sure we will improve when Arteta and Jags return, they are massive losses, but its the sheer lack of depth and variable options that is the problem and that isn’t a money thing.

JO - a flop, thank god we can give him back in the summer.
HEIGHTINGA - Ok I guess if your feeling generous, but hardly an Arteta stand in.
FELLIANI - Where exactly is this guy meant to be playing and what purpose is he serving. 3 or 4 million I’d say ok, but this is our record signing.
DISTIN - Whatever you think, the defensive shambles speaks for itself. Collectively poor since Lescott jumped the sinking ship.

I could go on but we’ve heard it all before. The fact is Yes we are missing important players through injury and I would readily use that as an excuse for losing at old trafford or stamford bridge, but the points we’ve dropped against Stoke, Burnley, Hull, Wolves etc I don’t believe we have any excuse! Moyes has got it wrong both tactically and in the transfer market and we are now suffering because of that. There is no fighting spirit, the players look like they’ve already been beaten before they cross the white line. No one wants the ball, no one wants to know. Its an absolute mess and awful to watch. I simply cannot and will not defend any man at the helm of this ship at the moment.
Paul Henshaw
25   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:53:31

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Oh fucking dear...dear oh fucking dear...
Possibly THE worst 45 minutes of football EVER that i’ve ever witnessed. Passing-NONE
Skill-NIL
Defending-NON EXISTANT
Not one shot on target in the first half is piss poor against a piss poor Championship side.
Three goals down and you’re looking for a bit of inspiration from the bench and what do we get? The main man/tactician/motivator/coach sitting there with a face like thunder! Where’s the encouragement?!
Taxi!
Timmy Mongiat
26   Posted 25/11/2009 at 22:57:42

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Look at the injuries and suspensions again tonight.. we are missing a team of players. Moyes has done so much for us, these injuries cant be helped, its one of those occurances that afflict a side once in a blue moon and we just have to ride it out until players return. You people need to get your head out of the clouds and consider two things 1) we dont have the money of the top four, spurs, villa, man city, sunderland. The fact we have finished so high over recent seasons is an incredible achievement.
2) We’ve the worse injury situation the prem has seen in years.
We’ve lost to Hull. No one is happy about it, but we had no Billy, no Neville, No Arteta, No Fellaini, No osman from the midfield alone. Pienarr was back, but is clearly nowhere near match fit. Do you generally feel that Moyes has become a bad manager since last season? are you actually stupid enough to think that Moyes is to blame instead our injury situation? If any team in the premiership lost most of their best midfielders, if they lost their best defender, if they lost all manner of squad players, they would be in a same if not a worse position than us. Look at how liverpool suffer when they are without gerrard or torres? Look at Manchester united’s performance tonight when they rest a few of their players. We are simply victims of a terrible injury situation, that is a fact. You can moan and scream and wish we were challenging for a top four spot but its not going to happen. We need to be patient and support a manager who is suffering as we are, and a manager that has performed wonders for us.
Andy Owens
27   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:04:15

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Kevin Fitzsimons, as i have stated previously, I would be looking very very seriously at making Guus Hiddink an offer he would be hard pressed to say no to. I know not all of you are going to agree with me but what do we have to lose. I appreciate this could only happen if DM resigns.
Jack Francis
28   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:04:59

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Paul Mcginty your spot on mate. Kunal your talking through your arse! Look at the injuries there all influential players with long term problems ffs!
There are a few people who need to look in the mirror at themselves and say im not up to the job!!!!
IM TALKING ABOUT THE BOARD THEY NEED TO RESIGN THE EFFIN LOT OF THEM
Dave Wall
29   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:00:14

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Your Right , he has to go ,Where never gona win the league with Rafa at the Helm... oooooops sorry wrong web site , i thought i was on Koppite Web. Silly me, had a few beers,just got back from Hull ( exiled in Bradford). you lads must have been able to get good links on SOPCAST tonight? .Hey.I know its derby week, but please havent you got your own team to worry about? And if you are evertonians, well please just stop watching us on the web or pub.
COYB stuff the evil empire on Sunday.
Kevin Fitzsimons
30   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:11:37

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Guus Hiddink... of Course... but isn’t he the reason Russian football is at the forefront of world cup hysteria.... or am I thinking of some other failed manager
Phil Rodgers
31   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:12:52

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No excuses are valid. Injuries and suspenions aside. We should not be going 3 nil down to Hull in 30 minutes.
Ian Ankers
32   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:08:20

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Injuries aside, its the simple things that are really frustrating me at the moment.
No one wants the ball.
Throw ins: No movement, players looking at the floor hoping and praying the ball doesn’t come near them. Our throw ins usually end up with a Feliaini flick on to the opposition.
Many a time we have the ball in centre mid with half the team ahead of the ball just static. The ball ends up going back to Howard and HOOF!

The team just don’t seem to have any clue. First choice or not, they are all proffesional Premier league footballers that our manager believes have warranted a place in our squad, but most of them look out of there depth. A bit of fight would be nice. Even just a few players wanting the ball, wanting to try and make something happen. Players that can put there foot on the ball, look up and find a blue shirt. Players that off the ball are looking for space, wanting the ball, wanting to win!
Perhaps the odd set piece or situation where we can see that something has been worked upon on the training ground, or plain and simple just anything worth watching that warrants spending 500 pound on a season ticket, win, lose or draw, I just want to enjoy the odd Saturday or Sunday and come away from a match thinking "That was worth watching". This Sunday would be a fantastic place to start, but I won’t hold my breath.
Is that too much to ask for a premier league football team, however depleted?
Kunal Desai
33   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:20:47

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Injuries or not, there’s no excuses for a team which is still capable of getting results but get beat by the likes of Bolton, Hull and not forgetting the humiliating beatings we’ve taken this season. It’s simply not acceptable. Moyes buys the players and trains the players. They are his players!
He should know what their strengths weaknesses are, its his job to make players even better and influential players. If there are too many shit players in the squad then maybe he should have bought some better ’influential’ players with the Lescott money. I’m sorry but Arteta and Jagielka do not make up EFC.
Andy Owens
34   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:23:18

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Kevin, I do not think the words Failed and Manager belong in the same sentence when decsribing Guus Hiddink managerial career. Took South Korea to the Semi’s of 2002 world cup, beating Italy and spain in the process. Took Australia to the 2006 world cup getting knocked out to a dubious penalty decision and eventual winners. Took Russia to the semis of Euro 2008 etc etc etc. Failed manager my arse
Ciarán McGlone
35   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:26:46

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I cannot believe I sat through that turgid, trite and utterly predictable show of apathy..

Same old, same fucking old...

Playing a four man midfield with fuck all quality to compete...playing king Cahill at all, thinking Jo deserves a place on a football pitch, playing two defensive midfielders - one of whom I consider a limited right back...and playing the other defensive midfielder as a fuckin winger....

kenwright is a complete and utter waster...But Moyes cannot be absolved from responsibility for these basic mistakes - nor can mediocre players been blamed for obvious gaps in their talent...but they can certainly be blamed for not closing, down, finding space or passing a ball to a teammate- all fucking basics!

As for the good news..Kirkby, you can still go Bill....we won’t be there..

Bye bye.

Let the games commence.
Ciaran Armstrong
36   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:37:33

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Let’s not get carried away...

A win tonight would have meant us being able to leapfrog the rs into 7th place with a win at the weekend - not exactly disasterous.

Certainly we’ve been in worse positions and turned it around!

Ciarán McGlone
37   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:48:21

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oh great...a hypothetical win tonight (which we didn’t get) coupled with a hypothetical win on Sunday (which won’t happen) would possibly [honest to god] catapult us to being as shite as liverpool..

My god..thats cheered me up no end.

Some wit further up the page defended Moyes, calling those who criticised him ’puddingheads’...... personally I think anyone who defends the shite I witnessed tonight is a plain old fashioned - dickhead.
Alex Taylor
38   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:43:56

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I work for a paper, albeit not in a reporting role, but was lucky enough to assist one of my colleagues tonight in the press box.

After the game I got to sit in on the press conference and thought you’d be interested in what Moyes had to say...

He was incredibly cagey for the five minutes he was questioned but a couple of interesting questions were asked by the assembled reporters.

One reporter told Moyes he’d heard rumblings on Merseyside that he was about to walk.

This obviously put Moyes’ back up and the extremely prickly reply from Moyes was whether the reporter was based in Merseyside, to which the reporter told him ’no’.

Moyes then turned it back on him and demanded to know who had told him this, before making it clear he wasn’t going to.

Of the performance, he simply said individuals had not performed, but didn’t say who. And that players weren’t running around enough.

When someone asked if he though we were relegation candidates, his simple reply was ’I don’t know’.

One guy asked about the Kirby decision and he refused to answer.

But my overall experience of Moyes was that he is a scary character to interview.

I got the feeling that the press were scared to ask him anything at all and that Moyes had his back up to discourage any probing questions about the game, Kirby or his future at the club.

Interstingly, Brown said he believed we’d be top ten by the end of the season...

Hope this is on interest to you all...
Brian Waring
39   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:56:26

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Or Ciaran, 4pts above relegation, with the shite, Chelsea and Spurs to come.
Rob Hollis
40   Posted 25/11/2009 at 23:55:52

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Gus Hiddink!!!!!!!!

Manager required for second rate club with no money. They used to be a name in the old days and have clung on to top flight status.

Now mentioned as a newspaper space filler or as easy meat for the top clubs. Produced the best player England has ever seen but he plays for Man United.

I am sure Gus woul be desperate to apply!
Andy Owens
41   Posted 26/11/2009 at 00:46:00

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Why not. We pose a huge challenge to any manager in that case. Maybe we should take out a ad with all those points mentioned. Typical negative comment is what I expect. Im sure he thought the same when taking on the Australia Job, or the South Korean job for that matter. Who knows,if you get your way we might be playing in the championship next season with no manager and a chairman who quite obviously does not gve a fuck about our club. Heres hoping hey!
Michael Parrington
42   Posted 26/11/2009 at 00:25:38

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Wow, what a load of rubbish we were this morning, whether we played better and got some goals in the second half is useless after a very poor performance in the first half.

It always hurts when we loose a game, but more distressing was the complete lack of commitment shown by many of the players in the first half, and seemingly the acceptance that they were just going to loose.

Even though the first half was a complete disgrace I would like to see how the team will perform when some more of the suspended and injured players come back to fitness. That will be when its fair to make an assessment on the state of the team.

I’m not sure what benefit a new manager would have, and it would be a massive risk to the club. I fear that if we got a new manager we might get some instant return, but would struggle after that especially if we didnt get more funding.

Rather than call for the managers head all the time look at the effectiveness of the support staff. Perhaps Moyes needs a new number 2. Someone who is very technical and tactical, who can bring some new ideas and inspiration to the game play without damaging the stable foundation that has been set by Moyes.
Pete Gunby
43   Posted 26/11/2009 at 00:58:13

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Not sure when the panic button should be pressed, but we must be close. Clearly, Moyes is not to blame for the injuries but, he is accountable for the 16 or 17 right backs he has signed to cover for said injuries. The lack of style, enterprise and tactics is definitely Moyes’ responsibility. We look like a side bereft of ideas, leadership and hope. We look like a team that has lost all confidence in the game plan and the game planner. Hailing Moyes’ past performances does not change our current state of affairs.
Ernie Baywood
44   Posted 26/11/2009 at 02:58:55

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It took me 5 minutes to see a problem against Hull.

4-4-2 with Pienaar wide left, Rodwell (?!) wide right, Heitinga just in front of the back four and one man playing in midfield - and he’s not exactly a midfielder.

Every ball that dropped fell to Hull, because they had the shape of a football team and a few busy characters to mop it up. Dean Marney won’t have had that space since he was a schoolboy. And even Marney can pass the thing when he’s got all the time in the world - he’s a professional footballer FFS!

Poor performances aside (Distin’s worst game by a country mile) it was the lack of effort that bothered me. Moyes couldn’t be bothered finding a way, the players continuosly passed the buck by bombing it long and hoping someone could take the game by its scruff.

We need freshening up. It could be Bily and Pienaar on the flanks. It could be a derby win to lift the team.

Or it could be a new manager. Nothing against Moyes but he’d better hope the first two turn our season around.
Ian Tunstead
45   Posted 26/11/2009 at 03:42:16

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Its far too early to be getting rid of anyone.
Dermot Ryan
46   Posted 26/11/2009 at 07:13:55

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I think it is too early to be talking about getting rid of anyone (and we have no control of that anyway), but I think it is perfectly obvious that a manager that has had success with a squad can stop being a successful manager with that squad. It is absurd to use Moyes’ success last season as a rebuttal for the team’s poor performance this year. Some obvious ways a previously successful manager can start failing: 1. He loses the confidence of his team: his tactics, his responses to challenges, to a changing environment, etc, no longer inspire confidence; 2. He stops believing he can control results: He starts fixating on excuses outside his control; 3. He can’t adjust to a changing environment: teams figure out how to break down his team and he can’t respond; 4. He gets complacent: His team is consistently humiliated and he doesn’t care. Moyes’ analysis after the game was deeply worrying: "I pick the team, so the responsibility lies with me." Maybe that’s just a football manager cliche, but I feel it reveals a certain fatalism on his part once the game kicks off. I would never think of Ferguson approaching a game that way. I want a manager who feels he can transform a game as it progresses. Even when his options are limited by injuries. This is an absolutely awful run. Conceding 3 goals to Hull in the first half has left our reputation as a team that is hard to beat in tatters.
Barry McHale
47   Posted 26/11/2009 at 07:56:32

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I can’t help but get the feeling that you’s would be happier with Walter Smith back.
Jonathan Tasker
48   Posted 26/11/2009 at 08:48:42

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Where to start?

A chairman that lies every time he opens his mouth.

A team that plays abysmal football.


Players that are very bad value for money.


Do we have anyone on the staff that knows how to treat injuries?In all the time that I have supported the club, we seem to have more injuries than any other team.


And ; get this; 5 said today that if we get through to to the piss poor Europa Legaue they won’t even show our matches, preferring to show Livershite instead.


It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Moyes walks out.
Bryan Douglas
49   Posted 26/11/2009 at 09:22:29

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Is this the eutopia some have promised?

Is this the ’progress’ we’ve been striving so hard to attain?

Moyes and Kenwright have gone I see - NOT

No change here, nothing to see, please move on by.........

Now, who does this remnd you of .... Gordon Brown maybe???
Bryan Douglas
50   Posted 26/11/2009 at 09:25:28

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"Put your sweet lips a little closer to the phone.....and tell that man, that’s there with you - HE’S GOTTA GO.........."

With thanks to Jim Reeves, football manager extraordinaire
James Lauwervine
51   Posted 26/11/2009 at 09:17:52

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Moyes has proved time and time again that he can turn things round when we have a bad set of results. He will do it again, we will finish in the top half, maybe even 5th again with a decent cup run. A year ago we were playing just as badly and in the same position and had a good season. When Arteta and Jags come back it will make a huge difference too. Confidence is low at the minute undoubtedly but everything can change in a couple of games.

I’ll probably get berated for being an optimist or a Moyes ’apologist’ (idiotic phrase), but the evidence is there. Backs to the wall we always come out fighting and Sunday is the perfect platform for Moyes to build a good run on.
Ciarán McGlone
52   Posted 26/11/2009 at 09:25:12

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By the way, I don’t think Moyes should go at all..

But I’m getting near to that point...How long does it take for a shite playerto be dropped..or how long can a manager keep playing people out of position until he realises his mistakes...and how long can the players fail to do the basics before he hammers them or drops them!

Moyes does not learn...however, I don’t want him to go for a couple of reasons - number one his financial support to get the players he wants has been non-existent, secondly he has key players out..and thirdly I’m hoping that he will eventually cop on to the fucking mistakes he’s making - and the mistakes he’s vicariously liable for from the players...

However, I can no and will not defend the utter shite that was on display last night...

I want all the players and Moyes fined until they fucking sort it out.

Absolutely pathetic tactics, selections, formations and playing.
Ron Haslam
53   Posted 26/11/2009 at 09:33:25

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Did’nt see the game last night just the goals on Sky. I am really concerned with Tim Howard’s ability to deal with long range shots. Surely it is basic goal keeping skills that tell you if you think that you can’t reach the ball with two hands then you go with one! Was it the Derby match last season where he did the same? On another note we have to stick with Moyes. I think under the financial constraints and the unusually difficult injury situation he can’t do much better. Managers get to much criticism when things go wrong and too much praise when things go roght. It’s down to the 11 players on the pitch and they were obviously not up for it last night.
Richard Dodd
54   Posted 26/11/2009 at 09:38:05

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So we suffer the worst injury crisis in history and Moyes must go!
How totally banal is the re-action of so many Evertonians to a losing streak?Don’t they remember how we’ve been here before only to hit a good patch and ascend the league into a European place?
By my reckoning we need only nine wins To BE SURE of holding on to Prem status.With only some of the stars back in action that will be a doddle-we’ll do a lot better than that.
OK, my pre-season forecast of Eighth may have been a trifle optimistic given the new millionairos on the block but top half is a nailed on certainty-we just may have to wait a few more weeks for the resurgence to get under way.
But get under way,it will.And deep down we all know that!
Nick West
55   Posted 26/11/2009 at 10:04:02

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Well said Mr Dodd

And I’m really glad I don’t have to look to the majority of people on this forum for a balanced, intelligent appraisal of a situation that really matters. Jesus, some of you lot have not only got memories like goldfish, but with all your bright ideas you’d have us in division 2 before we knew it

Lol McNally
56   Posted 26/11/2009 at 10:28:54

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So what are we saying we will come together when we have the injured players back,if that is the case, then the players on the pitch are not good enough and id make fellanie get his fucking hair cut,
Bryan Douglas
57   Posted 26/11/2009 at 11:02:56

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Welcome to the saintly, zealot like apologists for a Club on the brink.....

Can’t wait for those thunder clouds to start rolling by......

Nick West and Richard Dodd at a Comedy venue near you soon.....
Ciarán McGlone
58   Posted 26/11/2009 at 12:12:53

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Bryan,

Mr Reeves other classic...[in my clear derrangment]...would be more appropriate for the situation between Kenwright and Moyes....

’But you love me Daddy.....’

You can’t pick a team, and your in love with Cahill.....But you love me Daddy...

You think Jo can play, and you’d buy right backs all day...but you love me daddy....’
Dave Lynch
59   Posted 26/11/2009 at 12:49:10

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Sword of Damocles anyone.
Snip, snip, snip, snip ...............
James Cadwaladr
60   Posted 26/11/2009 at 13:03:30

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I want Alan Irvine back! either as manager or assistant!
Chris Butler
61   Posted 26/11/2009 at 13:33:53

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I think Moyes has given up to be honest. Really it was his fault for last nights debacle. He played four four two from the start. By his own admission Yakubu isn’t fully fit so why let him start. When we were 3 0 down at half time he takes the Yak off and plays four five one.

In my opnion we were always going to get chances against Hull and they proved how vulnerable they were. We were given 2 goals then rather than attack we just let Hull come at us. Tim Cahill yet again was invisible on the pitch. We could do nothing about the free kick. But to let a side like Hull get a 3 goal lead is unforgivable.

At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if you lose 4 2 or 3 2 you still don’t get anything. The stupidity of our in my eyes unexpirienced players knows no boundaries. The only players that are exempt of criticism are Louis Saha, Leighton Baines, and Tim Howard who give their all every match.

Moyes just seems to accept he’ll lose his best players in the transfer window and there nothing he can do about it. Another thing people are saying oh we did it last season. Well the difference is that we have harder games and we do not have a full team like last season.

Andy Codling
62   Posted 26/11/2009 at 13:49:35

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"By my reckoning we need only nine wins To BE SURE of holding on to Prem status"
Richard Dodd what planet are you orbiting.
Dont normally reduce myself to this but Doddy you are a deluded fucking arsehole, what will it take for the penny to drop.
Matthew Mackey
63   Posted 26/11/2009 at 13:35:45

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Lee, I totally understand your frustrations here. We are not having a good time of late. However, a knee jerk reaction in such circumstances may alleviate the emotional frustration, but it won’t achieve any long term improvement.

One line in your scrip that I would like to respond to. That line is;-

"….Not Hull. I can’t make any excuse for David Moyes for being 3-0 down at half time against Hull…..”

Well I can. It’s called “players”. Once those individuals cross that white line, the ball, quite literally, is in their court. The manager, at that point, can shout and scream and encourage as much as he likes, but if those well paid individuals who should be proud to wear the royal blue Jersey of Everton Football Club can’t be arsed to show some fukin fight then I blame them first and the manager second. If they can do it against the Villas and Uniteds and Tottenhams of this world then they should be taking responsibility for doing it against the Hull City’s of this world.

Moyes isn’t totally blameless, I accept that point, but lets remember, even when taking the blue tinted glasses off, we do have a fukin horrendous injury list at the moment to deal with and in parallel to that, the players who are available aren’t teenage pre-pubescent lads, they are seasoned professionals who are highly paid compared to most of us and thus should be giving more for the shirt without having to rely on the manager giving them a rocket up the arse at half time before doing what they are paid to do – perform!

On the positive side - My thinking is that they will be so friggin embarrassed at how crap they played last night that they will now go out on Sunday and get a better result than most of us believe they will. Watch this space!
Dave Worrall
64   Posted 26/11/2009 at 14:18:07

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May I suggest that a number of contributors to this thread should seek help and advice from Kneejerkers Anonymous. You know it makes sense.
Sean Keigher
65   Posted 26/11/2009 at 14:17:26

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2 games in a row where the players look like they couldn’t give a shit about the crest on their jersey. Overpaid nancies with no consideration for the hard working ordinary fan. Where the fuck is our refund ala Wigan last weekend???
2 hopes of beating Liverpool on Sun, Bob Hope and no hope and Bob Hope’s dead.
Moyes has gone into tactical meltdown and the noises he’s making are those of a manager who has run out of ideas.
2 Top 5 finishes and an FA Cup final appearance to this shite and the only noticable player to go is Lescott...where has it all gone wrong.
Injuries play a part but they are no excuse for not having pride in the jersey or at least proving to the fans that you’ll give it a go everytime you cross the white line.
Sunday’s result could sound the death knell for Moyes or give him breathing space bur one thing is for sure fans are losing patience and fast. Players, Board & Manager need a good kick us the ass before it’s too late.
Steve Higham
66   Posted 26/11/2009 at 15:07:22

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Went to Hull last night and could not believe what I saw in the first 30 mins.Hull were made to look like Barcelona and Everton like a Sunday league side.Okay we improved in the second half but we where only playing Hull !!The only plus point was the performance of Pienaar he worked tirelessly throughout the game and really came into his own when played in central midfield for last 30 mins.A lot of you have rightly criticised Distin whose confidence has totally gone but Yobo never passed the ball to a bue shirt all night and continually hoofed the ball forward all night. Still dont think Moyes should be sacked but if we dont start playing as a team and get back to basics we could be in for a very long season.
Jonathan Ashton
67   Posted 26/11/2009 at 23:24:03

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You can be very unhappy with how it’s going but not want to sack the manager. I’m not sure everyone has realized that!

Imagine if he DID go - then you’ll REALLY have something to complain about! lol

’d keep DM even if we got relegated, and we’re a long way from that! Because you know that, eventually, he’ll turn it around and we’ll do really well on limited cash again.

Whereas, if you fired him, and in came Curbishley or Allardyce or someone (a) we’d have a poor following year, as they rebuilt the team in their image and (b) then they’d be no better. What do you think, DM goes and Jose Mourinho will decides "I’ve always wanted to manage Everton, now’s my chance?"

Endless managerial awards... Dragging a team from endless flirtations with relegation (under various managers) by dint of hard work, organisation, personality and generally good buys into European football...

Even if I hate how it’s going and am NOT looking forward to the weekend - so what?

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