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More of the Same?

By Tony Marsh :  22/12/2009 :  Comments (81) :

I decided a few weeks ago to take a back seat for a while and not post. “Let's see what transpires in the coming weeks and hopefully there may be something positive to write about,” I thought... How wrong I was.

Like it or not, Everton are no better off now at the end of 2009 than they where when the Messiah first took over nearly eight years ago. Quite simply, we are going backwards faster than ever. I know it's not all the fault of David Moyes that we are now considered relegation fodder but this team belongs to Moyes and it's crafted in his image.

Please don't mention money either as Wolves, Burnley and Birmingham have just come up from the Championship and spent fuck all and they all look much better outfits than us — and that's hard for me to say and take.  Sunday's game v Brum was yet another match that left me puzzled, angry and lost for words once more. WTF's going on here?

4-5-1 at home against a team full of journey men when 4-4-2 earned us a cracking draw at Chelsea and 3 goals scored for good measure.  4-5-1 doesn't work without a pacey midfield FFS!  Even then, it struggles. Osman full 90 minutes when nowhere near fit and yet again making a fool of himself!?!  Vaughan given two minutes of injury time to do what exactly? At least give the kid a decent run-out,  say 15/20 minutes. At least let him get his boots muddy??

The brilliant Seamus Coleman overlooked again even though against Spurs he produced the best right back display seen at Everton since Gary Stevens wore the Blue shirt. Nice way to treat a lad who was flying and full of confidence... “I know, I will drop him,” thinks Moyes... FFS!!!

After 20 minutes, Alex Mcliesh told his players to let our back four have the ball and don't pressure them... they will twat it down-field to us anyway and we will get it back.  Pointless, useless football from the Blues.

It's getting worse week after week and it's only Dopey Evertonians who can't see it.  We are a complete and utter Laughing Stock.  Even the crap across the park took the piss a few weeks back and they are shite beyond belief.

What does my head in most of all is the excuses that are thrown around... and the “Let's wait until all the players are back" brigade. What fucking players are we on about here???

If you mean Arteta and Jags, forget about it  .Those two will make no meaningful contribution to this season and that's a fact. Even if they did get fit who is to say they will ever be the same again???  Is Yakubu the same now after his bad injury???  NO is the answer to that.

If we keep on waiting for players to come back it could all be over by then and the excuse will have worn thin, very thin.

I made a comment before and after the 6-1 drubbing at home to Arsenal that Moyes had lost the dressing room and I still believe this to be true.  Why else can a team that worked wonders last season be so un-interested and lacking in passion or fight this season?

No one gives a fuck anymore and who could blame them?  I know I wouldn't like to get caught up in the utter shite football we play and it's no wonder players are turning their backs on it.

I watched Moyes screaming at Saha on Sunday and thought, “Why should he listen to you, Davey?  What the fuck can you teach that lad?  Why would any of them want to listen to your and Round's bullshit?”

I reckon it's a serious case of players' revolt.  Maybe not in public but behind the scenes, they just don't like it. There are now rumours doing the rounds of a bust up with Piennar a few weeks back — and that wouldn't be the first would it?

Here is the difference between a Kopite and an Evertonian.

Kopites want Rafa gone now even though in 5 years he has a Champions League win and a runners up under his belt; FA Cup Winners 2006  and last season finished 2nd in the Premier League. Not bad really is it?

Meanwhile, Moyes has won fuck all, plays shocking football, and has taken us back to the grim days of Walter Smith — and guess what: WE LOVE THE MAN TO BITS!!!

Moyes will never get sacked here and that's just the way we like it... 8 more years coming up then. That's the difference.

We are the only fans in England who would put up with this crap for so long without so much as a murmour...  And that's the big worry: we love this shite and we will get even more of it in years to come.

Reader Comments

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Robert Johnson
1   Posted 22/12/2009 at 21:42:52

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Welcome back Tony, I've missed you.... Spot on again!!!
Ian Tunstead
2   Posted 22/12/2009 at 21:45:08

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I’ll tell you the difference between Liverpool and Everton in one word. GERRARD. It's nothing to do with Raffa or Moyes.

Liverpool were winning trophies before Rafa arrived, I think they won 5 the year or 2 before Raffa turned up. Liverpool have improved as Gerrard has improved, he has almost single-handedly carried that team to major finals.

The year they won the CL had nothing to do with Raffa. It was virtually Houllier’s team that was going out against Olympiacos when Gerrard pulled them out the shit. The FA Cup win is not called the Gerrard final for nothing either.

Meanwhile, Moyes takes on a relegation team with local lads such as Leon Osman and Tony Hibbert to depend on and is forced to sell his only real talent. Raffa talks complete bollocks, has no decency or integrity and behaves like a child, whereas Moyes has shown himself to be a class act in every way.
Peter Bourke
3   Posted 22/12/2009 at 21:53:01

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If you think Brum looked better than us on Sunday you must be blind. We totally dominated them. OK we stuffed up in the final third but we played some nice stuff and they barely got a look in all game. They may be higher on the ladder but that doesn’t mean they look better outfits. If you watched Sunday's game with no knowledge about the ladder, you would have thought we were much higher up than Brum.
Ray Roche
4   Posted 22/12/2009 at 22:20:14

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Tony, this is the first team that Moyes had to put out...

Simonsen, Pistone, Weir, Stubbs, Unsworth (Blomqvist 75), Hibbert, Carsley, Gemmill, Gravesen, Radzinski (Moore 45), Ferguson

Try and tell me that the present team, injured players included, is worse than that lot!

Chris Butler
5   Posted 22/12/2009 at 22:14:03

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I think that maybe Moyes is sick of not being able to buy decent players, for example, Aston Villa paying £16 million for Downing. Manchester City and their millions in Moyes's eyes are too hard to compete with. Could it just be that Moyes thinks he's taken us as far as we can go? Many people suggested he might be looking for a bigger job in the summer.

We seem to make things worse for ourselves all the time. Totally agree on the Vaughan bit — what was the point? Our attacks nearly always revolve round set pieces, long hoofs up the park, or a bit of magic from Pienaar or Baines.

I think we need to get somone with the capability of playing neat balls to the strikers rather than endless sidewards passing waiting for either Baines or Hibbert to cross the ball in without a target man. I don’t know how we haven’t been found out even I can see it as soon as Rodwell of Fellaini get the ball they pass it to Pienaar who waits before playing it to Baines occasionally getting support from Fellaini.

Remember we’ve had a pretty easy start to the season really that we should have got more points from. Moyes signed Jo who frankly didn’t impress last season at either City or Everton. Heitinga is starting to look at bit better but the other signings have been useless. Let's be honest Distin is a totally different player from Lescott as Distin doesn’t panic with the ball.

We’ve continually missed out of signings I believe we should have got. One such player is Lorik Cana who I think was a favourite with the Marseille fans during his time their. He was relatively cheap compared to Fellaini and a lot more expirienced.

I think we should go for a striker who's experienced and has a prolific goal scoring record in the Premier League. I think Robbie Keane would be perfect on loan as he isn’t in Harry's best books after their Christmas party escapades. Another player that wages would probably play a huge part in him not signing for Everton is Luca Toni, who will be released from his contract is January... I think he would be a good signing for us.

Kunal Desai
6   Posted 22/12/2009 at 22:57:29

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I’m pretty much in agreement with what Tony has written. For those who think Jags and Arteta are going to solve our problems when they return from injury, then think again. They’ll probably need around 10-12 games just to get any sort of match fitness back and get used to the pace of the league. It may not even be this season before they are fully fit.

I believe the alarm bells are ringing already, the warning signs are there. I don’t wanna hear about how well we’ve played for 20 minutes battering teams and playing decent football, it's not about that, it's about sticking the balls in the back of the net — by hook or by crook!

People keep going on about Saha’s goal not standing, well luck sometimes deserts you... just as it didn’t desert us against Chelsea, but to think that Joe Hart wasn’t called upon to make a single save thereafter is embarrassing.

Wasn’t there murmurings going around in the summer before Lescott left that his departure had created a divide amongst certain players?? I certainly wouldn’t put it past there being a divide in the camp.

Jay Woods
7   Posted 22/12/2009 at 23:18:24

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Players for the most part seem mostly detestable human beings with no sense of decency whatsoever. How else could they accept such huge wages and be so be lazy, apathetic or just pathetic, without the a- prefix. How can guys like that even begin to relate to the average man on the street?

But T Marsh is right (as usual). Moyes is responsible for this mess and this insane, long-proven-to-be-a-total-failure 4-5-1 negative tactic. The bleeding obvious is something he’s totally oblivious to.
John Andrews
8   Posted 22/12/2009 at 23:24:10

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I’m also in agreement with what Tony Marsh has written.

Ian, are you happy that we are in 15th/16th position in the Premier League and just two points ahead of the drop zone?

I also have to agree with Jay: how much longer are we going to persist with 4-5-1? It is a totally negative tactic and something that is beginning to get on my tits. In my opinion, the sooner Moyes goes the better... but this will not happen unfortunately.

Rob Hollis
9   Posted 22/12/2009 at 23:24:45

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Tony
I have agreed with you many times. I hate hoofball, was bloody livid after Wolves at home and have hated our tactics too often.

On Sunday I was driving for a round trip of 8.5 hours over the Pennines in the snow and it was murder. However, it was worth it. For twenty minutes we were sublime. Billy’s goal was worthy of George Best and our second (not given) was excellent. Even Tony at right back was sliding some great passes behind the Birmingham defence.

But it was confidence on Sunday. They did everything more than right, had a good goal disallowed and suddenly it was 1-1. The team deflated and the rest of the game was dull. Even then we had a good penalty not given. All they needed on Sunday were good decisions.

Sunday gave me the confidence to think we will be on the way back up soon. I hope I am right.

Pat Finegan
10   Posted 22/12/2009 at 23:08:02

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We have gotten a lot better with Moyes. We went from being relegation prone year in and year out and with the exception of this season, we have been doing well, even getting a top 4 finish. Is that because of Moyes? Maybe, Maybe not.

It’s not "getting worse every week", it’s getting better since the Hull game. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

As for Jags and Arteta. The fact of their absence has been costly. We were a better squad when they were playing. You can’t deny that and you can’t blame it on Moyes. Also, you can’t compare a knee injury to an Achilles. Two completely different injuries.

Moyes has lost the dressing room? What?! Maybe it’s true, I don’t know but I’m not going to make a claim like that with no facts to base it on. It would be a reasonable explanation but if all you’re going to base it on is that we’re not as good this year as we were last year then I can’t accept that as a reasonable claim. Ever wonder how total BS ends up in the paper? That’s how.

Maybe the team "doesn’t care". And if so, I don’t know why. But do you think that maybe there has been a hit to the morale from so many losses and bad draws? They don’t feel great about the season so far, I can tell you that for a fact. That can come across as apathy. It’s a much more reasonable assertion than to say that Moyes has "lost the dressing room".

Kopites want Rafa gone because has has done nothing with the finances allotted to him. Under Moyes we have overachieved based on our financial situation. Much of that, rightfully so or wrongfully, has been attributed to Moyes.

Not a totally bad article. Plenty of valid points. 4-5-1, why? I want to see Coleman in too. In fact, if I look at this cup as being half-full, this isn’t that bad of a post at-all.

Whatever the case, welcome back. COYB
Ciarán McGlone
11   Posted 22/12/2009 at 23:23:14

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So Tony,

You think a 4-5-1 can only be played with a pacey midfielder (new one to me), that Coleman would’ve made a difference on Saturday (actually I might agree with this... If Hibbert hadn’t been playing they Brum might have won) — and you also think that people love Moyes and put up with him without a murmur? (You’re kidding, right!)

Bit off the wall this one, Tony.
Kiern Moran
12   Posted 22/12/2009 at 23:56:51

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I don’t think I agree with a single word of that, sorry. Did you actually watch the Birmingham game Tony? Everton pretty much dominated against the form Premier League side while playing passing and flowing football. Far from getting worse every week, the team is clearly getting better, with 6 points to pick up over Christmas and then an easy cup game.
Andy Crooks
13   Posted 23/12/2009 at 00:02:09

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Pat, this is actually the second relegation battle we’ve had under Moyes. It’ seems to be the case that the best way for a player to enhance his reputation is to have a long-term injury. Jagielka is a good stopper.

In his absence he has become a cross between Brian Labone and Kevin Ratcliffe. Arteta, when he was, like many others, played out of position by the gormless Moyes, looked utter shite (he couldn’t hit a cross to save his life). Does anyone believe that the return of these two will turn our season around?

Confidence is vital and I feel that at the moment we are on the edge, another unfortunate loss and this could be the year it falls apart. How about some positive tactics from the coach?

Gavin Ramejkis
14   Posted 23/12/2009 at 00:10:56

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Kieran, did you watch the game? Up to Birmingham getting the equaliser, we were playing well but after that we were predictably shite and wouldn’t have scored if they were still playing now. The play switched to hoofing it aimlessly to Yakubu who simply has never and never will win a header against a tall centre half.

Saha lost his supply from midfield, Fellaini continued to win headers but they went to fresh air as no one came to collect them, Cahill was anonomous, Osman disappeared after he went out wide, Bily after his goal did fuck all for the rest of the game. Yes, I did go; season ticket in the Park End.

Ian Tunstead
15   Posted 23/12/2009 at 00:14:13

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John

No, I am not happy with the position we are in in the league, but I can see the reasons why we are there. Every team outside the top 4 will have a blip at some stage. Last year, Spurs had a blip, Villa had a blip for the last part of the season. That's football, it happens.

We had a big blip the season we finished 17th, but we managed to turn it around the next season by finishing 4th. Moyes hinted at the start of the season that he thought we would struggle when he said sometimes you have to take 1 step backwards to take 2 steps forwards.

What I believe he meant by this was that he was not going to splash out on a top draw player for big money. Instead he was going to give his younger players the chance to play and develop and hope the likes of Rodwell, Fellaini, Baxter and Coleman would rise to the challenge.

Unfortunately, these young players have had to play an battle in a side that has lost its best and most experienced players. On top of this, Coleman missed the start of the season to an infection, Fellaini started the season with a virus and Rodwell has had a groin problem, causing them to struggle for large parts of the season.

Everything has simply gone wrong all at once. In a game were matches are won and lost by the smallest margins, I believe the likes of Jags and Arteta being missing make a massive difference, even if not at their best, their presence and experience alone would be massive to the younger players.

You only have to look at the loss of a few players to a Man Utd team to see what the consequences can be.
Kevin Sparke
16   Posted 23/12/2009 at 00:19:54

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Yes Tony... To freely quote the great David Byrne (Talking Heads)... ’same as it ever was’

Your comparison between Everton and Liverpool supporters is what philosophers call a ’category error’ One manager has spent £250 million to achieve success, with the promise of more to come... the other has spent about 25p with the promise of the odd loan signing (Okay, a bit more than that... but not much more.)

Your ’facts’ come straight from the ’I made this one up Annual 2009’

But it is your disrespecting of your fellow supporters as ’dopey Evertonians' which forces me to discount any valid points you might make.

BTW are you still ’hoping we get beat?’

In short sir, your piece reminds me of a curry I had last week... not much of substance, little to digest and characterised by plenty of hot air coming out from the arse region.

For fucks sake Tony, say something new, or at least say the old shite better!
Ian Tunstead
17   Posted 23/12/2009 at 00:36:53

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Andy

I'm sure Arteta was our P:layer of the Season twice playing out wide?
James Stewart
18   Posted 23/12/2009 at 01:17:08

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Some valid points and some quite bizarre ones.

First of all, you're way off if you think Birmingham and some of the other teams you mentioned look better than us! I mean c’mon... do you really think that, really!?

You're spot on with Coleman though. It was the best display I have seen from an Everton right back... well ever since I have been watching Everton, and to drop him after that was an absolute disgrace.

Also, your point about Moyes screaming to Saha. I thought exactly the same thing!

I don’t think we have the players to play 4-4-2 at the moment so 4-5-1 is the way to go. We simply do not have a second striker who deserves to start. Yakubu is a waste of space at present and JV is just crap. That leaves Jo.... Think I’ll stick with Saha!

Jamie Crowley
19   Posted 23/12/2009 at 01:37:32

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Tony-
I didn’t even read the article. I need to run out this evening to get some stuff so the Fat Man can fall down the chimney. Trust I’ll read every single post and reaction in about 3-4 hours time.

Reason for the post? Glad to see you back.

Merry Christmas!

Robert Daniels
20   Posted 23/12/2009 at 01:49:43

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Tony Marsh, well said, sir — you're exactly spot on. In about six months, DM will decide to play young Coleman and then say he's ready now. Well, Davey he's ready now. We can see that... why can't you?

You're quite right, Mr Marsh, he's a prick that doesn't know a footballer if he fell over one. I would love for Moyesie to be our Bill Shanks, and when he came, I thought we had one of our own. The reality of it is he hasn't got a clue, which breaks my heart because I wanted him to be the one... You know, People's Club and all that.

Oh and, by the way, Bill, if you're reading this, you're the true twat: Kings Dock, DK etc, and he is your manager so fucking do something, like a vote of confidence, then get someone in who knows tactics. Slaven Bilic were are you?

Stewart Littler
21   Posted 23/12/2009 at 02:33:24

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Tony, I think most of us agree that we should be playing 4-4-2 at home to ANY team, never mind the likes of Birmingham. But touching on a few posts above, who would have partnered Saha? Jo was injured, Vaughan just back from injury and the Yak doesn’t deserve a start right now. People keep thinking Cahill is part of a 4-5-1 midfield, in fact, people keep thinking Cahill is a midfielder, and he’s not. He’s a forward, and played as such on Sunday.

Finally, I’m confused. You say that Birmingham, amongst others, look a better outfit than us. However, from my seat on Sunday, all I saw them do was hoof it long, and I think they had 2 attacks all game which came about from passing through the midfield. You have criticised the hoofball played under Moyes continually. So what was so gripping about Birmingham on Sunday which led you to this conclusion?

And to Gavin, again, whilst I will readily admit that the quality of our play in the final third was somewhat disappointing, particularly in the 2nd half, I urge you to rewatch the 2nd half, because we did not continually hoof the ball long. In fact, we were so particular in our build up play that supporters around me in the Street end were urging the ball to be pumped forward.

The move which ended with a brilliant turn and drilled cross from Fellaini leading to half hearted penalty shouts for handball came following about 20 consecutive passes, and was even commented upon on MotD2.

Pat Finegan
22   Posted 23/12/2009 at 03:01:10

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Andy, I’m aware that it is our second relegation battle. But the past 4 years we have finished 4th, 6th, 5th, 5th. We have undoubtedly improved under Moyes.

And I’m not saying that Arteta and Jags return will turn our season around. I’m saying that the absence of what they were before is killing us. Maybe their return will help, maybe it won’t, we don’t know. But Jags was our best defender and Arteta our best midfielder. Now they’re injured and, coincidentally, we are now in 14th.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
23   Posted 23/12/2009 at 03:50:24

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Pat, sorry to do this to you, but if I am to give any credence to what you write, then the least I would expect is for your to get the facts right.

Sadly, that’s not the case: we're 15th, not 14th. And you conveniently missed out Moyes’s failure to maintain top-half finishes when we finished 11th; we finished 4th in 2004 — 5½ years ago.
Eric Myles
24   Posted 23/12/2009 at 07:41:36

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And Pat, Jags and Arteta were out for most of last season, as were our strikers... And where did we finish then?
Andy Codling
25   Posted 23/12/2009 at 09:43:20

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Sorry state of affairs when our fans are happy with 20 minutes of decent football. No wonder Kenwright has cart blanch to do what the fuck he wants.
Ray Roche
26   Posted 23/12/2009 at 09:42:45

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Eric Myles

Jags was injured against City on April 25th and Arteta against Newcastle on February 22nd. Hardly constitutes "out for most of last season", does it?
Richard Dodd
27   Posted 23/12/2009 at 09:54:41

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It will surprise few of you to learn that I am still forecasting an eighth place finish — just as I was at the season’s opening. Then my local bookie gave me 5-2 against a precise placing; now it’s 7-2 so nothing much has changed. Hold the panic button, Tony — over half the seson to go!
Patty Beesley
28   Posted 23/12/2009 at 09:56:13

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And a Merry Christmas to you too Tony... god, you couldn’t resist putting the boot in could you.
Rob Dolby
29   Posted 23/12/2009 at 09:40:22

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Ok let's sack him and see where we end up. Let's say we bring in a young hungry manager who wants success and wants to play football like Arsenal. Does anyone know of such a person? Give him the same resources that Moyes has had to deal with and let's see what happens.

You don’t need a crystal ball to see that to just compete with mid-table mediocrity you need to spend the cash, nevermind gate-crash the Sky Big 4 party.

We have been treading water like most other clubs since the arrival of the Premier League, we have all had our expectations lowered to survival level — last year's carnival atmosphere against United in a semi-final proved as much.

I believe that Moyes has brought stability to the club whether you like it or not. I am also sure that the vast majority of other clubs in this country would want Moyes to become their manager.
Brian Noble
30   Posted 23/12/2009 at 10:57:48

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Hey, Doddy, where you getting those odds, old son? My man in Crosby was only offering evens in September on an 8th place forecast and has just told me the same as of today!
Kenny Lloyd
31   Posted 23/12/2009 at 11:06:48

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Why do a lot of us LOVE THE MAN TO BITS?? Maybe it’s because he’s took us away from the days of yearly relegation battles and managing to stay in the league on goal difference! You know... the good old days! Ha.

It might also have something to do with the fact that he has given us some respect back since the good old days mentioned above — the rest of the country think we have one of the best managers in the country in charge and are a good, talented team; sadly a lot of bluenoses are yet to be convinced.

Of course there have been blips along the way... progress doesn’t just happen in an upward curve. Ask Liverpool, they finished 4th, 3rd, 2nd under Houllier and then slipped back. If progress was steady then they’d be winning the league this year wouldn’t they after finishing runners up last season??

Moyes has also got rid of the old, past-it has-beens and given us one of the most talented young squads we’ve had. He’s worked wonders on virtually no meaningful transfer budget and yet has plucked diamonds out like Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Jagielka, Howard.

What about the cock-ups he’s made? Well, yes, there was Krøldrup, Beattie etc but he realised his mistakes fairly sharpish and got shut just as any other manager does. Is he perfect? No of course not but it seems people will use anything as a stick to beat him with. Very unfair IMO.

It’s been unfortunate that this / end of last season, a lot of our big players have been out through injury. A lot of flair went with Pienaar and Arteta, leadership and solidity went with Neville and Jagielka and pace and strength went with Yakubu and Anichebe. On top of this, options to change things and mix it up went with all of the above. It genuinely baffles me why no allowance seems to be made for these things.

Without the funds to buy replacements and bulk up the squad, the man is limited to what he can do. Do you not think he’d like to go out in January and stump up £9 mill for Upson or whoever? Of course he would but he can’t do it and has never really been in any position to do it throughout his reign... which by the way I hope continues for years!

People ask has he taken us as far as he can? I’d say he’s only just started! The second phase of his plans for Everton will only be realised and put in place once we get funds and/or a new stadium!

Yours - Moyes apologist / supporter / dopey blue!!
COYB
Sean McKenna
32   Posted 23/12/2009 at 11:25:40

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Welcome back, Tony Marsh.

I think Coleman should play all home games and Hibbert should play the away games, simple really.

Every manager lives and dies by their signings: in the first few years Moyes got quality, like Arteta, Jagielka, Pienaar, Lescott etc. These last few years he has bought badly, square pegs in round holes.

I did an article a year or so back about Cahill — is he or isn’t he! I suggested he should be sold, I got slated for it; I think he is our weakest link! If Cahill was sold that would mean Moyes would have to play 4-4-2 or put Pienaar in Cahill role... how much better would we be? A lot better!! Moyes always wants Cahill playing and this imbalances the whole team. £6 mill would do nicely... any takers?

Alan Clarke
33   Posted 23/12/2009 at 11:32:11

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If Moyes is so good, Kenny, why is he still at Everton?

Why does he stick around when he’s given such little financial support from his chairman?

Why did Man City not come in for him? Or Chelsea in the summer? Or Tottenham last year? Or Newcastle after Allardyce? Why was he not even linked with the Scotland job or Celtic job?

The reason is he’s shit and he knows he is and so does everyone else outside of Everton. Moyes has the safest job in football at Everton because knobheads like you Kenny still support him.
Kenny Lloyd
34   Posted 23/12/2009 at 11:40:14

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Ha Ha....knobhead....nice retort Alan - infant schools have all broken up for Chrismas now have they?

Why does he stick around? Maybe because he’s loyal, he’s not a quitter, has a good relationship with BK regardless of finance and wants the best for Everton. He’s probably not fickle and into knee-jerk reactions like you!

Man City had a manager and gave him time (Hear, hear!).

Chelsea went for a European Cup winner - fair enough plus do I sense some arrogance here Alan - you think we’re in the same league as Chelsea??? We’re not - get over it and yourself while you’re at it!

Linked with Celtic and the Scotland jobs??....I must have read different newspapers to you because he was linked in mine! But at the end of the day, I couldn’t give two fucks about other clubs — I’m more interested in Everton and for me, David Moyes is the best man for job.

Until of course, that man comes along who can play fantasy attacking 4-2-4 football with pacy goal scoring wingers, dominant Viera-esque central midfielder, can beat Wolves, Birmingham 5 nil at home etc….oh and can do it without spending any money!

Owen Coyle….come on down….oh no hang on, I meant…..George Burley come on down…..sorry wrong again…..Mike Walker come….no wrong again…..I guess I’ll need you to provide the name because I can’t think who he is!!

He’s that shit that he’s had Manager of the Year awards etc....whether you put any credence in them is irrelevant, he’s had them so he must have done something right...no??
James Boden
35   Posted 23/12/2009 at 11:54:10

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Tony good to hear from you again... unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons. This dickhead simply hasn’t got a clue. This calender year alone he has made so many baffling decisions it is literally out of control.

It was so obvious to anyone with a clue that Osman would be thrown back in straight away. Didn’t matter that he was a shambles against Bate. No! Because Leon is the greatest ever. Our lord himself said so.

Remember, this is the same manager who refused to drop anyone ever, even when all were fit despite how bad we were playing. Yakubu went what was it- 11 games or something without a goal before his injury but the stubborness and defiance of the great Davey insisted that he play every game.

Moyes has stuck by Osman for years despite what an embaressment he is. In his defence with Hibbert, the lad hasn’t played too bad this season, all things considered, but Osman is getting worse by the game. But are you suprised he is still picked every week?Moyes is fucking clueless!

To me, he summed it all up in the FA Cup Final. Ok, it was understandable why he would set up like that but, when that goal went in as early as it did, it was obvious there and then that Chelsea were shell-shocked and there for the taking. Did he change his plans? Who was I kidding? It was the most defensive display in the history of sport and it cost us big time! But what really insulted and offended me was when he took Saha off when we were losing. WHAT KIND OF FUCKING IDIOT DOES THAT?

But not to worry he will reign for a long time yet. His supporters are defiant in their praise. And who is his biggest fan of all — Bill Kenwright!

Moyes is in a win-win situation. If it goes well, he takes the credit... but if it goes tits up, he is innocent.

And for all those who are hoping for a takeover. NEWSFLASH! As long as Billy Kenwright is breathing on this earth he will be in charge. I gurantee it.

Tony Marsh
36   Posted 23/12/2009 at 12:07:48

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Let me state for the record so the likes of Kev Sparke and Co understand. I include myself and my pals and my family members who go the game when I say Dopey Evertonians

We are all as guilty as one another when it comes to accepting the dross-filled years we have come to know and love. We just suck it up and carry on supporting, regardless of how many times Kenwright or Moyes kick us in the balls.

Is this being loyal or dopey?? You tell me, Mr Sparke because you seem to have all the answers whenever I post. Then again living nearer to Scotland than you do Liverpool you've got your finger right on the pulse, haven't you mate?
Ray Burn
37   Posted 23/12/2009 at 12:09:11

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"Taken us back to the grim days of Walter Smith"

I’m of the opinion that he’s taken us well away from the grim days of Walter Smith.

Compared to the Wally era, this current ’relegation battle’ is positively mid-table comfort.

It is possible that Moyes has taken us as far as he can go and this season has undoubtedly been pure frustration thus far, but for the respect he’s restored to the club he deserves at least all of next season, with a fully fit squad (Yeah, that old chestnut), to see if he can move the club forward.

I reckon he can.
Ian Tunstead
38   Posted 23/12/2009 at 12:15:38

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One of the main gripes people seem to have with Moyes seems to be the issue of not playing Coleman. Let's get things into perspective... It was Moyes who signed the lad in the first place! He probabaly would of already established himself in the side after pre-season had he not been injured.

Coleman has played in 3 of the last 5 games and he will gradually play more over the next few weeks... but it would be very unfair to drop Hibbert for him who has been solid wherever he has played in recent matches.

No matter what Moyes does, people complain; he cannot win as every single person seems to have a different opinion. But the issue with Coleman is petty. If he had of thrown Coleman on for Osman or Bily people would have complained saying ’’how negative, he has two2 forwards on the bench and he’s putting a defender on’’.
Ian Edwards
39   Posted 23/12/2009 at 13:10:06

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Spot on Tony Marsh. I agree with every word.

Playing 4-5-1 at home with the lack of craetivity in midfield is a relegation waiting to happen. Is it 7 or 8 home games now without a win?

Coleman in at right back. Play two forwards even if it means playing Agard. Fellaini out. Surely a bigger waste of money than Krøldrup.
Andy Crooks
40   Posted 23/12/2009 at 13:04:21

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Ian, how about Coleman on the right side of midfield? He seems good going forward and would allow Pienaar to play in central midfield with Fellaini, Bily on the left, Donovan (eventually) behind Saha, Cahill on the bench with Osman.I think Cahill’s future is as a super sub.

Finally, can we stop talking about "the dark days of Walter Smith". We are still in the Premier League and dark days will only be here if Moyes and Kenwright take us out of it.

Richard Osborne
41   Posted 23/12/2009 at 13:16:07

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Absolutely right, Kenny. It always makes me laugh when people resort to insults because they lack the intelligence to communicate their point without it. Ho-hum, I guess you laughed it off too!

Tony actually made some valid points but his problem is that he is a sensationalist. He deliberatley uses language in his postings, that he knows people are going to react to — hey, I’m a case in point! Calling other Everton fans ’Dopey’ if they don’t agree with his POV, is a sure sign of his writings.

Tony’s other problem is that he can’t distinguish between facts and opinions. Most of what he writes is his opinion, yet he calls it ’fact’, again a tactic used by someone trying to gain a rise out of people.

Looking past all that though, he has at least one good point. This is Moyes’s team and he has to take full responsibility for the failure to prepare the existing, fit players for their duties. The excuses of injuries to top players is wearing thin. The two who would make most difference, Arteta and Jagielka, were injured midway through last season. Moyes should have acted to make sure he had sufficient replacements.

I’m not sure he was solely to blame for taking so long to bring new players in but again, there seemed to be a little procrastination on his part, while other clubs wrapped up deals with minimal fuss.

I still believe Moyes is the right and only man for the job. I think he is an honest and proud man who has the best interests of the club at heart. He may not always get things tactically correct and may be more defensive than some of us would like but until someone can offer a sensible suggestion of a candidate to replace Moyes, I am going to back him 100%. I suggest the rest of you do the same.
Chris Butler
42   Posted 23/12/2009 at 13:52:37

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Listen, as Kopites always said to me about Moyes having no tactics, I’m starting to agree. Let's be honest here, Moyes's greatest success was the cup run last season. But except for Aston Villa at home, when we were terrific, and Liverpool, we played poorly.
Alan Clarke
43   Posted 23/12/2009 at 14:02:59

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Your response Kenny shows exactly why I referred to you in that way. I see your crap logic — Mike Walker was crap therefore we should never change manager just in case he turns out to be shit!

And for all your rubbish about Goerge Burley, look at Arsenal. Rioch’s Arsenal pipped us to 6th place that season. They sack him and appoint a little known coach called Wenger and the rest is history. But people like you are far too cautious. For me you have to take a few risks to get anywhere in life otherwise you’re stuck near the bottom all the time. You’ll never get a promotion, you’ll never buy a house and you will most likely never get married because you’re too cautious. I’m surprised you can even leave your house in the morning in case something bad happens.

I actually think people like Tony Marsh, Ian Edwards, Alan Kirwin, Mick Wrende, Ciaran McGlone and me are the ones whose glasses are half-full. We’re the ones who see the bigger picture. For all anyone can bleat on about 5th place finishes, I can recognise how stagnant we are under Moyes and we’re heading nowhere. The rest need to start showing some fucking ambition.
Ste Boyle
44   Posted 23/12/2009 at 14:05:48

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Firstly, A Merry Christmas to all who take the time to post on here. Now... on with my rant..

When Z-Cars comes on at the start of the game, does it hypnotise most of the supporters into thinking that we play great football and Moyes is ’just the job’ for us? Blue tinted specs indeed.
FFS lads what exactly has the man got to do to be put under pressure? His football is shit, his tactics are shit, his reading of the game is shit, his substitutions are shit..... We can't turn over the shitty teams at home (Wolves, Stoke, Brum) and anybody half decent gives us a beating.

I agree, he has steadied a sinking ship, but is it not time for a ’Thanks for that, I think we’ll move on now’?

I have no doubt he’ll leave anyway in the summer and all the press will be stating how shit Everton are and David Moyes was too good for them, he had to leave, etc etc. Makes me weep...

Ian Tunstead
45   Posted 23/12/2009 at 14:50:24

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Andy, You may well be right, but the problem is that you would probably have 1000+ fans that dissagree with you and want you sacked for it if you were the manager.

Half of them would be angry at you for splitting up the Pienaar-Baines partnership on the left, which is what happened when he swapped Bily and Pienaar, and the other half would be giving you abuse for playing a RB in midfield complaining about “round peggs in square holes”.

I can see your logic and I can see Daid Moyes's logic; surely there is a need for a bit more understanding and allowing him to get on with things.
Kenny Lloyd
46   Posted 23/12/2009 at 15:01:05

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Alan – I think you’ve got it slightly wrong. I’m not overly cautious or willing to back a manager without question. I admit Moyes has his failings but no one is perfect (are they??). What I won’t do however is start pissing my pants and moaning just because the first 4 months of this season haven’t quite gone the way we would have liked.

The man finished 5th and got us to a cup final. He was then forced to sell one of his better players in order to try and bring additional players in. On top of this he’s had a nightmare injury crisis to deal with.

It’s just my opinion but I think he’s earned more time than to get rid of him now. If we had a fully fit squad and we were still getting these results then yes I’d be more inclined to agree with some of the points made by yourself, Tony etc. I just think at the moment he’s operating with one hand tied behind his back and so me personally, I don’t want to judge him until the injuries ease up etc. If this is next season then so be it – I think he deserves it.

I fail to see what a new manager will do that will suddenly shoot us up the league and start making us beat these oh so, lowly shitty teams such as Birmingham, Wolves etc by comfortable margins. Unless he’s got the golden fleece from Jason and the Argonauts, he wouldn’t be getting his Arteta’s, Jagielkas back anytime soon so what would he do?

Play nice attractive footy? Bring Coleman in at RB? Or RW? Bomb out Hibbert and Osman (well we’ve got a massive squad so we can afford to do that right??) Sell Fellaini?? Not great options to get us into the top 6 or ideally the top 4 are they?

As for your dig about leaving the house, I’m actually sound leaving it – no problems at all. What I wouldn’t do though is sell it and stick all the profit on the lottery in the hope that my 6 numbers came in! Call it cautious, some might call it common sense!
Ian Tunstead
47   Posted 23/12/2009 at 14:57:02

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Alan Clarke, I have read some crap on here but yours is up there with the very worst. It is you who is not looking at the bigger picture.

For every Wenger that takes a club forward there must be 100 managers that take the club backwards. Wenger actually took on a team that was already successful with the makings of a good team, were as Moyes took a club on the way down and has taken the club just as far as far as I am concerned.

Believe it or not but last year Wenger took heavey criticism and many of their negative fans who don't see the bigger picture (a bit like yourself), wanted him out.
Brian Waring
48   Posted 23/12/2009 at 15:34:14

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"Moyes has shown himself to be a class act in everyway"

Ian, so he was showing class when he was holding out for a bumper pay rise, when all around him was going to pot?

Tony Waverleas
49   Posted 23/12/2009 at 15:43:41

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“…the reason is he’s shit and he knows he is and so does everyone else outside of Everton. Moyes has the safest job in football at Everton because knobheads like you Kenny still support him…”

Really?
Everyone outside of Everton thinks Moyes is a terrible manager?
Hmmm.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8069391.stm

Then again what would the LMA know compared to the combined wit & wisdom of the Toffeeweb Angry Brigade, the vast majority of whom clearly never set foot inside Goodison.

As for Tony Marsh (“More of the Same”?, well,at least you were spot on with that title if nothing else in your tiresome drivel) if being an Evertonian makes you so unhappy then please give it up.

That way I’ll have one less whiny voice to endure at the match and you’ll, well, you’ll maybe get soon DIY done on matchdays.

And of course you can give it up, Tony, after all you found it easy enough to turn down the Benfica trip despite booking and paying for it all, didn’t you? (Ahem…)

Jay Harris
50   Posted 23/12/2009 at 15:55:56

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Marshy welcome back.I know you wear your heart on your sleeve and it’s very frustrating being an Evertonian right now but here’s a bit of ned time reading if your missus will let you.

Keep the faith it will come good.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build’em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And---which is more---you’ll be a Man, my son!"

Rudyard Kipling
Brendan McLaughlin
51   Posted 23/12/2009 at 16:14:45

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Tony, here's my effort at cheering you up!

There once was a Toffee called Tony
Who was known as a bit of a moany
"We’ve no style or poise
Its all down to Moyes
TOP MANAGER? — the fuckers a phoney"

Happy Christmas to all!
Ian Tunstead
52   Posted 23/12/2009 at 16:30:49

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Brian

We dont know what went on behind the scenes so why are you jumping to conclusions?
Ian Tunstead
53   Posted 23/12/2009 at 16:31:54

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Fantastic respose Jay. I tried to post the same thing a few weeks ago but they didnt put it up. Great minds think a-like.
Andy Codling
54   Posted 23/12/2009 at 16:38:04

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Amazing how after 8 years of Moyes garbage people call slagging him off a knee jerk reaction
Jay Harris
55   Posted 23/12/2009 at 16:42:24

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Thanks Ian, I think we all need a bit of perspective right now with so many injuries,no settled team and NO SUPPORT to go out and buy new players of the calibre required.

Andy
I didnt see much knee jerking before last years FA cup final.

I.ve followed Efc for over 50 years and have seen some great teams and some very poor ones but when the chips are down we all need to pull together and get behind the manager and the team.
Phil Rodgers
56   Posted 23/12/2009 at 17:21:49

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Moyes earns a ridiclulous amount of money to pick a team to win football matches. This is not happening.

The amount of points dropped against poor sides season is scandalous. I can accept losing to a good side if the effort is there, but Moyes is paid to beat the Wolves and the Birminghams of this league. If he does not do this then he is failing both his employer and the fans.
Mick Wrende
57   Posted 23/12/2009 at 18:07:40

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You lads who moan about Moyes are spot on. Please for the New Tear can we sack him and appoint Jesus from Benfica. At least with that name we will have God on our side.
Mick Wrende
58   Posted 23/12/2009 at 18:09:28

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I have just read that poem from Rudyard Kipling above - I particularly like the first line of the 3rd verse:
"If you can make one heap of all your winnings"...

Go on, Moyesie, show us your pile of everything you have won!

Dave Wilson
59   Posted 23/12/2009 at 17:38:44

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What a pantomime!

This guy opens his case by claiming "Wolves, Burnley and Birmingham are better outfits than us". But I bet he wouldn’t put a rusty penny of his own hard-earned on any of them finishing above us.

He closes claiming Moyes has lost the dressing room, what utter utter fucken nonsense!

Say what you want about Moyes — as long as it makes sense — but only a complete fucken plant pot would claim he has lost the dressing room after his team come back from two down against Spurs and come back three times against Chelsea.
Moyes has left himself wide open to criticism this season, and a few people have put together a pretty strong case for the prosecution, but this isn’t criticism... it's inane nonsense.

"lost the dressing room"... fuck me!

Jon Gorman
60   Posted 23/12/2009 at 18:37:17

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Idiots get frustrated easily and make bold, sweeping statements that surely even they don’t really mean.

Tony Marsh = Idiot

One point really riled me though. How can you say that we are in the same position as when Davey took over?

1) Smith presided over a reign in which we truly were relegation fodder and achieved nothing worthy of note. Under Davey, however, we’ve had European cup runs, a domestic final and five good league campaigns.

2) We have a pitch full of salable assets, the majority of which are international regulars.
Andy Codling
61   Posted 23/12/2009 at 19:25:33

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"2) We have a pitch full of salable assets, the majority of which are international regulars."

Wonder if Kenwright’s had that thought...
James Stewart
62   Posted 23/12/2009 at 20:19:37

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Hmmm this thread has turned into a bit of a pissing contest now I think I will refrain from further comment on principle. Surely us Evertonians can debate properly without it turning into this farce!
Ste Traverse
63   Posted 23/12/2009 at 20:33:49

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I think I'm just about still in the pro-Moyes camp.

But If we had our full side out all season and we were still this bad, I might not be. With spending nothing apart from the Lescott money in the summer while the likes of Villa, City and Spurs invested, we are the epitome of the old saying, ’If you stand still in football you go backwards’.

Though it begs the question: Why did Moyes sign that new deal when he knew he’d be held back by lack of transfer funds?
Brian Waring
64   Posted 23/12/2009 at 20:57:05

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Oh come on Ian. It took him an age to put pen to paper, even though nearly every week we were told he would be signing, but something kept coming up, and then all of a sudden he signs with the added bonus of a bumper pay rise, to me that sounds like someone holding out for the cash.

He is like the rest of the footy world, a greedy bastard. I wouldn’t mind if he was actually value for money.
Gavin Ramejkis
65   Posted 23/12/2009 at 21:19:13

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Dave Wilson, we came back twice against Chelski, we scored first.
Robbie Kirkham
66   Posted 23/12/2009 at 21:17:27

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I am still a fan of Moyes but I do think we could do with a change. Now we play some terrible football at times have no pace in the team at all which is his fault. Ok, people say we finished top 6 last 3 seasons & the Cup Final... so what?

We want to be winning things and there is other managers who could do a better job don’t know if it's been said already I’ve not read all comments yet but I think Roy Hodgson would do a great job for us. Tony Marsh, glad your back.

Andrew Conroy
67   Posted 23/12/2009 at 22:43:20

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I thought we looked exceptionally good in large patches and — their goal notwithstanding — had everything under control. Yet again, we were found wanting in the final third.

Just to pick up on one thing that’s been mentioned, could it have been that Moyes chucked Vaughan on because:

a) He’s a Birmingham lad isn’t he? I Don’t know his local loyalties, but sent on in his usual Roy Race manner with seconds to go, this could have been the difference.

b) After another long injury and with no fanfare beforehand, it was the sort of curveball that could have lifted the players and fans alike enough to make the final push.

Either way, if Vaughan had scored it would have lifted the roof off, and for so many reasons. Strange. David Moyes is widely regarded as a meat ’n’ taters pragmatist, but there’s a romantic and daring streak in him I’d like to see more of.

Having said this, he needs to chill the fuck out with his handling of Vaughan. The bloke is a wild (red) bull at the best of times, and he’s at a stage where he needs to be used more thoughtfully than being lobbed on with seconds to go and it’s all at fever pitch.
Michael Parrington
68   Posted 23/12/2009 at 22:57:26

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Some interesting comments, Tony... spot on with Jags and Arteta but a lot of the rest is a bit harsh and probably based on the frustration that every Evertonian is feeling at the moment.

There’s been some interesting commentary about Man Ure’s prospects this season with their current injury list, and they suffered a pretty demoralising defeat last weekend. Luckily for them they have a bigger and more experienced squad, but having first choice players out of the side will probably prevent them from winning the PL and or CL this season.

There is no doubt that the injury list is scuppering Everton this season. Yes, we can say that Moyes should have strengthened the squad more and thet Kenwright should have fronted up the cash, but did anyone think it was really going to be a case of as many as 10 players sidelined for most of the campaign so far? Not just that, there is the recovery time to get fully fit once coming back to the team.

The management has a chance in the next month to strengthen the squad sufficiently for the remainder of the season. Let's hope they do it.

As for a new manager, who would you trust to be able to come to Goodison and with the limited funds be able to do a better job than Moyes? Not really an easy decision, and a big risk if you ask me.

Again back to Man Utd, Ferguson has had a few run-ins with players over the years and the club always chose the manager over the players. This brings stability to the club and keeps trouble makers from selfishly causing trouble to the detriment of the club as a whole.

We need a few wins on the trott to get some confidence. I hope it comes soon as I don't want to watch us in the Championship next year. It's time to get behind the team that's put out on the ground each week and help them get a few wins.

Harvey Miller
69   Posted 23/12/2009 at 23:06:47

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Hey guys, this conversation sounds like old hags brawling. Tony has a point: all is not well in Evertonland. I think what he says is downright true. We may easily end up in the relegation battle. I know some people from Newcastle and last year they sounded just like we do now.

But still, it’s the festive time. I wish all the best for all supporters of the mighty Everton. Let’s continue the debate in 2010, but in a more constructive way. Happy Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Kenny Newton
70   Posted 24/12/2009 at 01:01:18

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Well said, Kenny. I think Alan wants Gordon Lee back if Moyes is so shit, why does Sir Alex want him to takeover when he retires? We were very unlucky last Sunday, it should have been 3-1 easy.
Richard Dodd
71   Posted 24/12/2009 at 09:36:09

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Notwithstanding my great respect for both Bill Kenwright and David Moyes, I have come to accept that last season we saw the peak of achievement the Club could expect for the foreseeable future. It’s not that the two of them ’have taken us as far...’, as so many love to write, but rather that the magic of Moyes could not expect to endure for ever without the injection of the cash necessary to take us to the next level.

For all the criticism of BB for not selling up, the reality is that genuine sheiks/yanks/Icelandic billionaires are now as elusive as Yakubu hat-tricks and the rejection of DK will not have made the Club anything but less attractive to the outside world.

In any case, given the shennanigans at the likes of West Ham, Portsmouth, Liverpool and clubs further down the pyramid, perhaps we had a lucky break!

So even Doddy thinks it’s ’hold on to your hats time’! But the difference with me is that I have come to regard mid-table as respectable and totally acceptable. I may want for more but as Daddy used to say at Christmas... ’You can want all you like but you ain’t getting it!’ Yuse all have a good one!

Dave Wilson
72   Posted 24/12/2009 at 09:52:05

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Jon Gorman

Tony Marsh is no idiot, far from it.

He just seems to have more fun being "outrageous" these days than making his point.
Alun Jones
73   Posted 24/12/2009 at 10:41:03

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Tony Marsh says a lot of things that make sense... trouble is the way he says it gets people's backs up. Forget about Moyes and the dressing room and where we have gone in 8 years, all those debates are not very black and white.

But what is clear is that we played 4-5-1 at home to Birmingham... after a creditable 3-3 draw at Chelsea where I witnessed us causing havoc at times inside one of the top 4 defenses, in fact that game, despite the fact we WERE lucky, was terrific to watch, it was a shot in the arm for all the negative drivel we have seen in recent months. Here was Everton giving as good as they got against a top-4 team... and then Birmingham.

Whatever you say about Tony Marsh, he is spot on here, negative depressing tactics leaves me despondent. 4-5-1 at home... end of story.

David Hallwood
74   Posted 24/12/2009 at 11:07:58

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As a dopey Evertonian, I’d like to point out: a) we played 4-5-1 and even 4-6-0 last season & finished 5th; b) how could we play 4-4-2 when Saha is only 75% match fit, the Yak has only just come back from injury and is way, way off the pace, Victor & JV injured... er —and that’s just about it except for kids.

And for the posters that keep stating that injuries are no excuse, does this mean that in your view losing key players has no adverse effect on the performance of a team, therefore Man U if they lost Rio, Vidic, & Rooney or if Chelsea were without Drogba, Anelka, Terry & Carvallio it wouldn’t make any difference to how they play? (!) Sir Fergie certainly doesn’t agree with you, neither does Anchelotti(sic) but thank god they’re not dopey Evertonians so what do they know?
Gavin Ramejkis
75   Posted 24/12/2009 at 12:06:20

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

We lost our best striker, best midfielder and best defender during last season not this season, not in the closed season. Those three were not addressed and as such any injuries to what we had left in the smallest squad in the EPL would be exponentially magnified.

I and many others complained about the lack of squad depth and it’s finally come home to roost.
Chris Butler
76   Posted 24/12/2009 at 14:11:29

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Billy has slammed our Evertons tactics or Moyes tactics today in 1 of the national papers saying we can play passing football yet we never do. He is unsure whether his team mates will be able to get out of the mess they find themselves in. At the end of the day it seems to me that Moyes has lost a section of the supporters and a few of the players. Unless we beat the likes of Wolves and Birmingham in away from home we will struggle.
Tony Waverleas
77   Posted 24/12/2009 at 14:26:28

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Really, what was DM supposed to do? Nobody could have foreseen the cruel luck that has hampered these three vital squad members’ return to action so, unless you think an ability to see into the future should also be amongst DM’s list of talents, then I can understand why our manager expected they’d be back sooner.

Some of our best players (arguably its entire outfield spine) are missing and are in turn being missed terribly. But reading some of the stuff on here you’d think we’re only waiting for Carl Tiler, Claus Thomsen & Bernie Wright to get themselves fit.

When people talk about lack of squad depth what they’re really saying is that we should have ready-made replacements for Mikel, The Yak, Jags et al sitting on the bench just in case. Sorry, but there are very few clubs anywhere in the world of football who can afford that luxury.
Quantity’s one thing but quality’s another.
Ed Bottomley
78   Posted 24/12/2009 at 18:08:09

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Tony Marsh — you are the Michael Moore of ToffeeWeb — drowning what relevant points you have in a sea of tripe. I’d write a fan article pointing out your madness if they’d publish it...
Thomas Williams
79   Posted 26/12/2009 at 03:10:51

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Mr Marsh, boy do you have a short memory, my friend... haven’t improved? Unless you enjoyed relegation scraps every season, we have improved immensely.

Regretably we will not improve any further unless we get massively lucky with kids (aka Utd) or get a modicum of investment. Everton are the only club who have sold their best players and NOT gone down, go and look at all the teams in Championship and lower and remember who they sold.

Yes, the fans are dopey in a way, but not because of your reasons, it’s the lack of fight against the board that bothers me, they are the sole problem for Everton’s malaise... end of. For those of you who question 4-5-1, it’s simple really, we haven't got the players for 4-4-2, and the major problem for that is Cahill; unless he is scoring, he is useless, now we have all liked Timmy but if we are to take the next step up, he has to go, he hampers the team set-up.

The other problem is Yobo; without a covering midfielder he is pants. Carsley made him look better than he really is, as we have found out since he has gone.

Whether you all like it or not, Walter and Davey have done fantastic jobs to keep Everton afloat, with quite frankly ridiculous restraints. You are laying the blame on the wrong people. If Mourinho or Ferguson managed Everton, we wouldn’t be any better off, given the working conditions they would have to suffer. No club prospers selling players like Rooney, Lescott, Ferguson, Kanchelskis etc — just look at Leeds; so how do you expect Everton, Smith or Moyes too?

Get down to Goodison Rd after Burnley and demand removal of chairman, like we used to do in the 70s.

John Andrews
80   Posted 26/12/2009 at 23:11:24

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Well said, Robbie Kirkham!
Matt Traynor
81   Posted 27/12/2009 at 04:29:02

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I think a few people here are missing Tony’s point. Player for player, the squad is much better than the squad that Moyes inherited almost 8 years ago.

So why can it be so painful to watch us play sometimes? We’ve seen them turn it on in some games, but in others they really have been dire.

Out here in Asia, pretty much every game is shown live. Unless we are playing a top four side, we’re put on one of the minor channels. If you go to a pub to watch footy, they’re not showing our games. I know people in the sports TV business out here, and they’ve told me the same thing — no-one likes watching our games. We are not entertaining to the neutrals.

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