It’s usually a bad idea to unload in the first hours following a disappointing result and I see from the mailbag there is a lot of misplaced finger pointing over the derby defeat. Some, particularly those calling, ridiculously, for Moyes to be fired or Osman to be transferred may already be rethinking in tranquility. I gave it a full night before considering what cost us a very winnable derby. I believe the following factors intertwined to create a catastrophe.
#1 Martin Atkinson was never fully in charge of the game.
Liverpool clearly decided before the game that this was going to be a brutal encounter. You could argue Atkinson’s lack on control had an impact on both sides but the truth is that Everton paid a higher price than Liverpool. There was far more shoving, wrestling and shirt pulling by Liverpool players going unpunished during set pieces. Pienaar was brutalized again and again and again and should have been given more protection. After he had sent off Kyrgiakos Atkinson actually cut Liverpool more slack and was disinclined to punish them further.
#2 Losing Kyrgiakos galvanized Liverpool. Losing Fellaini dispirited Everton.
Liverpool didn’t waste time in inquests. They closed ranks and made their ten men play like 11. Everton never recovered from losing Fellaini and never had the guile to get behind their defence, despite plenty of possession. We spent too much time on the ball. You would think it was pretty obvious how to make an extra man count: move the ball around, spread the defence, use your width. But once Liverpool was a goal up, we were faced with an eight man defence and having an extra man was meaningless.
#3 Tim Howard made a catastrophic error of concentration to give away an unlikely goal.
This was because he was still focused on Kuyt fouling him on his own goal line than on the corner being taken. You can see in the replay he is still bitching when the ball comes across. A foul should have been given on Kuyt for a push in the chest but nevertheless Howard allowed himself to be distracted in the moment.
#4 Everton never made our set pieces count.
This was a game made for a set piece goal and we never looked like scoring from a blizzard of corners in the first half. Time and again, corners didn’t even drop as far as the near post. Crossing the ball effectively is a basic, basic, basic technical skill but time and again Baines and others fail to do it.
#5 It was a mistake to bring Arteta on for him in a game of this violence.
This was not a game in which to involve Arteta. I am assuming Moyes thought another sharp skillful ballplayer would take some pressure off Pienaar, but this was a game for balls and brawn, not brains. I would have liked to have seen Bilyaletdinov come in, possibly moving Donovan to Fellaini’s role, which he has filled in the past for the US. If Rodwell had been available, it would have been tailor made for him, too.
#6 Louis Saha was not prepared to get involved in this kind of bloodletting.
Saha was missing in action for a lot of the time and it was not a surprise when he came off. It’s understandable, but regrettable, that someone with Saha’s traumatic experience of injury should be wary of some of the vile and unrestrained play by Liverpool. Once it was obvious what kind of game this was, it would have been wiser to bring on Yakubu at half time. Osman didn’t seem too keen either.
#7 Not for the first time, Gerrard was allowed to get away with murder in a derby.
Gerrard should have been sent off for his typically vicious tackle on Pienaar who was already going down injured. As usual, he was allowed to do as much diving, arguing, fighting and fouling as he liked. I can’t express enough contempt for him.
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1 Posted 07/02/2010 at 16:24:04
2 Posted 07/02/2010 at 16:24:55
3 Posted 07/02/2010 at 16:50:46
Tactically outclassed and outfought by hungrier players, simple as.
The rest is just bluff and bluster. We have seen exactly the same performance half a dozen times before, the only thing that changes are the excuses afterwards.
4 Posted 07/02/2010 at 16:47:07
Unfortunately, when the Greek went off Benitez went from being negative, and trying to kick our lot off the park, to ultra-negative with two rows of 4 and one upfront, sit back except for their foward and wait for us to go into them, then kick/shove/push us every time we got close to their box.
That was not the mark of some master tactician. The Spaniard and his shite team knew what they were going to do. Man for man and just try and get the set pieces.
Everton’s error was on the pitch. Inaccurate passing. Not enough commitment from the forwards to give them stick back.
Liverpool got lucky. Everton were sloppy.
A fitter (match fitter) Everton side would have done better. Let the Kopites have their open top bus parade.
They’re still shite, heading into bankruptcy and going nowhere.
Anyone saying that Benitez out foxed Moyes would be wrong. Everton didn’t have someone on the bench to mix it up up front . Moyes tried with Yak and Anichebe, but my feeling is both arn’t match fit enough. Same for Arteta, his passing isn’t back yet and he’s not up with the pace of the game. Just unfortunate thats all for us.
As for Pienaar, the reds have a cheek really for saying anything. Mascher-gringo has been sent off many a time for deliberate fouls. Liverpool were playing to try and cause us ill discipline. And we all know what they do with the refs.
The 1st minute Carragher rugby style lunch into Pienaar’s back was far more "cowardly" than his challenge on el-gringo. John Aldridge just his usual biased hypocritical self.
What we’ve got to do is be more aggressive. Certainly Neville and Howard should have attacked that ball.
The balls there to be attacked. Not petted.
5 Posted 07/02/2010 at 17:30:41
I don’t think anyone is calling for Moyes to be sacked, simply pointing out his usual inadequacies which are compounded by the absolute shite he spouted in analysing the performance.
Everyone in the Everton section within earshot of me was sickened and disgusted by our performance. Yet Moyes thinks we played well.
He does what he does well, there can be no argument about that. What these games always highlight though is just how far away from the truly worldclass managers he is.
We love to have a pop at Rafa but lets be honest and fair for a second; He is in an absolutely different class to Moyes tactically and analytically.
Moyes is a one trick pony and if the trick doesn’t work he is fooked. Rafa figured that out long ago, which is why he can brush us aside with 10 men(as they have twice now) and with a far from first choice lineup.
6 Posted 07/02/2010 at 17:48:41
Been quiet in January... maybe that was because Moyes got Manager of the Month perhaps?
7 Posted 07/02/2010 at 17:50:40
Did he change the game with a sub? No.
Did he change formation to win the game? No.
All he did was put 10 men behind the ball and ground out a result.
That's not tactically being superior at all!
8 Posted 07/02/2010 at 17:59:32
It’s what you do every day in training, and what becomes second nature to you.
Our ’tactic’ is to hit the ball long to the spent force that is Tim Cahill, hence why having an extra man NEVER seems to give us an edge.
It was the most comfortable display you will ever see from a team with 10 men. Not only did they continue to control the game, they went and won it... with the 10!!
The excuses are pathetic and embarrassing and serve no purpose at all. We will never improve whilst we continue making excuses for the inexcusible.
9 Posted 06/02/2010 at 17:15:39
I shall start by dispelling a popular myth that lingers on and on in the minds of the pundits and fans alike, despite bountiful evidence to the contrary. And that's the erroneous notion that form goes out the window in a derby. In actual fact, the team with the highest consistent league finishes over the space of a decade has won the lion's share of derbies too — something that applies to us, to the Manchester derby, the north London derby, the Birmingham derby and further afield, the Milan derby also, among many other examples I could cite.
Apart from bad tactics, team selection, players not performing and so on, all "on the day", the real reason why we are so bad at derbies is because we have not been able to match them in terms of playing staff over the years since we were last title challengers. In simple and very obvious terms, if we were consistently on the same level as them, we would have won many more derbies. Of course, a good team doesn't guarantee wins, but it radically increases the chances of winning any given game, and that applies equally to derby matches as to any other game, local passions and charged atmospheres notwithstanding.
Which brings me to the grand problem with Everton. Why can't we compete with Liverpool really? Because — again, very obviously — they have consistently enjoyed superior funding to us thanks to a vastly larger marketed-to fanbase, followed more latterly by perennial Champions League remuneration. Which means we can trace the problem back to their spectacular successes in Europe in the 1970s and early 1980s, when they won four European Cups and built an enormous global support on the back of that.
Nevertheless, for all their achievements in Europe they still lagged (and still do) behind Manchester United in terms of support. Why? Because United were the first English club to win the European Cup. It's the old Coca Cola versus Pepsi issue again; the one who sets the precedent takes the lion's share of the glory, and subsequently, of the market. Thus an ordinarily insurmountable monopoly of sorts (or a "quadropoly", if you prefer) crystallises into a horrible, morale-draining Groundhog Day of endless same-old-story-ism.
So where does that leave Everton? Absent a Manchester City style benefactor, or the financial evisceration of Liverpool FC, or perhaps best of all, some form of new monetary parity rule in the Premier League, we can only expect more derby misery in the main, no matter who is in charge of the club or the squad. And that, my friends, is the real problem with Everton.
10 Posted 07/02/2010 at 18:07:21
They - the RS -didn’t control the game at all. They retreated and hit long hoping for throw ins and set pieces.
They crowded their box and our long balls were an attempt to get past their first row, and look for second balls and knock downs.
Because when they’re dropping back and opperating as two rows of 4 with little intention of coming out thats how you beat the first row.
And I distinctly remember Arteta trying to run into / around them getting into the box and being challenged with three around him.
So don’t tell me that we didn’t try many different routes because we did.
11 Posted 07/02/2010 at 18:18:31
To me, when a team goes down to ten men, in any top level game, you expect the other team to dominate, in terms of possession and territory.
We didn’t do that at all. If we did, then I could accept maybe this argument that ’we are just missing a bit of sparkle in the final third’. It’s a nonsense though.
Of course a team with 10 players isn’t going to be holding a line on the halfway and creating chance after chance, that isn’t realistic.
In terms of a team playing with a player light though, Liverpool retained FULL control of the game.
The lack of penetration we managed, the lack of attempts on their goal and the lack panic in their ranks mark this out clearly.
The fact they went to 10 men at 0-0 and went on to win the game after that just makes the point all the more striking.
They scored the goal after a succession of corners. They won those corners by being positive and taking the game to us on the counter-attack, at a period when it was hard to tell who had the ten!!
I think your compass is off somewhere here pal and your standards must be very low.
What more a team with 10 men can do aside from taking a lead with a player less and then comfortably seeing out an entire half is a mystery to me.
They controlled the game and the best team won, simple as.
We were a one dimensional, shambolic embarrassment.
12 Posted 07/02/2010 at 18:20:31
Also Mark, wasn’t Pienaar’s and Fellaini’s terrible challenges cowardly as well? Or are theirs okay because they play for us?
The shite go one up and have 10 men on the pitch, where does it say in the rule book that they have to keep playing and not become negative? Moyes wrote the book on the being ultra-negative, 'safety first and hope to nick one' game.
13 Posted 07/02/2010 at 18:36:05
Only a complete moron would go gung-ho with 10 men, seemingly that is what our fans expect though, if you don’t do that, apparently you are a ’shithouse’.
Funny that,because Moyes plays like a ’shithouse’ with XI men, week-in, week-out.
Funny how your own shit doesn’t smell so sweet when it’s fed to you isn’t it!
14 Posted 07/02/2010 at 18:39:32
15 Posted 07/02/2010 at 18:59:55
16 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:00:13
According to ESPN Everton had 61% possession in the game, and four off sides.
Were we a one dimensional shambolic embarrasment at the Emirates? Or at Goodison versus Man City?
They won the sequence of corners - off one isolated corner. They (the RS) had only three shots on goal in the game.
Comfortable? Yeah right.
The scrappy affair suited them.
Ok Brian was Gerrard’s double kick to the neck and groin of Pienaar not cowardly? Or the usual - Carragher antics?
They marked out Pienaar from the start and Fellaini, and got a lucky set piece resulting from the error of Howard and Neville.
Not the tactical nouse of the Spaniard.
We’ve done the same before and ground out a result ourselves, http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/05-06/reports/Blackburn(h).asp
Quote Michael Kenrick:
"A terrific result for Everton under the circumstances, a real battling win for 10 men, their ninth 1-0 win of the season, that takes them to within one point of Blackburn, whom Everton completed the double over. Well done, David Moyes and the lads. A great job — and Everton finally into the top half of the table!!!"
Does the fact Everton committed 24 fouls in the derby not suggest we were battling and the shite were battling?
Or when we won away at Spurs with ten men also in 2006? Wasn’t exactly Moyes being negative then was it even with ten men after 32 minutes?
So how come theres all this OTT criticism.
It happens. Thats football, they ground a result out.
17 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:30:46
Let me explain it for you.
When Moyes and the team perform well-they get praised.
When they don’t they get criticised.
Losing 1-0 to a mediocre team that played most of the game with ten men, because of a lack of creativity and flair. Is more than worthy of criticism don’t you think?
18 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:29:56
But such is life.
I think the result has much to do with lack of real match fitness of the likes of Arteta. Moyes introduced him in the attempt to get us passing the shite off the park, but that lot just tried as I said to soak it up and get the % play.
Calling Moyes a shit house is way way way over the top like.
The difference when we did win in those cases is we had players truly on form and not coming back from injury.
Mikel Arteta, who had to be introduced before was anticipated was playing in his third game back. Anichebe his second.
Marginal difference. And it was a marginal defeat yesterday. Not this inexcusable OTT drivel.
19 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:33:07
Firm evidence that Moyes has not progressed on from there... in fact we’re worse in that we could never win that Blackburn game if it happened this season.
The more I think about it, the more I read numerous comments from others on here who see the same old problem, the more utterly sick I am with Moyes as our manager and the pathetic shite we play going forward. The total absence of guile and inventiveness from this defensive genius, it’s simply pathetic. And all the more that he has successfully conned all these fucking pundits into believing he’s doing such a wonderful job at Everton.
He’s not. As another said elsewhere, IMWT — IN MOYES WE’RE TOSS!!!
20 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:40:44
Anyway will let you vent your spleen.
Still think its way way over the top. Had they cracked a goal in from a 40 yard run past 5 players I might be doing the same.
Not from a dodgy set piece though.
21 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:52:26
22 Posted 07/02/2010 at 19:57:41
But you didn’t answer my point though about the injuries issue. I’d like to know what Arteta’s pass completion rate was yesterday.
Certainly not what it was March/April 2009 when he went out injured.
Oh well. Chelsea to come. I doubt Arteta will start. But no doubt some will be criticising the manager for not playing him or Yakubu come Wednesday.
23 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:07:50
Yes Mark, Moyes has waon against ten men-four years ago- he got praised for it. He didn’t on saturday and he gets criticised. Why you may ask?
Football 101 he failed to make good a one man advantage-unforgivable. Its actually happened twice on his watch against the same team!
24 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:15:36
Anyway I know better than getting into a debate with you. You’ll just throw your toys out the pram like you’re mate the Greek sounding one.
I’m sure that we’d have made the apparent advantage count, more so if our players were fit. However fitness particuarly match fitness only comes from matches. Football 101.
And its convient for you to ignore the fact we’ve beaten teams with ten men, at least twice under Moyes. So he’s hardly the inept tactician your friends would like to portray now is he?
With a very difficult month coming I never expected Moyes to come out and give the players a public flogging. I do know he gave them a private one.
But we’ve had this discussion before David haven’t we. You don’t know anything about managing people do you?
25 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:20:45
Now your telling me that you know what went on in the dressing room after the match? Good grief.
26 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:25:19
27 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:30:21
28 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:32:36
29 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:31:01
In terms of attacking play I make the point that real-match fitness is lacking due to all the injuries. We had a marginal defeat.
Dismiss it (as usual) if you want. That’s merely your opinion.
30 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:42:10
The reason we lost yesterday is because Gerrard was on the pitch - whenever that lowlife cunt plays we cannot function as a team, end of.
We have a mental block whenever he is on the pitch and as Dick pointed out in point 7 that, "Gerrard was allowed to get away with murder," yet again.
All the other points made are valid but ultimately every time we play those twats, we bottle it. Moyes needs to sort our mindset out against the ’top’ teams or it will be his undoing. Our record in big games is shocking under Moyes and this is the reason why he has hit a ceiling both with Everton and in his career in the longer term.
31 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:41:13
This is embarrassing how did you get the Everton banter gig? I should know better than to get in a debate with you; your an idiot you will drag me down to your level and beat me with experience.
I think thats a win for you and your ten brain cells.
32 Posted 07/02/2010 at 20:48:59
A lack of match fitness in the attack simply does not wash with me. We bottled it, like we always do.
33 Posted 07/02/2010 at 22:33:08
34 Posted 07/02/2010 at 23:47:43
The RS have had far more resources than us over the years, how as a small club now can we beat them. Moyes can’t produce magic and I worry that we can never replace him without giving any new manager more money for players. He exasperates me with his tactics but I believe that he is perfect for a "small" club like Everton.
I’ve changed my mind about Fellaini by the way. He is an unbelievably effective defensive midfielder when you watch him. His ability to break up attacks is very like Makelele. Not necessarily constructive but surely effective and we missed his physical presence when he went.
35 Posted 08/02/2010 at 11:05:27
Listen to yourselves.
He’s world class. Or is it just coz you only watch our games that you haven’t seen anyone that good for us since Lineker?
36 Posted 08/02/2010 at 11:16:21
Why do you think Capello is willing to sacrafice him to the left side of midfield instead of Lampard? The bloke has no class in him. Have a look at the pathetic fall and pain etched look on his face as the 5-foot nothing Piennar gently challenges him in the air. Such a strong brave man! I'm so proud that he represents our country! World class cunt.
37 Posted 08/02/2010 at 13:00:26
Loosing Felli was the turning point because up till then he looked the class act in midfield and his influence was growing.
On the face of it I didnt think much of the substitutions but the yak and anichebe both worked the keeper which is more than the rest of the team did so its hard to complain and I dont think you can really blame the manager for bringing on the best player at the club to replace felli.
Re Gerrard, he is a top player but all we saw on saturday was his nasty and cowardly side - the way he was rolling round on the floor to get pienaar a red after an every day clash of heads and the dive for a free kick at the end of the first half (against Cahil?) were far from world class, no wonder capello doesnt want his type as england captain.
38 Posted 08/02/2010 at 13:12:24
No 8. Osman — fucking useless again
No 9. Neville — fucking useless, his fault for the goal.
No 10. Moyes and his fucking shite tactics, motivation and all round leadership.
39 Posted 08/02/2010 at 13:21:25
Think you’re on the wrong website lad.
40 Posted 08/02/2010 at 13:30:12
41 Posted 08/02/2010 at 13:35:18
When it comes to the manager, there is no way Everton will sack him, he is the best of the rest, doesn’t ask for money, is well paid and let's face it, despite most of us hating his ways of playing against the top four, he does enough to keep his job. Any new manager will want money to spend — money we don’t have.
No, Moyes will go when he gets the call from Celtic or there is a change of ownership at Goodison. Not before. So let's get used to it because the clueless tactical and defensive style will continue and you know what's worse? We all know it will.
42 Posted 08/02/2010 at 15:07:55
"They didn’t do anything fancy just 2 banks of 4 and kept their discipline"
i.e. kicked any Everton player approaching their box.
And if Moyes can go to Arsenal and basically pretty much tame them by keeping Asharvin off the ball for 89minutes of the game, then he’s not as clueless as those merely, angst ridden frustrated blues would like to portray.
Playing with what he’s got, which due to the injuries earlier this season and players coming back may have been an issue.
I mean the way the RS have acted you’d have thought this was a cup final, so that showed the desperation of them.
They’re a pub team at best, who kicked our ball player (Pienaar up in the air, and took out our holding midfielder and disrupted us).
You would have thought we were the home team.....
43 Posted 09/02/2010 at 12:39:28
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