To win the cup Moyes must learn from the past

By Anthony   Jones  ::  02/04/2012   61 Comments (»Last) I am delighted we have reached the cup semi-final. I am no fan of the Board of Directors, and I have been a fairly harsh critic of David Moyes, but I am an Everton fan so I enjoy the club?s successes when I can.

I believe that we will turn Liverpool over in the semi-final because it means more to our players, and because it means more to our manager and fans. They have already won a cup this year, and are thus assured participation in European competition. Also, we have a good record of rising to the occasion against the league?s more successful clubs, at least when we are not playing at the respective clubs? own grounds.

We are not favourites to win the trophy, however, as Chelsea and Tottenham field very good teams when they are motivated. Moreover, both clubs are under pressure to win silverware due to their relative standing in British football, and their big spending owners/directors. To make the challenge bigger still, it looks as though one of these two clubs will fail to reach the Champions League this season.

Moyes has previously guided us to an FA Cup Final, and a Carling Cup Semi-Final, both of which featured Chelsea. I am not predicting that we will face Chelsea again if we reach the final this year, but these two games are etched into my memory as big cup-ties that were immensely disappointing. Please see the quotes below from the two match summaries. BBC Sport, January 2008:

?Chelsea were the better team for large phases of the match but, once Yakubu equalised shortly after Mikel's 64th-minute dismissal, Everton looked the team most likely to win a pulsating tie.?;

?Everton all too often gave Chelsea too much time and space?.

BBC Sport, May 2009:

?Hibbert was not the only player at fault ? he should have received more support from Leon Osman on that flank ? but the amount of space they were leaving invited trouble, and Chelsea took full advantage to equalise after 21 minutes.?;

?By now, Hiddink's side were completely on top, with the Toffees unable to keep hold of the ball, let alone use it constructively. Everton did at least tighten up at the back, with the exception of the hapless Hibbert who was caught out time and time again before the break.?;

?Even after his reshuffle, Chelsea were still enjoying the lion?s share of possession?. It is likely that six or seven players from the 2009 FA Cup Final will play if we reach the final this year. Though the same could be said of Chelsea, I am concerned that our more senior players, who are arguably now past their best, will be three years older by the final. Add this to the absence of Pienaar, and a manager who has shown little care for the phrase ?carpe diem?, and I can?t help but fear a repeat of former capitulations on the big stage. I hope I am proved wrong.

For what it?s worth, I would love to see Drenthe and Gueye start on the flanks (if available) in the semi-final (and hopefully the final), to ensure that Jelavic is not isolated on the large pitch. I would also like to see Barkely come on if we go behind in either game. I would be tempted to put Coleman in as right back to provide more attacking balance, as he was superb for Blackpool at right back.

Regardless of the personell, I don?t see how a 'contain and counter' philosophy will ever win us a trophy. I hope that Moyes puts his faith in the players this time around, and encourages them to win the cup rather than edge it. I hope he learns from the past...

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Tony J Williams
455   Posted 02/04/2012 at 16:55:48

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The problem we had in 2009 was that we were arguably playing the best team in Europe at the time and our right side had a defender just back from injury and afforded no protection from Ossie, who himself wasn't fully fit.

We were also missing our spine of Jags, Arteta and Yakubu.

If we were to play Chelsea in the final this year, I would fancy our chances against them.
Mike Gaynes
459   Posted 02/04/2012 at 17:12:34

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Unbelievable, Anthony. Barkley hasn't played for the first team in months, and you want Moyes to toss him into the Cup Final instead of, say, the brilliantly in-form Osman?

And Coleman at right back in a Final??? Based on his having played there two years ago in a lower division? Are you joking? Can you imagine Chelsea's (or Spurs') absolute delight at seeing a player who has never played a single game at right back in the Premiership? They would eat him alive, if they could stop laughing long enough.

Fortunately, I'm absolutely certain that Moyes would never contemplate either of those insane moves for so much as a fraction of a second.
Kevin Tully
461   Posted 02/04/2012 at 17:22:47

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Same attacking tactics we showed against Sunderland please.

We also need ALL eleven players to stand up, not just the usual suspects. In big games you need all your players to perform, this has been our downfall in the past.

Can Liverpool be any lower in confidence going into this game ?
Oliver Molloy
462   Posted 02/04/2012 at 17:34:39

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Anthony, I believe we will win the semi-final, but your a fool if you think the Reds will not be up for this match as much as we will will/should be.
John Crawley
463   Posted 02/04/2012 at 17:39:29

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I agree with you that we have to be positive if we are to win the cup. We need to play like we did against Swansea and Sunderland not like we did at home to say Spurs. I don't think contain and counter is necessarily the problem, it's when we just sit deep and defend without showing any attacking intent. We have also bottled it in the big games and need to play without fear, that has been the biggest problem.

I sensed a real determination and belief in the way we played against Sunderland; let's hope that marks a turning point in the way that we play in these games.
Trevor Lynes
464   Posted 02/04/2012 at 17:41:04

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Spot on, Oliver!! The Reds will definitely be up for the semi as they have nowt else to play for (same as us). I just hope that we don't give them more respect than they deserve. They are nowhere near as good as the great Liverpool sides under Shankly and Paisley so we should be confident and in their faces!!!

We ran them close when they were at their best, apart from one or two huge lapses, so this present Liverpool team should hold no fears for us. I think they will fade as they did against a not very good Newcastle Utd who have definitely over-performed this season.

If we really put a big effort in, I'm sure we will reach the final... it's just a pity we can't use Pienaar as his workrate is an example to all. Gibson must perform really well in midfield and Felli should look after Gerrard!! Just follow the Jelavic road... and bring the Count Stracqualursi) on together with Big Vic, who could really disturb the Liverpool back four.
Paul Johnson
465   Posted 02/04/2012 at 17:52:51

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We can debate motivational factors and team selections for winning the cup all day and night...and we often do!

What needs to happen is for Moyes to strap a pair on and tell those mighty boys in blue to get out there and take the game to the opposition.

We've been waiting 10 years for him to realise that's what it takes to *win* games - not shade them 1-0 - and we've seen the results recently. It's no coincidence. We've taken the game to Swansea and Sunderland and won difficult games comfortablly.

In fairness to DM he may have been waiting for the right group of players to be at his disposal, rather than just being nauturally defensive minded. You never know :-)

So, come on DM...let's see some more of the recent bravery and take the game to the other lot and put a load of goals past them. They've never been at a lower ebb, so let's make the most if it. Please.

Mike Gaynes
477   Posted 02/04/2012 at 18:30:33

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John, we have "bottled it in the big games"? What team have you been watching? I think we've done a great job against the biggest teams over the past few seasons.

I agree with an attacking mindset, but ONLY against the RS in the semi. In the final, I would definitely want to see the same contain-and-counter tactics we used to beat Spurs and Chelsea in recent weeks. I think it would be foolish to change what has worked so well against those two sides.
Jimmy Sørheim
479   Posted 02/04/2012 at 18:38:17

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If anyone thinks that Liverpool will take a derby lightly then you are deluded.
Have you forgot how easy Liverpool beat us 3-0 and 2-0.
There is nothing that can prepare us for a derby semi-final, we just have to field our strongest side possible and hope for the best.

I feel confident that we will do well in the league, but the cup is a different matter.
It depends on Drenthe coming back or not, and that the Fellaini-Gibson partnership is not broken up.
Also we will need to score goals and David Moyes has a terrible record against the red shites.

You can bet on Moyes being too respectful of them and he may even change the team around again in a way that makes the team weaker.

My main point is that there are too many things against Moyes, and history tends to repeat itself, 10 years without a trophy already.

It is a hard game to predict, the ref. might blow it for us like the sending off at Goodison.(Rodwell)
Players might feel the pressure and do stupid things.(Heitinga)
This game is a lot more open than recent form shows us.
I hope we win, and I hope Drenthe will be back and scores the winning goal.

We are 2 difficult games away from glory.
Let us hope this can act as a stepping stone for us, and that Moyes signs Drenthe in the summer.
Then if we also can sign Pienaar or Donovan our trips to Europe will be much more pleasant to watch.
I can see a light in the tunnel.....
Mark Riding
482   Posted 02/04/2012 at 19:10:11

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Learn from the past you say..

Well, its modern Everton 'History' not old school.. but a Wembley Semi-final is not the final. It may well seem like it, but it isnt.
Beating United in the Semi at Wembley last time.. In my opinion ( so I will take the stick ! ) seemed like winning the FA Cup. Getting re-motivated for Chelsea seemed to be harder than it was for the semi.

If we do turn Liverpool over, then I guess I will feel the same again. The 'victims' say playing them is our cup final every time we play eachother..
So my question is.. will beating Liverpool at Wembley be just as good as winning the whole thing ?
God willing.. will the Final itself just be a bonus or have we really got the winning attitude to move forward and leave the lovable reds behind ??
An Everton captain holding the old trophy up would be immense..
Come on you blues.
Keith Glazzard
483   Posted 02/04/2012 at 18:03:34

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The Wembley pitch is almost exactly the same size as Goodison's, so no need to base team selection on that. But as John Crawley and others know, how far up the field our defence is set is crucial. Denying them possession is much better than defending against it, and we are actually quite good art using possession when we have it.

Heitinga at the back (with Jags or Distin, I don't mind), the addition of Gibson who has liberated both Fellaini and Osman and the threat of Jelavic mean that we can take on anybody with confidence. Comparisons between now and three years ago could be useful, but, for example, Ossie is a much different player and - we hope - given much more opportunity to use his skill on the ball.

And yes, we should be able to win the semifinal, but never forget, when a beast is wounded, it can be at its most dangerous. But at least, it is now recognised that they are cheating bastards. I wonder who the ref will be?

After that, any London club will be the media darlings which will be annoying but will take pressure off us. And yes, Coleman may get his medal, but only if Bale is playing. Some of us think we won't see Drenthe again (hope we're wrong), and although he put in a decent performance on Saturday, I don't think Gueye is ready for the first team yet. And in any case, we would be much more likely to see Neville and Hibbert in the starting line-up, which would take us back to where we were early season. If he adds either Heitinga or Jagielka to midfield, that would take us back to the dark ages.

But - we're talking about a manager who sacrificed a derby to win an FA Cup round. Surely he has to go for this one.
Barry Rathbone
490   Posted 02/04/2012 at 19:40:45

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If we play with the same mindset as the Sunderland and Swansea games we'll beat the filth, in fact I'd fancy us against anyone.

If Moyes reverts to type and we start that cagey holding shite we'll get stuffed, and rightly so.

Enough trouser shitting at the very sight of a liver bird enough bad luck excuses (you make your own luck look at that og at sunderland) knock 'em on their arse and get to the final.

Winning the thing is what it's about.
Dave Wilson
491   Posted 02/04/2012 at 20:00:26

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Suarez and Gerrard may be the most disagreeable pair in football, but they are capable of doing damage to any team in the world. Unfortunately we don't have anybody of their ability in our ranks but, if we can keep those two quiet, our superiority in other areas should see us home.

We are probably the outsiders of four with most fans, we definitely are with the bookies and rightly so... but that suits us.

I get really pissed off when people point the finger at Ossie and Hibbert for the defeat in 2009. We were comprehensively outplayed all over the park by a vastly superior team. I don't see that happening again. This Chelsea team is not as good as the 2009 team and I don't fear Spurs as I think we have seen the best of them this season.

Moyes has more or less everyone available ? that's unusual for us. When the important games come around, he must use his squad wisely, make sure nobody picks up niggling injuries through fatigue, and substitute anybody who has received a yellow in what are now comparatively meaningless league games.

This has been a twat of a season, but with reasonable luck and good management there's no reason why it shouldn't end in glory.
James Stewart
498   Posted 02/04/2012 at 20:58:53

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Agree with Barry @490 spot on.

I fear the latter will be the case though and we will be set up extremely negative!
Dick Fearon
516   Posted 02/04/2012 at 22:45:27

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Dave #491, In that final, Osman did not just have a bad game he completely disappeared, non-existent, gone, invisible, there was nothing there, if he wasn't nailed on he would have fallen off the perch. Monty Pythons Norwegian Blue would have had more impact!

If we get past the RS, and that in itself won't be easy, should it be Chelsea in the final, I can imaging the chavs praying for Leon to be selected.
Roman Sidey
525   Posted 02/04/2012 at 23:46:17

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As much as Hibbert has been an improvement (!) this season, if we're to win the cup, we need Neville at RB.

Against the Victims, we needs his leadership and his experience. In the final, he knows how to contain Bale, and Ashley Cole will be shatting himself at the thought of a defensive side comprising Phil and Johnny.

As good as Osman has been in spurts this season too, derbies and cup finals aren't exactly where he excels. I think he'd be of his best use to the squad if he played all the games against teams below us, as they are the games he tends to pop up in with a goal.
David Hallwood
530   Posted 03/04/2012 at 00:27:09

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Ahhh, yet another thread that has turned into a Hibbert and Osman are shite thread
James Stewart
535   Posted 03/04/2012 at 01:00:19

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It's not that Osman and Hibbert are shite. They arent. But on that day they were playing shite and we were getting killed down our right side. Everyone come see it yet Moyes made no changes and we got deservedly beaten. I hope he has learnt from it.
Eric Myles
543   Posted 03/04/2012 at 02:56:09

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Keith #483, "I wonder who the ref will be?"

I read on an Everton website last night it will be Clattenberg!!

But I don't know how reliable that is.
Eric Myles
544   Posted 03/04/2012 at 03:07:56

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^ignore that.

"The FA has announced that Howard Webb will referee the Merseyside derby semi-final and that Martin Atkinson will take charge of the other match."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/30/chelsea-fa-cup-semi-final
http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/More/match-officials
Mick Davies
545   Posted 03/04/2012 at 04:09:56

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Tony J Williams makes the assertion that Hibbert wasn't fit for the 09 final. Well why did Moyes pick him when he had a better right back on the bench, Jacobsen, who came on and shored up the right hand side, albeit too late to reverse the outcome?

And Mike Gaynes expresses the view that Moyes wouldn't contemplate an insane move for a second!!! Well where have you been hiding for the last 10 years? Moyes is the king of insane selections. The most ridiculous being his "insane" changes for the last derby.

In my opinion, he MUST play Neville at right back and not have Anichebe anywhere near the pitch. He should rest key players v Sunderland to prevent injuries or suspensions.

He preached for years of how the league was priority over cups, yet the disgrace of the derby defeat shows his volte face with this philosophy so he must stay consistent and play a lot of the fringe players. The cup is his best route to a trophy and his 'insane' selections must be kicked into touch ? before he is.
Russell Buckley
551   Posted 03/04/2012 at 07:27:18

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Agree with starting Neville over Hibbert in these matches but I'm not saying that because I've been angry with Hibbert this year.

Also don't want to see Osman on a wing. I rate hims as a player but we have better wide options and its a waste of Osman's talent out there.
Paul Mackie
556   Posted 03/04/2012 at 09:08:24

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If I could have two wishes (that's all I need, lets not be greedy) we'd have Pienaar not be cup tied and would have signed Donovan in January. With those two in the squad I genuinely believe our name would be on the cup.

Even without though, this is without doubt the worst Liverpool side I've seen in my lifetime. Yes, we've lost twice to them this season. One of those games was played with 10 men and the other was when Moyes rested 6 players. With a first choice squad and barring any madness from the ref we can absolutely beat the RS. Not only that, but they'll be without Reina thanks to his "headbutt" at the weekend. For all Moyes' talk about us being the underdogs, I think in most peoples minds it's the opposite.

If we get to the final (which we really should) then I think it'll be a completely different affair to last time as long as Moyes sticks to the players who are performing and doesn't get tempted to go with "experience" over form.
Adam Luszniak
558   Posted 03/04/2012 at 09:12:17

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Agree Neville definitely adds experience and is worth putting in over hibbo in a cup game. Not sure about the assertion that Osman is only suited to lower table opposition. Surely you play your in form available players in any game you can? I'd say Ossie's form merits appearances in the semi.

Where we play him on the other hand is a difficult one. Out right perhaps isn't his natural position but he has played there recently to some effect because he's been allowed to cut inside towards the middle of the pitch instead of go for the byline like Coleman tends to do.

On another note does anyone think Cahill looks like he might be getting some of his old fire back? Certainly putting in the effort and some of the headers he's fired towards goal recently looked far more like the Cahill of old. I'd say he's indispensable to a derby semi final on the basis of effort and experience alone. Plus let's face it a lot of our attacking play comes from Baines floating balls into the box and with Cahill and Jelly on the field i think we're more likely to make use of Baines' crossing.
Tony J Williams
559   Posted 03/04/2012 at 09:07:22

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Mick, what score was it when Hibbert went off? Better right back,? the fella couldn't finish 90 minutes and where is he now exactly?

I'm with you all the way about Anichebe....however, he is probably our most prolific scorer this season for goals to games ration.......did I just really type that?
Mike Gwyer
564   Posted 03/04/2012 at 09:45:14

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Anthony.

Your one lucky fucker if you think the RS are not up for it, regarding the semi. They are already taking the piss, goading, reminding us of the recent 3 nothing battering and talking about Stevie fucking G sticking the ball into our net.

Neville is a cert - unless his legs drop off. Anyways, he totally took Maclean out of the game at Sunderland. He is a defo, along with Felli & Gibson. Osman turns it on against open teams, teams that will allow him space. Well, there's not a fucking chance of that against the scum, hence I'm hoping that Coleman is fit.

Also hoping that Drenthe is sober as he gives us more options - plus he can watch the masters of diving, maybe even learn a few things. Jeez even Drenthe must of gringed, or been rather impressed, at watching Caroll dive rather than just put the ball into the net.

Mark Murphy
566   Posted 03/04/2012 at 10:34:26

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Eric, #543,
You're 2 days late mate ? the 1st was Sunday!

I nearly choked on my coffee and crisps!
Dick Fearon
568   Posted 03/04/2012 at 10:45:40

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To win the cup, Moyes must learn from the past...

That's that then!
Anthony Jones
571   Posted 03/04/2012 at 11:14:04

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Interesting responses.

The main point of this article isn't that I can pick a side more likely to win the cup than Moyes, but that we have been totally outclassed in an FA Cup final recently, and that we threw away a Carling Cup semi-final in the previous year despite the opposition playing with only 10 men for almost a third of the game. Don't forget either, we scraped through the FA Cup semi-final on penalties against a significantly under strength Man U side.

Barry Rathbone, #490, has a similar view to mine. We can play really well, as we did against Sunderland and Swansea, but I fear that Moyes will not change his basic approach to these big cup-ties in either the final or semi-final this year, in that we will defend deep and not get enough shots on target.

Do those of you who recall the home victories aginst Chelsea and Tottenham not think that playing defend and counter on a neutral ground might swing the odds in their favour?
Joel Durkin
572   Posted 03/04/2012 at 11:27:32

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To be honest, I would fancy us against anyone in England right now, the European competitions this year have shown that British teams aren't what they were 2/3 years ago, and we are playing well and scoring at the moment.

Moyes just needs to make sure he keeps the form up, and the momentum going by delivering wins in the league.
Kevin Tully
574   Posted 03/04/2012 at 11:35:23

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My Team for semi's ;

Howard
Neville, Distin, Heitinga, Baines,
Osman, Gibson, Fellaini, Cahill, Drenthe
Jelavic
Daniel A Johnson
576   Posted 03/04/2012 at 12:12:37

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The key here is that Jags stays away from the first team.

Since Heitinga has found his feet hes been the world cup finalist we thought he was always going to be.

This is Moyes biggest test, my only problem is he is a derby bottler, his record is rubbish againts the shite and I just think this will be another nail in his will I ever get a trophy coffin.
Aiden Jones
577   Posted 03/04/2012 at 12:16:25

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I agree we must learn from the past and being too respectful of the opposition or negative are mistakes we have made in the past. It has rightly been pointed out that Chelsea team in 09 was a very strong one and better than anything in the competition now.

However... Barkley coming on to save the game and Coleman at FB are not realistic changes.
James Morgan
582   Posted 03/04/2012 at 13:03:48

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With our record against Sunderland being pretty damn good, I wonder if Moyes might make 8 - 10 changes before the semi with the likes of Straq, Vic, McFadden, Duffy, Baxter, Vellios all getting game time.
Roman Sidey
584   Posted 03/04/2012 at 13:31:26

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I honestly think that if we here at Toffeeweb were selectors for Everton, that this thread would have been one of the best discussions/selection meetings in a while, in as much as everyone is being quite balanced and respectful. Perhaps it is the after effect of Michael and Lyndon's article the other day or the fact that most people are feeling pretty confident about the team at the moment. Regardless, I'm impressed by everyone's input. Oh, and whatever medication Doddy started/stopped taking...
Keith Glazzard
628   Posted 03/04/2012 at 18:34:11

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James - interesting options. We now actually have a problem of defending points to stay ahead of guess who. But I suspect that having thrown a derby, Moyes will put everything into the semi and you may be right, a bit at least.

Eric - Webb had to be the banker for this one. Hope he's got over his Heitingaphobia. He will at least have the whole country looking at him for this one, so he might control his yellow card pocket more carefully.

The Clattenberg option? Moyes would have to reveal at last what he knows about the great man's conduct that day. The FA may be thick, but they're not stupid. Really looking forward to his return to Goodison though.
Richard Dodd
644   Posted 03/04/2012 at 20:14:01

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KITAHTNO will undoubtedly be the order of the day although I do feel this team is beginning `to have a mind of its own`. I suspect that Neville will be at right-back with Gueye on left wing. Moyesie will prefer Jags to Distin and look to see Anichebe get the winner in extra time!
Adam Luszniak
653   Posted 03/04/2012 at 20:36:19

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Not sure about KITAHTNO Doddy, it's definitely been the order of play for the majority of the season, but I think that anything short of really going for it in the semi will result in a loss. As already stated, crap though this Liverpool may be, Gerrard has already shown what he can do this season.

Moyes capitulated once, but only to concentrate on getting us were we are now in the Cup. I really think that this time he will play a midfield that doesn't contain any defenders, and now that we have some teeth up front in the form of jelavic, that we will go for it.
Graham Mockford
657   Posted 03/04/2012 at 21:10:25

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I remember getting inside Wembley and realising before the game we were fucked. It must have been 90 degrees Fahrenheit pitches inside.
Against a undoubtedly superior side our only chance was to play a high pressing game and on that day it was impossible.
I wouldn't worry about the lessons of the past just pray it's a nice mild day.
Also Liverpool are not in the same league as that Chelsea team.
Jamie Tulacz
660   Posted 03/04/2012 at 21:30:06

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Feel that the dark side have had the psychological edge on us in recent derbys in the league. Don't think that'll be quite the same in the cup though, I'm sure we'll be pumped up for it and can't see a repeat of the recent derby performance.

We've shown a couple of years ago in our run to the final that we're capable of beating the big teams on our way to the final. Just a shame that we're playing a s***e one really..
Derek Thomas
665   Posted 03/04/2012 at 22:21:10

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Most Semi's are KITAHTN1 for both sides, you don't see many 7 goal thrillers. But we and Moyes have to remember that it is Knockout, sudden death, winner takes all. So unless you play for the risky penalty lottery a draw is no good.

If we play total KITAHTN1We have to be lucky ALL the time, they only have to lucky ONCE.

We have to go out to try to win it, not try not to lose it.

If we don't do that and bottle it we don't derserve it
Dick Fearon
670   Posted 03/04/2012 at 22:52:15

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Kevin # 574, Osman on one of our flanks leaves us wide open to fast counter attacks. Johnson and Enrique two of the speediest, most physical and skilled fullbacks would be licking their lips at the chance of facing Osman. those two will likely be backed up by Downing and Bellamy who are also among the quickest of players.
With that scenario in mind I can see another Chelsea type of game looming.
They say that a sign of lunacy is to keep repeating the same mistake.
Then again its Moyes who picks the team, lord help us!
Anthony Jones
787   Posted 04/04/2012 at 13:43:03

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Some more info. I dredged up on our 2009 Wembley ties (Sky Sports):

Man U: 10 shots, 54% possession Everton: 7 shots, 46% possession

Chelsea: 12 shots, 61% possession
Everton: 6 shots, 39% possession

I know that player ratings are subjective, but the following scores out of ten from the final should be a warning to Moyes:

Hibbert - 4
Osman - 5
Neville - 6
Cahill - 6
Howard - 5
Baines - 5
Fellaini - 6

It is of particular note that Cahill, Osman and Fellaini only scored 6 each in the semi-final, which we won.

I am concerned that Dick, #670, may be correct. Fingers crossed he's not.
Dave Wilson
812   Posted 04/04/2012 at 16:22:23

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Cahill and Neville were walk through easy for Chelsea and their midfield dominance was total.

Thats and the fact that our goalie had a weston were the real reasons we lost that final. When the Hibbert and Ossie flank was broken up the match was still all square.

They hardly covered themselves in glory but to try to cover up for Neville and Cahill having the floor wiped with them is embarressing.

If we really are going to learn from our mistakes, we first have to recognise and acknowledged what they are. Playing two non footballers like Neville and Cahill against a quality midfield on a big pitch like Wembley was the biggest mistake Moyes made that day.

Ossie's got more skill in his little toe than these two put together and must start in midfield with Fella and Gibson

Jon Cox
819   Posted 04/04/2012 at 16:52:33

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It may seem obvious but the KITAHTN1 is just NOT going to work in this game.

To think a 1-0 or to play for one will be complete suicide. Once that first goal goes in, if Moyes hasn't drilled our lads to fight tooth and nail for the second then it's defo curtains for us. The team on the 14th who only score one will lose.

In fact I think its safe to say one goal is not an option.

Looking at Kevs team, 574 at first I thought here we go, Oz wide right. But looking at midfield there's no place else for him to go. One other thing that needs saying is that Moyes has to adopt a more fluid approach to our attack.

By all means start Drenthe (if he plays) on the left but if after 20 mins its not working then switch him over to the right were he can cut inside and use the power of his shot that we all know he has in his locker.

Also if Timmy tires mid second half take him off with Osman put Drenthe in the hole with free license to do and go where ever he chooses and bring on Coleman and Gueye on either flank. Not sure why I'm writing this really cos Moyes should know all this stuff. Trouble is he never seems to use these fundemental type of tactical changes.

Lastly the one thing we shouldn't give the shite is any respect whatsoever.

Just prior to going out on the pitch Moyes should have the "Net" wired up in the changing room and get the chant by Emlyn Hughes that "Liverpool are magic Everton are tragic" after winning a cup. Then, nice and quietly say to the boys,

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT !!

Hee hee heeee what a wind up....





Dick Fearon
852   Posted 04/04/2012 at 21:47:35

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KITAHTNO !, WTFDTM?
Jon Cox
860   Posted 04/04/2012 at 22:25:42

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Dick, Keep It Tight And Hope To Nick One,

I think.
Kev Johnson
863   Posted 04/04/2012 at 22:40:04

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Took me a little while to work it out, I must admit.

When I first saw it, I thought it was our team for a new 8-a-side tournament : Koleman, Itinger, Tim1, Anichebe, Hibbert, Tim2, Neville, Osman.

I'll get my coat...
Brian Waring
440   Posted 08/04/2012 at 13:33:51

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This is the worst Shite team I have ever seen, they are in dissarray, they have spent a fortune on players who just aren't doing it, are low on confidence, even a lot of their lads I speak to think we'll turn them over, and for once, they are genuinely worried about us.

There can be no excuses, Moyes has to go for it from the off, if he shows them too much respect, and tries to keep it tight, and nick one, they'll turn us over.
Ray Roche
443   Posted 08/04/2012 at 13:42:33

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Brian, at face value they ARE the worst RS side for decades, however, I read that they've hit the woodwork over 30 times this season, three times yesterday, so you don't have to be Stephen Hawking to realise that their league position would be a lot better if they had their usual luck. Or if their pact with the Devil hadn't expired.

They battered Villa yesterday and have, apparently, played a lot better than their results would have you believe or better than the constant whingeing from their spolit, deluded fans would have you believe as they bombard radio phone ins with their slagging off of Queen Kenny.

I am no where NEAR as confident as I should be.... And my kecks are almost full...
Brian Waring
446   Posted 08/04/2012 at 13:56:25

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Ray, as the lad on the Sunday supplement pounted out this morning, hitting the woodwork all them times isn't bad luck, it means it's just bad finishing.

They only reason I'm not 100% confident that we'll turn them over is not because of the Shite but because of how Moyes will approach the game.
Ray Roche
450   Posted 08/04/2012 at 14:26:50

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That's true, Brian, but you would think that a team experiencing that much poor finishing/stroke bad luck would be exerting a degree of pressure on their opponents in the same way that the Shite did against an admittedly poor Villa side. We have all bemoaned our own "bad luck" when we've hit the woodwork so we can only admit to the RS "bad luck" when they do it.

Some lads on Everton fan sites are still banging on about us winning 3-0, 4-0 etc., having learnt nothing from the last Derby when we lost comfortably to the worst RS side in years. It's a Derby. Anyone who turns up (with the correctly picked team!) can win.
James Martin
452   Posted 08/04/2012 at 14:57:12

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I also remember in the Chelsea final having our three best players injured. No Arteta, Jagielka or Yakubu against what was probably the best team in Europe at the time. Yes Cahill, Neville, Fellaini, Osman & Hibbert got ran through, but what were people expecting?

It wasn't because Moyes lost his bottle or wilted or anything like that, it was because Chelsea were unbelievably superior to us. Lampard and Essien in the middle, Cole and Malouda down the flanks with Drogba up front. They had quality all over the ptich and all we had was hard work and effort without our three best players.

Even with them it would have been extremely difficult; without them it was practically impossible but I'm sure if Moyes had just 'gone for it' or 'been attacking' we could have easily negated their superiority.
Amit Vithlani
472   Posted 08/04/2012 at 19:24:31

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I think its been said already but displaying the same attitude shown against Sunderland will see us through.

We don't need to go all guns blazing, it will be about playing with tempo and pace. Its easy to forget following the horrible second half that the RS defence was poor, we had a few chances in the first half (Rodwell and Jelly missed presentable chances in the second). If we play with tempo we will get opportunities.

Defensively the key will be our centre halves and the keeper. Kenny's tactics revolve around getting the ball wide and peppering the area with crosses. Howard and the centre half combo need to work on when he will stick or twist.
Tony Twist
478   Posted 08/04/2012 at 21:12:57

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I am not confident to be honest, if there's anyone who is going to be turned over it will be us. We were wide open at times against Norwich through the middle which is just what the RS are hoping for. We will have to play the best we have played this season to beat them and that is with us taking our chances when we get them. It's great to see how well Jelly is settling in but the other "attackers" in the team need to chip in with some goals regularly so we can create some fear factor and get the RS worrying about defending not attacking. If we can do that then it's the final here we come!
Paul Wharton
479   Posted 08/04/2012 at 21:50:13

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This is the worst Liverpool team for 50 years, they have been garbage for the last 4 years.
So just go out and beat them like Wigan and QPR, we have a better team than them, this is Moyes time now to show he can get the tactics right, no more excuses.
Stephen Sullivan
481   Posted 08/04/2012 at 22:17:04

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Liverpool's defense is bound to be fragile and nervy. Their untried keeper will inevitably be vulnerable, especially in the first 15/20 minutes. Even if Agger, Johnson and the other young full back return they will not be familiar with the keeper. They are all ring rusty too and lacking match sharpness. We have to go at them straight from the off with an attacking formation. Those first few minutes could win the game. Get an early goal and they will panic. However, play it cagey and the keeper will grow in confidence and with it their whole defense.

A repeat of the approach at Sunderland will do nicely
Thomas Williams
484   Posted 08/04/2012 at 23:12:25

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I agree with Stephen 481, we must go at them with pace otherwise they will pick us off, they are masters of the european style game, play it slow and we will lose, go at them down the flanks and take our chances and we will win, first 10-15 minutes is the key.

Regarding the team, Howard, Neville, Johnny, Distin and Baines.
Fellaini, Gibson, Osman and ? Cahill and Jelavic.
Whichever way we look at it without Pienaar our midfield is imbalanced, I would presume if fit Coleman will play pushing Ossie out to the left.

Would anyone here leave Cahill out and go with 5 in the middle? with Ossie and Fellaini pushing on?
Phil Bellis
486   Posted 09/04/2012 at 01:06:46

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Bollocks to all this crap
Moyesy's team talk should be brief, simple, to the point and this very slight paraphrase of the best battle plan in literature...

Grant Naylor
Polymorph
Lister: well, I say let's get out there and twat `em
Eric Myles
488   Posted 09/04/2012 at 03:02:02

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I think the last 20 minutes will be key for the referee.

I've noticed in their last 2 games they've become increasingly desperate in that period and been dropping like flies as soon as an opposition player comes near them. They also increase their foul rate.

We'll need a strong ref to cut out that cheating bullshit.
Anto Byrne
492   Posted 09/04/2012 at 03:36:47

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Who are the officials this coming Saturday? It used to be that the top four used to get all the decisions. Look at Man Utd getting a penalty for nothing in the QPR game. The tendancy for officials to favour these clubs worries me more.

The team they put out we should be able to beat, hopefully someone like Cahill can rise to the occasion as he wont we warming the bench along with Neville and he is due for a brace. Of course I don't care where the goals come from so long as we can get more than them.

Perhaps a pile driver from Gibson testing their inexperienced keeper will be the order of the day. It's against the shite and our record against them for the last 10 years does not make good reading. Fingers crossed for a 2-0 win.

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