With the squad we had at the start of the season, we were always likely to struggle. It?s only down to the signings of Pienaar, Jelavic and Gibson that we?ve turned things around. These three players who have come in have all performed excellently since their arrival at Everton.
The only disappointment since the end of the January transfer window was our humiliating loss to Liverpool. In the aftermath of this defeat, many Evertonians who previously were big fans of David Moyess started to wonder whether he was the right man to take us forward.
After that infamous capitulation, numerous articles appeared on ToffeeWeb, probably the most interesting was the one about his awful record in derby games. The author pointed out quite rightly that, rather than being hated by Liverpool?s support, David Moyes is actually quite liked by kopites which is unheard of for an Everton manager.
The chant of "Ten More Years!" was sung from the Kop; to me, this should be Moyes?s greatest incentive to beat Liverpool at Wembley on the 14 April. Last time I went to Wembley for both the semi-final and final, most Everton fans including me didn?t expect much. Most people didn?t give us a chance until the Man Utd team sheet was read out.
Despite the changes made by United we only managed one decent effort on goal in the entire game, but all was forgotten after the joys of the penalty shootout. In the build-up to the final, there was real optimism on the streets of the city: we?d got 2 decent 0 - 0 draws against Chelsea in the Premier League and many fans were quietly confident of beating them.
Our fans that day were a credit to the club; even at 10am in the morning, Everton fans were on the streets of London, singing away. Unfortunately, the players didn?t perform as well as the fans but most people accepted we?d had a great season and it was always going to be hard to beat a full-strength Chelsea with the injuries we had.
Now, 3 years later, we go into a game facing one of the worst Liverpool sides in history, yet many Everton fans are less confident of getting a victory than we were 3 years ago. For some reason, David Moyes has an awful record against Liverpool despite creating a side that can challenge some of the best teams in the Premier League, when they feel up to it. He has only managed 4 victories against Liverpool, which is atrocious considering they have largely been awful for the last 10 years.
It doesn?t matter how good we are or how bad they are ? they always seem to beat us. At Anfield this year, Liverpool fans were delighted when they read the team news as they knew that Moyes had let them off the hook and given his fellow Scot an easy victory.
I don?t believe Moyes has ever understood just how much derby games mean to Everton fans. he probably believes the friendly derby myth that we all hug each other after the game and we?re not bothered if we lose. Losing to Liverpool is like nothing else in life: for the next 2 weeks, you can?t enjoy any activity, you avoid reading newspapers and watching sports programmes ? anything that could possibly remind you of the defeat.
I have to say our 3 - 0 loss was the worst defeat against Liverpool I?ve witnessed during my time as an Everton fan. In my opinion, David Moyes simply cannot afford to lose the upcoming semi-final; I don?t believe even the biggest Moyes supporter could take 3 defeats to Liverpool in one season.
I think the game against Liverpool is Moyes?s final test: if he fails, I think he won?t be forgiven by the Everton support. Even his supporters will ask what the point was of playing a reserve side in the league with the view to winning the FA Cup when we lose to Liverpool again?
Employees of Everton should focus only on beating Liverpool, and not get distracted by all the talk of Hillsborough before the game. The fans going to game should show that we are the best fans on Merseyside.
Moyes needs to show the world that he really is a great manager and pass this final test by beating Liverpool at Wembley ? all his shortcomings will be forgotten, and he's always be a hero in our eyes.
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948 Posted 05/04/2012 at 14:38:19
The whole point of throwing the league game was to get to this point. There's no way that every single player isn't going to be up for it.
The RS on the other hand can be as up for it as they want, take away Gerrard/Suarez and they're a relegation fodder team of average players.
I don't fear any of the teams left in the cup. Liverpool are shit, Spurs are flagging badly and Chelsea are playing some of the worst football I've seen them play in years.
951 Posted 05/04/2012 at 14:45:56
I will dine out on it for years.
957 Posted 05/04/2012 at 14:57:14
Now those games are forgotten and the same is being said about the Semi. If we do win the semi, that achievement will be forgotten about almost instantly and we lose the final, it'll be because Moyes can't handle the big occasions ? forgetting the big occasions of the quarter- and semi-final. It happened in 2009.
Moyes's Everton beat Utd, Liverpool and Villa just to get to the final ? all of whom were in the top 4 at the time. A fantastic achievement ? but Chelsea, probably the best team in Europe and with loads of experience of cup finals, beat us and it's because Moyes shit out. Unbelievable really.
I'll be gutted if we get beat, especially as a ticket cost me over £200, but if we do, it's because we were second best on the day. I'll be giving him some credit for getting us this far.
959 Posted 05/04/2012 at 15:47:09
961 Posted 05/04/2012 at 15:42:35
Mark Stone well put.
Moyes probably wants a win as much as any one on here - and from where I sit you have to believe that the lord of luck will one day give us a break, just a sniff of luck, just something that gets those red shirted norwegians screeching at the ref. I would love just one game where a decision, that was so blantantly wrong, go in favour of the blues. Just one.
964 Posted 05/04/2012 at 15:56:36
Can you imagine that sour little twat from over there saying anything good about us? No, neither can I... The sad part of it is, they are absolutely shit, and well beatable. But I always get the feeling Moyes is scared of them.
And, as you've said yourself, his record against them is atrocious. I'd be as happy as anytime in my life if we do them... but I just can't see it happening. I hope to the great gods Dixie, Labby and Bally, I'm wrong but I'm bracing myself for disappointment. That's the way I am with this manager.
966 Posted 05/04/2012 at 16:11:56
I think you will find, like with 2009, after all of us have stopped bitching, we will move on and begin to hope that maybe next year will be our year....and the cycle continues,
"and pass this final test by beating Liverpool" - The final test will be to actually win the thing, not just beating Liverpool, it means nothing it we beat the shite and then lose to Spuds/Chelski
968 Posted 05/04/2012 at 16:17:34
Also, I remember coming away from the 2009 final with different feelings to the 'Moyes shit out' ones you describe. I thought on that day we were very unlucky to go in without so many of our best players, and still give it a go. The biggest criticism I had that day, was that I thought after Howard got a full hand to Lampards shot for the second goal, he should have palmed it wide.
969 Posted 05/04/2012 at 16:36:49
971 Posted 05/04/2012 at 16:45:38
973 Posted 05/04/2012 at 16:59:32
It's also worth remembering that the Final in 2009 saw us without the spine of our team, Jags, Arteta and the Yak.
974 Posted 05/04/2012 at 16:57:37
I was fortunate to be at the finals in 84,85,86 and 95.
I also had spare tickets for each game, through having a season ticket and also through work.
On each occasion my ticket went to a blue on Wembley Way for Face Value.
If No-one offered the £500+ then they would have to sell them for less.
As the saying goes Hold Your Nerve>
976 Posted 05/04/2012 at 17:03:04
979 Posted 05/04/2012 at 17:01:17
983 Posted 05/04/2012 at 17:06:07
He respects them way too much, he never goes out to attack them head on, always that God boring 4-4-1-1/ 451 formation that makes any football fan want to vomit
He even reverts back to being ultra defensive when pressured.
I am so sick of it, no wonder they want him to go on another 10 years.
Hold out and nick one is what Moyes reverts to during these games.
Just like he did against Man.City.
Watching the Blackburn-United game I heard the fans screaming:ATTACK,ATTACK,ATTACK,
it made me think, how often do we as Everton fans demand that Moyes goes out to attack,attack,attack during a game?
We have the ultimate chance to beat Liverpool in the semi final, they are on a really bad streak, and seem to have lost it.
Problem is the derby game gives them the chance to strike back and hit form again, and we all know what that means.
Moyes pulls all his players back into his own half defending and that makes us so easy to beat.
Cahill is a midfielder, not an attacker, when we do not have the ball he becomes a defensive midfielder chasing after the ball.
While Jelavic is left to chase lost causes never getting a touch of the ball.
I pray that we do not get beat, but looking at Moyes and his history with the red shites I have to say I fear we will not reach the final.
We must start the game lively and get the first goal, that is our key to beating them.
986 Posted 05/04/2012 at 17:52:23
Imagine if exactly the same players that currently represent them all played for, say, Stoke, and we were drawn against Stoke in the SF. Would any Everton fan expect to lose?
No chance, we'd all be booking our weekend in London on Cup Final Day. Only Moyes can cost us this game if he sends us out with that sickening inferiority complex that grips him against the RS.
Man for man, we are far superior, especially with Reina suspended. If we play with that shameful defensive mentality in this SF then we will lose, simply because Moyes will have brainwashed the players into believing that we cannot win.
Moyes has to stand up and be counted and finally learn what it means to be the manager of the greatest football club in the world.
988 Posted 05/04/2012 at 18:17:28
991 Posted 05/04/2012 at 18:36:04
And as for this being a final. No, it isn't. It's a game we need to win to reach the final, then we need to win that.
992 Posted 05/04/2012 at 18:29:01
I have terrible nightmares over this game... One part of me believes we can win but my mind then wanders back to all the derbies I have seen over the Years... I am 50 in June and we have never ever beaten the Shite when it really really mattered, ie, in semi-finals or finals.
I have been present at them all stretching back to the bad old days of semis at Maine Road... Clive Thomas, McDermott's chip, Milk Cup replay defeat (again at Maine Road), Wembley twice, Rush the heartbreak of 89 ? it's all fresh to me. I despise the twats and just this once pray for us to beat them... I just don't trust Moyes to do the right thing.
Johnny H dropped or played in midfield, Hibbert given a start... etc etc etc.
014 Posted 05/04/2012 at 21:20:06
015 Posted 05/04/2012 at 21:27:50
Moyes has been making the negative waves for years.
He's our very own Oddball.
017 Posted 05/04/2012 at 21:47:39
I am talking about the semi final against Liverpool, not the recent league games.
019 Posted 05/04/2012 at 21:54:37
The only reason we got to the final last time was because SAF played an almost reserve side... well, at least an under-strength side... and despite having virtually no chances in the whole game, we just got through on pens.
That's why Moyes fills me with a sense of paranoia whenever we play THEM! It's so negative from me, this, I know... but I just know it's all going to end in tears.
FFS, just once please let it be us!!!
The hard part to take will be knowing that they are a truly awful side so please Moyes be positive... and, well, you never know!
022 Posted 05/04/2012 at 22:24:32
026 Posted 05/04/2012 at 23:29:13
027 Posted 05/04/2012 at 23:24:32
Most if not all of the others are the same 50% the proportions vary good 1st quarter poor 2nd quarter etc. some have had 2or 3 good games and 2 or 3 bad ones. They mostly come in at 50something points and an 11th to 5th place finish.
They all seem to taper off towards the end as the 40+ ' target' is passed and for the last 3 - 4 or is that 4 - 5 seasons he has refined them with the poor start.
Yes I know all the outside reasons he can do nothing about. It's the stuff that he CAN control and change if he wanted, but doesn't that keep him in the ' merely' good catagory.
He is never going to be great, he has too much KITATTN1 to do that.
Harry Catterick is rightly remembered for all his good works, but the Alex Young / Joe Royle thing and selling Alan Ball are mentioned as well.
When Moyes wins the Cup he will be lauded and rightly so, but his faults and mistakes will always be trotted out.
A sort of footballing...nobody remembers when you were right and nobody forgets when you are wrong.
The FA Cup is about the Glory on the day it's a one off. Yes, plenty of better managers than Moyes have won it true, but plenty of Ordinary ones have as well.
One hit wonders. You could cast Moyes as the 60's group the Tremeloes, did well yes, but not be mentioned up there with the Beatles and the Stones.
Moyes wins the 2 games that count this season, that will be the high light of his career. But it won't redeem him, remove all his faults or make him ' great' I will await your post in 2027 to tell me different.
028 Posted 06/04/2012 at 00:06:46
030 Posted 06/04/2012 at 00:16:07
031 Posted 06/04/2012 at 00:15:42
I had a quick look at our results against Liverpool over the last 10 years (excluding this season) and compared them to those against Man U and Arsenal over the same period. (info from here: www.evertonresults.com)
Against Liverpool - W4 D6 L10
Against Arsenal - W3 D4 L13
Against Man U - W2 D4 L13
My point is that Moyes doesn't have a particularly bad record against Liverpool compared to other teams who also consistently finish above us in the table. In fact our win record against Liverpool is better than that against Arsenal, despite the fact that Arsenal have the higher average finishing position of the two.
"I don't buy this It doesn?t matter how good we are or how bad they are ? they always seem to beat us" attitude.
Personally i'm looking forward to showing them how it's done.
034 Posted 06/04/2012 at 01:35:46
So we're supposed to feel better about our poor record against the RS during the Moyes years because our record against Utd and Arsenal is even worse?
It's like saying James Corden isn't THAT much of an annoyingingly smug fat twat when you consider that Chris Moyles and Johnny Vegas are still breathing.
039 Posted 06/04/2012 at 03:00:58
Distin and Heitinga at the back, Gibson and Fellaini man on man, Drenthe and Gueye in the wide spaces of Wembley will cause all sorts of trouble.
We can do this.. it's all about tactics.
041 Posted 06/04/2012 at 03:20:36
We must also walk a fine line Re Hillsborough. We know what we can do as seen Vs Sunderland on the field, that is a known. What is unknown is how much or how little to buy into the pre-game off-field goings on.
I think a couple of well respected non-playing 'names' will have to 'take one for the team' and be embedded into the whole Hillsborough cavalcade and leave the boys to get on with it out of the lime light.
045 Posted 06/04/2012 at 04:13:09
Now that scares me.
Add to that Moyes typical defensive showing against teams he fears, then we are in for a fight to say the least.
I fear a repeat beating, only not by as many goals.
The only way for Moyes to enter the top manager class is if he starts using his best youngsters the right way, and not let them rot away along with their potential in the reserves.
ALso he has to get rid of crap players like Mcfadden and to an extent Anichebe.
Cahill and Neville should be faced out slowly, not play every game like they are now.
Cahill is regarded as a striker, but in truth he is a midfielder who has lost his form due to overplaying, he needs more rest, as do Neville.
Moyes is no more than an average plus manager, his faults have become worse during his 10 year period, not better.
One can hope he will change and work on his mistakes but he clearly is too stubborn to see that.
Still we all support this club and want the best for it, I just think it is important to see him for what he really is, even if he and Kenwright has love for another.
048 Posted 06/04/2012 at 07:22:16
053 Posted 06/04/2012 at 08:57:08
063 Posted 06/04/2012 at 10:13:10
The Hillsborough thing should be left to Sharpy as this is something he knows about and still on the club payroll and leave the team to concentrate on the job in hand.
071 Posted 06/04/2012 at 10:58:50
Liverpool will expect to win.
Moyes will hope to win.
I know that we can win but I also know that with the wrong approach we will be found out.
088 Posted 06/04/2012 at 14:05:58
Everton 2 - Liverpool 0.
183 Posted 07/04/2012 at 10:54:28
As for team selection, expect something similar to the Sunderland replay, with Drenthe replacing Gueye. So Jagielka and Hibbert are likely to start on the bench.
363 Posted 08/04/2012 at 01:32:56
404 Posted 08/04/2012 at 10:24:57
412 Posted 08/04/2012 at 10:36:26
I'll tell you why: Alan Hansen on MotD last night
"If Liverpool win the final, the Americans will be increasingly motivated to invest more money in the club." I wonder what happened to the semi beforehand?
Last week on MotD again:
Lineker: Everton have just gone above Liverpool in the league.
Hansen replied: wait until tomorrow (which referred to the upcoming Newcastle game).
We all saw what happened there!
Yes, the dark side have been unlucky in some of the last few games with refereeing decisions going either way but that happens in most games.
What IS important the refs have cottoned on to RATatouille with his diving, complaining, handballing, getting players sent off routine, not to mention some of the other RS players.....
Please Jelavic, try to avoid the play-acting, like yesterday.
You're too good a footballer .
You were bumped by a Norwich player but the incident was commented on yesterday by that RS Lawrenson!
Everton and Moyes have been much more positive in the last few games, so let's join them and be positive ourselves COYB!!!!
420 Posted 08/04/2012 at 11:33:08
We just have to play our game and not be afraid of them, dirty cheating scum that they are.
438 Posted 08/04/2012 at 13:23:13
Yea, that was great !
Apropos: Dogleash shouldn't be whinging on about getting a hard time from referees when you think about what his team have been up to for most of the season......
On the same theme: Chelsea's manager Di Matteo saying he didn't see that their first goal against Wigan was blatantly off-side.
I've always thought that football managers watch the game pretty closely!
Why not just admit that your team maybe deserved to win but were lucky....
448 Posted 08/04/2012 at 13:44:51
If we win The FA Cup, Moyes will be only the 8th manager in 134 years to win a trophy for Everton and only the 3rd in 40 years.
The way I see it is, if we win the cup, Moyes is a legend; if he doesn't win a trophy, he still has been a great manager.
He has done a better job with us than Harvey, Kendall x2, Walker and Smith. All of those managers during their stints failed to halt or prevent Everton from sliding. Only Royle reversed a decline during his tenure, albeit a brief tenure.
Moyes has reversed the decline since he took over and before people go on about him being here 10 years, are you suggesting if Walker, Smith et al had been given 10 years, they would have eventually improved things? And what if Royle had been here 10years? Perhaps we wouldnt remember his stint as so successful.
456 Posted 08/04/2012 at 15:07:11
They have Gerrard, Suarez and Reina I might take (and Reina is out).
We have Baines, Distin, Heitinga, Gibson, Fellaini, Jelavic that would walk into their team, in the years you talk about we've hardly ever had the whip hand on paper.
If Moyes does his usual, ceding the initiative, we'll lose ? they're better going forward than they are defending.
If it wasn't for Moyes's history of bricking it, I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over beating them.
457 Posted 08/04/2012 at 15:44:38
It seems to me the biggest obstacle to us beating them is not Moyes's attitude, it's the referees sending our players off unjustly, denying us clear penalties etc. Imagine the greater interest in the final overseas if its Chelsea v Liverpool as opposed to Spurs v Everton.
I also think we tend to do worse against them when we think we are better than them. When the game starts and we are passing the ball confidently and they are scrapping at our heels, I always get the impression they will scrape a lucky goal.
I just think we will be fired up for this. Hopefully Mr Webb doesn't do anything stupid. Liverpool fans have been unusually quiet on other general websites. I am enjoying not reading the drivel. They are bricking it.
459 Posted 08/04/2012 at 17:09:17
However, im torn because to my mind, i have to agree; the derby day capitulation was unforgivable.
So, if we win the fa cup and return to europe. Do we forgive moyes?
464 Posted 08/04/2012 at 17:41:02
The likes of Distin, Heitinga, Cahill and Neville, need to be assured and firing on all cylinders from the start, to set the tone of the match and help the less experienced find their feet and overcome the Gerrard led Shite.
As Barry 456 alludes, player for player we're as close to them than we have been for many a year (despite net spend) it's all about believing they can do it now.
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