Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Why is Moyes still at Everton?

 44 Comments: First  |  Last

There has to be a good reason...

Kevin Ratcliffe pointed this out the other day and personally I think it was through sheer frustration at the Kenwright regime that made him speak out. Ratcliffe's uttering on TalkSport is thought-provoking and I doubt if it was just an off-the-cuff remark. Here I have come up with three possibilities why Moyes is still at Everton. It would be worth bearing in mind when reading, that when Moyes took over, Everton were relegation fodder, broke, and a Premier League basket case. Though still broke, we are no longer facing relegation every season and have hopes of European football most seasons.

1) No other suitable club

The twelve clubs who finished below Everton last season are either: in the same financial boat as Everton, marginally better off... or in most cases a damn site worse off. So, given that Moyes has always stated his ambition, this alone would rule out the twelve clubs who finished below Everton as being either a sideways move or a worse option.

Of the six who finished above Everton, Man Utd and Arsenal currently have steady managers, Liverpool have just got their messiah back, Chelsea and Man City owners want instant success for their money and, as we know Moyes does not offer that. So this leaves either a move abroad or stay at Everton for the time being for Moyes.

2) He has been given the Man Utd nod:

Every time some lazy, bored journo needs a story, the 'Who will replace SAF?' merry-go-round starts, and Moyes is always their favourite punt. Is there any truth in this?

Possibly: Man Utd's two great eras have both been under Scottish managers and SAF is aknown admirer of Moyes. Whoever replaces SAF, one thing is for sure, Sir Alex will have a part in their appointment. Moyes will have to have won a trophy or two by then and had some more European experience, but the smart money would be on Moyes going there if he can pull it off.

3) The groundwork has been done:

Despite the frustrations of slow starts to the last few seasons, the basis of a good squad of players is still intact. There are signs that his youth players are starting to come through. We have all heard of Barkely and Gueye and hopefully they bring future promise, but there is also Wallace, Vellios, Baxter and McAleny and of course Rodwell is still only 20. It's far too early to even think of a golden generation... but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

These youngsters could replace players such as Arteta, Cahill, Neville and Distin as they end their careers or move on. Backed up by quality older players like Baines, Jagielka and Fellaini and the odd old hand to help out, like Osman and Hibbert. This of course would mean that the club has a plan or, in other words, Moyes has a plan ? and Kenwright has had nothing to do with it.

In conclusion, I would guess that Moyes is at Everton because there is really no place better for him to go until he has proven himself capable of winning trophies. Moyes is, if nothing else, pragmatic; he may well see his chances of managing a bigger club as a future event and also realise it would be dependent upon him proving himself.

For Everton supporters, we are in a paradoxical situation: we want Moyes to succeed and win trophies but, if he does, it may possibly lead to the end of Moyes's tenure at Everton. If his groundwork has been done well and his youth system is now starting to show signs of fruition, this may give him encouragement to stay on and build the club, become the Everton Matt Busby or Bill Shankly or Alex Ferguson ? all exceptional club builders and also fellow Glaswegians.
Jake Temuera, New Zealand     Posted 24/07/2011 at 09:13:22

back Return to the Mail Bag  :  Add your Comments back

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Ciarán McGlone
1   Posted 24/07/2011 at 13:33:13

Report abuse

I think four million pounds and a boss who won't sack him may have something to do with it.
Steve Edwards
2   Posted 24/07/2011 at 13:43:14

Report abuse

Jake - You left out Tottenham as one of the teams finishing above us. He may be waiting for Happy Arwie"s job, if he is foolish enough to become the Engerland manager. Mind you I don't think Davie boys management style would suit Tottenham.
Kunal Desai
3   Posted 24/07/2011 at 13:55:47

Report abuse

I think you failed to mention that £65k a week salary he's on, he most likely wouldn't get that anywhere else. So why would he leave?

A nice 'phat' paying contract is the only keeping him at Goodison, otherwise he'd be gone along long time ago.
Dennis Stevens
4   Posted 24/07/2011 at 13:56:26

Report abuse

Any club that would want Moyes is likely to be seen as a sideways move at best & any club that might be seen as a step forward probably wouldn't want him, including Manchester United. Moyes will be with us for the forseeable & may well have to consider provihim elmself on the continent before he can hope for one of the top jobs back here in England.
Andy Codling
5   Posted 24/07/2011 at 14:12:55

Report abuse

He's on mega bucks a week and under no pressure to achieve anything, 'nuff said.
Ernie Baywood
6   Posted 24/07/2011 at 14:59:47

Report abuse

It's 1. Nowhere better to go.

But with a few other factors thrown in. He's got a safe seat, a nice salary, a chairman who, while he offers him little, doesn't ask for much either, and for the time being he somehow continues to gain in standing in the popular media.

The end isn't far off now, though. I wouldn't blame him either.
Ian Edwards
7   Posted 24/07/2011 at 15:19:20

Report abuse

Moyes is still at Everton because:

1. No-one that finishes above us wants him;

2. He is not prepared to go to a club that finishes below us;

3. Too many Everton fans fail to see his many failings and his negativity;

4. Too many Everton fans are too scared for a change.
Gary Heywood
8   Posted 24/07/2011 at 14:48:27

Report abuse

I can't see any of the elite Premier League clubs (Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal) wanting Moyes. He has not not done anything that is remakable at Everton.

All I can say at the moment is that we are not fighting off relegation... big deal! That is probably because of the continuity from a small closely knit squad rather than outstanding managerial ability... and that many of the teams are nothing special.

He did move us up the league and into Europe but we have performed badly in Europe. Our record in cup competitions is disappointing. We have achieved a stable league position but there are now signs that we are starting to slip away from the top six. Why would an elite club be interested in Moyes?

I think our best chance of winning a cup has passed us by so he will not be able to put that on his CV.

There are no signs that he will be able to construct a trophy winning team. There's no money at the club, good youth players will be snapped up by the elite clubs and established star players will always go where the money and success is.

It's true that it would be pointless for Moyes to join a non-elite club. He may as well stay at Everton.

Moyes would leave Everton, like a shot, if any of the elite clubs came calling. He would not go to Liverpool or Spurs because they cannot compete with the elite clubs. He possibly would go to a top Euro side in Italy, Spain or Germany. He may even consider the Scotland job.

Mike Gwyer
9   Posted 24/07/2011 at 15:52:01

Report abuse

"He's only here for the money, here for the money. He's only here for the money".
Jay Harris
10   Posted 24/07/2011 at 15:47:44

Report abuse

Has the thought ever crossed your minds that he loves being at Everton.

He has a special relationship with the fans (well most of them anyway) and a special relationship with most of the players.

He is hardworking, honest and principled and as that is in short supply at EFC he probably feels very valued too.

He is the managerial equivalent of big Dunc. Not as effective as he could be but his heart belongs at EFC.

He knows he has unfinished business and is unlikely to leave that as a legacy... although, if Billy boy doesn't buck up and get something sorted, that could well change.
Mike Gwyer
11   Posted 24/07/2011 at 15:57:04

Report abuse

Jay.

No, not at all. Bolton away last season he just sat their looking like a spoilt twat ? the more Bolton scored, the more spoilt he looked. The Everton fans sung his name but he couldn't give a toss. No, I never think Moyes loves Everton, if he did he would have told BK to fuck off long ago.
Paul Gladwell
12   Posted 24/07/2011 at 16:00:29

Report abuse

I have been a boo boy over the years to Moyes at times, I have called for him to go at times but when my anger dies down I would dread the thought of him leaving now. We have not bought anyone for close on two years, can you imagine gambling on bringing in a new manager now under the present circumstances?

If all of a sudden we got owners like City he would not be my man for the job, but when it comes to what we are in now he is. Come the first two weeks of the season, I will no doubt be calling him again in frustration, but right now I am glad we have him.

Ian Kearney
13   Posted 24/07/2011 at 16:10:18

Report abuse

Legend as a player he may be, but as a pundit and a critic, Ratcliffe is a complete buffoon I'm afraid.

Moyes is on huge money, and likes having full control, until a genuinely better offer comes up (certainley not Villa) he will stay loyal.
Brendan O'Doherty
14   Posted 24/07/2011 at 16:13:48

Report abuse

Seems from above that he's had a huge pay rise of 33% since he signed his contract for widely-reputed £3m p.a. in 2009...
Andy Crooks
15   Posted 24/07/2011 at 16:39:37

Report abuse

I really hope that David Moyes does not replace Ferguson. That job will be a poisoned chalice for years. Much as it was when Matt Busby went.

I honestly believe that Celtic would be a likely and approptiate home for Moyes. Trophies, plaudits and Champions League football. What's wrong with that?

Gary Heywood
16   Posted 24/07/2011 at 16:44:42

Report abuse

To go to the SPL after the EPL is a huge backward step.
David Thomas
17   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:02:08

Report abuse

"No, I never think Moyes loves Everton, if he did he would have told BK to fuck ooff long ago."

What would have been the point of him doing that?
Steve Collins
18   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:33:10

Report abuse

I would have thought it was pretty feckin obvious.

1. If he was to quit he won't get anymore of that lovely contract and would have to fight for another job.

2. Finally the main reason is Bill will never sack him as a) they would owe him the remainder of his contract which they probably could not afford to do b) Bill loves him.
Gavin Ramejkis
19   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:32:56

Report abuse

He's got the safest job in the EPL which when you compare wages to what he's asked to deliver (survival without any bell end from the chairman) must be a dream ride. Whether or not he finally gets bored seeing any half decent players leaving or being sold and decides to jack it in remains to be seen.

He's not the worst manager in the league but he's far from the greatest or one any of the Sky darlings would seriously chase, including Man U (they would only look for managers with pedigree and a trophy cabinet with cups not memories).

To my mind Moyes has found his level: mid-table.

Brian Waring
20   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:46:30

Report abuse

As been mentioned here, he has one of the safest jobs in football.

It would be interesting though, to see how he would perform under pressure at a club where expectations are higher than what they are with us.
Mark Stone
21   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:55:57

Report abuse

"Chelsea and Man City owners want instant success for their money and, as we know Moyes does not offer that."

I'm sorry, but how do we know this? When his this been proven? When has Moyes had the type of money that would be available at City/Chelsea and not delivered success? Please inform me as there must be a portion of his history that I am completely unaware of.

Andy Codling, if you think Moyes is not under pressure, you really have no clue. Maybe not under pressure to win the league or a cup, but he is under pressure to finish above the likes of Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke, Aston Villa etc ? all of whom have much bigger budgets than he does. Just because the expectations on him don't meet your Championship Manager style targets, there is pressure on him to achieve what, realistically, is no mean feat.
Richard Dodd
22   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:59:30

Report abuse

Best chairman in Prem, full control of all football matters, happy living not too far from ageing parents, good set of players who afford him total respect... oh, and a decent living wage.
Brian Waring
23   Posted 24/07/2011 at 18:07:12

Report abuse

Mark, BK will probalby be happy, as long as Moyes finishes top 10.

John Audsley
24   Posted 24/07/2011 at 18:18:16

Report abuse

No pressure and shit loads of cash.

It's a no-brainer.
Karl Jones
25   Posted 24/07/2011 at 19:04:39

Report abuse

Just maybe loyalty and belief ? to Evertonians, Kenwright, the club, the players... Might still exist.
David Thomas
26   Posted 24/07/2011 at 19:44:17

Report abuse

Mark,

I must have missed those years of our history as well. Or maybe it is just another ill-informed dig at Moyes?
Trevor Mackie
27   Posted 24/07/2011 at 20:14:26

Report abuse

Him and Billy have turned this post into the cushiest job in top flight football.

The club still bathes in reflected glories of its history, the fans still turn up, the pay is up there with the best... and you never have to worry about pressure.

Better than winning the lottery ? he knows it as well.
Dick Fearon
28   Posted 24/07/2011 at 22:52:04

Report abuse

One thing that SAF, Harry, Arsene, Kenny, a whole gallery of Chelsea managers, plus most other prem managers have never done what pinch-a-point Davy does and that is aim for a draw before a ball is kicked.
Brendan O'Doherty
29   Posted 25/07/2011 at 01:58:31

Report abuse

Bill, sorry, Richard #22

"Best chairman in Prem"

Truly staggering.


James Flynn
30   Posted 25/07/2011 at 02:46:48

Report abuse

Just an American's view on Managers/Coaches

John Wooden UCLA Basketball Coach - 1949-1963: Good teams, no National Collegiate Title. 1964-1977: 10 National Titles.

Red Auerbach Boston Celtics Basketball Coach

1946-1955 (other teams included), like Wooden an acknowledged great coach, no titles. 1956-1966, 9 NBA Champions.

Casey Stengel - Completely washed-up manager in baseball. Signed by the NY Yankees (to great protest) to manage the team. From 1949-1961, he managed the Yanks to 7 World Series wins and was in the finals 5 other times.

My point is that I believe Moyes is one of the few managers who matter and he's ours.

I'm a guy who laughs at the TV when announcers tout all these clueless individuals collecting a pay check as manager. The most over-rated position in sport. But I don't laugh at DM anymore than I laugh at SAF or Mourinho. Very few count and we have one of those who do.

No trophies all these years? Fair enough. The "Moyes Tenure" display case sits empty. But the gents I mentioned above are indisputed legends of sport over here. It took them many years to attain that status.

I see Moyes (and so us) in the same position this season coming.
Strini Naicker
31   Posted 25/07/2011 at 09:37:18

Report abuse

Well, I think Moyes has done a good job, considering what he had to work with. Every year we wish Everton could win a cup (FA Cup or League Cup), probably our only chance of winning silverware. But we always disappoint ourselves. Of the managers in the top four, how many would be able to do what Moyes does with "NO" money? When we can honestly answer that, then we can judge the man.

At least we do have a excellent youth squad coming through, and maybe, just maybe over the next few seasons we can get something. And remember, none of the Everton players actually want or asked to want to leave Goodison. It's probably one of the most stable clubs in the EPL & a club with character. Overall a full season, I have no complaints about Moyes.

Dave Wilson
32   Posted 25/07/2011 at 09:23:57

Report abuse

He`s here because 36,000 of the most knowledgeable fans in football demonstrated their appreciation of his efforts at the end of last season.

He also knows that despite what the people with the can't-win-don't-try mentality think, he has a realistic chance of qualifying for the Champions League.
Tony J Williams
33   Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:24:01

Report abuse

Safe job, only a minority of fans hate him, big pay rise after having one of the lowest wages for ages.

Knows what he has to work with, lack of money is no surprise.

Oh and he is paid £3m a year.

Gets on with the team well. Most of them say they would run through brick walls for him.

And did I mention he gets paid £3m a year?
Ciaran McGlone
34   Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:55:12

Report abuse

Dave,

Still no wide players worth talking about ? or a striker who'll be fit for more than half the season... all compounded by a manager who doesn't know the value of learning from his mistakes.

You're idea of realism seems a tad, er, unrealistic. We're in a perpetual dawn as regards success... The light gleams an instant, and it is night once more...

I'd be willing to bet you a small fortune that we will not make the CL this year ? I wonder what odds the bookies have our 'realistic chance' at...
Tommy Coleman
35   Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:12:41

Report abuse

He can't get the top jobs because they clearly don't think he's good enough.

He gets a big wage.

He's waiting for the Celtic job.
Anthony Lamb
36   Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:34:58

Report abuse

My, my.....I never realised that David Moyes shared his reasons for staying at Everton with so many people! Perhaps it may be as well to accept the simple fact that he IS here and hopefully trying to do the best for the club and leave his reasons for doing so to himself and his family - where perhaps they rightfully belong?
Ryan Holroyd
37   Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:43:42

Report abuse

Why would he be waiting for the Celtic job when he could have gone to Villa if he wanted to leave Everton?

I'm sure a good salary, job security is part of it. Plus perhaps he is waiting for the youth we have got to kick on.
Dave Wilson
38   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:52:03

Report abuse

Ciaran

There are a couple of golfers not a million miles from you who wouldn't have even booked their flights if they took any notice to bookies' odds, they didn't just fluke their respective Opens, they blew the opposition away and they did it because they believed they could. Have you learned nothing???

I`ll put aside the frustration I feel towards you white flag wavers at the moment and I`ll do you a favour: whatever odds the bookies are offering for us to get into Champions League, I`ll accept 5 points less from you ? if they are offering 25/1, I`ll take 20s from you. Sound fair ?

If my unrealistic idea of realism is suddenly sounding a little too real for you, I`ll take my bet to the professionals. Either way my money WILL be going where my mouth is.
Chad Schofield
39   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:29:35

Report abuse

For all Moyes's faults and frustrating traits, I think Jay's (#10) spot on.

For what it's worth, even if "The Special One" (and by that I mean the self-proclaimed rather than Kenwright's) takes over from SAF, as long as Ferguson is involved with Man U (until he's dead), any new manager will not "be good enough".
Ciaràn McGlone
40   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:12:46

Report abuse

Dear oh dear, Dave,

We'll leave aside the fact that McIlroy's odds are quite short for most tournaments these days...

Your comparision of Darren Clarke's Open win with the chances of Everton making this season's Champions League ? with their very obvious current deficiencies ? is friggin' hilarious... Any chance of comparing apples with apples?

Of course we have a chance; in the great science of maths, I have a chance of sprouting wings and watching games at Goodison for free...

Be serious.
David Thomas
41   Posted 25/07/2011 at 18:50:41

Report abuse

"He can't get the top jobs because they clearly don't think he's good enough."

Who don't think he is good enough? How do you know this for a fact?

The "so called" top jobs that the media etc have talked about over the last 12 years or so have been the Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea jobs.

Man U and Arsenal have not changed their manager in Moyes time at Everton so who is to say when they do they would not want him? I don't know either way whether they would want him or not and neither do you, so i don't see how you can say clearly they do not want him as if it is some sort of fact?

Are you saying it is a fact because Chelsea have not enquired about his services or are you thinking their is other top jobs outside the ones that i have mentioned that prove your point? If so i would love to know which jobs you are refering to?
Dave Wilson
42   Posted 25/07/2011 at 18:37:59

Report abuse

its lost on you isnt it Ciarán.

I`m not knocking you, I actually feel sorry for people with your mindset, You seem unable to grasp the essence of sport. Favourites are beaten in every sport, every day, everywhere. but fear of failure means you cant allow yourself to hope or dream. you cant come on and say what we will do, You will only say what we wont do.
Well some of us wont be dragged down by your fear and misery, Some of us prefer to delay the agony until we have actually been hurt






David Thomas
43   Posted 25/07/2011 at 20:16:39

Report abuse

Dave Wilson 42,

Agree 100%. I am glad that a lot of the moaners on here don't go to Goodison because if i was sat near them week in week out i would feel like jumping off the back of the stand.
James Flynn
44   Posted 26/07/2011 at 23:22:39

Report abuse

Dave (42) ? "Some of us prefer to delay the agony until we have actually been hurt"

Nothing to do with Ciaran and your back and forth (although I'm glad to see you two back at it).

But what's quoted above is really good writing and expression. So, I'm boosting it and will take the impressive responses to my saying it as Flynn original thought.

Just to mention. Unless you're going to go all Alan Klein on me.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb

Recent News

Recent Articles

Talking Points, Messages & The Game

Everton in the Community

About these ads