Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Moyes's Weaknesses on Display

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If you wanted to put all of Moyes weaknesses on display at the Walker Art Gallery - and you would need an overflow tent - you could just put the Villa game on a continuous video loop.

Dithering, weak, risk-avoidance and moral cowardice and lack of character masquerading as conservative care and common sense. Sign two exciting forwards ten days ago? Put them both on the bench! Short of attacking potency? Lone striker not working for you? Try no striker!

After making a breakthrough in the first 20 minutes do you press home the advantage or drop back to defend the lead? Take a wild guess!

Drenthe and Stracqualursi need to partner up. Let them start that partnership! Even if there's an excuse for not starting them, let Drenthe and Stracqua play for the last half hour! No - Drenthe for 20 minutes and Vellios for only ten. And yet they had no impact! Strange!

I have never seen a manager make so many substitutions over a season that had either no impact or had a negative impact on a game. Moyes does it over and over and over. I cannot figure out why so many Evertonians are focused on Bill Kenwright when the real problems are on the field. Bill Kenwright didn't drop two points with poor managerial decisions. David Moyes did.
Peter Fearon, Liverpool     Posted 10/09/2011 at 17:35:34

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Dominic Bobadilla
1   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:29:45

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Thank you for posting this. COWARDICE, LACK OF CHARACTER, STINGINESS are the words to look up in your Chambers. Moyes out - Poyet in. Or Nigel Clough.
Kevin Hudson
2   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:29:09

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Disagree completely.
John Ford
3   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:35:48

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Drenthe made no impact! Vellios made no impact! Were you watching a different game?

Dominic Bobadilla
4   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:39:52

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John Ford, I think his point was that they did not play enough minutes to make a significant and decisive impact. Even Dave Jones as manager would give this team a lift, compared to the shite we have to live through week out and week in. We do not have a bad squad. Our manager is the problem.
James Martin
5   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:42:28

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Overly harsh post. Moyes nearly pulled off a master stroke today. Shorn of his best player and without a fully fit striker I thought we were in for a hiding. Instead it was a great display with only the typical goal of the season candidate against us yet again allowing them back in. We should have been out of sight and it was only bad luck and Shay Given that meant we weren't. An attacking array of Bent N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor were largely kept quiet for the majority of the game thanks to Moyes's tactics. We'll win far more games playing like that than we'll lose.
John Ford
6   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:45:52

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Dominic. It was pretty clear that we were on top, even when Villa equalised, and we looked like we would create chances. As far as subs are concerned when you're playing well theres always a risk of affecting the momentum. Its easy to make changes if youre not playing well.

As it was i'd have taken Bily off early as he wasnt really at the races, but in the event the lateness of the subs was fair enough, Tim played well but a fresh pair of legs did create a threat. .
Kevin Hudson
7   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:57:50

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"Nigel Clough for Everton manager."

Bobadilla's on the Bombardier..
Gareth Morgan
8   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:57:12

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Fucking hell! what game were you watching?
Michael Kenrick
9   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:04:03

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Spot on, Mr Fearon. Moyes is our real problem.
Andrew Laird
10   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:05:09

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I think that it was a masterstroke by Moyes today, Neville on the bench.
Dan Roy
11   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:09:06

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If we wanted to put all of Mr. Fearon's delusions on display, I'm not sure we could find a sufficiently large venue. It was a very good display today.
John Gee
12   Posted 10/09/2011 at 18:54:32

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I'm pleased that Osman scored today. He's a tidy player, bit light shoulder to shoulder, but a real Evertonian.

I'm feeling uncomfortable being an Evertonian today. I thought I'd come on here to read about a credible draw and how everybody has always liked Osman all along.

But no...

Sack Kenwright, sack Moyes, sack the board and I'm sure with a little time there will be all the usual doom merchants slagging off a couple of players.

Don't get me wrong, I realise that there are some serious issues most of which stem from the fact that we don't have a sugar daddy or an unlimited supply of credit but, FFS, give it a rest fella.

BTW Moyes hardly ever throws a new player into the team. His method is to introduce them slowly as substitutes or replacements for well established players. It's down to those players to prove themselves in whatever time they get. The better they prove themselves to be, the more they will be trusted. Just ask Peanuts, Fellaini, Lescot, Baines, Rooney, Coleman etc. All used as subs until they took their chance, impressed the manager and became regular starters.
Dominic Bobadilla
13   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:08:52

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Kevin: I will tell you why I like Clough. He made up for his shortcomings as a player by means of sheer of intelligence. His understanding of the game was that of a masterly geometrician. This guy knows strategy - and he is the son of his Father. His dad, by the way, could have been our manager during the 70s; what we got instead was Billy Bingham. Today we have Gordon Lee incarnate on our hands. High time we got rid of him.
Pat Finegan
14   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:13:57

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If we had any money, we'd have more than 1 match fit senior striker and Moyes wouldn't be left with Cahill.

We spend approximately 0 quid and finish in the top half every season. Moyes is doing something right.
Steve Woods
15   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:28:10

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Sorry Peter but you were watching a different match than I was. I am no Moyes apologist but for what he is left with by way of a so-called squad today was ok and far, far better than of late.
David Crowe
16   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:31:55

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I suppose you thought playing Cahill up front was suicidal? Don't deny it. We proceeded to batter a good team for an hour of that match and were really unlucky to draw.
John Schrempft
17   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:23:33

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Actually, I thought the team played pretty well today, despite having Cahill up front more or less on his own.

Drenthe looked good and Vellios was very unlucky not to score. Moreover, we had the lions share of possession but were let down by poor defending

Tony Cheek
18   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:37:00

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Pat 14..if we look hard enough we will always find something to cheer about. It is no longer what we do, it is what we could have done with someone with guts at the helm. Sorry but my one hope is that the day Kenwright goes then Moyes goes with him.
Brian Keating
19   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:51:11

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What load of nonsense. It wasn't a lack of attacking verve that cost us, it was piss poor defending.

Drenthe came on at the right time, maybe Velios could have come on earlier but we were bossing the game so the change might not have been for the better.

Which one of Moyes subs was negative? Barkley, no. Drenthe, no. Velios, no.
Kevin Hudson
20   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:42:45

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Absurd.

Ex-Kopite flop Nigel Bluff as the next Everton manager?

A man who's managerial achivement amounts to winning the Northern Premier League Premier Division. Whose win ratio with Championship club Derby County is 31 % - compared to Moyes' Premier League win ratio of 41%.

"Masterly geometrician..." Sure.
Gareth Morgan
21   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:49:47

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"Moyes is our real problem" . Are you for real Michael? So some of you think we should fuck off Moyes and bring in Clough, Poyet or fuckin Dave Jones? Oh yeh I can see Everton fly into the Champions League with one of those at the helm. Realize for fucks sake he is dealing with no budget whatsoever and were still finishing regularly in the top eight in a hugely competitive league. Yeh he makes mistakes but today I thought he was spot on with team selection and substitutions.
Alan Clarke
22   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:01:23

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17 attempts on goal today. We didn't win because we didn't have a striker. We don't have a striker because we've had to sell them to pay back the banks and Saha's a fucking waste of time.

I'll blame Moyes when he gets it wrong but look at the directors' box if you want to blame soemone for today.
Gerry Quinn
23   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:05:46

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I'm surprised none of you have blamed Hibbo yet!
Kevin Hudson
24   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:00:55

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Agreed Gareth. - "Come back Walter Smith.All is forgiven." (!)

Let's see if these people can provide tangible examples of superior managers who would feasibly come to Everton, and wave their magic wand.
Michael Kenrick
25   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:06:52

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Alan, to say we did not have a striker is a lie.

We had two strikers on the bench. Moyes chose not to play them for most of the match. When he did finally relent and play one of them, that striker went on to strike, not once but twice in just the few minutes he was on.

How can it be such a stretch to suggest that, if he'd been brought on earlier, he may have been the striker to finish a couple of those other chances? Of course the question is unanswerable... but the possibility cannot be discarded.
Dominic Bobadilla
26   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:08:05

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Nigel Clough was no Anfield favourite; as a matter of fact he was taunted there. Ex-Kopite flops include legends such as Dave Watson and Kevin Sheedy. Clough took over a Derby Country struggling at the bottom; he dismantled everything in order bring about a new beginning. His statistics will improve, I am sure.
Col Noon
27   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:52:19

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Dominic # 13 - Go and lie down. Right now thats out of the way...

A massive fan of Moyes I most certainly am not, but I cannot agree with this post whatsoever. The balance of the team was good today and everybody apart from Bily, everybody looked confident and assured. Using Cahill as the lone front man today was an effective ploy by Moyes as he worked Dunne & Collins and created space for Osman to exploit (created the first goal). Drenthe is not match fit so throwing him straight in at the deep end would not have been a wise move IMO. Velios looked OK when he came on against 2 tired center halves, he will get his chance. Moyes annoys the hell out of me with some of his tactial decsions but today cannot fault him or the players. we should of won and played some excellent football at times. I moan on here with the best of them but this post was way off the mark, with little or no thought put into it.
Ryan Holroyd
28   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:26:05

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Toyally agree with Col Noon. There are times when Moyes should be critisised but can't understand why today.

Pat Finegan
29   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:12:12

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Tony (18) if Moyes plays Vellios and he flops, we criticize him for playing a guy that wasnt ready a la Beckford. Strac apparently wasn't fit so he'd be knackered by the half and that would have been a bad decision. You could argue that Vellios should have come on earlier but we were winning with Cahill on so what's the point?

Careful what you wish for. Managers aren't judged by the effectiveness of their substitutions, they're judged by their results. We spend less money than any team in the premier league and we still compete.
Mike Bates
30   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:32:11

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Drenthe didnt make an impact? You're high.
Neil Pickering
31   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:49:50

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Yeah, it was moyes fault;he should have closed down petrov quicker for the first goal, and shouldn't have let bannon cross the ball for the second! Must have watched a different game to me! It was the ref who denied a pen that was clear cut. Different game if that goes in!
Neil Pickering
32   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:49:50

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Yeah, it was Moyes fault; he should have closed down Petrov quicker for the first goal, and shouldn't have let Bannan cross the ball for the second!

Must have watched a different game to me! It was the ref who denied a pen that was clear cut. Different game if that goes in!

Sam Morrison
33   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:57:39

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So much to complain about at this club. I have had some major frustrations with the man but if you think his flaws outweigh his abilities then ? to my mind you ignore the constraints he is working under. The one thing we have to be thankful for is, despite the risible financial position we're in, we still expect to compete. Is that really despite the manager? Bit far-fetched, isn't it?
Callum Jones
34   Posted 10/09/2011 at 20:56:01

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I'm sorry but this is among the worst posts I've ever read. Just so totally ludicrous! How can you possibly say Drenthe and Vellios made no impact? Were you actually at the game? I mean come on, the performance was top draw, we made a good Villa side look average.

All that cost Everton today was an absolute screamer from Petrov, and a dubious second because for me, the lad fouls Distin, also think Howard could have come for it.

Also, how can you expect the new lads to start? They've had no pre-season, they aren't fit enough to start.

Posts like this really agitate me, because today was a very good performance and you're trying bring your negative outlook on to everyone.

As I said at the start, its one of the worst posts I've ever read.
Neil Pickering
35   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:06:30

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@callum 33 totally agree with you mate. Some of you should be careful what you wish for! The term purse out of a sows ear springs to mind....
Brian Keating
36   Posted 10/09/2011 at 19:51:11

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What load of nonsense. It wasn't a lack of attacking verve that cost us, it was piss poor defending.

Drenthe came on at the right time, maybe Velios could have come on earlier but we were bossing the game so the change might not have been for the better.

Which one of Moyes subs was negative? Barkley, no. Drenthe, no. Velios, no.
Wayne Berson
37   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:36:02

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I really do dispair....

Terrible post.Why do Denis and Drenthe need to 'partner up'? Just because they were signed at the smae time doesn't mean they have to 'partner up'!!!

We did reasonably well in the middle of the park and better than usual up front (at least we had some shots!); it was at the back we messed up.... 2 very poor goals to concede......
Joe Clitherow
38   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:32:19

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I have no idea what game of football some people commenting on here were watching today. Not the same one as me for sure. Probably not watching at all except on Teletext. Either that or you have no understanding of football.

Tim Cahill gave the best display of centre forward football I have seen from an Everton player for some time today. Constant niggling and upsetting the Villa defence into mistakes, created one goal with an intelligent cutback and was unlucky not to register. His best game in ages.

Does everyone here actually watch football or are you too busy on the internet?
Aiden Jones
39   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:38:22

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Nigel Clough ??Nearly as good as the Di Matteo and Holloway shouts during first part of last season.
Peter Fearon
40   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:32:03

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The fact remains that despite all the attacking we did do (although we did drop deep for long periods after scoring) we failed to turn midfield dominance into goals. As usual. That has to be connected with the fact that Moyes chose not to start a recognized striker.

Meanwhile, there is an experienced and successful striker getting splinters in his arse. He is not going to get Premier League experience watching games. If that was possible, most of us could play. If he is "not fit" "unfit" or whatever after training with the team for ten days then why is he on the bench at all?

He is not injured because rules prevent the loan of an injured player... PLAY HIM. If I know Moyes it will be 10 meaningless minutes here or 20 meaningless minutes there for both of them until Christmas when their confidence is shot and their match fitness is falling apart. PLAY THEM.

Brendan O'Doherty
41   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:36:18

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"Moyes is our real problem." Normal service has now resumed on here for the season.

Waste of time the BU protesting against the board then, and chanting DM's name outside the Winslow.

Come to think of it, this finishing 6th or 7th every season recently with no money is a real problem. Let' s keep the board and get another manager in who will magically sweep us into the top 4, despite having to weaken the squad during the transfer window.

All our problems will be gone and a new dawn will have begun.

Get real FFS.

Good performance today. If only Distin had jumped with Agbonlahor for that header...


John Gilfoyle
42   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:30:17

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I think we were just simply unlucky today just as Blackburn where two weeks ago, performance was top notch and i wouldn't fault Moyes for anything today although next game we should unleash Drenthe and Barkley somehow. Judging from today's performance i think Arteta going is another masterstroke from Moyes, past his best and holding back others to breakthrough i.e Rodwell, Fellaini who i was impressed with, about time Rodwell put in a good performance. Drenthe is a machine can't wait till he settles and plays every week, Barkley is gona be a star. Sod the blue union football is 11 v 11 not all about money, bet we match city in a few weeks and turn them over COYBs
Tony Cheek
43   Posted 10/09/2011 at 21:55:09

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Pat. 28.....Believe me , I do hear you. In many ways I was really pleased with our performance today. A performance that has taken away the fear I had after the first two games. I can now see us competing against Liverpool and City and whoever.
But why is my biggest fear going into every game not if the players perform, but if Moyes is going to get it right. THAT, should be the least of my worries. Unfortunately, it is not. The man is an under-achiever and always will be.
Gavin Ramejkis
44   Posted 10/09/2011 at 22:00:25

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I dont think the team played badly today but our lack of depth and some strange decisions to sit back gave Villa a route back into the game. The reintroduction of Coleman gave us real advantage down that wing but well before he was subbed he was knackered as he's just back from injury. Jags really needs to concentrate on his game and not becoming a club mouthpiece, Distin saved his arse a few times today. Osman had a decent game up front in a central role. Drenthe when he came on looked like this league wont be a problem for him, Velios played quite well and was unlucky with a great touch past Given and his snap shot had to be taken quickly but missed as for his second shot only a good save denied him a goal.

Fellaini played well as did Baines and Cahill, Rodwell still infuriates standing off tackles when he could and should be closing players down. Barkley looked really good with a great drive after he came on.

The ref and his assistant first half along the Main Stand were both piss poor.

Overall not a terrible game but we have issues with no squad depth and its Villa those twats always get the luck at our place.
Danny James
45   Posted 10/09/2011 at 22:20:17

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I too am amazed at some of the comments. I was disappointed with the result but thought the performance was quite decent. They seemed really fired up. They were sharper and snappier than they have seemed in a long while.

I even thought Moyesy made the subs at the right time and brought the right people on. You could argue that Bily should have gone off earlier but giving Drenthe about 20 mins was probably about right in the circumstances as he has only just arrived.

Barkley needs to be used sparingly whilst other players are fit. We will need him to play full matches when injuries inevitably happen. After a summer of worrying about lack of players in, it is nice to see youngsters come on with such promise.
Steve Higham
46   Posted 10/09/2011 at 22:52:31

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Post a bit harsh thought we played well today.
Enjoyed the game but was disappointed with the result.
Thought the ref had a nightmare - how he never gave penalty for challenge on Baines I willnever know.
I think we can take a lot of positives from the game - Hibbo and Seamus had a good game, Felliani looked back to his best but needs to be consistently good. Drenthe and Velios look class acts - hopefully we will see a lot more of them.
The only worry for me today was Jags seemed to loose concentration a couple of times for me .
Gerry Morrison
47   Posted 10/09/2011 at 23:29:45

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Moral cowardice? Oh that's right, I forgot, he stood by and did nothing while the Nazis took away his next door neighbour to the gas chambers..
Dominic Bobadilla
48   Posted 11/09/2011 at 00:23:37

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Hello Mr Morrison: Peter's usage of "moral cowardice" is perfectly legitimate from a philosophical point of view:

"Morality normatively refers to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons."

Of course, if your understanding of morality hails from News of the World, this might be be difficult to fathom.
Karl Meighan
49   Posted 11/09/2011 at 00:29:21

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Surprised at this post as we played well today, the non penalty at 1-0 was the turning point, had the ref given it, 2-0, it's game over for Villa and no way back.

I cannot make a case for another striker as Cahill was excellent today working his socks off and Dunne and Collins won't have a tougher afternoon all season than Cahill gave them today.

In time I hope the new players improve us but not when they are not fit, have played no pre-season and have no idea of the speed Premier League games are played at.

The only player who never performed today imo was Bily who has had enough chances and proved he has no positional sense at all and gave Baines no support.
Kevin Hudson
50   Posted 11/09/2011 at 00:40:49

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Pretentious guff aside, here is the definition of cowardice:

Lack of courage in facing danger, pain or difficulty.

Despite Moyes gambling with 3 inexperienced & attack-minded changes, against a side known for their pace on the break, an accusation of cowardice SOMEHOW gets put forward!

Followed by a GENUINE suggestion that Nigel Clough should become Everton's next manager.

Rounded off by an attempted display of intellectual elitism, and some flaky analogy that would be met by a thousand yard stare in the Gwladys Street.

Or maybe I'm being relativist..
Dominic Bobadilla
51   Posted 11/09/2011 at 01:32:23

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Kevin, these must be hard times for you, now that your main source of intellectual edification has been hounded out of business. At least we still have The Sun left. By the way, it was not my intention here to initiate an exercise in scholastic hair-splitting. I merely wished to point out that bringing in the Nazis and gas chambers betrays a narrow view of things.

But enough of this.

The problem with people like you - i.e. the apologists for the Ancie Régime - is that you have no inkling of what is best for the club. Moyes has exhausted his possibilities and his defeatist sentiments, which he voices in public, are sure to have a demoralising effect on the squad. Instead of showing unwavering faith in the squad, he goes about complaining - publicly to boot! - of the lack of funds and how we cannot and should not expect anything better than a top 10 finish. The following will thus become clear to the likes of Rodwell, Fella, Barkley, and Coleman: if they wish to win silverware, they must leave Everton F.C. This is precisely what will happen, if Moyes remains our manager.

I want Moyes out, but I acknowledge his positive contributions to the club. A decade has almost passed since he came along; it would be in his own and the club's best interest if he moved on.
Karl Meighan
52   Posted 11/09/2011 at 02:13:46

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Sorry Dominic @50 ? Moyes has his faults and we've never had a manager who I agree with all the time, but the fact is Moyes's League finishes at Everton are envied by all but the Elite Clubs with big bucks to spend.

Moyes has had us in the position where money had to be invested in the squad to take the next step a few times but he has never been given it. He can be negative at times and his use of subs baffles but keeping it tight and winning games 1-0, whatever we think of it, has been successfull and if he ever became available, there will be no shortage of offers.

My other point would be if Moyes left, whoever replaced him would struggle to match the League finishes that Moyes has achieved.

A couple more cup runs would not go amiss though.
Anto Byrne
53   Posted 11/09/2011 at 03:44:22

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Compared to the insipid garbage at home to QPR and then at Blackburn this was a very enjoyable gam eto watch. The big Fella was outstanding and we had a team of midfielders mostly playing in their correct positions.

The Cahill experiment didn't work and he just gave away foul after foul but then thats Timmy. He made Osman's goal. We had a fast winger in Coleman and no centre-forwards getting on the end of his crosses unless you count the two on the bench.

The young Greek came on and looked the business. Bily needs games and I thought he did well for an hour. Villa had 2 shots on target for 2 goals and Howard has to take responsibility for them. Are we not better off than we were at this time last year?

John Keating
54   Posted 11/09/2011 at 05:57:47

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I thought we did quite well seeing we only had 10 players.
Well sorry, 10 players and Bily !!
He must be the most expensive waste of time we've ever signed.
I know loads of people say he should be played here, there and everywhere else, unfortunately the fact is he's fucking useless in the Premier League style of play.
More importantly he's no bottle and can't make a 5 yard pass !!
Tony Cheek
55   Posted 11/09/2011 at 06:34:48

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Oh, and Vellios would not have got a look in if Anichebe had been fit!!
Brian Lawlor
56   Posted 11/09/2011 at 08:01:03

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What a load of utter garbage!

go on another sad march if you're not happy
John Barnes
57   Posted 11/09/2011 at 07:11:43

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A good performance all round, including Moyes; Decent selection given the circumstances ( Neville dropped, slow introduction of the new lads) and positive substitutions. Attempts at moving the ball through rather than across the midfield pleasing to see, making Villa look distinctly poor. But this was constantly let down by atrocious distribution from Howard and Jagielka. For all Howard's heroics v Blackburn I'm afraid I look at him for both goals. Yet another shot from distance and lack of control of "his" area. Jagielka is only a breath away from a cock up.
John Keating
58   Posted 11/09/2011 at 08:27:19

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Brian 56
Are you on the bevvy mate ??
Leading twice at home against a poor poor Villa.
No recognised striker on the park - crying out for a 442 - even if it had been young Vellios to start.
Bily been given 2 years to prove himself and still can't find a pass - a couple of cracking goals a season doesn't justify his place.
And you reckon we should be happy ??
No I'm not that happy and I think if you are then you should go on a march - straight to the asylum
Alan Clarke
59   Posted 11/09/2011 at 08:40:47

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Come on Michael (25), you're so anti-Moyes, you'll beat him with any stick you can loosely grab on to.

What have you seen of either of those 2 strikers that makes you think the outcome would have been any different? How many senior goals has Velios scored? And he missed a sitter at the end. It's not even like he's been banging them in for the reserves. What do you really know about this Denis fella? I don't know much except Leicester didn't want him and instead chose to pay 4mil for our striker who scored 10 goals last season. 4mil which went to the banks, not 4mil reinvested in a new striker.

I know I've been hypercritical of Moyes before and I will be again no doubt but you start to look stupid if all you do after every game is say how shit Moyes is even when we've played well. Yesterday's problems were down to a lack of investment in a proper striker. That game should have been killed off well before Petrov's goal. Kenwright and the board are the main problem.
Brian Lawlor
60   Posted 11/09/2011 at 08:49:29

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John Keating - you're the one "on the bevvy". Either that or you weren't at game (probably both). We actually played 442 - Cahill and Osman. Osman scored one and Cahill was outstanding.

So you'd prefer to start a young kid whose never scored a senior goa, started a seniot game or has hardly set the world alight in the reserves or start with the Argie who has never played in the Prem and hasn't played a competive game since April? Have you seen him in training then? You know what condition he's in?

We played well and should have won. No justification to get the knives out (again) unless you're a fickle, internet armchair fan.
Kevin Hudson
61   Posted 11/09/2011 at 08:50:05

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Oh I see..

Gerry Morrison & I disagree with you, that therefore makes us News Of The World/ Sun readers.

Despite encouraging us to reach for our Chambers, you claim that "It was not my intention to initiate an exercise in scholastic hair-splitting." You follow this up by "helpfully," defining "moral cowardice," for us.

You continue to highlight the problem of "people like me," as you put it. Ie: Season Card holders who don't wish to see David Moyes replaced by NIGEL CLOUGH - THREE games into the season, and call me an APOLOGIST, as I have the temerity to find this idea, COMPLETELY FUCKED UP!!

Clueless, presumptuous & supercilious.

( Heads back to read copy of Whizzer & Chips)
John Keating
62   Posted 11/09/2011 at 09:39:44

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No sorry Brian not just another internet fan.
Unfortunately I've been watching this lot since 1962. Good and bad times.
Never got involved in politics or anything like that just footy.
Went to the Casa last week to see what was what though I must admit I've been following all the latest stuff with interest and and have become pro Blue Union stance.
Frommlittle acorns etc etc.
March showed we weren't just 60 young idiots.
As for the match.
Yes I would have started young Vellios up front cos without doubt he's gonna feature a lot more this season since we've sold our other strikers.
Yes I would have played Vellios a young untried never started a game, scored a goal Greek kid that I've never seen in training rather than that useless prick Bily !!
Scott Ellis
63   Posted 11/09/2011 at 09:40:37

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This site cracks me up , that was the best team performance in a long while , we had control of most of the game and made over 17 chances .

Moyes can be frustrating with his tactics, but yesterday the team played well. so why not give some credit sometimes.

Or is it we just like to moan and complain on toffeeweb.

coyb
Rob Murphy
64   Posted 11/09/2011 at 09:43:34

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Play a guy who hasn't had a game since April & nobody had heard of until last Wed wk & play another guy who has done more rapping than playing football for the last 9 months - yet another Toffeewhinge The Independent Everton FC Website for Whingers & Moaners article full of absolute horsershit
Brian Lawlor
65   Posted 11/09/2011 at 09:59:04

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You're obviously pretty clueless about football and the standard of teh premier league if you think Velios should have started.
No the march showed there we maybe a little more than 60 and shockingly there were some adults as well. The highlight was the clown at the front. I was curious as to whether he actually went in to the ground like that.

Scott (63) and Rob (64) - it's unbelievable isn't it? These are the same people on that daft march. Moan about everything and want to sack everyone.
Richard Dodd
66   Posted 11/09/2011 at 10:06:05

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Fearon for manager,I say! Here`s a man who can spot all the faults and weaknesses.Or perhaps, the role of Technical Director might better suit.That way,Davey would have someone to turn to whenever he was in doubt.£50K a week suit you,Peter?
You gotta laugh!
John Keating
67   Posted 11/09/2011 at 10:21:53

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You're right Scott. Best team performance for a long time i.e 3 games plus pre season.
You are obviously correct in what you say cos I only saw what I did. Controlled most of the game had 17 chances ?? You must have seen each one.
And yet we didn't win ??
Bily played a blinder didn't he. Man of the match - yet again.
We got away with it at Blackburn. Backfired a bit yesterday but at least start with 11 players that we know once in a while can pass to each other.
Karl Meighan
68   Posted 11/09/2011 at 10:40:42

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Anto@53 I just dont understand that, 1 Cahill made one goal ran himself into the ground and competed and won lots of headers against two centrebacks who's strength is heading the ball. Dunne and Collins will be very happy they dont have to come up against Cahill every week as imo for a hour until he tired he ran the 2 of them ragged dragged them out of position and was the catalyst for a good all round team performance.

The team had a good balance to it yesterday and Coleman impressed until lack of matches caught up with him and his kind of attitude is pleasing.

People here are still complaining about strikers yet in reality 2 goals scored at home should be enough to win any game plus Velios although for only 10 mins looked as though he may add to his appearances if he can learn to put himself about and use his body against big strong centrebacks.

The only negative apart from not getting 3 points was Billy, first game of the season or not Baines having to tell a International player his job after now playing together often, pisses me off and Drenthe cannot get match fit quickly enough so he can actually commit opponents use his pace and not slow the play down at every opportunity as Billy does.
John Keating
69   Posted 11/09/2011 at 11:23:31

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Karl
good analyses. My original post was we only played with 10 men and Bily standing about in a blue shirt.
Better " anyone " playing rather than the 2 goal a season man.
You are right to point out about Baines bollocking him.
It wasn't just Baines Osman had a right go early doors cos he hadn't made a run into clear space on the left.
Cahill had a couple of shots at him about getting tackles in
It was just a normal day at the office for Bily.
But eh ! What do I know when there are "real" fans on here that think to criticise players is the next step to marching to oust the board !
I mean they are obviously right when it comes to backing Moyes to get it right every time !
Gary Carter
70   Posted 11/09/2011 at 11:38:36

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Ha ha ha ha @ post 43 Tony cheek. Absolutely brilliant mate. Ive been reading toffeeweb for years and years but that is the most brilliant thing I have read on here, no, actually it's the most brilliant thing I've read ever in my life !!! "moyes is an under achiever and always will be" I mean seriously, words fail me !! Can you explain to me how David moyes underachieves for everton football club because while I accept he's made the odd error like any human does I just can't help but feel that what you wrote was an utter crock is shit or the mad ramblings of a retarded person !
David McKee
71   Posted 11/09/2011 at 11:45:37

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I dont normally swear on a Sunday, traditionally, but FFS can this post be from a real evertonian what utter utter rubbish you have posted. In these dark days of unrest the last thing we need is some loose gobbed hot head like you drumming up support from the other no brainers that are attached to our great club. Lack of moral courage jeez.. ask Duncan Ferguson or that swedish twat (whos name escapes me) who lost his temper after being subbed and was never seen again, if moyes lacks courage. No better still take a break and lie down in a darkened room you may feel better I certainly will
Alan Clarke
72   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:00:17

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Brian Lawlor just because only 1000 turned up on the protest doesn't mean there were 31,000 pro-Kenwright fans sat in the stadium.

I didn't go on the anti-Iraq war march in London where 1 million turned up. Does that mean I was pro-invading Iraq?

You regularly show in your posts a lack of intelligence, Brian so I can see why you are pro Kenwright.
Joe Clitherow
73   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:06:33

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Jesper Blomqvist

European Cup Winner

:-)
Brian Lawlor
74   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:13:41

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Alan - did you really post that?

Where did i say that they were all pro-kenwright?

The point is they are certainly not pro-blue onion.

May i commend your superior intelligence for comparing an anti-war demonstration to a small group of football fans who dont actually have a plan. All those 31,000 were obviously in the vicinity yet chose not to get involved. That says it all.

You've just demonstrated you're total inability to read. Your posts regularly show you to be a sad, angry old man.
Ciarán McGlone
75   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:16:18

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Far better performance. Although Moyes did make his usual mistakes, he left Neville on the bench.

This single progressive decision is enough for me to praise him today.
Brian Lawlor
76   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:22:53

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By the way Alan, i am certainly not pro-Kenwright. Once again demonstrating your intelligence in that you have ASSUMED im pro-Kenwright because i dont agree with the Blue Onion. This clearly shows you're a bit of a simpleton.
Daniel J Johnson
77   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:48:07

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Good performance tarnished by two lapses of concentration. It seems genuine pace is now in the squad. We should also be encouraged by the age of that midfield!
Jimmy Sorheim
78   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:52:14

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You could say it was a good performance, but 1 point in two home games does not look good, and we are in big trouble because we ALWAYS play too defensive when at home. It is embarrasing.
I am getting sick of it, I enjoy watching a lot of different football but to watch Everton at home is getting really dry and boring. It is like watching paint dry to see us play 451 in every f...... game at home. When will it stop? When we finally get in enough trouble and need to avoid relegation?
I love attacking football and we did have a great first half, but we fell asleep second half after taking the lead two times the team just relaxed and gave back the ball to Villa. That is what pisses me off most. Never stop until the whisle goes and it is full time. Seems like there were too many youngsters in midfield in the second half. Rodwell was at fault for not pressing the guy that scored from 30 yards. Way too easy for him to score there with nobody giving a fuck.
Arteta is gone and we could use him, truth is Rodwell no longer has the ability to earn a spot in the first eleven.
Perhaps it is just frustration, but I think we need to look with a critical eye after losing two points, and after getting only 1 point in our two home games. My question is this. Who are we going to take the points away from when we play 451 every home game??? Please anyone have a answer?
Scott Ellis
79   Posted 11/09/2011 at 13:03:41

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jon (67)

not too sure what your after?

entertainment? or dower football?

we all know moyes can be negative but yesterday the team played with freedom and played well, and as yes entertained .

i agree with daniel(77) we should be encouraged with the future and get behind them .
Because i see no other option.
Anthony Flack
80   Posted 11/09/2011 at 13:19:44

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sorry delusional post - at no point did we take the defensive option - I can not understand your point other than to have a pop based on the "Moyes is defensive" tune.

For the majority we had 2 or 3 upfront, he did not bring on Neville i.e. defensive move. Billy was pants and if I wanted to find criticism it was that Moyes left him o for as long as he did

We played pretty well and a country mile better than the previous 2 weeks. If a bit of luck had gone our way and a blindingly obvious penalty, and we won, I would guess you would not have bothered??

The post needs renaming

"Pointless pop at Moyes"
Andy Burke
81   Posted 11/09/2011 at 13:47:42

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I think you need to chat to somebody about your mental health Peter. Not trying to be a smart arse but if that is what you honestly think, there could be something wrong with you.
Andy Burke
82   Posted 11/09/2011 at 13:47:42

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I think you need to chat to somebody about your mental health Peter. Not trying to be a smart arse but if that is what you honestly think, there could be something wrong with you.
Ben Jones
83   Posted 11/09/2011 at 13:56:59

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Jesus christ, some fans are clueless here. How the hell is it Moyes' fault we lost that game? Maybe it was the Everton players not closing Petrov down for the first goal, or Hibbert not closing Albrighton for the second.

All the subs were decent, and Cahill was fantastic up front.

We drew because of defensive mistakes, not Moyes.
Ben Jones
84   Posted 11/09/2011 at 14:00:03

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And Dominic Bombadilla, who can we replace Moyes with? Who in the right mind to come and replace him when this club is in complete disarray in terms of funds?

NIGEL CLOUGH?? Just because his Dad is possibly the greatest manager of all time. Or is it because he led Derby to crappy mid table finishes in his time there. And yes, that is the Championship.

The only people I would maybe take are Coyle, Martinez or Hughes. But they wouldnt be any better than Moyes.

It is unbeliavable some of the posters on this site, even you Michael.
Joe Clitherow
85   Posted 11/09/2011 at 12:06:33

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Jesper Blomqvist

European Cup Winner

:-)
Tony Cheek
86   Posted 11/09/2011 at 14:47:26

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Gary.70......thank you for those few kind words. I choose not to insult other Everton fans or their opinions on Toffeeweb.
Life is like this Gary. We ALL make errors, yes all humans do. But most people LEARN from them.
If you are happy with DM, his team selections, his tactics, his substitutions, then of course you have every right to be, thats YOUR opinion.
MY opinion is that with the squad he has, he under-achieves. Sorry, but it reads like a school report." CAN DO BETTER!!
Dominic Bobadilla
87   Posted 11/09/2011 at 14:55:32

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Ben: How long has Clough been Derby manager? He has turned thing around in less than 3 years there and he is accustomed to working with a tight budget. And where did Moyes come from if not the Championship?

Nigel Clough is the only British manager I have faith in. If we cannot lure him over, then we should be going for a foreigner.
Duncan McDine
88   Posted 11/09/2011 at 15:27:05

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what a load of bollocks... we were unlucky not to win the game, but that sometimes happens. Nine times out of ten, we'd win a game with that overall performance.

To criticise the timings of the subs is also pathetic. He might do certain things that baffle, but Moyes got
Duncan McDine
89   Posted 11/09/2011 at 15:39:51

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everything right in my eyes against Villa. (excuse my fecking laptop for splitting this post in 2).
Jim Burns
90   Posted 11/09/2011 at 15:49:15

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Whilst I fully endorse the right of all Evertonians to have the right to express their views - on the basis that, no matter how diverse these may be, they are always held and expressed with sincerity - and because we all love this club, and worry about it as we would a loved one.

Then just occasionally, a post comes along that leaves you speechless and embarrassed in equal measure.

Peter - your observations are not worth serious response and Dominic - are you serious? Clough or someone foriegn? Is that it?

Michael - who would you suggest the club replaces Moyes with - realistically and available?
Chris Butler
91   Posted 11/09/2011 at 16:35:30

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This has been the continual problem under Moyes. I think it epitomizes Moyes's tenure at Everton for the last 2 years. We have always struggled to beat the opposition by more than a 1 goal margin. How many times has this happened now? I could predict what was going to happen.

Fortunately there's so many awful teams in the prem this year I don't think we'll have that many problems. Honestly every year we look back on these games and wonder how we didn't win them. 4 points in 3 easy matches is an awful start. Wigan is a must-win game.

Gary Carter
92   Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:05:57

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Tony 87 you said "Moyes is an under achiever and always will be". So when we finished fourth with players like Bent, Naysmith etc we should have won the league maybe? Moyes in many experts' opinions consistently overachieves with the tiny budget and tiny squad he has. And no, I don't agree with all his decisions at all, but it's easy to say something simplistic like that when you've said something as stupid as you have, and that's not opinion it's fact!
Ian Smitham
93   Posted 11/09/2011 at 19:37:36

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Peter, your OP destroys your credibilty, " that partnership". Give me Strenthe.

"Moral cowardice" Nice words, but would you tell him yourself?

Dominic, your Nigel Clough comments consign the rest of any comments you make to the bin. He has done nothing, and as limited as I am, I have never heard anyone anywhere venture that he will and even more so, even the Moyes haters on here have never come up with that one.
Tony Cheek
94   Posted 11/09/2011 at 20:27:26

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Gary...I do not dispute for one moment that Moyes has done well at times. I did not write "he has always been an under achiever". So get it right before you start hurling abuse again.
Do you think he "over -achieved" last season? Which "tiny" squad are you talking about? Just look at the players who sat on the bench against Villa! No, we do not have a squad like Chelsea, City or United, but it is a very capable squad and I feel that DM should be getting better results!
We are both Everton supporters Gary, we just have different opinions of our manager.
Jon Cox
95   Posted 11/09/2011 at 21:55:39

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Tony C, (86) here we go, a little quotation for you.

"while I accept he's made the odd error like any human does "

So Gary Carter, are you saying that if most humans make the same mistakes in their jobs over and over again, that they would be given a sizable pay rise?

PLease mate inform me because I sure would like the job centre or what ever it's called these days, to let me know.

To end, your was the funniest i've ever read, in fact,

"Absolutely brilliant mate. Ive been reading toffeeweb for years and years but that is the most brilliant thing I have read on here, no, actually it's the most brilliant thing I've read ever in my life !!!"

Who needs telly when comedy of the highest order is right here. Or to put it another way, who needs TV when you've got TW
Ben Jones
96   Posted 12/09/2011 at 00:15:37

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Tony C... Moyes underacheives with the squad? Have you seen our strikers?
Tony Cheek
97   Posted 12/09/2011 at 05:23:00

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Yes Ben, I have mate. But Moyes doesn't use them anyway, so why should he need them?
David Price
98   Posted 12/09/2011 at 09:55:22

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Peter, i'm assuming you saw the game and live nearby to the ground to post this nonesense just 40 minutes after the game finished. I was still making my way up Queens Drive by then.
Anyway, i forgive the knee jerk comments and would advise a clear mind to make rational decisions or risk sounding like someone who's "Brail Match Day as it happens" report was given the wrong information.
I was amazed at the vibrancy from midfield, the pace, yes PACE, in attack . The massive improvement in skill from Coleman, not head down and run, but head up, neat footwork , drop of the shoulder and past his man.
Fellani and Rodwell linking well. Each one knew their position to cover, how many times when Fellaini and Arteta played together, that it was as though they were both sharing the same pair of shorts .
Barkley, Drenthe and Velios were a breath of fresh air and the pace continued.
This was a young side out there on Saturday and their time is now. Moyes has nurtured them, to slowly in some peoples eyes, but they are ready for sure.
Baines is now the best left back in the country, by a distance.
Blamed Howard and Distin for the 2nd goal but then on tv later saw how Gaby has an arm in Distin's back preventing him to get off the ground.
The Ref missed it just like the foul on Baines, i could see that from the Park End yet he was three feet away.
Yes Rodwell should have been on Petrov's toes far earlier and i'm sure that will be discussed for the young lads learning curve.
That performance was light years better than most of our home displays against teams outside the top 7 last season.
I think this nucleus of players will give Moyes a lift and induce a more attacking side.
Anyone who watches football can surely see the greenshoots of recovery on display, Peter please re-assess your thoughts.

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