Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Blue Union to up the ante?

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The next march to be organised by the Blue Union cannot come quick enough for me. My understanding is that another meeting is scheduled for later this month and I assume (and hope) that a further date for a protest on Goodison Road is agreed. This means it may be well into February before that march takes place; by which time the transfer window will have shut, we will have had at least one tricky cup tie (hopefully two!) and played Spurs and Villa away and Blackburn, Man City and Chelsea at home.

I feel it?s a fair bet that there will be little activity in the transfer window other than maybe a loan deal for a striker. Given recent performances, I also can?t see much of a points haul from the above fixtures and a potential banana skin in the Cup (although I would like to be proved wrong). In which case the mood amongst supporters can only get worse; with those who have continued to give Kenwright their backing surely seeing that his tenure (and by implication that of David Moyes) is unsustainable, if we are to remain in the Premier League beyond the short term.

The applause Kenwright received at the Villa game rang hollow in my ears at that time. I tried to understand what made supporters react in that way and believe that it was more a reaction to the BU protest before the game, than an actual ?vote? of confidence in Kenwright.

The BU have been consistent in stating that their objective is not to move Moyes on, but to persuade the current Board to step down (or at least to one side) and allow others to sell the Club to those with the ability and desire to invest in both the players and, probably most importantly for the longer term, the stadium and associated infrastructure.

However, I believe that the state of affairs in regard to squad quality, depth and style of play, whilst in part due to financial restrictions, is now much more about our manager and the clear lack of ideas, tactical savvy and enthusiasm being applied by him and his staff to each and every game we play.

I believe that the BU should re-consider it?s objectives at the next meeting. Removal of Kenwright is undoubtedly the longer term solution for the Club to survive and revive itself. In the shorter term, a change of manager and associated approach may do just as much to save us from tipping over into the abyss.

I read on TW and elsewhere how Kenwright and Moyes are joined at the hip and that the former will never force the latter out. However, I equally believe that BK is a survivor and recent years (as far back as the King?s Dock fiasco) have shown he is adept at looking after ?number one?. In a scene reminiscent of Barabbas, I think he would sacrifice Moyes if he thought it would appease the growing anger and frustration amongst the fanbase.

So I would urge the BU to up the ante over the next few months and call for complete top-to-bottom regime change. Whilst creating risk, how could it possibly be worse than what?s happening now?

Steve Guy, Harrogate     Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:28:52

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Peter Lynch
1   Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:11:46

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I fully accept the present football is very poor and that we should have beaten Bolton last night (a poor side) but I don't accept that a change in management would necessarily bring an improvement.

To read some of the comments here, one would think we have a deep squad littered with talent from which another manager would be able to extract a European slot.

The fact is that there has been a financial and managerial malaise at all levels running through Everton since the 80s that has never adequately been addressed. I suspect this is the case at most football clubs if you scratch beneath the surface. We are a mid-table club at best (and have been for 20 odd years) and will be until there is some transparency on our level of debt. We are only going to progress once this is cleared.

Finally, what is the consensus on who the new manager should be?
Stephen Kenny
2   Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:53:43

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This situation is not of Moyes making, it is solely down to Kenwright.

I want Moyes to go because I think he's given up, his heart's not in it and his style of play is outdated and doesn't suit the players we have. It's not like he's wasted all our dosh on shite players.

Bill on the other hand, despite having a manager who has generated an additional £18m from players sales, has still managed to cost us the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity all clubs dream of, sell all our non-playing assets, run down our home to the point our pipes burst in winter and games get cancelled, and get us in hock to every shady bastard knocking around the periphery of the football world.

How anybody can support this idiot is beyond me.

I hope the BU strike while the iron's hot and take a far more aggressive stance in future ? inside the ground if need be.
Les Roberts
3   Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:34:31

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Moyes cannot be exonerated of any blame in all of this as he has been complicit in everything that has gone on.

He said himself that it is he who buys and sells the players and so, given the sale of so many key players over the past year, the blame lies with him as it was his decision to sell them. If it was not his decision and the board and the bank forced his hand then he should have come out and said as much as he has been undermined and I cannot see how he could work in those conditions.

All of the good work he has done over the last 10 years is quickly being undone and this season or next could be his, and the clubs defining season. (I realise I'll get stick for that comment but I do think he did a great job and we had a great team taht peaked around the 2009 FA Cup Final)

However, I would not look for the immediate removal of the manager as I think that he is the only stability we have right now and, whilst not enough to move us up the league he would not see us relegated (though that requires a re-think after last night!).

My fear is that, no matter how much we all pull in the same direction, we do not have the backing of the local or national media who all seem to be in Kenwright's pocket. Had the Shite not had that backing, Hicks and Gillet would have run them into the ground... something which doesn't look to be too far off at Everton.

The whole sorry affair is soul destroying!
Jimmy Sørheim
4   Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:16:31

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I think it is time for us all to face the fact that we may well go down.
We have no Goalscorers, we have nothing.
We are stripped bare naked.
It hurts me bad as I have stood by this club since 94.
But I think we need a new fresh face with new ideas.
I can not watch this club go down in flames, and if there is to be a protest to get Moyes out I will come to Liverpool and join you with pleasure.
Problem is I feel nobody is willing to do something before it is too late. Losing against Bolton was worse then losing against Reading last year.
I am angry and sad at the same time because I think Moyes has had enough and is just waiting to get a new club.
He seems be in a depressive state, as I seem to remember David Moyes a lot different when he first came here.
How about a protest directed at Moyes, that should motivate Moyes to do something or just leave.
Chris Keightley
5   Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:33:29

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It's been mentioned by myself on numerous threads that the Majority ? yes, the Majority! ? support Moyes and Kenwright; please don't try to kid me otherwise. That is unlikely to just change overnight with shitty results and poor team performances.

Many Evertonians will follow Everton to their graves regardless of Manager and chairman... blind support, maybe... but still a majority who will see no need to protest. My heart says I should stick it out, give my 100% to Everton, regardless of the dross served up that I saw last night. It hurt big time and has made me question my sanity.

Blue Union ? I do see what you are trying to do and praise your spirit and effort; however, I think it will take a lot more than a close-knit band of brothers to win the war.
John Feeley
6   Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:29:53

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Spot on Stephen Kenny. If you look at the nature in which we've (luckily) accumulated points this year we're almost in a false position. One more hellish summer (akin to the last 3) where someone inevitably comes knocking for Baines or Felli and then proceeds are not re-invested will consign us to being relegation candidates...
Danny Broderick
7   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:05:02

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Remember, Kenwright is the public face of this board. What on earth have Philip Green and Robert Earl ever done for this club? Also, why can't the billionaire Lord Grantchester (the grandson of John Moores) do something?

Get rid of the lot of them. Our whole board is rotten to the core, not just Kenwright. The Blue Union needs to turn the screw on these other board members, like it has done on Kenwright. The others are sitting pretty, while Kenwright kops all the flak. They are all equally to blame in my book...
Tony Rice
8   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:17:09

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Moyes is not without blame here. He has chosen to publicly back the regime even though it is hurting his own chances of success. The performances are dire , his tactics are puzzling at times but I'm not sure how much more he can do withour current playing squad.......

The sad thing is that I doubt Kenwright will repay Moyes' loyalty.... when push comes to shove ( which appears to be imminent ).... I think Blue Bill will get rid of Moyes in an attempt to save his own position.
Chris Matheson
9   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:17:52

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Chris at 5 - you are right. I cannot for the life of me understand why Kenwright retains the support of the majority, but he does. The majority is getting smaller and more people are simply not turning up to games but as Stephen says, the BU will have to up their game (our game as I consider myself a supporter of the BU).

John at No 6: a dodgy pen to get a point at Sunderland, a late flurry away at Fulham after Zamora had missed an open goal; a pen away at Bklackburn after they had missed two pens themselves. You are dead right we are alomost in a false position. Scrary. Very scary.
Richard Tarleton
10   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:24:11

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Peter, a change of management is the prime issue. We have sold Rooney, Pienaar, Yakubu, and Arteta and not one of them has been replaced by a player half as good. That's deeper than the manager(of whom I am not a fan at all). Danny Broderick is absolutely right the board is rotten to he core, but I think Kenwright is living in a fantasy world in which he sees himself as the man keeping Everton afloat, rather than as he is, the man who scuttled the ship.
Richard Tarleton
11   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:30:37

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Sorry the first sentence should read is NOT a prime issue
Brian Harrison
12   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:29:30

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Stephen 2

I cannot believe you are advocating the BU to have protests inside the ground. By all means protest outside the ground but once that protest moves inside the ground, then I believe that will be a recipe for trouble.

Also seeing the mood inside Goodison at present is great, I think the fans calling for the head of the Chairman and possibly the manager can do the team no good at all. We have all seen how this type of protest inside the ground is destructive to Blackburns chances of surviving the drop.
Stephen Kenny
13   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:40:15

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Brian,

I'd advocate anything that would see a lying, scheming shyster lose control of an institution he's killing by the day.

2-3000 BU supporters sat inside the ground together at say a cup 4th rounder would up the ante and bring greater scrutiny, although I can understand why they won't do this

A gathering at the Park End after each home game for say 20-30 mins would also keep the issue of ownership firmly in the spotlight.

I don't know the funds available to the group but I would also consider an advertising campaign in the local or national media highlighting some of the information the club have sought to suppress.
Hugh Walker
14   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:34:11

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What we are witnessing -- and have witnessed over over the past 20 years -- is the permanent decline of a once great football club. It's happened to many before and it will happen to many more, but the current direction of the Everton winds blow increasingly forcefully toward the ultimate conclusion of relegation, financial strife and a new life in the lower leagues. The pique that's prevalent in many Evertonians is pretty-much pissing in the wind when you consider the problems:

1. There's no money. In-fact, there's less than no money as Everton owe tens of millions to various creditors. The idea that we could use some money from any sale in order to bolster the squad is dreamland;

2. The squad are shite. All the players we think are good aren't that good -- they're just better than some of the worse players in our squad and some of the other Premier League squads. If you accompany their absolute mediocrity with their lack of will to earn a their crust, then they become a burden not an asset;

3. Nobody wants to buy the club. Everton are not an attractive investment and the 'billionaire' that Kenwright (and most Everton fans) wants isn't out there. Everton are an unattractive brand, stuck in an old stadium with a terrible team. Nobody but a die-hard Evertonian would want to put their money into our club;

4. Moyes should be given credit. It's not that he gets by on minimal funds -- we've seen that when he gets the opportunity to spend big, he doesn't exactly go out and buy world-class players. What Moyes does well is make mediocre players play out of their skin. It's not pretty and never has been, but it's effective. If anyone can sustain Everton for a while at the top level before the inevitable slump, it's Moyes.

It's simple -- football has changed and we have declined. Our history will not make us great again and, ultimately, we still have a long way to fall. All the hand wringing in the world isn't going to bring back the glory days: this is our swansong so enjoy it while it lasts, chaps.
Matt Garen
15   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:02:04

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Hugh 14. Hard to argue with any points raised there, spot on.
Chris Matheson
16   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:07:25

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Hugh you might be right. But I am not going to go down without a fight. Other clubs, lesser clubs than us, are prospering and with the right management with the right drive and the right skills and even just a little vision, we could well prosper again.

However, everything you say will come true if this bunch stays at the helm.
Brian Harrison
17   Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:53:53

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Hugh 14

I agree with most of what you say, although I dont believe all the squad are as bad as you say. I think there are a few who could be sold for much gold.

I can understand the frustration of fans wanting us to be able to compete at the top level. And although during his tenure Moyes has in most cases made us the best outside the clubs with money to burn.

As a business Everton are losing on average about £5 million a year, so it is easy to blame the chairman. Look he may have made some mistakes, but as far as I am aware takes no money personally out of the club. So how do we address losing £5 million a year and stay competitive, well we all know the alternatives one being sell your best players which we have been doing of late but that will make us less competitive surely.

I am afraid Hugh may well be right when he says lets enjoy the ride while it lasts, and it breaks my heart to say that.
Les Roberts
18   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:13:16

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If people's attitude is one of 'thanks for the memories' then we really are fucked!

I cannot believe what I am reading here!
Stephen Kenny
19   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:13:35

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Brian

What ride should we enjoy?

Getting twatted by Bolton? Missing out on ground moves? Being constantly lied to?

The only ride about is the one we are ALL being taken for by Bill and his cronies.
Mark Riding
20   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:14:03

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#14 Hugh, some excellent points, and you could even give examples of what may happen to 'historically good' clubs who have been run badly, and the one which springs immediately to mind is Nottingham Forest.
Tactics are Moyes fault, money is Kenrights fault.
If we fall, then we are knackered. Southampton fell, dramatically, and they came back as they had built St. Marys. A modern stadium.
We are run badly, head to toe, we text message season ticket holders the day before playing Liverpool, offering them extra tickets, to what is the biggest game of whatever season. Sell the ground out early.. even if we give tickets away, bums on seats.. programmes, pints sold..

Doing nothing is no longer an option.
Hugh Walker
21   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:11:42

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I may be wrong about the players and maybe they are better than I give credit for. It just seems that every game I go to or watch I'm constantly frustrated by their inability to pass the ball 3 yards to each other. I also wonder if we sold, say, Fellaini whether he'd be snapped up by Sky's beloved golden geese, or whether he'd be flogged to one of our truer competitors who have a bit of cash (Stoke, Sunderland etc.) for a few million less than we paid for him.

On a personal note, the first time I can remember watching an Everton game was the 1989 Cup Final when I was 6 years old. I cried after that game. Cried because of a football game. My dad gets a glint in his eye when he talks about Everton's glories -- 84 Cup Final, Bayern Munich at Goodison, thumping Man United 5-0 in '85, Lineker and the league titles. He talks about the 'Everton way' to play football and the School of Science.

That kind of talk makes our hearts flutter a little, doesn't it? Beautiful, fast attacking football -- the Everton way. Then I remember that I never saw any of it and for 23 years of support I've seen 1 FA Cup win, 2 FA Cup Final losses (the first being '89) and some of the worst football ever to be served up by a top flight football team.

So, the decline seems relatively inevitable as it appears to be the only thing I've seen for the past 23 years: regular disappointment punctuated by rare occasions of happiness and stories of how great things used to be.
Christopher Kelly
22   Posted 05/01/2012 at 17:15:15

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How the hell can a business thats losing 5m a year and has no assets, ask for 150m to be sold!

That's the problem. End of.


Time to fire up the old plane engines and fly a few banners if the BU don't want to protest.

As we've learned in football and other parts of the world, protestation is effective if done properly and organized.
Graham Duffy
23   Posted 05/01/2012 at 18:32:51

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The shit financial situation we are in is Kenright's fault.
The shit football we play and have been playing for ages, the one up front, everyone back for a corner, young athletic players on the bench, two centre halfs in midfield etc is completely Moye's fault.
The time for both of them to go is long, long overdue.
Leave now DM and BK.
David McDonnel
24   Posted 05/01/2012 at 18:42:44

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I've been saying it to anyone that would listen, since we lost to Villarreal in 2005: Moyes is a fantastic man-manager, but he will never be a fantastic (or for that matter, competent) tactician. And that we need a foreign coach!

I always wanted to be proved wrong... after all, what the fuck do I now etc, etc...? But nothing since that game has ever changed my mind.

Loosing to 10-man Chelsea years later, in the semi-final of the carling cup showed his tactical ineptness all too clearly for me... and just how much he'd learnt in that time.

Kenwright & the board have much to answer for. But, they do not pick the team and nor do they enact the tactics.

This team and its youth policy is capable of a hell of a lot more than, it has shown for past several seasons.
And I am convinced, that in the right managerial hands & leadership, it would apply itself justly.

Unfortunately or not, I believe that could only come to fruition under the stewardship of a foreign coach.
Paul Ferry
25   Posted 05/01/2012 at 18:44:12

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To be sure there is now the first real wakenings in the media to the dire situation at Everton (but, needless to say, not in the Redechoor Kensharpwright land), and this is so important. The national press do notice Everton because it is a decent story; a once great club, founder member and all that, sinking to its knees.

That actually might be an issue: that we do have a lot of respect from the media and pundits who have hung their boots up, for Moyes, for what we were in the past, for what we are now (a - cough and roll of the eye - well run traditional club with a wooden stadium in a gritty city that Thatcher and her cronies wanted to abandon), and as a token example of an old-style club out of pace and sorts with the Sky/Premiership money-spinners who can still pull off the odd surprise high finish.

I suspect that many in the media think of us as good old Everton with that traditional lattice running down the length of the Bullens (if only we could have those half-hoops back behind the goal). Our clear demise is papered over with such platitudes. And, this is where I'm getting to the point of the OP, there aint much griping and whinging by the fans - no banners, no targeting of the board inside the ground, no targeting of Moyes, albeit we must read booing as an indictment of his selections and tactics, as well as the ineptitude of an uncomfortable number of our players.

We used to be good at protesting. Remember that last game of the season? My God we were so relieved to stay up. Like thousands of others, I dragged my drunken weary legs onto the hallowed turf (last time I did that was Wimbledon and before that winning the league at Norwich in 87), to sing 'we are staying up', yes, but much more loudly: 'We want Johnson out'. It had an effect, I think.

Now, I'm not advocating pitch invasions. Far from it. But until there is something happening inside the Old Lady directed at Billy luvvy bullshit Kenwrong and his dithering cronies (who is that ugly walrus fat fuck who always sits next to the Billy Jowls, with, by the way, and here's a symbol for you, his fat hands resting on ledge that is badly in need of new painting), we will not get the sort of attention that the 'good old Everton' media need to give us in order to get something done.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some investigative journalist research a piece on the finances over the last ten years? That would shake something.

Nor do I see any great harm in making feelings plain whenever Moyes gets it wrong: his subs are normally the best way over the course of the game, along with what we see on the pitch as a result of his selections and tactics (a misplaced pass, for instance, a backpass, slip up).

At some point someone in charge has to take notice. If not, at some point there will be (first) shithouse robber Kenwrong out calls and signs and, in due course (second), the first murmurings if Moyes Out. The media ought then to take more notice that 'Good Old Everton' is nowhere near being shipshape and a sizable number of 'Good Old Evertonians' have had enough.

If it carries on for the next month as it has for the last three or so months, then it behoves us as devoted Evertonians with blue blood running through each one of our veins to take a stand. God bless the BU but we need to step up the ante. Only then, I think, will we get the sort of national and media coverage that will bring our the real troubles of kenwrongmoyesmesiahville, and put to an end to ignorant fuckers like Robbie Savage on 606 who whenever a true blue calls in with a critical point or two storms back with the overwhelming and so self-evident argument that Moysey has done great things for Everton in the past.

Let's make it clear that 'Good Old Everton' is a ship no longer on an even keel, and that the captain and the ship owner need a lobotomy or a taxi.
Chris Butler
26   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:05:13

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The Blue Union are useless really as, unlike SOS, they don't have the support of a lot of the fans. They are not an Ultras group like the BBB of Zagreb who are protesting Madic by not turning up at all. The way the fans in the ex-Yugoslavia do things is much more effective as they unite, they make sure the players and officials know it's their club.

I remember when Lazio fans left the Curva empty for like 20 minutes then they all came back in and sang songs against their owner. They got rid of him by doing protests similar to that from 2007 to 2010.

Fans just aren't that passionate in the UK that's the problem. Having been to games in Serbia, Italy, Germany, Bosnia, Greece, Croatia and England, I have to say English fans are the least passionate. Until the Blue Union start to raise their voice, organise away travel, try and sit together at Goodsion, and sing anti-Kenwright songs, they'll be ignored.
Peter Laing
27   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:19:04

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Brian Harrison your posts beggar belief, enjoy what ride the one to oblivion that Bill Kenwright and his cronies have created through their complete mismanagement, your credibility is in doubt I'm afraid.
Peter Laing
28   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:27:03

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The walrus that you are referring too often seen schmoozing in Kenwright's ear Paul Ferry is none other than Jon Woods, major shareholder, multimillionaire and alleged Evertonian. Somebody else who has not put jack-shit into Everton and in my opinion loves the kudos of playing footsie under the Captain's table with Philip Carter in the directors lounge whilst bungling Bill takes all the flak.
Tom Bowers
29   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:27:41

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I agree with most of the comment here and I think most genuine and knowlegeable Evertonians feel the same way about Moyes and that is he is not going to be the Messiah with or without an influx of finance.
After 10 years he has done nothing to improve the style of play coupled with his inane team selections and loyalty to players who are not even Championship standard IMO whereby we cannot even win
home games against lesser teams.
Yes he has had his moments in that 10 years but that could happen to many managers over that time just as if you keep picking Osman he will score once or twice a season to make him seem a better player than he is.
The time is ripe for Moyes to go as nothing will change under his direction.
We let proven goalscorers go in Beckford and Yakubu coupled with Arteta our most influential player.That in itself spelt something wrong which has not been corrected.
Sadly I fear that Moyes will continue to produce the tactics that will keep us an inferior unattractive team struggling to get points.
Paul Ferry
30   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:41:14

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Cheers Peter, and I always wondered who he was
Barry Rathbone
31   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:20:55

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The problem with the BU is it doesn't have a target, there is no unifying cause.

"for change" is chattering class territory, even Kenwright isn't directly targeted and Moyes is absolved despite his collusion with the board against the BU. Not to mention his brand of football.

When you look at the attention the Blackburn protests got in about 2 weeks it was because Venkys and Kean were nailed unequivably.

Mind you Evertonians will only wake from the North Korean faith in our leadership when we sit in the bottom 3.

Such is present day Everton - tragic.
Joe McMahon
32   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:39:30

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Peter Lynch (1) -" I don't accept that a change in management would necessarily bring an improvement"- See the Sunderland Model - they are already above us. We lost out on Martin O'Neill, don't care what anyone says, he's already won 4 from 6, played at the highest level (Moyes & Round?) ignoring Celtic, won 2 league cups with Leicester. Nevermind we've had nearly 11 years of Moyes masterplan of ????????. 11 long fucking years.
Joe McMahon
33   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:45:06

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Barry@28, what can we do when we have the clapping of our twat of a Chairman, and the constant spouting of "becareful what you wish for" and "if not Moyes who". It pains me to say it but look at Stoke compared to us, and with a modern stadium. Too many fans cannot see that our brand of football is the worst ever by an Everton team, Goodison is a clapped out wooden dump, attendances are falling. We ain't even running to stand still anymore, we gave up running in 2009.
Barry Rathbone
34   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:53:22

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Joe

Couldn't agree more, frighteningly I'm of the opinion only a relegation fight will raise the wrath.

However looking at hound dog face Moyes I don't think we'd win.
Thomas Williams
35   Posted 05/01/2012 at 19:45:25

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Paul Ferry #23. Here are some figures of the Kenwright era:

£27M in assets; now -£33M ? a £60M Loss
£24M debts; now a £45M debt ? a £21M Loss
£18M PROFIT in player sales under his tenure... yes, that's right ? Everton FC have made an £18M profit on players under BK. Shameful statistics... and then you can add all the lies to the fans and you wonder why so many still accept it.
Shaun Kinnair
36   Posted 05/01/2012 at 20:32:37

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Moyes has given up.... I do feel sorry for him as he doesn't have a pot to PISS IN because of Kenwright.

I think KENWRIGHT should go before MOYES, because even if we got rid of Moyes where still left with no pot to PISS IN.

Bill please no more bullshit!!
Brian Harrison
37   Posted 05/01/2012 at 21:05:33

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Peter 24

I find it a bit rich getting criticsm from someone who can't be bothered to go to games anymore. And not because you can't afford to go, believe me TRUE BLUES support the club through thick and thin. I have seen some poor Everton teams, but as the tee shirt says were born not manufactured, although not true in your case.
Dave Lynch
38   Posted 05/01/2012 at 21:22:28

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Peter@1.
I don't have the answer to a new manager but moreover ask the question.
Who would be stupid enough to take it under the constraints Moyes works under ?
you know i'm no Moyes fan but over managers like Megson, Bruce et al, i will take him any day.
We need a buyer before we could even consider a new manager.
Peter Laing
39   Posted 05/01/2012 at 21:39:32

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Brian have you never heard of the concept of proactive protest, I will be at the next blue union meeting and will do whatever I can to support the concept of the installation of an interim board that are given the mandate to find a buyer. Your last sentence smacks of somebody who is clearly deluded.
Michael Martin
40   Posted 06/01/2012 at 09:39:03

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It's funny. People talk about having protests before games and they genuinely believe something will change from it!

Sorry to rein on your parade but the only way you will get Kenwright's attention is by hitting him where it hurts. ie DON'T go to the games, have a protest DURING the game outside the ground and make it clear that you won't go back until he leaves.

Anything less than that is useless. Everything just seems really half-hearted to me. (And, I'm sure, it seems that way to the current board aswell).
Michael Martin
41   Posted 06/01/2012 at 09:55:17

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@Hugh14. What a morbid post! What exactly is your point? We should all just give up now and go home?

You back this up by saying that:

1) Everton are broke;
2) Everton's players are rubbish;
3) Nobody wants to buy the club because they are an unattractive brand; and
4) Moyes should stay because he can make mediocre players play out of their skin. But, we'll get relegated eventually anyway!

Well I think points 1 and 3 would apply to the majority of Premiership clubs. However, it doesn't seem to stop them out-spending us significantly year after year.

Point 2, Everton players are not rubbish. Most players have played at international level. They are made to look rubbish by the system they play in and the tactics they are ordered to employ.

Which leads on to Point 4: Moyes should stay because he can keep the ship steady until we eventually get relegated?!? Not very ambitious, is it? How about the board either back Moyes so he can purchase those "mediocre players" that you mention or fire him and bring in a coach that can bring the best out of the current squad?
Danny Broderick
42   Posted 06/01/2012 at 11:02:41

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Brian Harrison (17),

The reason we lose £5 million a year is that this is roughly the amount we pay in interest every year because we have sold off all our assets and are mortgaged to the hilt. Let's keep things in perspective. Our current business model is flawed, but that doesn't mean we have no chance of being sold. Straightaway if a new owner came in and cleared our debt (circa £45 million), we wouldn't have to pay this interest and so we would suddenly be a business that breaks even. Sounds much better doesn't it? Dare I say, through better running of the club, we could even turn a profit, if we got some of our 3rd party agreements back in-house (kit deals, hospitality etc).
The major factor is the sale price. No-one is going to pay £150 million and clear our debt. The asking price has to reflect our in-debt status. The BU has to step up the campaign for the club to name a price.
Steve Sweeney
43   Posted 06/01/2012 at 11:37:56

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Why doesceveryone keep falling for the
"we lose £5m a year " bullshit.
Since January last year we have received
At least £17m in transfer and loan fees and
Where has that gone?
Also reduced the costs ie wages by at least £7.5/8m
Yakubu Pienaar Vaughan,Yobo,
Gosling- Beckford -SAY £7.5/£8m
I can only assume that increased contracts to Jags-Felli-Baines plus the loan signings has used the
savings from Artetas wages £3.9m
Based on Billy Liars comments to the BU
Debt £45m (should have been reduced by the sale of players so should now be £17m less) As we never spent any of it and with the reduced wage bill we should at least be breaking even now.
SO Bill Where is the money going ???



Mike Elbey
44   Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:37:42

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Steve,

That is exactly what I have been thinking. Based on Billy Bullshitters interview we should be around 25m in debt and be breaking even each year given the players sold and the consequential reduced wage bill.

Where is the money Bill ?
Nick Armitage
45   Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:41:26

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Danny Broderick - nail on head

The board need to reinvest their income from sales or pay off the debt. To my knowledge, they are doing neither.

Which brings us to the question; where is the money going?
Colin Fitzpatrick
46   Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:23:22

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Michael #40

Many are still unaware of the true objective of the Blue Union?s protests before the Villa and Wolves games, in fact it?s the objective of almost every protest march; it?s to gain publicity for the cause. It?s extreme naivety to believe that Bill, looking out on Goodison Rd packed with protestors singing, chanting and blowing whistles and vuvuzelas, will suddenly understand nobody believes the bullshit anymore and do the right thing for once. The protests have been extremely successful, the Blue Union has demonstrated that they can organise lawful and peaceful protests and attract national media attention. Detractors want to move the issue away from the objective, onto numbers for example, but the videos soon curtailed that particular avenue. Some believe that the Spirit of Shankly was more successful in this area but I can assure you they were amazed by the video footage of the first march. Like Gandi said, ?first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win?

Danny #42

It?s an interesting comment about the debt situation but something that should be taken into consideration is that the amount of debt on the balance sheet isn?t necessarily the amount it will take to be cleared. Look at the Prudential securitisation loan; it?s listed as approximately £24, do you think that is the amount they?d accept to clear the debt? It was a £30m loan, on which they?re expecting over £60m to be repaid. Look how aggressively they defended their position on their charge over Goodison Park [their security hence securitisation] an action that prevented Williams Tarr from building the proposed Goodison Place development and leasing it back to Everton who had convinced Sodexo and Kitbag to pay the lease whilst they were outsourcing partners. I think you be looking at paying Prudential £35 - £40m to clear that. I think new owners will leave that debt in place until they solve the stadium problem.

These are the minor details people forget; this debt was forgotten during Kirkby, what was going to happen to this debt when we sold Goodison? Transfer it? To what, the leased ground at Kirkby? I don?t think so.

For everything at Everton read Robert Elstone?s explanation about the Park End, the only person to have told the truth over the fiasco; it?s a complex legal matter.
Danny Broderick
47   Posted 06/01/2012 at 15:22:36

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Colin,

You are right. Each individual loan will have its own terms and early repayment charges. It may cost £45 million to clear this debt, it may cost £85 million ? who knows?

My point was simply that some people try to make out that we are a club that is losing money and that is why no-one will buy us. I don't honestly believe that the picture is as bleak as that. This is what the current board want us to believe along with various other reasons why we haven't been bought. Everton FC could be a fantastic asset if new owners aren't straddled with the debt that the current board have left us with.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to how much it would cost to pay off this debt, and how much the club is asking for. The club's asking price has to reflect how much it would cost to pay back the debt. If they truely are asking for £150 million, before the debt is paid off, then we will be stuck with these jokers until they run us into the ground.

I would like to see the heat turned up on Green, Earl, Woods etc who are getting off scott free at the moment.
Andy Riley
48   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:05:53

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Where does £150 million come from? I know this is a figure quoted by Keith Harris so presumably it has some factual basis or is linked by to BK in some way.

Is that the overall value of the club? ? in which case presumably the roughly 75% shareholding held by Kenwright, Woods and Earl can be purchased for about £112 million.

Considering that True Blue Holdings bought out Peter Johnson's 75% shareholding for about £24 million, either of these figures seem both greedy and unrealistic.

Also what is to stop any two from Kenwright, Woods and Earl selling a 50.1% shareholding to a new investor and if Kenwright and Woods are such good Evertonians why don't they accept say a very reasonable 50% profit on their original investment of about £8 million each and sell such a majority shareholding for £24 million. I think at those sort of figures there would be serious interest!
Colin Fitzpatrick
49   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:23:10

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Andy #48

All share transactions have to be approved by the board; it's in the articles, so this effectively stops what you describe from happening. I think Jon Woods would have sold his shares years ago tbh. He's a much bigger blue than Kenwright and my understanding is he's sick of the whole thing but can't get out.
Brian Waring
50   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:28:39

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No way Colin, don't you know there is no bigger blue than BK!!!
Andy Riley
51   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:27:21

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Thanks Colin for the explanation. What I would like to know is why will no-one in the media, either locally or nationally, will forcefully question the likes of Robert Elstone when he trots out the line that the asking price is not the reason the club hasn't sold and at the same time not enquire properly and ascertain some estimate of the current asking price is and how that asking price has been calculated?
Ian Smitham
52   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:35:12

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Colin @49, "all share transactions" can you quantify?
Andy Riley
53   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:39:32

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Colin - further to your explanation about board approval surely if 50.01% of the shareholding wish to jointly sell to a third party then they can get that through also on the basis that that same 50.01% of the shareholding can vote 50.01% in favour of such approval being granted?
Andy Chilvers
54   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:43:19

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I have just seen Moyes on Sky. We can all relax... bill and the gang are doing their best after all to find a new buyer. We have a new strategic sponsor.... BEST BUY!

FFS! ? Talk about taking the Piss or what.
Ian Smitham
55   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:51:22

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Andy, anyone who buys over 29.9% has to make an equal offer for the rest of the shares.
Andy Riley
56   Posted 06/01/2012 at 19:58:00

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Ian - that is really the starting point. My understanding is that the current value of individual shares on a matched basis is around £1,250 per share. True Blue Holdings paid about £850 per share valuing their shareholding at that time at about £24 million for 75% and the total value of the club then at say £32 million. If two of the three wise men were prepared to sell a 50.01% shareholding for £24 million that would value the entire club at a realistic £48 million and I think the buyer would probably be willing to offer the same price for the remaining shares if required to do so..
Colin Fitzpatrick
57   Posted 06/01/2012 at 21:54:31

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Ian #52,

You can read it here, section 6.2.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14802596/Everton-Articles-of-Association

Personally I think there?s greater scope in section 19.1.3. lol
Jay Harris
58   Posted 06/01/2012 at 21:50:43

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The only thing that posts so far have failed to mention is why "unexplained" operating costs have risen from less than £2 million a year when Kenwright took over to around £25 million a year now.

It is a disgrace that a business with an income of £82 million a year cannot generate a profit... in fact every year bar 1 year of Kenwright's tenure we have made a loss irrespective of level of income.

For information I made an enquiry with Keith Harris about 18 months ago and the advocated asking price was offers approaching £200 million so £150 million is a reduction. The stumbling block is Earl and Green so the recent asset and players sales and loans from companies in the BVI may well be setting those two straight rather than placating the bank.

Who knows what is going on with Kenwright's constant penchant for smoke and mirrors?

If only we had all paid attention to Paul Gregg and not Billy "Fortress Sports Fund" all those years ago.

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