It`s an old chestnut on Toffeeweb that Everton 'missed out' by showing no interest when Randy Lerner came shopping for a Premier League Club. No-one (apart from Kenwright & Co) knows the truth about that but news this week that, from next to nothing, when Ellis sold out, Aston Villa`s debts now exceed those of Everton.
Now I have to admit that I always looked longingly at Villa and its business-like owners and even when Lerner let Martin O'Neill go and replaced him with Houllier, I still was mighty impressed when he forked out £20M for Bent.
But now it`s gone horribly wrong as first that Frenchman and then, McLeish, a very poor shadow of our David Moyes, have supervised Villa`s slide down the table to a point where they just might get caught up in the relegation battle.
I raise this issue, not to provoke yet another debate on how Blue Bill has failed us ? that`s been done to death under the Quinn Investments heading ? but more to discuss what impact a wealthy owner can possibly have if the manager(s) he chooses sign the wrong players and burn up his fortune.
It would seem that Kenwright's only saving grace, nay, saviour is his choice of a manager who was able to manage within the owner`s very limited means! No doubt, Lerner would have thrown money at the manager who he would have changed several times...
Doesn`t this indicate that, whoever takes over a club,it`s the manager who makes or breaks him?
Richard Dodd, Posted 29/02/2012 at 09:42:10
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611 Posted 29/02/2012 at 15:07:44
Lerner or Kenwright? ? No contest. Has to be the Yank. At least he had the pot even if he`s pissed it to overflowing!
613 Posted 29/02/2012 at 14:58:11
I would have Lerner over BK, but I'd want some sound financial heads running the money side so that we werent paying very average players enormous wages!
614 Posted 29/02/2012 at 15:13:41
But hasn't Lerner fucked Villa over? Under O'Neill they were as good as us and challenging us for Europe, we had some great games against them. Out went Barry, Milner, Downing and Young for close to £100M.
They brought in Bent only to try and preserve Premier League status, still a poor return and so much so that O'Neill walked prior to this.
I'm certainly not announcing support for Kenwright but, upon speaking to Villa fans, they are as pissed off, so we are not unique
615 Posted 29/02/2012 at 15:19:57
I don't think the manage makes or breaks a chairman as he has the authority to sack him and find someone new. But if Lerner knew anything he should have kept O'Neill on board as he's up with the best, bar Ferguson and Wenger.
617 Posted 29/02/2012 at 15:20:32
The board have to be realistic. If we had an Abramovich that had spent zillions getting the players together and it went tits up, then yes, the manager can be expecting "the call" to piss off... If it's a Kenwright who has put fuck all into the club, then whoever is the manager can expect "the call" to say "Well done, keep it up."
Certainly Lerner is limited as opposed to Abramovich and the Sheik of Citeee. We don't need a zillionaire ? just someone who's not a halfwit with no business brain. Someone who can slowly put together a plan that gives Moyes "something" each year to spend and at the same time develop Goodison Park.
620 Posted 29/02/2012 at 15:40:48
622 Posted 29/02/2012 at 15:43:03
Depending of course on the sale price a new owner at this present time when raw material and labour costs are good could spend a relatively small amount on redevelopment. The Park End being the obvious choice, possibly followed by the Bullens Rd incorporating it being the main stand.
Hibs up in Edinburgh rearranged their end-of-season last 2 home games and, I think, their first 2 of the following season, to put in a whole new side of the ground. The board gave their reasoning that they had previously redeveloped the other 3 sides and as costs were so low they would have been daft not to take advantage of doing their last side.
Moyes has kept Kenwright in a job and a new forward-thinking owner could achieve a lot without the mega millions some on here would like us to think is a prerequisite.
625 Posted 29/02/2012 at 16:04:23
In fact, since O'Neill managed them up until now, they've done worse than us, I think they only finished ahead of us once in that period depsite all their money. Moyes on the other hand had relatively little to spend and did not have good players at the club already like Barry. The right manager has to go with the right owner.
626 Posted 29/02/2012 at 16:21:32
627 Posted 29/02/2012 at 16:30:03
631 Posted 29/02/2012 at 17:06:36
He has invested in the future of Aston Villa. Unlike our chairman who hasn't invested in us.
Phil McKeown 614 - where do you reckon a £100M could've got us a few years ago, around 2009-10? Now there's a thought...
641 Posted 29/02/2012 at 19:02:11
644 Posted 29/02/2012 at 19:16:39
So my answer to Shaun (631) is that if it was Lerner in charge we wouldn't have got it, god knows how much we would have got with Kenwright, enough to take us forward into the top 4, we will never know.
Lerner, he is ruining Villa.
646 Posted 29/02/2012 at 19:30:54
Please, please..... tell me nobody could come up with yet another fuckin' excuse.
647 Posted 29/02/2012 at 19:42:04
But if he ever does . . . .
648 Posted 29/02/2012 at 19:46:56
Still, he's doing alright at the moment that'll do for me.
649 Posted 29/02/2012 at 19:55:02
652 Posted 29/02/2012 at 20:26:17
However, during his tenure Villa have seen the departure of Young, Milner, Barry, Downing (a possible England midfield there) Cahill, Friedel. They have declined from regular top 5-7 to mediocre. I suppose the same could be said of us.
659 Posted 29/02/2012 at 21:51:52
670 Posted 01/03/2012 at 00:46:06
671 Posted 01/03/2012 at 01:13:05
"No doubt, Lerner would have thrown money at the manager who he would have changed several times... " So you're saying that Lerner would have sacked Moyes?
Villa's problems stem from O'Neill's profligate spending. Lerner's money with Moyes in charge would have allowed us to build the team, maybe even around that schoolkid Rooney we used to have playing for us. Certainly when we needed it for the CL games and afterwards and we'd have no worries about now having to sell off our assets (Rodwell, Baines, etc.) to pay off the banks.
676 Posted 01/03/2012 at 03:03:19
682 Posted 01/03/2012 at 04:04:42
Benitez Mk II in other words.
689 Posted 01/03/2012 at 07:39:38
What's the relevance of his nationality and religion?
692 Posted 01/03/2012 at 07:58:48
It's all about servicable debt, and a business plan with a long term vision. We are looking at sales on a daily basis to see if we can pay our loans. Goodison Park is crumbling and we do not have any funds for players unless we sell.
Why didn't you compare us to Sunderland?
700 Posted 01/03/2012 at 08:51:33
747 Posted 01/03/2012 at 12:35:52
As for Downing, RS offered £20m for him (still can't say that without having a little chuckle), would you turn that down?
If you include Cahill, Villa made somewhere in the region of £60m profit on these transfer fees. They then spent some on Bent etc to reinforce the squad and brought through some very good youngsters which left a sizeable amount of cash in the bank and probably a reduced wage bill. Sounds like a reasonable business plan to me, all they need is a decent manager and they may well be in a very good place to move forwards.
759 Posted 01/03/2012 at 13:11:14
Plus despite our results against them, we were and are a far better side.
798 Posted 01/03/2012 at 17:22:10
The Browns have sucked over the last 10-15 years and will continue to into the future. Because of Lerner. He's a lousy owner over here and seeing Villa going nowhere over there shocks no American fan once you tell them the Browns' owner owns Villa.
Kenwright OUT! (But not Lerner in, God help us).
821 Posted 01/03/2012 at 19:35:57
865 Posted 02/03/2012 at 05:15:18
Well, the club announced losses of £50plus this week and there's a protest planned by fans to get rid of Lerner, so if his business plan is so reasonable, then why are so many Villa fans being 'unreasonable'?
866 Posted 02/03/2012 at 05:20:23
934 Posted 02/03/2012 at 13:50:55
Make of that what you will, but it wouldn't fill me with confidence if I was a Villa fan.
I wonder if there's debate on their site wishing they had BK!?!
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