Will Moyes's decision to rest 'key' players ahead of Saturday's crucial FA Cup 6th Round tie, and showing contempt and disrespect for every Evertonian in the process, prove to be a tactical masterstroke or the most significant in a long line of errors of judgment?
He's now put himself under enormous pressure to get a result against Sunderland.
Are he and the team up to it?
Only time will tell...
Mark Stewart, Posted 14/03/2012 at 00:13:45
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552 Posted 14/03/2012 at 01:54:04
If we went at them and lost. So be it.
If we drew, so be it.
If we at them and won, over took Liverpool in the league. 10 games undefeated then, have something to really push on from there.
This game was and should of been the biggest game of our season.
For me it pretty much sums up Moyes tenure. When it's time to push on step up a notch, he's just unwilling to make that step, he's been found wanting.
553 Posted 14/03/2012 at 02:00:50
What happened to "We're going to go out there to win it"???
554 Posted 14/03/2012 at 02:01:20
You take every game as it comes ? the derby should have been the most important game and the best team possible picked... and if we got injuries, then so be it, because they are part and parcel of football; you have to treat each game as it comes.
Totally gutted at the result; it just shows Moyes's ambition... sorry, it seems to me that he has no ambition ? just likes picking up his pay cheque.
And if my opinion of Moyes offends anyone, I couldn't give a fuck as I only care about the best football club on the planet ? EVERTON.
557 Posted 14/03/2012 at 02:17:40
564 Posted 14/03/2012 at 02:49:30
Even winning on Saturday won't change that.
Unforgiveable. If he doesn't understand the importance of beating Liverpool he should move on.
565 Posted 14/03/2012 at 03:00:25
612 Posted 14/03/2012 at 08:23:01
One thing is for sure - if we lose to Sunderland this week (which I now think we will), Moyes MUST resign.
Oh, and take that piece of shit he calls a centre half with him. Where? Back to fucking Sheffield, or Glasgow, or fucking Turkey. Anywhere but Goodison.
622 Posted 14/03/2012 at 08:59:48
While last night annoyed me and discussing it this morning is pissing me off too, we need to realise that all we can hope for is a cup win this year (again).
We've more chance of winning the cup than the league.
Fuck that lot - we need to win on Saturday.
Simple as that.
626 Posted 14/03/2012 at 09:07:07
Players who we were all saying weren't good enough to wear the shirt about two months back are then cited as reasons why we are better than them e.g. Fellaini
The sad fact is that the worst red shite team that I can remember is still far superior to us.
Last night just proved why Moyes is a good manager and not a great one. A better manager would have gone there with nothing to lose and had a go.
If we do get past the next round then chances are we'll play 'em in the semi finals. So what will Moyes have learned? Nothing that's what. Just like he hasn't learned anything in 10 years of trying.
649 Posted 14/03/2012 at 09:41:13
657 Posted 14/03/2012 at 09:44:21
Everton will be edgy and the longer the game goes without a goal the more the players will go into panic mode and the more the crowd will get on their backs - the more likely Sunderland will take advantage.
Moyes misjudged the importance of the Derby to Evertonians - how can you do that after 10 years on Merseyside? - simply baffling.
Now we've got a deflated team and an understandably angry crowd to contend with to go forward. All this bollocks about 'well, we got 3 points against Spurs - is, well... bollocks
It's looking likely that Saturday afternoon could herald the 'End of Season' party.
Not felt so crap about being a blue since the early 1980s and the aftermath of the Ian Rush/Glen Keely game...
I think we should just give Liverpool the 6 points each season without bothering turning up - save ourselves the hope and then the inevitable embarrassment.
680 Posted 14/03/2012 at 10:17:26
683 Posted 14/03/2012 at 09:43:12
I don't disagree and (naturally) I was gutted, depressed etc.
But not really surprised
In fact reading a lot of posts, what DOES surprise me is..erm..why this surprises anyone.
I mean why the apparent shock?
Why does it take a defeat by THEM for many to 'get it'.
Earlier in the season, we went to Man City waving the white flag.
In the opinion of a lot of Blues, Moyes more or less said "Have the points".
Many on TW (including myself) posted to say we thought the whole thing a disgrace and an embarrassment.
However just as many posted in his defence (nb: justifying behaviour that, 100 years ago, would have seen Davey's postman delivering white feathers by the sack-load).
"Did you want him to get us tonked then?" seemed to be the 'logic' of their 'argument' (as if playing two strikers was somehow a guarantee of a 6-0 defeat).
At Chelsea away, it was more or less the same - 'you've got loads more money than us, have the points'.
Again, imo, a disgrace.
If you look at his away record against the top sides it is truly shocking.
Yes they're better sides with much more money, but if you believe those results are ALL down to money, you will believe anything.
The reality is that Moyes, as a human being, is cautious, reserved and with a small 'c' (and probably a big one) conservative.
He does not appear to have much in the way of imagination.
(not a crime in itself but handy when deciding tactics and team selection).
Consequently, he is never (repeat: NEVER) going to produce a side that 'goes for the throat' or will 'attack, attack, attack!'.
He is NEVER going to really trust flair players.
He is NEVER going to (in a good way) select a side or a formation that is going to surprise or wrong-foot the opposition.
And those who believe he might and continue to support/defend him him are, imo, deluded.
However I'm fairly sure that before the Sunderland game, the following will take place.
ANNOUNCER "...blah blah Davie Moyes 10 magnificent years!!!"
Moyes appears, sheepishly applauding hands above head and a full Goodison applauds.
And comments such as "Alright he fucked up on Tuesday but don't forget he got us into the Champions League!" will be the order of the day.
French political philosopher, Alexis de Tocqueville once said that in a democracy, we get the government we deserve.
If this means what I've always believed it to mean, 'we' probably have the manager we deserve.
684 Posted 14/03/2012 at 10:48:13
All our eggs are now in 1 basket this weekend, I hope we get the result we are looking for.
705 Posted 14/03/2012 at 11:32:58
David Weir - you are a complete string of Pish....either take the pundit money or take the cash from being on Everton payroll..but not both....you've either ripped me off as a sky subscriber or as a Toffee. You should've EITHER been a pundit and questioned the team selection or been a TOFFEE and not let Souness take a big gratuitous dump on us, taking hot air about 'special players' in the context of their mediocre team.....
709 Posted 14/03/2012 at 11:38:50
Sniping aside, they also have a big game at the weekend that won't be a breeze - I don't expect Stoke to just roll over like we did. Even though they have never won the Prem, and last won the league 3 years after we last did, their fans still have expectations of their team, however unrealistic.
Moyes played in a Celtic side so I don't for one minute buy that he didn't know how important this was to fans, particularly those locally-based.
His comments after suggest that he simply doesn't give a fuck. Maybe kidology to keep the players up, but the fans won't buy it.
710 Posted 14/03/2012 at 11:35:24
One paced, one strategy deferring to "our betters" - disgraceful.
Even if we beat Sunderland there's a good chance one of our "betters" awaits - with the same result.
716 Posted 14/03/2012 at 11:48:31
How they (and the entire RS support) must have rubbed their hands with 3 points guaranteed when they saw our line up.
As soon as my eldest lad read out the team he too could not believe (like me) why Moyes changed SIX players after finding, it seemed, a winning formula albeit the dreaded 4-5-1
and said Moyes had handed KKK a 10 year present instead of the other way around.
What an utter twat, and a fucking disgrace it was to insult the fans who have stuck by Moyes through thick and thin to do that when it was a game for the taking.
I am known in work as the lad (I'm 50+) who always wears an Everton shirt, not anymore, until Moyes goes from this Saturday I shall be wearing a white T-shirt symbolising Moyes' surrender to the RS.
I'm working then, at this moment in time I am angry about last night and don't care about the match or result, it will take every major trophy to win back my faith after that insulting display.
Moyes and the team (first 11 last night) should publicly appologise to every Everton fan World wide for that farce then pack his, Jags, Rodwells Rounds bag and do the right thing and go. Give Big Dunc and Stubbsy plus Irvine a go, they cannot do any worse.
720 Posted 14/03/2012 at 12:13:41
ANYONE who believes this clown is a GREAT MANAGER is as clueless a fucking idiot as he is and has absolutely no idea about what good football is all about. People like Richard Dodd please please fuck off with your excuses. As soon as the team was announced I knew we'd get twatted and that's exactly what happened. Last night we made an ageing crock, who's hardly played all season, look like a world beater and not for the first time. Every time he plays against The Shite Moyes shits himself (especially at Anfield)...as he does when he goes to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, The Emirates.
Last night was humiliation in the highest degree, we were NEVER in the game but he's okay he doesn't have to go to work and face the shit we all have to... no he'll just tuck himself away in Finch Farm and surround himself by sycophantic pricks like Round & Kenwright and listen to them tell him how great he is... He actually had the audacity to say in his post match interview that, at the time The Shite scored the first goal, he thought we were the better team... Which fuckin game was he at?? .....FUCKIN WANKER!!
I've never been a great Moyes fan but any little benefit of the doubt I would give him went out of the window last night. As bad as Walter was he NEVER laid down in front of the shite and let them humiliate us... Moyes does it time and time again and gets lauded as one of the best in the game... fucking joke.
For all those excuse makers who are defending last night by saying he's concentrating on the cup... How many of you are HONESTLY confident we'll win on Saturday... cos I'm not. Martin O'Neill must have been sitting in the stand shiting himself... er no I mean... pissing himself (laughing).... Even if we do win on Saturday the chances are we'll have to play Chelsea, Spurs or (god forbid) The Shite in the semi... so he'll just lay down and die once AGAIN and try to convince people that we're really lucky to have made the semi final with no money and such a small squad... AS far as I'm concerned the sooner Moyes & Kenwright leave this club the better.....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Spurs and/or Chelsea hear my plea...come and take this clueless gutless twat off our hands... give him the chance to show what a truly great manager he is at a club with money... He'll last about six months just like that other GREAT MANAGER Hodgson did at the shite.
I will NEVER be ashamed to be an Evertonian but last night I was humiliated, embarrassed and ashamed of Everton... in particular the gutless cunt who calls himself the manager... not even winning The FA CUP will take away the hurt and humiliation I felt last night... And by the way... if Jack Rodwell is the future of English football then English football is in BIG BIG TROUBLE
722 Posted 14/03/2012 at 11:34:05
736 Posted 14/03/2012 at 12:40:06
I went from extremely optimistic to completely deflated in a matter of minutes, those minutes where when I heard the teamsheet.
WIN THE GAME INFRONT OF YOU......THEN CONCENTRATE ON WHAT'S NEXT!!!
740 Posted 14/03/2012 at 12:19:17
"Tim, you are in, because i dont really have anyone else"
"Tony you are back in, sorry Pip your legs will not last 3 games in a week"
"Bainsey, you are in"
"Jags, you are in, since you got injured we have been much better in defense but I like the hoof it attitude, sorry Johnny, you have been our best player for these last 9 games, but hey thats showbiz"
"Dusty, why have you suddenly gone white?, you will be ok back next to Jags....honest"
"Peanut...you are back, I realise you are a money grabbing little fucker but I like you"
"Shamus, I realise you are not fit and basically have been found out but I am gonna play you before Royston because he excites the crowd to much with his trickery and pace....and I dont like that"
"Big Fella, you are in, I know you are missing Gibbo but dont worry Jack is next to you and as long as you stay behind him he will pass to you"
"Jack, I will be amazed if anyone offers money for you in the summer, but i like your attitude, you never try to excite the crowd with a defense splitting ball, you play it backwards all the time...good lad..you are in"
"Victor.....You are useless, I know you are useless, but I have a greek kid on the bench who I am trying my best to destroy his confidence....you are in"
"Denis, now come on Denis, you are a cult hero and I like your work rate, but I want you and Vic to play together for the first time ever...in a derby..."
"Tim, sorry Tim but although this match is right up your street and you would terrorise Carra, I am gonna give Vic the nod"
"Jelly, you took that goal superbly againest Spurs and you must be flying but get used to me , coz honest I will fuck you rightover"
"Ozzie, you are your nibble feet found a great ball for the goal v spurs and you always play well when in centre mid, but you are a local lad who knows what this game means to the supporters, I cant play you ..sorry"
"Johnny, You really have impressed in the last 9 games but I do want you to fuck off in the summer and I know you will after this"
"Ok boys, dont forget I have been here 10 years now and achieved absolutely fuck all but with all the media attention I have had in the past week I am starting to believe it, lets get out there boys and give this RS the easiest game they have ever had, dont forget I am happy with the win v spurs so not really arsed if we get beat"
Its no fucking wonder we was shit, the whole squad was in a daze after learning the team sheet, they must of been on the pitch thinking "what the fuck", I know I was when I heard the starting 11
If we lose on Saturday I will never forgive the ginger ninja, even if we win I will only forgive him if Liverpool lose and he comes out with a daft statement saying he threw the derby in order to make the RS believe they are back on track.
747 Posted 14/03/2012 at 12:32:36
765 Posted 14/03/2012 at 13:23:47
Logical, concise, consistent.
The Moyesites need to read this (somehow I don't think they will).
773 Posted 14/03/2012 at 13:22:22
Moyes played the full strength squad and we went for it tooth and nail like we did against Spurs. Fellaini carded and out the next match, Jelavic pops his guts and is finished for the season and Heits gets sent off for kicking lumps out of Suarez. Gerard plays like he only ever plays against us and it bottoms out a 2-2 draw.
We get a point in the league which, on balance, is fucking meaningless.
We go into the cup game less Fellaini, Heitinga and the rest of the season without Jelavic. We lose it because we've, literally, bust a gut last night.
How many are straight on here bleating and bitching about dickhead Moyes spurting away our chance for a jolly down to Wembley just for a point against the shite which is neither here or there to the league positions?.
Saw the formation same as everyone last night, knew down to the minute what his plodding and predictable game plan was going to be. Was sickened that we were going to get turned over just like everyone else. Saw why he was doing it though.
We wont automatically get turned over by Spurs or whoever at Wembley, if we get there, short memories on some of you but we just beat Spurs....and we saw they lacked a gameplan to get past us. So whats more important?. A shot at a, lucrative, Wembley semi-final or maybe a point on the league table?.
Anyone answering 'the league' ask yourself whether you'll be wanting to make the trip down to London for the semi's?.
774 Posted 14/03/2012 at 13:40:24
My young son was almost in tears, even more so when I told him, "If we get through on Saturday, mate, and draw them, I won't be going. I couldn't take no more of them because that's what'll happen if we do get through.
He totally misunderstood what that game means to us. His tactics, his bizzare team selection, his inability to inspire anyone when we go a goal down...
779 Posted 14/03/2012 at 13:49:06
"Saw the formation same as everyone last night, knew down to the minute what his plodding and predictable game plan was going to be. Was sickened that we were going to get turned over just like everyone else. Saw why he was doing it though."
So you saw why he was doing it because you have a crystal ball that showed you Jelavic becoming herniated, Fellaini and Heitinga carded, and a 2-2 draw.
At least now I know why people staunchly support Moyes. You're all basket cases.
780 Posted 14/03/2012 at 13:47:45
thats only an alternative view. Not reality.
If we had your attitude or view then we'd have a complete different team every week.
Fellaini played the full game and wasn't carded.
Jelavic could have popped his guts in training or in the first minute of the Sunderland game.
Heitinga never played so we don't know if he kicked lumps out of Suarez or not BUt he might get sent off in the first minute of his next game.
Steve. The game is footy thats what its all about.
We do not have the strength of squad to make wholesale rotations.
What we have is a small squad and we have to play our best team for each game and worry about the consequences after.
Regarding your last paragraph what are you going to say if we are not walking down Wembley Way on Cup Final day ??
790 Posted 14/03/2012 at 14:09:12
Like we saw with the derby a couple of seasons back when Carra kicked Pienaar up in the air inside the first minute. The shite arent above dirty play. Fellaini, Heits etc arent above matching like for like either are they?.
He puts the lads out...full strength side...orders to go at them hard....like he did with Spurs. Are we more or less likely to end up with carded/injured players?. Simple question?.
John I'm not saying we have the strength in depth to rest players like he did. In 30 years I cant ever remember a manager resting players in a derby match....not once.
I'm saying that the point we'd likely settle for as a fair result at Anfield...with them picking their game up as we all know they always do against us....is no consolation for losing players we cant replace in the squad.
I'm saying that if we had a point and no Fellaini, Jelavic etc, etc there would a list of the same names on here posting about Moyes' naievete pissing away at our chance for silverware just for a measely bloody point and I believe a lot of the stress the 'anti-Moyes' brigade has is exactly because he hasnt won any of the tin pots they crave so much.
791 Posted 14/03/2012 at 14:07:49
He might have thought he was being clever with his team selection but ultimately keeping a confident unbeaten streak to carry us on through the remainder of the league fixtures and cup game would have been the order of the day.
All he's done now is put everybody under a cloud. I do try to keep a balanced view on in him as a manager but he's so fucking frustrating.
810 Posted 14/03/2012 at 14:24:33
Provided the other side turns up - the one that played against Man City (H), Chelsea (H) and Spurs (H) - then we'll win against Sunderland on Saturday, but what then? Spurs or Chelsea at Wembley would be a very different proposition than at Goodison, while it doesn't seem to matter where we play the RS, something always seems to prevent us from beating them.
Last night's ridiculous selection put all of this season's eggs in one very flimsy basket and would've been more or less inexcusable whoever we were playing. But given who we were playing and where we were playing, it surely becomes a sacking offence. Or would be at any other club, where the relationship between the Chairman and the Manager wasn't quite so cosy.
With on-costs, Everton Football Club is paying in excess of £10,000 PER DAY, every single day of the year for the doubtful privilege of being managed by David Moyes. Isn't it about time he delivered some value for money? And if that is beyond him, as it seems to be, and if his contempt for the fans who help to pay his ridiculous wages is as great as last night's team selection shows it to be, then isn't it about time he did the decent thing and plied his trade elsewhere?
818 Posted 14/03/2012 at 14:33:34
824 Posted 14/03/2012 at 14:40:35
Won a cup, qualified for Europe, played very badly last game so a response was demanded, able to play a strong, committed team and go for the win. (As per v Arsenal ? they lost but battered them.)
Come Sunday, if they then lose to Stoke, they can say; 'Trophy, been to Wembley anyway, Europa, beat EFC twice, pretty good season in this transitional period' etc.
Moyes had to be careful. I agree maybe too careful. Although I was surprised Felli was playing given he would have been suspended if booked. He did well to keep his nose clean. I would have played Cahill (if not carrying an injury) re his goals v them.
Took a bit of stick today here in Liverpool but all bouncing off for now. Not reacting pisses them off even more anyway. All rests on Saturday. See you there.
ps: I would imagine Martin O'Neill was groaning not laughing at the end. They now face a wounded animal. The atmosphere has been excellent at all the Cup games (bar Telford) and after last night I expect it to be off the scale. Moyes and the team better respond.
829 Posted 14/03/2012 at 15:08:47
An alternative view.
Moyes plays his most consistent defender in Heitinga who totally snuffs out Suarez and his dangerous link mup play.
Neville is cajolling the team and does a Bale on Downing who is subbed after 5 minutes.
Cahill is bitting the fucking legs off Gerrard who doesn't have a look in all night and because he is so fucked up by Cahill Fellaini steamrolls the shit the Shite have in midfield.
Drenthe and Pienaar are causing so much havoc on the wings that their full backs can't cross the halfway line.
Osman who is playing just behind Jelavic is linking him up brilliantly with the midfield.
Jelly who just scored a cracker at the weekend and is full of confidence is far too smart for old arse Carra and scores a brilliant hat trick.
We win 3-0. The run continues. The confidence is sky high for the next game.
Guess what we don't get one injury or booking.
We're above the RS in the league.
They're so devestated Stoke beat them 12-0. Of course we cruise over Sunderland with Jelly scoring 8 fucking goals.
Well Steve, like your scenario. It could have happened.
Trouble is we'll never know cos that ball less prick of a manager chickened out and left true Evertonians to take shit off the Shite !!
883 Posted 14/03/2012 at 16:52:45
An alternative view of reality?
Ok, I'll give it a go.
Erm...We win 3-0, Gerrard gets a red card in the 84th minute for a late challenge on Piennar.
A close, hard-fought 1-1 draw. We kept possession well but in reality, didn't create many clear-cut chances
With the game balanced at 0-0, with four minutes to go, a strange light appears above Anfield.
The game stops and players and supporters look up.
What appears to be some sort of vast spaceship emerges through the night clouds.
Everyone watches open mouthed.
"WHAT THE F...."
Texts start being received by those in the ground, informing people these..'things' are all over Europe.
The 'visitors' don't fire on the crowd, they don't attempt to make any contact, they just....sit there.
Soon police are everywhere instructing people to go home and to 'stay off the streets'.
The evacuation is incredibly quiet and well-organised given the circumstances.
It seems the unthinkable and unbelievable has actually happened.
A life-form from another planet has....arrived.
Fact: These three 'alternative versions of reality' were ALL possible before kick off last night.
They COULD have happened.
But they didn't so..so fucking what?
Really, what 'point' are you making
Talk about deluded (certifiable imo).
You talk about last night as if it was a choice between a derby win OR....Wembley.
Newsflash - WE COULD HAVE HAD FUCKING BOTH!
Oh and by the way, I know some will say one of my examples actually COULDN'T happen and you're probably right.
I was basically exaggerating for effect.
However I do believe the 1-1 draw and the spaceship COULD have happened!
973 Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:04:02
Just fuckin' relax boys; Jesus Christ.
I said at the beginning of the season that a trip to Wembley and Premier League survival would be a successful season for Everton; I still stand by that.
So, if we win on Saturday, I'll be happy.
Fuck the derby, get behind them on Saturday and lets have another trip away to Wembley.
031 Posted 14/03/2012 at 21:50:00
"And now you're gonna belieeeeve uuuuuus...
We're gonna survive the league"
So we're now football's version of the white Rhino?
Survival = success?
Fuck me, no wonder Moyes isn't arsed about not winning at Anfield when there are supporters who'll happily accept survival as long as we get to a semi-final.
034 Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:05:26
035 Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:07:52
037 Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:12:59
No other manager in living memory would have done that but Moyes gets away with it because he is the Moyesiah etc etc
Pitiful and an insult to every blue who has had the bile and shite thrown at them as we have today
I have no believe in him anymore after last night and feel sickened by the imagine of him sat on the bench sulking as we went 2 down
No need to worry though "HE'S GOT RED HAIR AND WE DON'T CARE" etc, etc etfucking etc....
044 Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:31:04
045 Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:39:32
181 Posted 15/03/2012 at 12:44:03
Everton fans moan and groan and thats all. Moyes has us well and truly sussed and that is why he does to us what he dare not do at Celtic.
406 Posted 16/03/2012 at 07:05:54
Robbie - what the fuck has that got to do with it like....?!? I bet you a big gold pig that I've done more miles to watch Everton in the last month, than you've done all year lad...
Peter - you're fuckin' eyes would probably fall out if I showed you my (white) gut mate......
Tomorrow will either vindicate Moyes' decision, or make him look like a twat. There's going to be slightly more pressure on the team to get a result now, but we'll beat this lot; they're fuckin' shite. Either way I'll be there.
408 Posted 16/03/2012 at 07:36:11
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