People have talked about the possibility of player sales in the Summer. Various names ? notably Rodwell and to a lesser extent Jagielka ? have been bandied about. For some time I have felt that the real challenge this Summer will be hanging on to Leighton Baines.
Opposing managers have long since spotted that if they can stop Baines, then he is our main threat from open play. Also, his dead ball expertise has begun to gain more attention recently.
The usual suspects would take our hands off if we offered Baines for sale: the Shite would like him certainly; and even if ??Arry ain?t no longer there?, whoever takes over at Spurs must see the mouth watering prospect of Baines and Bale attacking down the left flank.
My fears have grown recently because apart from Cashley, Baines could arguably replace the current left back at any of the likely CL teams. Baines himself has given us good service. He has only one career, and would we now stand in his way if he had the opportunity to test himself against Europe?s best?
For me this encapsulates the real indictment of the current régime. I can understand, now that I think he has come clean, that Kenwright is looking at around £500m in order to sell. But if that is the case, and he does care about the club, then whilst waiting for a rich Godot to turn up, he must in the meantime find some resources from somewhere. This would at least keep us where we and offer some hope to ambitious players that we can retain our current personnel and position.
Tony McNulty, Posted 07/04/2012 at 15:51:07
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242 Posted 07/04/2012 at 17:11:26
244 Posted 07/04/2012 at 17:13:57
252 Posted 07/04/2012 at 17:22:29
264 Posted 07/04/2012 at 17:41:26
266 Posted 07/04/2012 at 17:49:26
272 Posted 07/04/2012 at 17:59:41
275 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:26:08
Of the 3 I'd prefer to lose Felli first, then Jonny.
277 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:23:38
Man City need a quality player in that position so watch out for a summer akin to the Lescott saga
278 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:34:43
284 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:21:53
The Torres situation - Russian kleptocrat spends petty cash to buy flavour of the month. Anfield half-wits use much of it to buy Sunday league player.
Arteta was great for us - but I will never forgive him. And if he could do what he did any player might. But that's not the same as being a selling club.
We are not - I hope - a selling club simply to be able to afford to survive. We would never have had Jelovic if that was the case.
286 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:41:47
Rodwell is dispensable as is Barkley, Jagielka and Anichebe although none of the first three will fetch anything approaching £20M and the Big Fella is in the £5M category.
One of these will go for certain but Baines... forget it!
287 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:50:10
I only wish I was as certain in life about one thing, as you seem to be about everything.
291 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:56:39
"There isn`t a chance in hell that Leighton will leave us this summer. He is as big a fixture as Davey and Captain Pip, I can assure you".
Keep the faith!!
293 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:56:26
Do not get rid of Rodwell Barkley or Duffy, do your best to keep Fellaini Heitinga, Jelavic, Baines but, if you do sell, you've got to be talking 20 m min.
294 Posted 07/04/2012 at 19:03:28
298 Posted 07/04/2012 at 19:04:06
If I could bring a player in to play up front with Jelavic, it would be Defoe ? that would be something else... alas, we can only dream. COYB.
300 Posted 07/04/2012 at 18:39:00
301 Posted 07/04/2012 at 19:37:08
304 Posted 07/04/2012 at 19:28:22
The only way they would go is player pressure (which frankly should be stamped down on at EVERY club), and whilst it's conceivable Heitinga and Felli (or at least his father) could try and exert that there are clearly more expendable and saleable assets.
I'm not convinced Jagielka should be one of them either (at the very least he's an amazing back up central defender), but compared to the options above he'd be a better option. I'd cry no tears over shifting along the massively overrated Rodwell though or the harshly treated but inconsistent Anichebe and without wanting to seem disloyal there's also a strong case for loosing Timmy Cahill for his final payday (and freeing up some budget too!)
If we got c £10M for Rodwell and Anichebe (high valuations compared to what they've achieved, but they are young still) and shipped out Cahill, then spent half on getting Pienaar back a little on signing Drenthe on a free and gave most of the rest to the bank (aside from a couple of loan fees) for prospects in the Drenthe/Stracq mode (i.e. talented but not likely to attract bigger clubs for one reason or other) I'd be happy.
The squad would be slightly smaller, but I think we could push Barkley through, get Coleman and Gueye playing more regularly and give a few more youth players a proper chance (Duffy, McAleny and maybe Hope too) to provide some options behind a very strong first 11.
311 Posted 07/04/2012 at 20:40:04
Got to negotiate my image rights with you first!
313 Posted 07/04/2012 at 20:38:38
Sure there will be comings and goings but Baines won't be one of them.
Rodwell won't be sold until he is fully fit and has some games under his belt otherwise BK won't get the right price.
Some others who have seen their best days may go on free transfers such as Distin,Cahill,Osman,Neville and of course
The squad needs fresh younger faces.
Keeping the same faces will just produce the same scrappy results and they will be a year older.
314 Posted 07/04/2012 at 20:49:26
318 Posted 07/04/2012 at 20:52:13
321 Posted 07/04/2012 at 21:08:46
Just to cite two of the variables which could affect this:
- the bank decides they want cash and he gets seen as the most in demand or saleable asset
- he himself decides he wants to go to test himself against or play as part of Europe's elite (when that happens they are off faster than rats up a fucking drainpipe - it happened to Arteta, Lescott, Rooney and elsewhere with Ronaldo)
325 Posted 07/04/2012 at 21:30:40
342 Posted 07/04/2012 at 22:46:54
346 Posted 07/04/2012 at 23:13:12
Don't get me wrong, Bale is a far superior player, but Pienaar cuts in a lot and gives Baines some space. Bale's more direct, predominantly left footed, so tends to stay wide, therefore restricting Baines a bit.
With him moving abroad, didnt he reject a move to Bayern last summer? If he rejects a move there, probably in the top 5 clubs in the world at the moment, then I doubt he would move abroad.
361 Posted 08/04/2012 at 01:37:18
Jagielka should be first out the door closely followed by Rodwell. Both have regressed so far it's untrue. Be lucky to get 5m a piece.
373 Posted 08/04/2012 at 04:34:17
Need new owners though.
376 Posted 08/04/2012 at 04:42:51
It'll all come down to what the accounts say in May (although we won't see them until October) and I don't expect it to be good.
As a possible replacement for Baines, that Kyle Naughton looked good coming on at left back against us last night. Was he the one we were after from Sheffield or was it Walker?
389 Posted 08/04/2012 at 08:32:49
395 Posted 08/04/2012 at 09:35:24
The attendances are down significantly, so much so that the calculation shows that increasing season ticket prices will probably lose less than the current pattern of holding early bird prices at last seasons full price (which is only a lag effect anyway).
If we accept that last summer and January's player trading balances itself out approximately, then it's not difficult to imagine that there will be a trading loss before finance charges. The run in the FA Cup will offset some of the reduced matchday revenue, but from memory getting to the final in 2009 wasn't worth much more than £3m.
Therefore we could be looking at a loss in the region of £7-8m, and if DM wants to bring in a couple of new faces, even on loan, that means at least one "name" on the way out.
Whether the player wants to go or not is immaterial. Everton has been selling players against their will and spinning it to suit the club for decades. The fans have been swallowing it for decades. It's what they do.
396 Posted 08/04/2012 at 09:44:26
So if we have to sell it would be Jags for me. We would get around 8 million. Then a couple of fringe players like Anichebe. This would rake in another 5million which would allow us to go out and buy one proven experienced forward to support Jelavic and keep Peanuts. I would let Stracq go.
The secret is then to hit the ground running in August and beat teams like Wigan and Norwich at home. We have better players than Newcastle, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal we just need to function as a team for the whole season and I would make Heitinga captain.
You can't beat a bit of optimism.
The key then is to hit the ground running in August.
403 Posted 08/04/2012 at 10:16:05
Most likely departure is Rodwell though his price has probably halved in the last 6 months since his promising England debut.
I think the revolving doors will be pretty quiet this summer with main business revolving around Pienaar and maybe Drenthe and Denis.
409 Posted 08/04/2012 at 10:27:01
Short of placing people on the transfer list, which instantly reduces their value, we don't sell players; other clubs buy them and they choose who they want to buy.
439 Posted 08/04/2012 at 13:31:52
The only thing you get from winning the FA Cup is kudos.
There is no great financial reward and any monies gained would not pay the electric bill for a season.
449 Posted 08/04/2012 at 14:05:20
467 Posted 08/04/2012 at 18:15:01
487 Posted 09/04/2012 at 02:50:41
Steve #409 is right, we can only sell players that we recieve bids on and we're not likely to recieve good money bids for the underperforming players in our squad which make Baines the most attractive candidate for other teams.
489 Posted 09/04/2012 at 03:15:20
As for Rodwell, he's our player so we know all about his injuries and form, but other clubs are more likely to think about the promising youngster who made his england debut not long ago and so, would still be interested, especially if he gets fit and playing again. Much of the same would be true of Jagielka. Therefore, I think the value of either would be higher than that has been predicted on here.
491 Posted 09/04/2012 at 03:39:04
494 Posted 09/04/2012 at 04:11:14
495 Posted 09/04/2012 at 04:34:39
The reason is no Champions League experience.
So he has a decision to make in the summer and it probably won't come around again.
499 Posted 09/04/2012 at 07:27:31
Would he go? Would Moyes sell him to them?
501 Posted 09/04/2012 at 07:36:40
Baines is a good player but over rated. He is defensively weak in terms of his positioning, tackling and aerially. He cost us a goal against Norwich (alongside his co-conspirator Distin) marking space when the ball came across - How many times have we conceded like that this season? Lot's..
502 Posted 09/04/2012 at 07:44:34
Or a swap, Jags for Lescott?
503 Posted 09/04/2012 at 07:52:22
506 Posted 09/04/2012 at 08:10:34
508 Posted 09/04/2012 at 08:17:08
509 Posted 09/04/2012 at 08:18:59
He probably wants big wages and would have no sell on fee , but he makes us tick that you would struggle to get so guaranteed for a modest outay. If we can get him in, we need a right midfield and another striker. That will cost wedge and I would be prepared to sell 2 from 3 of Jags, Coleman and Rodwell.
522 Posted 09/04/2012 at 10:18:37
525 Posted 09/04/2012 at 10:27:54
Deffo, Rodwell imo has been overrated, and it wouldn't suprise me if he's off to Man Utd this summer as part of the Gibson deal. ;-). If we get over £10mil for him, I'll be happy. Jags tho I'm still not 100% sure... we have imo three great CBs, but will find it difficult holding on to JH if he feels he's not wanted; he's been on fire this season. I think we need to keep Jags if we can. Also don't wanna see Baines go nowhere either.
540 Posted 09/04/2012 at 13:25:22
He wouldn't join the shite either, as this interview tells us...
555 Posted 09/04/2012 at 14:05:49
609 Posted 09/04/2012 at 17:48:47
Straq out, Pienaar in, maybe time to cash in on Cahill as well, I would replace him with Dempsey, can play the Cahill role but also play in midfield and wide right.
Drenthe could make us some money like Beckford, not sure he is Moyes's type, but get him in on a free and if things dont work out we could get 5-10M for him in the January.
We also need to pick up some younger replacements for Distin and Neville in the near future.
618 Posted 09/04/2012 at 18:46:00
Johnny Heitinga is a tremendous centre half and if he is offered Champions Legue football, as he should be playing, he will be off.
The Jag aint flavour of the month so we should be selling, apparantly.
He is club captain, an England international, who could have agitated for the Arsenal move but didnt.
He is a cracking player. He should not be, and if its down to Moyes i very much doubt he will be, sold.
632 Posted 09/04/2012 at 18:57:20
Jags 7 mill as a proven centre half and Rodders 3 millionish for someone who likes a punt.
635 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:19:13
637 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:21:48
I reckon Duffy has a future, and I also reckon that Seamus can be 'coached' into being a full back. A lot of defensive coaching, but certainly worth a punt.
638 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:15:50
And disappointing as this season has been and injury prone your Rodwell valuation is insane Barry!!
Theres this crazy premium on players just for being English, the Henderson fee is all we need to compare it with. Bit of potential, get a cap and its double figures. Rodwell also seems very highly regarded within the game, but it is getting to the stage where he has been underwhelming.
I feel thats mainly due to injuries and not being able to get a rythm going. Still only 20/21 as well. Plenty of time, as the Barkley zealots would do well to remember
642 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:30:07
As for Ross Barkley.. I just get the hint of not really knowing what to do with him next ?
653 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:36:34
Ive seen Rodwell run mids fort the under 21's, Phil Nevile says he's the most 2 footed player hes ever seen.......but its not happening, althoughh the injuries are really stalling him.
Rodwell views himself as a box to box midfielder. I dont know how many times he has been given the opportunity to be that player at Everton, not enough in my eyes.
I have advocated selling him on a couple of threads, as based on what he has shown so far he would be no great loss.... and for the dollar....but also for the sake of his own development, to a more footballing team who would maybe use him more effectively.
We play him so deep and all the dribbling, bursting attacking aspects of his game seem to have disappeared. When he was in the England squad... straight into an attacking mid role.
We tend to play him holding role, i dont think that gets the best out of him, and i actually dont think hes that good at it. Best holding players tend to be more experienced i feel.
I think he does have alot more than he has been allowed to sow ansd injuries have let him show. But i am a little worried about his personality, the anonymity in some games.
Currently, yes i am maybe leaning to him becoming a Jermaine Jenas, unfulfilled potential type. i think its there though. He needs an injury free season, badly. Its still very early........*crosses fingers*
655 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:53:06
But Dalglish's valuations as a yardstick for transfers......oh dear!
656 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:51:04
If we are ever going to progress, we need a squad. Todays bench looked good for me and competition for places, big game coming up or not was nice to see.
We need to remember that a fair few of our better performers are not Everton players, they will leave in a few weeks.
I also think we could pinch a few of the decent prospects out of Glasgow Rangers team for absolute peanuts, dont laugh, they have some good ones.
663 Posted 09/04/2012 at 19:58:57
Its absurd, but a fact. So stop talking utter bollocks with a £3mil Rodwell and comparing the Jag to virtually a championship player and get in the real world. Its you who is as off the scale as Dalglish.
Mark, dont disagree with alot of that. I just sometimes wonder the best way to get Moyes a bit of dollar to play with at minimum disruption to the squad.
Currently we are looking much better balanced with a £500k midfielder
Plus if Rodwell actually fulfils the potential he has got then, lets be honest he will get taken anyway as the constant Chelsea/Utd rumours suggest. Playing for one of those clubs may be better for him than the rigid system he plays in here that, for me, throttles his game.
But yes, of course i want a strong, deep Everton squad.
729 Posted 09/04/2012 at 22:40:57
First you say this:
"the Henderson fee is all we need to compare it with"
Then contradict yourself by ridiculing the man who bought Henderson:
"Its you who is as off the scale as Dalglish."
Get a grip it's you talking "utter bollocks" if you can't take an alternate view wind your neck or at least be consistent, nob'ead.
731 Posted 09/04/2012 at 22:54:12
A player, who has had an England cap, young, with potential, and is already experienced in the Prem.
For 3 million?
Doesnt that sound a bit stupid to you?
755 Posted 09/04/2012 at 23:50:20
It's academic, the lad appears to be an injury prone player and hasn't progressed.
What you and others are tuned into is the media hype of the "next big thing" a few years ago.
Kidding yourselves, now that's stupid.
BTW look up the one cap wonders that england have had then disappeared, it means fuck all.
783 Posted 10/04/2012 at 02:33:25
786 Posted 10/04/2012 at 03:24:15
787 Posted 10/04/2012 at 03:33:03
852 Posted 10/04/2012 at 10:53:31
You're putting words in my mouth mate, I didn't call him the next big thing. Hes got potential, he looks a natural footballer, but next big thing I'm not too sure about.
And how old is he? 20? So you think he's injury prone all his career even though he's so young? Another not so clever statement.
I think you won't get anyone agreeing with 3 million for him. It is pretty loony.
911 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:00:26
Lets be clear.
You have, flippantly or not, valued Rodwell at £3million. Lets be generous and call that questionable.
You also have the Jag valued at £7's.
The same as Roger Johnson.
Now, you will notice a theme emerging here. What im consistently saying is, your talking out of your arse.
I believe there is a premium on English players and referenced the Henderson fee, amongst others on which you have made no comment. The Henderson example is the most relevant bearing in mind age, postion and caps.
Dalglish has overpaid for Henderson, a fee which i believe is "off the scale". Imo Liverpool have overpaid by around £6 mil, even in the context of young English players going for an excessive amount.
But it is typical of the premium which exists on young capped English players and is a clear trend, highlighted by the the other players I have mentioned, of which there are more.
I feel, with this premium on English players, even an underperfoming Rodwell fee would lie around £10/11/12 mil, hopefully rising if he can put in consistent, injury free performances.
I struggle to think of any reasons, based in reality, other than a flippant post, that £3 mil is a realistic valuation.
Please attempt to justify, it will be amusing.
You do seem to think your omniscient Barry, but sometimes its just best to admit you have typed plain shite.
Finally, I wasnt ridiculing Dalglish.
I was ridiculing you.
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