Season 2011-12
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When David Moyes eventually leaves Everton, I will feel a degree of anxiety. Whatever one's views of him are, it seems to me that he is, at the very least, a safe pair of hands. I don't subscribe to the view that we would have been relegated without him; we might have been... but maybe we would have won a trophy and played better football. It's all conjecture and opinions.

It has been my view for some time that we are stale and a change must come. I don't believe that Kenwright will sack Moyes and, despite my long running criticism of him, I believe sacking him would be to some extent unjust and would most certainly reflect badly on Everton. I do believe his time has run it's course, though, and I think and hope that he would accept a decent offer from elsewhere.

I think he will go to Celtic and I think it will be sooner rather than later. His defenders sometimes deflect criticism by asking who will replace him. Yes, there are always flavours of the month: Holloway, Rodgers, Lambert, Poyet and now Martinez. Any one of them might do a good job or it might well be disaster. Of those I've mentioned, I'd probably choose Lambert. He seems to me to have some of the attributes of Moyes but with a little more flair.

The critics of Moyes are often asked to put up an alternative or shut up. Well, here's my choice, a name I first suggested a few years ago and was roundly mocked for, Glenn Hoddle.

A super player who set out his teams to play proper football. He lost the England job because of flakey religious beliefs. A very strong character capable of dealing with flair players, As Dave Wilson recently said, his dropping of Gascoigne demonstrated a ruthlessness that David Moyes lacks.

His academy has him in contact with grass roots European football. He has still the reputation to attract good players and there are few of them who can look down on his footballing ability. Gary Neville said recently that England could do worse than appoint him for the Euros.

Most importantly he has something to prove, or, as he puts it, "unfinished business". He is experienced, can develop young players and, importantly, won't cost a lot.

This is not a Moyes Out rant. Merely a recognition that, realistically, his reign will soon end and we need to think of alternatives.


Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 18/04/2012 at 20:29:40

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Dave Roberts
324   Posted 18/04/2012 at 21:49:35

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Hoddle's dropping of Gazza may well have been 'ruthless' but it also deprived England of any iota of real flare in that tournament.

For which we eventually paid the price.

By the way it wasn't merely 'flakey religious beliefs' that proved the undoing of Hoddle. It was his contention that disabled people in this life were being punished for sins in a former life. That is not madness it is fucking demented.

Thanks but no-thanks. I don't want a demented cultist running this club thank you very much.
Paul David
328   Posted 18/04/2012 at 22:00:28

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I think Moyes will be here another year then go when his contract runs out,all this depends on the reaction he gets at the next home game though.
Lee Courtliff
334   Posted 18/04/2012 at 22:09:18

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Don't know what happened there. Glen is very experienced no doubt but didn't he flop at Spurs? At this stage in his career I doubt he is suddenly going to become a runaway success. I would rather have a young, hungry manager like Martinez,Lambert,McDermott,etc. I think appointing Hoddle for the Euros is a decent shout due to his international experience but not my choice to manage us. I want somebody fresh.
Mark Riding
358   Posted 19/04/2012 at 00:24:31

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My criteria:
A winner as a player.
Not a defender.
A link with Everton.
Hungry for sucess.
Likes attacking, attractive, yet effective football.
Young and hungry.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but do you know who the answer would / could have been ??
Yep, Gary Speed.

I really feel a link with the club is essential if Moyes does go. Director of football or whatever, someone needs to get across a few basic 'how much beating Liverpool actually means' facts to the players...
Paul Holmes
360   Posted 19/04/2012 at 00:41:14

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Andy Crooks what a brilliant post, GLEN HODDLE would be a brilliant manager for Everton, and we would be lucky to get him as he would walk into our team even now!

Who would you rather have Hoddle or Osman ?

Who would you rather have, a man that has played at the highest level and managed at the highest level or a negative second rate centre half from Celtic reserves ?

If any posters choose OSMAN and MOYES from my questions then some of our supporters need help!
Paul Holmes
361   Posted 19/04/2012 at 00:50:56

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HODDLE, HODDLE, HODDLE!

Great shout Andy Crooks from Belfast.
Domino Darkley
364   Posted 19/04/2012 at 00:54:06

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Domino Darkley
365   Posted 19/04/2012 at 00:55:50

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Stuart McCall
Dick Fearon
368   Posted 18/04/2012 at 23:40:00

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Almost anyone would be hard pressed to do worse than Moyes, I base that on what he has actually done over the past decade. He whinges on and on about a lack of transfer money yet what he had was no worse than other mid table managers.
He has more to spend on wages of players and his huge backroom staff of ex defenders.
He also has a training facility the envy of most if not all clubs in world football.
He has always had the full and unreserved backing of the chairman and board who have made him one of the highest paid managers in the UK.
He has wasted a small fortune on pre season jollies that from a results point of view have been a complete waste.
If the first half of recent seasons are anything to go by, a couple of weeks on Southport sands would serve just as well.

The yield from our academy is practically non existent. Rooney is the only player of note to hold down a regular first team place though that is with another club
.
We had a few supposed super stars in the making but since Moyes put him under protection he has had a succession of injury problems. The other who showed promise apparently needs showing how to defend. After ten years with the club that is a poor reflection on his previous coaches.
I would dearly wish to see the back of Moyes and the sooner the better.
Jim Harrison
377   Posted 19/04/2012 at 05:16:37

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"Almost anyone would be hard pressed to do worse than Moyes"

Do you reckon the fans of Portsmouth, Birmingham, Wolves, charlton, West ham, Ipswich, Middlesborough to name but a few would agree?

Criticizing shite play, fair point. Criticizing unadventurous line ups and negative tactics, fair play.

But to judge him as a useless failure just doesn't do the guy justice. Limited, yes. I hope he either learns to attack or finds a new job.

When he took over the club was in a shit state. his major achievement was to put together a younger team capable of staying in the premier league. job done. the fact that he managed to get a team with players like Bent and Kilbane anywhere near champions league proves he must have had some skills.

I think he should have moved on a couple of seasons ago, a good move for the club and the man.

Anto Byrne
378   Posted 19/04/2012 at 05:35:45

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Sometimes people get jobs that are just a bit too big for them and will struggle. The board saw this ten years ago and gave him a chance to improve and get better. Bingo, we qualify for the CL but we all knew that, without some decent reinforcements, we would be lucky to get through to the next stage.

We were good enough for the Europa Cup but that turned out a disaster. Never mind, we have a good up-and-coming manager who will learn from this and take us forward. The quality of the squad improves but on a limited budget but we still pay huge fees for Fellaini and the Yak and then get a windfall from selling Lescott and we know Distin is just as good but rarely scores goals like the former.

We continue to progress and we continue to play defensive unattractive football... but so what? We are in the Premier League and we are the Best of the Rest. Our manager picks up awards and we think, "Yes, we have a winner here".

The squad put together was the best we had in years, capable of beating anyone, and so we all looked forward to that season... but, typical of EFC, it was a false dawn. The concensus going around was that this was his time, his team and he would deliver the goods.

The football remained negative, the tactics unfathomable and the comments defeatist: "Underdogs", "knife to a gunfight" and "it was a good loss, we played well, and it was only a wonder strike by Van Persie that cost us a point." (No thought about winning the game then?)

So here we are, 10 years on, and the job has out-grown the man. Everton are a big club, massive support from knowledgeable supporters, and we want the right man for this job. Thank you, Mr Moyes, for your efforts and the work you have done but we need to go to the next level.

We want to beat the Shite, the Arse and Manure ? not roll over to them as we have for the last 10 years. Progress is being able to compete with these sides and win games. Three losses to the Shite this season is just not cutting it for most Evertonians. The derby is important, it's tradition that we want to win so when you send out a team at Anfield, it has to be with the aim to win.

We go to Utd and we already know the result. We should be of the mindset that we are good enough to compete with this team and beat them. Until we get a manager with this philosophy, then I fear it will be another 5 years of Moyes.
Alex Willett
382   Posted 19/04/2012 at 07:38:49

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Paul David 328, Moyes will be getting a reaction at the next home game alright!! Enough is enough after saturday.
Ray Jacques
383   Posted 19/04/2012 at 07:36:34

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Hoddle, what a great shout.

At least it would make watching Everton interesting and not the same old bad start, good finish, disappointment in the derby seasons that we get every year.

Perhaps he could employ one of his 'mind bending gurus' to hypnotise the players into believing that we really can beat liverpool.

It appears all other techniques have failed to convince them.

Realistically tho, not a chance of a change like this with the current chairman as we dont take risks.

Dick Fearon
384   Posted 19/04/2012 at 07:26:46

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Jim H # 377, You are correct with the current situation of the teams you mention yet a little more investigation shows a few important differences each of them have completed or partially completed massive stadium reconstruction. The huge cost of those developments severely impacted on the cash available for their managers who could only dream about Moyes shoestring budget and facilities.
West Ham is soon to move into the Olympic stadium and just like City this makes the Hammers a prime take over target with the added attraction of a London base.

In recent years Portsmouth and Birmingham have done what Moyes has found impossible.
FA Cup winners, Pompey 2008.
League Cup winners Brum 2011.
With their new stadia all the clubs you mention can face the future with a degree of confidence that is sadly lacking at dear old old Goodison.
Nick Entwistle
385   Posted 19/04/2012 at 08:02:18

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Ossie Ardiles. Five up front.
Noel Lynam
387   Posted 19/04/2012 at 07:51:48

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Martin Jol.

Gets his teams playing good football, doesn't seem afraid to take a risk, strikes me as someone who believes in playing attack is the best form of defence and has a good eye for a player e.g. I am pretty sure he brought Lennon and Huddlestone to Spurs.

Finished above Moyes' Everton with two 5th place finishes in his two full seasons in charge of Spurs after taking over a team floundering under the previous manager. In fact would have got 4th and Champions League football but for a dodgy lasagne. Very harshly got the chop (in my opinion) after a slow start to the season whereas other managers (!) at similar sized clubs have gotten away with slower starts.

Seems to have Fulham ticking along nicely and getting the best out of their attacking players e.g. Dempsey, Dembele, Pogrebnyak while some of the older players are enjoying an Indian summer under him e.g. Murphy, Duff. No guarantee he'd do the same at Everton but worth a shot, for me.

As an added bonus, has a brother named Cock.
Mark Dunford
388   Posted 19/04/2012 at 07:59:11

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Bizarre notion. There are some really strange ideas doing the rounds at the moment. He has to be one of the most narcissistic men in football - a very competitive field - and is currently flogging an old hat academy project in southern Spain. Hoddle has been out of the management game for some time and - as Dave Roberts points out - is a man who holds completely unacceptable opinions.

Try explaining this one to Everton Disabled Supporters Association. http://www.evertonfc.com/club/edsa.html

Nice quote from Cascarino on Wikipedia -pasted below.
Hoddle's former Chelsea team-mate Tony Cascarino has also commented:
"When Glenn tried to be funny, it was time to pass round the laughing gas because he was probably the unfunniest man I have ever known. He was also completely besotted with himself. If he had been an ice cream, he would have licked himself"
Paul Johnson
390   Posted 19/04/2012 at 08:39:22

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Noel sounds like you carry a torch for Cock.....
Mark McDonald
391   Posted 19/04/2012 at 08:43:49

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Time to go finally foreign for Moyes' replacement - well outside the UK. I would like Marcelo Bielsa currently at Athletico Bilbao ( who we have a connection with albeit back in the 80s when Kendall went there). He has World Cup experience with Argentina and Chile. He teams play an attacking, enterprising game. He is, like Moyes a tough disciplinarian and deserves a chance in the Premiership. Let's get him before Spurs or Arsenal do. I understand he cannot speak English but that is just an obstacle that can be overcome. Watch Bilbao v Sporting in their second semi-final leg of the Europa League.
Richard Parker
392   Posted 19/04/2012 at 08:48:37

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I am concerned about what will happen when Moyes goes. The board are the limiting factor in my eyes and they should be the ones walking. But it looks like Moyes will go before.

Get the right manager in and we could well do better, it certainly would be nice to see what happens if we get a bit more adventurous and play a bit more football. I guess at least that we will answer the perennial 'is he shit or not?' question, probably a couple of seasons after he moves on and he will go soon - I can't see him sticking around for another 5 seasons.

He's done a good job, turning us around from relegation fodder on a limited budget to consistent top-8, and for a while top-5. Could another manager have done more with the Rooney money? Maybe, but I doubt it. Should another manager have taken over when we hit the ceiling? Perhaps, but I think we would have struggled to find someone who was a safe bet to improve us who would have wanted to come.

I can only presume that Dick's comments come off the back of Wembley disappointment because we could well do much worse than Moyes. I have a feeling that we will end up scrapping when he finally goes and I'm not looking forward to him leaving.
Tony J Williams
393   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:05:00

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For a man who is widely acknowledged as getting the best out of limited players, it is very possible that many managers could do a lot worse than Moyes.
Dan McKie
395   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:13:35

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Tony, he could also be accused of not getting the best out of very good players. Moyes is a mixed bag, yes he's safe and you cant ever see us going down or being in any kind of trouble under him, but there is also very little excitement. Theres the odd good run in the league, a decent cup run every 4 or so years, but often Moyes is accused (and often rightly so) of ending these good league and cup runs himself by reverting to a defesive style seemingly from nowhere when the team are playing well. At the moment id describe going to watch Moyes' team as a bit like paying to go to the cinema to see a film you have already seen, that wasnt that good the first time.
Richard Jones
397   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:41:44

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Until we terminate the cancer in our club which is Kenwright, changing anything else Moyes, the stadium or anything else for that matter is futile, they are smokescreens surrounding the real problem.. We need to out him he needs to be pressed mercilessly on the price he wants, hes hiding and bullshitting his way around the issue... The reason he is is because we would be outraged if we new.
Richard Jones
398   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:48:00

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Come on Evertonians dont be manipulated by this FRAUD anymore!!
Richard Dodd
400   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:49:59

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I don`t know how many times and in how many guises we have to have this debate but to suggest Moyes is destined for Celtic is laughable.
The current manager of the Scottish Champions is paid barely half of Davey`s wage at Everton and he is hardly likely to wish to work in a league barely of Championship standard.
As far as Hoddle is concerned,just ask Wolves supporters what they thought of him in his last resurrection.A good gabber he may be but man-management is another thing. And they all sound good on the box,don`t they?
No,Moyes is our man and Gordon Clegg will break the bank to keep him by his side.After all,he`s doomed without him!
Paul David
401   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:44:20

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The sheer number of names being bandied about as possible replacements makes it far too easy for pro-Moyes supporters to ridicule and dismiss the anti-Moyes supporters as idiots.

I wish there was 2 or 3 stand out candidates for the job as every single name mentioned cant possibly be right for us.

I am not even sure who I would want in charge all I know is I have been wanting a change for a while now.If put me on the spot I would go for Lambert even if I am sick of dour scotsman being at the helm.
Barry Rathbone
402   Posted 19/04/2012 at 09:51:12

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I live in the midlands now and I'm going to throw Chris Houghtons name in.

A quiet transformer of clubs where the boardrooms are a shambles and previous managers are survival at any cost merchants ie Newcastle and Allardyce, Birmingham and Mcleish.

He really gets them playing improves results and amazingly is completely without ego.
James Stewart
404   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:12:35

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@ Paul David I definitely agree with your first point. A lot of the names getting banded about are complete maddess. And that is coming from someone who really wants a change.

I do not agree at all with Lambert though. Why do we want someone who is very similar to Moyes!!?

Doesn't anybody watch any football from leagues abroad there are some great coaches and managers.
There is only one candidate for me from this country is Rogers by a long way. Already looks like he is in line for the Spurs job though
GJ Butler
405   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:22:05

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Lee Clarke. Pretty hard done by in his last job in my opinion.
GJ Butler
406   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:24:40

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Or Frank Clarke, former Forest manager in the 90's. For the laugh, like.
Paul David
407   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:17:06

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James
Like I say I could well change my mind in a couple of days because I really am not sure who I would like,am not sure how similar Moyes and Lambert are though.

For Rogders the emphasis seems to be completely on style while for Lambert it seems to be a mixture of effectiveness and football.

I remember Norwich coming to Goodison and every time the ball was crossed into our box there was alway 3 or 4 players there while at the other end we was lucky if we had 1 player trying to get on the end of a cross.
Richard Parker
408   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:22:32

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From the last couple of months and even more so after last night, perhaps we could do worse than Di Matteo...
Richard Dodd
409   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:29:22

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......and even more worser than David Moyes!
Stephen Kenny
410   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:23:00

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Martinez or Hitzfeld for me.Hoddle hasn't really achieved much in the club game despite having a fair few chances.

I also think he's been out the game a long time. If Martinez didn't come and the job was advertised I think we'd be suprised by the calibre of applicant.
Dick Fearon
411   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:28:49

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So what if Hoddle has been out of management for years.
At Wembley we saw Moyes getting his arse wiped by Dalglish. Remind me how long that man was without a club.
Do not take this as a personal vote for Hoddle.
Dick Fearon
412   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:40:52

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If Chelski opt for someone other than De Matteo mmm' and he speaks the lingo.
Nick Entwistle
413   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:37:13

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Chris Houghton? The embodiment of a perennial assistant manager? Do me a favaaaaarrrrr...

Who ever we'd like it to be it could well be coming from in house. Pip Neville, Big Dunc and Sheedy perhaps.
Paul David
414   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:44:43

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Baines is out for the utd game,any chance of taking the game to them just got even more remote
Barry Rathbone
415   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:43:43

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Must admit I'm suspicious of Lambert equals Moyes when the pressure is on, wouldn't be my pick.
Lee Smith
416   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:31:50

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Does anybody know when Big Dunc is due to finish his Coaching badges.......?
Mark Stone
417   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:50:38

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Hows he getting on in the league Dick, you know considering the £100m he spent last summer and all that?
Dave Lynch
418   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:41:35

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Gotta be carefull with forgien managers.

Few of them adapt to the prem style of football, AVB for one.

They attempt to play european league style tactics and it for the most past does not work until they learn the ropes over here.

If Queen Kenny gets another 3 years i would go for Benitez (waits for the abuse).
Mike McIlroy
419   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:41:22

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Reading's new owners are targeting Europe next season wherewas Bill Liar targets survival ... says it all. I have been a fan of Moyes a BIG fan and I tend to like th guy but no more ....his style of play is far too defensive and if he went to a top 4 team he would be exposed as such. He gets away with it because he's just 'poor little Davey' with no money to spend. He isn't shite we are the only team outside the usual suspects who have maintained a Top 10 finish - just look at Villa, Blackburn, Bolton even Fulham - they've all been courted the Top 4 elite with flash in the pan seasons and now they're all wallowing in shite. We're Evertonians though and we demand success we DESERVE success, why? because we're fucking Everton and we deserve to back in Europe's elite. We've shown we're capable of not beating the best in the premiership but twatting them, our football before the Wembley farse was a flash of things that could be. He's taken us as far as he can, he's stabilised us and now we need someone with a pair to take us to the next level - Bilic; Holloway; Reid - I don't care I just want someone who wants to win a game not just not fucking lose it
Peter Bradshaw
420   Posted 19/04/2012 at 10:55:32

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AVB for me, not given a fair chance at Chelski, with Big Dunc as a coach and even Peter Reid as assistant manager.
Paul David
421   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:02:46

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AVB didnt last because he upset the old guard which is exactly what we need someone to do at Everton.I want a British manager though.
Dave Wilson
424   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:07:30

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I`d have Hoddle as our manager tomorrow, but it wont happen.
Kenwright will still be kingmaker.

If Moyes seeks pastures new, there will be only one candidate.

David Moyes`s comment to the press drive people crazy.
Wait till the get a load of Phil Nevilles.

Phil Martin
426   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:17:02

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AVB?

Would be fantastic, however managers with pedigree dont work for Bull Shitters and liars. They can choose their next club and their employer. Why would anyone with experience in winning domestic and european trophies choose to work for Bill?

Hoddle, would be a Keegan-esque appointment resulting in a world of pain.
Thomas Lennon
427   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:10:45

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Clough, Shankly & even Ferguson apparently always sent their players out 'feeling like gods' as Ian St John put it (memory??). Keep it simple, play out of your skin, we are better than them, let them worry about us.

Now every team I can think of that has had that philosophy in the last 20 years hasn't lasted long in the Premiership - ALL of those managers & teams have perished when the team had all that optimism beaten out of them, week after week, sooner or later unless they had VAST amounts of money to spend year on year.

Moyes is the exception. There are several teams below us still who have the income to do better than us, none above. Relegation? Never give it a thought.

The problem is the Premiership. It is worth so much money that survival is everything. Moyes himself has pioneered the conservative model for survival - making many many millions for the club in the process. Do we want dour, occasionally exciting football (what we have now) or open, attacking football and the occasional dip into the Championship? Who amongst you would be screaming for his head if we were in the bottom 3 after a 3-4 defeat at Liverpool? Most of you I would guess.

Peter Davies
429   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:27:32

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Well done Thomas (427) First sane comment I've read on here in ages!
Paul David
430   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:30:35

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Thomas please explain to me why football equals relegation.I am sure you can give examples of teams who went down playing football but Wolves are about to go down and arguably play worse football than use
Kev Johnson
431   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:21:03

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Barry @ 451 - I'm with you there. Lambert = Moyes Lite. We don't want another dour Scot, thank you very much.
OK, let me run this one past you... We should choose the preferred nationality of our next manager first, and then narrow it down to a particular candidate!
I like the idea of an Argentinian: he'd bring passion and attacking flair galore. Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao looks good, but if he doesn't fancy it then step forward Diego 'Crazy Man' Maradona.
So, that's that sorted then.
Tom Winek
432   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:31:45

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Wondered how long it would be until McDermott's name was thrown into the ring.

As for Athletico Bilbao's manager; join the queue.

It'll never happen but if Hoddle became our manager, I think that would be the end of my association with the club. At least until he was sacked.
Tony J Williams
433   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:46:09

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If only it was that simple Kev..... we all know when Moyes decides to go, we will struggle to get a "top" manager, as who would want to come to a skint club wth a bullshit board?

Billy Bullshit will not offer the same wages to another manager
Richard Reeves
434   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:20:44

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Andy, I agree with you on Lambert. Two succesive promotions and Premier League safety. It's more impressive than what Moyes had achieved before joining us.

I also agree that Lambert has similar qualities to Moyes like being honest and humble but with an attacking mindset to games. I've seen a bit of Norwich this season and at times they have played some clever football,breaking at pace. There not gung ho like a Holloway team,he has a good balance of defend and attack.

There are quite a few managers I would like to replace Moyes but here are some that Kenwright should stay away from:
Pulis,
Pulis,
Pulis,
Pulis,
Pulis,
errrrm.... and Megson.
Allan Barratt
435   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:47:49

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As bad as it sounds it'll be Phil Neville.
Martinez would be the man for me but I can't see it happening. He got Swansea playing the way they do now and Rodgers is getting all the praise. What did he do at the other clubs he was at......nothing

We need to see if Moyes is going to go yet.
Chris Owens
436   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:52:26

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Joe Royle.

At least under him we went into derby matches showing some fighting spirit.
Dan McKie
437   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:50:32

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We would again need to go for someone 'up and coming' and give them their first big job. At the moment, we dont have a top manager, we are just paying for one.
Dick Fearon
438   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:36:30

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Mark # 417, I can't stand the wizened old sod yet I give him credit for exposing Moyes as a cowardly tactical pygmy.

Does our single point lead over the RS prove Moyes superiority as a manager or could have something to do them having their worst side in living memory.
Richard Reeves
440   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:53:40

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Allan, that's what I'm worried about and if it happens then Kenwright should be needing that eye in the sky and police escort like Johnson did. It would be another Kenwright discrace.
Dave Lynch
441   Posted 19/04/2012 at 11:58:22

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Richard@434.

Fuck "Honest and humble." I want a manager who is outspoken, can play mind games and motivate a team.

I want one that will come out spitting venom when we have been robbed in another derby by a knob of a referee.

I want one that will tell the team to go out and destroy the opposition instead of defending a 1-0 lead.

I want a winner, with a winners mentality. Not a fucking nodding dog who plays patsy with the press and the board.

I want it now !
Brian Harrison
442   Posted 19/04/2012 at 12:00:21

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Many of those suggested as a succesor to Moyes, have virtually no track record. So it would be very much a gamble, but many will point out that we did that when we appointed Moyes as manager.

The other overiding factor is how do you attract a new manager who will have to sell in order to buy. Oneill left Villa because of lack of funds Hughes left Fulham for the same reason.

Although I would like us to play a more expansive game than we do, I think Moyes deserves a lot of credit. To be in charge of a Premiership club for 10 years is some acheivement. And while no trophies have been won in that time, we have usually been in the top group for most of the 10 years.
Jim Harrison
443   Posted 19/04/2012 at 12:02:19

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Dick 384.

Birmingham, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Charlton and West Ham all play in older stadiums. West Ham's bid for the Olympic Stadium has been rejected. Man City don't actually own their own stadium, it belongs to the council, the Man City owners want to buy it.

Middlesbourough and Wolves do indeed have newish stadiums, built in mid- to late-90s, a decade before their current plight, and I don't remember any issues splashing the cash at the Riverside?

You are right about the cups, and I have said as much. Time for a change. But lets not discredit the guy to such a degree. The job he has done is decent. Nows the time for a change.
Tony J Williams
447   Posted 19/04/2012 at 12:34:33

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"Does our single point lead over the RS prove Moyes superiority as a manager or could have something to do them having their worst side in living memory."

But surely this is down to the manager isn't it? I mean it's always Moyes' fault if the team does poorly, nothing to do with having average players...isn't that how it goes? You can't have it both ways.....well you can if your name is Tara Patrick I suppose..
Dan McKie
449   Posted 19/04/2012 at 12:48:28

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I'm not sure you will get manay people to agree with your collective blame policy, Tony. The fact is the manager takes the flak, and he also takes the praise when we are doing well because he makes the decisions.

You could blame the players on the pitch, but the fact Tim Cahill recently went 13 months without a goal, yet Moyes never dropped him, is the manager's fault. The fact we sat back in the 2nd half of Saturday's game was the managers fault.

Also, 1 point over the redshite doesn't prove his superiority over Dalglish, and it doesn't mean the team has played well neither. I would much rather be a point behind them if we had a trophy in the cabinet, and a chance of another.
Lee Smith
450   Posted 19/04/2012 at 12:58:52

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Tara Patrick? You mean Tera Patrick surely Tony? I should know, I 'reviewed' enough of her 'work' during my teens :)
Ray Jacques
451   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:00:14

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Tera Patrick??

Never heard of her so searched Google.

A fine pair of strikers, just what we need.

Thinks i must have had a sheltered childhood!!!!
Tony J Williams
452   Posted 19/04/2012 at 12:58:42

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I see where you are coming from but it's always the same on here, twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing.

You can bet your last penny that, if Liverpool were above us by one point, posters will be using that as a way to state Dogleash is a better manager; because they are below us (for now) it doesn't count because they beat us in the semi.

It's the usual stance of so many anti-Moyes people, twist any bit of information to suit their argument, like the "we lose because of him but we win despite him" rubbish that gets spouted on here.

Everyone IS to blame, from the board not allowing a transfer kitty suitable for a Preimer League side, the manager for being way too cautious and the players for failing to do what they are handsomely paid to do properly.

You state we sat back in the second half... we didn't, we started to sit back in the first half after the goal, this is obviously before the half-time team talk.

We (Blues) could all see the inevitability of the equalising goal but, to be fair, we had weathered the storm and all the lads I was watching the game with who were Reds all said that they didn't think they were going to score if they played all day... until Distin's error.

It was working, albeit, it wasn't pretty and an indicidual mistake from a player who had been a rock all season killed the game for us.
Dan McKie
453   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:09:22

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Yes, it was an individual mistake, but when tactics like the ones we employed don't work, it is almost impossible to get out of that mindset.

Yes, we did start to sit back after we scored, but do you think that was a collective decision between the 11 players on the pitch, made whilst celebrating the goal? I don't; I think that was the plan, get a goal, then tighten up, I just don't get why... Tighten up after 2 goals, 3 goals, but not 1.

Even when it has worked, I have still slated Moyes for it. Was it enjoyable watching Spurs come at us over and over again in the 2nd half of our game at Goodison? No it wasn't, and it was nothing but relief that the game was over in the end.

There is always a fuck up in the Everton defence, in almost every game; you never know who is going to make it, but you know somebody will. We ain't good enough to sit on 1 goal, but we are good enough to go and get 2.
Ray Roche
454   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:09:48

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Allan Barratt@435

I don't know why you say "as bad as it sounds" when referring to Neville. The man is a winner, and an intelligent one to boot.If you have any dobts about his winning mentality ask him to show you his medals. He's probably got as many as the entire LFC team...

I think he'd make a good manager.
But let's shoot him down before he's airborne, eh?
Stephen Kenny
456   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:13:56

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Tony,

I can appreciate where you come from and your right we sat back as soon as we scored.

But, Surely in that instance the manager should have used half time to put a stop to that and sent them out with a more attacking mindset.

He never. It's not the first time this has happened and we all know it will happen again next time we play a game that matters,

I don't believe all his underdog talk before the game was mind games or anything else. I think he was trying to convince himself because that's the position he likes to be in because he struggles with expectation.

The buck has to stop with the manager.
Brian Waring
457   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:27:12

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Get Gary Neville in as manager, with Phil as his number 2. I'm only joking!

Tell you what though, as a player I despised Gary Neville, as a pundit, I have total respect for him, he is probalby the best out there. There is no biase towards Man U, he tells it as he see's it, a breath of fresh air.

Lee Smith
458   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:32:45

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@ Brian Waring # 457 - You know what, I was thinking the exact same thing about Gary Neville after the Arsenal v Wigan game on Monday. Up until that point I'd been going out of my way to avoid listening to his views and opinions, but I actually sat down and listened to him on Monday and was thoroughly impressed.
David Nicholls
460   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:24:07

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I think if Moyes was to go we would have to be very lucky to end up with a manager as good as him.

That said, If he did go I would want Steve Mclaren to take over. Only if, it was written into his contract that he had to give all his press conferences using his shexy Dutch acshent!! :)
Tony J Williams
461   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:34:03

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"The buck has to stop with the manager" ? So no matter what a player does wrong, it's the manager's fault? A bit unfair don't you think?

That Guardiola is a bit shit isn't he? getting beat by a team we beat a few weeks back!
Dan McKie
462   Posted 19/04/2012 at 13:54:26

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Tony, when has it ever been any different, regardless of whether it right or wrong? When? The buck stops with the manager. I dont get what your problem is with it. If a player is playing rubbish, then the manager brings him off, drops him, sells him, whatever he decides. Moyes continues playing them as long as their name is Cahill, Osman, Neville etc.

Did Guardiola send his team out last night to sit back and defend? Or did they pretty much have the ball for 3 quarters of the game, hit the bar and post and on another day would have scored 3 or 4, and will likely do so next week if they play the same way. Its' hardly comparable is it?
Brian Waring
463   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:08:08

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Tony, it wouldn't need the shite to be a point above us to maybe say Dogleash is a better manager than Moyes, I think the 3 defeats (2 of them quite easy) Moyes has against Dalglish could point to that.
Jim Harrison
464   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:18:24

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Pep's come out and said Chelsea are favorites now, even though form suggests otherwise, must have a losers mentality....
Tony J Williams
466   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:22:46

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Dan, if a player is playing rubbish, yes sub him.....with who? Our squad is gash, we have a decent starting XI and the rest aren't good enough.

I noticed that myself this morning Jim....what a loser!!
Stephen Kenny
467   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:22:11

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Tony,

If you wan't to blame two mistakes for the defeat that's up to you.

I blame a mindset that's been coached into this set of players for a number of years.

They were not limited to two isolated chances. Carroll could have scored a hat trick.

Moyes critics are always accused of missing the 'bigger picture'. I think it's the other way round in this case.
Henry Weindling
471   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:08:52

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There seems to be an ongoing debate over safe, dependable David Moyes vs an unpredictable, adventurous other manager who brings exciting football (Glenn Hoddle in this case).

I remember the games against Wimbledon and Coventry under Mike Walker and Howard Kendall respectively. Well they were certainly exciting, and unpredictable, but to be honest, I wouldn?t fancy a repeat of either of them. And I certainly wouldn?t trade exciting football for our consistent ?best of the rest? league positions.

David Moyes has brought great stability to a club that is, in all honesty, on the verge of financial ruin. What?s more, he has consistently achieved top half finishes, come close to a trophy (which he deserves) on several occasions, finished 4th (the only team outside of the big 5/6 to do so) and delivered a couple of very enjoyable European adventures.

Boardroom mis-management is to blame for the current predicament we find ourselves in, not David Moyes. Maybe Moyes will move on, maybe it is time for a change. But in my view it will launch Everton into an even greater period of uncertainty and we will certainly be worse off without him.
Paul David
475   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:47:57

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The board, Moyes and the Players are to blame to different degree's but the only one who decides team selection, formation, tactics and substitutions is Moyes.
Michael Kenrick
476   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:58:09

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Tony, it's very simple: think of the glory praise adulation and general wonderment Moyes would have reaped if we had won.

Then invert all that ... because we lost. What's wrong with that?
Stephen Kenny
477   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:01:14

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Henry,

It's not one or the other. You can still finish 'best of the rest' and play good football.

Newcastle are proving this every week.
Dan McKie
479   Posted 19/04/2012 at 14:54:07

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Tony, that sounds like the same arguement as changing the manager, the old 'replace them with who'? I'll tell you who, somebody else, thats who.

If Cahill is playing crap, what does it matter who he is replacing him with? At least it would show that he was trying to do something different. Im not saying he has got world beaters to bring on, but so what?

He could have given the shite something to think about and brought Straq and Anichebe on for Gueye and Cahill, anything! Would it have worked? Who knows?

One thing I do know though is that at 1-1, bringing Coleman on was telling them that we wanted pens. Dalglish might as well have said to his team 'everyone up front' for all the defending they had to do.
Dan McKie
480   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:12:19

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You also mentioned earlier that Moyes is renound for getting the best out of average players? Well he had 7 sat behind him on Saturday so he should have been in his element.
Ray Roche
482   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:09:29

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Stephen Kenny

Be fair, Stephen, we have played some bloody good football at different times during Moyes tenure. It's just a shame that we're not playing it week in, week out these days.
Jim Harrison
483   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:10:11

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Coleman came on so we could hold out for an extra 30 mins for pens? Oh, that's why? Nothing to do with putting on a pacy direct player who might help create something?
Michael Kenrick
485   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:16:34

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The pacey direct player who should have been brought on had been ditched, no doubt partly in the interests of maintaining Moyes's iron grip on team discipline... the psychological impact of which must have had a bearing on the rest of the team and their confidence going into the game.
Dan McKie
486   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:18:16

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Coleman is a defender who sometimes bundles his way past a few people (a year ago). As for the Guardiola comment, of course Chelsea are favourites, they are a goal up. Again, not comparable to what Moyes says. We were the ones who were a goal up, yet he still refuses to let his players believe they can win.
Jim Harrison
489   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:24:58

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Said pacy player who allegedly couldn't be bothered to turn up on time?
Jim Harrison
490   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:29:44

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The Guardiola comment was wholly tongue in cheek!
Henry Weindling
491   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:33:57

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Stephen @ 477 - It's not one or the other, but football is a results business and that's the bottom line. I didn't hear Chelsea fans complaining about their style of football under Mourinho - hardly free flowing stuff.
Tommy Coleman
496   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:36:22

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I swear if we were relegated under Moyes, the same old rubbish arguments would still come out from the Moyes Defenders.

What does it take? Are you defending him because you don't want to admit you've been wrong about him?

Everton are the biggest club Moyes will ever control, it's Celtic for him next.

I'd like Marcelo Bielsa as a replacement, be tough to get him though. There's a guy who doesn't shit himself when playing in a big game.
Paul David
499   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:47:31

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A question for the pro-Moyes supporters.


If Moyes was to deploy a more attacking approach would we continue to be best of the rest or would we slip down the league?

Dan McKie
500   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:43:40

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I think Drenthe's talent and the fact we only have him for a month anyway should have just allowed for a blind eye to be turned. I know im saying this in hindsight but you could tell the disappointment with most fans when they heard he wasnt even on the bench. If he is going to act the dickhead anyway, you might aswell let him earn the right on the pitch, but then we have Magaye Gueye and his occasional 'happy to wait for his chance' soundbites.
GJ Butler
505   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:52:34

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You could ask the same to the Anti-Moyes brigade Paul, but as with all rhetorical questions, it's... rhetorical.

Stephen Kenny
507   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:53:37

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Ray,

There have been periods where our football has been brilliant. They seem to be less and less and time goes by.

Swansea and the 2 Sunderland games are the only ones that jump out this season.

We have had other noteworthy results too but I wouldn't say they were achieved playing the beautiful game which I can accept if the intention is there.

Henry,

Neither would you if you went from a cup side to winning everything going in under 12 months. They were also scoring for fun.

You seem to believe safe, dependable, uninspiring football is the reason we are where we are. I believe there's a lot of potential in our squad and we'd be more likely to do a Newcastle than a Blackpool should we find a manager with the beliefs to unleash it.

If long ball, route 1, sit deep and soak pressure style was the best way to ensure success then everybody would be at it. The reason they aren't is down to it's failures, all evident last weekend.
Stephen Kenny
510   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:05:10

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BTW,

We're nowhere near best of the rest. That 'accolade' goes to Newcastle who have been selling their best players and replacing them with young, hungry ones that can play.
Dan McKie
513   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:05:10

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Ahhh, imagine playing like Blackpool. Attacking football, plenty of goals (admittedly at both ends). I had a quick look how they did when they played at Old Trafford last year. Yeah they lost 4-2 which is no disgrace, but they had 51% possession, 14 shots, 7 on target, 8 corners. Bet that was a lot more exciting than what we will serve up.

I watch a lot of Blackpool cos it's my home town, my nephew is a season ticket holder. He looks forward to every game, the jammy little bastard.
Paul David
514   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:06:07

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GJ the reason I ask is because I want to know if they think its Moyes himself or his tactics that keeps us up the league.

I honestly believe his cautious approach has cost us points this season at home. Maybe I am being unrealistic as we're not in a bad position (even though we could easy be 14th in a few weeks, the league is so tight) but with 2 up front we surely would score and win more.
Henry Weindling
515   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:06:08

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Stephen,

Last weekend was one game. Yes it was galling, but you can?t judge Moyes?s whole tenure on this one game. Let's judge him on league finishes.

My belief is that this season we simply haven?t had the players to play good football. Arteta and Pienaar leaving was a huge blow and would leave a gap in the majority of top sides. Surely you remember the days when we had Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill and the Yak in peak condition? I think we passed the ball around superbly and patiently then and the reason being, that we had the players to do so.

I am actually quite optimistic about next season. I feel Moyes is trying to rebuild the squad so that we can play better football, and with a few useful additions, who knows? Jelavic is a great signing, Gibson will hopefully get better, maybe even Rodwell will start to fulfil his potential. Drenthe didn?t quite work out but it could potentially have been an unbelievable coup.

Have a little faith in our favourite Scottish red-head. You never know, you might just like it!
Dave Wilson
516   Posted 19/04/2012 at 15:58:59

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Tommy Coleman,

At last we agree !
Bielsa definitely wouldn't shit himself for the big games... That sorts that one out.

But he`s gonna need a lot of Imodium to stop Cahill, Neville, Distin, Osman, Coleman, Howard and Fellaini from shitting themsleves for the big games.
Tommy Coleman
517   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:18:10

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Glad we finally agree Dave !

I think he'd get rid of those players pretty quick, better to have £15m in the bank than spend £15m on imodium.
Stephen Kenny
519   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:38:03

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Henry,

My faith in him has long gone I'm afraid.

My judgements aren't based on one game either. I've seen us score one and try to sit on it loads of times under Moyes. Bolton this season being one that springs to mind. There are countless others but I wouldn't bother myself to go and look them all up.

My belief is there are footballers right through this side who are being held back by a managers overly conservative nature and fear of loss, rather than a Ferguson like, love of victory.

You can keep the faith as long as you like. I can't really remember one single big game where he done us proud?

Actually I take that back. Fiorentina at home after we done our usual away.

Besides that anyone?
James Morgan
520   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:24:25

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I think Holloway would be a good shout. The guy doesn't care who he is playing, he sends his lads out to play good football and not fear the opposition regardless of who they are. He is also a top character.
I'd love Jurgen Klopp from Dortmund but now I am dreaming! Not only is he keeping Bayern from top spot but he does it in front of 80,000 every week. Somehow can't see him managing at Goodison. I like the idea of a German managing Everton though, they have an intelligence and fearless nature, something I think we lack at our beloved.
Paul David
521   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:49:26

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Stephen there was the Gosling game Vs Liverpool,I dont think the utd game in the semi's should count as it was a draw but your right i'm sctraching my head after that.

Also I can not remember the last time I walked out of Goodison thinking that was a good game.
Thomas Windsor
527   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:03:24

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Time for a change. Moyes has had 10 years, he is the 12th highest paid manager in the world and has won nothing. Plenty of good managers out there... go for Frank de Boer, Glen Hoddle, Martinez Lambert, Holliwell ? there is loads of good mangers ? give them a chance.

Season ticket sales will be down again, Kenwright, so be a man and get a taxi for Moyes.
Ray Jacques
529   Posted 19/04/2012 at 16:54:02

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Stephen, i agree Fiorentina at home was a great effort.

However, it followed an abject display away from home which meant that we had a mountain to climb and our backs were against the wall. hence no pressure.

This to me sums up the Moyes era in that he seems to struggle (and the players do too) with managing and performing when expectations are high.

This could explain defeats to numerous lower league teams over the years in cups.

Additionally perhaps this is why we also start each season poorly when we are full of hope (sort of!!) as it cant be about preparation and fitness in pre season.

Under Moyes we seem to perform well when the expectation is low such as when we have injuries and suspensions which results in limited options. Yet when we have the squad fully available with options then we often struggle.

We can speculate all day over managers but Moyes is basically unsackable with the present Chairman.
Henry Weindling
534   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:24:46

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Come on Stephen, think harder. I'm sure you remember us snotting Liverpool 3-0, the Carsley derby? We've also had some great wins at the City of Manchester Stadium and White Hart Lane. One that stands out in particular for me was a win at Villa Park where Cahill grabbed a brace.

I take your point, his football is dull, particularly at the present time. But he's a results man in a results business. And his results speak for themselves.

We could get Ian Holloway in, it might be entertaining and exciting, but at what cost? Relegation i suspect.
Paul David
538   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:43:11

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Henry,Stephen said big games.There is no way we would get relegated if Holloway was in charge.I asked an open question on another thread but no one took me up on it so i'll you if you dont mind giving me your opinion.

Is it Moyes who keeps us up the league or is tactics?
Craig Walker
539   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:41:24

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Henry #515

People go on about Arteta but how many times did he play well against the bigger teams and in derbies? Maybe once or twice in derby games.

Similarly with Piennaar. I like the guy a lot but how many times does he do well against the RS?

The only time I can remember us having a player (post Duncan Ferguson's first spell) where I thought "this guy will be good in derbies" and it turning out to be true was the Andy Johnson derby. That was one time we were all expectant and we actually thumped 'em.

Brian Waring
541   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:53:28

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Henry, the likes of Holloway would have one huge advantage with us, than he has had with Blackpool, a back four that doesn't concede many goals.
Henry Weindling
542   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:49:24

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Personally I think we only started to appreciate the value of Arteta when he left. He made us tick, constantly probing with quick simple one touch passes, got the ball moving. Gave us a bit of flair which we so badly lack now.

Paul, I wish I knew the answer to your question, then the whole 'Moyes stay/Moyes go' debate would be easily resolved.

My opinion is he's done wonders on very limited resources. I don't think another manager could achieve as good league finishes on his budget. They might bring slightly lower league finishes though but with much more exciting football.
Noel Lynam
544   Posted 19/04/2012 at 17:53:57

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Henry @ 471,

"Maybe Moyes will move on, maybe it is time for a change. But in my view it will launch Everton into an even greater period of uncertainty and we will certainly be worse off without him."

So just to clarify, you think that Moyes' departure would mean a spell of uncertainty where you are certain we would be worse off.

Dave @ 516,

Those players might not shit themselves under Bielsa, or another manager with a different outlook on how the game should be played (i.e. less cautiously) than Moyes seems to me to have.
Paul David
545   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:00:17

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Fair enough Henry.I agree with you about Arteta,we really miss a on form Arteta but his final season he was poor.He stopped shooting or trying a difficult defence splitting pass,everything was safe and easy.For me the rot set in before Arteta left.
Henry Weindling
546   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:07:34

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Noel - that is my opinion yes. But I think it's important to note that the problem is far more deep rooted than the manager himself. It lies with the lack of investment, transfer funds, a new stadium or re-development of Goodison. Without these there is no way we can achieve much more than we are already - solid league finishes and the odd cup run. We might play more entertaining football though under a new manager, which it seems is what a lot of people are craving now.
Stephen Kenny
550   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:09:24

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Henry,

For the record there are loads of games I can point to where we played well. It's when any kind of pressure is there we(he) freezes.

I meant when it really mattered I.e Saturdays game, the FA cup final, Lisbon away, Liege and a host of others where we went out and played like we were frightened.

We almost threw it away against the butcher, bakers and candlestick makers of Kharkiv because of the fear he instills on the big occassions.

That's why I'm not pointing the blame at the players.
Dan McKie
551   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:20:43

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The pressure Moyes is under to start a season well is something he fails at each year. Once there is no chance of Europe he's fine.
Noel Lynam
552   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:16:12

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"Without these there is no way we can achieve much more than we are already - solid league finishes and the odd cup run."

That's where I disagree. With someone less risk averse and whose footballing philosophy is more attack minded, I believe we could achieve, at a minimum, solid league finishes, win the odd cup competition and play more attractive football.

Moyes has many strengths but I believe a fundamental flaw of his is that he lacks the conviction and bravery to take the risks needed to seize opportunities that present themselves, instead remaining cautious and paying the opposition too much respect.
Henry Weindling
559   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:32:38

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Perhaps Noel, I hope you are right. It really does all boil down to money though I feel. Look at the £135m Liverpool have frittered away - all for 8th place in the league. It doesn't matter though, they will be able to do it next season, and the next until they do get it right.

We on the other hand, are light years behind, which is why it's a wonder we are above them in the league and where I feel Moyes deserves credit.

Stephen, I accept your point re: big games. It's hugely disappointing. Theres no guarentees we would even get to these games though under a new manager.
Stephen Kenny
563   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:49:29

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Henry,

Our debate shows the two sides of the risk/reward debate.

I feel there's something to be gained by rolling the dice.

You feel there's something to be lost.
Andy Crooks
564   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:39:54

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Dave Roberts and others. If for one minute I believed that Glenn Hoddle had entrenched negative views of disabled people I would never have made this post. He said his views were misrepresented and has never repeated them.

He was subject to a press witch hunt which was utterly appalling. I don't think that away from football he is the sharpest tool in the box but, frankly, that doesn't concern me. Also, he has no sense of humour? Fuck me if that was the criteria, well how many times has David Moyes had you piss yourself laughing? In fact football is packed with witless, humourless , half wits.

It is pretty easy for those who support Moyes to ask for an alternative and then sneer at any put forward. They want Moyes and will obviously denigrate anyone else.
Steve Sweeney
566   Posted 19/04/2012 at 18:30:17

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In my view this is the Moyes game plan,and I believe he has stated this himself.
We start with a point,if we can grab a goal we have a good chance of 3 points. Not many teams can score two goals against us so if we score ONE goal we should at least get a point.
He sets his teams up not to lose -not to win.
That is his main problem.
Let's us just see in the summer -the Spurs Job- you must be joking,
A manager with a winning mentality would get much more out of our players,with a more attacking mindset would we have lost at home to QPR,Bolton or Stoke.
Would we have drawn against Norwich or Blackburn.
I keep saying it but really after last Saturday's capitulation I am not going to another match whilst either BK or Moyes are at the club.
And by the way, I don't care who takes over from dour Davey as long as he fucks off Round.
James Stewart
570   Posted 19/04/2012 at 19:24:36

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Just wanted to add for those saying people like AVB wouldn't be interested. I'm not so sure that is the case. Moyes is the 12th highest paid manager in the WORLD! A fact that gets often overlooked.

He earns double what managers at clubs like Inter and Juve earn. Quite astonishing when you think about it.
Jeremy Benson
572   Posted 19/04/2012 at 19:39:56

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James, its not about the salary to these top managers. They want guaranteed funds to buy players, no top manager is going to go to everton with no transfer kitty.
Eddy Bernard
576   Posted 19/04/2012 at 19:37:36

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James @570 I agree given the Salary Moyes is on i think there would be loads of interest.

I have always supported Moyes and feel he has done a decent job all things considered, but i honestly beleive it is now time for a change.

No one knows if a new manager will make things better or worse but if the job was advertised i think you would find plenty of candidates.
Jackie Barry
580   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:00:01

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Given that salary what has Moyes actually won? I look at those managers beside him in that list and they are paid to win stuff, what exactly is Moyes paid to do? Bore us to death!
Dan Brierley
581   Posted 19/04/2012 at 19:31:56

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James Stewart, it is not overlooked at all. What you seem to forget, is that the Premiership is the highest grossing football league IN THE WORLD, and pays the highest salaries IN THE WORLD.

You also failed to mention the key point, all the managers that consistently finish above Moyes, surprisingly get paid more than him. You also fail to mention that Mark Hughes and Martin O' Neil get paid the same as Moyes!!

But wait, lets miss out these points, as it doesn't suit your agenda right?
Jackie Barry
584   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:06:04

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Not that I would want him as manager of Everton Oneill has actually won something and his career is far more flattering than Moyes'. As for Hughes well his wage comes along with him considering he was one of the best forwards in Europe during his playing career. Still you have to consider that due to our finanacial restraints we are paying our manager way too much! How about him taking a pay cut if agrees to a new contract, no? Did'nt think so.
Richard Dodd
586   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:02:03

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As at tonight, Everton are the seventh most successful team in the land and that has been achieved with a crap chairman, non-existent board and no money.

The fact that we were once a power in the land has no relevance in today`s world... so, while so many may hanker after former glories, it just has to be realised that the only reason we are 'still in there pitching' is BECAUSE OF DAVID MOYES!
Dan Brierley
587   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:09:02

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Bring in Mourinho and pay him £10 million if you want, he still wont win the league and cups consistently with the players we have got!!

Some people seem to be fucking brain dead on this subject. Moyes is paid as his league positions reflect when compared to other managers in the Premier League. Conspiracy over.

Bring in whatever manager you want guys, but without the right players, managers cannot consistently win things. It's a fact, proven by the entire history of the Premier League. You buy the title, you do not win it with managerial astuteness alone.
Stephen Kenny
588   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:17:01

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The same Mourinho who won the CL(beating Barca along the way) with the exact same squad that see's Inter 6th in Serie A?

One things for sure we'd have won Saturday.
Stephen Kenny
590   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:19:21

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BTW,

Where has anyone suggested or demanded we win the league or cups on a consistent basis?

Most people are looking for a better style of football and a positive attitude in the occassional big game we take part in.
Paul Gladwell
591   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:18:10

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Dan, I don't want to consistently win things just yet, just a derby at Anfield would do or just having a go at the bigger teams for once instead of pathetic shows like that shambles at City this season, honestly was there any need for that shambles that we have all forgotten about, that was worse than the derby, you cannot defend that when it's done on a regular basis over a decade.
We don't want miracles, just some balls now and again .
James Stewart
592   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:19:07

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Not overlooking anything. I agree that O'Neill and Hughes are vastly overpaid. I would include Moyes in that analysis too though. There are some quality managers paid a hell of a lot less than Moyes.

I also do not agree Managers look for transfer funds first and foremost. Salary and Time are just as key as transfer funds. We also have the spine of a good team. Heitinga, Baines, Fellaini, Osman, Jelavic etc.
I think we would be an extremely attractive project for a lot of Managers as they know they would be given a fair crack of the whip.
Paul Gladwell
593   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:24:19

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I mean away from home by the way.
Dan Brierley
594   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:22:19

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Why so sure Stephen? Is this the same Mourinho's Inter that lost to Panathinaikos and drew against Cypriot team Anorthosis (who?).

Mourinho is a top top manager, no doubt about it. But believe it or not he does lose football games.
Stephen Kenny
598   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:32:40

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Of course Dan.

Just not the ones that matter. He's one of the managers who can make a player feel 10 feet tall. Moyes is the opposite IMO, in big games anyway.

The only side you can say have consistently got the better of a Mourinho side are Barca over Madrid. They may be the best side to ever play the game and as things stand he's going to win the league over them.
Dan Brierley
600   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:35:17

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James, lets keep it factual. Moyes salary is proportional to his average league positioning. Not overpaid, or underpaid.
Dan Brierley
601   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:37:36

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Nowt to do with his team Stephen? Purely down to his managerial talents? Last time I looked, Real had the most expensive team EVER assembled.

I would expect him to win the title with that team, as I would any manager.
Paul David
606   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:54:03

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Dan when it to Mourinho I think he is one of the very few managers who virtually guarantees success.The reason he demands and gets money is because he will deliver. Pointless comparing him with Moyes though because their in two totally different situations.
Dan Brierley
608   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:00:35

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Paul, I am not comparing him to Moyes, he is a far better manager than Moyes will probably ever be. My question is, would he win the Premiership or CL with the current talent, and numbers in our squad, and a 2 million yearly net spend within 10 years?
Phil Martin
610   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:04:45

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Has anyone just witnesssed Billy's BAFTA worthy performance on Coronation St?

Fuck me is there anything he isn't shit at?
Paul David
611   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:06:27

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Oh no, I was trying to compare the two, Dan. Iif we did have him though I would not be surprised for us to be in the top 4 in a couple of years.
Ray Jacques
612   Posted 19/04/2012 at 20:34:40

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Stephen 590.

You've hit the nail on the head for me.

I just want to watch a more attractive style of football and when the chance arises in the cups every couple of years (as it does and will) support a team that gives you the feeling that they have had a real go at it.

I think we have some quality players but often come out of the match frustrated by the system, style, predictability and pace of our play.

Couldn't give a damn if we finish 7th or 10th (forget the Sky money for position). League position will be forgotten in 2 seasons.

Big wow if we finish above Liverpool this season, are we really bothered about that after Saturday. If anyone is then how sad for them.

Would you sooner us finish 7th with our drab style or finish 10th and be entertained.

All the posts stating , oh we may get relegated if it wasnt for Moyes share his negative attitude and are afraid to take a chance or gamble.

I think he's done a fine job at Goodison with what he has been given and from the baseline he started at, however, I think we are now stale and this is reflected in the style of play and our predictability.

Also if Moyes left at the end of this season for a 'bigger' (sorry) club then it would probably be with the best wishes of the majority.

However, if he stays next season and we make the usual slow start then the crowd will surely turn on him en masse and we may find ourselves in a right mess.

Pure conjecture, but not outside the realms of possibility considering our usual pattern.

Therefore I hope he is offered a new position in the summer and we can then debate who the new manager should be, hopefully get him appointed and get some urgency and variety into our team.
Paul David
616   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:11:23

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Well put Ray
Ray Jacques
624   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:16:05

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Re the debate over Mourinho and Moyes and their respective abilities.

Lewis Hamilton would never be World Champion if he was driving a car that is regularly at the back of the grid. However i bet he could get the car to lap quicker than it's usual driver by maybe half a second a lap by his ability to set the car up to go quicker using his technical knowledge, by making the correct decisions regarding tyre choice etc, by galvanizing his team and by his natural ability to drive.

As a result of this, the best drivers find themselves in the best cars at the front.

Similarly, the best managers end up at the top teams.
Using this logic (maybe flawed) as he has been at numerous top teams then Mourinho would improve Everton using the same players we currently have!!!!
Dan Brierley
626   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:22:13

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Ray, we have been to Wembley 3 times in the last few years, more times than any other manager I have seen quoted above us. I don't follow your 'have a go' comment. I saw us demolish Sunderland at the Stadium of Light, against a manager 'paid the same as Moyes'. I saw a Moyes team beat Liverpool, Spurs, United in the FA Cup in recent years. Don't have a go? Or are you choosing selective matches where we have not won?
Paul David
628   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:30:34

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To be fair Dan there is bound to be examples of Moyes having a go because he has been here so long but it is not the norm.
Dan Brierley
634   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:37:22

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Fair point Paul. So I let you have your say, what is the norm for a team with the 6th highest paid manager in the league, one of the smallest squads, with a mid table transfer budget?
Ray Jacques
635   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:31:34

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Dan, point taken but...

Are you not being selective also??

On our three Wembley appearances we have been poor.

Man Utd semi: we beat their reserves on pens after two hours of mind-blowingly dull football (they had a Champions League semi to play a couple of days later).

Chelsea: they were just too good for us and I don't see what we could have done about that on the day

Liverpool: can't even talk about it.

I would love to have the feeling similar to after the Spurs semi in 95 when you just thought wow, where did that come from???

Even when we win, it's as if we just scrape through. We never put teams to the sword and that's what I mean by having a go.

I am not advocating the players don't give it their all, I just have the opinion they are somewhat restrained by our tactics.
Dan Brierley
636   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:47:15

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Thats the key question Ray. Are they really restrained by the tactics, or by their collective ability? Which of the players that we have, would get into the top sides? I think the glass ceiling is not due to tactics, but more down to personnel available.

Expansive attacking tactics require the players with the ability to execute the tactics, without getting caught out at the back all the time. I saw Spurs really have a go at chelsea when they went behind in the other semi, and ended up getting walloped 5-1. Would Moyes ever do that? No, never. He plays percentage football, as he knows the limitations of his side. He knows what the players are capable of, and where the weaknesses are. Give him a side capable of playing attacking football (i.e. since January), and suddenly we improve. I don' see it as a coincidence.
Paul David
637   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:51:53

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Well Dan, the norm is to achieve at least respectable league finish, maybe beat one of the top 4 once a season... but in the process bore the arse off everyone, have 6 defenders on the pitch, 4 players out of position, 1 striker no matter who we play. No Plan B, take 20 mins from deciding to make a sub and actually doing it... I could go on but I am getting wound up just thinking about it.
Dan Brierley
639   Posted 19/04/2012 at 21:59:11

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Fair enough Paul. Could have sworn I have seen Moyes finish respectably in the league a few times, and beating City, Chelsea and Spurs recently.

Paul David
642   Posted 19/04/2012 at 22:07:36

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Dan I did say at least,meaning we always have decent league finishes and to honest I think people are to quick to bring up them games.

Spurs battered us and we was lucky.Chelsea and City were hard thought wins with little quality and both teams played as bad as any top side i've seen at Goodison in 20 years,if either had shown any form I would have expected them to beat us with ease.
Ray Jacques
643   Posted 19/04/2012 at 22:02:24

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If we are capable of being upper mid table then the players must have the ability to play attractive football on a more consistent basis than what we observe.

Home games such as Blackburn, QPR, Stoke, Norwich this season come to mind when we didn't attack from the first minute against sides we should be beating at home. (Bolton was a freak as a result of the windy weather.)

Or against a top side, look at the home game against Man Utd this season when they were coming off the back of a beating by City. We came out at the start and sat back. Not because they were good on the day but because we were frightened.

I have said I feel Moyes has done a fine job over the years, I just think it's all gotten stale and predictable.

It has become as an amusing aside at the game these days in our little corner of the ground that when we get a corner, we bring all ten outfield players back into our box, hence if we clear the ball it comes straight back and we are trapped on the edge of the box. At home against the lower teams, leave two on the halfway line and let them worry about us!! This is just a little example of what I am trying to say.
Dan Brierley
646   Posted 19/04/2012 at 22:19:02

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Ray, what I have seen become stale, is our forward line. Haven't seen a decent striker since Yakubu's first season. I see us improving with Jelavic and hopefully the addition of an attacking midfielder this summer, when a centre half (probably Heitinga) leaves.

Things were stale at the start of the season, no doubt about that. But Moyes transfer dealings seem far from stale. This is his strongest point, and Jelavic seems to re-affirm this. If we had Jelavic at the start of the season, where do you think we would be now?
Danny James
652   Posted 19/04/2012 at 22:25:45

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The problem we have is we can't afford to take on a manager and have to replace them after a season or two because results aren't going right.

Whoever comes in can't get it wrong as we don't have money to waste on bad signings. We can't get a new manager, give them £50M to spend, sack them because they sign a load of shite, then replace them with a new manager and give them £50M to spend putting it right

The reason why I appreciate Moyes is he buys wisely. Sure, there is a Bily and a Krĝldrup but, even if you look at his gross spend (rather than the net spend which Moyes supporters are at pains to point out), the players that he has brought to the club make him astute and an effective transfer wheeler-dealer.

We have less money than most of the other clubs in the Premier League. In the wrong hands, we could easily find ourselves in a situation that we can't get out of.

Before Moyes arrived, we were starting to find ourselves in that situation. Without him, finishing in the top 8 and complaining about dull football might seem something to aspire to and not be taken for granted.
Paul David
653   Posted 19/04/2012 at 23:04:45

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Danny you make a very good point but the kind of manager we would attract will know the situation we're in and knows he will be taking on the job with little money.They will want the job because its a step up from the Norwich's,Swansea's ect.
Danny James
658   Posted 19/04/2012 at 23:15:56

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But then arent we looking for a manager that would approach the job cautiously?
Paul David
660   Posted 19/04/2012 at 23:25:57

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Not sure I understand your question Danny
Danny James
664   Posted 19/04/2012 at 23:33:32

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I mean wouldn't the new manager, aware of the constraints, approach everything with maybe too much caution, like Moyes is criticised for being too cautious.

Martinez & Rodgers have a bit more freedom in that they have 17 places to aim at in the Premier League to be a success and even if they don't achieve that and get relegated they wouldn't necessarily lose their jobs. There is almost more freedom to just go out and have a go

Whoever takes over Everton knows they have about 7 or 8 places to aim at in the Premier League, that's all. There is far more restriction.
Paul David
666   Posted 19/04/2012 at 23:49:12

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I see your point,so whoever takes the job would end up shitting them like Moyes and be scared of failure.I am not to sure about that.I think it says more about Moyes's attitude rather than the pressures of the job.
Danny James
668   Posted 19/04/2012 at 23:55:23

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The way I see it is people like Holloway and Rodgers have this purist philosophy: even when Blackpool were on the verge of going out, he wouldn't change and Blackpool went down. The same thing will happen with Swansea next season, I think. We can't afford to be that adventurous with the precarious nature of our club's situation.

If we were to appoint a new manager, I would favour Lambert. He was a clever player, a Champions League winner. As a manager, he looks like taking Norwich higher than Swansea and Blackpool in their first season in the Premier League. He favours a less attractive style than Martinez, Holloway and Rodgers but his team since better equipped.

I think he is like a Younger Moyes, a solid if not spectacular manager. He has one advantage over Moyes in that he has the hunger. He hasn't been shafted by the restraints placed on Moyes by our beloved board.
James Flynn
670   Posted 20/04/2012 at 00:15:16

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164 posts and counting and only Richard Jones (397) addressed our problem, "Until we terminate the cancer in our club which is Kenwright, changing anything else ? Moyes, the stadium or anything else for that matter ? is futile, they are smokescreens surrounding the real problem".

Keep Moyes (I'm one who'd prefer it) or let in any manager you like. They come and go. Richard hit the nail on the head.

Kenwright OUT!
Paul Holmes
673   Posted 20/04/2012 at 00:19:57

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Newcastle took a chance on Pardew and look at them after only one season! Why can't Everton do the same and take a chance as it has got to be better than 3 derby wins in nearly 10 years with Moyes in charge... Or 6 in 20 if he's still here, FFS!!! Move him on so we get a manager who knows what a derby means to the fans (ie, won't rest 5 players).
Jason Lam
678   Posted 20/04/2012 at 02:52:45

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You could give Moyes Romario, Maradona, Cruyff (in their prime) and he'll send them all home because of disciplinary reasons.

You could give Moyes 100M quid and he'll serve the same shite every week, every season.

A child before 3 yrs you can still hope to change his perspective of life, his behaviour, his outlook for the better. He's close to 50. He will NOT change.

He's had 10 seasons. I can see that he will never change his style, mentality and approach to football.

He organizes his cozy patio in 4-5-1 and sit backs to enjoy his cuppa with his readies.

If I can't trust him with the pitiful transfer chest, how can I trust him with even more? It is the actions with what his has now that define the man's mentality, not 'what if he had millions'. If you don't understand this principle you have not lived LIFE. Excuses are for cowards.

I've had enough.

David Moyes will you please get out of my club.
Matt Woods
681   Posted 20/04/2012 at 03:50:02

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David Moyes is a dick-teasing twat. He beats the Swans, the Mackems twice and plays open attacking football at Carrow Rd, the ground were we last secured the title. The fucking coward allows us to BELIEVE, to seriously believe we are finally going to get our revenge for years of heartache.

People have been making comparisons between Moyes and Dalglish.... you are fucking joking. They should not be mentioned in the same breath. One was one of the finest British talents ever to play the game and is a proven WINNER. David Moyes also comes from Glasgow, and has never won a raffle.

Let's be straight: Liverpool are fucking average. They were there for the taking. We all knew it. They knew it. If we turned up, were brave, and took the game to them, there was every reason to believe we would make the final. As it transpired, they were shite... and we were worse, but they at least tried and wanted it.

Please, David Moyes, leave us alone... you simply don't understand... you can't draw an FA Cup Semi-Final.
James Stewart
760   Posted 20/04/2012 at 12:01:09

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Believe what ever you like Dan. Moyes is overpaid. The mugs who paid Hughes and O'neill the same amount doesn't make it any different. If Moyes were sacked he would probably get overpaid to do the same job somewhere else but there is no way a top club with put up with him. Hence why he hasn't had a serious offer in a decade.

Moyes guarantees premiership football and for that alone Blue bill will pay him whatever he wants. The very picture of complacency.
James Cadwaladr
785   Posted 20/04/2012 at 13:01:26

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If Moyes was to leave now and I was given the task of replacing my initial shortlist to consider would be

Bilic
Di Matteo (unless he gets Chelsea.
Lambert
Martinez
Lee Clarke
McDermott

Sadly I have a feeling the next manager of Everton FC will be Alan Stubbs.
Paul David
787   Posted 20/04/2012 at 13:06:36

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Stubbs?At least your not suggesting Neville like some people think he will.I hate the fact he is captain never mind manager
Tony J Williams
848   Posted 20/04/2012 at 16:23:24

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"The way I see it is people like Holloway and Rodgers have this purist philosophy: even when Blackpool were on the verge of going out, he wouldn't change and Blackpool went down" - That's what Moyes gets lambasted for too, doing the same thing.

Wigan have almost been relegated several times now but nothings changed has it?
Andy Crooks
953   Posted 20/04/2012 at 20:22:44

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Holloway, Martinez, Lambert and Rodgers have lesser squads than David Moyes. I would't particularly want Martinez as manager but I wonder how he would have done with Everton's first choice back four with Fellaini in front of it.

Conjecture, of course, but I think there's a good chance he'd have done pretty well.
Paul Holmes
016   Posted 21/04/2012 at 01:22:32

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This is why we CAN'T GET RID OF MOYES! Too many posters think he is doing a decent job, keeps us in the top half of the league, not much money to spend etc.. etc..

He's on 65,000 a week (in the top 10 highest paid managers IN THE WORLD ? £3 million a year!!!) There are better managers out there, believe me, we just need CHANGE to find out!
Mick Davies
020   Posted 21/04/2012 at 01:44:08

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Our shite season was showing signs of belated improvement (again... zzzz) and then our sagacious Messiah turned his own philosophy on its head and chose the cup over the league by destroying a winning side and giving the rednoses a morale boost that they never expected, during their worst run since 1953.

So what did we gain from this ridiculous folly? A day out in London which ended in another humiliation at the hands of the club we least want that from. Moyes is and always will be a second-rate surrender monkey and the sooner we get a boss with balls, the sooner we can start getting this great club back where it belongs. Nil Satisfaction Nli Optimism

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