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KITAP4! ? Now that I like...

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What a difference a week makes. There is nothing intrinsicly wrong with Keeping it Tight (KIT) ? Fergie will be berating his players for not KIT.

The trick is how you approach the other bit of it, how you get your 1 or 4. You can fluke 1 or 2 and Fergie might say we had 4 flukes, but hand on heart it's pretty hard to fluke 4... you've got to buy the tickets to win the raffle.

When Moyes gets it right, especially the initial team selection and then subs (Hibbo vs City) the more Moyes inclined (MMI) then berate the less Moyes inclined (LMI)... and the reverse happens when circumstances change, as they did on Sunday. It's an interchangeable batton to whack each other with.

The MMI seem happy with the status quo of KITAP1... swings and roundabouts, 7th or whatever 50-something points and wonder "Why all the fuss, why change?"

The LMI are driven crazy by the odd glimpse of how good it could be, the inconsistantcy, mostly thought to be self-inflicted and think "Why can't the bugger(s) do it, or at least set out to do it, EVERY week???"

So, Dave Wilson not withstanding, it's still no good to, of your own choosing, sitback at 1-0 and try and play rope a dope; again WE have to be lucky ALL the time, they just need the odd mistake.

While United are most times a better team than Liverpool, they are not the force they were 3 or 4 yrs ago. But the two games just gone are still pretty much for comparison terms Apples vs Apples.

So why the two vastly different performances; is it "Shit happens" vs "We had a good day at the office"?

Is it "Can't" or "Won't"?

Will the Real David Moyes STAY STOOD UP.

And put one of those fingers on each hand UP.

And be proud to be outta your mind and outta control.

And one more time, loud as you can, how does it go?

"Cause I'M THE REAL DAVY, yes I'M THE REAL DAVY!!!"

And maybe the real Davy will STAY stood up. (For more than one or two games...)

Derek Thomas, Brisbane     Posted 23/04/2012 at 02:12:15

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James Martin
850   Posted 23/04/2012 at 15:04:04

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Perhaps it is just because we are twice the team when Pienaar plays.

Maybe it's also because Man U and Liverpool couldn't be more different. Man U let you play football, they're normally better than you so will outscore you but players like Scholes and Carrick give you room to play.

Liverpool don't; they run all over teams and suffocate them to death. Suarez aside, everyone of their team are 6 foot, fast, and built like machines. Why else do talented players like Maxi and Bellamy only get cameos?

I worry whenever they play big teams because teams like Man U and Arsenal try and play with the ball and Liverpool just smash them off it and go on the counter. We didn't have the pace or power to compete with them on Saturday and with Pienaar out and Arteta no longer on the books we don't have the guile to negate this.

We could never beat the Chelsea of old for this same reason and only beat them this season because they played more expansively, allowing us to play a bit more. It's a clash of styles.

Liverpool get undone by it when playing lesser teams who just get men behind the ball and boot it long (and don't pass back), then they can't break them down. We're much better at that but then suffer against teams like Liverpool. In an ideal world, you need a team like the Arsenal of old who combined power with flair.
Matt Traynor
881   Posted 23/04/2012 at 16:51:37

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Despite Taggart's dissing of our performance by stating they scored 4 great goals, their defence gave us 4, it was actually a much better performance than that, as anyone who watched it would appreciate.

For me the moment of the match was when it went from being 5-2 (and game over) to 4-3 (and game on) in the space of 30 seconds. Evra contrives to dive and head against the post, and, having seen us waste 2-3 chances to clear the ball when Welbeck scored, I watched agog as we played the ball out from the back, up to their end, and not a Utd player touched the ball until Fellaini was challenged and the ball broke for Jelavic to slot for 4-3.

For me that was when the players believed they could get something, and Utd started to doubt themselves.
Jamie Barlow
883   Posted 23/04/2012 at 17:11:01

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24 passes from Evra hitting the post to our 3rd goal i believe Matt.
Mike Allison
926   Posted 23/04/2012 at 19:31:52

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Matt, as my Dad pointed out, Taggart didn't get where he is today being even-handed and fair-minded...
Eric Myles
012   Posted 24/04/2012 at 02:31:33

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James #850, we played well away at Sunderland in the Cup without Pienaar.

That game probably gave a lot of fans a really good feeling about going to Wembley only to be let down badly by the tortoise going back into his shell.
We don't do the backs to the wall defending as well as we did a couple of seasons ago, instead we always seem to make mistakes or get beaten by deflections in a crowded box. Yet against Sunderland and United we have shown what can be achieved with the exact same players.
Peter Barry
014   Posted 24/04/2012 at 03:29:16

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Confused much!!!! - James Martin reasons that Liverpool just OUT MUSCLED us because all their players are 6' ters then suggests that the SOLUTION would have been 5' nothing Pienaar.
Dick Fearon
019   Posted 24/04/2012 at 05:04:52

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No problem with KIT when you have a two goal cushion.
It is a problem when KIT is your aim before a ball is kicked.
Derek Thomas
021   Posted 24/04/2012 at 05:17:10

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Dick;1) Even 2-0 is not a proper cushion, after all Untd were 2 goals ahead twice. It's about momentum and confidence, we had the first ( God knows where we got it from, it wasn't from the dugout ) and Untd lost the second. I can still taste the bitterness of being 2-0 up in '67 Vs Forest, sitting back and losing 3-2; 0-0 Vs city in '68 and trying to run down the clock for the last 15mins and losing 1-0. It's Old and Cliched ( a bit like us ) Attack is the best form of Defence.

All in all even if you DO approach the game in the right manner, it can still bite you in the bum. Untd so nearly made it 5-2 but hit the post and we, without a untd player getting a proper touch on the ball, went down the other end and scored, 4-3 and it's untd brown trouser time.

2) Re A League Final, Perth were robbed penalty-wise. My 1st reaction was ( watching on tv )penalty, but on a closer look...Dive ! That the trouble, on a closer look which the reff didn't have. You see it every week in the AFL, reff draws a box in the air 2mins later ( max) it's all sorted, they wasted 2 mins protesting. But in all honesty with 10 men and 6 yellow cards you would've run out of players by the end of extra time.
Kase Chow
032   Posted 24/04/2012 at 08:43:41

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A great manager is an adaptive manager

'Keep it tight' (KIT) is a valid and reasonable manner to approach SOME games

'Going for it' (GFI) is a better formula for other matches

The great manager alters his approach for different games and will often play 2 up front (or even 3) as and when the situation dictates

Anyone that says Moyes is a bad manager is an idiot. Anyone that thinks he's a great manager cannot see what might have been.

Moyes is a very good manager, make no mistake about that. But he is NOT a great manager. He is not flexible enough nor adaptive enough. He has one default outlook and that is invariably we are underdogs and invariably we need to Keep it Tight

I hope he can become a GREAT manager by more readily altering his approach to matches and build a superiority complex against those over the park.

They may have spent more but we are better than them. We should be proving it
Dick Fearon
089   Posted 24/04/2012 at 13:41:38

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Derek #021,

Now living in West Oz I cannot describe the locals anger over that non penalty. I would not though call it a dive. The Brisbane striker swung a foot at the ball missed it by several feet and his momentum spun him off balance.

The Australian authorities should hang their collective heads in shame for picking a home town ref with a missus works as a publicist for Brisbane FC.

The farce continued before a 55,000 crowd and millions of viewers when MotM was presented to the wrong player. Honestly, you couldn't make it up.
Stephen Kenny
205   Posted 24/04/2012 at 21:19:32

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Derek,

I always had you down as an older fella. I weren't expecting you to be quoting Eminem lyrics on TW.

Boss post.
Peter Mills
224   Posted 24/04/2012 at 22:26:46

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Derek 021, I'm sorry to be pedantic, and I stand to be corrected, but I think at Forest in 1967 we were 1-0 up, then 2-1 down, equalised to 2-2 then lost 3-2. It was still a grim day, although I did have an unknown horse named Foinavon in the Grand National sweep on the coach! So I'm old as well, but I still like Marshall Mathers!
Derek Thomas
226   Posted 24/04/2012 at 22:38:22

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Ah the frailty of memory, I can't remember what I had for my tea last week, so I hold my hands up to that, never the less, as I'm sure many ( though not all ) will agree, the principle of the don't sit back point remains as valid now as it was then.

Marshall Mathers...yo bitch It would be like signing a new player * gobs on Kenwright's onion rings *
Peter Mills
232   Posted 24/04/2012 at 22:49:16

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Derek, Fair comment about sitting back on a slender lead, I agree.
And never mind Eminem. What about Essiness? Sandie Shaw won the Eurovision Song Contest that very night in 1967, I remember sitting through it after getting back from Nottingham.
Going to bed now, I need my rest!

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