Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Fan vs Customer

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As a reasonably active member on this site, I've definitely noticed a swing in mood towards our board and ownership. As someone who has questioned (and posted those questions here) the commitment and ambitions of various board members for over 5 years now, I feel quite strongly about this topic. But being realistic ? what can one man do against a Board of millionaires, who hold all the cards?

Well, the only thing I can do is stop buying tickets and merchandising. And with a heavy heart that is what I've done. My season ticket was not renewed and, after receiving another plea from EFC "not to miss out on an exciting season ahead", I feel I've made the right choice. My annual parting of 42 for a new shirt has also been postponed.

Bottom line is ? until I know exactly where my money is going ? I don't want them to have it. It sure as hell isn't going on new players or stadium redevelopment or in fact anything boosting the long term future of EFC.

I absolutely still feel passionately about the club (and always will). And I know some will say 'how can you turn your back?' or 'get behind the players and stop whingeing'.

But, as one man who's totally fed up with the whole thing, I think I'm better off out.

I look forward to the day when our owners (whoever that maybe) present a sound and viable business plan tackling all the pertinent issues surrounding EFC. But until then, it's hypocritical of me to rant and rave, then hand over 100s of my hard earned cash.

As a fan of 30 years (and 3rd generation Blue), I'll be a lifetime supporter until the day I die. But as a customer, I reserve the right to take my money elsewhere.

Phil Martin, Merseyside     Posted 22/07/2011 at 11:45:48

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Al Reddish
1   Posted 22/07/2011 at 14:26:45

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They sure don't get the customer thing right. My son sent off for the new home kit and paid 6 extra to have it delivered on the day of release............he is still waiting!!!!
He did however get a phone call from Everton apologising for the delay, explaining they can't get their printing machine to work!
Paul Gladwell
2   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:00:47

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I personally think hitting the club in the pocket does more damage than good, but I suppose somewhere something has to be done to show these clowns that what they are doing is failing.
When we have the yes man Elstone blaming the decilne in season tickets on the economic factor then its going to take a lot more to break them.
As for the swing on this site Phil, its always been here with certain lads knowing what we have as leaders, but now even the likes of Doddy is having a little go now and again.
We can handle being skint, what we cannot handle is silence and lies whilst waiting for some derby victory or cup victory before the coward comes out bleating how good our manager is.
I admire you stance it is hard to find any enjoyment going the games and I need a good few pints beforehand these days, but with a bit of luck the likes of you will be back soon.
Gavin Ramejkis
3   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:20:07

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A very fair point Phil and one you have every right to make.
Danny Broderick
4   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:20:30

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Join the People's group. There are over 3,000 on facebook alone now, I am guessing there is a similar number on twitter now. So, even though some people will have joined both, it seems we have around 5,000 fans in a group who are trying to bring our board to task. If the momentum continues, we will soon have over 10,000 maybe, and that is a big collective voice. 1 man on his own can't do much, but a big group like that can make their voice heard.
Dan McKie
5   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:26:58

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I agree with the Op, but I love going to watch Everton play football. The fact that I hate what is going on (or not) behind the scenes doesn't change that. Whilst I'm not sure I believe that there is millions of pounds surplus that is going to the board. I also can't get my head around them keeping hold of their shares in Everton if they are making nothing? What would be the point in running something pretty much 7 days a week for nothing?
Dan McKie
6   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:32:13

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That should have been OP, not OS.
Norman Merrill
7   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:30:31

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Phil, I take my hat off to you, at least you had the balls to do what I have been thinking about, for some time.

I renewed my season ticket, after much deliberation, swayed by my love for the club. I have been watching the Blues since the 1950s, and its a hard habit to break. But, with this board, and the man at the helm, showing NO real interest, then things must change... and if they don't, then I will.

I cannot see any improvement in the offing and David Moyes will have to juggle with what he has got; injuries as usual will have a big say.

Martin Handley
8   Posted 22/07/2011 at 15:45:51

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I have said for a long time now that I fear this great club of ours is heading for financial ruin for some time and that we are not too far away from doomsday, only for Mr Kenrick to royally slag me off! This is not based on any insider trading/knowledge but my own himble opinion.

We cannot sustain the increase in wages each year either improved contracts or new players coming in; despite the "everything is fine" statements coming out of the club, we the fans know our finances are rapidly spiraling out of control because we do not have the commercial activity or fan base to sustain it.

God knows the banks and so called benefactors are not willing to loan any more money to us and it's obvious we're struggling to pay our debts at the minute. I suspect season ticket sales are well down on our normal 25,000 a) because of the depression and b) the shite football being served up 70% of the time.

We obviously are a selling club as selling our best assests is the only extra form of revenue we have. We all know the fault lies with the board but I feel that they are prepared to go down with the ship rather sell it just so they can brag about owning a Prem club.

I hope that somebody can see a chink of light at the end of the tunnel but at this point in time I can't.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
9   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:18:40

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Ah Martin... it's your cannie way of stating things as true when there is nothing but speculation and supposition behind them. Take this one for example:

"We the fans know our finances are rapidly spiraling out of control..."

Do we really? If that was true, we would surely be days away from Administration! Yet the case can be made (and supported with what passes for facts!) that the frugal fiscal management of the club means the finances are definitely NOT rapidly spiraling out of control, as you state.

The truth is that the finances are at a far lower level than we the fans would like; that is not the same as saying they are rapidly spiraling out of control.
Paul Gladwell
10   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:27:45

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To be honest I dread what will happen if the team has a bad start, although it also could really take it to another level for Billybull, to the point he will have no option but to find the highest bidder at a very low price.

I received an email from the lads at Evertonians for Change who where meeting with The People's Group today to speed things up, so it will be interesting to see what the next steps are in pumping up the pressure.

Dan Brierley
11   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:20:05

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The part I don't understand, is why there is a belief that not going to the match is good for the future of our club. Organising protests while still keeping your club alive by going to the seems the best way of doing it. Just as the United fans use the green and yellow scarves. Protest while at the match, let the TV cameras see your plight. But by staying away, you are only making the financial situation worse for the club's future, and making us less attractive for any potential new buyer.

If everyone decided to not renew their tickets, sure there would be a change in board mangement. Administrators would take over the club and asset strip in order to pay the creditors. I guess we have to be thankful that the majority of fans realise this reality.....
Al Reddish
12   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:39:51

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Maybe we should wear salmon pink and royal blue scarves!?
David O'Keefe
13   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:37:11

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Martin: Its not all doom and gloom, the clubs board will find a way to rebuild; they know how to survive. They've just run out of other assets to sell/mortgage, so it's player sales that will keep the administrators away.

Think terminal illness, instead of a Mr Creosote disaster when considering Everton's finances in future.
David O'Keefe
14   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:52:08

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Plenty of valid points there Dan, but I haven't renewed because I refuse to fund failure and contempt.

Kunal Desai
15   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:54:09

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Good on you Phil. Unfortunately many still don't think like you and are still very pro Kenwright and think him and his board are doing a wonderful job. The current situation will not improve any time in the near future in my opinion, but will be interesting to see is how many of those renew season tickets this time next year and the year after, when no further signings are made. How long will this malaise really test the regular match day goers' patience?
Dan Brierley
16   Posted 22/07/2011 at 17:08:23

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But by not funding, are you not adding to the failure? How is administration and asset stripping going to help?
Phil Martin
17   Posted 22/07/2011 at 16:49:54

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Yep, I've already joined the People's Group on FB and I hope to see the group grow.

Not going the games won't be easy and I'm not doing this simply because I dont like being in GP on a matchday. But for too long I've handed over my money without a care as to where exactly where it ends up.

A far more theatrical and potentially attention grabbing form of protest would be to do the United/Scarf thing.
It isn't an EFC type of thing to do but how would Billy and co ignore 30,000 Salmon Pink/Royal Blue waving scarves (or perhaps Black and White colours after the original "Blackwatch" Everton team?).
David O'Keefe
18   Posted 22/07/2011 at 17:34:31

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Dan: Re asset stripping= whats left?

I don't want administration, but regrettably I see the only form of protest that will make a difference is by withdrawing my custom.

As to the failure, I don't run the club so thats a non-sequiter. I'm not helping the balance sheet, but neither did I propose a move to Kirkby or knock down a wall to build a complex on land I didn't own.

Peter Laing
19   Posted 22/07/2011 at 17:29:34

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Malaise is the operative word Kunal, I have decided not to renew my season ticket based upon this exact feeling. To prevent collective malaise, you need to keep thing's fresh; we haven't signed a player of note for 2 years, the ground is outdated and for large portions of last season I spent many a game wishing to be somewhere else.

I still support the Club, my two kids are blues but to be honest when you read the shite spouted by Ian Ross and the CEO Robert Elstone, as a fan, I feel that I am being treated with contempt.

Kunal Desai
20   Posted 22/07/2011 at 17:41:10

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100% agree Peter. The club are not giving anything back to the paying customer. My view is you buy into something which is value for money, any product and any service. Everton is not value for money.

As for Ross and Elstone, they are nothing more than glorified secretaries. They are most likely contractually obliged to make certain statements the club wants them to make. They're 'yes' men all day long. Any different and they'd be out on their ear and without a job.
Steve Sweeney
21   Posted 22/07/2011 at 18:30:45

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Ah! Good for you, Phil and David, and I am sure there will be a few more. This Board of Directors have got to be forced out.

I posted here last April and was slated for daring to encourage folks not to renew season tickets. They are all in it together, did not Moyes make a statement that he would be sitting down with Billy Liar to thrash out his transfer budget and that money must be made available to sign players early?

Pressure must be kept up; phone the local radio stations and let them know that, while you are a true blue, contrary to media gratification, we are not happy with Bullshit Billy's regime and a top ten finish is just not good enough for Everton. We should be winning titles.

Remind them of his failings, the biggest has got to be the Kings Dock. Remind them that he split the fans with the utter shite that came out of the club to encourage the Kirkby Project. Supposedly we had 78m for that ? where is it??

I called Alan Jackson on Monday and he promised he would arrange a fans phone in to discuss the boards record. I for one will not let him forget that and plan to call every night until he sets a date.

Trevor Mackie
22   Posted 22/07/2011 at 18:26:06

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This thing about "Evertonians don't protest" ? we do! Those old enough to recall the 70s remember flying cushions and stay-away fans.

The comparison with the RS is spurious as they had "foreigners" taking the piss, a clear unifying identifiable target.

We have "one of our own" who is "doing his best" against the odds, it's the same mentality that allowed Dalglish back across the park.

It's a sentimental delusion that warms the hearts of both sets of fans.

If we have the same start as last season, there's "The People's Group" to focus the attention this time.

People will demonstrate ? when the delusion is exposed.
Chris Butler
23   Posted 22/07/2011 at 19:07:50

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I'm sorry but I think we're to blame. With the exception of a few "We're not going to Kirkby" chants I've never heard Everton fans protest about much. We're in a crisis, we have a clueless manager and a clueless board. I think we should protest but nobody seems willing to organise it.

I think we will be relegated next season. Never has there been so much pessmism on this site, which says quite a lot. Kenwright is just one of the many morons who work for Everton who have no clue about business, it's not fair to just blame him.

Richard Dodd
24   Posted 22/07/2011 at 21:36:32

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Moan, moan. bloody moan ? and the team aren`t even playing! It`s as though we were West Ham or Brum, had been relegated, and were selling all our players.

No, we ain`t going to win the Prem any time soon but last time I saw a league table there were THIRTEEN teams below us.

Where has the money gone? ? asks the writer. Simple, that one. Most of into the players` pockets ? and you want more of them so they, too, can fill their boots at our expense.

Why, oh why, do so many Evertonians fill their days with hate and loathing ? most of it aimed at the very people who have kept our club at the top end of the pile? Weird lot, these Bluse fans!

Martin Handley
25   Posted 22/07/2011 at 22:04:45

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Michael, I'm stating it as a true fact, I have always said it's just my opinion. So please read my post properly. But I'm damn sure there are a lot of other people who fear the same things I do.

But then my mind drifts back to the winter of discontent '83 9500 fans at the most insipid display in memory, then we went to Oxford Kevin Brock's back etc and we never looked back, if only Mr Brock wasn't in the retirement home for old players, the sun always shone, a pint was 50p.

So maybe, just maybe, fate will show her good side once more?

And we're live on ESPN tomorrow!

Rob Hollis
26   Posted 22/07/2011 at 22:17:55

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The finances of most of the Prem are a shambles and the sooner they all go into administration and we get back to real clubs paying realistic wages the better. The whole shambles is almost as sickening as the banks.

Having said that I can't stop going.
Nelly Verdonghan
27   Posted 23/07/2011 at 09:16:19

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Well said Phil...I have done exactly the same thing myself. I stopped my season ticket before the begining of last season and I won't be going back until these incompetant fucks have been ousted and replaced by a Board of Directors that can run the business properly. After many many years of following them home & away week in, week out I'd just had enough of the same old shite every summer and january....not to mention that you can't get a piece of EFC merchandise anywhere else but at the Club shop (or KITBAG) whilst every other team's shirt is on sale EVERYWHERE you go...

I LOVE EVERTON FC and will do so till the day I die and it kills me to se us being left behind not just by the top sides but by the likes of Stoke and Sunderland etc it's a disgrace.... KENWRONG and his cronies will be the DEATH of this club make no mistake but people like Richard Dodd seem to think that is acceptable...well not to me it's not. !!

Finally I know we're not meant to be disrespectful to other postes but I've held this inside for a long long time...

RICHARD DODD YOU ARE A BUFFON !!
Nelly Verdonghan
28   Posted 23/07/2011 at 09:37:46

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some am I cos of my typo (haha)...again apologies in advance..

IMO...RICHARD DODD YOU ARE A BUFFOON !!
Richard Dodd
29   Posted 23/07/2011 at 10:28:17

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Definitions :
Slag off everything to do with EFC =Loyal supporter.
Support the Club through thick and thin =Buffon (sic)
Says it all I think!
Anthony Hughes
30   Posted 23/07/2011 at 10:51:20

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Richard,

We all support our club, through thick and thin. What we don't support is our useless, lying, bullshitting board and its main protagonist the one and only Billy Bullshitter. Any decent league positions we've had are in spite of the board not because of them. Transfer window after transfer window without strengthening the team or squad may well see us with relegation problems.
Nelly Verdonghan
31   Posted 23/07/2011 at 10:48:45

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Richard deny it all you like... but this club IS NOT in a healthy position and KENWRONG has made so many false promises it is untrue.( I don't really need to list them all do i ? )

Just because people are critical of his many failed projects doesn't mean they don't support the club.

You can see no wrong in the man when ALL of his misgivings are there for EVERYONE to see....WE can't even sign ONE player of note this summer...frees and loans (basically players who other clubs JUST DON'T WANT..) is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH

Now he surpasses himself with the crap he came out with yesterday about the squad not needing any additional players becasuse in its present state it's good enough to achive things....Well it HASN'T achieved anything in the past so why would we believe this season will be any different...

"It's a great squad that all Evertonians were saying this year is our year last season...."

Well Bill it QUITE CLEARLY WASN'T our year last season and IMO it won't be this season either or any other season whilst your at the helm..so stop spoutin SHITE you embarrassing fool.

Just because I have NO Faith in Kenwrong & his muppets doesn't mean I'm (or other like me) are bad supporters...If you want to bury your head and accept mediocrity(at best) as success both ON and OFF the pitch that's your perogative...I and many others like me believe that winning trophies or at least being in with a shout to win them is a measure of success...at this present we are way off that goal
Jonathan Stockdale
32   Posted 23/07/2011 at 11:40:32

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Richard (29) by the sounds of it, you would have been the model soldier during WWI. No questions asked, just jump out of the trenches and run towards the bullets, there's a good fellow.
Jay Harris
33   Posted 23/07/2011 at 11:57:36

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Doddy,
priceless.

What will you do when your hero gets unceremoniously drummed out of Goodison.

The momentum has started in earnest.

The force is with us.

KENWRIGHT OUT.
Richard Dodd
34   Posted 23/07/2011 at 14:09:54

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I can only hope that whoever replaces him has bottomless pockets, shares all the Club`s business dealings with this forum, and will ? as instructed ? change the manager after every game lost.

Just provide details of the monied saint you have in mind and I might just start listening to the case for BB`s removal!

David O'Keefe
35   Posted 23/07/2011 at 14:55:55

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Richard: They don't have to have a replacement before criticising your man. It's up to you to defend him by citing his achievements under his tenure.

Now if you can't think of any achievements then may I suggest you throw in the towel?
Jay Harris
36   Posted 23/07/2011 at 15:05:15

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Doddy,
I would settle for a capable businessman who spends time at the club, running the club in it's best interests rather than some incompetent luvvie swanning up to the directors box every couple of weeks and then disappearing when plans and decisions have to be made whilst treating supporters and small shareholders with total contempt.

Sound like a good chairman to you?

If it does they must have started
selling Looney Juice at the Freshy!!

PJ was run out of town for a minute amount of what Kenwright has done to this club.
Richard Dodd
37   Posted 23/07/2011 at 15:21:23

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Right, Jay.... but it appears that `running PJ out of town` didn`t achieve very much ? that`s why I hesitate to join this bandwagon!
Andy Crooks
38   Posted 23/07/2011 at 16:27:08

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Richard, I have a feeling that your heroes are going to make you look silly. Something is rotten at Goodison Park and it will come out soon.
Seamus Murphy
39   Posted 23/07/2011 at 21:55:16

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Richard ? answer David O'Keefe's question, what ARE Kenwrights achievements at everton? Just what is it you see that makes you follow him so blindly?

God knows the list of his fuck-ups is long enough so come on, answer the question.

KENWRIGHT OUT.

Paul Knox
40   Posted 24/07/2011 at 08:56:23

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I will help RD out. Kenshites achievements are as follows
1) best seat in the ground, free meals and a car parking space
2) free tickets for away games and free meals
3) selling his soul to P.Green
4)Stallones Autograph
5)a boost to his ego.
Eugene Ruane
41   Posted 24/07/2011 at 10:27:33

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Phil, there's one sentence for me that nails it - "But until then, it's hypocritical of me to rant and rave, then hand over 100s of my hard earned cash".

Precisely the logic that made me jib the season-ticket two seasons ago.

As for Mr Dodds, do NOT be fooled by 'logic' like...

"Why, oh why, do so many Evertonians fill their days with hate and loathing ? most of it aimed at the very people who have kept our club at the top end of the pile?"

The notion of 'hate' in this context is spurious, disingenuous and bogus.

Fact: If you LOVE Everton and I believe (apart from the odd loon) everyone who posts on TW does, then hating those you see harming the club is PERFECTLY natural.

Isn't it?
Phil Martin
42   Posted 24/07/2011 at 10:13:35

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Richard #39, what kind of stupid logic is that. You're suggesting we stay in our current. You admit the club isn't being run (commercially and long term viability wise) poorly. Yet you don't want a change in case someone makes thinks worse.

One question, what would need to happen to the club under Bills tenure for you to agree that he isn't fit and proper? Relegation? Another 5 years of stagnation? Bankruptcy?
Steve Sweeney
43   Posted 24/07/2011 at 11:50:28

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Bill Kenwright's Legacy:

1. Failure of Kings Dock
2. Lies about Failure of Kings Dock.
3. Fortress Sports Fund Money ? "Cheque in the post".
4. Lies About Fortress Sports Fund Money.
5. DK is The Deal of The Century and is FREE.
6. DK will cost us 52M/78M
7. The Club Has been up for sale for 4 years
8. The Directors have no intention of Selling or Diluting their shareholding. Yet announcing that he had appointed Mr Harris to look for a buyer.
9. The fans will go WOW when we sign our next player
10. 50M couldn't buy Rooney, we do not need to sell.
11. The Work on the Park End will start soon, it has been decided that it is best to postpone the work to the close season.

I could go on, and yet some fans will blindly go on supporting Black Bill. The only way now to get rid of him and his useless management team is to stop funding his regime. I know it is hard and will affect our club massively but he has got to go; if he doesn't then any heartache is only going to be delayed.

If Your leg becomes gangrenous then you have to cut it off.

Nelly Verdonghan
44   Posted 24/07/2011 at 12:23:58

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Richard...I didn't need to list all of his failures...BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE IT FOR ME....

Just like KENWRONG you have disappeared into the dark when the going has gotten a little tough....need I say more...(hahaha !!)

Never mind being an avid KENWRONG supporter are you sure you're not the man himself....You've certainly shown his ability to make ridiculous statements and then vanish when asked to justify them.
Richard Dodd
45   Posted 24/07/2011 at 17:49:52

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Just fed up with arguing the toss. Most of the above is just hearsay or urban myth. BK has kept the lid on things when others would have run away and left the club to rot. BK has kept us at the top end of the Prem where only the mega rich are above us.
Brian Waring
46   Posted 24/07/2011 at 18:25:28

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Richard: "The 30M is ring-fenced."

"Virtually free stadium."

"The money will be in the bank in the morning."

So are these hearsay or urban myth?

The best one for me me is: "Don't ask me, I'm just the chairman."
Richard Dodd
47   Posted 24/07/2011 at 19:27:49

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Well, don't throw stones at me, I'm only a fan!
Nelly Verdonghan
48   Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:00:04

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Richard Dodd... more like Ken Dodd.

You've been shot down in flames sir so please have the good grace to take it on the chin... and stop trying to defend the indefensible...

Kenwright is a poor Chairman... end of!!
Tony J Williams
49   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:14:26

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Kenwright is a crap chairman... however, there have been and will be even worse than him.
Nelly Verdonghan
50   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:53:13

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Hopefully not at Everton there won't!!
Des Kenny
51   Posted 30/07/2011 at 15:53:18

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Post removed ? stop calling Kenwright a red!

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