Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

This season

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With no new faces coming in as of yet and most of the supporters getting fed-up... surely at some point this will affect the players as well.

How long will it be (if it hasn't happened already) before the players start to think, "Fuck it, what's the point?" A poor start to the season and I think you'll soon see heads start to drop.

This could be a very interesting season for Everton... for the wrong reasons!

Terry Downes, Stoke     Posted 30/07/2011 at 16:22:38

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Michael Kenrick
1   Posted 30/07/2011 at 16:33:59

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What complete rubbish.

They are professional footballers FFS ? not nervous fans. They have everything to play for. Stop giving them excuses.
Jimmy Sorheim
2   Posted 30/07/2011 at 16:37:00

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The players will do what they can, BUT I firmly belive they haven't been matched properly yet. Instead of playing Birmingham we should be playing against other top sides, perhaps Liverpool or Tottenham, or maybe a German Bundesliga team like Bayern Munich.

This will be our downfall again, it isn't the players fault but the managers!! Why can't you plan a good enough pre-season after 10 years? You must have learnt something, Moyes?! I know we will lose against Tottenham that will be no shocker, but the games after that will not be won either. Only hope is that the players trip to US will be enough for them to hold out fitness wise.

Simon Thorne
3   Posted 30/07/2011 at 16:59:19

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No 2 ? was that a piss-take post? I can't figure out if it was sarcasm or not, a sarcasm font is really needed...

Did you honestly just suggest we play a friendly against Tottenham a few weeks before we open the season against Tottenham?
Michael Kenrick
4   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:05:16

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Jimmy, I think you need a good smack!

1) Werder Bremen... er... Bundesliga!!!

2) Playing Liverpool or Tottenham pre-season... are you mad?!?!

3) "I know we will lose against Tottenham." ? That is a banning offence in my book. What on earth is the point if you've decided the result already???
Brian Waring
5   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:08:20

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Michael has a point there, Terry. We already have the money excuse for Moyes if everything goes tits-up. The last thing we need is an excuse for the players.
Des Kenny
6   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:10:44

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Why is it that we never hear the truth as to what is REALLY going on at OUR club? We are fobbed off year after year with a load of rubbish from our so called Board of Directors. Do they think we are all stupid? Some of us are a little bit more educated to see that they are trying to hoodwink the average fan. When we can't afford a reserve keeper from Preston for £150k then I think it's time to back up and give in.
Brian Waring
7   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:14:36

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Jimmy, we're also playing Villarreal, who are a decent side.
Tom Bowers
8   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:18:28

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The pre-season means nothing except getting match fit and giving some no-names a chance to shine and get experience. What matters is the Prem. and what happens in the early games.
Yes Spurs is a tough test and we will be minus Coleman and Bileyletydinov but we have had ''easier'' first games and still lost. Remember we do have a good record at Spurs in recent seasons.
There will be no notable signings just yet as Moyes will be given time to blood some of the other ''prospects'' before serious things are contemplated including his own position.
This season has to be a defining one for EFC as I am sure the fans will not take failure any longer.
Martin Handley
9   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:24:20

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You know what? ? After weeks of negativity, I'm getting my spark back... "Why/' ? you may well ask...

Well, forget new signings ? I just want to see the likes of Gueye, Vellios, Barkley and all getting a go 'cos you win nothing with kids... isn't that right, Mr Hansen!?!

Jimmy Sorheim
10   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:33:37

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I have been following all summer looking for new players coming in; after seeing James Vaughan leave, I expected to see another Vellios coming in at least, but NO!

I am running around feeling desperate and anxious because I actually expect us to go and get a new striker as a replacement for Vaughan, plus a new winger as a replacement for Pienaar. Neither of these two options have happened and the feeling of despair takes over.

I love Everton, I really do, and as a Norwegian supporter I have gotten a lot of abuse from other non-Everton supporters, usually from the redshite ones. Now I have never felt this down before in a pre-season, because we have always had Moyes saying he will get a new player soon. What I have noticed is that Moyes has gone mute and that is the most alarming thing for me!!!

I feel despair in the air coming from Moyes, only he can't express it out loud so he does it by staying quiet all pre-season. Looking back after the Rooney sale, I remember us being linked to Felli and Bily. Moyes then would typically go out on the official website and say that he was optimistic, and that he expecting two new players in. Now today we hear nothing from him.

I feel provoked and angry by this as I see it as despair from Moyes, and I don't want our manager to exude despair before the season has even started. How about some reassuring words Mr Moyes? Maybe you could talk about YOUR plans this season and your hopes for Barkley!!!

I don't think I am the only Everton supporter feeling bad right about now, but I have a feeling that most of you are focusing only on our bad chairman. Now, I don't support Kenwright at all... but for Moyes to give up on reassuring our supporters, that I cannot forgive.

It is way too early to throw in the towel, we do have a very strong squad with many exiting youngsters ? for example, Vellios, Gueye and Barkley ? the 3 of them will blossom this season, that I am sure of!

Our league placement is another thing, I have no clue whatsoever! I hope and pray for a place in Europe next year and, until we sell Jagielka or any other player, I will stand by this.

Mark Tanton
11   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:57:31

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The team will never steal a march on other sides like Spurs and Liverpool, or Man City as long as we are still trying to integrate cheap new faces, hastily brought in, and recovering from losing quality late in the window when August turns to September. We'll find ourselves starting again in November, and it's not fucking good enough. 'Big club' my arse. We're viewed with embarrassment by some, and laughter and pity by others.

I predict another sluggish start, and from a large minority of weary supporters; I predict a riot.
David Hallwood
12   Posted 30/07/2011 at 17:59:31

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Michael #1 is correct, of course; however you couldn't blame Heitinga or Fellaini for looking around and asking themselves what are they doing there. It's hardly a paradox but what makes a good footballer a great footballer is fierce ambition and determination so they won?t accept second best ? and why should they? That?s why Rooney got the hell out of here ASAP.
Andy Crooks
13   Posted 30/07/2011 at 18:41:38

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David, considering the huge salaries paid to Heitinga and Fellaini, yes, I could most certainly blame them for asking themselves what they are doing at Everton. Fellaini and Heitinga can have fierce ambition and determination but neither of them will ever be a great footballer. Messi is a great footballer; so was George Best.

If any player at Everton won't accept second best then why don't they take a bit of responsibility and earn their fucking money... because second best is what they have made us.

Mark Tanton
14   Posted 30/07/2011 at 19:43:58

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If they wanted to be anymore than second best they'd have never crossed the threshold Andy.

Mike Hargreaves
15   Posted 30/07/2011 at 20:08:13

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OK our squad is pretty good, let's stop complaining. Who you gonna put on the bench, do the players want new faces, as that puts them on the bench. If we are all fit then we can match anybody. Who else is really spending their dosh? FFS, let's get on with it, lose or luckily draw with Tottenham then 3 wins....COYB
Jon Beck
16   Posted 30/07/2011 at 20:08:58

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"Most of the supporters getting fed-up" ? Terry? Show me the evidence! I only get fed up with the negativity on the internet. I'll wait and see how the match-going fans and the players react.
Mike Hargreaves
17   Posted 30/07/2011 at 20:08:13

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OK our squad is pretty good, lets stop complaining. Who you gonna put on the bench, do the players want new faces, as that puts them on the bench. If we are all fit then we can match anybody. Who else is really spending their dosh. FFS let get on with it, lose or luckily draw with Tottenham then 3 wins wins....COYB
Adam Payne
18   Posted 30/07/2011 at 20:09:31

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I watched the game yesterday at Oxford and I am not convinced that these youngsters such as Barkley or Gueye are ready for the prem.

I may be expecting too much of them (as we probably all are) but they just looked lightweight against experienced professionals and often demonstrated poor decision making. This may onlky come with experience but as we know the premier league is unforgiving.

We need a couple of experienced reinforcements before the season starts and injuries inevitably start mounting....
Dave Wilson
19   Posted 30/07/2011 at 20:42:58

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Spot on, Andy #13

Really good players should make the difference, if they really are top draw then surely the team they play for should be top draw?

Would Everton with Rooney be better than Man United without him? That £27M they paid was an absolute steal

And if people don't believe this group of players are not going to do much better than last season, why the hell was everyone so disappointed?

Anything less than a 10-point improvement on last season would be a bitter disappointment. I expect more.
David Hallwood
20   Posted 30/07/2011 at 23:50:18

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Now, now, gents... don't gang up on me. Andy (#13) & Dave (#19) are missing the point. Yes, good players do make a difference and there is no excuse for their performance levels to drop; however, supposing you are Fellaini and you're quite settled here, but you're not stupid and know that the team needs to be strengthened and is crying out for a quality forward(s) and some pace on the flanks, but the club hasn?t signed anyone... and you know that, without a couple of signings, it's almost certainly goodbye honours, goodbye Europe ? that?s before a ball has been kicked.

Now if you?re a dead arse, who cares. You?re getting good wedge and, because of the size of the squad, the team picks itself, so you?re guaranteed a game. But you?re ambitious and when you?re coming to the end of your playing career, you want a cabinet full of medals.

So we will continue to lose our best players until the board show even a modicum of drive and ambition.
James Flynn
21   Posted 31/07/2011 at 01:39:03

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Kenrick (1) summed it up and Wilson (19) gets closest to the way I'm thinking, except I'm thinking 12-15 point improvement. Why not?

We need to start fast.
Charlie Percival
22   Posted 31/07/2011 at 05:25:24

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Michael (1) you're Wrong.

They may be professionals but more imprtantly they are Employees. have you ever lost desire, work ethic etc to do your job because of the powers above not doing whats best for the 'company' by makingit more productive and efficient? Have you ever had a slack day in work due to your teammates or managment (board) not pulling their weight? Going to work with a smile on your face makes a huge difference to anybodys output, footballer or street sweeper, millionaire or pauper.

Terry Downes, spot On.

In The Peoples Group I Trust
Ged Simpson
23   Posted 31/07/2011 at 08:00:29

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"In The People's Group I Trust" ? Is that going to appear at the end of posts this season?

In Moyes (partially), the skill of Baines, a bit of luck, a Samoan Deity and Guinness I Trust. (You can join me on Twatter and watch 25 fans meet me at the Spurs game.)
Dave Wilson
24   Posted 31/07/2011 at 07:33:44

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David

In the past couple of seasons we've seen Rooney, Ronaldo wanting away; we've seen Torres, Mascherano and Alonso all insisting on a move; Tevez is adamant, so too is Fabregas. Nasri seems hellbent, Modric too.

The point I`m making is these players are not always in pursuit of glory, it's the even bigger bucks they want ? no matter what they say.

You`re right of course, Everton players are no different... but, unless somebody comes in with a head turning inquiry, very few of our players actually ask for a move.

Moyes is often accused of being in a no-lose situation and this is one of the reasons. Nobody bangs on Davey`s door on Monday Mornings demanding to know why he wasn't playing, but until they can finish in the top four, they are in no position to demand a move to a team that does.

James

I believe next seasons champions will have the lowest points tally in Premier League history. We saw clear signs last season that the so-called lesser teams were closing the gap on the top boys, with "shocks" becoming a weekly event. If Moyes's team make the improvements we are entitled to expect, then Why Not indeed...

Billy Bradshaw
25   Posted 31/07/2011 at 10:14:39

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Hey John, where have you been hiding?? It would be nice to meet up with you in Germany to see the real match-going fans. Most if not all my fellow Toffeemen are fed up with the current situation as you will observe in the forthcoming friendly games against Bremen and Villarreal.
Mike Green
26   Posted 31/07/2011 at 10:07:16

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I read on these pages we'd not paid a fee for a player for two years. I've not sat down to work it out but that's SHITE when you consider what we've got at right back, on both wings, and up front. I genuinely believe the likes of Pip, Cahill, Distin, Leon, Leighton and Howard are total professionals but the jury's out on some others.

Without new signings, where's the competition for places, where's the improvement, where's the protection from the team getting 'stale', or is this just managerial cliche?

It felt pretty stale when I saw the team sheet yesterday. It felt like Groundhog Day. As does every other one when I look at The Rumour Mill. It's fucking depressing. Come on you blues. See, flat as a pancake. And we won.

Jay Harris
27   Posted 31/07/2011 at 13:05:12

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Dave,
I would love to think you are right about closing the gap on the top 4 or 5 but I feel that the opposite might be true.

Chelsea have Sturridge coming through and it will not be long before Torres returns to goalscoring allied to Drogba, Anelka and Kalou will make them a potent force.

Man U have strengthened enormously and with the development of Smalling allied to Ashley Young's ability on the wing will be even more of a force next season.

Man City are spending money like confetti and look set to become a real force.

I hate to say it but King Kenny's £100 million splash has considerably strenghtened the RS and regrettably I feel they will move further away from the following pack next season.

Spurs already have a pretty strong squad but will look for improvement this year. However, they do seem to flatter to deceive.

Arsenal are another enigma. I sometimes think Wenger has lost the plot. One or two players away from challenging for the title but one or two players from being also-rans.

I wish I shared some supporters' positiveness about this coming season but I feel it will be a watershed in the history of EFC with ground-out results, disenchantment on the terraces and a failure to hold on to the coat tails of the elite.

I just hope we can get rid of Kenwright and cronies before the threat of relegation looms.
Dave Wilson
28   Posted 31/07/2011 at 13:47:53

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I hear you, Jay.

Like you, I fear for the future, or the lack of... The only thing that's keeping me going is the belief that NOW, for this coming season at least, I think we have a genuine shout.

Yes, the others have brought in new players, but they are all having problems too.

Liverpool will start the season without their talisman, their captain is all but finished and their new signings also have to prove they fit.

The Spurs playmaker is deeply unhappy, IMO things had started to go a little pear-shaped towards the back-end of last season anyway.

Everyone seems to want out of Arsenal.

Chelsea are never the same powerhouse without Essien.

Tevez wants out, the City camp seems full of egos.

And the goalkeeper who was worth 10+ points to Man U last season has gone.

I`m not ignoring the very real danger of teams coming up behind us because I believe we will see a concertina effect next season.

I know we won't overtake all the teams who finished above us last season, but I can't bring myself to believe that we can't catch some of them.

What's going on off the park should have no short-term bearing on what happens on it. I think we are entitled to expect considerable improvement from last season's under-performing players, otherwise ? as MK #1 says ? we are providing them with an excuse before a ball is kicked.

And before anybody asks ? Yes, that goes for the manager too.
Jason Heng
29   Posted 31/07/2011 at 14:42:45

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A year ago there was unprecedented optimism of a challenge for top 4.

We basically have the same squad, only less Pienaar and Vaughan.

Is the only real change our mood?

Mark Tanton
30   Posted 31/07/2011 at 15:38:53

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Bloody hell Dave, the contempt you show toward other clubs, and the sheer speculation of your post is really rather silly.

Do you honestly think you can go down each club which is clearly better placed than us and give reaons why they'll fail this coming season?

I like your enthusiasm and optimism but your post is, frankly, embarrassing.

All the clubs you mention will expect to finish above us. Worryingly, there another handful of clubs (Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham) who will now also share these expectations having steadily caught up over the last five years.
Phil Bellis
31   Posted 31/07/2011 at 16:02:36

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Definitely a trend has developed...
65
63
61
54
Andy Peers
32   Posted 31/07/2011 at 16:04:36

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Anyone care to guess starting 11 for Spurs?

Howard
Hibbert, Jags, Distin, Baines
Coleman, Neville, Heitinga, Osman, Rodwell
Anichebe

I presume Fellaini and Arteta will still be injured. This is not the team I would pick but Moyes will be going for a draw.

Mark Tanton
33   Posted 31/07/2011 at 16:09:53

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The facts cannot be hidden, Phil. Unless you feel like making a stupid naive list of reasons why you think all the successful clubs will fail next season.

We'll be where we belong next season, around the middle. If we're lucky.

We had our big chance to embrace European football and close the gap for good, but suffered inertia at the worst time. Chance gone.
Trevor Mackie
34   Posted 31/07/2011 at 16:05:16

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James @ 21

Please, please stop saying "we need to start fast" as though it's a tangible solution ? it's an abstract wish.
Mark Tanton
35   Posted 31/07/2011 at 16:17:14

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I would like to know where James thinks those extra five wins are going to come from?

This is the season in which we may finish below Sunderland, Villa and Stoke, and even further beyond our reach will be Liverpool, Man City and Tottenham. Put Arsenal and Man Utd, with Chelsea above us as well, and that's mid table at best.
Dean Adams
36   Posted 31/07/2011 at 16:45:57

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Mark Tanton

How about beating the 3 promoted clubs, twice each. 18 points ? that's nearly enough of an increase over last season to close the gap!!!! Oh and of course a home win and away win against Blackburn for good measure.
Mark Tanton
37   Posted 31/07/2011 at 17:17:00

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Yeah, I didn't realise it would be that easy.

Apologies.
Dave Wilson
38   Posted 31/07/2011 at 19:23:38

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Mark.

Sorry, mate, the only thing I find embarrassing is the speed with which you raise the white flag.

I don't say the other clubs will fail, I give reasons as to why they might fail. They all want the same thing, so some of them HAVE TO fail ? that's a fact!

I don't care if the other clubs expect to finish above us, it's our job to see they don't. That's not contempt; it's merely a refusal to throw the towel in before a ball is kicked.

Phil #31

The shite were nowhere, Spurs dipped out... and Arsenal have to play a qualifier, if its trends you are into, they should all be shitting themselves.

Trends... my arse!
Phil Bellis
39   Posted 31/07/2011 at 20:23:15

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Dave, trends := facts := your arse

We have accumulated less points each season for the last 4 ? just an observation but true, nonetheless.
Mark Tanton
40   Posted 31/07/2011 at 21:08:14

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Dave you're clearly a committed and loyal supporter, and how can I argue with you, you're what a football club needs.

I just worry we're going backwards and we're going to be seriously fucked in the next five years unless something happens. Change is required.
Trevor Mackie
41   Posted 31/07/2011 at 21:53:51

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Optimism is one thing, but christ it gets more like the tank crew on "Kelly's Heroes" every year...

"Well, yeah, man, you see, like, all the tanks we come up against are bigger and better than ours, so all we can hope to do is, like, scare 'em away, y'know. This gun is an ordinary 76-mm but we add this piece of pipe onto it, and the Krauts think, like, maybe it's a 90-mm. We got our own ammunition, it's filled with paint. When we fire it, it makes... pretty pictures. Scares the hell outta people! We have a loudspeaker here, and when we go into battle we play music, very loud. It kind of... calms us down. "

Courtesy of "Oddball", the tank commander.

Andy Crooks
42   Posted 31/07/2011 at 22:10:16

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Mark, you're right. Dave Wilson is more than capable of presenting his case and I have had numerous disagreements with him but it seems to me that he is taking a pragmatic approach.

Supporters have a dilemma at present: many of us want Kenwright gone and see Moyes's efforts in holding the line as effectively propping up the regime, Yet what is the alternative? To me, it seems that on the field disaster might well hasten off-the-field change. In my view it is too high risk to be palatable.

I believe our best hope is for the squad to have some luck with injuries, for the players to consistently play to their potential and to see more of the decent football that we have shown at times. It is odd but, even as I wrote that, I can see Kenwright basking in the glow it would bring. FFS I just don't know.

Gavin Ramejkis
43   Posted 31/07/2011 at 22:20:20

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Trevor, I love that film; here's another quote:

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

I'm sure Dave would prefer that one.
Mark Tanton
44   Posted 31/07/2011 at 22:28:57

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In some ways, and this is very troubling to say, but I'm sure there would be a few who would agree; in some ways, we need a poor start, and we need a poor season... which might force someone's hand.

Having said that, it patently is risky to think that event might bring around improvement.
Jay Harris
45   Posted 31/07/2011 at 22:41:53

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Let's be honest, guys ? the only thing that will shift Kenwright is the tank crew from Kelly's Heroes.

He is too thick-skinned for fans complaint groups and will only be forced out if Moyes resigns and there is a mass revolt by fans... which I can't see happening.

I really wish I believed otherwise but I can see a deterioration in the mood on the terraces, falling attendances and a real fight on our hands with a totally inferior squad.

Does anyone genuinely believe that we have better players than the top 6 last season with the exception of Baines?

The only thing that keeps us in it is the team spirit and camaraderie and that only takes you so far.
Trevor Mackie
46   Posted 31/07/2011 at 22:51:17

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Gav, brilliant ? probably my favourite.

The blissful faith in "positive waves" like "Oddball" is our only hope ? pity I've turned into "Moriarty" ? "always with the negative waves, man".
Tom Bowers
47   Posted 31/07/2011 at 20:54:26

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Wow Andy, that team looks woeful. Coleman will not play (suspended). Osman starting. First defeat for sure.
James Flynn
48   Posted 01/08/2011 at 02:50:17

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Dave (24) - "If Moyes`s team make the improvements we are entitled to expect, then Why Not indeed".

All I'm saying and nothing more. You declared a 10-point improvement. (The only one to make a projection by the way.) I upped it to 12-15 points. I agree the league is getting tougher all-round.

My optimism is the fact we're not a relegation-challenged team. We're the team sitting just outside the money with the unusual circumstance of returning everyone from last year. Even Yobo and Yak are back. Do any of us talk about this and players don't? They know this is it for the current squad.

I see this season as the one we make the final jump. (I was going to say "leap", but can't see why a leap is needed when a mere jump will do.)
James Flynn
49   Posted 01/08/2011 at 03:19:11

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Mark (30 - 33 - 35 - 37) - You've given up on this season. OK. Some of us haven't.

Interestingly, hours later Mark (40), your meds kicked-in properly, then (44) the dosage was clearly not what was required. (Your post's fun reading mind.)

Let me propose we have a good team with everyone back and that team can make the final move upward.

Ask your therapist.
James Flynn
50   Posted 01/08/2011 at 03:42:36

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Trevor (34) - You're joking, correct?

One of th few things not debated here is that EFC starts slow and finishes fast.

Let me ask your opinion. We start the first 8 games with 18 points? Where do you think we finish in May?

Dee Gidwani
51   Posted 01/08/2011 at 04:49:11

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On their day, the squad we have can beat anyone in the league.

Let's just hope we have 38 such days in the coming season!
Dave Wilson
52   Posted 01/08/2011 at 05:50:18

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Ah Gavin,

I suspect you don't agree, but at least you understood.

It wasn't so much Oddball's "blissful faith" in positive waves, it was his certain knowledge of the damage caused by negative waves.

James,

"The only one to make a projection btw."

Nice try, brother, but you will not draw out the Moriartys. For them, it's all about being right.

They figure if they are not wrong, they will be able to come back using the benefit of hindsight and tell us how accurately they called it and how foolish everyone else was to even suggest we might...

They will never find the courage to say what they believe the team will do, they only ever tell us what we won't do.

I`ve tried to provoke them on several different threads now. No takers.
Dave Wilson
53   Posted 01/08/2011 at 06:54:23

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Mark #40

"We're going to be seriously fucked in five years unless something happens."

Agreed.
Gavin Ramejkis
54   Posted 01/08/2011 at 08:22:35

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Dave, I may not always agree with you but I can't slate some optimism; the bigger picture and longer game worries me though... has for years and it's coming home to roost after me whingeing for years.

I take no pleasure in the "I told you so" stuff about BK's crackpot business model or the forecast of us not signing any players.

I'd love to see us coming out of the blocks like a greyhound, not like a three-legged donkey on its way to the Kitekat and glue factory and pray that injuries don't kill our season yet again.
Jason Lam
55   Posted 01/08/2011 at 08:52:15

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3 pts, we've been doing quite well at WHL recently.
Trevor Mackie
56   Posted 01/08/2011 at 11:04:50

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James @ 50

"Trevor (34) ? You're joking, correct?

One of the few things not debated here is that EFC starts slow and finishes fast."

It wasn't being debated... take a deep breath ... read what I wrote again.

You're doing the middle management guff of earnestly stating a symptom as though it's a solution ? it's not.
Ciarán McGlone
57   Posted 01/08/2011 at 11:20:03

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"They figure if they are not wrong, they will be able to come back using the benefit of hindsight and tell us how accurately they called it and how foolish everyone else was to even suggest we might...

They will never find the courage to say what they believe the team will do, they only ever tell us what we won't do."

-------------------------------------
Yes, Dave ? you and the Electric Woodbines are dead brave for predicting that a team without a striker or any wide players is going to do damage this season and make the Champions League....

I've another word for it, but I'll save it for your article ? as you still haven't produced a single bit of compelling evidence/logic/discussion for your conviction.


Contrary to your belief that you're the only one who's 'brave', I predicted 9th last season and I think I'll have 10th this season.

And for those who say we finished well last season ? you should have watched the games... we actually finished poorly. Limped over the line.
Derek Thomas
58   Posted 01/08/2011 at 11:24:38

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Woof - Woof
Phil Bellis
59   Posted 01/08/2011 at 11:40:53

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To follow Derek's quote, above, from Lassie Come Home, I offer this to exemplify my hopes/fears for next season...

"You didn't see Lefors out there did you?"
"Lefors? No. Why?"
"Good. For a minute there I thought we were in trouble""
Des Kenny
60   Posted 01/08/2011 at 12:21:35

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Please give me something to be optimistic about. Something to excite me. A few decent players coming in to enhance the potential rather than selling a player to pay the electricity bill. I have never felt so concerned about a forthcoming season ever before. Let's hope that Wimbledon game isn't repeated in 2011-12.
Gavin Ramejkis
61   Posted 01/08/2011 at 12:58:15

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Nice one, Phil, so we emerge from the tunnel like Butch and Sundance to an army of Federales.
Michael Brien
62   Posted 01/08/2011 at 12:49:34

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Mark ? so we are going to get seriously fucked are we? So I would gather you are not an optimist then? So everyone else in the PL is in brilliant shape and we are a shambles?

We haven't signed anyone yet ? indeed there is more talk of who might leave. But isn't that the case with Tottenham ? that's Tottenham who played in the Champions League last season... there is more talk of whether or not Modric is going to stay than who 'Arry is going to sign.

Of course you say 'Arry will soon bring in new signings. Really? Well usually 'Arry does more wheeling and dealing than Del Boy... yet this summer he has been strangely quiet. Surely he hasn't got to sell before he buys, has he? But isn't it only Everton that have to do that???

I gather that Sunderland have signed more players than any other club. There's a bookies a couple of doors from our Office ? I must put a few quid on them... How about a double of PL Champions and Manager of The Year for Steve Bruce. Surely a certainty.

Mark Tanton
63   Posted 01/08/2011 at 13:25:09

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Head in the sand, Michael (# ). Tottenham are a better-ran club than us, and have a far better squad than us. They are pushing forward while we're trying desperately to hang around.

Sunderland are building something exciting and will probably have a good season.

We're on a level with Stoke now, a team we may well struggle to finish ahead of. Stoke are a good side, building year on year while we have stood relatively still.
Mark Tanton
64   Posted 01/08/2011 at 13:34:30

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And to add to that:

a) Tottenham are under no pressure to strengthen, they have a very good squad.

b) Tottenham are very comfortable in the knowledge that if they need or want someone, they will move swiftly and successfully and sign someone (can we say that?)

c) If they do lose Modric, they will quite probably buy someone more exciting and better. Tottenham are bold and forceful in the transfer market, we are not.
Des Kenny
65   Posted 01/08/2011 at 13:28:15

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Michael Kenrick, will you please take off your rose tinted glasses and take a real look at what is happening with OUR Team. You know, WE the supporters who pay our hard-earned money to go and watch the team. The club is crumbling around our feet.

Why is it that so many supporters are coming onto this site to pass comment on what is happening and you think that BK is wonderful and doing a superb job in making us a laughing stock.

Can you tell me why we, meaning EFC are selling players i.e. Rooney, Lescott, Pienaar and maybe Jags to other clubs? We are... sorry, we WERE a large club until certain members on our board got their teeth into us and started sucking us dry. Just where exactly is the money??? We USED to win trophies and now we build up players for other teams to rape us of our best players.

Michael Kenrick
66   Posted 01/08/2011 at 14:10:56

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Des, You're obviously a little confused.

Bill Kenwright is NOT running the club very well and has committed heinous crimes against the very essence of Everton FC in the past to get us to the parlous point where we are today.

However, the simple truth is that things off the field are not going to change overnight...

Meanwhile, on the field, David Moyes will have a squad of 25 players who are essentially the same as... possibly somewhat better than the squad he had last season.

To bleat about the players or the manager losing interest and lacking motivation when they have everything to play for in the "best" league in the world, and are rewarded massively for it (that's where your hard-earned is really going, fella!) is unconscionable (look it up).
Michael Kenrick
67   Posted 01/08/2011 at 14:14:57

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Leighton gets it:
Leighton Baines says Everton cannot allow Arsenal?s pursuit of Phil Jagielka to be an ?excuse? for dropping their standards ? like they did when Manchester City signed Joleon Lescott two years ago.
No excuses.
Mark Tanton
68   Posted 01/08/2011 at 14:27:58

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You can try and avoid distractions Michael but it's easier said than done.

The season was distrupted by Moyes' bizarre and stubborn to play Lescott when he wanted to play for Man City.

Yes, Moyes was "sticking it to the big spenders" and showing he couldn't be bullied, but he cut his nose off to spite his face and it caused tension and a foul atmosphere.

Perhaps he was trying to show we can't be bossed around by Man City. Unfortunately we are now the kind of club which needs the crumbs from their table to survive.
David Chait
69   Posted 01/08/2011 at 14:31:12

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I couldn't agree more on anything than I do with MK about this issue. Transfers are part and parcel of sport, let alone football. If the transfer of a player is enough to cause disruption then Moyes has to take a very long hard look at himself and how he manages them.

There are NO excuses to letting rumours stop the team from kicking on. I'm banging on the youth drum right now because we have invested in youth over the last few years and we are seeing them reach an age where they might be breaking through or starting to hold a spot. Gueye, Rodders and Coleman are all a year older. For this reason alone we are in a stronger starting position than last year.
Dave Wilson
70   Posted 01/08/2011 at 14:06:48

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Ciaran

You wont find a single post anywhere here where I say we WILL qualify for the champions league.

Theres a difference between saying we have a fighting chance and throwing the towel in.

Now if its all the same to you me and the rest of the electric woodbines will spend the summer in anticipation of marked improvement, but dont let us come between you and your hopelessness

And remember ! if the challenge looks a little difficult . . fcuk it
Ciarán McGlone
71   Posted 01/08/2011 at 15:37:12

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"You wont find a single post anywhere here where I say we WILL qualify for the Champions League.

Theres a difference between saying we have a fighting chance and throwing the towel in."

----------------------------------

That sounds mysteriously like you're hedging you bets ? the thing you'v been accusing everyone else of..

Come on David, Be BRAVE!
Dave Wilson
72   Posted 01/08/2011 at 19:19:39

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No bet hedging here mate. My colours are firmly nailed to the mast.

I havent seen the odds for us finishing top 4 - havent looked yet - but thats were money is going, I`ve already told you that. Not sure how much clearer I can make it.

fell very free to take whatever odds you can get on us finishing 10th - if you can find a bookie as miserable as you.

You take the low road and I`ll take the high road
"And I`ll be getting weighed in befoooor you"
Phil Bellis
73   Posted 01/08/2011 at 21:28:19

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Dave,
do you not do trend betting,then?
Dave Wilson
74   Posted 02/08/2011 at 07:09:25

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Well I suppose I cobble together a few worthless stats and dress them up as trends Phil.

I guess I could even call them facts in an attempt to make them appear less worthless.

I`ll give it some thought
Danny Biddle
75   Posted 02/08/2011 at 07:10:28

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Why do people keep comparing us to Stoke and Sunderland? They may well have made a few signings but, would any of them get a starting place in our team? All they have signed are a few squad players and Sunderland had to sell their main goal scorer in order to do it.

And as for the Lescott saga that a few are going on about. Yes Moyes was wrong to play him that 1st game and even have him around the squad at the time. However, him dragging his heals in got us £24M, which everyone should agree was way over the odds. Is the same about to happen with Jags? I dont think so as Jags seems to be more professional and wont let it affect him or the squad!
Des Kenny
76   Posted 02/08/2011 at 08:32:09

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Please don't compare us to Stoke or Sunderland. They have money to spend on new players.
Derek Thomas
77   Posted 02/08/2011 at 09:47:59

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Phil Bellis, obviously no member of the ' Kelly's Hero's' has a quote for all eventualities club.

' Woof Woof ', said Oddball. Translation by the aforementioned Lassie ( who was a laddie btw )

Barton's a dog, you've gotta be dreaming.
Phil Bellis
78   Posted 02/08/2011 at 20:22:43

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Mr Wilson
You are a prize tit.; wtf are you on?..
Phil Bellis
79   Posted 02/08/2011 at 20:25:26

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Sorry Derek....too oblique for me, apologies
Dave Wilson
80   Posted 02/08/2011 at 21:23:39

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Phil

Impressive display of courage, but I think you`ll find it was me Ciaran was challenging to get all brave.

Ciaran

I see you`ve gone for 7th on another thread, which is it ?
James Flynn
81   Posted 03/08/2011 at 02:27:08

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Dave (52) - I hear you. But hope does spring eternal (even in ToffeeWeb) and for all the back and forth in here, our 10-15 point declarations are what everyone wants to be true. How can I put it? We 2 Everton dogs approach this coming season with our tails up. We're not alone, although many, too many, approach this season with their tails between their legs.

To all TWers. Fuck ownership. We are where we are and the season's on us. We have talent. We have experience at every level; old to young. My opinion is that 12-15 point are there to be had and EFC will have them. Dave Wilson said, "Anything less than a 10-point improvement on last season would be a bitter disappointment. I expect more". I agree and so do you.

By the by. I'm trying to fix my schedule to get Merseyside this season. Very exciting to me the thought of walking towards Goodison for the first time, then into the stadium. What's the best place to book seats; view-wise and/or best folks around me-wise?
James Flynn
82   Posted 03/08/2011 at 03:34:03

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Trevor (34) - "it's an abstract wish".

(56) - "You're doing the middle management guff of earnestly stating a symptom as though it's a solution".

Good to know - James

James Flynn
83   Posted 03/08/2011 at 03:39:20

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Mickael (67) - "No excuses".

Well-said.
Derek Thomas
84   Posted 04/08/2011 at 09:20:44

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Phil Bellis; view a copy of the film.

Nearly as many cinematagraphic allussions as Kill Bill.

A sequence near the end could be written for BK and DM buying players with little or no money.

There's a German tank infront of the bank !

So.

We can't get in.

Make him a deal.

Wadda ya mean a deal, what sort of deal.

A 'deal' deal ( aka box him off with a share of the gold )

A minor Classic in it's way... and as mentioned quotes for all occasions.
Derek Thomas
85   Posted 04/08/2011 at 09:36:51

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James Flynn I commend your positivity. It seems a pragmatic sort of Yankee can do, without decending into Doddy-esque delusion.

If you pick the right game to go to and the Old Lady Rocks, you will be totally blown away and will judge all other sporting venues and games by this to their detriment.

Which is now only, or so it seems 3 or 4 times a season, unlike my blue tinted memory which maintain that it was like that for every game.

You pays your money and takes your chances.
James Flynn
86   Posted 05/08/2011 at 01:06:37

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Derek (85) - Thanks. But where do you think the best place is at Goodison to watch the game (view and those around you)?

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