Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Does Moyes have any personal ambition?

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I was engaged in conversation with a couple of Liverpudlians last evening during the off/on Arteta saga, when they stated that if Moyes had any personal ambition he would have gone by now given our financial restraints. Much as I would have liked to disagree I couldn't, their opinions seemingly backed up during deadline day discussion on 5Live, when it was stated that, "If Arteta was sold behind his back, then what control did Moyes retain over team affairs?"

The debate continued along the lines that, since Moyes signed his last contract, he had been a lot less vocal about the constraints he's working under. Don't get me wrong here his tatics/substitutions can be extremely baffling but, if he were to resign, he'd be employed elsewhere in the Premier League with more financial clout.

It seems to me that he's accepted that we can't progress without a considerable influx of funds /takeover, which will not happen any time soon whilst Kenwright keeps a tight hold on his train set.

The sale of Arteta sends a clear message to the senior professionals: can anyone now see Fellaini extending his contract or Baines & Jagielka prepared to stay beyond January?

Jim Feeney, Liverpool     Posted 01/09/2011 at 16:15:01

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Joey Brown
1   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:06:05

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Blah blah blah, so would have Fellaini, Cahill, Rodwell, Baines, Jags, and Coleman.

Do I think Moyes is happy about finances? No!

But sometimes people want to try to finish what they start and we were so close to the Champions League not long ago and if the City bubble ever busts or just Liverpool and Arsenal start tanking we could have an outside shot of it again.

Just because Moyes doesn't want to be handed anything he wants like City or United or Chelsea, doesn't mean he's unambitious, hell you could argue he is more for trying to stick with a difficult task.

Listen to the players they generally all seem pretty happy to be blues. And I'd guess so does Moyes.
Geoff Trenner
2   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:10:45

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Moyes is showing what a lot of people on here berate players for lacking i.e. loyalty.
If Fellaini doesn't want to extend his contract and/or Baines & Jagielka want away in January then let's get what we can for them & move on.
Everton is bigger than any one or ant three players
Jim Feeney
3   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:11:52

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he's more a less he cant take the
club any further without funds and like the sizeable majority believe Kenwright's continued control of the
club has stalled progress and we will slowly start to slip backwards if this remains the case. As for Moyes he has a couple of years left, Kenwright wants him to stay, would you seriously extend a contract when you know cant progress?
Robert Johnson
4   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:13:36

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Joey

Wish i had the pills your taking mate.
Tony J Williams
5   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:25:35

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Maybe his ambition outstrips his ability?

He want's to win things and with each setback, it makes him more determined to prove his doubters wrong. maybe that's why he stays (that and a belting wage packet)

I suppose it's just easier to call him a coward though.

If it was me, I would have walked last night and switched the light off when I did.

Perhaps he thinks, like a lot on here, that Arteta is a spent force and that we have players to replace him. So losing Arteta, to him, may not be as devastating as some may think.
Ian Tunstead
6   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:24:17

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Why are you letting Liverpool fans get in your head. Everybody knows they are full of shite.

I cant see Moyes being a quitter, he doesnt seem the type to get going when the going gets tough. He's got us through tougher times thats for sure.

I dont understand what you mean by a lack of ambition, lets say he does get going, does he have to go to a top 4 club to show he has ambition were the team is already built for him and he can buy who he wants? Is their a top 4 club available?

How was Arteta sold behind his back? Arteta asked Moyes permission and Moyes being sensible allowed it to go through. He didnt want another Lescott type drama and Arteta has given loyal service to the club and Moyes. Moyes probably felt Arteta deserved his chance to play CL football.
Matty Dawkins
7   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:22:54

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We regroup and move on people... Arteta ain't all that anymore, he's struggled to beat the first man from a corner for the last 18 months.
He wasn't sold behind Moyes' back, he asked to leave.
Phil Martin
8   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:31:05

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Moyes will not renew his contract in 18 months time and will almost certainly leave with his head held high. Yes we couldve played better football and yes he didnt win anything (I predict). Given the financial restraints he couldn't have done much better in terms of consistent league placings.
He'll almost certainly pick and choose his next club.

He's loyal and he's also paid very well. But unless new owners come in and give him reasons to stay (ie. transfer funds and guarantees about not needing to sell 1st choice players) why would anyone sign up for another 12 years of this punishment?

It's a sorry mess we're in, and I refuse to accept that this situation was inevitable.

Fuck the board!
Dick Anderson
9   Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:34:43

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Where would Moyes go?????

Everton are a big fucking club. There aren't many clubs bigger then Everton.

Man Utd & Arsenal have long term managers not going anywhere soon.

Chelsea and Man City only want fashionable foreign managers.

Liverpool is of course out because it would be impossible to switch to a local rival.

Sunderland, Aston Villa and Newcastle are similar size clubs to Everton. Sure they have more money to spend but chances are Moyes already has a better team at Everton and can finish higher in the league with Everton.

And the rest, Bolton, Wolves, Stoke, Fulham, Wigan, etc... are all smaller clubs.

The only realistic option for Moyes is Spurs. They are big club with a good amount of money. And to be honest I think Moyes will eventually go to Spurs when Harry gets the England job.

So its not lack of ambition keeping Moyes at Everton. There just aren't many better jobs available to him.
Joey Brown
10   Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:08:16

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Just my daily vitamin Robert... but I'll find you the bottle.

I just don't think we should doubt his ambition because he isn't taking the easy approach to winning. Had we won the Europa league and not gone out to Fiorentina and beat Chelsea in the Fa Cup, would he unambitious then?

I admire the man for sticking with us in what seriously is an impossible situation. I probably would have thrown in the towel by now.
James Martin
11   Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:28:17

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Arteta wasn't sold behind his back, we were going to keep him and finish off a decent transfer window (at least for Everton). He can't do anything once Arteta says he wants to go. We can't afford to keep unhappy players. If they don't want to play for Everton then get them out.
Jon Cox
12   Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:16:17

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Apart from Spurs Moyes will either go to Celtic or manage Scotchland.

On another note, I dont see how being a good manager can equate to ambition. A manager can be ambitious but tactically inept. Or a tactical genius, but so laid back he would have trouble standing up.

Over the past ten years Moyes has proved that he does not learn from his mistakes. Like, no plan B or when to put subs on, who to put on, square pegs in Rounds hole etc, the list gets bigger every season.

Like someone said about players and the club being bigger, it's the same with not just our manager but most other clubs managers.

To say Moyes would do great things if he went to a club with money to burn is a misnomer. It would be like the worst eratic and accident prone driver in the world with a zillion points on his license thinking that if he trades in his Nissan Micra for a top of the range Merc then suddenly over night, he gets the Nobel prize for driving skills and Highway code dedication.

I like the bloke as a bloke but he just seems to rigid in his thinking. He seems to like yes men (Round) but really should have a guy like Joe Jordan who knows about attack and what to do in the final third of the pitch.

With the new signings we can only wait and more to the point,

hope.

COYB !
Vinny Garstrokes
13   Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:53:28

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I am not convinced that DM will take the Spurs job when Harry takes the England job. If there is one thing DM has enjoyed these past few years is the autonomy to decide on who goes, comes and stays. In Daniel Levy there is a guy who at every opportunity is wanting to take the crib board out to see who has got the biggest cock and then wave it at all and sundry to show what a big boy he is. I personally can't see DM working with or for anybody like that and the only place I can see him going is Celtic.
Jon Cox
14   Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:27:48

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Vinny quite agree. Oh and my real name is P. issoff (from a Russian background of course)

You might have fooled Michael but....

Funny anyway

Pee
Karl Meighan
15   Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:27:31

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Maybe Moyes has something most players no nothing of loyalty, after all we took him from Preston and gave him his chance and he may feel that if he can bring success to Everton that it is worth a lot more than it would at any other Club given the circumstances.

I do think there have been times judging by his interviews that he is thinking "Here we fuckin go again another barrier" but then just gets on with it. How long he can put up with not only having no transfer budget and even worse having his better players asking to leave remains to be seen but we all know how hard it is to swallow when Stoke and the like are out spending us.
Joe McMahon
16   Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:39:19

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No he doesn't. He's on far too big a wage for acheaving no trophys in 10 years, he has no expectations at Everton. I'm amazed people thought Villa werea sideways step, and i'm suprised (and very dissapointed) he didn't go. How can a Club that spent over 20 million on one player in the last January window be a sideways step compared to our purchases of £00.00 (again)

Who's gonna score the Goals, Injury ravaged Saha? Victor (not scored a league goal for 2 years)Anichebie? Long season ahead, with some very dour grim football to watch! If Moyes had any Ambition he would have already resigned months ago.
Jackie Barry
17   Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:46:55

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"he'd be employed elsewhere in the Premier League with more financial clout"

You mean any team above us and below us in the league......

Afterall we are the real deal when it comes to paupers.
Anthony Flack
18   Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:48:54

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Looking for optimism somewhere, but I recall our best spell for many years was when we had no strikers at all - just Fella and Cahill. I am not harking back to those days but maybe when Saha is unfit, the Argie,Greek or even Baxter or Mckelvey might step up to the plate - I agree re. big Vic, I just hope he proves us all wrong..
Trevor Mackie
19   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:01:12

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Moyes has the cushiest job in the Prem.

He runs the club - Kenwright asks HIM what to do.

Despite what critics like me think, to the multitude he is the Moyesiah.

He's cagey enough to know it's better here ambitious and untouchable than somewhere else ambitious and unemployed.

Dour he may be stupid I think not.
Mike Gaynes
20   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:28:51

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Joe, your moaning is just getting tiring. Who's going to score the goals? The same people who scored them when we ran up 21 points in our last eleven games last season and finished seventh. Or do you really think that Beckford's eight mighty goals are irreplaceable?
Of course you do... but you also think we'd be better off without Moyes. I can't wait to find out who you'd rather have.
Lee Howard
21   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:38:51

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Do you think he is just waiting for SF to retire/die for the Man U job?
Andy Crooks
22   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:39:29

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Joey Brown, I wonder if Moyes was asked to take a, say£1million a year pay cut, you know to help us through hard times(and after all it would still make him vastly overpaid, having won nothing and produced some of the worst football I've ever seen at Goodison park).Or, would he stay to finish what he started? Not a fucking chance. Kenwright bought a poodle for £3.5 million a year.
Andy Crooks
23   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:45:50

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Mike, the same tired who'd you rather have argument. Better the devil you know and the one I really hate. Careful what you wish for. It seems to be an accepted fact among many Evertonians that we owe Moyes. That he has done a better job than anyone else could, that we owe him. How do you know? I cannot accept that Moyes was and is the best our money can buy.Everton is the best job Moyes will ever have and he knows it.Man Utd? Now that is hilarious. Celtic, yes. Soon?
Jon Cox
24   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:51:20

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Mike you may, or may not have a point concerning Joe. I like to hear everyones point of view.

But, could you tell us why after the past 3/4 seasons when we've only started to play good footy around xmas time and then have to play catch up (which is a shite position to be in), at some point the timebomb will eventually explode.

A lot of us on here possibly think that the xmas thing will draw out and we will start to get it together and win games with 2 games to go till the end of the season.

As it is now,

UXB
Dennis Stevens
25   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:55:30

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For all I know Moyes may have a personal ambition to climb Mount Everest, However, I couldn't give a monkeys. My only concern is that he does a good job for Everton whilst we employ him.
Gary Rimmer
26   Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:55:58

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Maybe he cant belive his luck that he got £10mil for a player almost 30 who has had a misrabile 18 months. Not tomention that he was on 30-40 grand a week to much at EFC. Even the gooners made him take a pay cut. I think overall considering our current financial position the only bad news was not getting Yobo off the books. Lets deal in reality played 3 won 2. Onward Evertonians.
Shaun Brennan
27   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:14:13

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I'd like to know what guarentees where put in place for moyes to sign his big contract. Or what he was holding out for.
Nathan O'Hagan
28   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:10:38

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Since when do we listen to Liverpudlians for god's sake?
Moyes is clearly fiercely ambitious, and one day he will leave us to manage Scotland, Celtic or another club who represent a challenge he can't resist (for some, personal ambition extends beyond wealth, acclaim, or manging Man Utd). He will eave us when he feels he needs to or should do. Moyes, whilst far from perfect, is doing an incredible job under difficult circumstances. The fact he hasn't thrown in the towel is a mark of the man; anyone else would have walked by now, but he wants to see the job through as best he can. Arteta is gone, I'm fucking gutted, but good luck to him. But now that he is gone, lets concentrate on what we have, get behind our team and our brillian manager.
And the day i start listening to Reds' opinions about my club, I'll throw a fucking noose round my neck. COYB!!!!! IMWT!!!!!!!!
Jon Cox
29   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:11:14

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Gary, since Arteta is probably a millionaire then a pay cut for him was of no concequence. What nobody knows is what are the bonus payments will be, of his new club.

If I had millions in the bank and I was in the Autumn of my days and had a chance to play CL football then it would not be that big a question as to what I did next.

The irony of all that is I will probably see more this season of Arteta on tv than i've ever seen him playing for Everton since with work and geography etc I can't get to Goodison.

But thats life %
Michael Brien
30   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:22:38

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Liverpool fans - isn't it just 12 months or so when they were very concerned that their owners were leading them down the path to administration ? They were'nt so cocky then were they?

King Kenny ? Well it's easy when things are going your way but from past experience Dalglish show very little in the way of bottle when things are going against him e.g. Newcastle. When the going gets tough the tough the tough get going - or if you are Kenny Dalglish you head to the golf course.

If Liverpool were to finish 8th let's see what their average attendance would be. If they had some poor seasons I doubt if their fans would show the same loyalty that Evertonians show to their club.
Joey Brown
31   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:16:40

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Andy Crooks, I'll give you that, he's in no hurry to give up the cash he couldn't make as a player either. But I believe he's still trying and those points I made are true if not the whole story. Man U will match his wage when Fergie retires though, no worries there ha.
Jon Cox
32   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:26:36

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Nathan,

"And the day i start listening to Reds' opinions about my club, I'll throw a fucking noose round my neck."

And pray do tell, what reds would you be talking about?

COYB
Peter Mcauliffe
33   Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:51:54

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Moyes is very good at balancing kenwrights books, every transfer window he always let's more players go than what he brings in, good riddance to arteta last 18 months he's had 5.85 million in wages for what in return poor corners that always hit the first man, free kicks hit numerous walls. Sad to see beck ford go 8 goals more than anichebe , moyes fell out with him when he turned up late against reading and held a bad grudge against him since. It's a good job the window is shut he would have probably sold a few more he doesn't care as long as he gets his 3 million a year
Julie Naybour
34   Posted 01/09/2011 at 22:57:14

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Moyes is a very rare breed especially in today's world of foottball (or anywhere else for that matter)v i.e. a man of integrity and loyalty. I honestly believe he is staying because he feels it is a job unfinished. And I also believe he is desperately hoping in this sordid world where finance determines success, he is praying for an almighty dose of romance where the unthinkable happens and in a Roy of the Rovers world of dreams commitment, passion, and hard work brings overdue glory. Don't criticise him for sticking with us when all others would have walked long ago!
Andy Crooks
35   Posted 01/09/2011 at 23:41:49

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Julie. some fine purple prose but Moyes is here because he's paid a fortune and the "big job" is never coming his way. Everton is as good as it gets for him and he knows it. If only he'd walked before Kenwright bought him.I just can't see what some Evertonians see in him. I really can't.
Ian Campbell
36   Posted 02/09/2011 at 03:52:47

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Sunderland and Newcastle are as big as Everton... And that from an Everton fan???
Dave Wilson
37   Posted 02/09/2011 at 05:32:37

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We still have enough good players to win a cup or challenge for Europe . .but what about next season ?

If the current board remain -and I dont see a way out for them - we will need to sell more players and more still the season after that.

Having honoured his contract, Moyes will walk away with his stock still high, To the outside world he will have achieved the seemingly impossible.

The "new breed" ( the ex matchgoer who bizarrely thinks he has to give a reason for not going anymore) will have to find another reason.

The current matchgoers will become ex match goers and tell everyone how great it was in the Moyes days - Just as the current ex matchgoer deludes himself about the Bingham, Lee, Walker, Kendal (mk 2 +3) and Smith eras.

Unless there is a Regime change, Davey Boys predecessor will be offered the poison Chalice. Not a difficult job like Davey Boys, but an impossible one - and for less than half the wage

Davey Boy will walk away having achieved the ultimate ambition of a hired hand. He will still be much sort after, but more to the point . . . He`ll be fucken minted.
Stephen Kenny
38   Posted 02/09/2011 at 08:15:41

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Perhaps, much like Wenger he thinks he can do it 'his' way?

He may feel like he's good enough to get this squad into fourth place, the money would change everything and he could get us challenging for the tilte. Far-fetched at this point with these players but how do we know what he thinks.

He may also be the type of man who believes in honouring a contract, there' still a few people in football with morals.

I'd also take anything one of them fools says with a container of salt.

Considering most of them need directions to the ground and can't name the four sides of it! (Try it next time your in the boozer and one pipes up) I wouldn't worry too much about what they think.

In terms of ambition the funny thing is they don't even realise that their losing thiers'. It used to be "this is our year", now it's "were gonna get fourth" etc. Their standards have dropped and they haven't even seen it.

The Yanks have given them money to build a team. They have gone and built one. IMO the team they've built is nowhere near the best four in this league. They won't be spending money they've spent this year every year.
Andrew Laird
39   Posted 02/09/2011 at 09:20:46

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His ambition has been shown up for what it is with Moyes' unwavering support of not only Kenwright but the board. He gets paid a lot of money for .... not finishing below 17 other teams.

Why would he walk away from 65k a week when that is the only target he has to meet?!
Andy Codling
40   Posted 02/09/2011 at 09:32:22

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Who would walk away from 75 grand a week with no expectations or pressure involved in the job. If he succeeds he gets the praise from so called experts and if he fails its because he has no money, its a no brainer for Moyes he wins either way!!!!!!
Chris Butler
41   Posted 02/09/2011 at 11:00:45

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I totally agree. For too long DM and BK have been best buddies, which is great for them ? awful for Everton FC. There's no pressure on either of them to do their job better.

The useless Blue Union seem to forget that DM is a much to blame as BK. Why he just doesn't accept we have to sell players then state his price for them I don't know.

Arteta has been useless since his return from injury, everybody has noticed it except Moyes. I believe this was the reason for Pienaar's departure. Pienaar probably thought that it was unfair Arteta got offered £70k a week, depsite being shit, yet he who was our best player couldn't get a wage increase.

BK knows a long as Moyes supports him, the fans will be unwilling to go against him.

Joe McMahon
42   Posted 02/09/2011 at 12:12:32

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Mike Gaynes - I'm so sorry If I bore you. As i've been supporting this club for 35 years I think i'm entitled to question why we have kept a striker who has scored 7 premiership goals in over 90 games, when we sold for a small amount a striker who scored 8 premiership goals (not including the shot over the line against Villa) in 32 games and in those 32 many were 5 mins as sub?

Tony Marsh stopped posting as he got slagged by Moyes apologists such as yourself, now can't you see he's been right all the time!
Brendan McLaughlin
43   Posted 02/09/2011 at 12:02:02

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I remember hearing a story on the radio during the build up to the Everton/Arsenal FA cup final. One of the commentators said that he (back when Moyes was just plying his trade as a centre half) was one of the local reporters and they used to travel to the away games on the team bus. Apparently Moyes would sit with the journos and interrogate them about the press industry. When asked why the interest Moyes replied he intended to be a manager of a big club someday.
I don't think anyone so determined could be accused of any lack of personal ambition. As for why he is still here I also recall reading somewhere Moyes stating that loyalty was very important to him & lets not forget Moyes was well aware of the financial limitations when he signed his new contract a few years back
Norman Merrill
44   Posted 02/09/2011 at 14:25:39

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The build up to the Everton/Arsenal FA cup final ???
Brendan McLaughlin
45   Posted 02/09/2011 at 17:03:20

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LOL Norman...that's it for me no more trying to sneak a post when I'm at work...just too much pressure! How jammy was I but....the item dropped off the main page just after you posted!
Simon Smith
46   Posted 02/09/2011 at 21:29:34

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I'm sure someone out there must know the answer to this... can we still sign free agents? And more to the point are there any worth having do you think???

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