I was engaged in conversation with a couple of Liverpudlians last evening during the off/on Arteta saga, when they stated that if Moyes had any personal ambition he would have gone by now given our financial restraints. Much as I would have liked to disagree I couldn't, their opinions seemingly backed up during deadline day discussion on 5Live, when it was stated that, "If Arteta was sold behind his back, then what control did Moyes retain over team affairs?"
The debate continued along the lines that, since Moyes signed his last contract, he had been a lot less vocal about the constraints he's working under. Don't get me wrong here his tatics/substitutions can be extremely baffling but, if he were to resign, he'd be employed elsewhere in the Premier League with more financial clout.
It seems to me that he's accepted that we can't progress without a considerable influx of funds /takeover, which will not happen any time soon whilst Kenwright keeps a tight hold on his train set.
The sale of Arteta sends a clear message to the senior professionals: can anyone now see Fellaini extending his contract or Baines & Jagielka prepared to stay beyond January?
Jim Feeney, Posted 01/09/2011 at 16:15:01
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1 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:06:05
Do I think Moyes is happy about finances? No!
But sometimes people want to try to finish what they start and we were so close to the Champions League not long ago and if the City bubble ever busts or just Liverpool and Arsenal start tanking we could have an outside shot of it again.
Just because Moyes doesn't want to be handed anything he wants like City or United or Chelsea, doesn't mean he's unambitious, hell you could argue he is more for trying to stick with a difficult task.
Listen to the players they generally all seem pretty happy to be blues. And I'd guess so does Moyes.
2 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:10:45
If Fellaini doesn't want to extend his contract and/or Baines & Jagielka want away in January then let's get what we can for them & move on.
Everton is bigger than any one or ant three players
3 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:11:52
club any further without funds and like the sizeable majority believe Kenwright's continued control of the
club has stalled progress and we will slowly start to slip backwards if this remains the case. As for Moyes he has a couple of years left, Kenwright wants him to stay, would you seriously extend a contract when you know cant progress?
4 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:13:36
Wish i had the pills your taking mate.
5 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:25:35
He want's to win things and with each setback, it makes him more determined to prove his doubters wrong. maybe that's why he stays (that and a belting wage packet)
I suppose it's just easier to call him a coward though.
If it was me, I would have walked last night and switched the light off when I did.
Perhaps he thinks, like a lot on here, that Arteta is a spent force and that we have players to replace him. So losing Arteta, to him, may not be as devastating as some may think.
6 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:24:17
I cant see Moyes being a quitter, he doesnt seem the type to get going when the going gets tough. He's got us through tougher times thats for sure.
I dont understand what you mean by a lack of ambition, lets say he does get going, does he have to go to a top 4 club to show he has ambition were the team is already built for him and he can buy who he wants? Is their a top 4 club available?
How was Arteta sold behind his back? Arteta asked Moyes permission and Moyes being sensible allowed it to go through. He didnt want another Lescott type drama and Arteta has given loyal service to the club and Moyes. Moyes probably felt Arteta deserved his chance to play CL football.
7 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:22:54
He wasn't sold behind Moyes' back, he asked to leave.
8 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:31:05
He'll almost certainly pick and choose his next club.
He's loyal and he's also paid very well. But unless new owners come in and give him reasons to stay (ie. transfer funds and guarantees about not needing to sell 1st choice players) why would anyone sign up for another 12 years of this punishment?
It's a sorry mess we're in, and I refuse to accept that this situation was inevitable.
Fuck the board!
9 Posted 01/09/2011 at 17:34:43
Everton are a big fucking club. There aren't many clubs bigger then Everton.
Man Utd & Arsenal have long term managers not going anywhere soon.
Chelsea and Man City only want fashionable foreign managers.
Liverpool is of course out because it would be impossible to switch to a local rival.
Sunderland, Aston Villa and Newcastle are similar size clubs to Everton. Sure they have more money to spend but chances are Moyes already has a better team at Everton and can finish higher in the league with Everton.
And the rest, Bolton, Wolves, Stoke, Fulham, Wigan, etc... are all smaller clubs.
The only realistic option for Moyes is Spurs. They are big club with a good amount of money. And to be honest I think Moyes will eventually go to Spurs when Harry gets the England job.
So its not lack of ambition keeping Moyes at Everton. There just aren't many better jobs available to him.
10 Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:08:16
I just don't think we should doubt his ambition because he isn't taking the easy approach to winning. Had we won the Europa league and not gone out to Fiorentina and beat Chelsea in the Fa Cup, would he unambitious then?
I admire the man for sticking with us in what seriously is an impossible situation. I probably would have thrown in the towel by now.
11 Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:28:17
12 Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:16:17
On another note, I dont see how being a good manager can equate to ambition. A manager can be ambitious but tactically inept. Or a tactical genius, but so laid back he would have trouble standing up.
Over the past ten years Moyes has proved that he does not learn from his mistakes. Like, no plan B or when to put subs on, who to put on, square pegs in Rounds hole etc, the list gets bigger every season.
Like someone said about players and the club being bigger, it's the same with not just our manager but most other clubs managers.
To say Moyes would do great things if he went to a club with money to burn is a misnomer. It would be like the worst eratic and accident prone driver in the world with a zillion points on his license thinking that if he trades in his Nissan Micra for a top of the range Merc then suddenly over night, he gets the Nobel prize for driving skills and Highway code dedication.
I like the bloke as a bloke but he just seems to rigid in his thinking. He seems to like yes men (Round) but really should have a guy like Joe Jordan who knows about attack and what to do in the final third of the pitch.
With the new signings we can only wait and more to the point,
13 Posted 01/09/2011 at 18:53:28
14 Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:27:48
You might have fooled Michael but....
15 Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:27:31
I do think there have been times judging by his interviews that he is thinking "Here we fuckin go again another barrier" but then just gets on with it. How long he can put up with not only having no transfer budget and even worse having his better players asking to leave remains to be seen but we all know how hard it is to swallow when Stoke and the like are out spending us.
16 Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:39:19
Who's gonna score the Goals, Injury ravaged Saha? Victor (not scored a league goal for 2 years)Anichebie? Long season ahead, with some very dour grim football to watch! If Moyes had any Ambition he would have already resigned months ago.
17 Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:46:55
You mean any team above us and below us in the league......
Afterall we are the real deal when it comes to paupers.
18 Posted 01/09/2011 at 19:48:54
19 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:01:12
He runs the club - Kenwright asks HIM what to do.
Despite what critics like me think, to the multitude he is the Moyesiah.
He's cagey enough to know it's better here ambitious and untouchable than somewhere else ambitious and unemployed.
Dour he may be stupid I think not.
20 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:28:51
Of course you do... but you also think we'd be better off without Moyes. I can't wait to find out who you'd rather have.
21 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:38:51
22 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:39:29
23 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:45:50
24 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:51:20
But, could you tell us why after the past 3/4 seasons when we've only started to play good footy around xmas time and then have to play catch up (which is a shite position to be in), at some point the timebomb will eventually explode.
A lot of us on here possibly think that the xmas thing will draw out and we will start to get it together and win games with 2 games to go till the end of the season.
As it is now,
25 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:55:30
26 Posted 01/09/2011 at 20:55:58
27 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:14:13
28 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:10:38
Moyes is clearly fiercely ambitious, and one day he will leave us to manage Scotland, Celtic or another club who represent a challenge he can't resist (for some, personal ambition extends beyond wealth, acclaim, or manging Man Utd). He will eave us when he feels he needs to or should do. Moyes, whilst far from perfect, is doing an incredible job under difficult circumstances. The fact he hasn't thrown in the towel is a mark of the man; anyone else would have walked by now, but he wants to see the job through as best he can. Arteta is gone, I'm fucking gutted, but good luck to him. But now that he is gone, lets concentrate on what we have, get behind our team and our brillian manager.
And the day i start listening to Reds' opinions about my club, I'll throw a fucking noose round my neck. COYB!!!!! IMWT!!!!!!!!
29 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:11:14
If I had millions in the bank and I was in the Autumn of my days and had a chance to play CL football then it would not be that big a question as to what I did next.
The irony of all that is I will probably see more this season of Arteta on tv than i've ever seen him playing for Everton since with work and geography etc I can't get to Goodison.
But thats life %
30 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:22:38
King Kenny ? Well it's easy when things are going your way but from past experience Dalglish show very little in the way of bottle when things are going against him e.g. Newcastle. When the going gets tough the tough the tough get going - or if you are Kenny Dalglish you head to the golf course.
If Liverpool were to finish 8th let's see what their average attendance would be. If they had some poor seasons I doubt if their fans would show the same loyalty that Evertonians show to their club.
31 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:16:40
32 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:26:36
"And the day i start listening to Reds' opinions about my club, I'll throw a fucking noose round my neck."
And pray do tell, what reds would you be talking about?
33 Posted 01/09/2011 at 21:51:54
34 Posted 01/09/2011 at 22:57:14
35 Posted 01/09/2011 at 23:41:49
36 Posted 02/09/2011 at 03:52:47
37 Posted 02/09/2011 at 05:32:37
If the current board remain -and I dont see a way out for them - we will need to sell more players and more still the season after that.
Having honoured his contract, Moyes will walk away with his stock still high, To the outside world he will have achieved the seemingly impossible.
The "new breed" ( the ex matchgoer who bizarrely thinks he has to give a reason for not going anymore) will have to find another reason.
The current matchgoers will become ex match goers and tell everyone how great it was in the Moyes days - Just as the current ex matchgoer deludes himself about the Bingham, Lee, Walker, Kendal (mk 2 +3) and Smith eras.
Unless there is a Regime change, Davey Boys predecessor will be offered the poison Chalice. Not a difficult job like Davey Boys, but an impossible one - and for less than half the wage
Davey Boy will walk away having achieved the ultimate ambition of a hired hand. He will still be much sort after, but more to the point . . . He`ll be fucken minted.
38 Posted 02/09/2011 at 08:15:41
He may feel like he's good enough to get this squad into fourth place, the money would change everything and he could get us challenging for the tilte. Far-fetched at this point with these players but how do we know what he thinks.
He may also be the type of man who believes in honouring a contract, there' still a few people in football with morals.
I'd also take anything one of them fools says with a container of salt.
Considering most of them need directions to the ground and can't name the four sides of it! (Try it next time your in the boozer and one pipes up) I wouldn't worry too much about what they think.
In terms of ambition the funny thing is they don't even realise that their losing thiers'. It used to be "this is our year", now it's "were gonna get fourth" etc. Their standards have dropped and they haven't even seen it.
The Yanks have given them money to build a team. They have gone and built one. IMO the team they've built is nowhere near the best four in this league. They won't be spending money they've spent this year every year.
39 Posted 02/09/2011 at 09:20:46
Why would he walk away from 65k a week when that is the only target he has to meet?!
40 Posted 02/09/2011 at 09:32:22
41 Posted 02/09/2011 at 11:00:45
The useless Blue Union seem to forget that DM is a much to blame as BK. Why he just doesn't accept we have to sell players then state his price for them I don't know.
Arteta has been useless since his return from injury, everybody has noticed it except Moyes. I believe this was the reason for Pienaar's departure. Pienaar probably thought that it was unfair Arteta got offered £70k a week, depsite being shit, yet he who was our best player couldn't get a wage increase.
BK knows a long as Moyes supports him, the fans will be unwilling to go against him.
42 Posted 02/09/2011 at 12:12:32
Tony Marsh stopped posting as he got slagged by Moyes apologists such as yourself, now can't you see he's been right all the time!
43 Posted 02/09/2011 at 12:02:02
I don't think anyone so determined could be accused of any lack of personal ambition. As for why he is still here I also recall reading somewhere Moyes stating that loyalty was very important to him & lets not forget Moyes was well aware of the financial limitations when he signed his new contract a few years back
44 Posted 02/09/2011 at 14:25:39
45 Posted 02/09/2011 at 17:03:20
46 Posted 02/09/2011 at 21:29:34
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