Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Played Well - Big Mistake!

 86 Comments: First  |  Last

This is what David Moyes said after the match as quoted by 'Sporting Life': "If we are expecting a 19-year-old boy from Greece and a couple of free transfers to come on and make a difference then people have to change their expectations."

I don't quite understand that. Isn't that precisely what happened? Didn't Vellios, Drenthe and Stracqualursi come on and pull three points out of a game that was staggering towards a draw? Or was I watching a different match?

Shouldn't that impressive, though brief display at least put them in contention for a starting place? Or are they like Ross Barkley, going to be benched as a reward for playing well? I just don't get it. Someone explain it to me. And incidentally, I thought they were both season loans, not free transfers.
Peter Fearon, Liverpool     Posted 17/09/2011 at 21:21:08

back Return to the Mail Bag  :  Add your Comments back

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Barrry Gorst
1   Posted 18/09/2011 at 03:12:14

Report abuse

Drenthe, Drenthe, Drenthe...
If he continues to score,
we might just finish higher than tenth!!!
Derek Thomas
2   Posted 18/09/2011 at 03:32:14

Report abuse

I can explain it, Moyes is an over-hyped, over-paid, over-cautious Coach.

All I can hope is that Mancini left before our Meastro stumbled upon his masterplan and actually put some attackers on.
David Barks
3   Posted 18/09/2011 at 03:58:19

Report abuse

Yep, all of the national media, managers around the league, former players, they're all wrong in their opinion and a few dozen on toffeeweb are correct that Moyes is shite. That's it, you nailed it. The thousands of Evertonians who like him, the overwhelming majority of pundits and just about every manager who has ever spoken about him, they're all wrong and you're right.
Gerry Morrison
4   Posted 18/09/2011 at 04:44:42

Report abuse

Yes David, of course they are right. In addition to being brilliant football tacticians, the dozen or so you refer to are also renowned architects, sports psychologists, hedge fund managers and experts in International mergers and acquisitions. Hardly a day goes by without one of them sharing their words of wisdom. Stick around on Toffeeweb and educate yourself.
Steven Pendleton
5   Posted 18/09/2011 at 04:56:30

Report abuse

We got out of jail yesterday. The result simply papered over the cracks of his dire, boring, defensive, unimaginative and repetitive game plan.

Don't know why Mancini wasted the trip to come watch us. Everyone knows Moyes' boring as shit strategy. He would've been better off just rocking up around the 70th minute of the game as this is the only time when something may change. Come to think of it, I might just watch us from the 70th minute onwards as well.

And also, his words don't inspire the group with confidence. Why can't he come out and say he was rapped with Velios and Drenthe's goal. If I was Fellaini reading the dire and negative shit coming from Moyes' mouth about our current campaign, I would contemplate looking elsewhere where the future is brighter as well.
Kevin Hudson
6   Posted 18/09/2011 at 07:25:40

Report abuse

It's SCREAMINGLY obvious that he's employing reverse-psychology.

He's been lowering expectations for a reason. Behind closed doors - different animal. He's using the media cleverly, as always.
Dave Randles
7   Posted 18/09/2011 at 07:41:20

Report abuse

Gerry # 4. Actually spat my cornflakes out. Quality!
Conor Feeney
8   Posted 18/09/2011 at 08:14:15

Report abuse

David (no. 3), you're a brave man coming on here saying positive things about Moyes. The anti Moyes crew devour any conservative quote for the media to use it as evidence against him. They seem to fail to see that what he says in the dressing room is a tad more important to the quotes he gives to the media. Are they telling me he hasn't given Velios and Drenthe a pat on the back for two really well taken goals y'day ?

Sad really.
Paul Olsen
9   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:07:54

Report abuse

#6 hope so
Derek Thomas
10   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:12:48

Report abuse

David Barks #3....nail, head.

Can you get more than 1 in 20 to say that what ever he is or isn't, that Moyes is not cautious.. he defines the word in football terms.

Won anything in 10 years? no.

Safe pair of hands - steadied the ship, etc etc...nothing adventurous? yes.

Poor plan A, no plan B.

Keep it tight and pinch one.

451, 460.

Sudden death / must win / cup ties. you're havin a laff.

No, I stick by my post, over paid?? of course he is, they all are when you talk 60K per WEEK.

Over Hyped? see won nothing.

Over cautious, fuckin right! no forwards Vs Wigan...call that adventurous, yeah right.

next.
Ryan Holroyd
11   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:36:32

Report abuse

David Barks

Stay on script mate.

Moyes is shite, he is tatically shite, all his players hate him, he's negative, he doesn't play or like youngsters, he gets paid too much has under achieved at Everton, we should be winning the league and finishing above City and United, he only plays for draws, every single comment he makes needs to be scrutinised and taken out of context.
Dave Roberts
12   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:37:45

Report abuse

Keep it tight and pinch one?

Pinched 3 yesterday!
Ian Tunstead
13   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:44:07

Report abuse

Peter how is Barkley supposed to get a game, we only have 3 subs to use, and they all contributed to a goal when they came on so you cant complain that Barkley didnt get on. It is a squad game, every one will get their chance.
Peter Hall
14   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:49:40

Report abuse

I 'm a 90% Moyes fan, I admire his work but I don't think he walks on water.

I heard the comment on Sky and I thought it was strange - why not celebrate what the lads did without getting carried away? But no, he makes this self-protective remark, = "I've got f*** all to work with here you know, just scraps of players."

I hope it's a meaningless one-off and he's not losing the plot and getting self-justifying. If he is, the 90% will go down fast.
Wayne Smyth
15   Posted 18/09/2011 at 08:58:56

Report abuse

Its not just a handful of posters here who are unhappy with the long-term negativity with Moyes team selections & tactics. Sounded like many thousands were unhappy at Goodison yesterday before the subs came on and we started playing with a far more balanced team.

Had we not got the two late goals yesterday, there'd be a lot more of a shit storm from many fans due to the largely toothless performance against a very poor Wigan side.

However some fans are fickle, and change their opinions from week to week based on results. I fall into another category of fans who believe that while Moyes is doing a good job, he is overly negative in his outlook.

At the end of the 90 minutes I'll take a shit performance and 3 points over fancy attacking football and points lost(e.g. Arsenal). However its frustrating as hell to stand by and watch the effects of our managers faults on our club:

1) Buying players then consistently playing them out of position and destroying their confidence.
2) Publicly alienating players the club has invested millions of pounds in, forcing the club to sell them for a pittance.
3) Failing to put out a properly balanced team, resulting in disjointed attacking football, no movement and constant sideways/backwards passing.

Part of being a football fan is wanting the best for your club. We could do a lot worse than Moyes, but I also think that the guy is far too stubborn for his own - and our - good.
Ian Tunstead
16   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:56:57

Report abuse

Haha where is the guy who was criticising Moyes about his substitutions last week something along the lines that Moyes subtitutions were not inspiring and never change games?

Well all 3 of his substitutions came on and contributed to a goal, but i suppose i should be used to that kind of shite that gets spouted on here.
John Ford
17   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:00:44

Report abuse

Did someone say we sould be finishing above city and united? Yeh right..

As for winning things, well unfortunately noone does except the money elite so to judge moyes against that is pointless, depressing though that is.

And why do people scrutinise every Moyes word seemingly to find a new angle to criticise. Tiresome.

Moyes got it spot on yesterday. He brought two new players on both of whom scored, but to be honest we didnt really look any better, and were were lethargic throughput the second half. The problem is quality within the squad, something we all know about.

For what its worth this is what Moyes said after the game (BBC website. He is spot on, again:

"I thought we played well in the first half but ran out of ideas. We made some changes and for periods it didn't look like it would work but today it did.

"The last goal is an old fashioned kick up the pitch but you take any goal as they are hard to come by and Wigan were pressing.

"All I was thinking about today was the three points. I think we deserved it but we can play better."
Guy Hastings
18   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:11:28

Report abuse

At the start of last season, what weren't we going to do? Result? Total bollocks for the first three months.
Wayne Smyth
19   Posted 18/09/2011 at 09:58:58

Report abuse

Peter (#14), thats an interesting thought on Moyes comments. It could well be arse-covering, because quite clearly those 3 players(especially Drenthe and Vellios) did change the game for us.

Personally I couldn't care less what Moyes says in public. What I want is for him to coach and motivate our team so that they play with confidence when it matters. Problem is, there is often very little evidence of confidence in our play.

How many times have we taken a 1 goal lead against an inferior side then took our foot of the pedal and watched them come back into it? Sides with confidence and belief keep going and get more goals.
Paul Johnson
20   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:12:58

Report abuse

David #3 - Around 6000 of our supporters have voted with their feet this season, so its not just " a few dozen on TW". The football we have to endure is pure shite and if you are happy with the managers tactics then I really pity you - 4-6-0 against Wigan FFS - we all deserve better.
Chad Schofield
21   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:06:12

Report abuse

Good shout Wayne.
As much as there can be a baying mob waiting for anything negative to pounce on, the "there's no problem except negative fans" lot also jump on anyone who dares to criticize anything. It was a result that flattered us. Moyes' substitutions made a difference because the starting lineup consisted of no recognised forwards.

Someone sugested that Cahill is a striker because our first goal came from his header... Presumably they think Jags is a striker because he scored that goal.

Rugby wise England have an 100% record... That doesn't mean that they have been faultless. We have 7pts, the same as the RS... So should we all just be praising the Lord?

Chad Schofield
22   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:06:12

Report abuse

Good shout Wayne.
As much as there can be a baying mob waiting for anything negative to pounce on, the "there's no problem except negative fans" lot also jump on anyone who dares to criticize anything. It was a result that flattered us. Moyes' substitutions made a difference because the starting lineup consisted of no recognised forwards.

Someone sugested that Cahill is a striker because our first goal came from his header... Presumably they think Jags is a striker because he scored that goal.

Rugby wise England have an 100% record... That doesn't mean that they have been faultless. We have 7pts, the same as the RS... So should we all just be praising the Lord?

Mike Allison
23   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:29:25

Report abuse

"Well all 3 of his substitutions came on and contributed to a goal"

Doesn't that just show he got his original selection wrong?! :-D
Kevin Hudson
24   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:24:08

Report abuse

It's a results business.

5 games - 3 wins - 1 draw - 1 defeat.

Moyes critics can eat their words.
Andrew Clare
25   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:05:54

Report abuse

Life is all about having a 'positive approach'.
To me Moyes doesn't have a positive approach.
After 70 minutes he did what any other manager would have done, throw on three forwards and hope for a goal.
He rarely starts in a positive fashion.
Against most teams he plays with one striker.
He does have a good 'eye' for a player with one or two exceptions. I believe with the right tactics our team would be formidable opposition against anyone in the Premier league- unfortunately with Moyes it is not going to happen.
As our expectations have been downgraded so it seems many of us now are quite happy to accept mediocrity, doesn't anyone remember the stature of this club? It saddens me to watch us just fade away.
Moyes should be talking big getting the club, the players and the fans inspired. Instead we have the dour approach.
COYB!!!!!!
Kevin Hudson
26   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:35:28

Report abuse

No, Mike it doesn't.

There's no way you can prove that had the subs started,they would have positively influenced the game. We can prove they impacted the game when they came on.

Therefore, Moyes got it right. The tactical substitutions worked.
John Ford
27   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:51:51

Report abuse

Andrew , how can you say he doesnt start in a positive fashion, we battered Wigan in the first half. Id like to see Tim replaced up front now though.
James Martin
28   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:49:08

Report abuse

I thought his comments were quite a refreshing break from the norm. I always thought Moyes was guilty of praising his players too much for sub standard perfromaces. Since Arteta has left he has been talking about building a new team and seems to have regained a bit of his old hard edge. Instead of publicly lauding Vellios for his goal he chastised him and the other substitutes and demanded better of them. Good to see Moyes back with a bit of fire in his belly.

We won the game, Wigan were always going to be difficult because common to popular belief we don't have a divine right to win every game, oter teams in this league are good and will make it difficult for us to play easy on the eye football every game of the season.

If Moyes starts with Vellios and Strac and they are blunted by Wigan's fresh defense who does he then bring off the bench when they tire? Cahill and Osman? They're not going to affect any tiring defence. The substitutions worked well and we won the game, Moyes deserves a bit of credit for this one for once.

Paul Gladwell
29   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:48:56

Report abuse

I fear the worst over the next month or so after watching that yesterday, we have a better points tally than usual and we will need it.
I hope I am wrong but we just seem lacking in strength and I can see City and Co taking us the cleaners, dont be suprised to see Neville in midfield next week.
Robbie Muldoon
30   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:50:11

Report abuse

# 3 David Barks said: Yep, all of the national media, managers around the league, former players, they're all wrong in their opinion and a few dozen on Toffeeweb are correct that Moyes is shite. That's it, you nailed it. The thousands of Evertonians who like him, the overwhelming majority of pundits and just about every manager who has ever spoken about him, they're all wrong and you're right.

I'd respect the opionion of a born and bred Evertonian who has followed the club closely all their lives over some ex-player pundit being paid to offer an opinion infront of the cameras on a club he doesn't support.

I also find the high regard Moyes is held in by the 'media' as very patronising to our club. The common consensus amongst these types seems to be, well done David Moyes for keeping Everton away from relegation. People are stuck in the 90s when Sky started up and the teams were very shite!

I was very unhappy with the starting eleven yesterday, mainly because there was no Barkley and no striker on the pitch (a disgrace). I was surprised to hear we had won 3-1 after only being able to watch the first half.

I felt a bit of humble pie was needed for myself... but then I seen Moyes post match comments about how good we were first half, the starting 11, and now this about the subs.

I think he is a solid coach, very disciplined and will always get the team working hard. But his tactics, team selections and arrogance disgust me these days and I really find it hard to like him these days.

That's a proper opinion from a proper Evertonian, stick your media pundits up your arse.
Ian Tunstead
31   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:54:48

Report abuse

No Mike it doesn't. If he started with the two loan signings and they ran out of gas we might not have come away with the points. Its a squad game played over 90 mins and about taking points. Moyes utilised his squad perfectly by throwing on his attackers against the tired legs of the Wigan defence and it worked.

He cant win on here, last week it was a good performance but we didnt get the result and so his substitutions were criticised, this week not so good a performance but his subs paid off but he is still criticised. We won, stop moaning, it was so obvious what was going to happen. I said to my girlfriend at half time that Moyes would bring on his 3 attacking players around 60-70 mins and we would win 3-1, i bet Moyes was confident of the same too..
Seamus McCrudden
32   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:04:35

Report abuse

John,
I don't know about battering them in the first half, but we certainly dominated possession... and in the second half come to think of it... but most of the possession was in the defence and midfield. I think Moyes is doing his usual, bringing in new players and introducing them fairly slowly, give it a few more games and Drenthe & Straq will start.

I think we played fairly poorly yesterday, but the fact is we still got the three points with which you have to be happy about. The point Andrew is making is that starting with only Tim up front is not a positive formation, one striker? ? and he really isn't a striker is he?

John Gee
33   Posted 18/09/2011 at 10:37:56

Report abuse

Andrew #25, you forgot to say Nil Satis.

Peter (OP), have a day off.

We won 3-1. Moyes said that the performance levels could improve. He made good substitutions that resulted in goals and will give confidence to the players involved and he used his post match press interviews to keep the egos of those involved grounded. He didn't get carried away and was magnanimous in victory. He also refused to critisize a player who flounced out after not making the squad, even going as far as saying he wants his players upset at not playing.

Aside from all that, this whole Kenright out, sack Moyes bullshit has to stop. Wake up and see that there are some people who are trying to make a name for themselves by taking aim at easy, high profile targets. If those fucking dickheads from the blue union et al. want to make a name for themselves then they should sing "my way" on the X-factor and stop trying to rip our club apart. For all the faults and lementable state of our finances the last thing we need as a club is for the fans to start turning on each other and the club.

3-1, well done boys.

Blue Union, if you crave attention that much then whip out your cocks, jump on the bar and mime along to YMCA. But stay the fuck away from our club.
Phil Bellis
34   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:11:12

Report abuse

Whether Moyes' subs were brilliant or forced on him by the inablity of the players he chose to start with, the fact remains that he deployed an away to Man Utd line-up at home to Wigan
And if you were there, you know how dreadful and limited Wigan were; this should not have been a game where the philosophy was "right...we start with a point"

The ball went up - it came straight back; no-one to hold it up, no movenent, Tim shackled by the 2 big crocks in defence who had nobody else to bother about
You didn't need an FA caching badge to see the difference when we had 2 forwards on
Phil Bellis
35   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:27:29

Report abuse

My apologies to the 2 Wigan grocks
Wayne Smyth
36   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:13:47

Report abuse

While we do have 7 points from 4 games, don't forget we've played:

Blackburn
Wigan
Villa and
QPR.

3 of those games have been at home too, so 7 pts and some very dodgy performances isn't such a great return after all, especially considering we robbed Blackburn blind.

Our next 6 league games include Man U and RS at home, and Citeh, barcodes and Chelsea away, I think we may pick up more points than some people think, because Moyes tactics are more suited to absorbing pressure and nicking a goal, rather than breaking sides down, but after that little run in, we'll be better placed to judge just how well we're doing.
Kevin Hudson
37   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:27:41

Report abuse

Supposing we started with the two brand-new forwards and it didn't work - with a numerically weakened midfield, what then?

Folks would have found cause to complain. Again.

Just enjoy the 3 points, moaners.
Simon Harris
38   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:39:00

Report abuse

John Gee, why don't you have a day off and just enjoy the win, rather than using it as an opportunity to slag off fellow blues.
Joe McMahon
39   Posted 18/09/2011 at 11:56:45

Report abuse

Derek Thomas - Have you looked Negative in the dictionary? It says:
Negative: to employ formations such as 4 5 1, and 4 6 0 in football matches. Also see tactics away at bottom of the table West Ham in December 2010.
Paul Johnson
40   Posted 18/09/2011 at 12:13:44

Report abuse

John Gee. " last thing we need as a club is for the fans to start turning on each other and the club".
Preceded by a load of abuse about "Blue Union Dickheads". Its people like you who are part of the problem, the BU want better for our club and I do too. For me that includes getting rid of Bullshit Billy and his dour mate dithering Dave as they have slowly squeezed the life out of this once great footballing institution.
Phil Bellis
41   Posted 18/09/2011 at 12:24:15

Report abuse

Well Kevin (34), do you really think a numerically weakened midfield (by 1) couldn't cope at home with Wigan? Jesus, how low are your expectations of the modern Everton
And, if we were seriously being over-run, how about making a tactical substitution. Dead easy this management lark
James Morgan
42   Posted 18/09/2011 at 12:46:26

Report abuse

John Gee what a tool.

As for going forward, I think we need to start with Drenthe over Bily, Vellios over Osman with Cahill behind and I'd like to see Barkley in for Rodwell to give us that guile and drive forward. Although I think Rodwell is starting to get back on form I don't think he is the type of player to pick up the ball, get his head down and run at people.

Kevin Hudson
43   Posted 18/09/2011 at 12:53:14

Report abuse

Wrong Phil,

It's not unusual in the modern game for teams to deploy 5 man midfields. It's nothing to do with low expectations either - Man.Utd (no less) have deployed a 4-2-3-1 on several occasions.

It's also (sadly) not unusual for people like you to knit-pick Moyes when his side wins, rendering your irrelevant argument theoretical at best.
Micheal Lynch
44   Posted 18/09/2011 at 12:37:23

Report abuse

I for one am not a Moyes hatter but far from his biggest fan . He believes in safety in numbers and getting as many behind the ball as possible . Thats his approach to football . Play a workhorse up front who will hold up the ball and the reat join in. Protection is the number one rule and hope to nick one . Now against the likes of City, United Liverpool i can live with this . They contain players who have the ability to open us up if we play an attacking style which we basically dont have the quality these teams have to do this . So i can understand that the likes of Hibbert need protection so drop of and protect is fine .
However against the likes of Wigan to not set uo from the word go with 2 strikers and an attacking formation is criminal. I would have played Barkly on the left yesterday with Fellani and Ossie in the centre and Coleman on the right . Vellios up front with Cahill . Im not saying Rodwell is terrible at the moment but for me the other 4 offer more and he is an adequate replacement if they not performing ala fellani yesterday . I taught Barkly was immense against Q.P.R. and has performed adequatly in his othetr outings . But what does Moyes do drop him and not give him a run is beyond my comprehension .
Yesterdays result and the blackburn win have painted over alot of cracks.
Tactically David Moyes is safe . Maybe with a transfer budget and better quality players he might be different. Who knows. At the moment he is what he is and in fairness it is a results game and under him i dont feel we will ever go down but will we achieve something great i doubt it .
Brian Keating
45   Posted 18/09/2011 at 13:32:49

Report abuse

Moyes always does this, negative comment after a win. He's trying to lower expectations, he's right too.

Was I watching a different match to some people yesterday? We battered Wigan in the first half and ran out of ideas, excellent substitutions won the game for us. Nothing to complain about at all.

I was annoyed though in the 2nd half when we were keeping possession really well and the crowd started getting on the teams back to get it forward quicker. That leads to hoofball.
Gavin Ramejkis
46   Posted 18/09/2011 at 13:49:19

Report abuse

Its called having an opinions ladies, if you we were all in the pub we'd still be having this debate its part of what football is about, my own view of the game yesterday is similar to some above, we'd played ok but no great shakes against a reasonable passing Wigan who were shite in the last third, to me having Cahill up front lent itself to a bit to much hoofball from Jags and Howard (does he ever throw the ball?

I was confused that Barkley didnt replace Rodwell who did nothing in my eyes yesterday other than the usual crab, in the end the subs worked but put your hand on your heart and tell me if they hadn't would you honestly have come from the game feeling a draw was the right result?
Daniel A Johnson
47   Posted 18/09/2011 at 13:55:12

Report abuse

I hate Moyes and heres why, I just wish Moyes would do 3 things

1. Start a match intending to win it e.g. STrikers on the pitch esp against teams like WIgan and QPR.

2. Play players in their natural/best positions when he can.

3. STop relying on Cahill hes been out of sorts for nearly a season now.
Guy Wilkinson
48   Posted 18/09/2011 at 14:47:20

Report abuse

John Gee - bizarre homoerotic post.

Yesterday was not great, 3-1 flattered us. Barclay should be a starter and we need a striker on the pitch for 90mins
Phil Bellis
49   Posted 18/09/2011 at 16:01:46

Report abuse

Oh am I Kevin? - and fancy my not knowing some teams play 5 in the middle; well I never!
And, please, less of the "people like you" - a bit condescending, don't you think?

If you think making what I thought was a valid point about setting up your team to cater for the quality of the oppositiony was nit-picking Moyes, then don't ever read a Tony Marsh post - you'd faint away

Anyway, let's both nip down the pub this evening and wind up the kopites
Kevin Hudson
50   Posted 18/09/2011 at 16:27:12

Report abuse

I'll drink to that, Phil.
Mike Gaynes
51   Posted 18/09/2011 at 16:28:05

Report abuse

#44... If that isn't classic Daniel A. Johnson, I don't know what is. There's negative, there's deadly, and then there's Daniel A.

Moyes isn't trying to win. Got it.

He deliberately plays his players out of position, presumably just to mess with their minds. You bet.

And Tim Cahill, who has assisted on two goals in the last two games, is out of sorts and shouldn't be relied upon. Righto.

This measures up with some of your classics yesterday in the live forum. If I hadn't been watching the game, I would have assumed we were down 4-0.
Mike Gaynes
52   Posted 18/09/2011 at 16:28:05

Report abuse

#44... If that isn't classic Daniel A. Johnson, I don't know what is. There's negative, there's deadly, and then there's Daniel A.

Moyes isn't trying to win. Got it.

He deliberately plays his players out of position, presumably just to mess with their minds. You bet.

And Tim Cahill, who has assisted on two goals in the last two games, is out of sorts and shouldn't be relied upon. Righto.

This measures up with some of your classics yesterday in the live forum. If I hadn't been watching the game, I would have assumed we were down 4-0.
Tom Bowers
53   Posted 18/09/2011 at 16:46:12

Report abuse

Moyes is becoming an enigma.
His thinking belies logic when he selects his starting eleven without a striker for the second week running. Yes we won in the end but not before his hand was forced after struggling against a poor Wigan team.
We will be playing the big boys pretty soon and I hope to God he gets over his insanity and starts playing the new blood from the start.
The old brigade are just that and although being experienced there is no substitute for speed and determination of younger guys. Just look at Manure.
Barkaly should be in for Osman, Drenthe in for Bileyletdinov and Velios/Straqualursi in for Cahill.(Sorry Timmie but your best days have passed and anyway your not an out and out striker). Sidebar--Yaks can still score in the Prem. and where is King Louis?
James Stewart
54   Posted 18/09/2011 at 17:13:40

Report abuse

@5 spot on.

A win and all the Moyes apologists are out in force.
Moyes's tactics were way off until the subs.

Why wait so long to give vellios a go when your drawing against a shit team at home? He obviously has talent but its a big ask to keep asking people to come on with 5-10mins to go and win the game for you.

Then we get his usual dour play it down interview after. Talk about inspiring the people who just won you the game!
John Gee
55   Posted 18/09/2011 at 16:53:54

Report abuse

Simon #35, I don't believe that they are fellow blues. I believe that they took the wrong turn outside spurs' ground and brought their complaining ways up the M1.

James Organ #39, thanks for that, do I get to call you a c*** now?

Guy #45, "Homoerotic"? Really? Try and keep your subconscious under control fella.


The blue union taping that meeting was a very underhand thing to do and credit to Kenwright for the way he handled it. Can you imagine how Ken Bates would have dealt with them? Honestly, this sniping from the sidelines is starting to reflect badly on the snipers and history is not goning to judge them kindly. This isn't a tyrant king in an ivory tower that they're trying to destroy. It's a business man and Evertonian who may well be out of his depth. It's moaning fans not a revolution.
I disagree with a lot of what's happening at the club but FFS is every day on here going to be about demonising two men?
Kevin Hudson
56   Posted 18/09/2011 at 17:12:24

Report abuse

Chris Downie,

It really doesn't wash when you google ToffeeWeb, click on this article, read (at least some) of the comments, then decide to contribute yourself with a feigned:

"Dont you lot have a life?????"
Kevin Hudson
57   Posted 18/09/2011 at 17:21:04

Report abuse

Let's all give James Stewart a big hand for employing ToffeeWeb's laziest line of attack,

A win and the Moyes haters are also out in force.

5 games - 3 wins - 1 unlucky draw - 1 flukey defeat. In a results business.

Moyes' tactics included selecting those subs who theoretically coud, and actually did, wrap up the game for us. Naturally you won't give him credit for this.

The reason he has "waited so long to give Velios a go," is because the kid's only made 4 appearances prior to yesterday, and has showen a significant rawness in the last 2 games alone. Promise - certainly, but promise that needs to develop gradually. This is screamingly obvious.

Regarding his post-match interview: He's simply playing the media game. Dressing room - different animal.

You remind me of my Manc mate who complained to me about his team's defending after the 8-2 mauling of Arsenal.
Billy Bradshaw
58   Posted 18/09/2011 at 18:05:45

Report abuse

Agree with most of what you have said Tim # 51 , but the yak was licky yesterday and is slower than osman !
Tony Gee
59   Posted 18/09/2011 at 18:43:48

Report abuse

licky eh...
Col Noon
60   Posted 18/09/2011 at 18:54:03

Report abuse

James Morgan #39

"John Gee what a tool"

Beat me to it. Calling fellow blues who are genuinley conerned of the future of the club under the current regime "dickheads" then go on to say "the last thing we need as a club is for the fans to start turning on each other and the club."

Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Col Noon
61   Posted 18/09/2011 at 18:54:03

Report abuse

James Morgan #39

"John Gee what a tool"

Beat me to it. Calling fellow blues who are genuinley conerned of the future of the club under the current regime "dickheads" then go on to say "the last thing we need as a club is for the fans to start turning on each other and the club."

Hypocrisy of the highest order.
David Price
62   Posted 18/09/2011 at 19:20:39

Report abuse

We played better last week against Villa, so can understand Moyes picking the same side. Personally i expected Drenthe on instead of Bily. Drenthe musn't be ready for 90 minutes so i trust Moyes on that.
Osman didn't play well so before the substitutions i would have liked Bily in the centre and Osman left for 10-15 mins. I'm sure Bily would be more danergous there but we'll never find out at this rate.
The two strikers, Vellios and Denis, potentially looks good for the season.
Hibbert was superb. The block at 2-1 was outstanding.
For next week, hopefully Drenthe can start, will Moyes start with Vellios?
Probably not, Rodwell needs to stay in. The lad needs games and will come good.
Hell of a task against City but we have something to build on.
Footnote, the 14 players used against a decent Wigan side in total cost around £30m. 5m less than the lump Caroll alone.
Moyes is fucking amazing !!
Jon Cox
63   Posted 18/09/2011 at 17:59:13

Report abuse

Kev,

Just been reading some of your posts with interest. I may be wrong but they seem to have a modicum of moral self righteous indignation to them. It's almost like your having a go at people just because their view differs from yours. like I say could be wrong on that.

But the bits I enjoyed are were you say,stuff like,

" It's SCREAMINGLY obvious that he's employing reverse-psychology.

He's been lowering expectations for a reason. Behind closed doors - different animal. He's using the media cleverly, as always." and then,

"There's no way you can prove that had the subs started,they would have positively influenced the game. We can prove they impacted the game when they came on."

So, on the one hand, the people on the side of the argument that says we should have started the game in a positive fashion and used our attackers from the outset, are wrong because we cant prove it would have won us the game,

You then say that because we're not happy about the quote that Moyes gave in the OP we should bow down to the fact that Moyes says the complete opposite "Behind closed doors"

So, the "Reverse psychology" has to be construde as mere conjecture on your part unless of course you can prove you were having a good old earwig behind said closed doors.

Last quote,

"It's a results business.

5 games - 3 wins - 1 draw - 1 defeat.

Moyes critics can eat their words."

Well Kev, lets see what the score is after "Played 9 games" After the Blackburn game, the Villa game and yesterdays helping of mediocre football witnessed by me, a lot of people on here and not forgeting the odd thousands of fans who voted with their feet, if we carry on playing that type of turgid stale football from the kick off, then the eating of words just may come back to haunt you once the next four games have come to fruition.

To finish, If people like me are called "Moaners" then for people like you all I ask is whats the Latin for

Only the second best will do.

Nothing personal Kev, in fact room for one more in the pub taking the piss out of kopites? ;-)
Ciarán McGlone
64   Posted 18/09/2011 at 20:18:05

Report abuse

The article has a point. Moyes didn't pick our best eleven in the most appropriate positions. Our football is suffering because of this continuous flaw.

To suggest we can't discuss the game critically because we won, is garbage.
Kevin Hudson
65   Posted 18/09/2011 at 20:16:25

Report abuse

I think I'd rather be sat in the pub taking the piss out of YOU, Jon,

As I particularly enjoyed you saying it's: "Nothing personal," but my posts have "a moral self righteous indignation to them."

My essential point is that some people will always find room to complain, regardless of the victory.

Speculate/critique to your heart's content about team selection, or aesthetic quality of performance,but the results are what count; And If you wish to be pessimistic about the next 6 games, that's pure supposition & irrelevant to the debate at this point.

I do not think Moyes does anything other than impart cofidence & cogent advice to the players in the dressing room, and I think it 's obvious his modesty towards the media is a ruse. If you think he ought to be bellicose in tone, that's your preference.

As far as I can see, Jon, it appears that you're only critical of me for daring to criticize those who are critical of the team following an (admittedly not critically-acclaimed) 3-1 win.
Dominic Bobadilla
66   Posted 18/09/2011 at 21:27:47

Report abuse

Hello Kevin: I acknowledge that you are a clever guy and I respect your opinion (no irony intended). However, I think it is appropriate to question Moyes's media strategy. Personally, I do not believe that this guy has any media strategy at all, but if he does, and if this be his strategy, he should keep in mind that he is communicating with one of Everton's most vital assets: the fans. His irritability and condescending attitude will not serve him well in the long run, because he runs the risk of alienating the fans. And are you saying that Moyes is likely to be more upbeat in the dressing room? One should hope so! But do you know of any gaffer who sings the psalms of doom or recites the lamentations of Jeremiah during halftime?
Kevin Hudson
67   Posted 18/09/2011 at 22:03:45

Report abuse

Dominic,

Harry Catterick was rightly very sceptical of the media. Alex Ferguson's stubborn feud with "Aunty," for 7 years did NOTHING to alienate him from Man.Utd fans.

Duncan Ferguson's laudable & complete refusal to kow-tow to the media gained him a certain respect. "Media bollox."

"Media strategy?" I couldn't care less if he never gave another predictable interview in his life! Call me old-fashioned (and Moyes is) but I want my managers developing the players, rather than worrying about his close-up.

The media treats us as an irrelevance anyway. In an age when interviews have become formulaic, generic & uninsightful 99% of the time, why treat it as important to the big picture or job description?

Results over spin any day.
Ian Tunstead
68   Posted 19/09/2011 at 00:25:25

Report abuse

Completely agree Kevin, I would rather Moyes do what he does rather than what the Blackburn manager did tonight by going on sky sports news to grovel to the fans and beg for their support. It stunk of desperation. He just came accross as a very weak charater holding on to his short managerial career for dear life.

Dominc you say "His irritability and condescending attitude will not serve him well in the long run, because he runs the risk of alienating the fans."

Fair enough, that is your opinion, but there are many fans like myself agree with his attitude towards the media.
Martin Mason
69   Posted 19/09/2011 at 05:30:17

Report abuse

Cast our minds back to 1983-84. A piss poor team full of has beens and second division players and a manager who to all intents and purposes seemed clueless. A couple of additions from the same mould transformed that team to the top of europe and Kendall to divine status. We have put together a goodish run and have bought what may be the catalyst to improve in young players rather than expensive stars. We won 3-1 on Saturday and yet still we are pouring criticism on board and manager.

I thought that City fans were the biggest moaners but I'm not sure now.

Btw anybody who equates loss in gates to support of the Kenwright out position needs to get real. I'm part of the loss and it's nothing to do with Kenwright or Moyes both who have my support.
Dominic Bobadilla
70   Posted 19/09/2011 at 08:36:03

Report abuse

Martin (67): Kendall won a trophy during his 3rd full season as Everton manager, whereas Moyes has been here for nearly ten years and won fckall.
Martin Mason
71   Posted 19/09/2011 at 08:48:56

Report abuse

Yes too true but he made up for it later.
Simon Harris
72   Posted 19/09/2011 at 08:57:26

Report abuse

Martin,

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on why attendances are down - you dismiss the Kenwright / Moyes factors as playing any part?
Steve Abraham
73   Posted 19/09/2011 at 09:13:18

Report abuse

Dominic #67. Kendall won in the Pre premiership era. The "playing field" was more even then. These days money talks, as they say. We haven't got any money.
Martin Mason
74   Posted 19/09/2011 at 10:18:44

Report abuse

Simon, sorry I don't dismiss that it had any part only that there are so many other reasons such as the economic turndown, that EPL soccer is increasingly poor quality as 3 teams compete and 17 only try to survive, that watching from home or on the internet is easier than going to the game, that tickets for many away games are impossible to get, that watching a game played by often obnoxious young men who get paid more a week than most do per year or a transfer system controlled by their equally obnoxious spiv agents. Well, there's more but see what I mean? The concept that 6000 people don't go now because of Kenwright is not remotely credible.

I watched United vs Chelsea yesterday and that was football a league or even 2 above where we are and I would close the curtains if they played in my back garden. We have zero chance of getting into that bracket, all we can hope for is that the new Euro leage is formed sooner than later and we small clubs can play each other competitively again.
Phil Bellis
75   Posted 19/09/2011 at 11:04:03

Report abuse

Rafa Mason has just called us a small club! Shameful
Eugene Ruane
76   Posted 19/09/2011 at 10:53:44

Report abuse

Anyone who justifies not criticising Moyes tactics because 'we won ffs!' is imho, arguing like a child.

This was fucking Wigan..AT HOME!

And for an Everton side to start that fixture without a forward was, I believe, fucking criminal.

We won?

Big whoop!

If you're honest, you'll accept (as with QPR) it could have JUST as easily gone the other way.

We all know our limitations, but to deliberately limit things even further from the off was, for me, a disgrace.

It is my belief that if you have pace (Drenthe), start with pace.

If you have skill, cut-through, (Barkley) start with it.

If you have forwards, start them (especially at home!).

Seriously, what does it tell opposition managers if we don't start with our strikers at home?

We're nervous, scared, tentative, a dreaw will do?

As for 'this feller or that feller might get injured', here is a 100% fact.

ANYONE can get injured ANYTIME during ANY game - that's a chance you take.

I accept that as things are, we can't compete over a season with a handful of teams, but for the rest of them (including the likes of fucking Wigan and QPR) particularly at home, we should be playing 4-4-2 and letting them worry about us.
Tony J Williams
77   Posted 19/09/2011 at 12:24:52

Report abuse

What strikers Eugene? Saha? hasn't played in half a year. Anichebe? injred, Vellios, from what I saw on Saturday, the lad won't make it. Stracula? Hadn't played yet.

Play one/two of them or play a man that has been there or there about top scorer for the last 6 years up front. I know what common sense would make me do.

Sticking to a wining formation (only formation) doesn't show we are scared at all. It shows we are sticking with our same formation and are happy with it. We played our best game of this short season against Villa, so why would we not start with the same fella upfront?
Dominic Bobadilla
78   Posted 19/09/2011 at 13:30:25

Report abuse

I would say that we are among 30 biggest clubs in the world. That will do for me. Some talk as if we are Plymouth Argyle.
Chad Schofield
79   Posted 19/09/2011 at 14:16:20

Report abuse

Tony J Williams, so because someone hasn't played they shouldn't play? Good logic.

Also, you fell Vellios won't make it after coming on for a cameo and scoring? Really? Last week he almost scored too... exactly what have you seen that makes you think he'll fail?
Eugene Ruane
80   Posted 19/09/2011 at 14:10:27

Report abuse

Tony (75) - From what you saw on Saturday, Vellios WON'T make it!?

Well whether he will or he won't make it, SURELY you can't be basing your view on what you saw on Saturday, coz what you saw on Saturday was a 19 year old STRIKER come off the bench and score a great header to put us 2-1 up.

Seriously, have I missed something here?

And don't talk to me about 'common sense'.

If we were interested or concerned about common sense, we wouldn't be spending (A LOT OF!!) money watching a team play in a league it can't win.

As for sticking to a 'winning formation' - after Blackburn, only legally could that be applied.

Dominic (76) - Just out of interest, could you name the other 29?


Tony J Williams
81   Posted 19/09/2011 at 15:46:01

Report abuse

Chad, I am saying that exactly. The lad has just joined us and had no pre-season at all and has never played in the premiership before...so yes I am saying I wouldn't start with him over Cahill..... at the moment

Eugene, I am basing my opnion on his few cameos and from what I saw on Saturday. Awkward movement, poor passing, a poor shot and a cracking goal. Brilliant header but the rest of his game was awful. I hope he proves me wrong, I really do but I have a feeling he won't.
Eugene Ruane
82   Posted 19/09/2011 at 16:12:17

Report abuse

Tony (79) I'm not saying he's a world-beater but he only played 20 mins or whatever and got the decisive goal. And at least (nb: unlike experienced regular Fellaini) he looked like he actually wanted to be on the bleeding park.
Tony J Williams
83   Posted 19/09/2011 at 16:50:21

Report abuse

Agree with you completely about Fellaini, him and Ossie has a mare on Saturday.
Ciar�n McGlone
84   Posted 19/09/2011 at 16:23:11

Report abuse

Saha hasn't played in six months?
Dominic Bobadilla
85   Posted 19/09/2011 at 17:36:20

Report abuse

Eugene: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes%27_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs
Eugene Ruane
86   Posted 20/09/2011 at 15:28:47

Report abuse

Dominic - HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Brilliant!

Arsenal and Bayern will be chuffed to find themselves 'bigger' than Barcelona and I am delighted to find that we're 'bigger' than ANY team in Argentina and/or Brazil.

COYB!



Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb

Recent News

Recent Articles

Talking Points, Messages & The Game

Everton in the Community

About these ads