Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Evertonians: A dying breed

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When I was growing up in the 70s and we were doing nothing at all in the league, there was a marked difference to the number of red mates to the number of blue ones, probably 2 red for every blue.

Move on 35 years and the percentage of reds seems to have grown exponentially, to probably ten reds to every blue.

Because I don?t go to the games anymore I watch in the pub (when it's on which is quite rare) and the number of Blues actually there watching is getting smaller by the week. When we played Villa and the RS played Stoke, all 6 bars in Crosby were packed with reds, only one bar with 2 screens put the Blues on in a tiny corner and about 20 blues watched compared to about 120 reds.

Perhaps it is time to accept we are just another Tranmere in our city, perhaps while we are never bringing in exciting new players the kids will never be swayed over to the Blue side. Perhaps this is the start of the end...
Steve Cotton, Liverpool     Posted 23/09/2011 at 17:12:14

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Andy Crooks
1   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:12:47

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Steve,normally I bow to no one in the miserable stakes but ,hats off, that's a belter.
Stephen Davies
2   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:29:06

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What a happy soul you are.
Matty Dawkins
3   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:31:35

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Its easy to support teams like Liverpool, thing is though their "supporters" are all fucking deluded, they still think they'll win the league, at least we know we're Shite.

Bob Turner
4   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:34:43

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You don't think it might have something to do with the fact that Everton were at home (and therefore they'd be at the match) and the RS were away?
Dean Adams
5   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:42:08

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Bob Turner

That could just be a rumour. Can anyone prove we were at home and the RS were away?
Seriously its all going Pete Tonge at the moment and the reality is just so boring.
We are broke because we chased the dream and failed to get to the Champions league. I wont blame the board for trying but I will blame them for the lack of investment and the potential lost opportunities.
Peter Brennan
6   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:45:11

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What utter nonsense. You can strike yourself off that list of evertonians if you want sit there and liken this great historic club to tranmere. No disrespect to them, a great club in their own right but completely different league to everton. Tosh. Absolute Tosh.
John Jacob
7   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:30:36

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weren't we all at the match?!
Peter Brennan
8   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:45:11

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What utter nonsense. You can strike yourself off that list of evertonians if you want sit there and liken this great historic club to tranmere. No disrespect to them, a great club in their own right but completely different league to everton. Tosh. Absolute Tosh.
Robert Daniels
9   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:50:41

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10/1

This is a wind up.

Do they get 350,000 a week turning up outside anfield.

Certain pubs wherever you go on merseyside are dominated by either reds or blues.

Get a grip.
Lyndon Lloyd
10   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:00:51

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I think you knobbled yourself with the Tranmere comparison, Steve. No disrespect to Rovers but there is no comparison and its farcical to suggest there is one.

While some kids will understandably flock towards glory — or, in this case, the greater chance of it; the red horde haven't won a title in two decades and fluked the Champions League — I think you underestimate the power of the Evertonian tradition and the size of our Club and grossly overstate the "dying breed" assertion.
Billy Bradshaw
11   Posted 23/09/2011 at 21:56:38

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bullshit steve, there isnt that many bars in crosby. dont forget most evertonians would have been at the game and as for that lot they have generations of people who watch there games in the pubs. I heard a classic last week whilst in the tailors getting my jeans taken up. this so called shite season ticket holder was asking were goodison park was, as he had never seen it !!!
Mick Davies
12   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:00:18

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Evertonians have been outnumbered by 'reds' for as long as I can remember. Of all these L'pool fans though, only a small number have ever been to Anfield. The European successes and the name of the city are a big attraction to those who need to shout their mouths off in the alehouse but they clam up when the club is on a downer and their 'love' for the club dies away.

With Everton fans though, it's quality over quantity and I wouldn't want it any other way. Once a Blue always a Blue, come rain or shine. The shallow masses can have their glory when it arrives, we have something far more precious: We are born to love Everton FC and it doesn't change like the weather.
John Keating
13   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:04:54

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When i was growing up in Everton in the 50s' and 60s' there was predominantly blue support locally - big time ! Most of the school kids and local streets were blue. On a Saturday with my dad we would go up Everton Brow and all thefooty buses from town.would shoot past cos they were full. We would always get a lift from a passing taxi or car who had a spare seat and get to the match in time.
Once the council started knocking down the streets and sending everyone to Kikby, Skem etc things changed. Worse thing ever happened !
Gerard Sutton
14   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:12:47

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I can't believe the shit what I have just read! Try going the game and supporting your team!!
Tony McNulty
15   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:27:50

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If we're Tranmere, the Shite are Marine
James Morgan
16   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:50:25

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I agree there are more reds than blues nationwide and worldwide but in the city I actually believe there are more blues.
Admittedly I'm not from Liverpool (though my dads side of the family are), but I have worked there plenty of times and the number of Everton shirts, car stickers, jackets, apparel, merchandise or whatever you want to call it seems to me to outweigh the shites. Obviously it's not an accurate measurement system and we may just show off our loyalty more, but that's the way I see it.
Chris Butler
17   Posted 23/09/2011 at 22:52:12

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You couldn't really make this up, could you? And I got accused of being a kopite for saying we should forgive Rooney. Liverpool fans are always in the pub wathching games, putting YNWA at the end of their sentences and blaming referees for their defeats.

I agree there are loads of people who call themselves reds who never go to the match, they just spend their whole life chatting shit in the pub. Honestly, they're the worst fans in the league, even United fans make them look pathetic. Just look at what happens when they play in a big final ? the pubs are full, yet when Everton play, they're all empty because we've all actually gone to the game.

I also do not agree Liverpool had more supporters in the 70s; I'd say it was very much the same from what people have told me.

Tranmere, my ... we took more to Benfica in 2009 than they get for their biggest games. Crosby isn't even Liverpool anyway, Liverpool ends once you leave Walton or Kirkdale. Sefton isn't Liverpool, it's not like areas like Huyton, Canny Farm, Kirkby and Halewood that were built for scousers. There's nothing more that annoys real scousers than plazzy scousers telling them they have a L postcode... rant over.

Everton supporters are nearly all from Liverpool or have some connection with Liverpool which most fans are proud of. Evertonians do not choose we're chosen. 1 Everton fan is worth 20 Liverpool fans.

Sean McCarthy
18   Posted 23/09/2011 at 23:02:12

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God bless you Steve!! I've just worked 9 long days on the spin and I'm thoroughly pooped. Just read your post and it warmed the cockles of my heart. It's good to know no matter how tired I feel or how long my week has been I could never be as miserable as you!!!

First class tosh beaten only by Tory MP priti patel's performance on last nights Question Time!! If you didn't see her it's now available in HD on YouTube!! Priceless!!
Steve Cotton
19   Posted 24/09/2011 at 00:04:31

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Three points in regard to your answers:

1. I am not a miserable sod and I have probably been to more games home and away than most on here.

2. If you actually think kids these days grow up supporting the Blues by choice, you have got your head in the sand; most young kids support the RS and the trend is growing.

3. And there are eight or nine bars in Crosby showing the football so don't try and say otherwise. And, when the RS are at home, they still show the reds and are usually full.

The fact that this article of mine got published showed that it had touched a nerve; if we want to reverse the trend of all Liverpool-born kids wearing red shirts, then we need to do something about it now...

If you think there is equilibrium in the city, then you are deluded. Make a suggestion ? don't shoot the messanger...

Victor Chang
20   Posted 24/09/2011 at 00:11:32

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Matty @ 3 ? I think a lot of blues are deluded too ? myself included; I reckon we'll be 4th after this weekend's fixtures, finish in a European qualifying spot at the end of the season and make at least the semis of a cup competition.
James Flynn
21   Posted 24/09/2011 at 02:17:53

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"Money changes everything", according to Cyndy Lauper. Money has its place, no question.

But it's winning changes everything. That's a fact. Everyone loves a winner. We all do.

Let's get the 3 points this weekend.
Rob Teo
22   Posted 24/09/2011 at 02:29:13

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Just to complicate the picture/hijack the issue further, here in Singapore (and in Australia where I lived for 12 years), there are infinitely more red supporters than blue ones.

Unless Everton are playing one of the "big" teams, there's no chance of their game being screened anywhere at all. Even when it is, the number of Blues in attendance is always outnumbered by supporters of the other team (about 8 to 1?). And most Everton supporters tend to be around my age, i.e. 36. You hardly ever see a young fan in Everton's colours.

We're definitely not Tranmere, and I accept the point that being a supporter here is somewhat different from being a supporter based in Liverpool. But it really is a global game these days, and the long-term strategy of any club that has serious aspirations of success really depends on how much global support they can garner. (I mean, imagine Man U surviving solely by tapping into its fanbase in Manchester. I think not.)

While I reckon Everton may still be considered a big club in some parts of the UK, I would say that we're on par with the likes of Villa or Fulham in the pedigree stakes in many overseas countries (other overseas readers please feel free to verify/comment here).

I note Lyndon's (#10) view that the size of the club and the power of its tradition remain important factors. However, these unfortunately do not resonate much with overseas fans, simply because our focus will be what's on the pitch (via the TV screen) first... and only on the club's history later. Without on-field success, or potential success, it's really hard for would-be fans to be interested in its history and traditions. In that sense, we are really losing a significant chunk of our potential overseas fanbase.

(Just to highlight the point: MUTV (Man Utd TV) screens regularly here. I've never watched it, but I would reckon that there'd be a segment or two devoted to illustrating the tradition of the club.)

As such, I agree with the OP that, without exciting new players, it will be very difficult for Everton to attract new (younger) fans.

While I don't think it's the beginning of the end (so long as Everton stays in the Premier League), I do think we're witnessing a decline into permanent mid-table club status.

Ste Blundell
23   Posted 24/09/2011 at 03:26:17

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What, do you mean exciting signings like Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam and Jordan Henderson for a combined fee of over 88 million quid? You fucking soft cunt.
Rob Teo
24   Posted 24/09/2011 at 04:25:50

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Ste, I would say that the excitement stems in part from the 88 million quid, not just the players that are bought.

Are they potentially shithouse signings for the redshite? I sincerely hope they turn out to be so. But would I have been excited had it been Moyes who had spent that money on those players? In all honesty, yes (just like I was when Moyes spent those inflated sums of money on Yakubu and Johnson and Fellaini and Billy and Beattie, even though they weren't exactly world-beaters).
Steve Guy
25   Posted 24/09/2011 at 09:25:56

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These things are cyclical in nature based on success on the pitch. The big difference for me is that our last period of sustained success was pre Sky and the increased globalisation opportunities this has since presented to Clubs. Hence the RS and Manure created a world wide fan base (especially in football hungry Asia) during the 90's. Manure have continued to be successful, Chelski came on the scene and took a slice of the global fans (can anybody say they had a huge fanbase pre Sky and their Russkie billionaire turning up ?) The RS persist because it suits Sky's agenda (watch them fall off the radar unless Dogleash can get them back into the Champions League soon). Look at Citteh now, as Sky and other media outlets pick them up off the back of their relative recent success and probable domination of the EPL for the next decade.

This is what's frustrating, we missed one opportunity when we qualified for the CL and it's clearly going to be some years before we get the chance again. We have a hard core of fans which is consistent, but I accept the point that it may also be an ageing core.
Steve Cotton
26   Posted 24/09/2011 at 09:40:47

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Rob Teo & Steve Guy both good points, all i was trying to say is that the only hard core EFC supporters are the older generation, and if we fall too far behind then we will become a second class citizen with very few young blues to fill our place.
I have lived in Australia and the only blues I met were ones who hade emigrated from Merseyside, whereas there were numerous 'G'day' talking reds who had picked them from watching their numerous games on tv, at least 20 reds to blues i guess.
dont forget all their pre-season and league matches are shown over there.
you might say 'better born a blue' etc but that is not grasping the problemwe now face.The world wide interest in the big 5 in our league means we cant compete. will that trend ever be reversed?
Kevin Hudson
27   Posted 24/09/2011 at 11:06:53

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Evertonians: A Sighing Breed.

Another surrender-monkey article.
Kunal Desai
28   Posted 24/09/2011 at 11:23:52

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I live down south and all i've heard from idiot liverpool fans are that we'll win the title at the start of every season. for the last 20 odd years. They really do themselves the justice of looking like fucking clowns season after season.
Ste Blundell
29   Posted 24/09/2011 at 13:33:13

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Rob Teo #24 - So you're talking retail therapy, maybe we should get Philip Green more involved and open a Topman on the Street End. Tit.
Rob Teo
30   Posted 24/09/2011 at 14:34:17

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Ste Blundell - Tit? Seriously? Resorting to name-calling and one-line simplistic arguments to get your point across? Seriously? Come on, we're both adults. If you want to be taken seriously, at least act like on. I mean, seriously?
Jimmy Sorheim
31   Posted 24/09/2011 at 14:39:49

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We may be going nowhere as a club but our history is much greater then Tranmere. I dont know what planet you are from butyou cant piss on Evertons rich history like that and expect to get away with it. Even after wathing us lose 2-0 to Manchester City I still feel proud about our history , but not so much about the present.We are heading down the table and if no new players are bought in January then we will struggle to beat relegation. Saha looks shite Cahill is out of form and now injured and we have no other permanent striker cover. I am feeling a bit of shame as to how we got here to this point losing Yakubu, Arteta, Pienaar and Beckford. Look at the finances and you will have to see that we can not afford big wages anymore. We never could and that pisses me off as Kenwright has been the unresponsible one and afford 75.00 a week wage to arteta. That NEVER should have happened! We now have to start all over again building up a new team and it will have to be done in cheap way for us to survive!!!
Trevor Lynes
32   Posted 24/09/2011 at 15:56:10

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When I began supporting EFC the fans were 50% red and 50% blue and if you check out your history you will see that EFC have had gates of plus 70,000 back in the good old days....78,000 for a derby match at goodison and I watched us beat Spurs 2 goals to one in a fifth round cup match with over 72,000 present.
The biggest gate ever for a cup game was when we beat Liverpool one nil with Ball scoring the only goal...the game was shown on the big screen at anfield and BOTH grounds were filled to capacity and thousands locked out.
The only club with a bigger gate than us for a home game is Man City at maine road when they had 81,000 fans.
Obviously the article writer is very young and thinks like lots of pundits that football only began with the premier league.
Dalziel Kane
33   Posted 24/09/2011 at 15:56:13

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It's odd but I seem to remember back in the 1970's this club had it's moments, can you call the first year of the decade as League Champions as ''doing nothing at all in the league'' and even after that especially towards the end under Gordon Lee as manager the club did have some domestic success in the league by finishing third in 1978 and in a similar position the following year, hardly a calamity of a league campaign or decade involvement.

I can't buy into the fact we was put forth as a Tranmere Rovers replica, what's that even about?. And the kids on the street can follow whoever they like, they won't know about any respective teams histories, tell some kid that before 1964 Liverpool FC didn't even seem to exsist before Shankly arrived and the building job started and EFC was already a well established club with a list of honors going back over 70 years and one of the founder members of the Football League.

I really don't give a fuck about the other half, OK, when they have a significant defeat that does kind of get my attention sometimes, such as last weekend, but for now, and on this day, I'm guessing it'll be another no thrills season, another year without the League Title, (and that could be one hell of a long wait), and an awkward trip to Stoke City in the Mickey, sorry, League Cup coming up whereas we face a Chelsea side at Goodison who looked less than convincing getting past Fulham the other night.

Had a defeat today against a Manchester City side much improved after years, decades and eons of hiding away in the corner while Manchester's bigger brother was making a sweep for honors, but still remain strong, we have a list of accolades, former players and lists of achievement that can only be bettered by a handful of clubs in the UK, and have spent more years as a top flight team than any other, that at least is something to be proud of.

Unfortunately times change and today we take a back seat to others goings on, it may be a while before we can see this club challenging for League titles again but at least we did reach those heights on many a time and didn't need no fancy billionaires coming along to aid us in order to do it. Just good efficient players, a work ethic and everybody pulling their weight in order to succeed.

This club may not see the likes of the mid 1980s again (as a last example) in our lifetimes, I appreciate that, but I don't watch snides like Chelsea or City (incidentally rather obscure clubs not up to much before money played a hand) doing well and thinking 'oh I wish I was with them'. The next few years could be another barren spell at Goodison Park or continuation of recent times we have witnessed but I'll still be around, I ain't gonna go glory hunting or hitch any wagons to any sides who are going places or have established themselves after years of dormant inactivity. It's EFC, win lose or draw, but I guess that covers everyone involved I should hope who reads these pages.
Trevor Mackie
34   Posted 24/09/2011 at 16:54:05

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Prefer to think of our support as being in hibernation awaiting the return of spring, but another 15 years like this doesn't bear thinking about.

The bottom line is people follow success.

Everton and Liverpool have such big support is down to the victorious past nothing else.

Defending a regime that's turned us into mid-table makeweights with a hopeless outlook is deluded.
Peter Knight
35   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:14:37

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Times certainly have changed... I remember seeing Germany v Russia World Cup semi-final at Goodison Park, former Everton Trainee buying Man Utd for £10M in 1989... Man City in the Third Division.

We still have Dixie Dean's record goals in a season and Everton will survive.
Mick Davies
36   Posted 25/09/2011 at 02:20:56

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Dalziel Kane #33 "we did reach those heights on many a time and didn't need no fancy billionaires coming along to aid us in order to do it.". Well the truth is mate, we did need the equivalent of todays billionaires. John Moores was one of the richest men in the country and he bankrolled our 63 and 70 title wins. We've got another Evertonian in charge only this one doesn't have a pot to piss in. To get the club back to it's previously dizzy heights takes great wealth and a top class manager. We don't have either so the kids of the future will continue to shun the unfashionable blues for other successful clubs. Forget the Tranmere analogy, it seems more like a Notts County/Forest thing, two clubs with great histories but left behind by greed. We could end up as County, whose fans are few and usually older than EC winners Forests
Rob Murphy
37   Posted 25/09/2011 at 15:47:02

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Maybe it's a result of our fantastic marketing dept's decision to only sell shirts in the club shops that you don't see as many shirts in pubs. Not that easy for an ordinary Joe Soap punter to get their hands on shirts without a credit card??
Brian Denton
38   Posted 28/09/2011 at 20:43:01

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Mick Davies (Post #36), that's a very selective view of history, to draw a straight comparison between us in the 60s and the likes of City today. Firstly IIRC, John Moores underwrote Everton - he wasn't a Jack Walker figure, actually GIVING the club money out of his arse pocket.

Secondly, you only have to look at the variety of clubs who won the League in the 60s and 70s (Ipswich, Burnley, Forest, Derby, Leeds, even shitty City) to realise that having a multi-millionaire in the background might have been nice, but it wasn't a necessity. Alan Ball apart, I don't think any of the 'marquee' players (Best, Law, Charlton, the West Ham trio, Jimmy Greaves etc) played for Everton, did they.........?

So, no: I don't accept the comparison at all. And to suggest that we should is to therefore condone the disgusting brothel of the Premier League by saying things were no better then. They were.

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