Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

The end of the Moyes - Kenwright project

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We had a go at trying for the Champions League. It didn't work out... and today signalled that the plan is over. We are about survival.

I fear that today Moyes sees this as a good result. Negative, defeatist and utterly embarrassing. We didn't get thumped, fucking brilliant!!!

Today signalled that we are spent as a competitive side. Keep us in the Premier League is the plan. Nothing more.

Does David Moyes believe that the squad he has assembled are a pile of shite? Certainly he doesn't have much confidence in them...

Shameful, cowardly, capitulation. Let's give him an extended contract.

Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 24/09/2011 at 18:12:03

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Steve Sweeney
1   Posted 24/09/2011 at 18:53:52

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I just wish we had a manager who believed in his players and gave them the belief that they can beat anybody. To sit back and defend a nil-nil is shameful

I am so glad his tactics did not work out. A 0-0 scoreline would have justified his plan. I am sorry we got beat but get used to it; if you play without strikers, don't expect to score many goals.
Neil Pickering
2   Posted 24/09/2011 at 18:55:15

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I don't think Moyes should go but I was really pissed off with his comments after the game. I think you are right about him seeing us not get a hiding as a real plus point.

Nobody ever expected us to go to City and dominate possession, it was always going to be backs to the wall for a lot of the game, but you still need to have some form of offensive plan. I don't think Moyes had one until we went behind, and by then as usual it's too late.
Ian McDowell
3   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:01:18

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Moyes is correct unfortunately. Not getting a good hiding at City is a good result. Look at the resources, City have let go Bellamy, Adebayor, SWP and have a bench full of top players. We have a few young bargins so what do people expect? Today, the lads played well and the manger had them well drilled.
Robert Johnson
4   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:02:20

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David Moyes ? you're a fucking disgrace, just pack your bags and fuck off.
Ian Tunstead
5   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:06:56

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Well Andy, Moyes has applied a similar approach to the City games in the past and has come out on top, so why change a winning formula? Ok it didn't work this time but it was always going to be against the odds for us to get a result at their place with the talent they could put out.
Paul Knox
6   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:06:21

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Ian ? Do think that's all we are good for? If so, why not play to win? In your eyes, we have nothing to lose, we had already lost before we kicked a ball. Funny though although millions didn't stop us last season. I for one am sick of Moyes's tactics, we sacked Lee for less.
Ian Tunstead
7   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:11:09

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Steve, if we had've gone toe to toe with Man City, City would have had a feld day. What planet are you people on? They have 100s of millions of pounds worth of talent. It is incredible that we have managed to get the results against them in the past and then, when the inevitable finally happens, people can't wait to dig the knife in.
Andy Peers
8   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:11:40

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Debatable tactics today but it just shows you that we should have played an attacking 4-4-2 in our four prior league games. We have to win against the equal or lesser teams.

It will be more of the same next week and I fear a loss at home, in the derby, will be enough to even put the Kenwright supporters against him. Put his face on the screen if were losing to Liverpool and see who cheers.
Alan Clarke
9   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:15:37

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The worst thing is a lot of fans have been brain washed into thinking the same as Moyes.

For all our great history, the club is now small-time. Small-time chairman, small-time manager, small-time players and an apparent large section of small-time fans.
Tony McNabb
10   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:17:07

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3 strikers, skill, pace... unfortunately that was our subs bench.

Moyes, fuck off now!

Ian Tunstead
11   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:16:24

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Paul, we did play to win. Moyes obviously thinks his best players are midfielders, I thought it was still 0-0 until we brought on the more attacking players. Moyes used the same tactics that have consistently beat City, so why change it?
Mike Littler
12   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:17:16

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We were poor, end of... and, unfortunately for us, this will happen for the next few weeks: zero strikers in the team against a very quick attacking side is poor tactics. At least one forward would have kept their defenders on their toes.

Today was hoofball up and then watch it come back but yet some blues defend this ("At least we weren't stuffed")... Well a loss is a loss in my eyes and, as long as the piss poor tactics from man on millions continue, then we will inevitable decline.

Max Meindl
13   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:38:18

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We are playing against a team with some of the best players in the world on the field and on the bench. What were you expecting, us to go out and attack at all costs?
Anthony Manning
14   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:28:42

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Ian (#11), Moyes is as negative against Wigan and QPR at home as he is against City or United away ? all he wants is 10 players who can run all day and play in seven different positions; the man is the highest paid employee at the club... his one dimensial approach is not good enough.
Ben Jones
15   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:41:08

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One word for the majority on here.... Naive. Ian's spot on, we played the same tactics against them before and won. We were just a lot more clinical. Also City's attack is a lot better. If we attacked we would maybe score 1 or 2 and concede 4 or 5 due to the pace of players like Aguero and Silva.
Mick Fleming
16   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:43:15

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FFS some people. Moyes uses the same tactics every week, not just today, so don't try to justify it with a shite excuse as Moyes does. What's our motto again?

Ian and Max ? let's apply the same thought process to our next couple of games because the Shite, United and Chelski have spent lots of money. Park the bus, close your eyes and hope we nick a cheeky goal... School of Science, eh?

What a load of fuckin crap; god help us.

Billy Bradshaw
17   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:47:26

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There were times in today's match when all of our 11 players were in our own goal area in open play. I must admit I don't think I have ever seen that before, especially when the score line was 0-0.

To not play a player with any pace up front from the start was astounding! It was so easy for their defenders, it was criminal.

Ian Tunstead
18   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:48:29

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Anthony, I think if you gave Moyes the option of either having players who run around all day or players like Silva, Nasri, Aguaro etc that City have, he would chose the City players. We cannot afford those players with that kind of quality so we have to use the players we can afford and make sure they work twice as hard to try to make up for the lack of quality. It's easy to play attacking football when you have the money to buy the best attacking players in the world.
David Marsden
19   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:55:21

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FFS get real, we got beat by a fantastic squad of players. I must mention, however, that the ref was shite and I think we had some chances. To conclude, we ain't that far away.
John Ford
20   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:51:57

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Agree Ben. It beggars belief the way some can suspend their critical faculties.

Why on earth would we change the tactics which have won the last two visits here? City have spent a shed load more ? and just got better, that's why it didn't work.

It doesn't mean we accept or like it, it's shit. The OP is just melodramatic guff. If you can't put criticisms into any context then they're not worth the effort.
David Marsden
21   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:57:52

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@ Ian. you don't know this. That is purely your opinion. You cannot make stuff up and pass it off as fact.
Mick Fleming
22   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:56:48

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Ian, if Moyes had them players we would more than likely fuck up their contracts or sell them on, Moyes would maybe even play them in defence or in goal. Didn't we have players like Arteta and Peanuts recently?
John Ford
23   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:58:46

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Yeh Mick cos Neville plays in front of the back two every game doesnt he? Smell the coffee mate.

Lets move on and beat the shite. Having fuck all money means we won't be in the Champions League, but it doesnt stop us winning games. It just gets harder.
Ian Tunstead
24   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:56:25

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Mick our motto is nothing but the optimum, Moyes gets the optimum out of his players but there is not much you can do against the quality we were up against today, just ask Spurs.

You mention Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U, all have struggled to beat us in recent season thanks to Moyes's tactics even though they have far superior players. It took City about 6 attempts to finally get a result against Moyes.

Andy Crooks
25   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:58:12

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Ian, I don't think we used the same tactics today that previously succeeded against City. It seems to me hat we defended deeper and offered nothing going forward.

Worse teams than us will beat City this season and they won't do it by playing with fear. Moyes has filled our team with fear... We treat City and Wigan the same way, sad and shameful.

Joe McMahon
26   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:54:11

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I usually get slated when I say something negative about the Moyes 20-year game plan, but this is how I feel. Today I even went to Manchester, did some shopping, and had a nice meal out with the Mrs. I wasn't interested in the match, I didn't even record the game on Sky.

Way back since 1977, I chose the blues (coming from a Man City family); at 7 years old I made that choice. I have never been so ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with Everton as I am now under Moyes because of continual negative anti-football tactics. I'm so pissed off, I don't want to see us again.

The last 7 times I've seen Everton, we have never even scored a goal, not once. It's shocking, and Moyes is the most morose, tactically inept, miserable person I have ever heard speak.

How dare he start every game with no strikers; how dare he with the wages he is paid. It's a disgrace, our football club is a disgrace.

Football is supposed to entertain and be enjoyed. 10 years he has had and look at the brand of football.

Proud to be an Evertonian? Not any more...

Ian Tunstead
27   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:02:55

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Hahaha Ye you must be right then David, I'm sure Moyes would tell Aguaro, Silva and Nasri to do one.... The mind boggles.
Ian Tunstead
28   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:06:26

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Yea, Mick ? you are too wise; Moyes would play Aguero in goal, what was I thinking?
Dominic Bobadilla
29   Posted 24/09/2011 at 19:46:05

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Paul Knox (6): Lee was a master tactician compared to Moyes.
John Ford
30   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:06:21

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Andy, City just had the ball more than previous games. They're a better team now so we had to defend more.
Ian Tunstead
31   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:08:12

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Andy as David just put to me "That is purely your opinion. You cannot make stuff up and pass it off as fact " that worse teams than us will beat City. I doubt it.
Alan Clarke
32   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:14:09

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It's the fact that anyone thinks playing with no strikers is acceptable for Everton Football Club. Brainwashed by years and years of mediocre Moyes crap served up week-in and week-out.
Mick Fleming
33   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:03:13

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John, what are you on about with Neville? Do you mean we had no choice? Because I beg to differ and that's my point. He must have played Neville there to suit his boring predictable (not just a Man City one-off) formation.

Ian, I don't care about other teams like Spurs ? I only care about Everton. Yes, the Redshite and United have found it hard in recent years but all of these teams have improved so what's our Plan B? Lay some fresh tarmac on the pitch, park the bus, hope they don't score or don't score that many. If they win, at least we can say that they haven't done that well against us in recent years.

Please don't say what can he do with what he's got, it's his team.
Tony Marsh
34   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:15:08

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I'd sooner we get beat 4-3 having a go, like Bolton, than get beaten lying down like a shitehouse rat. It's Moyes all over though... Fulham put 2 past this same City side last week ? are we saying Fulham are a better side than us?

I have had it with the attitude that has engulfed the whole club ? supporters included. It's typical of what we have become. The players must be sick of Shitbag Dave telling them how great the opposition is... It fucking stinks.
Darren Smith
35   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:22:12

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I think we have a good side and should let them show what they can do. Not just sit there.
John Ford
36   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:32:03

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It's his team, Mick, but, if he can't buy players for three years other than a few cast-off loans, then he's basically handicapped. No-one else has to put up with this.
Mick Fleming
37   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:36:39

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John, if that's the case, then tell him to stop saying it's the best squad he's had during his tenure and that he doesn't need anyone.

I know his hands are tied but you have to admit he has other options on the bench to play a more attractive and offensive game.

Why constantly sit there with fingers crossed hoping not to concede and then go for it in the last 10 minutes or so? We are so predictable and everyone has sussed us out.

Anthony Manning
38   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:31:04

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Ian (#30), you're trying to make out Moyes has always played these tactics; he hasn`t. 3 years ago we were playing 2 up front: Yakubu and AJ and were quite good to watch. Then we changed to 1 up front; now we play with what can only be described as a 4-6-0. It`s nothing to do with lack of cash as we have 3 strikers on the bench; for me, it's a lack of ambition from Moyes.
Aiden Jones
39   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:50:29

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I'm a bit confused why people say we played well. We did not "play" any football. Playing well means passing, moving, showing skill... and (heaven forbid) a bit of attacking intent. All we did was work hard.
John Ford
40   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:55:02

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Has he really said that, Mick? And if he did, he gets criticised for underdoing his praise as well so .... you're damned if you do; you're damned of you don't etc etc.

We could definitely be more offensive and maybe more attractive ? eg, midfield: Drenthe, Fellaini, Barlley and Coleman with Vellios and Saha up front. Trouble is, I could just imagine City cutting us to ribbons in all that space. It would be time to hide behind the settee!

And all those teams last season who attack better than we do... Blackpool, West Brom, Bolton, Sunderland, Villa ? they all finished below us. The only teams who open up successfully are the money clubs. Fair play to you if you're happy to take the risk, but certainly Moyes isn't.
Andy Crooks
41   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:04:01

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Perhaps the most annoying thing today is the lack of pace. We have been missing it for years. We get Drenthe and he sits on the bench in a match where counter-attacking is our game plan.

How on earth can you go to a top side, hope to hit them on the break and start without a player capable of out-running a fucking snail???

John Barnes
42   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:05:11

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Wasn't this City team of of super humans held to a draw just a week ago by ..... the mighty Fulham???
Craig Taylor
43   Posted 24/09/2011 at 20:58:38

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DEAR OH DEAR. Not one of the fans on here who are backing Moyes's tactics today have put any argument forward defending him when you compare the tactics for the City game with Wigan/Villa/QPR games. Everyone has been the same ? SHITE! One up front, Cahill, who is not a recognised striker. Defend, defend, defend is what they must work on at training.

I am not surprised we have seen more strikers come and go than a matchbox. Moyes must coach all attacking nouse out of all our forward-thinking players. Even against West Brom in the Carling Cup, we had one up front. It won't be long before he gets rid of all our strikers and brings some defenders and midfielders to replace them.

It's an absolute disgrace that we only play with one striker at the absolute MOST!! It's time Moyes just packed his bag and did the honourable thing.

We have a good enough squad to give most teams a good going over if we played an attacking formation. We have some fantastically technically gifted footballers at the club. Yet it's being coached out of them by Dour Dave.

Bring in Martin O'Niell; with these players and his attacking style, we will win more than we will lose. I would rather watch us win 4-3 than lose 2-0 with no recognised strikers.

Robert Daniels
44   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:09:55

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Andy @ 39, Thanks mate, made me spill me beer out...

Some game plan eh?
Mick Fleming
45   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:05:58

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John he said it at the start of last season, if it still counts.

I like your line up by the way as it shows attacking intent so why did he not choose this for teams like Villa, QPR, West Brom. That also proves that he does have an option.

I would rather get beat trying than just capitulate and be praised as plucky little Everton who work hard for their manager. I am also aware that sometimes we have to be more defensive but not to just turn up and park the bus.

The better team won today, we all know it in fact I think most of us knew it as soon as he named his squad and formation. The shite across the park will have us sussed out because you just know what tactics and formation Moyes will adopt.

Trevor Mackie
46   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:06:35

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Andy Crooks

As you can see from some of the pro-Moyes posts, the dynamic duo are here for a long time yet.

The idea we try and beat teams who've spent more than us means we're going to get 5 or 6 put into us ? according to the fearful.

Any old shit will do as long as we're in the Prem.

Some of the statements are mind-boggling in their cowardice.
Paul Holmes
47   Posted 24/09/2011 at 21:56:49

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I cannot believe some of the posters on here saying they were happy with the way Everton played today, and the tactics of Moyes. People pay good money to watch Everton and we lost 2-0 with our bus mostly parked in front of our goal. We were beat before a ball was kicked because of the manager and his defeatist attitude which rubs off onto the players!
Brendan McLaughlin
48   Posted 24/09/2011 at 22:14:39

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Trevor #43 ? Not more of this "Roy of the Rovers" bollocks!
Vijay Badhan
49   Posted 24/09/2011 at 22:21:37

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This club is in serious shit on and off the field! I hope the Moyes ass-lickers have finally realised that him and Kenwright are the two biggest clueless clones ever to set foot in Goodison Park. The pair of them are so negative and useless yet so many fans still support them after nearly 10 years of shit. I for one am fast losing interest in this club as it no longer represents my values.

I don't even watch the games on TV anymore and just wait till I get to work for all my mates to take the piss out of me as I have become used to over the years of supporting EFC. Ultimately, whatever anyone says, they are responsable for the mess that is now unfolding at EFC and, as far as I am concerned, after such a long time of failure, we will never move forward whilst these two clowns are in charge.

Trevor Mackie
50   Posted 24/09/2011 at 22:51:10

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Brendan

You're doing that thing where you appear to be having a row with yourself about something then throw out an obscure comment in mid rant.

Really, what are you on about this time?

ESP ain't my forte...
John Daley
51   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:11:53

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"Not more of this "Roy of the Rovers" bollocks!"

Roy of the Rovers would be on the bench at Everton until he learnt to track back and run the channels. "Run Roy. Run. Just hold it. Hold it. HOLD IT! Wait for Ossie to get there."
Anthony Manning
52   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:09:02

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Vijay (#48), we are in the shit on and off the park but don`t be losing faith in the club; you're a blue for life, through thick and thin ? leave that attitude to Liverpool supporters. We`re moaning our tits off here, and with good cause, but never jump ship.
Trevor Mackie
53   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:19:59

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John Daley

Then Moyes would fall out with him and he'd be up the East Lancs Road to Manco-land.
Anthony Manning
54   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:28:05

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Didn`t Roy of the Rovers save a penalty in the cup final? Now that's a Moyes player if ever there was one!
Tom Bowers
55   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:37:22

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Moyes's squad selections and tactics have so far, in 10 years, yielded absolutely nothing. Kenwright satisfied? ? sure he is.

We the fans are amazed that these two blunderers have given us a team, year after year, that plays exactly the same way, match after match, and occasionally, just occasionally, they get lucky and get 3 points.

Moyes gets new players and young players but sticks with the same old underachievers and the struggle goes on.

If Moyes had any guts, he would realise that he is a Championship manager, content with that level of playing and thinking, and should help us out of our misery by quitting. There is absolutely no sign that he is moving this team to challenge for anything. Nothing but negativity seems to be his criteria, try to hold out as long as possible and hope to snatch a lucky goal to get a result. Everton are the worst equipped team to do that.

Jags is poor by his standards; Distin's days are numbered; whenever Hibbert's best days were, they are long gone; as are Osman's and Cahill's. Bily never was a factor; Saha and Anichebe will cease to be soon.

So how bad are Barkley, Drenthe, Stracqualursi and Vellios if they cannot get to start a Premier League game? Neville and Heitinga are erratic. Only Baines, Howard, Rodwell and Fellaini seem to have any consistency this season.

We have a poor squad with an even poorer manager.

Steve Guy
56   Posted 25/09/2011 at 00:08:21

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Tony Marsh, welcome back!

Robert Daniels
57   Posted 25/09/2011 at 00:14:54

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Tony Marsh, Welcome back.

Say it as it is, shithouse football, from a shithouse manager, working for a shithouse chairmen.

Get rid ? it's awful.
Anthony Manning
58   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:55:54

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Tom (#53), that opinion is a bit OTT. Although his negativity is pulling us all down at the moment, and I can`t see it improving anytime soon, his overall time at Everton has been okay. The current mood has made me think that his time as manager peaked between 2007 and 2009; during that spell, we played some good attacking football (Sunderland 7-1, the FA Cup run etc) and although am not calling for his head (he doesn't deserve that), I certainly don`t think he should be given a new deal either.
Simon Harris
59   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:42:05

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9 months ago Everton beat City away 2-1.

Only 5 of City's starting 11 that night, started today.

Whereas, replace Anichebe with Hibbert and the Everton line-up was the same.

I've always been a Moyes admirer, for the fine work he has done keeping us in the upper echelons of the PL, despite being hamstrung by a board, that fail to find any investment year after year after year.

So I lay the blame for our lack of ambition and paper-thin squad, firmly at the foot of the boardroom door...

But, Moyes also has to accept responsibility for today's total lack of intent to score a goal. Anichebe has his detractors, but he is a striker, so when choosing his team today why did Moyes substitute a right back for a striker from his winning formula of last year? Why did he not give us at least one outlet, in a team devoid of pace?

And as for Neville, well maybe his booking stifled his competitiveness, and he played in mid-week, but he was a bystander for most of the game and largely ineffective, a total mystery to me why he remained on the pitch for so long.

Moyes has surprised me in the past and I hope he pulls a rabbit out of the hat next week. Surely, at home in front of a packed house, we'll see a goalscorer starting for the mighty Blues!
Andy Crooks
60   Posted 25/09/2011 at 00:28:34

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What could Moyes have done differently? Well, we needed pace so Drenthe should have started. We needed guile. In the absence of Kevin Sheedy I'd start Bily. This could have been done while still playing a tight unit. Sadly, we all knew on Friday what the line-up would be and what the result would be.
Dominic Bobadilla
61   Posted 24/09/2011 at 23:50:55

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We have a problem: we are shite.

Our duty now is to determine the cause of our being shite.

Are we shite because we have no money or are we shite because our manager is shite?

Of course, there are many other explanatory models to which we could take recourse but, however we look at things, the fact remains that we are shite.

Of course, our disputations will come to nothing, as they will turn into another dogfight between those for and those against the Ancien Régime, and the outcome of this battle of wills may well be at variance with the wishes of both.

Be that as it may, there is one vital point on which we all agree: we all want Everton to be successful.

We have five nasty games coming up. There will be new additions to the ranks of those who want to do away with the Kenwright-Moyes configuration . The contradictions in the system will become palpable during the course of the coming weeks. The skies will darken, vultures will gather, heads will roll...
Andy Crooks
62   Posted 25/09/2011 at 00:39:40

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Simon, our squad is paper thin and therefore we need someone in charge to get the very best out of it. Moyes had his work cut out today but anyone, absolutely anyone could have done better than his performance last week.
The squad is stale, the tactics are grim and the coach has been here too long.
Andy Crooks
63   Posted 25/09/2011 at 00:46:53

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This thread needs Dave Wilson.
Anthony Manning
64   Posted 25/09/2011 at 00:51:17

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Dave Wilson, wasn`t he the drummer out the Beach Boys? is he a Blue? has he got any money? Fuck is that the time!
Brendan O'Doherty
65   Posted 25/09/2011 at 01:07:45

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Predictable rant again Andy. We lost a game of football. Watch the Gary Ablett interview for a bit of perspective. As for your claim that Bily should have started - he would have been a waste of space in a physical game like that. I can understand criticisms of Moyes' starting line-up if we are playing QPR at home, but away to City who have 3 of the best players in the world playing behind their striker it was right to try and stop them playing. I don't buy into this rubbish like 'it would have been better to lose 5-0 while having a go at them'. No way did we deserve to win that game but we were unlucky to lose it.

Vijay Badhan
66   Posted 25/09/2011 at 01:06:22

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Anthony,

I can assure you, mate, that I am a Toffee till the day I die, but I am so frustrated with the idiots we have in charge which includes David Moyes. I feel the only way I can show my feelings is not to give any more of my hard-earned cash to them.

I have never rated Moyes as he has never showed any balls with his selections and always gives the opposition too much respect, playing 5 in midfield with shit players like Osman, Neville and Hibbert still getting in the team when they are clearly cack. This will never change and I am tired off supporting a club which makes me feel depressed all the time.

We sell our best players and never buy anybody, we constantly get bullshited to by the likes of BK about stuff like the £80M ring-fenced for Kirby!! These idiots clearly don't respect the fans which they have shown time and time again so I ask you: How long do we continue to put up with this bullshit before we say enough is enough? Or do we carry on and just accept it until we are in the 4th Division.

Moyes should fuck off and take that fat shit-talking BK with him, I couldn't give a flying fuck whether he is a fan or not, as a chairman he has been detrimental to the club and Moyes has achieved fuck all in 10 years so how is he rated as one of the best in the League? The Managers who vote for him must have shit in their eyes.

Mick Davies
67   Posted 25/09/2011 at 02:30:45

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Moyes said 9 years ago, "We have to progress every season". Well we clearly havent. if he is not happy at having three players sold on deadline day why didn't he say so? If he thinks this is the best squad he has had, why is he still playing the same old hasbeens like Osman, Hibbert and sorry to say it, but the ineffective Cahill. We have better, younger players sitting on the bench, we've lost better players like Jacobsen, AJ, Ferrari, Pienaar, Fernandes, Donovan, Arteta, Beckford, Yak etc. In my opinion, Moyes is out of his depth and his moronic mate with the cheapo Allardyce earpiece is his cloned stem cell. It's all too comfortable for DM now and all he has to do is sit there and not rock the boat and he's got a well paid job for life
Ste Traverse
68   Posted 25/09/2011 at 04:44:46

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Ok,so we lost easily that has won 7 less league titles than us.

What people expect? We are 'punching above our weight' according to the brainwashed 'apologists'.
Ste Traverse
69   Posted 25/09/2011 at 04:46:43

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The above to should say we have lost easily 'to a side'.
Phil Martin
70   Posted 25/09/2011 at 05:09:19

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I don't follow Ste. You're suggesting despite our embarrassing finances and their recent £500M investment, we should be beating them? Simply because historically we were once a great club with more championships? Well the shite have twice as much as us, so I presume you expect us to lose every time we meet them?

Some of the comments on this thread are a disgrace. We're fucked because our manager has to sell his best players and cant even afford loanees
Paul Rimmer
71   Posted 25/09/2011 at 07:14:25

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Moyes' comments seem to me that he hasn't got his heart in it anymore...a white flag approach. He's done well up to the last 2 years but it's now time for change. Both he and Kenwright need to go. We are rapidly going backwards both on and off the pitch. Moyes is stale.
Derek Thomas
72   Posted 25/09/2011 at 07:21:29

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The Moyesistas are missing the point.

Yes they have invested 500M and when we beat them they had invested 150M and 300M over the 2 seasons.

So where is the tipping point?? just when did the money gap get too much? 350M 380M 410M.

No, we beat them coz Mancini didn't play the players he had properly ( and / or maybe they didn't put the effort in )

They beat us for more or less the same reason. Moyes didn't set the team out to maximise it's strengths aka not one forward.

Until he does give us this maximum advantage at the start we will never know if ' what if ' will work

Right now Me and many others and not a grade one fifa coaching badge to bless ourselves with, know ' whats not ' working.

Ultra cautious surrender monkey, making a poor situation worse.
Andy Mack
73   Posted 25/09/2011 at 07:22:27

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The thing that galls me is I don't think City played very well, but still dominated us from start to finish. I don't want any teams doing that against Everton, out of eleven players it'd be nice to have a few punches before we hit the canvas. We've a mishmash of a team these days that isn't going to trouble the pacemakers as in previous years. The result was inevitable. And this zero striker thing... A long, dull season ahead.
Eugene Ruane
74   Posted 25/09/2011 at 10:34:48

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A few (very) random thoughts.

If a 0-2 is acceptable (and it appears to our 'Presbyterian' manager it is) why not START 4-4-2 and then IF you go 2 down, revert to 4-6?

Why ALWAYS start this type of game saying 'We're going to give you NOTHING to think about defensively, see if you can score past us.

What about some sort of element of surprise?

Anyone think Mancini/City DIDN'T know what our game 'plan' was going to be yesterday?

Yes to a degree it was a case of their owner's money beating our owner's lack of money 2-0, but ffs you HAVE to give them SOMETHING to think about.

I think Napoleon said something along the lines of 'any army that tries to win a battle from a defensive position is beaten'.

(true for France in WWII and true for us yesterday).

Also there's a time factor.

If you have a couple of attackers on, you probably spend less time defending as (occasionally) you're giving the opposition problems to deal with.

So if you allow a team to attack for 90 mins instead of 75, you (surely) increase their chance of scoring.

Yes we beat them last year playing in a not dissimilar way, which is EXACTLY why we should have showed up yesterday with something different.

What was it George W said?

"Fool me once, shame on you...er...me, fool me once..um twice...no..if I fool you twice shame on you..once".

Ex-ACTLY!
Mick Fleming
75   Posted 25/09/2011 at 11:14:36

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Eugene thanks you have made my football hangover a little better. George W also said "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." More fitting for our Davey, bring a knife to a gunfight for gods sake.
Mark Stone
76   Posted 25/09/2011 at 11:35:00

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Steve Sweeney, whatever you think about Moyes, to be glad that Everton got beat is ridiculous and confirms what a lot of people have long thought about some contributors on this site.
Ian Tunstead
77   Posted 25/09/2011 at 11:38:00

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Derek,

Man City has been built from the back, the first few hundred million was mostly spent on defensive players. The tipping point was the last couple of spending sprees on top attacking players like Silva Nasri Aguaro and Bolloteli.

Mancini did play his players properly in the past when his best players were defensive, now his best players are attack minded and all match winners. If Moyes could afford those players he would have an attacking line up as well.
Brian Waring
78   Posted 25/09/2011 at 12:16:30

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Ian, how is it Fulham can have - a - go, and come back from 2 nil down?

I posted a few quotes from the Fulham v Man City game on another thread, one of them was ' Fulham still trying to find a winner as well ' Surely we're better than Fulham ? So if they can have - a - go, then why can't we?
Wayne Smyth
79   Posted 25/09/2011 at 12:32:10

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If we let this shit carry on, soon "not getting thumped away to Barnsley" will be considered a good result.

The players must believe they can beat anyone. We are talking about an Everton side full of international quality players. Fellaini, Saha, Baines, Howard, Drenthe, Distin, Cahill, Bily. I know I'd at least take some of them over what City had.

City have spent massively and they do have a massive squad, but they can only put out 11 half-motivated players on the pitch at once. They do have in Aguero and Silva two world-class players, but it is still a team effort and we can still beat that team if we apply ourselves and have a bit of belief.

If we went there with even the slightest attacking intent and played well but lost 4-1 because City have some brilliant players then we can argue that it is down to resources. I'd have taken that any day over yesterdays 2-0 loss in which the manager showed he had no backbone.

If your attitude is that you are not good enough to beat someone, even before a ball is kicked then that attitude is cancerous. It spreads and it is dangerous. I'm worried about the message this sends to our players.
Derek Thomas
80   Posted 25/09/2011 at 12:26:41

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Ian #76: So all their best players when we beat them were defensive and he played them properley...how come we beat them then.

Nah. Moyes has lost it
David Thomas
81   Posted 25/09/2011 at 13:07:08

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Andy Crooks,

You posted the night before the match that your ideal team for the match would not have Billy in it

"My ideal team would have Saha instead of Cahill and Cahill(I just have a good feeling about him tomorrow) instead of Bily"

After the game you are criticising Moyes and telling us in your opinion he should have started Billy

"What could Moyes have done differently? Well, we needed pace so Drenthe should have started. We needed guile. In the absence of Kevin Sheedy I'd start Bily."

Ciarán McGlone
82   Posted 25/09/2011 at 13:44:58

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Would those people who are defending yesterdays farce, please stop peddling the crap that we played that way last season. We've never ever only put four players in the box for a corner before. We also started with forwards in those matches.

Yesterday was a new low. If you feel the need to defend it then at least do it with some facts.
David Mathieson
83   Posted 25/09/2011 at 13:57:53

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Not only do we have a conference league team's tactics we have a large portion of the fan base with a conference league team's mentality which stems from the manager.

Have to say the people defending this conference league team cup tie style of play are no doubt the Kirkby yes voters well I have a question for you: will it be acceptable for the same team to start Derby day at home?

Moyes has not won at Anfield ever because of these lame tactics, even losing to ten men on more than one occasion.
Brian Waring
84   Posted 25/09/2011 at 14:13:48

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David, I asked that question, the reply was along the lines of, if we started with the same 11 and tactics, and beat the redshite, would the tactics still be shite?
Pol Gallagher
85   Posted 25/09/2011 at 14:03:51

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It's a sad state of affairs this once great club a size-able amount of fans have accepted that 2-0 loss against city wasn't a bad result. we didn't even try to get to forward yesterday, the result was determined before a ball was kicked. I can only see the same result next weekend, we will show the shite too much respect and fear. I cant wait to see phil neville up front in a 10-0-0.
David Mathieson
86   Posted 25/09/2011 at 14:21:36

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Brian yes the tactics would be 'shite' And the outcome of win is highly unlikely with that setup, as Moyes' Derby record proves.

Next question has to be same tactics, outcome: draw How many Kirkby yes voters would be happy with that? If there is any who would own up to it...
David Mathieson
87   Posted 25/09/2011 at 14:21:36

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Brian yes the tactics would be 'shite' And the outcome of win is highly unlikely with that setup, as Moyes' Derby record proves.

Next question has to be same tactics, outcome: draw How many Kirkby yes voters would be happy with that? If there is any who would own up to it...
Chris Stubbs
88   Posted 25/09/2011 at 15:06:42

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Tactics were bad, but how would other teams play? If anyone with even half a brain was watching, then it should tell them loud and clear that the English Premier League is a complete joke. Chelsea started "buying" success. Man City are doing it now. It means that these teams want to win everything. So where does that leave Everton and many other teams? The prize for them is not to get relegated. Survival is the same as success. I remember the years when Blackburn and Nottingham Forest came from nowhere and won the league. Derby County did it. Success came as a result of a good manager who inspired average players to perform above their levels. Now success comes as a result of a mega-rich benefactor who throws money around. So negative tactics are the only effective counter to such extravagance. Someone should look at the current state of English football and bring in some changes. Move Chelsea and Man City (and maybe Man Utd as well) to a European Super League. Reward teams with additional points when they score 3 or more goals in a match. Introduce salary caps. Reward teams who field home grown or academy produced players. In other words, level the playing field so that we can get back to a time when all 20 teams in the league could win the league. The current situation will drive supporters away. How depressing to think that we did well yesterday because we only lost 2-0 or that we held out for over an hour before they scored. But I dare say Wigan or Villa or Sunderland or Wolves or many other teams will come to Chelsea or Man City with the same lack of belief.
Ryan Holroyd
89   Posted 25/09/2011 at 15:52:58

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81 David

Correct mate. I think Andy makes it up as he goes along.

This from the man who said "Shane Duffy is Everton's greatest asset."

He's now at Scunthorpe.
Andy Crooks
90   Posted 25/09/2011 at 16:52:05

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David, had Saha started, yes, I would have preferred Cahill to Bily. He didn't.
Jimmy Sorheim
91   Posted 25/09/2011 at 19:02:56

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Agree with Andy Peers.
Tom Bowers
92   Posted 25/09/2011 at 22:03:02

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Well we have all had our say here and the general opinion is pretty conclusive.
We have a lousy squad with a lousy manager and a blase' chairman.
Question-if the next 5 games do not produce anything worthwhile will Bill still be backing Davie and will Davie still be defending his decisions and tactics?
Be sure they will. They've sold the season tickets and they're guaranteed their T.V. money so they don't really give a monkey's as long as the books look good at the end of the season.
Showing apathy has become the norm at Goodison and Kenright is wallowing in it.
Until they are both gone we will be a second rate outfit.

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