There can be few Evertonians who are looking towards the visit to Chelsea without some trepidation. Rightly so; they have quality players who, when allowed to play, can take a team apart. Parking the bus and hoping to nick a goal won't work. Neither will a gung-ho Blackpool-style effort.
John Terry is ageing and one of these days will be exposed as over the hill; they are vulnerable at the back when pressurised. We have players who can hurt them and on Saturday they must not be on the bench. I would make two changes from the Liverpool game: Drenthe and Barkley for Cahill and Osman.
We will likely be defending for long periods and we need to hit them with pace. Now is Drenthe's time. Barkley has the arrogance of youth and I doubt he will feel any fear, he can offer something different. Rodwell must see this game as a real bonus and I expect something special from him.
We have good players but a defeat similar to that against City would be unpalatable and utterly demoralizing. Keep it tight, yes, but at least start with an eleven capable of winning.
Andy Crooks, Posted 11/10/2011 at 09:27:57
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1 Posted 11/10/2011 at 16:00:34
2 Posted 11/10/2011 at 16:27:16
3 Posted 11/10/2011 at 17:18:34
We have to start involving Vellios more; I think he has the potential to be a top striker: he is mobile, no slouch, strong in the air, as well as physically strong, good on the floor & he has an eye for goal & desire to get in the box on the end of crosses. I've been impressed with him, we could have a real talent if he is coached correctly.
4 Posted 11/10/2011 at 17:49:48
I think if we go to Chelsea with the same 'nick a point' attitude we take to Old Trafford, City and Anfield, then we will again be coming home with our tails between our legs.
We have proved over the past few years that, on our day, we can beat Chelsea. While I don't for a minute believe we could or should beat them every time we play them, I don't see any reason to fear them or park the bus.
I'd like us to go out and try to play our natural game. Rodwell and Fellaini are starting to look like they can control midfield, we have dangerous players on the flanks and subs who can change games. Moyes's tic-tacs and formation are tailor-made for this type of game. The only likely issue I see is at the back. Personally, I'd bring Neville in for Hibbo, as he offers a lot more talk and organization, and Heitinga in for Jag, because he's stunk all season and it may be the kick up the arse he needs.
The poll that was run recently showed a lot of ToffeeWebbers were happy with the way the team was set out for the City game. I'd like to ask them, would you be happy to see us go to Chelsea with the same set-up and formation we took to City?
5 Posted 11/10/2011 at 18:04:37
I didn't agree with it, but was happy to see it implemented. Go figure!
6 Posted 11/10/2011 at 18:29:16
7 Posted 11/10/2011 at 19:32:37
It weren't implemented though, we got beat.
Happy, agree, support etc. splitting hairs IMO.
Would you like to see us go there and set our stall out that way again?
8 Posted 11/10/2011 at 19:37:30
Why change a formula that ALMOST saw us grab a point?
9 Posted 11/10/2011 at 19:21:54
I don't see why we should accept going down at all.
Moyes owes the Chelsea crowd nothing. His first and only obligation is to the Evertonian, to make sure Everton are always in the game, to make life as difficult as possible for Chelsea.
A game of "you play/we play" will nearly always favour the more talented team... and that ain't us.
Much has been made about our recent defeat against City, but few managers ? if any ? can match Moyes's record there in recent seasons, a record that may well have been stretched but for a poxy deflected goal and some spineless refereeing.
I`ll settle for a fair referee and a repeat of the defiance we have shown in our visits to the Bridge in recent seasons ? including last season's cup win.
Only winning counts, give me an ugly win over a pretty defeat all day long.
10 Posted 11/10/2011 at 20:09:15
11 Posted 11/10/2011 at 20:07:23
So why go ultra defensive against them all of a sudden? Everyone behind the ball at all times, lone isolated striker etc etc. Like we were shit scared of them. Did my head in.
I'm rambling. Point is, attack Chelsea. Don't shit it from the off, like against City. Fucking Mancini. He didn't beat us... Moyes did.
12 Posted 11/10/2011 at 20:25:00
13 Posted 11/10/2011 at 20:42:52
14 Posted 11/10/2011 at 21:32:20
15 Posted 11/10/2011 at 21:33:41
Our strength lies in a strong central midfiled with a whole wealth of options yet all our midfield two ever seem to do is mark space in front of the central defenders, never putting a tackle in, just running around making a bit of a nuisance. Its such a waste of Rodwell's talents.
I'd love to see a return to the formation he had out when we beat them and Man U with Arteta and Osman in the middle an two wide men. Not a holding mid in sight and our defence came out keeping hold of the ball and putting them under pressure.
16 Posted 11/10/2011 at 21:40:19
17 Posted 11/10/2011 at 22:49:59
I don't expect to see it happen though and fear it may be the third round of the FA Cup before Moyes "risks" starting Drenthe again.
18 Posted 12/10/2011 at 04:24:04
19 Posted 12/10/2011 at 05:47:28
Hibbert and Osman would not even be at the club if I was in charge, I really don't understand why so many Evertonians rate Hibbo and Osman because, every time I watch them (except for the odd game for Osman) they have been crap.
I also feel Moyes is now a hinderance to the attacking football we could be capable of playing if only he would have the bollocks to play the correct players in their natural positions but I am pretty sure he will play a 5-man midfield with one striker trying to do everything by himself and failing miserably, as we did at City and Liverpool.
I can't stop supporting this club no matter how hard I try but it angers and frustrates me that Moyes has such a negative attitude and always plays the pathetic 'poor underdog' card, I am sick of it and the predictability of it all!
For what its worth, my team would be:
Coleman, Heitinga, Distin, Baines;
Barkley, Rodwell, Fellaini, Gueye;
... even though I know there is no chance of this.
20 Posted 12/10/2011 at 06:34:50
The City game was a major disappointment. It was a drab affair from start to finish. Maybe Moyes's hands were tied, but he effectively dropped his only recognised striker for a right back in the only change to a starting 11 that won a year earlier.
We just didn't have an outlet, no pressure relief valve, and consequently had to defend for 90 mins against an admittedly improved City team. Oh and Neville was absolutely dreadful in midfield and rightly dropped for the next game.
So stick with the same team if all fully fit, and hopefully with a little more fire power upfront in Saha this time, may see us nick a draw or god willing 3 increasingly invaluable points.
21 Posted 12/10/2011 at 06:56:41
So stick with the same team if all fully fit, and hopefully with a little more fire power upfront in Saha this time, may see us nick a draw or god willing 3 increasingly invaluable points.
22 Posted 12/10/2011 at 08:23:46
I personally think we need to carry a goal threat to get anything away from home against good sides, the side put out at City didn't even look like getting in their half after 5 mins.
I'd sooner we play to win, always.
23 Posted 12/10/2011 at 08:27:42
You play/we play is a nonsense. That doesn't have to happen.
When Arsenal played Barca they thought it was a game of you play/we play. Except Barca had a game of we play/you don't play. When they had they ball they played good football and stretched Arsenal. When they lost it, they were like rabid dogs trying to get it back.
We need to try and do something similar against really good sides. It won't be easy but hoofing the ball back to the opposition constantly, defending on your 18-yard line, and having no one up top who can relieve the pressure by holding the ball up or putting their defence back with pace to chase a ball over the top just increases the likelihood of conceding.
Our defence is not good enough to play that way any more. The only game we kept a clean sheet we conceded two pens.
24 Posted 12/10/2011 at 09:27:13
I have decided to follow the lead from other Evertonians who justified Moyes's tactics against Man City. We can't expect to beat Chelsea when they've got so much money and we haven't.
In fact, because every other team in the league outspent us this summer, we shouldn't expect to beat anyone and therefore Moyes should just stick to 4-6-0.
25 Posted 12/10/2011 at 12:26:27
Just weaken the already shite midfield and play two forwards, all these international managers are fools playing their 4-5-1 (turning to 4-3-3), what do they know?
Stick to the Mike Bassett England way of four four fecking two....it always works in the Euros and the World Cup when we come up against good sides.....
26 Posted 12/10/2011 at 12:39:33
27 Posted 12/10/2011 at 12:44:23
Who are you ranting at???
I've just gone right through this thread and can't find one person who says "just fecking go for it" or play "4-4-2"
28 Posted 12/10/2011 at 13:14:58
Despite Moyes's stubborness with his tactics and team selection we may again frustrate Chelski but we cannot concede early and have to chase the game because they will then bury us.
The new boys have to start but Moyes will resist it again, staying with his favourites and therefore it will be a nailbiting game as long as we are in it.
I would like to think we can turn a corner which would be great but common sense says we are a limited team and good results will be few and far between this season.
29 Posted 12/10/2011 at 13:23:37
30 Posted 12/10/2011 at 13:38:04
More often than not, Moyes's selection of players to play in the postions doesn't make sense. The constant playing of Osman out wide where the lad has no pace just doesn't cut it.
Neville Jagielka Distin Baines
A line up like above would give us balance going forward. Take your pick of Ossie or Barkley to play the creative role. Just play players in their best positions.
31 Posted 12/10/2011 at 13:49:50
32 Posted 12/10/2011 at 14:07:23
33 Posted 12/10/2011 at 14:40:31
When really stretching the imagination I believe it is sometimes possible to compare Evertons work ethic when we dont have the ball to that of Barca`s, but no matter how hard I try I cant make any comparrison between the two teams when in possession.
If Barca are your yardstick, you`ll continue to be dissapointed.
Nobody moaned when Moyes sent a side out without Beckford, Saha and Yakubu at Eastlands last season, nor did anyone complain about him employing similar tactics twice at the Bridge. The complaints only started when after 4 years of huffing and puffing city finally beat us - and how poxy was that ?
I believe a cavalry charge against top teams to be tantamount to surrender, they dont even do it when they play each other.
Of course we can play - we are going have too - but to win this game we first need to stay in it.
You say we are no longer defensively good enough, but we are still defending with the same players that got us results there last season.
That said, I would agree with you about Jagielka and start with JH.
Its all about results, if we win nobody will care how, if we dont . .
34 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:03:09
Hibbert Jagielka Distin Baines
Coleman Barkley Rodwell Drenthe
35 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:46:43
36 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:22:01
37 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:15:50
I just hope he at least starts with some attacking outlet up top and not Cahil on his own so as to relieve some of the pressure on the defence and give their defenders something to think about.
Problem with playing ultra defensive is that the team is forced to defend for long periods and eventually just becomes knacked with the inevitable goal coming after an hour or so.
Hope we nick something there - regardless of the tactics employed.
38 Posted 12/10/2011 at 17:56:13
Therefore, the team and tactics should be set out at least with the intent of scoring at least one goal. That means there has to be a striker (a proper one, not a midfielder) on the pitch at all times.
I can't be bothered checking, but we probably havent had a striker on the pitch for a full 90 minutes this season, have we?
39 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:30:14
As I said, I don't want gung ho, like you I don't give a fuck if the Chelsea fans are entertained, If, though, we start with the same attitude as we did against City, then we will hand them three points and that will be entertainment enough for them.
If we start with Cahill as a lone "striker", then Dave, I will fucking spontaneously combust.
40 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:53:35
My only concern is that, with the bad luck we've had recently, the lads might be low on the confidence side.
I agree with those that say we need to put on fast flair players (not that we have an abundance of them), so that we can break and exploit their weak defence.
We have a strong defence, but that's no use for 90 minutes when we have nothing in the final third to break with.
41 Posted 12/10/2011 at 19:01:22
42 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:40:08
Definitely worth a pound on it though.
43 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:55:55
44 Posted 13/10/2011 at 00:01:46
Cahill (as much as I love the guy) does not hold the ball up. As soon as he gets it, he's always looking for the quick pass, which isn't an option when the rest of the team sits as deeply as they did versus City.
Cahill doesn't run at the opposition with the ball or occupy defenders in the way Anichebe did against City last season to create space for others, he's not a lone striker, never will be because he's played as an attacking midfielder for the last 15 years. He is good in the air & is at his best attacking from behind the striker, not leading the line.
I can change a lightbulb but it doesn't mean I can suddenly do the same job as an electrician who has been doing it for 15 years.
45 Posted 12/10/2011 at 23:49:09
46 Posted 13/10/2011 at 01:23:33
47 Posted 13/10/2011 at 10:26:34
48 Posted 13/10/2011 at 10:57:02
49 Posted 13/10/2011 at 12:13:58
I know you guys are going to say we don't have a goal threat but we do: Saha, he showed glimpses of his old self in the derby before knobhead put an end to the game.
Also Norwich gave them a game at home til our old boy keeper got sent off.
I think we'll do better there than in the Carling Cup although they'll probably put a second string team out in that.
50 Posted 13/10/2011 at 12:51:42
1: Has not scored since 20th December 2010
2: Questionable footballing ability and is not effective or quick enough as a lone striker to hold up the ball.
3: Our football improves when he is not in the team.
Further to Andy's post #47 I don't think he is suited to being the midfielder behind the 1 anymore either.
51 Posted 13/10/2011 at 13:25:26
We have to hope the usual suspects who start play 100% and do the job. You know however if they score first then we have no plan ''B'' except desperation when he will throw on Drenthe & Co.
52 Posted 13/10/2011 at 13:34:05
I enjoyed the rant but would have finished it with a Homer Simpson style, "now that's sarcasm"
Marge: Try to be nice to my sisters. It's very hard on me to have you fighting all the time.
Homer: Oh, OK Marge, I'll get along with them. Then, I will hug some snakes! Yes, I will hug and kiss some poisonous *snakes*!
Homer: Now that's sarcasm.
53 Posted 13/10/2011 at 14:23:48
I agree, Cahill is not a striker never will be, but I`m not sure what you mean about sending out a "we are shit scared of you" message.
Cahill may not be a natural striker but I doubt there's a defender in world football who isn't a little nervous when he's around... and are you suggesting that by selecting Vic last season Moyes was sending a snarling "right you Manc fuckers, Vic's gonna have you"? I`m no Vic basher but I`ll bet the City players were more worried about our "Midfielder" ... despite the results.
The Chelseas and Citys of this world have incredible competition for places and most of their players will be too worried about their own selection to give any "message" we send a second thought. Our team selection will not alter the way they play.
For what its worth, I believe Saha will play on Saturday
Andy #38 ? Negative? not at all. I`m not going to the Bridge filled with "trepidation". There's more than one way to skin a cat.
54 Posted 13/10/2011 at 18:32:06
The formation with Anichebe meant we had a natural striker who does the things like holding the ball up, occupying defenders, creating space which worked and as you say the key point being we got a result. When we send out a team without a recognised striker, we are making it pretty clear the aim is to defend deeply & hoof the ball out to Cahill who, even if wins the ball, has no-one supporting him, so the ball comes straight back at us. Cahill is a real threat to teams coming from deep behind a striker, not on his own.
55 Posted 13/10/2011 at 19:19:34
Incidentally, why don't you write a report after the game? ToffeeWeb is divided three ways: pro-Moyes, anti-Moyes and Wilsonites.
56 Posted 14/10/2011 at 08:46:15
"When really stretching the imagination, I believe it is sometimes possible to compare Everton's work ethic when we don't have the ball to that of Barca's"
Do you need to be especially skillful or a great footballer to be able to match Barca's work ethic? IMO a high level of fitness and good organization by our supposedly great manager should see us match them for endeavour at least?
"Nobody moaned when Moyes sent a side out without Beckford, Saha and Yakubu at Eastlands last season, nor did anyone complain about him employing similar tactics twice at the Bridge"
You're dead right. Because we had a player who is a proven goalscorer when played in his proper position playing behind a big striker who had one of his best games ever until he got sent off. Are you trying to tell me that was the case the other week?
I also remember a brilliant passing move that saw our left back burst into their box and bury one with his bad foot. How can that happen if we're all camped in our half, terrified to have a go because our manager says were not good enough to compete? We also hit them on the break and put them under serious pressure from set pieces last time we won there; the other week we sent four players up for a corner, our best chance of a goal.
Their win wasn't a poxy one. They battered us from 5 mins to 95 mins and had chance after chance. The fact that the first goal came from a mistake is irrelevant, mistakes happen when you ask players to defend constantly for 90 mins.
I'm not expecting us to "go down fighting" ? I'm expecting us to go and try and win the game and see what comes of it. That way you have a chance. To wait to be put to the sword guarantees one thing.
We have players who can keep the ball and move it about, we can play to feet and retain possesion, we have goalscorers in our side when they play in thier proper position, and we are dangerous from the flanks and at crosses. We also have a pair who are starting to look very dominant in the midlle of the park.
When we lose the ball, let's defend like our lives depend on it; that's to be expected away from home against really good sides but, when we get it back, let's use it to the best of our ability, which is a lot more than a 70-yard hoof.
57 Posted 14/10/2011 at 11:31:05
He may not have scored for a bit but neither have a lot of players. Torres would've been dropped long before he finally scored recently, if that's only what players are judged on, and he is an actual striker ? Tim isn't.
Saha upfront supported by Tim would not be an enjoyable partnership for Terry and Co. We all have our opinion though, so all who say that Tim shouldn't start ? I'm not saying you're wrong... but, in my opinon, if Tim is fit, he starts everytime.
58 Posted 14/10/2011 at 12:14:09
It reminds me of the Fred Astaire reference: Can't sing, can't act, can dance a little...
59 Posted 14/10/2011 at 12:45:05
60 Posted 14/10/2011 at 14:30:51
Nobody hates hoofball more than I do, I`ve always pointed the finger at Jagielka as chief culprit, but I see Moyes's dilemma. If he leaves him out, our football will improve instantly... but let's be fair here, whenever we have had good results against the top boys, Jagielka's defending has usually been one of the main reasons.
I also agree with you about Big Vic at City, but Moyes is in a no-win situation here, you've heard the outcry when Big Vic starts. Imagine what it would be like if he started and we lost?
Moyes obviously doesn't trust Vellios yet. Hopefully Saha will play tomorrow...
"Wilsonites" ? LOL I think I`m generally in a minority of one.
Despite Neville's penalty heroics last time, he's had some real Westons at Chelsea and I wouldn't let him near the place. Agree with you about Drenthe but I think the Chelsea midfield may be too powerful and have too much know-how for Barkley at this stage of his career. It would be nice if he came on and did something out of the ordinary to win it for us though.
Roddders also appears to have found some aggression, that can only be good news.
Louis up top for me!
61 Posted 15/10/2011 at 20:16:20
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