The team is only heading in one direction and that?s down. There is no confidence in the players, Moyes has instilled the thought that we can?t compete, we aren?t creative, and that the only possible way forward is to defend for our lives and hope to snatch a goal ? either by a set piece or by pure luck.
Who is playing well? ? you tell me!
Howard ? flapping again
Jagielka ? completely not at the races
Baines ? has forgotten how to defend
Coleman ? where has the blistering pace and bravado gone?
Rodwell ? reminds me of Ray Wilkins, 14 passes square to everyone forward
Fellaini ? just had enough and can?t wait to leave
Osman ? go and become a jockey, too lightweight
Cahill ? body can?t cope
Saha ? body never coped, and desperately needs a mate up with him
Bily ? haven?t got a clue whether he?ll ever make it as a Premier League player
Jury is still out with Drenthe (is he disciplined enough?), Barkley (too young, isn?t good enough to play for U-21s), Vellios (at least he?s scoring) and Stracqualursi.
I know people wont like me stating this but it?s time to bring Neville back in. He is the only true leader we?ve got and we need someone out there to take control and get the above shower into some sort of team ? one in which we don?t concede goals. Not pretty I know but if we carry on like this we?ll be staring relegation in the face and on current form we are not good enough to get out of it.
It's driving me mad watching the likes of Newcastle, Liverpool, Stoke, etc giving the Top 4 a tough time, playing the games as they want to win and not just hoping for a creditable draw. For the first time in my 55-year career of following Everton, I can't be bothered trying my best to get to the game, listen to the game or stream the game ? it's just too pitiful to watch.
Mike Oates, Posted 16/10/2011 at 22:21:04
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1 Posted 17/10/2011 at 08:19:05
2 Posted 17/10/2011 at 08:44:22
1) Remove Jagielka from defence and replace with Heitinga.
2) Give Howard the captain's armband as he will never be dropped by Moyes and looks to me the only one who does motivate and talk.
3) Remove Osman (too slow and weak) from the team and replace with Drenthe
4) Remove Cahill (too slow/ injured?) from the team and replace with Barkley.
5) Give Neville a headset and put him in a tracksuit until his contract runs out.
3 Posted 17/10/2011 at 09:06:39
4 Posted 17/10/2011 at 09:47:51
Heitinga needs to start playing, he gives 100% and can actually pass out of defence.
Drenthe has pace and the ability to run at players, we need this and a run in the team will see him improve. Osman has had an awful season so far.
If Cahill is scoring, then it?s hard to argue about his failings (lack of pace or creativity) but he hasn?t scored this calendar year and doesn?t bring much else to the party and so Barkley, who has showed promise this year needs to be given a run.
I would add to that Vellios. Someone stated in another thread that surely it makes more sense to start Vellios (who looks like he has a goal in him) and bring Saha on as an impact sub.
Things are not going well and changes need to be made!
5 Posted 17/10/2011 at 10:31:00
6 Posted 17/10/2011 at 10:23:45
I don't want to get in to another player-bashing comment but the teams I consider to be our main rivals challenging for a top 7 spot, Villa, Spurs, Liverpool, Fulham and probably Arsenal, would they touch Hibbert or Osman? No! So why are they walking in to our 1st team when we have better players than them?
We have John Heitinga on the bench! He played for Atletico Madrid at right back, he will leave us soon if he doesn't get played ? and quite rightly! He is a quality defender and he must be looking at what's getting in the team in front of him and want to cry. I know I am!
I still think Moyes is the man for the job (tell me who could do any better and who would actually come to us?) but his blind loyalty to players who aren't good enough for Everton Football Club is starting to grate. For what it's worth, this is the team I would go for when all fit:
Howard; Heitinga, Jagielka, Distin, Baines; Coleman, Fellaini, Rodwell, Barkley; Cahill, Saha. If Neville plays I would drop Distin for Heitinga and put Phil right back.
7 Posted 17/10/2011 at 10:52:03
8 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:03:43
so now the team are trying...wise up.
9 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:01:38
Yes, there is an awful lot else wrong with the team besides his body language. We can't defend straight balls. We can't defend crosses. We can't defend as a team. Their third goal was a disgrace ? not a single attempted tackle.
I blame the manager for the mistakes as much as the players. For some reason, the basics have gone out of the window.
However, to deal with this, we must start defending as a team. Ergo, team spirit and body language needs to be dealt with. If Fellaini has his mind on a move, he needs to be dropped for the sake of the team. Morale is everything when you are in a bad run.
So yes, Neville back in for Fellaini. We will moan and groan at his lack of ability, but one thing's for sure: his mind will not be anywhere else.
10 Posted 17/10/2011 at 10:58:16
Our only hope is that Moyes spews it and we get an ATTACK-minded coach in, who instills to the players how to pass the ball, move for each other, and not to fucking HOOF it!
11 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:12:33
my previous post ( 8 ) should have read "not trying"
12 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:05:15
I EXPECT ALL poorly performing players to be dropped, regardless of favouritism.
I EXPECT players of any age to get game time if they are clearly better than the current underperforming dross witnessed.
I also EXPECT that Moyes will do nothing but churn out the same outdated tactics for which he no longer has the correct personnel, with the same burnt-out useless players.
13 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:00:28
14 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:00:23
What do you expect from him, to go end to end with the likes of Man City, Chelsea etc? What do you think would happen? We would win 4-3 or the other way about? No, most of the time we would get stuffed.
This is where we are, and I think Moyes has proved over the years he knows what he's doing 95% of the time ? all managers make mistakes.
Moyes more than anyone has raised the expectation bar at Everton. What I admire about him is he just gets on with it, and per usual, results will improve. Keep doing the Euro lotto and if you win anything big, you could lend the club a few quid.
15 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:49:34
So, yes, I would put Neville in the holding role.... Now who could be our playmaker? Mmmmmmm????.
16 Posted 17/10/2011 at 11:50:47
Moyes is an idiot of the highest order at times... Don't get me wrong ? we've had 3 very difficult games and an unfortunate sending off against Liverpool but he makes predictable, negative team selections. Let me take Osman as an example: everyone knows he is no good out wide, especially against top teams like Chelsea. So what does Moyes do? ? play him left-mid again after years of watching him struggle there and being a very limited threat!
It's not as if we don't have options, we've got Royston Drenthe, a natural pacy left sided player who co-incicentally came on ran to the bye-line and put a cross in for the goal. Now answer me how many times did we see Osman do this in the game? And we've got Gueye too who I have no doubt would be more of a threat on the left than Osman but Moyes would see this as too much of a gamble I suppose.
As for Vellios, if he doesn't start the next game, he should tell Moyes to fuck off as he deserves to start ahead of Saha ? end of. Oh Mr Moyes, get a grip or leave; I'm fed up of watching your ineffective, boring and negative football that is draining morale and confidence out of the fans and players.
17 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:07:11
18 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:11:26
Rodwell and Fellaini cannot play together. I would have Fellaini and Neville together in a two-man central midfield partnership, with Drenthe, Cahill and Osman in an attacking line of three with Vellios leading the line.
19 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:36:55
I mean the tactical approach throughout suggested winning wasn't expected. We went to draw. Then to keep the score down.
20 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:42:58
I agree, one thing is certain with Moyes if you don't try, he will have no time for you.
Regards tactics, as I have said in a previous post, the manager has what he has and that's it. And yes, most of the time, he will set up not to lose a game. He picks a team after seeing what it offered in training all week, and yes, who he trusts. What else can he do?
21 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:36:37
Moyes is 100% culpable for the ins and outs of playing staff, he himself has said he is in complete control. If we are lacking in any areas, it is his fault.
This is a man that reels out the "we have no money" excuse when we lose and yet tells everyone just how brilliant Kenwright and the board are.
I agree that he has raised expectations but I don't expect to beat everyone in the league, I do however expect a manager being paid £65k a week to see the wood for the trees, to not pretend he is infallable and to start dropping players who need resting.
22 Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:56:39
Jagielka has been the worse player this season. It's time for a Heitinga to get a run in his best and prefered position alongside Distin. The defense certainly needs freshing up. Trouble is, everyones knows Howard will start if fit as will Baines. I would actually think about Jagielka at right back (not brilliant going forward but which Everton right backs are?), I remember Jagielka having an excellent game at right back in a nil-nil draw at Stoke about 2 years ago. That might give the defense an extra edge of freshness and stability as well as aerial ability (Hibbert doesn't have the latter).
Quite worrying times overall. It kind of feels a point at Fulham will be worthwhile considering the next home league game (Man Utd) and not forgetting a home cup tie against a team who have have just showed us how to play football. How bad will the atmosphere be going into the Man Utd game knowing we have just been knocked out the cup early doors yet again?
23 Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:07:33
Your comments were spot on.
One expects to see one's team "try" to win games (which is not the same as saying players themselves are not trying in the way your words were misconstrued) as opposed to merely "try" to contain the opposition.
We are going to lose that way anyway, so may as well lose whilst actually "trying" to win the blooming game.
24 Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:05:20
25 Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:20:27
Complete conjecture I'm afraid. We haven't faired to well away from home against the "big" boys in Moyes tenure doing the opposite of what you suggest anyway, have we?
26 Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:29:48
So let's go out and have a go, Wigan style... and we will get all the plaudits and keep everyone happy.
No thanks, I would rather we finish as high up the table as possible and grab whatever £s we can for doing so.
Also, you said the following of Moyes: "If we are lacking in any areas, it is his fault." ? How do you work that out? And tell me your team for Fulham when your at it.
27 Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:59:08
At no point did I advocate "going all out Wigan style" or whatever nonsense you put in your #15 post. I even pointed out that you had made it up in your head (#22 and #25) as I never said anything of the sort yet you were quick to attribute it to me to suit your own, extremely questionable, stance.
Oliver, take a deep breath, and READ PROPERLY what is in front of you. I have already answered the "If we are lacking in any areas, it is his fault." question the SENTENCE BEFORE the one you quoted from, FFS.
I dont want to patronise people on hear but what other option am I left with when faced with such ilogical thinking??
28 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:15:48
I'm happy with my replies to you, and please tell me your team for Fulham since you know so much.
29 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:24:09
30 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:22:12
31 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:29:53
and your team selection for Fulham is?
32 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:32:49
Power, pace and skill, attack is the best form of defence. That leaves a bench that are now only able to give 45 minutes max, yet still could change things if needed. Come on, David ? let's break the shackles and go for it for once.
33 Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:53:31
What else can he do? Drop out-of-form players and let someone else have a chance? Not wholesale changes to the first eleven mind you but one or two. Show these players that he trust so much that they have broken his trust in them and they need to earn it back.
And at the same time show some trust in his other squad members and play them. It's his choice they are in the squad in the first place so he mush have seen something in them and trust them to a certain extent.
34 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:45:14
35 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:47:37
36 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:49:37
Moyes will pick:
37 Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:57:18
38 Posted 17/10/2011 at 15:02:55
39 Posted 17/10/2011 at 15:06:12
40 Posted 17/10/2011 at 15:11:03
41 Posted 17/10/2011 at 15:21:46
42 Posted 17/10/2011 at 15:18:01
Baines, Heitinga, Distin, Hibbert.
Gueye, Barkely/Neville, Fellaini,Drenthe
4-4-2 formation with Vellios right behind Straq and Straq as a target man to knock down high balls for Vellios who then scores a double against Fulham. Now that is what I call great Football.
My view is that we need a new formation, and we need to stick with it. I have been waiting for Moyes to find this out but he still has not played like I want him to.
It is difficult to choose between Rodwell,Hibbert and Neville, as to who will play and where. Defensively Hibbert is a better tackler than Neville, Neville backs off way too often for me to pick him in defense.
I agree in that Neville has leadership and also that we need a replacement for Carsley. What Carsley did so well was that he broke attacks and stole the ball all in one move and he was also good at passing it quickly forward to a teammate.
I doubt Neville could do the same as him, but he has leadership and determination wich we lack in midfield now.
Barkley is a bright prospect and I belive Moyes was smart to hide him when the transfer roumors started going wild. Now they are quiet again and therefore he should go straight into the team against Fulham replacing Rodwell who was poor at Chelsea.
I pray for Moyes to go with my choices but I am not expecting anything. We need a change in defence,midfield and up front. Jags, Rodwell, and Saha-HAHAHA needs a break. If Moyes does not make these 3 changes, then I most certainly will say fuck off to him staying here. Moyes needs to know that we are not pleased with what he has performed so far this season, if he does not change things around now then he has lost all will to win in my opinion!!!
43 Posted 17/10/2011 at 16:55:41
With regards to Neville, is it any coincidence that our results are better with him in the side? Good organisation, great leader, and always willing to put a big tackle in to get the team/crowd going.
44 Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:27:15
45 Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:43:17
46 Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:59:28
47 Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:56:42
48 Posted 17/10/2011 at 18:52:21
49 Posted 17/10/2011 at 18:56:09
Fellaini and Rodwell look shit and uninspired...when they get the ball there's no one up front to pass it to. Hence it goes sideways.
And Neville can do one!!!
50 Posted 17/10/2011 at 19:35:21
David Moyes is finished at Everton. He will never improve on what he has done. He built a squad that he was pleased with,spent the money available and came up short.What has happened this season is indefensible. Inept tactics,mind boggling decisions, poor team selection,substitutions that are so bizarre as to raise questions about his basic competence.
Time for him to go and to take Round with him. The only thing I fear more than him going ,is him going and the cretinous phoney that is Kenwright appointing Round as caretaker. That would indeed be the end of Everton
51 Posted 17/10/2011 at 20:48:45
Or was it more of a shithouse negative move, to just try for damage limitations?
52 Posted 17/10/2011 at 20:56:40
53 Posted 17/10/2011 at 23:12:36
Hibbert is not Prem.class and never was.
Let's at least go back to Coleman at right back with Neville in place of Osman.We lack strength in midfield and it was oh so apparent against Chelsea. How much longer will Moyes persist with these underachievers? Most of the knowledgeable fans all seem to agree who the deadbeats are and that new blood has to be infused to give a lot of opposition managers a different look as they all know how to deal with Everton's tactics these days. The high ball to Cahill,Fellaini and Saha just doesn't work anymore. Look what happened when Drenthe slipped in a low ball to Vellios-goal!!!!!!!
54 Posted 18/10/2011 at 10:19:18
It all boils down to money and well you know it.
I have said Moyes makes mistakes like all managers and yes Brian @ 51- I do believe it was damage limitation when he brought Neville on.
Perhaps he knew the team were flagging and needed leadership qualities,thats the call he made.
Andy, name me a better manager than Moyes for Everton right now.
If Moyes had the money it could well be a different story..
55 Posted 18/10/2011 at 10:42:32
56 Posted 18/10/2011 at 12:02:33
57 Posted 18/10/2011 at 22:14:25
Neville ( Player Manager)
58 Posted 18/10/2011 at 23:04:37
We'd probably score more if either of them could muster a shot. No, we have two of the best young mids in europe apparently and yet we're getting ran through, quite simply they offer nothing in attack or defence, they can't play together. Osman and Carsley were a better midfield partnership and the results prove that.
59 Posted 19/10/2011 at 07:55:23
60 Posted 19/10/2011 at 18:52:47
I have no objection to people disageeing with my views but then to state that I know nothing about football - needs readdressing .
I played semi-pro for 10 years and then captained a good level amateur team and then managed / coached at Youth Level for a Semi-Pro team - so I know only true well what a " good leader" can do for you on the pitcc.
Now go and play with your X-Box
61 Posted 20/10/2011 at 03:45:34
62 Posted 22/10/2011 at 10:36:08
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