Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Internet minority?

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Apart from his new colleagues, I haven't found anything or anyone who sees the return of the Scottish Rooney as anything other than a backward step. Nor can I find anyone who thinks the performances from Everton this season have been anything other than woeful (Villa game apart and even then we blew it).

However, I still see comments on this site and elsewhere stating that these views are a bitter minority and that the majority are still behind Moyes and the Board. I suppose the evidence for this is the lack of dissent at home games ?

Whilst there are regular contributors who are typically in one camp or another, I for one will be interested to see what happens over the next few weeks. If indeed the true litmus test of support or dissent is the home crowd's reaction, then upcoming games against Chelsea and Man U may provide the answer, especially as Billy BS's face goes back up on the screen...

Steve Guy, Harrogate     Posted 18/10/2011 at 13:18:18

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Chris Sillett
1   Posted 18/10/2011 at 16:22:49

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When I first heard about McFadden coming back, I was shocked. I couldn't understand why we would want a 28-year-old who has been injured for a year and wasn't even that great in his first spell here (apart from a couple of great goals).

Now I have accepted the fact that we won't be signing anyone much better, unless it's on loan like Drenthe, in January and we might be needing him during the Christmas period knowing our luck with injuries.

Who knows? The guy could come on for the last 15 minutes at Anfield or at home versus Man Utd and score a winner... then we will be hailing his signing as a masterstroke!
David Crowe
2   Posted 18/10/2011 at 17:33:42

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The majority back moyes and want the board out. They're seperate entities. Don't try and pass them off as one problem.
Andy Crooks
3   Posted 18/10/2011 at 17:34:30

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I reckon we are a couple of dire performances away from Moyes out chants. The reservoir of goodwill he seems to have built up most surely be nearly empty.Neville for Cahill must have stunned even his staunchest supporters.
I heard him being lauded again on five live last night and wonder how these pundits become pundits. They are an admiration society.
Steve Guy
4   Posted 18/10/2011 at 17:39:00

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David, that's sort of my point. How do you know and how do you quantify it ? My PERCEPTION is that the majority view on Internet sites has been anti Kenwright in the main for a while and is increasingly fed up with Moyes' tactics and results. However the naysayers to this say as you do. Anecdotally as of the last Home game, the majority of the crowd don't appear to be getting on either Kenwright's back or Moyes', but is that the "majority" view ? I would take the point that internet chat won't affect very much except allowing a vent for personal feelings. From experience it is the crowd's view at Goodison Park which will dictate in the end, whether that's the majority's view or not.
Trevor Mackie
5   Posted 18/10/2011 at 17:45:38

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David Crowe

You're wrong.

They're both pretenders, people know it but don't like to admit they've been duped.

People aren't giving it the "look after 10 games shite" like last year - "you can fool some of the people etc".

This Moyes garbage is on it's last legs.
Richard Dodd
6   Posted 18/10/2011 at 18:33:49

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I have always been and will remain a supporter of both Moyes and Kenwright.Neither is without fault but they have served our club well and continue to do so.But now,more than ever,I find myself in the minority,at work,at leisure and on the internet.
I sense very much that many of my fellow Evertonians are bored and feel it`s time for a change.More bad results will increase the pressure for action.Sad,but so is soccer these days!
James Stewart
7   Posted 18/10/2011 at 19:31:43

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Moyes is becoming increasingly and worryingly more inept with every game. Set up to fail against city. Spared criticism in the derby by the red card and completely out to sea tactically at chelsea.

Moyes is one track minded and quite frankly I have had enough of his defeatist dross.
Tom Bowers
8   Posted 18/10/2011 at 20:08:33

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Totally agree guys! The time has come. Oh sure we can say again just a few more games and we can turn it around.
It just never happens at least not with any sign we are becoming a better team.
This squad doesn't have it and neither does Moyes. It's been 10years for pete's sake so how many more?
The record away from home against the top teams has been abyssmal in the last 5 years. The Mcfadden deal is just desperation and will not change anything.
Gareth Hughes
9   Posted 18/10/2011 at 20:52:19

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Richard Dodd; the fact you refer to football as 'soccer' tells us all we need to know about you! No real footy fan ever calls it that, unless they are Yanks. You sir, are just a fake
Jimmy Sorheim
10   Posted 18/10/2011 at 20:52:42

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I see that Moyes DID well for us in the beginning, but that was then and this is now.
Moyes must be forced out by fans, it is as easy as that!
Problem as one of you said is that the majority dont dare do anything for fear or for not beliveing there are anyone better than him.
I would go for a safe approach then, either apply Neville or Stubbs to the new posistion as manager.
Neville would be my first choice, and remember other clubs such as CHelsea has done it so why cant we?
Duncan Ferguson would be my dream choice, I would be over the moon to see him as our manager!!! Who knows we might be better off with either of them then Moyes. Anyway for the now we need to get a win against Fulham, if we dont get a result there we will be crushed and it will take a loooong time for us to recover. After January perhaps.
Dave Wilson
11   Posted 18/10/2011 at 20:28:54

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Every Evertonian can see fault in Moyes. The belief that they can't is both ill informed and rather insulting to the intelligence of fellow blues

The matchgoer is not slow to vent his anger at substanded performances from the players or the manager, but the appreciation shown by the crowd at the end of last season demonstrated they understood the straight jacket Davey Moyes is forced to work in. They didnt need any "revelations" to tell them we werer wiped out skint, most of them knew years ago. that doesnt blind them to Moyes`s faults, but it does mean they will continue to cut him a lot of slack.

When those who can't accept ANY reason offered in defence of Moyes when things go wrong , or cant give him ANY credit when things go right, are described as "The bitter minority" should that really come as a surprise ?

Anger , bitterness and a determination to lay all of our clubs problems at the doorstep of one man is probably the reason why they are referred to as "bitter"

The belief that getting rid of Moyes will suddenly cure our problems is imo almost certainly the reason why they are believed to be in the "minority"
Peter Fearon
12   Posted 18/10/2011 at 19:11:04

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The fact that we did not get results against Man City, Liverpool or Chelsea is not actually that worrying. If those results weren't consecutive we wouldn't be talking about a crisis. It's the craven and toothless performances that have been worrying. I don't think we would have beaten a Championship side with what we were doing against Man City or Chelsea. Just as worrying is the fact that David Moyes shows no sign of changing his tactics or his line up and claims he believes we actually played well in those games. He sure wasn't watching from where I was watching.
Robbie Riddal
13   Posted 18/10/2011 at 21:13:15

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I hope they don't flash Kenwright's big fat mush up on the big screen as I fear inevitably there will be jeers, which would only serve to underline the fickle nature of football fans.

It's clear that the applause which drowned out the cheers last time was a tribalistic response rather than a ringing endorsement for how the useless bastard has actually performed in his capacity as Chairman.
Robbie Riddal
14   Posted 18/10/2011 at 21:16:20

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* drowned out the jeers, rather!
Dennis Stevens
15   Posted 18/10/2011 at 21:06:51

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Gareth, the term "soccer" dates back to the 19th century & is English in origin - from the same sort of Public School / Univeristy slang that produced the term "rugger". It only really became asscociated with 'Yanks' in the last few decades as the term was widely used there to differentiate from their own peculiar brand of football. The use of the term was once common in Britain, but has diminished somewhat over the same period, perhaps in part due to the perceived Americanisationof the term. Having said that, I don't much care for it.
Nick Entwistle
16   Posted 18/10/2011 at 21:19:58

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Gareth Hughes, soccer was a common term for football used by fans in an age when Everton were successful.
Andy Peers
17   Posted 18/10/2011 at 21:21:13

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Peter Fearon #11 you are spot on. Trouble is now we have no confidence going into Fulham away and the drubbing, at home, that Utd. will put on us. Rooney will probably score a hatrick and the stands will be calling for heads to roll.

Logically I think Moyes should finish the season out, and do what he did when he got here, and save us from relegation. It is to the point were I am trying to find 3 teams worse than us and that is about as hard as beating Liverpool at Anfield.
Nick Entwistle
18   Posted 18/10/2011 at 21:26:29

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And Jimmy S, Big Dunc? Neville, Stubbs? One complete lunacy, the talismanic appointment has had its day in professional sport, the others about as sensible as Newcastle hiring Shearer.
Martin Graves
19   Posted 18/10/2011 at 22:09:50

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First of all, I dont understand all these people saying 'well we lost against city, Liverpool and chelsea' because that was 7 points last year. Secondly, love them or hate them, im on the position where I think most fans are slowly transgressing. Ive been a ST holder 26 years, am only 30 years old, and am used to going to 10-15 away games a year. This year, I am fed up. I havent been bothered going the 'distance' away games, I cant be bothered going the home cup games (why not charge 10 quid against chelski and get the old lady rocking). In my opinion, my type of support is the type everton cant afford to lose. Well tough. Im sick of it. Sick of the '3 buyers lined up' line whenever we possibly talk of a takeover, im sick of it. Whenever a story comes out that maybe we were approached by billionnaires, kenwright comes out and states he didnt go with that because the timing wasnt right, blah blah blah, im sick of it. Love him or hate him, these new financial rules will cripple us. We need to move on, its almost as if the owners are holding on until the 25 year loans expire, until we cant breathe anymore, until they can realise a profit, fucking just wont happen. Bill, I beg you, if you love the club, set it free
Jimmy Sorheim
20   Posted 18/10/2011 at 23:20:45

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To what? Bankrupcy?
John Daley
21   Posted 18/10/2011 at 23:58:51

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"Duncan Ferguson would be my dream choice, I would be over the moon to see him as our manager!!!"

Don't know if you've seen this already Jimmy, but it might cheer you up a bit:
'The 39-year-old retired from football five years ago and moved to Spain, returning to Goodison Park only occasionally such as for his induction into the Everton Hall of Fame in 2009. Recently, however, he has been seen patrolling the academy pitches at the club's Finch Farm training complex, having stunned David Moyes by asking for work at his former club as he takes his coaching qualifications.

"I have to say I didn't foresee him going into coaching when I had him as a player," the Everton manager said. "But Duncan has been away for five years and I think he misses the smell of football a wee bit."

Ferguson is not employed by Everton in an official capacity but has been assisting Alan Irvine, the club's academy manager, for several weeks. Moyes said: "Duncan came back about a month ago and met me. He wants to watch and see what's going on. He is back and helping Alan Irvine. He is not a qualified coach yet because he is going through his badges, but we have got him in and he's happy to do the time and he is working down at the academy.

"He is showing he really wants to do it. What I have to say is he is putting the hours and the effort in. He still has to get his B licence and A licence but he is shadowing Alan. He is out and about helping some of the younger teams here, he will get the chance to take some sessions." '
Derek Thomas
22   Posted 19/10/2011 at 00:16:42

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0.02% my arse; 58% of over 4000 voted agin Moyeses tactics Vs City. That is a statically viable number. Polls of less than that are used to predict by-elections with 100,000 voters.. A tipping point has been reached, mush more of this shite and it will surface at the ground.
Eric Myles
23   Posted 19/10/2011 at 01:36:47

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I don't think we'll hear much in the way of protest at the home games because the 5~6,000 that are fed up with it all are staying away from the games.
Mike Elbey
24   Posted 19/10/2011 at 08:21:35

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Eric, spot on. Its 5-6,000 this year and next year will be another 5-6,000 and this will continue for a few years until we are down to about 15-20,000 for home games. People say that Evertonians dont do protests and marches, they may be right, but one thing they do do is, once the 'cammels back' has been broken so to speak, is stop going. It happened in the late 70's early 80's and its about to happen again...
Andrew Clare
25   Posted 19/10/2011 at 08:48:59

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Things were so bad in the Walter Smith days that anybody coming in as the new manager would have looked good. Moyes to his credit did a good job for the first few years, but once we reached European competition his limitations became glaringly obvious and for the last 2 or 3 years we have become very predictable. Ten years without anything to show for it is long enough.

I get the impression that many people including Moyes think that it is inevitable that we will lose against the Manchester clubs, Arsenal even Fulham away. I believe that once that sort of thinking creeps in there is only one direction the club is going in and that is down!

Somehow, and I know it isn't easy, the present people who run or should I say run-down our club need to be removed quickly.

NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM ? have they heard of our proud club motto!

Evertonians will de-camp until these people leave our club. Eric and Mike above are right.
Chris Fisher
26   Posted 19/10/2011 at 10:55:05

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If I didn't love the club as much as I do, I would love Moyes to leave so that I could laugh and say "I told you so!" when we disappear down the relegation plug hole! But I do love the club more than anything so I pray to god it doesn't happen! Tell me who we could get in that could do better? And remember they would have to want to come to us as well so not O'Neill!!

We should be finishing in the top 8 and we will, we can't expect any more than that because the clubs above us have more money so in turn have better players. We were hanging in there for a while but the fact is we have stayed where we are with our skill level and other teams around us have spent more to improve their skill level; therefore, the fact we will finish in the top 8 means we are still doing bloody well!

I don't want to accept it but what choice do I have? With what we have we can't expect to challenge for the top 4 it's just not realistic. Sack the board but god help us if they stay and Moyes goes.
Richard Dodd
27   Posted 19/10/2011 at 20:14:54

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In spite of our so-called lack of cash ? or more likely because it has been spent too generously ? Everton`s wage bill is the eighth highest in the Prem. Is it, therefore, unreasonable to expect ? and be paying for ? a top half finish?

If that is achieved, and I have every confidence that it will be, Moyes will have done a good job. AGAIN.
David Crowe
28   Posted 18/10/2011 at 17:33:42

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The majority back moyes and want the board out. They're seperate entities. Don't try and pass them off as one problem.
Dennis Stevens
29   Posted 20/10/2011 at 22:06:42

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I agree that they're separate entities & shouldn't be seen as one problem, David. However, I don't understand how you can speak on behalf of 'the majority' on either point. Especially as, judging by the range of comments just on TW, views on both issues are more complicated than just pro- or anti-.

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