First off, I've been an Everton fan all my life. Apart from 1995, all I've ever known is that we were a poor team playing poor football with little to no money.
Things haven't changed in my 30 years of supporting Everton. I would class myself as a diehard Evertonian. I have all the jerseys, all the scarfs. I would take half-days off work to watch my beloved blues. I'd fly over for the weekend to watch matches, costing me a fortune. I would never miss Football First... but this last year or so ? and I hate to say it ? I've fallen out of love with Everton FC.
I was watching the Chelsea game last week and, for the first time in my life, I turned the channel over at half-time. My first thought to myself was I was betraying my love, I felt like shit doing it, but it was something that I couldn't bear to watch, seeing my team playing with no passion, no skill and ??most importantly, knowing we came for a point ? just sucked that last bit of love away.
Now to my point: would relegation be so bad? What would happen if we got relegated?
I'd like to think David Moyes would walk and we would get rid of our so-called stars: Fellaini, Jagielka, Cahill, Distin, Bily.... Kenwright would finally sell the club, and we can all start again ? albeit in the second tier of the English leagues... would that be so bad?
We could bring in the young guys, add a few Championship players with a new up-and-coming manager who likes to play the football we deserve. Of course, it could all go tits up; we could become a Leeds and never come back to the elite of football... However, something has to change, and it needs a MASSIVE change from top to bottom.
I feel like I've left my wife... I know I'll go back to her at some point, but she needs a major overhaul... and relegation might just be what we need.
Sean McKenna, Posted 21/10/2011 at 19:15:06
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1 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:13:44
Relegation is unthinkable, if you ask me. What would it achieve and how would we be in any better shape when it came to being promoted again having to spend to stay up?
We'd be better off selling a couple of big-money players, drafting in cheaper alternatives and treading water, hoping that Kenwright will eventually find a buyer and a price to his liking.
My love for the Club is being tested as well right now but I'm telling myself it's individuals in charge and not the venerable institution itself that's turning me off. It's certainly not enough for me to even contemplate the "R" word as a long-term solution to our problems.
2 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:27:44
3 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:40:56
4 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:46:27
5 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:46:00
What happened in 1995?
30 years ago we were just about to go on a journey to be one of Europe's finest teams just how good we never got the chance to find out. Do you not remember that?
Relegation would be a terrible thing, especially in the current circumstances.
I am very close to losing interest, not in Everton but football and the way it's run today.
6 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:37:38
However, relegation would probably destroy us, it is easy to assume that the club would be somehow cleansed by relegation, but we rely so heavily on the income we receive from TV deals, money from finishing top ten and probably numerous other financial deals, that we can't afford to lose it.
We would find ourselves having to sell of our 'big' players for half the price as everyone knows we would have no say in the matter.
Kenwright and Moyes would stick it out and Bill would come out with something like "It's ok, it's ok, i know this is a massive change in our fortunes but i'm determined to make it right and see us back into the Premier League!!"
Trust me Sean, my love affair with football as a whole is on the wain due to the whole 'money' thing, my love for Everton is strong but the passion isn't the same somehow, it kills me to see us like this.
I've often thought, why not get relegated? We could enjoy some good old fashioned league football with some real football clubs, it'd be fun, but it's not the answer.
The hope remains but the belief is being destroyed.
7 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:52:54
We played in the 2nd division in the thirties and fifties.
If there is anyone here who remembers either of those episodes it would be nice to hear what it felt like and how you coped!
We have more seasons in the top flight than any other but only Arsenal have never been relegated. (I think!)
8 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:52:57
9 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:02:18
Therefore players out for less than market value to reduce the wage bill, to keep the debts in check.
If Bill is trying to sell, he's got an asset that is more toxic than trophy, and would lead us open to takeover by investors with the aim of getting back up and ditching for a quick profit.
Relegation would not be a positive thing, and I can't understand any Blue who would even countenance such a thing.
10 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:01:44
Arsenal were relegated in 1913, but infamously didn't win promotion again & were instead 'elected' back to the 1st Division after the Great War.
11 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:21:06
If you mean bad as in all the current players would be sold for peanuts, possible administration, maybe going further down the leagues, then yes, it would be bad.
Seriously, how would relegation be a good thing?
12 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:24:21
People need to get a grip and give their heads a shake.
13 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:08:57
Not only baying for the immediate deployment of inexperienced teenagers & new loan-signings, but they also simultaneously crave both the Chairman & the Gaffer's head - plus a fire-sale.
Now we have a wimpy, mawkish "query," wondering if relegation would be so bad?
What would you people be like at The Somme, I ask?
I'm with Lyndon & Nick on this.
14 Posted 21/10/2011 at 22:55:17
IF, and it is a big IF, you subscribe to the finance is everything homily, progress by the better financed - Stoke, Sunderland, Newcastle, Villa, Blackburn and now QPR together with the top 6 would kill us off.
12 out of 19 places effectively beyond us - no margin for error.
Incredibly hardly anyone deems it serious.
15 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:26:23
We can't compete against Chelsea and Man City! Villa just got smashed 4-1 by City and a lot of teams will get beat at their ground this season. Same goes for Chelsea! We can compete with everyone else and will be up in the top 8 come the end of the season!
Stop being so depressing and negative. It's been a bad month and we all can't wait till it's out the way; after this month, we have games up until January that we can get good results from.
Fair enough if we play negative and get walked all over by them teams then that's when we can judge and start getting on the manager's and players' backs but getting beat AWAY to Chelsea and City and getting no luck in the derby playing with 10 men after 20 minutes, we can't all throw our dummies out the pram and talk about getting relegated and starting again!!!! There is still 31 games to go ya know !!!!?
ACT LIKE A PROPER BLUE !!! Goodison been too quiet this season lets start bringing the house down !!
16 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:32:50
17 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:30:47
Kevin a little melodrama to claim the term "Armageddon Crew" for anyone that questions the validity and mindset of the current manager David Moyes who in many eyes does appear stale and to have lost any fight he once had, don't forget if you want to win hearts and minds you need to show empathy and even if its utter bullshit give the masses some hope and fire in their bellies with speeches of giving it a go against the odds instead of the defeatist mutterings Moyes has come out with recently.
As far as demanding a replacement to the current Chairman, I will quite willingly hold my hand up and say I myself have called for this for years as I've seen his lack of business acumen as heading only one direction and get no pleasure from a told you so perspective that years of my voiced concerns over his lack of planning and poor running of the club would eventually put it where it is right now; potless and with no discernable light at the end of the tunnel. Acknowledging we are where we are doesn't detract from my view that replacing him would be a step with no guarantee other than change. A lack of changing that hierarchy has only one route which I've witnessed for over a decade and thats the gradual decline of the club as a business.
Tag me as some form of armageddon merchant or whatever you wish but I'll not sway from my perspective of change being needed to save the club from its current downward spiral. I think the phrase you are looking for with your other melodramatic comparison is the old LMF or Lack of Moral Fibre aimed at RAF Aircrews that cracked under the strain of combat, those poor souls at the Somme were marched like cattle carrying overweight packs not required in battle and ordered in straight lines and not to dodge oncoming fire by zigzagging and as such were mowed like grass neither of which have any relationship to supporters genuinely worried about the state of the club.
18 Posted 21/10/2011 at 23:54:17
As far as I know, Everton have used the next two season's revenues as some sort of collateral with the bank ergo any parachute payment that comes from being relegated wouldn't be spent on players but would go to the bank.
Those who can see no wrong in the Moyesiah might like to ponder on that as he sits back and lets us drop like a stone without a whimper.
19 Posted 22/10/2011 at 00:05:41
I also feel that investment is needed, and the board need to pull their finger out.
20 Posted 22/10/2011 at 00:40:56
These impostors, and I mean both of them, have almost killed us. Sean, I think what you're saying is, Will it take relegation to rid us of them?
The answer is, probably .... yes.
But to many, including me, this is unthinkable. Not getting rid of them ? relegation!
My only hope is that we get taken over... if Bill lets us? Or the fans see that Moyes is as inept as the chairman. Make no mistake, we are already in a relegation fight now!!!!!!
Some people on here that think we've only played 7 games... don't panic ? is the equivalent of the captain of the titanic, saying "Don't worry, it's just a snowflake."
Sean, unless the PE teacher changes his spots, or we get an immediate take over, your thoughts on relegation may be put to the test.
21 Posted 22/10/2011 at 03:51:30
What ever word beginning with un, in, or im the ' R ' word might be, unthinkable and impossible are not on the list. Not to do so is we are too big / good (ha) to go down, head in the sand stuff.
If there is on the field shite still at the end of Nov, then that is the crunch time. By that I mean we are still averaging 1point per game.
This give the new Bloke(s) time, if required to suss out the squad and allows a tilt at the FA Cup as an encentive. I will be much surprised and happy if we are still in the League cup.
Kevin Hudson; Somme comments, read up on ' Lions led by Donkeys ' - hint, most of the errors were, just like now, made at the top.
Though I do prefer Arrmageddonist to 0,02% er...any hope then that Moyes will disappear in his own end of times rapture...nah, didn't think so.
With our luck we will be 9points clear at the top of the League when the World ends on 21/12/12.
22 Posted 22/10/2011 at 07:46:40
23 Posted 22/10/2011 at 09:17:54
Even with us losing Pienaar and Arteta in less than a year we still have player's who are capable of getting us in the top 8.
Everyone has gone a bit mad with the start the likes of Stoke have had, it's only early on in the season, and apart from West Brom no other team has had a run of games like we have had.
We should wait till January and because from november onwards the fixture's have the making of us getting some decent run's together.
As i said in earlier post if we are in the same position and showing the same ambition against them teams then we can question the manager and player's but for now.... after having the run we have had let's justv take a step back and calm down a bit. Way over the top comments on here at the minute.
The only thing i do agree with is the performance against Chelsea was dire and the player's looked flat and devoid of fight, im guessing there will be a reaction against Fulham, thats what im expecting anyway !!
24 Posted 22/10/2011 at 09:38:12
25 Posted 22/10/2011 at 10:01:05
Relegation would be an unmitigated disaster ? just look at Leeds and Forest (and many others). Parachute payments would be grabbed by the banks and all sources of income would diminish.
Yes, Sean, it's truly a mortal sin to think of it!
26 Posted 22/10/2011 at 10:05:00
1) Get relegated, sack the manager (rightly so if indeed we were relegated), sell all our top players, bring in some championship players (see how well Beckford is doing currently), and attempt to get back up within two years before the parachuet payments run dry. And, assuming we were to achieve this, enter the 2013/14 season with none of our current top players but a group of cheaply assembled championship players, ala Norwich/Swansea and pray we don't get relegated again, OR
2) win at Fulham tomorrow and forget about the ridiculous notion that relgation wouldn't be 'a bad thing'.
Is this post for real?
27 Posted 22/10/2011 at 10:17:45
You're feeling down right now, I understand. But the fact your posting on a fan-based website dedicated soley to the subject of your love affair suggests your still in love!
28 Posted 22/10/2011 at 10:49:16
29 Posted 22/10/2011 at 11:26:30
Think of all our young talent that would just plucked away from us, never mind the first team.
30 Posted 22/10/2011 at 11:35:33
Nowadays relagation could well mean the end of the club as we know it.
We have signed away all our assets
except the players, & taken out loans against future revenue.
If we went down then because of this financial situation we would certainly go into administration. This would mean an automatic points deduction, under League rules, & this coupled with player sales would probably mean a further drop down.
I really don't want to end up like ...Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forrest or Leeds.
31 Posted 22/10/2011 at 11:37:08
Then the summer comes round, we sell our best players and replace them with the McFaddens of this world. This is my opinion and EFC need a major change ? something has to happen... and soon.
32 Posted 22/10/2011 at 12:09:42
My guess was 19, giving us 12 from the next 9 games
19 from 16 games, slightly better than 1 point per game average - still relegation form
This is, of course, based on Moyes NOT "sorting" it
Looking back, 72-3 came as a shock to us, then, younger fans
Jostling with Man Utd for relegation, Howard pulled us through, virtually on his own at times
Mind you, then we thought we could buy our way out of trouble - how have the mighty fallen
33 Posted 22/10/2011 at 12:56:52
34 Posted 22/10/2011 at 13:03:47
35 Posted 22/10/2011 at 13:24:56
36 Posted 22/10/2011 at 13:21:48
The Premier Leauge is so fucked up now... it's a 4-team monoploly with the Shite and Spurs pushing and looking for a way in to the elite (some may now put Spurs ahead of the Arsenal but whatever).
I know some Newcastle fans, currently sitting pretty in 4th and undefeated and a home game against Wigan coming up... and they are not shouting about Champions League or Europe... they are shouting about they will be safe by Xmas. I firmly believe we have a better team than them.
I also feel we are stronger than Villa (who we should've leathered at home), Sunderland, Stoke, Fulham and West Brom and in my opinion those are the only 5 teams who could realisitcally push for the 7th/8th place league finish that brings European qualification.
In no particular order, Blackburn, Bolton, QPR, Norwich, Swansea, Wigan & Wolves haven't got the quality that Everton have. More importantly, they haven't got the settled squad and expereince that Everton have. I think that's what will pull us out of this slump very shortly... one decent win and then the hard fixture list from October is out of the way and suddenly it all looks better.
I understand that 99% of people are struggling financially but I'd love to see a full house next Saturday. I do think that a full house does offer the team that bit extra. So I'm hoping for 40 thousand next Saturday. Utd are a quality team but a Goodison at full roar then anything can happen.
37 Posted 22/10/2011 at 13:45:43
38 Posted 22/10/2011 at 13:32:56
It was a good team but ageing and without any apparent money to spend, a youth programme was the club's policy. Sadly it did not work and we struggled throughout the late 50s with the spectre of relegation hanging over us. A return to the 2nd Division seemed inevitable until John Moores arrived to save us from a bleak future with his business skills and financial clout.
50-odd years later there is no John Moores but there is still the Moores family and I have wondered long and hard why they choose not to become involved with the club in its present state. Is there a reason? They are still shareholders so are obviously still interested in the clubs well-being. I ask again, is there a reason?
39 Posted 22/10/2011 at 14:45:07
But to reply both to you and John (@36)... I agree there are worse teams than us in the League, but we only have to be unlucky with injuries, decisions (derby) etc and "lesser" teams have better luck, to see us in real trouble.
Losing, like winning, can become a mind-set, a habit if you like; Moyes must put an end to this "we can't compete" frame of mind - let Duncan give the team talk!
Let's hope the spirit of Bally `66 gets us through tomorrow; if not we'll really be needing the 12th man at Goodison if we're to get 20 points by Christmas.
40 Posted 22/10/2011 at 15:03:47
Andrew @5 - totally agree, I am losing interest in top flight football (not Everton!) and to be honest prefer coaching and taking in Blue Square Premier matches.
Its frustrating. I am not naive enough to think that money has never played a part - of course it has and the top clubs were always those with more money (hence why we were up there). The difference; it was generally self-generated based on your support base and attendance.
Chelsea and City are proving that all it takes is a "hobbyist" who is prepared to chuck stupid money at buying all the best players. Where's the challenge? Where's the coaching & development of a team? Where's the fun? Would I like to do it the Chelsea / City way......genuinely, no I wouldn't.
I was probably stupidly of the hope 2 years ago that we were about to break the mould and give me optimism that its still about football. Oh well!
41 Posted 22/10/2011 at 15:37:20
42 Posted 22/10/2011 at 19:00:14
THE TWELFTH MAN. Amazinig away supporters who are second to none.
Thats why Sean.
43 Posted 22/10/2011 at 19:08:29
44 Posted 22/10/2011 at 19:55:38
You bet it would.
How a Blue could even think such things is well beyond me.
45 Posted 22/10/2011 at 20:05:45
46 Posted 22/10/2011 at 19:52:52
Probably one of the most idiotic statements I've heard on here. How can dropping down a division losing our better players and the Sky money after a year, but not losing our useless chairman or manager, because he will be back in his comfort zone of the Championship on top money be a good thing.
We are not going to get relegated, we've had a horrible run of fixtures lately, I don't think any team of a similar level to us would've done much better; they may have played with more attacking flair but that's for another day.
We play Fulham tomorrow who were bollocks on Thursday and have only 1 win all season; hopefully Smith.. oops, I mean Moyes will show some balls and have a go at them.
Oh look a flying pig!
47 Posted 22/10/2011 at 20:11:27
We could have Messi in our side and we could not get the ball to him.
48 Posted 22/10/2011 at 20:11:51
I can't help still getting excited when the boys run on. Nothing beats watching Everton. I can't believe people falling out of love with them. We've been this bad before.
49 Posted 22/10/2011 at 20:20:26
He's not been in the Championship for 10 years, you daft twat.
Some idiots on here.
50 Posted 22/10/2011 at 20:26:07
Today is a different story. If we had been relegated in the early Nineties instead of squeaking by, it's just possible ? just possible ? it could have been played to our advantage. However, the economics now are such that the loss of television revenue for even one season could easily put us into receivership.
The only possible benefit is that it would lower the price of the club to a potential investor but I don't see that there are many lining up. Incidentally, it's a little early to think about relegation. If we are 17th and a point or two away from the drop zone at New Year I would say that's a different story. But it's still only October.
51 Posted 22/10/2011 at 21:12:12
Also if you look at the players he's had most success with it's been the Cahills, Lescotts of this world rather than the Heitingas, Bilys etc. So please Ryan take a chill pill and read a post properly before calling me a daft twat.
52 Posted 22/10/2011 at 21:09:49
Sky has done wonders for the game, but its also slowly destroying it. The same teams at the top, the same teams being shown on TV, its getting incredibly boring. It doesn't help of course that we've had little or no new signings recently and play such sterile risk adverse football. Something has to give.
But relegation, yes, only if gets rid of Billy Liar.
53 Posted 22/10/2011 at 22:54:20
54 Posted 22/10/2011 at 23:35:34
Personally I think it's a matter of time before things change and it won't be a drastic swing upwards of form.
I had said in an earlier post that this would be a crunch season for Moyes and I still stand by that. We are now fourth from bottom and it would be easy to say that three points against Fulham are absolutely crucial but we have to look way beyond this game. All games are crucial in the final analysis and Moyes continued negativity will not help one bit.
Drop the underachievers now and get the newer players in the starting eleven and give them some games to blend.
55 Posted 23/10/2011 at 00:08:55
My opinion: players? If used correctly, yes;
Manager? if he changes his attitude, yes;
Board? no way are they supporting the manager or team, financially, morally or appear to be adding a single jot of value to them or the club.
Make no mistake, despite Moyes's obvious, annoying oft irritating and frustrating tactics, he has proved more than capable when given even limited resources.
The problem is his heart doesn't appear to be in it and he needs to look in the mirror and earn his wage. Realize that part of his role is to provide hope and inspiration (like he once did) and shove it right back up the board's backside.
56 Posted 23/10/2011 at 04:34:24
Our biggest problem still remain.s Kenwright as he'll happily sit there and watch the focus shift onto Moyes rather than take responsibility. Moyes has been incredibly frustrating because he looks like he's fucked off. Even in some of the better times he's basically suggested he doesn't know how we managed it... But the negativity of setting up to "cope" has not been as bad until this season.
We need change, Moyes needs to get his shit together and actually inspire or no team will want him and Kenwright and co need to sell... There's no point in hoping these clowns are going o formulate any kind of cunning plan.
57 Posted 23/10/2011 at 16:59:48
Dark times are now upon us as the Nazi hordes approach our shores. Our nation is in grave danger.
Germany has amassed a well equipped army at great expense, it has marched over Europe, taken France and now faces Britain.
They have better soldiers, better weapons and a bigger army. There is little we can do apart from drafting in a symbolic injured Scotsman to bolster our ranks.
I shall ensure the German authorities are aware we have surrendered before a shot has been fired or a bomb dropped. Hopefully they won't go too hard on us as long as it is clear we will not try to retaliate.
I will send Captain Neville to show we are no threat and to raise the White Flag on our behalf. He used to work for The Fuhrer and should be received well.
Please ensure for your own safety that you never look the enemy in the eye, keep your head bowed and understand you are a second tier nation.
It is time to surrender and I can assure you my bottle has long gone. Any of our Soldiers with the skill and ability to fight will be transferred to the enemy at the first opportunity.
58 Posted 23/10/2011 at 17:06:23
In what respect would it be fine? I mean to lose top flight status, to once again participate in the 2nd Division for the first time since the mid-1950s, a cold wet tuesday night at Doncaster Rovers, I could go on, but don't need to.
Bottom line is and I'm guessing here, relegation would be a calamity. Sure, there's some deadwood that needs to be cleared from the club but that can still be achieved while preserving top flight status. So the club drops out of the Premier League into the twilight world of Championship soccer and we say "Let's start to move things around' etc. No, just can't see this ever being a feasible solution.
It would put the club back more than anything else. The Championship is damn hard to get out of, probably harder to win than the Premier League, some say. There are a few good clubs in there and, if Everton were ever sucked in, would it be a forgone conclusion the team would bounce back at the first attempt? I don't think so.
It take's time to adjust, it could actually be a few years before a return. Leeds for instance have had plenty of trouble getting back to the EPL after some seven or eight years in lower league ? and even then they were relegated to the Third Division for a couple of seasons, that's just one example.
And let's not forget Everton's record against lower league fare in domestic cup tourneys. If we have a hard enough time of it beating Reading and Oldham in FA and League Cups in recent years then how's it going to look playing the same calibre of opposition week-in, week-out for 42 games or however long it is down there? It could be a goddamn embarrassment of a league campaign, there will certainly be a few sides who will show us up and you can't make too many mistakes if you want a return to the EPL.
I think the issue is irrelevant as I can't see the club being relegated ? at least not this season. Fulham today was a great result, if unexpected; it just goes to show that Moyes can go out to win. Stop being a miserable dour tactician, and our men can go out and get a result. More of that and any relegation talk can go by the wayside...
This is not 1997 and Kendall is not back for a third run. No last day escapes, Farrelly superlatives, dancing on the Goodison pitch as the rain comes down... even if it was a most memorable day for anyone that was 'fortunate' enough to have been there that afternoon!!!
59 Posted 23/10/2011 at 19:50:05
60 Posted 24/10/2011 at 13:18:03
Yea, If I left my wife and she got fat, grew a mustache and got a limp Id definately be running back to here - get a grip!
If you cant follow the team through thick and thin then dont follow them - this is football. If you have been a supporter for 30 years then were you not a supported in 85 or 87? I think we were pretty good back then!
61 Posted 24/10/2011 at 16:53:09
To people talking about why Goodison has been so quiet? The fans have had their bloody hearts ripped out.
62 Posted 25/10/2011 at 00:24:15
Fuck relegation. We're 6 points from 6th place in October. We are NOT a relegation side.
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