Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Lies, Damned Lies and Post Match Comments

 39 Comments: First  |  Last

If David Moyes really wanted to win against Chelsea, as he claims with a straight face, why did he make five changes over the side that beat Fulham ? including a goalkeeper in whom Moyes has shown little confidence in the past?

Why make a 33-year-old striker play all 120 minutes when he has been "rested" in the past because he lacks fitness? This was a very winnable game. Chelsea fielded the Ladies Team. A good effort but we were still beaten. Moyes did more to bring that about than anyone on the Chelsea end.

I suppose I'm expected to believe he wanted players fully rested so they can be fresh when they lose to Man Utd. He should be fielding the strongest possible XI. There's no excuse at all for playing a third string goalkeeper. Another knock-out competition out of the way so Moyes can focus on the mediocrity he is so deftly aiming for in the Premier League.
Peter Fearon, Liverpool     Posted 27/10/2011 at 02:44:12

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Brian Keating
1   Posted 27/10/2011 at 07:45:03

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What a load of nonsense. Of course he wanted to win the game.

Chelsea played a weakened team, are you saying they didn't want to win the game either?

Moyes promised Mucha that he would play every league cup game, so he was keeping a promise. How do you know that Moyes has no faith in Mucha?

Alan Clarke
2   Posted 27/10/2011 at 08:05:13

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Moyes only knows how to play for draws with the hope we might nick one and win. It's why his cup record is so shite, he doesn't know how to set his team up for a win. In a league game, a 1-1 draw after 90 minutes is a good Moyes result, mission accomplished. He got what he played for - a draw.

Even against Fulham, we nicked it. It was the same against Wigan, heading for a draw and we nicked it.

At least we can concentrate on the league now!
Dick Fearon
3   Posted 27/10/2011 at 09:48:37

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Once again Moyes Pre match comment where said it was becoming harder to match the big spenders on the field was another of his deliberate attempts to dampen evertonians hopes.
I wish he would show a little more optimism in his outlook.
Over the park we see Daglish with a far from perfect team exuding confidence from every pore.
Marcus Choo
4   Posted 27/10/2011 at 09:39:09

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I just can't agree with the criticisms for playing Mucha. As mentioned by Brian #1, Moyes was just rotating his squad to keep players contented (and give some games outside the Reserves). Moyes was just doing what most other Premier League managers were doing as part of good squad management. Just take a look at the games that went on and which teams started their first-team keepers for the Cup..

Arsenal vs Bolton ? Fabianski & Bogdan started. Jaaskelainen is easily the #1 keeper while Szczesny has started the most this season.

Aldershot vs Man Utd ? Ben Amos started for MU with DeGea on the bench.

Stoke vs Liverpool ? Sorensen & Reina started. Begovic is Stoke's #1... as for Liverpool, when have what they did ever made sense...

Wolves vs Man City ? de Vries & Pantilimon started. Ian Hart & Wayne Hennessy are City's & Wolves' #1s respectively

Blackburn vs Newcastle ? Mark Bunn & Tim Krul started. Paul Robinson is Blackburn's first choice. Granted Tim Krul is Newcastle's #1 keeper.

And not forgetting our opponents started with their second-choice keeper as well.

Really, to criticise Moyes for starting Mucha sounds really ridiculous to me. By all means criticise defensive tactics, starting injured players, players playing out of position etc. but not starting Mucha...

ps. I think most Toffewebbers also had Mucha in their starting lineups when discussing pre-match tactics. Why didn't anyone raise a stink then??
Marc Williams
5   Posted 27/10/2011 at 10:09:19

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Peter... I think you are wrong about Chelsea fielding their 'Ladies Team', as neither of their 'Top Tarts', Terry or Torres played.

That said, it was their 2nd or 3rd string that we still couldn't beat with a strong starting eleven.
Jason Heng
6   Posted 27/10/2011 at 10:17:39

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So we are now unhappy that the 33-year-old has regained his fitness and been given a chance?

I cannot imagine any manager gunning for a draw in a cup tie ? you either win or lose.
Trevor Mackie
7   Posted 27/10/2011 at 10:08:53

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Who cares what Moyes says, I just heard him say

"when it was 11 v 10 we were in control"

The man should be working part time stacking shelves in a supermarket - criminal waste of money.
George McKane
8   Posted 27/10/2011 at 10:10:39

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I go to the pub normally a few hours before the game and then for another few hours after. Yesterday we were in the pub just before 6.00pm then off to the game and back until around midnight. There is a really big group of us who go to every game - have a look at Facebook page "The DarkHouse Blues" for pictures.The point is we talk Everton for hours, discussing every aspect of the game, the club, the players, management et seq. Colin Fitzpatrick sits with us and we discuss finances and so on. We are interested in our Club and what is happening.There is a feeling among almost all of us of , well I am searching for the word, of apathy, spiritless,uninspiring, torpid even almost comatose not by us but by the Club, The Management and some of the players. Whether or not we like Moyes, some of us do, some don't, we all acknowledge that he brought stability to the Club but we have an overwhelming feeling that he looks and sounds "spent" as do the tactics and the team. Of course we will all be there again on Saturday but there is a feeling of serious stagnation around the Club and especially about the team and its "style", if indeed we have a style. I asked last night about this season and most said the football was boring and dull. There is a sense of frustration around Everton at the moment. Can any other "group" of Evertonians or indeed individual fans make any comments. The bottom line is we are Evertonians and we want what is best for OUR Club. George Mc Kane. The Dark House Blues. I must add that we are not the types who boo the team at the game but talk long and hard before and after each game.
Ryan Holroyd
9   Posted 27/10/2011 at 10:58:00

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'The man should be working part time stacking shelves in a supermarket - criminal waste of money.'

Why don't you ask your boss to give him a job Trevor working along side you.
Trevor Mackie
10   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:01:48

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Ryan

You're comments are as effective as Moyes, albeit you have another 40 yrs to reach his age - marvellous.
George McKane
11   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:04:11

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Surely we can all agree or disagree about football matters without making unpleasant personal comments. I do not like Moyes' tactics and style at the moment but I certainly do not "hate" him or hate people who "love" him. Its a matter of opinion. For me the one thing that is paramount at the moment at Everton is the fans no matter what anyone else says we are tremendous fans. "God Bless everyone, especially Evertonians" said Tiny Tim (Cahill).
June Brennan
12   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:11:58

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Moyes quote on EFC "It was a game we probably should have won in the end and we'll probably come away from it a wee bit disappointed that we didn't go into the next round of the cup. A wee bit disappointed he should have been going ballistic. I have always been a fan of Moyes but am now getting fed up with his mediocre attitude and negativity. Get some umph up your arse David and pass it onto the players.
Chris Fisher
13   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:20:30

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If Howard had of started ? like he 100% should've ? we would now be in the next round of the Cup.
Adam Baig
14   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:14:52

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I think anyone can see that Moyes is not enjoying his job at the moment. Whether or not he chooses to do anything about that or not is only his decision.

For me, he should throw caution to the wind and go all out attack between now and January and see what happens. If we get battered every week , he can say I told you so, but history shows that when he plays with 2 strikers we win.

I dont know whether he is making some kind of disguised protest to the hierarchy, or clinging on for some miracle indian takeover, but he looks like someone who wants to leave, but can't find a new job to go to.
Denis Richardson
15   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:23:04

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I guess we should try to put things into perspective and try to take some positives out of the game.

This season will be a long one and no matter whether opinions are pro/anti Moyes/Kenwrong, the overriding priority for the club is not to get relegated. Before people start going on about how dare I bring up the R word - remember that this is the main priority for at least half the league before a ball is even kicked.

Given how small our squad is, I guess we have fewer games in which key players can get injured and let me realistic, we all would like a good cup run but who really gives a sh*t about the Carling Cup? The greater disappointment is that we falied to beat a 2nd string chelsea side at home.

Anyway, thats the only positive I can take - scrapping the bottom of the barrel but trying to be glass half full (its hard!).

Lets move onto Saturday and home that Saha is not knackered/ingoured after playing 120mins.

Will Drenthe be suspended or does that kick in the game after?
Denis Richardson
16   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:36:38

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Sorry for numerous spelling mistakes, hit 'send' to soon.........
Peter Fearon
17   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:38:53

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Brian Keating: He was able to make that promise to Mucha because he has no regard for the Carling Cup. Again: five changes plus a third string keeper plus not your strongest squad equals, "I don't care if we win this." There's no argument about that. If you want to win you put your best out there. It's different if you are involved in European competitions, have lost of stars to rotate and are battling for a top four place. These knock-out competitions are more valuable to us.
Peter Fearon
18   Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:46:14

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Brian Keating- He obviously has no faith in Mucha because he signed Marcus Hanherman who has been a starter in this league for years. Would you take Mucha over Marcus?
Tony J Williams
19   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:09:45

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Why didn't he play Hanhman then?
Tony J Williams
20   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:10:34

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Ivanovic - Serbian International
David Luiz - Brazilian International
Alex - Brazilian International
England U21 player
Romeu - Bought from Barcelona
Malouda - French International
McEacjran - England U21 player
Kalou - Ivory Coast Internaltional and Anelka - French International - I wouldn't mind a ladies team/3rd team like that
Robbie Muldoon
21   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:17:26

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?It?s one of these things that happens.

?Somebody?s got to win and somebody?s got to lose ? and we were the losers tonight.?

- David Moyes on being knocked out of the Carling Cup at home to Chelsea.


That is pure apathy in its finest form. Time to go Davey, you are spent.
Tony J Williams
22   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:33:54

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How is a factually correct statement apathy Robbie?
Robbie Muldoon
23   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:35:30

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Apathy (also called impassivity or perfunctoriness) is a state of indifference, or the suppression of emotions such as concern, excitement, motivation and passion.


In positive psychology, apathy is described as a result of the individual feeling they do not possess the level of skill required to confront a challenge. It may also be a result of perceiving no challenge at all (e.g. the challenge is irrelevant to them, or conversely, they have learned helplessness).

This is David Moyes down to a tee. Scary.
Tony J Williams
24   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:39:07

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We played a game, we lost the game, ergo we are the losers.

Didn't think stating a fact means that Moyes had no idea of what he had to do to beat them, he knows what he has to do, the problem is when players miss penalties, open goals and throw the ball into the net or at the feet of an oncoming forward.
Robbie Muldoon
25   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:52:45

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He had a choice to play that keeper last night, wrong fucking choice.
Andy Codling
26   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:43:13

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Dont worry Robbie, Tony has too much time on his hands and would try to argue that black was white albeit in a vague manner.
Peter Mills
27   Posted 27/10/2011 at 12:48:09

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George, By the sound of your post I would class myself as a similar fan to you. I was brought up supporting the club, I've attended for many years with my grandad and dad and brother, now with brother, nephews, nieces, son, mates etc. I love Everton, it is a big part of my life, part of my family. That makes me pretty much like the majority of our support I suspect.
For the first time in my life I am totally disillusioned with watching The Blues. I am grateful for what Bill Kenwright did but think he is now totally out of his league. There are not many people in the world who are in the same league as Abramovich and Mansour. I am grateful for what David Moyes has done, he is clearly struggling at present, I don't know whether he can bring about improvements to personnel or tactics - he has tried something different in the last two games and was certainly let down badly last night by foolish acts by Drenthe and Mucha. I was angry at his selection of Mucha, because all I want to see is an Everton player lifting a trophy and the chance of that was reduced substantially by the manager picking a second choice goalkeeper. Why should we accept that when we have paid our money to try and support the team into the next round of one of the two winnable competitions we are in?
Therein lies the source of my current frustrated almost to apathy mindset. I attend football matches in the hope my team will win a trophy. The glint of sunshine or floodlight as it hits a piece of silver held aloft by Roy Vernon, Brian Labone, Alan Ball, Kevin Ratcliffe, Dave Watson is what has made me go for 50 years. I'm not living in the past, I want to see Phil Neville or Tim Cahill do the same but there just seems to be no chance, so what's the point?
I'll be there on Saturday!
Tony J Williams
28   Posted 27/10/2011 at 13:28:54

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"Dont worry Robbie, Tony has too much time on his hands and would try to argue that black was white albeit in a vague manner. "

Sorry to piss on your chips Andy, but there are also shades of grey between black and white, not just polar opposites.

Vague enough for you?

Robbie, using the reasonable man test, would you have reasonable foreseen that an International goalkeeper would throw the ball into his own net or parry a straight shot into the feet of an oncoming forward? Answer honestly now.
Ian Tunstead
29   Posted 27/10/2011 at 14:08:41

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It takes 2 to tango Andy, maybe Robbie has too much time on his hands aswel. Or maybe they are both pasionate about Everton and so make time.
Andrew Gilbert
30   Posted 27/10/2011 at 15:47:28

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One thing to be proud of....In the Prem this season ourselves and Fulham are the only two teams not to have let in three or more goals against Man City! That should really qualify us for a champions league spot!
Andy Codling
31   Posted 27/10/2011 at 16:51:18

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Anyone know why Connor Mcnamra from the BBC was ejected from Goodison last night apparently whilst he was on air?
Lol McNally
32   Posted 27/10/2011 at 18:28:49

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Alan #2

Yes, and we robbed it at Blackburn. But the luck will run out,
Lol McNally
33   Posted 27/10/2011 at 18:44:12

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Andy Coding, pity it was not Moyes.
Jimmy Sorheim
34   Posted 27/10/2011 at 18:40:50

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We just LOST a GOLDEN chance at getting to Europe this season. It is that simple. Mucha should NEVER had been played and especially not against a top side like CHELSEA.. I am sorry,but Moyes just does not know his game, he never wins anything. I have waited for AT LEAST a CUP WIN but no.
Moyes should be sacked outright.
Jon Cox
35   Posted 27/10/2011 at 18:39:13

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Andy (29) I'd like to know that as well. Saying that, at least there was something good about the nights events.
John Nugent
36   Posted 27/10/2011 at 19:13:06

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Andy#29
Where did you hear abouy the BBC fella?
I'd love to have seen that.

Match highlights anyone...
http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/everton-chelsea-%28longer%29-15611265/
Brendan McLaughlin
37   Posted 27/10/2011 at 19:49:47

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Andy #29
Nothing too exciting. Apparently he overstayed his welcome & was still there at almost midnight so he was shown the door.
Marc Williams
38   Posted 27/10/2011 at 19:42:21

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Andy @ 29... Apparently the lecky meter was running down, so Bill was trying stop the broadcast, rather than put his last 50p in the meter. It's the best thing he's done all season as we wouldn't want to blow our entire January transfer fund on lecky for the BBC.

Jimmy @ 30... I'm not trying to have a go or be negative but what would be the point in getting into Europe ?
With a squad this thin, it could be embarassing and we'd be threadbare in no time. After 120min's last night we had injured players on the pitch & I dread to think what state we'll be in for an early kick off Saturday. We just don't have the bodies for Euro' games aswell anymore.

Oh & by the way, your caps lock button keeps sticking intermitently.
Tony J Williams
39   Posted 28/10/2011 at 09:47:02

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Jimmy, you do realise that this wasn't the final don't you? The Shite, Man City, Arsenal and Man U are still in the pot - or are they "there for the taking" too?

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