Followed a link if you like on my twitter or twatter account, and someone named Ratan Tata is the Indian interested in buying us.
Probably rubbish... but, if it is true he is potentialy the richest guy on the planet, worth an estimated 70 billion.
Come on, Bill, Indians love train sets as well!
Robert Daniels, Posted 27/10/2011 at 22:32:02
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1 Posted 27/10/2011 at 23:24:50
Right next to Finch Farm!!!!!
2 Posted 27/10/2011 at 23:24:15
They were inundated with EFC fans asking questions so issued an apology for raising hopes but insisted their sources were reliable. Then adding they had been asked by said contacts to stay silent for a while.
Apology - http://www.thedaisycutter.co.uk/2011/10/a-message-and-apology-to-everton-fans/
Plus an update Oct 24th - http://www.thedaisycutter.co.uk/2011/10/everton-takeover-latest/
Now we see it re-surface from Internet Whisperer.
I would get a tad exited but on Oct 26th in the Express, Kenwright interview by Ian Ridley -
'If Everton do catch the eye of the world, perhaps it will alert a buyer to the potential of a club in need of new impetus. Even if Everton have, ironically, been left behind by the very thing they helped create,(Premiership) be sure that Kenwright and Co will not sell to another Venky?s."
Coincidence? And why the slur on the Venky's? Very wealthy Indian family business with one of the sons a football nut.
A worry because after seeing the extremely positive impact Blackburn had on their recent tour to India, then add in 90 million people live in Delhi alone and it could be what we have been waiting for, with far more potential than Blackburn.
3 Posted 28/10/2011 at 00:33:26
He is a ruthless businessman and why would he want to see EFC wealthier than Spurs ?
He could be constantly putting a spanner in the works !
4 Posted 28/10/2011 at 00:53:07
1. It's true
2. They know what the fuck they're doing. Money's critical for sure. But we still need a management team understands professional sports franchise owning isn't like other businesses.
5 Posted 28/10/2011 at 01:00:55
6 Posted 28/10/2011 at 01:10:08
Why would we lose our heritage and identity if we had the means to compete? Didn't under "Mr" John, did we? You know what a Bolshie lot we are... Whatever it takes.
7 Posted 28/10/2011 at 01:24:42
Fingers and toes crossed. God help me walking to my car.
8 Posted 28/10/2011 at 04:11:00
What would you like to happen then Ian? What other alternative do you propose to get us out of the shit we're in?
9 Posted 28/10/2011 at 05:12:02
Even establishing our own world class players costs money.
Some of us sound like we would pefer to be taken over by someone with just enough money. Thats like saying I want to be kind of successful.
Man City will win plenty of trophies as a direct result of their money.
I want to see Everton's name on those cups again. Man City and Chelsea might be buying big name players but I'm guessing their facilities have also improved along with their juniors.
10 Posted 28/10/2011 at 06:17:53
11 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:22:14
12 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:23:40
I would like us back where we were during the Moores era. This is where we belong. We should not be in our current position of wondering where the next penny is coming from.
13 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:56:53
Personally I won't believe any takeover rumours with BK's penchant and form for serial porkies.
14 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:34:38
15 Posted 28/10/2011 at 09:09:28
16 Posted 28/10/2011 at 10:28:02
17 Posted 28/10/2011 at 10:53:40
18 Posted 28/10/2011 at 11:07:47
I honestly believe we are doing ok?better than all the sides who don?t spend the big money at least. We have always managed to get by without much money, we can just keep producing Rooney?s, Vaughn?s, Rodwell?s, Baxter?s, Barkley?s and add the Goslings the Guey?s the Coleman?s the Vellios?s and the George Greens.
I am proud of the way we do things at Everton and I wouldn?t want to see that change, it would mean so much more if we could win something doing it the right way.
19 Posted 28/10/2011 at 11:29:28
I want to see great football at Goodison again unfortunately the only way that is likely is if we are 'taken over' by billionaires. Everton would be a fantastic purchase for a foreign investor ? we are one of the 'jewels in the crown' of English football, with fantastic support and fantastic history... Forget the old stadium and the debts, people with 'big' money would soon turn this club around.
I don't want to be an 'also ran' ? do you?
20 Posted 28/10/2011 at 11:35:13
21 Posted 28/10/2011 at 11:49:46
Look at Chelski, especially when they were successful under Maureen, they were shite to watch and they still are.
The only teams that are good to watch are Arsenal, well they used to be and Man City, this year. Last year they were boring to watch.
Man U have a few good days but are usually business like and not "good" to watch.
22 Posted 28/10/2011 at 12:18:05
In theory, someone cannot come in now, like they did at City and Chelsea, and just splash the cash and buy a whole squad. The rules though allow you to spend as much as you like on the stadium, training facilities and youth development. If these rules are applied, we are a big club with a big history, synonymous with the Premier League, who only need a few quality additions to challenge the top 4.
The main thing holding us back is the stadium but the owner can show us all how fabulously wealthy he is (and that?s what it comes down to with Abramovich and Abu Dhabi) by updating the stadium (my preference) or relocating to a shiny new one.
The rules are theoretical at this stage because it?s hard to see how Uefa / Fifa can really control it. But if they do, and billionaires and consortiums continue to buy clubs, then I would have thought we would look more investable than we are now.
23 Posted 28/10/2011 at 12:20:41
Soulless success just doesn't do it for me... I mean, take Man City for example; how is that club representing Man City values? The Etihad Stadium? haha! They are representing the UAE and what oil money can do and if that were Everton I wouldn't have affinity towards it because it just wouldn't be the Everton I know and love.
Modern football is shite and if the only way to win is to be a soulless club who are referred to as a 'project' then I think I'll pass on it and vomit.
24 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:07:06
Yes for a brief second I may think we have bought the league but then I would order another pint and lose one more item of clothing doing my best to lose my voice singing as loud as I could.
25 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:14:30
26 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:20:56
27 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:23:14
28 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:27:58
Everton winning that way just doesn't interest me in the slightest, it's just so false and soulless.
If it ever did happen, I'm sure Everton wouldn't miss me, what with all the 'new' fans jumping aboard!
29 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:28:53
30 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:34:03
31 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:35:23
My point is simple, I support Everton and if we sold out and started spending zillions on tranfer fees and wages that our club couldn't NATURALLY afford then it would just be false and it would be like supporting a plastic version of Everton where our new stadium would be called something like the Qatari Foundation Stadium and we would forever be referred to as a 'project'
Not to mention the prima donna players who are blatantly playing for us just for the money and who would never touch us with a barge pole if we couldn't give them their £250'00 a week wages.
If that turns you on then go and support if it ever happens but I will follow my principles and support my local side instead (Redditch Utd)
32 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:41:00
33 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:39:45
Partly glory hunter and partly coz the manager had the same surname as me.
But I stuck through it, through the horrifc 90s and early 00s and I love Everton for what they are and I don't want them to become another rich person's plaything.
34 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:41:10
35 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:41:24
36 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:41:11
Certainly my several relatives who work at the plant have no concerns about who saved their company and who pays them.
Indeed, I have little doubt that if the foreign investment in our club was seen to be generous enough to solve our current problems and a proper business plan was seen to be in place,much of the scepticism I and other Evertonians feel would soon melt away. Perhaps we could even be persuaded to bin our toffee papers and embrace the Everton Jaguars!
37 Posted 28/10/2011 at 14:37:25
Marcus, as per Brian's post #30, Everton were once the buyers of players who sat on the top shelf. Believe me no one stood in our way when a player was targeted - if you supported the blues in the mid eighties then you must recall how we pursued Lineker and Dave Watson. I can assure you that we were not Lineker's first choice - but money talks and Leicester accepted our offer and Lineker accepted the highest weekly wage in the existing "First Divsion".
Nothing has changed that much Marcus. It's just that the weekly wage, for any of the top players, is now far bigger and Everton FC can no longer afford to pay them.
38 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:04:04
With all due respect mate i couldn't give a flying fuck how you would prefer Everton to be run.
What i do know is this. The current model is shite, my 9 year old manages his piggy bank better that what we have at the moment.
Football has moved on, it's now global and you need big money to compete.
It's the way the money is fitered down to the less fortunate clubs that is the problem.
Bring em on i say !
I can't wait to see Messi's face when Davey boy tells him he's playing at left back and ' Don't dare think of dribbling anyone either'.
39 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:09:17
40 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:24:13
41 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:36:12
Kenwright was also spotted at the "Money Tree"!
42 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:26:01
It's about degrees and scale.
It was the same in the 70's when we were still considered 'millionaires'.
We bought Latchford for what was a record (nb: that was a valuation on two players plus cash) but we didn't buy an ENTIRE side of Latchfords in one go.
Same when we bought Ball, a record signing but we didn't/couldn't get an entire team of £100,000 players which is what Chelsea and City HAVE been able to do.
THAT is the difference and it's a massive difference.
We might have been millionaires, these are billionaires.
Dave Lynch (37) - brilliant and like you I say bring 'em on,
In fact I'll beg - Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease buy us!!!
43 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:32:15
I doubt it will happen though. Too many false dawns to get excited.
44 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:31:35
So which players are playing for us now purely out of loyalty and the goodness of their hearts? None of them I would say. Football is simply a career/job to a pro and any and all of them would go where either the cash or the medals are likely to come their way. Osman may have come through the ranks and be part of the (tatty old) furniture but, if by some miracle, Mancini decided he wanted the one paced, little lizard looking lad from Skem and was prepared to quadruple his wages and give him the chance to showcase his 'getting shouldered off the ball' skills in the Champions League, then Leon would be off like a shot. Same with Cahill. Same with Howard. Same with Rodwell. Same with any of them.
"But we then didn't go out and buy Platini and Careca and Maradona and Bellanov and Butragueno and Zico and Scifco and Francescoli and Laudrup and Van Basten and Mathaus and Sanchez and Futre "
No, but it would've been fucking awesome if we did. Would beat buying Ian Wilson and Wayne Clarke anyway.
45 Posted 28/10/2011 at 16:11:36
Imagine the stands emptying and we're all shouting:
46 Posted 28/10/2011 at 16:49:12
Regardless of if we are bought by a billionare or not, I don't think we are being run well at all.
Going all the way back to 2004, the Rooney money saved us from a calamity and ever since we have been living on fumes, using increasing amounts of debt to fund operational expenses, nevermind purchasing players.
Will not go into details as its been done many times on TW already, but the business 'model' at the moment relies on hopefully having a decent player to sell every year just to keep the dogs at bay. This is not sustainable and even Kenwrong admits that we will lose around £4-5m every year.
If we can only keep the banks at bay by selling our best players, how is that being well run? It's just a matter of time before the quality of the squad is no longer high enough to avoid relegation. Add to that half our first team will be retired in the next 2-3 years.
How does the above translate into being 'well run'? If there are no significant changes I dread to think where we will be in 3-5 years' time.
47 Posted 28/10/2011 at 16:26:13
48 Posted 28/10/2011 at 17:44:37
49 Posted 28/10/2011 at 18:32:43
50 Posted 28/10/2011 at 19:11:07
51 Posted 28/10/2011 at 19:07:47
Well said mate, and it probably is a load of bollocks, but one thing's for sure: it will happen one day, I just hope I get to see it.
Altogether now..... There's nobody better than Mr R Tata,...
52 Posted 28/10/2011 at 19:52:57
Read the rest of Daisycutter instead of just looking for what you want to find. All links above. 2 + 2 may equal 5 but at least we have, at the moment, 2 + 2, which is more than we have had before.
53 Posted 28/10/2011 at 20:39:53
54 Posted 28/10/2011 at 20:46:12
Now another protest is lined up this gets leaked out.
PR stunt by the club.
55 Posted 28/10/2011 at 21:06:55
The source of the guys information is yet to be verified, but what information he believes he has, is being offered with the best of intentions.
56 Posted 28/10/2011 at 21:49:42
I want a well run club that's self-sufficient and does things the "right" way. It saddens me that "basic competency" is something that we're forced to be crying out for!
I don't have any problem with a rich investor as such, but I don't want a Chelsea or Manchester City type model. Yes, there have been rich clubs in the past, and we've been one of them, but Manchester City in particular are on a different plane. We're talking about a club that, effectively, has completely unlimited funds. The pre-Arab Manchester City don't really exist any more, they're a vanity project.
Would I be happy if we were that kind of club, went to Anfield and won 6-1? I'm sure I would, but I'm also sure that it wouldn't be the same as watching a successful team that had been built smartly, with some youth products, some unheralded signings to go with a few marquee players.
It's not that I don't want a rich investor. I just think it's more important to me to have a sustainable model that isn't reliant on an individual benefactor. Before last season, it *wouldn't* have taken us that much to push on as we needed. We wanted a couple of good quality signings to keep the momentum from the end of the previous season. The current circumstances meant we lost that opportunity; just as we've done many times under the current administration.
57 Posted 28/10/2011 at 22:30:29
58 Posted 28/10/2011 at 22:33:16
Looking at this thread, there are two trains of thought. First, the "I've supported Everton for x amount of years and I hate the Chelskis and City prostitutes." Or...
Second, "I love Everton and want loads of money so we can compete."
Hard one to work out which ethos is best and works for me.
On the one hand, I hate the corporate money and mercenary football that is the Premier League, and is personified by the fraudulent Fifa.
But on the other hand, it would be nice to have the finance to build a world beating club that we could ejaculate to week-in, week-out.
So, to me, this as usual is the 50/50 split that we have that is always what we are now having on TW. TW is now morphing into the written version of Radio TalkShite.
That's not a put down of the best website on the planet, it's just the way it's gone over the months and years.
To end all I'll say is that it seems that I've got legs over both sides of the fence. My anatomy is aching like a twat but what I will say is that, since the money men have started this, then we need, as a club, to get on board because, if we don't, then there will never be an equal playing field.
Once all the clubs who reside in the Premier League have this "Money", then we'll start to see the football that we had in the 70s and 80s.
Unless this happens, the Saturdays and Sundays will just revert to an SPL.
Maybe the kids will love it; so will I... as long as we win silverware.
Pissed right off, as it is.
59 Posted 28/10/2011 at 22:50:35
60 Posted 28/10/2011 at 23:15:04
61 Posted 28/10/2011 at 23:41:24
Sponge Bob... Elstone.... or Earle...?
62 Posted 29/10/2011 at 00:26:44
The Green Bay Packers Have the Best Owners in Football - BusinessWeek http://buswk.co/vhStkH
63 Posted 29/10/2011 at 00:51:02
64 Posted 29/10/2011 at 01:28:04
Wage caps has got to be the way forward, but it has to be through FIFA, worldwide, so players can't turn around and run off to a club not covered by the cap. It'll never happen, which is a massive shame as wages are a joke now. £100,000 to train 4 hours a day and then play 90 minutes on a weekend.
65 Posted 29/10/2011 at 02:49:58
As for "it isn't the Everton Way", like the current Everton Way is carrying all before it...
Nobody is too big: Cadbury, Rolls Royce etc.
But I'm sure the players wouldn't mind top-of-the-range Jags alround.
I will take a chance on it if it happens.
66 Posted 29/10/2011 at 08:24:19
We all know we're skint so there's no point in anyone making up crap about us signing players so all we're left with is rumours about takeovers. This one is just in time to coincide with the latest protest. Why is some Man City fan subject to knowledge of a takeover at Everton yet every other investigative journalist not? Why is this only being reported on some shite website that prides itself on made up crap?
Everton will only be sold when Bill absolutely has to i.e. we're in administration or when Bill dies.
67 Posted 29/10/2011 at 08:51:15
Also stories like this lend credence to Bill's claim that he's looking for investment, without him having to actually do anything concrete to back that statement up.
"Watch this space!"
Really hope I'm wrong though....
68 Posted 29/10/2011 at 10:03:45
69 Posted 29/10/2011 at 11:04:36
You can call it the most successful or competitive sport in the world but there's no building on success, there's no punishment for failure, the opposite in fact. As the system was designed for, teams are just franchises to maximise profit. Has the ring of 'everybody is a winner' that school sports days have over here and is ultimately soulless.
70 Posted 29/10/2011 at 11:18:35
When we began to struggle again, we sold Lescott, and used it to buy 3 decent players and now Arteta and Piennar have gone which allows Rodwell, Barkley and Drenthe to stake a claim and make names for themselves.
No doubt we will struggle again and be forced to sell Fellaini and perhaps Barkley at some point but those 2 potentially great players can help us buy another 5 ? 10 good players. That is how football has always worked and how it should be rather than using oil money from outside the game.
71 Posted 29/10/2011 at 11:25:47
72 Posted 29/10/2011 at 12:54:57
"No doubt we will struggle again and be forced to sell Fellaini and perhaps Barkley at some point but those 2 potentially great players can help us buy another 5 ? 10 good players. That is how football has always worked"
That is how football has ALWAYS worked?
You're like someone who takes a dump on every floor of a multi-story car park - wrong on so many levels.
HOW has football ALWAYS worked like that?
Let me help - it hasn't.
During the 60's, 70's, 80'S etc, it might have been good business for teams from the lower leagues to sell one or two decent players occasionally, to help their club's finances, but no first (ie: PL) division teams were having to CONSISTENTLY sell their best players or go under.
It broke my heart when we sold Alan Ball and we did so only because on paper, it seemed (to The Cat) good business (ie: keep the player 5/6 years or so, then sell him for double what you pay)
However we didn't HAVE to sell him.
Remember, revenue until relatively recently came almost totally from gate receipts, so even Utd (who regularly got 50,000+ in the late 70's) couldn't outspend us (or Liverpool, Spurs, City, Arsenal etc) by much.
This situation we're in (and 90% of the PL clubs) IS something new and absolutely NOT how football has always worked.
We didn't compete well between 70 and 84, but that wasn't anything to do with money or being forced to sell anyone.
Fact is we COULD have done well if we had got things right tactically etc.
Eventually we did and won a title.
100% impossible now.
Until the start of the 'world's greatest league', the majority of teams sold players because they wanted to, now many players are sold (particularly by us) because if they're not, the selling club can/will go under.
THAT is why it is not how it has 'always worked'.
One more thing - selling an 18 year old decreased the average age of the squad?
Oh well I was made up with that, as I'm sure we all were.
73 Posted 29/10/2011 at 13:10:34
74 Posted 29/10/2011 at 14:29:41
How about the Jain group link?
75 Posted 29/10/2011 at 14:59:24
I don't agree that transporting the system in total is what is being recommended, rather it may be worth considering adopting some of the elements of the system. Such as salary caps, equal share of TV money for example.
Obviously there are ramifications regarding a possible move of players into Europe, if they don't adopt a similar model. However, I seriously fear for the game across the board if the current financial situation continues. Something similar to the recent global financial crisis as a result of sub prime loans!
Also, the collegiate draft element of the NFL system would clearly not work. Even the MLS program in the US accepts that. In fact most MLS teams have now established their own acadamies to develop players from an early age.
76 Posted 29/10/2011 at 21:14:08
Eventually Ferguson and Campbell were to be replaced by Bent and Beattie. Radzinsiki was replaced by Andy Johnson, Cahill replacing Linderoth, Arteta replacing Graveson, Piennar repalced kilbane Baines replaced Naysmith and Pistone and Jaggs and Lescott replaced Weir and Stubbs. Howard replaced Martyn. So you do the Maths, did the squad get older or younger?
And yes teams have always sold players to buy new ones only recently teams like Chelsea and Man City havnt had to sell to buy.
77 Posted 29/10/2011 at 22:54:41
You say (as though you're teaching us something) - "And yes teams have always sold players to buy new ones only recently teams like Chelsea and Man City havnt had to sell to buy".
Seriously, are you fucking about or (more worryingly) do you REALLY not get it?
Yes (we fucking know) teams have always sold players to buy players but (READ THE FUCKING POST) as I pointed out, the DIFFERENCE is about HAVING to.
THAT is the difference and if you genuinely can't see it, more to be pitied than scolded.
(nb: what teams have done and what teams have HAD to do - not the same)
"Only recently teams like Chelsea and Man City haven't had to buy to sell"?
Sorry but you're simply making stuff up.
When we bought Latchford, we didn't HAVE to sell to buy, same with Martin Dobson, Alan Ball, etc etc.
Now not only do we HAVE to sell to buy, we have to sell (everyfucking!) to keep the banks away.
It - is - different.
As for your BIIIIIG point re the average age, maybe I SHOULD have been more to the point.
I'll rectify that now.
BIG FUCKING DEAL!!
Seriously, you sound like you'd be made up with an average age of four and a half.
Who gives a fuck!?
"Oh great the average squad age has gone down from 25.9 to 24.7. Sad to see the back of Rooney like but..every cloud'
Like many supporters today, you appear to have bought into the idea that any of that Sky stats shite matters - it doesn't.
Here's a fact that DOES: Whatever our squad's average age, in the 10 years Moyes has been in charge, we've won fuck all.
Geddit? (doubt it!)
78 Posted 29/10/2011 at 23:33:31
At least you admit you were wrong and that the average age of the squad was lower after Rooney left us though I suppose, so it?s a start. It was sad to see the back of Rooney but not so sad when we were finishing 4th the next season.
As for my point about having to sell players in order to buy, you say ?Now not only do we HAVE to sell to buy, we have to sell (everyfucking!) to keep the banks away.?
I?m sorry but we didn?t sell Arteta to keep the banks away, Moyes said he sold Arteta partly because Arteta wanted to leave and he felt he owed it to Arteta but ultimately the club comes first and he felt it was the right time and price to sell. The point is, of course, you have to sell to buy, we couldn?t have Arteta on £70k a week with Rodwell and Barkley not getting a look in.
There comes a time to make the decision to move on the older generation for the newer generation. Like Arteta, we didn?t NEED to sell Ball at the time we did... but we would NEED to sell them on in maybe another 2 or 3 years time; it would be at a much lower price but ultimately you do need to sell to buy. Sponsorship, TV revenue etc will only go so far, but even if you have the money to buy a player without selling, players would still have to be sold to make room in the team/squad for the players coming in to take their place further down the line.
79 Posted 30/10/2011 at 00:11:45
Arteta doesn't agree with ya - see his interview.
80 Posted 30/10/2011 at 04:55:18
Clubs like Tranmere have always sold players to survive, but the top division clubs were the ones buying them. We bought Gordon West for a massive, record fee for a goalkeeper and broke the transfer record for other players during the sixties and it made us successful. We didn't sell our best players to get other best players in and your argument about Rooney was ridiculous. He wanted to leave and his agent covertly engineered a move.
The club is totally mismanaged in all departments, the Gosling saga is an example: he was worth a few million yet he went for nothing because our Mickey Mouse management forgot to tie him to a contract.
Yes, I would love to see us successful without the obscene wealth of foreign gobshites with gold plated palaces while their fellow countrymen die in the gutter of starvation but in the real world, it's the only chance we have to regain our true place at the top of the English game.
81 Posted 30/10/2011 at 06:22:55
82 Posted 30/10/2011 at 07:52:03
This paragraph stood out though.
"There comes a time to make the decision to move on the older generation for the newer generation. Like Arteta, we didn?t NEED to sell Ball at the time we did... but we would NEED to sell them on in maybe another 2 or 3 years time; it would be at a much lower price but ultimately you do need to sell to buy"
Ah now I see it, so ultimately, so you WERE right all along.
Ffs - pathetic and (like a kid) obvious you would argue this no matter how much evidence to the contrary you were shown.
My last word (to you) on this is a question.
Can you tell me when Neville and Hibbo will be sold?
You know...as 'we would NEED to sell them on in maybe another 2 or three years' and as 'there comes a time to make the decision to move on the older generation'
Trevor (79) - How DARE you suggest Ian look at the facts rather than sticking with the version he's invented.
83 Posted 30/10/2011 at 07:33:37
84 Posted 30/10/2011 at 08:48:30
Sir John Moores may not have insisted Ball had to go but he would have insisted that the books were balanced. Catterick ? wrongly in most peoples view ? decided the easiest way to do that was unload Bally.
You're wrong, Ian, lad, clubs have never had the need to ballance the books ? they merely choose too ? and there wasn't really any need to bring down the avarage age of a squad that contained people like Martin, Carsley, Weir, Stubbs... they were probably good for another decade.
Check out THE "Arteta interview" Ian... it`ll all become very clear to you.
85 Posted 30/10/2011 at 10:41:30
John I think the reason we sold Arteta and Yakubu was more to do with wages and the fact that they were not performing to the level expected. Moyes also knew we had Vellios, Gueye Barkley and Rodwell ready to step up, not because we needed to sell them to keep the banks happy.
Eugene, Moyes has stated that Hibbert and Osman will always be here? probably because no one else would want them. I imagine they will be happy to sit on the bench towards the end of their career and play a small part when needed, like G Neville, Giggs and Scholes rather than players like Butt, Brown, Oshea and P Neville who probably wanted more guarantee of involvement in the first team. Moyes also said something along the lines that he wants Neville to take on a coaching role at some point, so I cant see him being sold either.
?Ffs - pathetic and (like a kid) obvious you would argue this no matter how much evidence to the contrary you were shown.?
It takes two to tango Eugene, you are as bad as me you hypocrite, you always want the last say on toffeeweb ;-)
86 Posted 30/10/2011 at 11:42:26
Secondly, if you truly believe the whole "Arteta wasn't for the sake of the banks and for rebuilding" then I'll advise you not to hold your breath waiting for a £10m marquee signing in January because it's never coming; the money has long gone the same way the Bellefield, Pienaar, Beckford, Vaughan and Yakubu money has.
87 Posted 30/10/2011 at 13:22:39
Secondly, I doubt Moyes will go out in January and buy a marquee signing because prices of players tend to be distorted so he will probably wait till the start of next season. If he does buy in January it will probably be one or two cheap signings or loans. But I doubt even that will happen.
I don't think we need to buy anyone desperately when we have people like Gueye, Barkley and Vellios still waiting to get a propper run out. If they don't prove themselves to be good enough this season, then Moyes will probably go and make some signing next season, especially if he decides to sell Fellaini or Barkley.
88 Posted 30/10/2011 at 13:26:42
I'm sure you will agree that we desperately need to buy in the transfer window. So, if your argument is correct, I expect to see the manager being given, if not all, then at least 75% of the money generated by the sale of the above. Therefore, as previously said let's wait and see.
If Moyes is given those funds. I will certainly state that I had my eyes wiped. I would also like to think that, if he isn't, you will be the first on here to express your displeasure.
89 Posted 30/10/2011 at 13:55:45
The Crickets - UK No.1 - 1 November 1957
90 Posted 30/10/2011 at 14:25:32
If the move to sell Yakubu was purely footballing reasons it is obvious it was a terrible decision, if it was for money then why are Heitinga and Billy still here stinking the place out so also an awful decision, ie they should have left first.
The Yak will score more than Saha this season. Saha is awful get him out the club washed up has been, few who can go with him Moyes top of that list.
91 Posted 30/10/2011 at 15:26:15
You genuinely believe Moyes will be buying player(s) in the summer? With what money?
92 Posted 30/10/2011 at 15:16:58
"No we just had to give Birmingham two players, one of them was our best player and after being Birminghams best player, he was was still good enough to play for us when he returned years later"
As per, stridently presented opinion dressed up as fact.
'One of them was our best player and after being Birmingham's best player' etc blah.
Well look, we could argue all night about whether Kendall was our 'best player' when he left, or Birmingham's, or whether he was 'good enough' when he returned (or whether we were simply bad enough) - however I'll skip going down that particular blind alley with you.
However, re 'No, we just had to give them two players' - wrong.
We didn't HAVE to do anything.
It was simply the deal best for BOTH clubs at the time.
(nb: didn't HAVE to - CHOSE to).
It suited us and it suited Birmingham and at the time (unlike with Ball) there were no noticeable 'Kendall-must-stay' feeling (and certainly no 'Styles must stay' protests).
We had the money as would be proved 6 months later when we paid (a record) £300000 for Dobson.
And this is the point - We KNOW it didn't suit Everton FC for Rooney to go, or Pienaar or Lescott or Arteta and it won't suit us when Barkley and/or Fellaini go.
But it WILL suit the bank.
Not a difficult distinction to see...for most.
Oh fuck it - blind alley.
As great a player as Howie was (and he was!) imo, we'd definitely seen the best of him by the time he left and personally, I think (the much slagged) Mick Lyons was our best player the season before Latchford arrived.
(nb: and whoever was 'the best', they would have only been the best of an incredibly average bunch).
As for who was the best at Birmingham, l've no idea (but...wasn't Trevor Francis there when Howie was?)
93 Posted 30/10/2011 at 15:36:08
I'm not holding my breath either
94 Posted 30/10/2011 at 15:39:59
you say ?We KNOW it didn't suit Everton FC for Rooney to go, or Pienaar or Lescott or Arteta and it won't suit us when Barkley and/or Fellaini go.?
I would argue it did and it will. What was the point in having Rooney when we finished 17th? It?s no good having one potentially great player and ten poor/average players alongside him. We couldn?t even get the ball to Rooney most of the time in his final season which lead to him getting frustrated and gaining more yellow cards than goals. We didn?t realise it at the time but it did make more sense to Everton to Man Utd and to Wayne to do the deal. We sold one potentially great player and over the following 4 or 5 seasons brought in around 10 decent/good players? and 2 or 3 shite. But overall it was an improvement on what we had before.
John, no I don?t agree that we are desperate to buy in the transfer window, as I stated in my post to Gavin I don?t expect us to spend in January, the last thing we want is another panic buy and wasting money. Lets give Vellios Drenthe and Barkley a chance to prove themselves first.
Gavin, what more do you want from me? 5th comes after 4th so we must have been the closet challenges for 4th with the team that finished 4th. And Yes I do believe Moyes will be buying players in the summer with the Arteta money and maybe the Fellaini money if he doesn?t sign in January.
95 Posted 30/10/2011 at 16:08:18
We haven't really got the squad not too !!
We're just outside the bottom 3 and in my opinion need someone almost everwhere from front to back.
Wafer thin squad and been dead lucky with injuries and suspensions so far.
OK lets give you the benefit of the doubt - again !!
Lets put the spare money we've got in the bank now - according to you, and put that in the pot we would spend close season anyway. Surely we can expect Moyes to spend upwards of 15 mill ????
Again I'll apologise if I'm wrong - will you ??
96 Posted 30/10/2011 at 16:14:56
Evertonians were gutted when Kendall left, he was still a relatively young player ? part of the trinity. Birmingham didnt want to sell Latchford either, but Billy boy was desperate to make his stellar signing and Birmingham made him pay ? a bit like the Lescott deal.
Attempts to rewrite history may slip through the radar of the younger fan, but even they remember what happened a couple of months ago.
Arsenal's initial bid for Arteta was turned down and it was only when he said he wanted to go that the deal was resurrected; sure, it made the banks happier, but the ONLY reason Arteta left was because he wanted to.
97 Posted 30/10/2011 at 17:51:11
If we don?t then yes I will start asking some questions, but I have nothing to apologise for, it would be Bill Kenwright who should be apologising if we don?t see any of the money, but at this moment imo the squad is fine, we have a decent squad, Barkley hasn?t even been able to get on the bench until the last couple of games.
98 Posted 30/10/2011 at 18:23:20
Not having a pot to piss in, extremely small squad, antiquated stadium, incompetent board, negative coaching plus a team that plays some of the most imagination-free and mind-numbing football I have ever seen..... is this running a club 'The Everton Way'? If so then I will take the Russian / Arab / Indian billionaire + mercenary superstars any day of the week.
99 Posted 30/10/2011 at 18:46:37
I can understand a lot of people saying they dont want to do it that way but they want to do it the Everton way. What way is thta I would like ot know. This is the environment we are in at the moment this would be wonderful for the Blues. I am so sick of seeing crab football at the moment
100 Posted 30/10/2011 at 18:56:49
101 Posted 30/10/2011 at 18:55:06
102 Posted 30/10/2011 at 19:03:40
Using your view on buying in the summer with Arteta money plus possibly Fellaini money would you say that would be two players then to replace the two we would be down or just the one or a Moyes special of unknown lower league kids from distant lands?
103 Posted 30/10/2011 at 19:07:57
104 Posted 30/10/2011 at 19:16:35
I hate going the game and have done for God knows how long , is that what football is about Ian? but we can still say we are doing it the Everton way.
I looked at the support yesterday and from the first minute there was an air of expectancy to us getting beat, is that what football is about?
My mates five year old kid is questioning wether he wants to go anymore< are any Man City five year olds?
We still harp on about Sharps screamer 26 years ago, I am sure many of us would die happy to witness what City did last week.
It is simply jealousy to say we dont want what they have, i have a three year old and when I take him next season I want him to enjoy it and not go to school facing years of ridicule and if that means having a few Norwegians coming to our matches with plastic bags full of soverneir shop shit then so be it, as supporting Everton should at least have some fun and for anyone under the age of 30 there has been jack shit apart from one day in 95.
If I saw a big fuck off jumbo with our name in big fat letters on it I would think, right pay back time lets enjoy what is coming, not boo hoo I want my old miserable Everton back.
105 Posted 30/10/2011 at 19:37:27
106 Posted 30/10/2011 at 19:45:29
The Everton academy is not going to produce a 20-30m pound player every 4-5 years (that includes Rodwell and Barkely - lets get real here) and we are not going to be able to con Man City every couple of years either.
Other than Baines and Fellaini I dont think we have any players that would currently fetch more than 10m (dont think Wenger is going to come in with an 8 figure offer for Jags again given his form!). A business model cannot rely on luck.
If we were desperate to pay off loans then Fellaini and Baines would be the logical next to go - that would pretty much guarantee relegation. All we can do is wait until January and see whether it was bullshit about Moyes getting the Arteta money to bring in new players (although players coming in in Jan tend not to actually do that well anyway).
107 Posted 30/10/2011 at 20:00:40
Gavin, you say ?we made it once through the RS having their worst season for years?
They were the European Champions so it was an even bigger achievement to finish above them especially since we had one of the worst squads wev had having sold our two best players Rooney and Graveson. Obviously our definitions differ when it comes to challenging for the top 4, but in my eyes finishing 5th or 6th means we were challenger?s to 4th place.
If someone boxes against the heavy weight Champion and loses by a distance on points he is still called the challenger.
When Chelsea won the league by a distance does that mean they had no challenger?s? Bollocks.
With Arteta being allowed to move on that doesn?t mean we need to go out and buy if Barkley shows signs he can fill the gap and if Fellaini is sold and Rodwell shows he can fill the gap then maybe we will not need to buy two midfielders, it might be wiser to spend the money on 2 top quality strikers instead.
108 Posted 30/10/2011 at 20:41:53
Haha your mates 5 year old kid is questioning whether he wants to go anymore? Exactly he is a kid, why are you taking it to heart? I probably said the same thing when I was a child and didn?t know any better. I faced years of ridicule at school for being an Evertonian that?s why one Evertonain is worth 20 liverpudlians, its what makes you stronger in life and why you can take the hardship in life better than a red shite, its why we are not as arrogant and delusional. I would happily bring my child up a blue and explain to them this is life, its hard, people will cheat and buy success, but get over it, you will just have to work harder than everyone else and you will be prouder and more appreciative for it.
109 Posted 30/10/2011 at 20:43:49
Maybe a few will come all at once or maybe we will have a gap of 5 years but the talent is there. I also think we could get at least £15m for Rodwell just for the fact he is English and plays for the U-21s. I think Barkley is much more talented than Rodwell so I think we could be looking at £20-£30m in the next couple of years. £20m is the going rate for average English players look at Henderson.
110 Posted 30/10/2011 at 20:56:24
Mick Lyons must have really impressed you that season seeing as though he played in less than 50% of our league matches.
111 Posted 30/10/2011 at 21:11:17
You also use the analogy of the heavy weight boxing match as challenger - have you ever taken long odds against any of these? Did you ever bet against Frank Bruno and some of the utter shite he was pitted against in challenge fights? The label challenger is pretty meaningless if they are there to make up numbers
112 Posted 30/10/2011 at 21:52:35
You state - "Eugene, how did it suite Tranmere selling Dean or Blackpool selling Ball? That is the way football is and has been only we have become the Blackpool and the Tranmere".
Well it may NOT have 'suite-ed' them, which is why I SPECIFICALLY wrote..
"During the 60's, 70's, 80'S etc, it might have been good business for teams from the lower leagues to sell one or two decent players occasionally, to help their club's finances, but no first (ie: PL) division teams were having to CONSISTENTLY sell their best players or go under".
Take the words 'First' and 'consistently' then give me the same argument.
Facts: Tranmere weren't in THE TOP FLIGHT, and Blackpool didn't have to CONSISTENTLY sell their top players (and weren't in the top division themselves by 67)
If you have proof to the contrary, I would be interested, if not, why not stop making a twat of yourself with ever desperate non point-scoring bollocks.
Tip: Read the posts as written, not the ones that exist only in your head.
Dave Wilson (96) - can't compete with that, pure twaddle, all of it ('attempts to rewrite history' - from you, genius!)
113 Posted 30/10/2011 at 23:14:53
114 Posted 31/10/2011 at 01:15:35
In my analogy the boxer is still called the challenger when facing the Champion. So I will go with their definition rather than yours sorry.
Eugene, I don?t need to try to score points against you, I am just giving my honest opinion like you are giving yours. You are the one who is hurling the insults to score points, just because you are losing the argument no need to get ratty. Sorry if I missed one of your points which you SPECIFICALLY wrote but you and others have missed many of my points at times that I have SPECIFICALLY mentioned as well. Like Gavin in the post above missing that I mentioned spending money on strikers rather than midfielders.
The difference now compared with the 60?s 70?s and 80?s is that the top league is divided into 2 or 3 leagues itself with the top 5 or 6 in a league of their own who have the financial backing, with another 10 teams making up the numbers and 4 or 5 teams fighting over relegation.
What is ?consistent? or ?occasionally? anyway? Is it having to sell a player say every 4 or 5 years like Everton or is it every 7 or 8 years like Man Utd? The thing is there is a bit of confusion over some players, did we have to sell them or was it because they asked to leave, same with Man Utd did they have to sell Beckham, Ronaldo, Van Nistleroy Brown, Oshea? Where do you draw the line and say Everton sell consistently but Man Utd only sell occasionally?
115 Posted 31/10/2011 at 02:49:25
116 Posted 31/10/2011 at 03:34:10
"Everton supremo Bill Kenwright is in talks with the Jain Group ? a wealthy Indian company ? about becoming his club?s financial saviour. The Mumbai-based conglomerate are huge in their own country, with energy and property businesses, and they now want to expand into England. Jain have their sights on Everton as a possible project, pumping in cash for a new ground.Leading officials from the company are looking into ways of buying Everton or lending them money, with Kenwright kept on in some capacity ? and boss David Moyes given a boost in the process."
117 Posted 31/10/2011 at 04:50:48
I read the exceedingly short article in the Mirror.
Remember whats gone on in the past at this time of year, added to the fact another protest march is coming up.
If it wasn't so embarrassing it would be laughable.
I would have thought the journalist in question would have made more of an attempt to establish all the facts and write an article with substance, after all we are supposed to be one of the biggest clubs in Britain.
Fuck me the Bournemouth takeover got a bigger write up !!
118 Posted 31/10/2011 at 05:06:22
119 Posted 31/10/2011 at 05:03:28
120 Posted 31/10/2011 at 05:26:38
121 Posted 31/10/2011 at 05:24:20
Good one Bill.
122 Posted 31/10/2011 at 05:58:15
123 Posted 31/10/2011 at 06:20:16
Its gone Ian, long gone and it isn't coming back, Everton are living hand to mouth and thats not going to change any time soon.
124 Posted 31/10/2011 at 06:26:19
Lyons and He were chalk and cheese, Big, strong, fit as, in the Middle Distance sprint that is the PL he would probably be worth millions doing Fellaini's job and a better tackler.
Both Lion Hearted Legends.
125 Posted 31/10/2011 at 06:39:22
Its jealousy and if we were in their position we would all be in dreamland, you included.
126 Posted 31/10/2011 at 06:55:39
I saw the 70 team, again brilliant and again we didn't kick on. The 80s team, well we weren't allowed to kick on.
This has been our history. I've read some of these posts about how we'd hate to be taken over by xy and z cos its not the " Everton way "
What utter shite !! What Everton way ???
I'd love my kids and grandkids to go to Analfield and beat the shit 6-1 !!! Challenge for honours for a few years and then get dumped.
Thats been the history of Everton FC !!!!!!!!!
127 Posted 31/10/2011 at 08:23:48
128 Posted 31/10/2011 at 10:33:45
I will NEVER forget how I felt the week before that Wimbledon game and that threat could still reappear, will it for Man city?
129 Posted 31/10/2011 at 11:05:36
It's also about bringing through young talented players and developing them. The "Everton Way" is doing things the ?right way?, it's not harassing refs, it's not diving or spitting, it's not cheating. That is my interpretation anyway and what i have witnessed.
130 Posted 31/10/2011 at 11:43:28
So what if some of the players had never kicked a ball in the premier league, neither had Rooney at one stage then look what he did, if Barkley is half as good as Rooney then it shouldn?t matter if he?s never kicked a ball in the PL. Drenthe has kicked a ball in the Spanish league which you could argue is as good if not better than the PL, similar arguments could be put forward for some of the others on the bench so yes I do believe that is fine, not ideal, but acceptable.
As for your other point, yes I said at the moment we have more than enough to cope, people like Gueye, Barkley, Vellios and Drenth have hardly had a look in, by next summer things might have changed, maybe Vellios might not cut the mustard, maybe Drenthe will be on his bike, maybe Saha will retire, maybe Barkley or Fellaini will be sold.
In answer to your other question, there is no point in buying a striker in January for a number of reasons, firstly, we already have Vellios and Denis sitting on the bench seeing what they have got to offer, if they prove to be not good enough then we can spend money in an area that is needed rather than panic buying a striker only to realise later that velios or Denis a far better players and the money could have been spent better elsewhere. Maybe Drenthe will leave and it will have to be spent on a winger.
We also know that in January prices tend to be a lot higher than they would be In the Summer. Finally its only a matter of time before Saha calls it a day, so it might be wiser to wait until the summer and see what he decides to do. But who knows maybe next season Baxter, Long or Hope might come on leaps and bounds and the decision might be made to buy finch farm instead, there are many options but the last thing we want is to make a decision without weighing up all the options and make another Bily signing.
131 Posted 31/10/2011 at 11:46:21
132 Posted 31/10/2011 at 11:53:49
133 Posted 31/10/2011 at 12:11:50
You obviously didn't see Alan Ball - didn't give the refs an inch !!
Gabriel, Morrissey they could be evil bastards.
Diving and cheating ?? Remember Anders Limpar against Wimbledon - kept us up.
Pienaar, on the ground if breathed on.
Arteta - come on ? A foul EVERY time ??
Ian I could go through EVERY Everton team and give you example after example.
You are definetly wearing rose tinted specs !
All our so called, for a better name " Golden periods " have been followed by absolute dross.
From 62 - 71 then shite. 80s then shite.
I want my grandkids to see us at least challenging for honours. At least not struggling against Blackburn and Fulham.
At least not depending on some Greek kid to bail us out because there is NO alternative.
If that means getting some foreign investor in and giving us a few years of glory then bailing out to be dross again then so be it. Because THAT has been the Everton way since I've been going
134 Posted 31/10/2011 at 12:55:45
Of the Everton team now, I can't think of any who I have seen dive or any of the other. Yakubu who is not here was the last I saw dive but he has gone ? and it was once or twice, not every other game, like some of the cheating bastards for Liverpool and Chelsea.
135 Posted 31/10/2011 at 13:14:55
136 Posted 31/10/2011 at 16:31:47
We're skint Ian. Potless. Brassic.
137 Posted 31/10/2011 at 16:47:34
The first part of that sentence is easy to believe. The second part sounds like something you've tried to convince yourself of for years.
138 Posted 31/10/2011 at 18:23:51
Haha thats a good one for you John. You sound just like those Liverpool fans that i had to put up with as a child, but it's like water off a ducks back now that i have grown up, clearly you havnt though. Perhaps you are still bitter about your own issues at school and want to lash out at the world. You can do it John if i can do it, keep the faith, remember you are a blue, one Evertonian is worth 20 reds.
139 Posted 31/10/2011 at 18:53:49
Moving on you mention Drenthe and Denis may be off, well some news for you Ian, we don't own them so unless some significant change happens we never will and they will be off in the summer. Expanding that more then if we are paying the wage of Denis for the season and he's barely getting game time then what's the point in him being here? Moyes had a striker on the books that cost him fuck all yet scored a good number of goals in Beckford and looked predictably shite when played in the Moyes' private hard on formation as a lone striker as he'll never be one.
Price wise for Everton going to the shops now we'll be held at gunpoint as we'll be desperate and its open knowledge potless whether its January or summer, I'd predict a January and possibly summer sale at lastminute.com again where we see player(s) out and nothing to note coming in maybe another foetus or loan from distant shores.
140 Posted 31/10/2011 at 19:51:13
Rooney was a kid who had only played against kids but he was more than capable of taking a place in the squad, incase you have forgotten players like Baxter and Duffy have now played in more than just kids games. I?m not saying the next lot of kids will be as good as Rooney but if one or 2 are of similar ability to a Vaughn or Rodwell then that will be good enough for a place on the bench.
You are right about Drenthe and Denis but that is my point, we don?t have to worry about them moving on until the Summer, and if they are any good we can offer them a contract and not worry about buying another striker or a winger. The point of Denis being here is for emergencies should Saha or Velios get injured. It is a long season and he has already played a part by getting an assist against Wigan.
141 Posted 31/10/2011 at 20:28:48
I'm not worried about Drenthe right now as he's getting game time but can't see the point in Denis, he's burning a wage for no return and both will disappear in the summer leaving us with a smaller squad again. Baxter should be getting game time not left to rot playing with kids and Duffy was shipped out to play in lower leagues, we've had a whole set of kids released every year for the last few years.
We need a mixture of old heads and new to teach and nurture the youth, we've got too many players at the ends of their careers, some in their prime but obvious targets to keep the club out of administration and kids who will be of no use to anyone if they are thrown over the top like cannon fodder as our last line of defence.
142 Posted 31/10/2011 at 20:50:51
What did those despicable reds do to you? Maybe it's because it's Halloween but I'm imagining the scene from Carrie:
The camera rotating rapidly around a wild eyed Ian, stood up on the stage in his pigs blood splattered prom dress, with the words "they're all going to laugh at you, they're all going to laugh at you, they're all going to laugh at you" reverberating through his head.
Either that or they just said stuff like 'Everton are shit lad and that Hafnia kit looks itchy as fuck compared to our comfy new Crown Paints number'.
Either way i admire the way you've bounced back and not allowed it to scar you for life.
143 Posted 31/10/2011 at 22:03:05
144 Posted 31/10/2011 at 22:56:35
The fact is we have been in top flight football longer than any other and one of the reasons is because we as a city will produce the talent and that is why it is not daft to rely on the youth as a strategy, it is inevitable that we will produce good young players if you look at History.
You will never convince me that bringing in a billionaire is the right option just like I will never convince you that having a billionaire is the wrong way to go. We just have different principles and your entitled to yours.
You are very funny John, I can imagine you at school being the class clown or maybe you were more the piss taker at the back of the class with the wise cracks.
Those characters usually got put in their place before they left school and never tried to be funny again, but I suppose like you they are still the same piss takers only they can get away with it by hiding behind a computer screen getting cheap thrills trying to bring back memories of the glory days when they had a prestige and a status in life.
Get out there John, stop living in the past, you do have worth now in the present, just cut out all this negative childishness and you can still go far. Because you are an Evertonian I?m willing to give you this free advice.
145 Posted 31/10/2011 at 23:15:31
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