David Moyes is one of the few managers in the Premier League who could start as badly as he has, once more, and avoid the dreaded vote of confidence. He has a safe hugely paid job. Even if the club could afford to sack him, Kenwright never will. Although I wish he would go, I'm prepared to accept that many Evertonians want him to stay... in fact they nk he does a great job. So, no pressure from the supporters and no pressure from his chairman; athi comfortable cushy number.
Bill Kenwright has mostly been lauded by the press, he lives the dream on the cheap; Moyes keeping him as a Premier League chairman will do just fine.
The players: well... it seems to me to be pretty difficult to get oneself dropped from the first team. Safe, highly paid jobs with the knowledge that the manager will pick most of them no matter how consistently poor they are.
The supporters: well... Moyes turns it round every year, of course he'll do it again. Deep down we know that we'll soon move up the table and all will be well. It's all a little smug (I include myself in this)... all a little bit comfortable.
I think this is going to change. We are playing without confidence and belief. Too many defeats, no matter who against, are slowly draining morale. The supporters of David Moyes probably believe that a couple of wins will turn it round. I believe that we are a couple of defeats from disaster.
David Moyes is too often praised for turning around a situation that he has helped to create. Come May, October and November seem to be forgotten. It is time for this comfortable alliance to be shattered. If Moyes won't resign, then no talk of a new contract should be countenanced.
In the absence of Kenwright's departure, we need something new on the pitch. There can be life without Moyes.
Andy Crooks, Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:53:50
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1 Posted 05/11/2011 at 23:41:27
2 Posted 05/11/2011 at 23:48:36
3 Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:26:48
Well that says it all to me, he clearly does not have the clubs best interest at heart. And for that he should be sacked or even better, be forced to resign. The only way for that to happen are if the BU start a protest against Moyes as well, it will take time, but it has to happen. The future of this club hangs in the balance.
Fellaini is the next to be sold as Moyes will not be able to sign him on a new contract. It is bleak, but we must all act now. Start by showing up at the BU protest and take it from there. Kenwright has given into pressure and now all eyes are on him to deliver, the BU has won already, even if they dont realise it. But Moyes is our next focus of protest, MOYES, LET GO IF YOU LOVE THE CLUB!!
Hope to be reading about a sucessful march and I also think Moyes will start to question the loalty of the BU, he is counter productive, and he will show his true colors, letting you all know that he hates the BU, and loves Kenwright.
4 Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:40:47
Until then, I shall be treating the malcontented buggers with the contempt they deserve.
5 Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:28:33
Two things on Saturday summed his rapidly decaying managership for me.
First: You?re two goals down but it?s still an open game. One of your six ? count ?em, six ? starting defenders goes down injured and you replace him with? another defender!
Second: It?s late in the game. You?re just one goal behind. You?re putting on pressure without looking like making a real breakthrough. You take off a defender and bring on ? Vellios with two goals to his credit? No. The mysterious Denis Stracqualursi? No. A crocked winger who hasn?t kicked a ball in senior competitive football for 15 months? Absolutely!
If Moyes had any sense of honour or shame he would resign. He must know better than us that he is out of ideas. A quarter of the way through the season and our best hope is avoiding the drop? After ten years? Dave! For God?s Sake Go!
6 Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:29:56
After 10 years?...you make it sound like we've been battling relegation every one of those ten..a little bit balance please?
7 Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:57:59
8 Posted 06/11/2011 at 03:24:32
Who is to replace him? That's just a debating ruse to divert attention from the main thrust. He must go ? and go soon. The fact is that if you don't like the available managers in November when we are hovering close to the drop zone, wait till you see the level of candidates if we're actually in the Championship.
9 Posted 06/11/2011 at 04:03:50
He has never been a good manager, just a lucky one. There were signs years ago when he was riding the crest that he was clueless ie Shrewsbury, Blackburn (cup) and Spurs at home, midweek game. 1-1 with a couple of mins to go and he takes off a striker and throws Weir on, we lose. Same stunt against City and Richards levels in injury time.
He hasn't got a clue how to use the players at his disposal and panics if were winning with a few mins to go. We have a squad full of internationals and U-21s but when they play for us they don't look even PL class:
Howard . . . USA
Baines . . . .England
Jagielka . . .England
Distin . . . . .France
Heitinga . . Netherlands
Fellaini . . . Belgium
Cahill . . . . .Australia
Coleman . Ireland
Drenthe . . Netherlands
Rodwell . . .England U21
Saha . . .France
Vellios . . . Greece U21
I'm sure a decent manager could get most of these performing better than they are at present.
10 Posted 06/11/2011 at 06:09:29
We have become victims of over acheivement, we need to be realistic i would love to see us win the league but when we have City's Billions etc it will be hard. We cant get at Moyes too much because he works on a tight budget make the best of what we have and stay positive although sometimes it is hard.
Remember what Moyes has done for us....COYB
11 Posted 06/11/2011 at 06:12:16
BK has singularly failed to keep up with the changing beast that is the EPL. As much as I sympathise with him now being out of his depth financially, he's had plenty of options to improve the situation and has either not delivered or chosen the wrong horse to back.
Unfortunately those turkeys are going to come home to roost. Every year we bank on 3 clubs being worse than us. Now teams we used to bank on finishing above can outspend us on fees and wages.
Unless Moyes can continue to over-achieve, we can only slide backwards, until we eventually slide off.
12 Posted 06/11/2011 at 08:08:03
His reluctance to stray from 4-5-1 is destroying us, this formation stopped working years ago. It used to work ok when were tight at the back and could grind out 1-0 wins, but he seems to think that this formation is solid when in truth it is anything but. We concede silly goals in virtually every game we play so more often than not we end up chasing games, and even then he wont alter the formation to something more attacking.
In seasons gone by we have starts like this, then when we look down and out we start grinding out wins with back to the wall stuff, but this year I fear for us as I don't see where the goals and points are coming from. We have very little up front, selling Beckford was a mistake, although he wasn't the finished article he could finish and gave us another dimension with his pace. Moyes must have been banking on Saha and Cahill to get at least 10 goals each this season to see us through however this doesn't look likely at the moment.
We need a change and quick, we need sombody like Moyes 10 years ago, somebody young and hungry with new ideas and not afraid to try and win games. My choices would be Lambert at Norwich or Adkins at Southampton, both would fit this mould. Of course it is not going to happen and we will be stuck with Moyes's negative tactics for the forseeable.
13 Posted 06/11/2011 at 08:19:02
And no-one to replace him is not a good enough excuse . We still have a decent squad except for strikers or the lack of use of them. One of the only positives in Moyes favour. He's over paid, lacks tactical knowledge and always tries to play the percentage game ie we kick off with a point let's defend it.
I for one think the BU should pressure Moyes too. The game I realised Moyes was inept was Dinamo Bucerest away, kept giving him another chance every season, it's just a waste of time. We need a new owner NOW and a short list of managers.
14 Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:02:32
15 Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:12:21
16 Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:12:12
17 Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:27:09
Couldn't have have put it better myself!
18 Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:35:51
19 Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:42:13
20 Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:42:39
I would argue that we actually under-acvieved dirung those years.
On at least one of the occasionjs we finished fifth we blew it when we were clear of Liverpool coming up tp Easter.
And in that Cup Final we had a goal start and then sat back and let them pound us instead of going for it.
No.....I don't buy this "over-achieving" mallarky.
It is too readily used by the Moyes apoloigists.
As for "expectations" being high.
You're durn tootin.
When I see EFC near the top of the league and playing in Cup Finals I expect an almighty push to succeed....not withdrawal into defensive shells.
21 Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:37:17
Not convinced by Rodgers though
As for Moyes hes not a bad manager but equally hes just not really that good
my pet hates with him are
not building up from the back and lumping the ball forward which gives possession away cheaply, name me a good side that doesn't build up from the back?
his decision making, he takes WAY to long to see how a game is panning out and where problems lie and just lets the game drift without making a DECISIVE change, you can't dither as a manager but since his ability to read a game is so poor thats exactly what he does.
How he spent the Lescott money was criminal, he bought an exact replacement in Distin which is fine but then proceeds to buy Heitinga who we just didn't need and certainly not for the wages hes on either. I just didn't understand the signing of Heitinga at the time and my misgivings about his signing have unfortunately born true. Same with Bilyaletdinov, I thought when we signed him it was a mistake as Russian players don't travel/adapt well generally plus again I didn't see where he was going to play. Apparently he was a left winger but we had Pienaar there and a right sided players was much more required at the time. Unfortunately he hasn't worked out and I didn't expect him to, so Moyes has had money to improve our squad, he just failed to buy the right players
Also selling Beckford was a shocking decision, sure he wasn't the best but we have zero strikers as it is so why deplete the forward line further?
I could go on about my pet hates for Moyes but theres no point, hes at Everton til he decides hes 'outgrown' us. And to the media who still link him to the Man Utd job in the future, are they having a laugh?!
22 Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:45:54
Someone on here said it already but what we need is someone like Moyes ten years ago - this one we have has been beaten.
23 Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:14:04
Go on say it,it's easy.MOYES OUT
MOYES OUT .............
24 Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:36:05
If Moyes left now would he leave us in better shape than when he took over for immediate and long term future of the club?
25 Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:51:51
What is so sad is that we have fallen so far that it is only on here (Toffeeweb) a fanzine site that those words are spoken. Has everyone's expectations fallen so low? In fact the press think that we aren't even worth a mention, when they do it is only to say that we are lucky to have DM as manager!
26 Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:58:56
Moyes's teams over the past 3 years have played dire defensive unimaginative football and yet he is still lauded as the greatest manager the world has ever seen. If that were so, why haven't any of the BIG clubs come a calling? Because, my friends, he is not really that good a manager when it comes down to winning.
He just hasn't got that little extra to take it to the next level and I think those that know, know that. Spurs will not touch him with a barge pole. The only place left for him to go after Everton is back to Scotland either as the National Manager, which I don't think he would take, or to Celtic. And all I would say is "Bye Bye, Davey, Take the fucking high road and don't come back."
27 Posted 06/11/2011 at 16:12:03
28 Posted 06/11/2011 at 16:50:02
Manchester United have Alex Ferguson, Arsenal have Arsene Wenger, Spurs have Harry Redknapp and any Everton manager taking over across the park is untenable. All are very happy with who they have in place.
Chelsea and Manchester City are johnny-come-lately-ten-bob-millionaires and although immeasurably wealthy cannot contend with ourselves and the aforementioned other four in terms of history, heritage or almost any other criteria you may care to compare and contrast. They are not 'bigger' than Everton.
Therefore, they haven't come for him because they have a good manager in place (with the exception of the Gobshites of course, who have that Olympic gold medal winning Gobshite in charge).
Things are definitely stalling at the moment and some (extremely) urgent changes in the team and tactics are needed - but all this 'Moyes out' stuff is just juvenille.
29 Posted 06/11/2011 at 20:22:45
Not even his most ardent supporters could put forward a case for Moyes deserving a new deal, when he was finishing 4th and 5th perhaps but now Everton are top 8 at best which is nothing more than the turnover suggests we should be .
30 Posted 06/11/2011 at 20:31:00
Where's this talk of a new contract coming from?
31 Posted 06/11/2011 at 20:48:16
It's sad to say history doesn't matter that much to players, unless it's very recently and our last trophy was 1995. That's ancient history for an awful lot of current footballers. It surely doesn't matter to them that me and thousands of others stood in the Stands with their dads and or granddads and saw The Golden Vision or saw the Holy Trinity or saw the beginnings of the great teams in the '80s...I think it's time for somebody to ask David Moyes to take a taxi ride....
32 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:04:55
So I watched when we were good so therefore...???
33 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:00:16
True, we are not doing very well right now and following what seems to have evolved as our typical season template.
But, this is 2011 in a first division infected by greed, obscene wages, ridiculously inappropriate owners, vulgar players and all manner of other 'attributes' we would not wish our great club, Everton, to become infected with.
Things will change. This cannot go on forever. The so-called Premiership will implode before much longer. It simply cannot go on in such an unsustainable, two-fingers-to-the-lot-of-you manner.
When it does, we will be supporters of one of the only 'big' clubs not to have sold its soul to Asia, Arabia or America and I for one will be very proud of that.
Then - and now - I believe that no-one could do a better job than David Moyes and that all his current critics need to take a step back and look at the bigger, broader picture.
Yes, we're poor at the moment and he has to change his ways. This obsession he has with 4-5-1, a team half full of ineffective favourites and a stubborn refusal to bring young players through is having inevitable consequences.
Let's not forget however, it is HE who has raised our expectations in the first place.
Those who are now calling for his head need to seriously consider who else is there... could they do any better with the resources he has at his disposal... and are we really doing SO badly?
A lot of them also need to bite their tongue and accept they were wrong after suggesting everyone from Di Matteo and Coyle to Sven and even Eddie Howe (see above). Yeah, the guy who's led Burnley to 18th place in the second division: let's get him in.
Perhaps, having had my first season ticket in 1971 and seen everyone from Gordon Lee, Mike Walker and Walter Smith do their worst, I am able to benefit from a sense of perspective.
So come on the hanging crowd. We're struggling, yes. But teetering on the edge of disaster that requires a manager to be sacked? Get real.
34 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:16:06
35 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:13:30
36 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:03:22
I believe Moyes actually bought Heitinga with the intention of using him at right back, where he'd played for Atletico Madrid and Holland. In his first few games there for us though it looked as though he'd never played that position in his life. I also seem to remember him coming out a while back and declaring that he refused to play there anymore and had told the manager as much.
37 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:19:04
Now then David what's going on? It looks like you've thrown the towel in - getting beat is one thing abject surrender another. Are you up for the fight or not? Remember the arsing around over your contract and the Lescott business - we don't want shite dragging on like that do we?
This squad you've got ain't up to strolling around going through the motions yet that looks exactly what they're doing - why?
Bily and Jonny H - why have you got 15 million quid warming the bench you know we haven't got a penny?
Where are the youngsters pushing to get in the first team, and not just defenders?
David..... David ..... why are you crying .... wanna tissue?..... wanna taxi?
38 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:23:59
39 Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:18:49
40 Posted 06/11/2011 at 22:22:35
For fuck's sake, picture yourself in his position. The manager hasn't given you a game all season, each time you play you're not in your right position...
What would you do?
You'd have it out with the manager. You'd show some passion. If you were a winner, you'd tell him straight, give me a chance in the middle.
41 Posted 06/11/2011 at 22:33:10
42 Posted 06/11/2011 at 22:53:09
43 Posted 06/11/2011 at 23:49:37
The talk is coming from the media I have read a few articles in the past month of Moyes being offered a new deal in January and Richard Dodd (I know I know) has suggested there is a new contract in the pipeline.
Do you think that the manager has earned a new contract with his performances since he signed the old one in 2008?
What progress have Everton made since the cup final defeat of that season?
If the best finish he can acheive is now 7th or 8th why should he get an lucrative deal with no doubt a wage increase for taking the team backwards?
44 Posted 07/11/2011 at 00:49:24
The serious decline on the field can be traced back to a Sunday in March 2008 when we were due to play Fulham away and we were four points ahead of Liverpool in fourth place.
Instead of bigging up the team Moyes appeared in the newspapers that morning saying a new contract had been offered but he was not going to sign it at that time.
(my own view is he thought Strachan was on his way out at Celtic and was looking at that job....but Rangers imploded and Celtic ended up as champs, meaning Satrachan was kept on)
There then folowed a fiasco for the next eight months of prevarication until he signed,
By that time we had blown the CL place at the end of one season and were platying our now traditional catch up in the next.
I can understand the board not being able to sack him, or even wanting to.
But rewarding him with another contract for this mediocrity just isn't on.
45 Posted 07/11/2011 at 02:40:34
Our only hope is that mega rich sugar daddy who's never been to a football match yet who'll come in, scratch his head, and say 'what the fuck is this shit we're playing?' and only then will we sack Moyes. My only wish for Christmas is to get rid of those two deluded gentlemen.
46 Posted 07/11/2011 at 09:18:02
47 Posted 07/11/2011 at 09:20:46
48 Posted 07/11/2011 at 09:46:26
Simply put, they prop each other up and are a very effective foil for one and other.
Nobody expects Moyes to deliver top six ( let alone top 4). However, what's the excuse for such outward apathy and lack of fire ? that's my gripe. Those of us that are angry are so because it's clear that there are no bollockings being handed out here ? no drive to do better ? no consequences for not doing better!
As for Moyes performing miracles in the second part of a season, let's remember that the mess Moyes gets through is ALWAYS the mess he himself has created in the first instance. Poor pre-seasons lead to poor openings lead to inhibited confidence, leads to few points come December. It's groundhog day!
If Moyes is to go (and to me it's not likely for the reasons stated above) it will be on the grounds of complacency around repeated mistakes and not the points accrued this season.
49 Posted 07/11/2011 at 11:38:02
The obscene amounts of money being paid to even the most average (or less than average), footballer are killing the game for me.
50 Posted 07/11/2011 at 11:46:35
51 Posted 07/11/2011 at 12:15:35
Kenwright has the support of the majority though, the support demonstrated for him at the Aston Villa game was nauseating. You reap what you sow and this is where we are at, I've gone past worrying as to where this will all end, if you replace Moyes you still have Kenwright and until he is moved on Everton will continue to slowly fade away.
52 Posted 07/11/2011 at 13:12:08
Moyes says that some of our defending against Newcastle was rubbish. Well, David I think some of your tactics are rubbish. A manager is supposed to provide leadership ? I think Moyes is providing very little of that at the moment.
We are not scoring many goals at the moment ? does perhaps the fact that we are playing one striker virtually every match suggest a link to this lack of fire-power? How about being radical and playing two strikers?
Vellios and Strac are unknowns ? but a good manager would use that to our advantage. If we don't know much about them then neither does the opposition. In the 2 months that he has been with us, Strac has hardly been given much game time has he?
Watching the match on Sky at a mate's house, we both correctly predicted when Moyes would bring on an attacking player. I was transfixed by Moyes's pitch side conference with Steve Round and Chris Woods. I think peace treaties have taken less time and required less discussion than a David Moyes substitution.
To those who say 4-5-1 is the best Moyes can do given the squad and lack of money ? I say what a load of rubbish. We have a decent squad ? which is badly managed/coached/ led by Moyes. He is our most frustrating manager since Gordon Lee. How would Moyes have dealt with Duncan McKenzie I wonder? And to the "in Moyes we trust" brigade ? do you really think that clubs like Man United/ Arsenal/Tottenham would want David Moyes as manager? The only way he will end up in charge of them is if he plays Football Manager/FIFA 2011.
At the Wigan game, it was obvious that Cahill needed support, that we needed more attacking options. Moyes took an age to react and, although we won 3-1, it was in spite of the manager's tactics rather than because of them. The question was put that evening on TalkSport: "Did the win vindicate David Moyes starting without a specialist striker?" Well surely those tactics would only have been vindicated if we had won 3-1 without having to make any changes. The fact that we had to change tactics clearly shows that Moyes's tactics were not working.
The same at Newcastle: Coleman is a player that I like but he was not having a good game ? he had been started wide right ? was switched to wide left and then ended up at right back when Hibbert was taken off. So, in the course of the game, he was played in 3 positions!! Surely it would have made more sense to leave Hibbert on ? he was playing well ? and take Coleman off?
And Distin ? who has been one of our best defenders ? didn't start? If you are placing your trust in Moyes to get us out of this situation, then I have sympathy for you. Rather than the solution to our problems, I think David Moyes has become part of the problem.
I copied and pasted these comments from a reply I posted to another article earlier (well if David Moyes offer up the same old tactics then so can I...) Seriously is there anybody who actually believes that he will go on from Everton to a club like Man Utd? Do you really think anyone would trust him with a mega transfer budget given that HE signed Billy for more than Arsenal paid for Arshavin yet he doesn't play him regularly? We are short of money he keeps saying ? then how can we afford to have a £9.5 Million player on the bench?
53 Posted 07/11/2011 at 19:06:46
For me if Moyes is still here next season, the only way to show your disgust is when your renewal form for your season ticket comes; staple a letter to it saying you will not renew unless Moyes has left the Club. That way, you are not only doing what you think is right, the Club will know just why you are not renewing. If a few thousand do that then things will change.
Kenwright might love Moyes but he loves money even more and if he sees a half-empty Goodison, 'Con-Man' Moyes will get the boot.
54 Posted 08/11/2011 at 00:17:43
He won't leave unless he know's he gone as far as he can.
There are some great points on here, the signings of Bily and Johnny were bad business. The selling of Arteta and Beckford were his choices.
I'd love to see Drenthe play up front with Saha. I'd also love to see Moyes leave but I can't see as stated above. BK needs Moyes. Another five year contract at £50k a week to keep us in the division??? Yeah I reckon...
55 Posted 08/11/2011 at 12:44:47
Those who are still living on the 04-05 season as a benchmark should think again: have we been anywhere near it since all the others improved? I was a fan of DM when the club was improving every year but the stagnation of the last 2-3 seasons has brought home to me the truth: Moyes is out of his depth now and if we believe in our motto then it's time we got a man at the helm who believes in it too.
56 Posted 08/11/2011 at 13:05:53
"Moyes has raised expectations with his top 5 finishes nonsense". "That is the least he should be doing."
Are you for real? So you expect Moyes to have Everton finishing above sides like Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, and Liverpool? Have you seen how much money they spend on players and on wages? Have you seen how much money we spend on players and wages?
57 Posted 08/11/2011 at 12:59:32
How about stapling a letter to your renewal form saying that you will not put any more money into the club until the board follows suit?
2 years without a signing, that is just fecking scandalous
58 Posted 10/11/2011 at 04:32:40
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