I know Yakubu starts strong at first on transfer and I know the lad tends to loose interest and fitness, but that's an issue for a manager and coaching staff to control.
He's put four away this weekend. His last performance against Liverpool at Goodison Park was surely something to build on. We desperately need staff who can keep our players motivated, inspired and allow them to play to their strengths (never mind in their position).
David Moyes seems to have a knack for dulling an attacker's edge and seems to be on a similar path with Drenthe... wanting him to build on his defensive game. He'll sap the attack out of him too or give him the cold shoulder should he not tow the line.
Hopefully it's the fast tract for Dunc's coaching badges as we need some offensive input to at least balance the Moyes/Round/Stubbs 'back 11' mentality.
Here's to putting a few past Stoke tomorrow.
Paul Columb, Posted 04/12/2011 at 00:44:06
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1 Posted 03/12/2011 at 15:53:42
2 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:03:24
3 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:23:14
It is true though Brian.
He was lazy as fuck and didn't deserve to play for us. No point crying about it now.
4 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:20:54
50%, 44%, then 49%
Middlesbrough 34% then 36%
Everton 54%, 29%, 17% and 7%
Blackburn 89% till today.
I know he was injured when playing for us but for other teams he has been pretty consistent.
5 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:36:41
6 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:37:40
7 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:42:50
8 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:49:23
9 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:54:27
The thing about the Yak is, he always gets the goals!
10 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:59:07
11 Posted 03/12/2011 at 16:42:59
Many of us were 'crying about it' AT THE TIME (nb: and some of us don't feel we have to wait to 'have a little dig' at Mr Demotivator).
Fact: Latchford was considered by many to be 'lazy as fuck', he also did less running than Yak and was fatter.
But...he knew where the goal was (nb: a forward's job is scoring not tracking back).
Yes Yakubu seems to do very little when not scoring, but with decent service, he will ALWAYS get goals.
Question is, do you want an athlete-shaped footballer who runs up and down all day, but can't trap a ball and couldn't score in the gravvy with a bottle of rohypnol.
Or do you want goals.
Moyes (and apparently you) seem more than happy with the former.
12 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:10:46
The idea of Latch tracking back is quite an amusing thought!
13 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:08:10
I was a Yak fan and personally would have kept him but theres more to it than just number of goals. He's scored a fair few and it's annoying but Moyes asked him to work harder and he didn't want to. For me, thats's unforgivable.
It's easy to say that you want goals and you're not bothered about the effort but, as blackburn have found, it's all very well him scoring but it's no use if the opposition score more - and if you don't defend from the front they more than likely will.
14 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:20:11
If Moyes could get a packhorse to understand the offside rule he would put a blue shirt on it.
Even Messi in our team wouldn't score more than 5 a season.
15 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:16:15
He has now hit 10 goals for Blackburn and I am not surprised that he has found the net again as he has been given a fair chance by Steve Kean. Moyes on the other hand has borne a grudge towards Yakubu; he chose to loan out Yakubu to Leicester when he was the only striker looking like he could score. His Liverpool and Stoke games must be pointed out as good games for him.
My main point is that Moyes has complained that we have no other strikers than Saha... well, it is his own doing and he has embarrassed himself by giving Yakubu away almost for free ? and then he complains about it afterwards... how stupid can you be? I get why he sold Beckford as that was good money, but there was no reason at all for selling/giving away Yakubu almost for free, and he has shot himself in the foot, as we have lost £10 million on him.
It is not just the money but the extreme gamble to only have one senior experienced striker in this league, and it is a gamble he has lost big time.
This on its own is a reason to ask if Moyes should be manager at Everton; he has put the club in a mess by doing this, and I just cannot forgive that.
A manager has to look out for the best interest of his club; this is where Moyes has failed us the most. I would have kept Arteta if I had the choice, even if he was unhappy, but the sale of Yakubu was not logical in any way as he had sold Vaughan and Beckford already.
Time is right for Moyes to go; the fans must see that and start protesting against him. We are a weak shadow of what we were a couple of years ago, and Moyes has played his cards all wrong the last couple of years.
16 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:21:46
It'll be "Yeah, I'm not sayin' he doesn't try but..."
Micky Walsh worked his nuts off running for us.
He did his running AND Latchford's but..couldn't score.
Seems some managers and supporters have forgotten what the POINT of the game is.
17 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:33:24
This Yakubu fella who shot his bolt the season he got injured and lost half a yard of pace had his most prolific season under Moyes...
Don't talk shite boys.
18 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:24:06
Sometimes players need a change to get the best out of them. I agree he can get goals with the right service but I'll stand by my 'no point in crying about it now'.
19 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:40:44
Has anyone got Paul Lambert's number?
20 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:38:06
Yakubu seems to have enough pace to score 4 today.
Perhaps it was the tactics under Moyes?
Moyes's contract expires at the end of next season. That day should be a National Holiday for every Evertonian.
21 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:38:42
Can you explain EXACTLY what that means?
Before you answer, consider this.
This 'shot his bolt' striker scored 4 today.
You say he lost half a yard of pace after he got injured?
The BASTARD!! What a NERVE!!
Anyway, fuck Pace.
Pace is not everything and many great strikers have had less pace than Yakubu.
As for your concern over Ian's 'no striker has ever thrived under Moyes'.
Well, every striker may not have been total shite under Moyes, but...thrived?
Imo it's you who's talking shite (and shite unsupported by anything even approaching a fact).
22 Posted 03/12/2011 at 17:44:57
That's right isn't it? They won 5-1? What's that? They *lost* 5-1? Jeez, maybe 2-1 wasn't so bad.
Eugene, I haven't forgotten the point of the game at all, the point I was making is that somebody just standing round waiting to put the ball in the net is fine but it doesn't always work well for the team.
The Bob Latchford example is an interesting one, he had a great record individually but how many medals did he win with us? Most of you who are complaining are the same people who think we should be further up the table than we are but scoring more doesn't guarantee that if the balance is wrong.
I'm all for great goalscorers believe me, but sometimes just being able to put the ball in the net isn't enough.
23 Posted 03/12/2011 at 18:01:42
The same way Moyes used to.
Let's face it, you can tell from his body language in interviews and the words he comes out with that he isn't as confident and positive as he used to be. Things like that trickle down to the players, and then down to the fans.
24 Posted 03/12/2011 at 18:05:29
25 Posted 03/12/2011 at 18:08:36
Now you could blame Moyes for this... but if you look at his record with every club he has been at he scored a shed-full and then does fuck all.
I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that he doesn't reach 12 goals this season
26 Posted 03/12/2011 at 19:14:57
He got his fitness back, and in a few games (especially the derby) looked a handful. His style / attitude (not tracking back) no longer suited the team / manager's style.
I know for fact, that he never asked or wanted to leave and he was always willing to play. I always said a fit Yakubu was an asset, and indeed maybe an asset we had to sell (cheaply) to save on the wage bill, as goalscorers do not come cheap, especially proven ones!
27 Posted 03/12/2011 at 19:23:56
Give me a modern day Latchford any day of the week. We'll be lucky to score thirty goals in total.
28 Posted 03/12/2011 at 19:19:09
If you look at the facts, Yak does have a track record of starting well and then fading away when he joins a new club.
I remember reading a while ago that whilst at M'Boro he failed to score after February, for two seasons running. A very 'streaky' striker indeed.
In my opinion, we should have kept him and blown a bit of sunshine up his (fat) arse to try to get him motivated. But if he had his heart set on leaving and Moyes felt he wasn't putting in the same effort as the rest of the players, then I understand why he was sold.
Still, I think we let him go far too cheaply. I hope he does well at Blackburn but I've got a feeling he will score more goals this season than he will next season. It seems that is just the way it goes with the Yak.
I don't agree with Eugene (hardly ever do) that we can just have a striker stood there waiting to be fed. I think the Yak, at his best for us, did put in a reasonable shift. And these days,with many more 'ball-playing' defenders i think you need a striker that puts in the effort to defend from the front.
Yak was dropped after his first couple of games for us for not putting in the required effort. Once he had adjusted to what Moyes wanted from him, he went on to bag more than 20 goals that season, so it's not as though goals and effort are mutually exclusive.
Like I said, I wouldn't be TOO harsh on Moyes because I do see his reasons for letting Yak go but in my humble opinion Davy got this one wrong.
Hindsight. A wonderful thing.
29 Posted 03/12/2011 at 20:09:54
I am rather concerned that our manager is always commenting/putting down our strikers yet he chose to not only not play Yak, but sell him for peanuts. Now how many Goals will Vic & Saha get this season?? Next time, don't have digs at fellow Evertonians.
30 Posted 03/12/2011 at 21:04:41
The 4 against QPR, the diving header against West Ham in the cup semi, the left-footed volley against Coventry. How soon they forget. The guy was lethal around the box. Great at losing a marker and dynamite with his head. That's why he walked on water.
31 Posted 03/12/2011 at 21:13:32
Each to their own. I just wonder how long this will go on. Will Moyes be justified in selling him if he now goes 10 games without a goal?
I'd have loved to have kept him if he was going to score for us like he is for Blackburn... but it wasn't happening, was it?
32 Posted 03/12/2011 at 21:36:43
I was happy to see him go because he did nothing for Everton last season.
I was also happy we got his £40k a week wages off the wage bill, we got £1 million for him plus £1 million from Leicester in the loan fee.
£40k a week saved for two seasons is £4million plus the £2 million.
The mistake made was not selling him when West Ham came in for him last summer. He didn't want to play for Everton. He lost interest, get over it.
33 Posted 03/12/2011 at 22:00:20
David Moyes cannot abide luxury players ? as Drenthe will find out. It's just one of the reasons why he will never get a better job than the one he is lucky enough to have and why we will never win a trophy while he is here.
Dour, unimaginative and devoid of any ambition other than Premier League survival and the continuation of his ludicrous contract.
34 Posted 03/12/2011 at 22:37:40
I think I have worked out the phrase to describe David Moyes... not good enough for Everton.
35 Posted 03/12/2011 at 22:40:21
36 Posted 03/12/2011 at 22:32:44
He never really seemed a Moyes type player to me and I was pleasantly surprised he went for him. His work ethic and fitness levels were questioned early in his Everton career but once he hit a rich vein of goalscoring form I think Moyes just had to bite his lip. As long as a forward is scoring regularly, who gives a toss if he runs around like a lunatic chasing lost causes?
If he's not scoring then things are obviously different. Unfortunately, the yaks goals had begun to dry up well before his injury. This could of been due to lack of service, loss of form, negative tactics or the fact the player had his head turned by talk of a move to Spurs. Doesn't really matter. He was a fading force for Everton before he got fucked.
After the injury he never seemed to regain any of his old sharpness and appeared to be fighting a losing battle with the blubber. I think Moyes just lost patience with him. I can understand that. The guy had got so big that every time he ran his arse applauded him. Not many managers would have persevered with him. Not many managers wanted to shell out decent money for him either. At £1.5m he was worth a punt by Blackburn. At £6m, or whatever we originally wanted for him, it would've been a case of 'on your bike' (Everton, not Yakubu).
37 Posted 03/12/2011 at 23:22:29
Well, he bought one, for about £11.5 million... then sold him for £2 an a packet of wine gums... and now he's scored 9 already for Blackburn.
Beckford also got into double figures last season and Moyes sold him as well.
Now apparently in January, Uncle Bill Bullshit is telling us there will be money available for a new striker.
What will Moyes do...??? Bid £5million for the Blackburn striker? Or will they want more??
38 Posted 03/12/2011 at 23:27:26
39 Posted 03/12/2011 at 23:42:50
Christ, I seem to be having a bad time at the moment with people completely misunderstanding my posts. Perhaps I'd better retire.
40 Posted 04/12/2011 at 00:03:25
We´ll probably end up buying Jason Roberts off Blackburn in january. Just the Moyes type of striker. Bullies and wrestles, but never scores.
41 Posted 04/12/2011 at 01:39:09
Ryan Holroyd is right, he'll dissapear soon enough, just like at us, Portsmouth and Boro.
42 Posted 04/12/2011 at 02:41:10
Thomas crosses to Latchford goal!!! Hardly tap-ins when you get on the end of pin-point crosses.
43 Posted 04/12/2011 at 02:59:27
How come we have not had a look at the Stracq so far this season? He looks big and strong but sitting on the bench getting match practice is typical of DM. Coleman has been out of sorts so far yet Magaye has not figured.
I am pleased that Bily is getting a run; hopefully he will figure today and score a couple of tap ins or a screamer. I'm sure Drenthe will start up ahead of him so maybe Osman will get a rest on the bench. I doubt it as Ossie is a defender first, forward second.
44 Posted 04/12/2011 at 11:25:59
So it's the Yak's fault Blackburn can't defend?!? Classic that.
45 Posted 04/12/2011 at 11:29:58
46 Posted 04/12/2011 at 11:09:08
It's a shame my point got misread by people who either thought I was somehow being critical of Bob or had lost my memory.
47 Posted 04/12/2011 at 12:21:13
Let's hope for Saha and Vellios to start and Cahill given a break on the bench. (Stoke played midweek and are shite away so surely we can start with two recongnised strikers!).
Saha can play deeper and he's better and holding up the ball and playing people in than Cahill (who is off form anyway), and it would be good to see what they can produce together.
Let's get the 3 points and move one...
I for one was a big Yak fan and the person above who said the Yak would not get more than 12 goals this seasons needs to take his head out of his arse ? he's already scored 10 FFS!! Good luck to the Yak and thanks for the memories (just please don't score against us!)
48 Posted 04/12/2011 at 13:56:25
Now the Yak has gone to pastures new and is blooming. Nine goals already in the league. It is so disappointing considering that we are crying out for a striker of proven quality and we have let one go for next to nothing.
I would not mind as much if we had replaced the Yak, but who have we brought in? Big Denis who must be a real mediocrity as he has barely featured this season. I think Moyes has shot himself and us the fans in the foot!
49 Posted 04/12/2011 at 14:34:07
The giving away of Yakubu is the worst piece of shit I have ever come across. There is no defending Moyes here, he has fucked up, simple as that. Now we rely on Saha and Cahill who are 32 plus and looking older as each game passes.
Truly embarrased by Moyes on this deal.
50 Posted 04/12/2011 at 18:15:25
51 Posted 04/12/2011 at 18:21:45
Bruce has been forced out of Sunderland for almost the same reasons as we complain about DM: negative tactics, selling the best forwards (Gyan, Bent), putting square pegs into round holes etc. The same people were probably supporting Walter until his position was untenable, after the Boro game.
Yakubu is scoring goals again because he has support!!! Not rocket science is it. A striker without pace up on his own is not the way to win games. Midfielders who are defenders is not the way to create chances and defenders who cannot defend means conceding goals. E = mc²
52 Posted 04/12/2011 at 19:29:41
53 Posted 04/12/2011 at 22:30:48
Problem is, having forwards running around like headless chickens, tracking back and chasing lost causes isn't working either. It's just that this style sits a lot more comfortably with our drab boring dull as fuck manager.
Let's face it... even if we had kept the Yak, he'd only have a couple of goals to his name and people would be saying we should have got rid.
News flash: It's not the players that are the problem... it is the man who is coaching them and sending them out with shit negative defensive minded tactics.
I'm sick of it, and I'm sure the players must be too.
54 Posted 05/12/2011 at 00:35:39
So, Yak hangs around the off-side line the entire game, marshalls what little energy he has, and does what he (indisputedly) was born to do; put the ball in the goal.
That's the best you can hope for with him. How long would Yak have lasted with SAF, Wenger, etc? Not as long as Moyes had to suffer him due to lack of funds.
Yak had everything to be a great. From the shoulders down. Nothing to do with Moyes.
55 Posted 05/12/2011 at 01:56:40
"The Yak has found his perfect situation. A team fighting relegation with a manager who puts no demands on Yak"
So Steve Kean, who is fighting for his job, just allows his players to go out and do whatever they want? Moyes on the other hand, has a wonderful game plan in which every player knows what he has to do... hoof the ball away as soon as they get it and don't attempt to shoot towards the opposition goal. :(
56 Posted 05/12/2011 at 02:42:37
If I wasn't so understanding, I might say that "SAF, Wenger, etc." might have already known about The Yak's deficiencies prior to forking out circa £12 million for his services.
57 Posted 05/12/2011 at 07:37:14
1. He negelected to say that we did have one in Yak - but he sold him.
2. If he thought that wouldn't it have been better to have NOT gone public - I would have thought that his comments would not exactly boost the confidence of our strikers.
Moyes OUT - er no but how about Moyes to show a bit more adventure in his tactics, not to be so predictable and not to be so critical in public of his players.His man management is crap - especially of the strikers - other players can seemingly get away with gaffs and still keep their place in the team.
And as regards Yak - perhaps playing for a manager who believes in him may be why he is doing well at the moment.
58 Posted 05/12/2011 at 09:32:29
59 Posted 05/12/2011 at 10:20:00
60 Posted 05/12/2011 at 12:14:35
He's a fucking predator lazy maybe, but he's a goal hanger, the fox in the box. Give him a chance around teh box and he scores, look at blackburn.
Pathetic that our genius manager couldn't play him to his strengths.
61 Posted 05/12/2011 at 12:17:52
Moyes obviously just wanted both out no matter what.
62 Posted 05/12/2011 at 13:26:00
I remember Yak actually starting rubbish for us - he scored on debut then looked rubbish because he wasn't match fit. Because of his size he needs games, but with games he guarantees goals.
People criticizing him for being lazy and then saying this is why Moyes sold him make me laugh. He was always lazy, even when scoring shit loads of goals for us. I understand if people say, moyes was unsure because of his injury if he would get match fit, but lazy - he's been lazy for 10 years !
63 Posted 05/12/2011 at 13:31:34
If you believe we should go against Man City in that manner, then up to you but no way it justifies it to me. Also, Man City are not Barcelona or Brazil and we lost 2-0 not 2-1
64 Posted 05/12/2011 at 14:26:32
As regards his scoring ratio in his last year or so at Everton - well how many has Tim Cahill scored in the last year ? Yet Moyes has persisted with him.
65 Posted 05/12/2011 at 14:40:34
Happy Birthday for tomorrow, Yak.
66 Posted 05/12/2011 at 15:18:38
Oh sorry did Moyes have a little fall out with him? Oh well, Moyes comes first then, we can't upset Moyes. Afterall, Moyes is the messiah and he knows best... (Not!) Obviously, the 2 crocks, a 19 year old Greek and Denis will score more goals than Yak to keep us up will they Moyes?! Sign Yakubu for £11M and sell him for £1M? And Moyes says he's had no money to spend! Because he's sold him for £1 million ? that's why!
67 Posted 05/12/2011 at 15:47:04
Yes, that DOES sound mad, but in football, 'boss' today doesn't mean what boss used to mean. The reality is, today you fall out with a player and you have £60 grand a week sitting on the bench with a sour puss, or playing for the reserves. Whatever Moyes thought of Yakubu's 'attitude' etc, he should have worked it out, placated him and had him playing/performing.
Fat, lazy, doesn't give a fuck etc? Maybe but he was the only player we had who knew where the net was and after the Liverpool game, should have been played. Instead he was dropped and sold. Anyone who thinks this was good business, in my opinion, knows fuck-all about fuck all.
68 Posted 05/12/2011 at 16:14:08
69 Posted 05/12/2011 at 15:54:12
My abiding memory of the last World Cup is The Yak smiling and waving as he left the pitch, he'd missed one of the worst sitters in the histoy of the tournament ? breaking Nigerian hearts ? but it clearly didn't hurt enough.
The Yak's seven goals against Wigan, Arsenal and Swansea prove that on his day he is a top marksman... but it's those sitters he missed in the other games that have made victories so elusive for Blackburn.
Four goals on Saturday shouldn't surprise us really, he has always been capable, but it's the all too frequent no shows, the missed chances and the shrug of his shoulders when he misses that will cost his manager his job and Blackburn their Premier League status.
I`ll answer your question: To sell a player, you need a buyer... and nobody bid for the "two crocks".
I may be wrong but I believe Jagielka is the only person Everton have received a concrete bid for who's actually still here. They're all for sale ? regardless of what Moyes says.
Blackburn were the only people prepared to pay £1.5M for Yakubu ? even Leicester turned their noses up and they'd had a first hand look at him.
No doubt the Yak will score more, but it's the number of times Blackburn will carry him that will cost them.
Feed the Yak and ? provided he feels in the mood ? he will score.
70 Posted 05/12/2011 at 16:50:27
United are different now....witness hoe Ferguson made his peace with Rooney last year because he couldn't afford to let him go.
71 Posted 05/12/2011 at 17:00:33
It's ok if you know you can buy someone to replace them, but the board is giving him diddly so man up, give him a hug, get pissed together and get on with the job. Bygones....
72 Posted 05/12/2011 at 16:41:54
You enlighten us with "If your face doesn't fit there, you're gone and it doesn't matter who you are".
And...what's your point?
Firstly, it's not faces that don't fit, it's PEOPLE and there's always a reason why.
My (fairly clear) point was, if you're in OUR position (ie: fucking skint), a big part of the manager's job must be to make sure nobody feels "my face doesn't fit" (nb: particularly anyone capable of finding the back of a net).
You REALLY don't see the difference?
Fine - I'll explain (never let it be said..etc)
When those, who's faces 'didn't fit' at Utd, were given the heave-ho, there WASN'T a huge void left.
Because Sir Alex red grid either they had a replacement lined up, or (nb: BECAUSE HE HAD THE MONEY!) he immediately bought one.
Same situation at Everton?
No replacement lined up, no money to buy a replacement, result = home defeats and no goals against shit-house teams like Stoke.
See the difference?
Moyes to me sounds more and more like a big, soft, whining tart and having 'fall-outs' with players, then getting rid of them, makes him look like one.
73 Posted 05/12/2011 at 17:48:46
Moyes does not.
74 Posted 05/12/2011 at 19:30:19
75 Posted 05/12/2011 at 19:43:30
Moyes would have left along time ago if he didnt put the club first.
76 Posted 05/12/2011 at 20:28:44
77 Posted 05/12/2011 at 20:35:47
78 Posted 05/12/2011 at 20:49:03
They got a fortune for Beckham, who was disrupting the whole team with the media circus that comes with him. They also had a decent player lined up to replace him.
Van Nistelrooy was an ageing player who was replaceable and Stam failed a drug test within a year of leaving.
Only Stam leaving affected thier side and Ferguson has admitted it was a mistake.
Every single player you mention was sold for a good fee.
Moyes wouldn't have signed his new deal and took the money if he put the club first!
79 Posted 05/12/2011 at 20:57:03
That's a load of shite and you know it.
Yak's well on his way to 20, but because he didn't score 40 or has a few bad games it's his fault if they go down?
Believe me, if they stay up, a large part of that will be because of Yak's goals.
80 Posted 05/12/2011 at 20:59:56
Also there was no way Fergie knew how good Ronaldo was going to be at the time of selling Beckham. I dont even think they had a replacement lined up at that stage but either way Ronaldo was a bit of a joke in his first couple of seasons.
You say "Van Nistelrooy was an ageing player who was replaceable" Arteta and Yakubu were ageing players, and it still early days, who knows maybe Rodwell or Barkley can step up and replace him in the near future. It took time before Ronaldo contributed the goals Nistleroy could. Either way Arteta wanted out to plat CL football.
"Only Stam leaving affected thier side and Ferguson has admitted it was a mistake."
At least you now admit he makes mistakes, maybe Moyes will admit he made a mistake at the end of this season. I'm sure we have all made mistakes but like with Beckham maybe Yakubu was disrupting the team, he certainly wasnt playing to the standards he was capable of and Moyes made the decision to get shut Just like Fergie with Beckham and Stam.
"Every single player you mention was sold for a good fee." It's much easier to sell your players for a good fee when a player plays for Man Utd being advertised and hyped by the Champions League and media constantly.
81 Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:22:07
True and once it starts to affect the rest of his side you can guarantee Rooney will be shipped out.
"there was no way Fergie knew how good Ronaldo was going to be at the time of selling Beckham."
He paid £12m for him aged 18, I think he may have had an idea?
"Arteta and Yakubu were ageing players, and it still early days, who knows maybe Rodwell or Barkley can step up and replace him in the near future."
Neither Rodwell or Barkley play up front. Moyes feud with the Yak has left us woefully short up front, do you agree? Also maybe one of those two can replace Arteta but it's a big ask. Do you believe either have done so at this point? Bear in mind the mishandling of the Pienaar situation has also left us short creatively.
"Every single player you mention was sold for a good fee." It's much easier to sell your players for a good fee when a player plays for Man Utd being advertised and hyped by the Champions League and media constantly."
It's easier again if you don't ruin their reputation for 18 months before you get rid.
Nowhere did I ever say Ferguson doesn't make mistakes, everybody does. What I said was Ferguson always acts in the best interest of his club, Moyes does not. You haven't even tried to counter that.
82 Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:49:47
Had Fergie even signed Ronaldo at the time of selling Beckham? I might be wrong but i don't even think Ronaldo was in his sights at that stage. Also Fergie has spent tens of millions on a few teenagers like Anderson and Nani did Fergie think they were going to be great like Ronaldo because it hasn't quite turned out that way.
"Moyes feud with the Yak has left us woefully short up front, do you agree?"
Not really if you consider the contribution Yakubu was making. Lets no forget he always makes a good start at a new club either.
"Also maybe one of those two can replace Arteta but it's a big ask. Do you believe either have done so at this point? " Considering Arteta's performances it wasn't such a big ask. Neither have at this point but i believe Barkley has showed enough to suggest over the coming seasons he can fill Arteta shoes and Rodwell is good enough to fill the gap for the time being. He has also took some big steps recently such as gaining a couple of England caps which perhaps would not have happened if Arteta was still at the club.
"It's easier again if you don't ruin their reputation for 18 months before you get rid."
What about the reputations who have grown under Moyes like Pienaar, Baines, Lescott Jaggs etc. What about the reputations Fergie has ruined like Forlan, Kleberson Veron etc?
Finally of course Moyes has tried to act in the best interests of the club in the same way Fergie has, but both have made mistakes which sometimes prevents that, but there is no way they have knowingly not acted in the best interests of the club. Moyes felt he was making the right decision selling under-performing ageing players like Arteta and Yakubu, with hindsight, maybe he didn't. But I don't believe Yakubu's performances would have improved. I think Arteta was showing signs of improvement and glimpses of his old self but he wanted out so there is no point in keeping a player that does not want to be there.
83 Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:18:26
84 Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:05:52
I refuse to accept that because X players cost X amount was the main factor in what, even to this slightly impartial viewer, was an exciting end-to-end spectacle. What made it such a good game and compelling viewing was the positive attitude of both teams and probably influenced by their managers. That had little to do with how much this or that player cost.
Compare that approach with Deadly Dave's defensive negativity and it becomes obvious of the depths to which we have sunk. Should Moyes and his accolytes study a recording of the game at Fulham, they might, just might, get an inkling of what is expected by the people that pay their exorbitant wages.
85 Posted 06/12/2011 at 01:00:18
86 Posted 06/12/2011 at 01:10:08
87 Posted 06/12/2011 at 01:08:16
As Pulis said, "it was a Stoke classic". He had no intention of playing football. Everton had intent but no cutting edge no creativity, no goal scoring talent ? all because.... you guessed it ? our creative goalscoring players had to be sold and we went out bought from a car-boot sale.
88 Posted 06/12/2011 at 06:20:47
I did suggest this song a while ago (to the tune of Where's Your Mamma Gone) slightly updated:-
Where's Yakabu gone (where's Yakubu Gone)
Where's Yakabu gone (where's Yakubu Gone)
He's not far away,
He got 4 today
Where's Yakabu gone (where's Yakubu Gone)
89 Posted 06/12/2011 at 09:14:31
Sometime,s slowly slowly, catchy monkey does have a benefit......not often but sometimes it does. it's all well and good extolling the wonderful free flowing footy but at the end of the day Kenny came away with zilch and we obtained maximum points.
90 Posted 06/12/2011 at 10:07:33
91 Posted 06/12/2011 at 10:10:40
92 Posted 06/12/2011 at 10:15:03
93 Posted 06/12/2011 at 10:25:12
However, the fact that he practically gave Yakubu away is the last straw for me. It proves that he is far too stubborn egotistical. He has let his own ego get in the way of what is good for EFC and made one big horror of a balls up as a result of it. In my mind, the Yak is still a very good striker and has proven it this season. It's no fluke that he has scored 9 goals already this season.
In Moyes we trust - Bollocks.
94 Posted 06/12/2011 at 10:16:03
We took the money for the two we had bids for. If we allow the two "crocks" as you call them, to run down their contracts too, they can walk for nothing and we have no-one at all.
You are correct, the Yak did put away a late penalty against the Koreans, but by then they had taken the lead and a draw was no use to Nigeria.
If the Yak scores 20 and Blackburn still go down, then he can't possibly be held responsible. I don't think he will and although Moyes (the banks) took the money for Yakubu, he wasn't alone in his opinion; several Championship teams didn't fancy taking a punt and out of the 20 teams in the Prem, only Blackburn were prepared to pay a miserly £1.5M for him.
Time will tell who was right: Moyes or Kean... but, much as I like The Yak, I expect to see Blackburn back in the Championship in May.
95 Posted 06/12/2011 at 11:00:52
96 Posted 06/12/2011 at 11:18:50
The lad wasn't arsed when he played. he did his baby step run every now and again and didn't give a toss about the games.
He was unfit and awful for over half a season so yes it would have been nice if they could have made it up with eeach other but you have one big ego in the manager and one big ego with Yakubu (the Yobo treatment obviously never helped either) but there seemed to be no way back so you either leave him on the bench or in the reserves paying his hefty wage or you take the first offer someone stumps up.
Hindsight, we should have taken West Ham's first offer but they were just taking the piss. They probably found out his real age and that why teh second offer was lower
97 Posted 06/12/2011 at 11:48:32
I don't dispute this, but feel that for the money Moyes is on, it is his responsibility to make sure his players ARE arsed.
If this means biting his tongue or mollycoddling or 'bigging them up' (whatever that is) then that is what he should do and should have done.
None of us know exactly what did go on, but what is clear is that Moyes wasn't capable of this and let his presbyterian/methodist sense of right and wrong get in the way.
A finely tuned sense of right and wrong is of course a fine attribute to have in most walks of life, but when dealing with overpaid, over-sensitive PL footballers, it (sadly) has to be put to one side.
Results/goals are everything and it appears (to me) Moyes put his own feelings before that of the good of the club.
98 Posted 06/12/2011 at 12:30:05
Oh yes......he was putting the club "first" when he dithered for six or seven months before penning a new contract.
And when he did, it was for £3 million a year.
To put that in context, MON is being paid £2 milion at Sunderland and he has achieved much more in the game both as a player and a manager and has a far higher standing in the managerial hierarchy than Moyes.
Stand up for Moyes if you must, Ian, but please lay off the silly stuff like he puts the club's interests before his own.
99 Posted 06/12/2011 at 12:40:27
He was MOTM against the shite, scored against Stoke, set up Cahill for a goal against Blackpool then never got a look in. Really, what more could he have done?
He was shipped off to Leicester and scored 11 in 20.
I don't think anybody would give it a decent go after the manager had made it clear no matter what you do you wont get a look in.
100 Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:12:21
You say "Results/goals are everything and it appears (to me) Moyes put his own feelings before that of the good of the club."
I think Moyes felt that taking in the transfer fee and ridding the club of Yakubu's wages WERE for the good of the club.
I also think he gambled on Cahill coming up with goals to fill the void. A gamble which is looking more and more ill advised with each passing game.
While we've no proof either way, I also cannot help think there's no smoke without fire when it comes to Moyes falling out with the Yak. Stories at the time suggested the Yak was none too pleased with how Yobo was treated in the summer of 2010. Plus I feel Moyes' "He's 25 but he's a Nigerian 25" (or whatever it was) comment probably didn't endear him to the Yak.
Incidentally, remember the "results/goals are everything" bit the next time style of play is called into question.
101 Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:55:16
"Incidentally, remember the "results/goals are everything" bit the next time style of play is called into question".
Why do we have to wait until we've picked up a few points to discuss it?
At the moment we're playing shit football that doesn't get results.
More valid imo to discuss it now.
102 Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:32:02
Has he been at the club for the last 5 years and we didn't know about it? Moyes did his stint, got us "challenging" for the European places after over a decade of shite, so I can see where he had the leverage for a good pay increase. Add to that Kenwrong wanted him to stay. Are you suggesting that he should have taken a lesser wage to placate the fans?
103 Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:42:32
104 Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:21:49
Is it worth mentioning that Yak is unpopular with all his past clubs largely because of his attitude problems?
Is it also fair to say that players and managers fall out from time to time? And also that Yak is possibly prone to spitting his dummy, looking totally disinterested, and being a bit of a twat (from time to time)?
So are we saying Moyes should've overlooked his attitude (which may be different during training and outside of match day) and made Yak an exception to the rest of the team? i.e. pick him no matter how he conducts himself away from Goodison.
Because clearly no manager would sell their best striker unless there was more to the situation and as 99% of us merely speculate. It's easy to throw mud at Moyes when Yak is doing well at another struggling club.
I remember Fergie binning off Jaap Stam ? Utd's best defender at the time ? over a fallout. Now no-one would question Fergie's authority or that he was wrong to excercise the "no player is more important then the club" rule.
But clearly the difference is Fergie gets funds to replace players. Moyes gets a Billy Bullshit "IOU" note.
105 Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:34:09
"Why do we have to wait until we've picked up a few points to discuss it?"
I never said anyone had to wait until we picked up a few points to discuss it. But then you already know that.
The (fairly clear) point is that if you're saying that "results / goals are everything" (which you did say) then you're effectively saying that style of play is unimportant, and you should be consistent in this view next time style of play is called into question.
But if you want to discuss style of play now, my view is that our football is uninspiring, predictable, inimaginitive and all too easy to defend against.
106 Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:46:28
"And also that Yak is possibly prone to spitting his dummy, looking totally disinterested, and being a bit of a twat (from time to time)?"
The very same could and has been said about Moyes. It takes two to tango and Moyes has history of falling out with players.
As for being unpopular with previous clubs after leaving, that's true for most footballers.
107 Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:52:52
Maybe - just maybe - Yak's form is all linked to his fitness, and if you can manage and keep him trim.
Maybe we didn't try hard enough, or maybe other clubs have better fitness regimes.
However, I don't think yak fits the moyes profile - yak is an out and out striker, he won't contribute a huge amount when he doesn't have the ball. Personally, I think you need two strikers in a team; one who works his socks off, and one goal-poaching fox who doesnt do much but constantly be in the right position. We have a tendency to play only 1 up front, nor like strikers who don't do much other than score goals. A pity.
Whatever the reason - the fact of the matter is that he is scoring, and we need a scorer...
108 Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:55:43
He´s still here and why?
109 Posted 07/12/2011 at 00:07:47
He was playing well just before we loaned him to Leicester (fking stupid decision) and will get goals for B'burn
I'm so bored with out 'style' of play that cheering a few of Yak's goals for us would have been fun
Fact is we don't have an effective replacement so it was ludicrous to let him go
Hate to say it but am slowly going off Moyes
110 Posted 07/12/2011 at 01:03:50
What "decade of shite" was there prior to Moyes's arrival?
We had our downs for sure but I seem to recall us winning the F.A, Cup and playing in the Cup Winners Cup six and a bit years before he came....and the team missing out on Europe through a league position on the last day the season after (Arsenal pipped us on goall difference froim memory).
So we were not only "challenging for Europe" in the decade before he arrived, we actually made Europe by dint of winning sommat.
The problem with the Moyes and the no one else but Moyes brigade is that you have forgotten EFC existed long before he ever came to Goodison and the club will be around for a long time after he eventually goes.
Blind loyalty to the man is one thing, but if you are going to berate everyone who comes on here (as they are in increasing numbers) pointing out Moyes's shortcomings then make sure you have your facts straight.
111 Posted 07/12/2011 at 08:54:44
"I never said anyone had to wait until we picked up a few points to discuss it. But then you already know that".
Yes you did, you said it...'effectively'
(I'm employing your use of effectively)
See: "..then you're effectively saying that style of play is unimportant".
112 Posted 07/12/2011 at 12:24:19
Compared with 15th (Joined in March) 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th.
Not a great statistic but a hell of a lot better than the 10 years before (obviously excluding the Cup win).
So the point I made, no matter how you argue it, was that he had us challenging for Europe since he came.
One final point: I am not a "no-one else but Moyes" person at all, but I do argue against points that are not correct about him. The same with players, I will argue a point if I think it is incorrect. (I may be wrong, I have been many times and will continue to be so too, but I will still argue my point.)
113 Posted 07/12/2011 at 13:19:13
So to you, Eugene, that "effectively" means we "have to wait until we've picked up a few points to discuss it"?
That's an admirable, but not very effective, attempt to distract from my original point. Which has already been explained to you.
114 Posted 07/12/2011 at 16:08:00
Goose, gander, etc.
115 Posted 07/12/2011 at 00:07:47
He was playing well just before we loaned him to Leicester (fucking stupid decision) and will get goals for Blackburn.
I'm so bored with our 'style' of play that cheering a few of Yak's goals for us would have been fun.
Fact is we don't have an effective replacement so it was ludicrous to let him go.
Hate to say it but am slowly going off Moyes.
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