Season 2011-12
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On every post that I have criticised David Moyes, I have always had some doubt at the back of my mind. He keeps us safe, things could be worse, let him hang on till a new owner comes in. Now I have no fear in saying: David Moyes is no longer fit to be manager of Everton. He drags us down with every cretinous utterance and his defeatist demeanour.

This is why I think he must go:

  • He treats Wigan as though they are Man City, in fact his default start position is, "Let's see what we can nick from this game"...
  • He is tactically inept. Against Stoke, we rained in crosses to a striker who had not a hope in hell of winning them.
  • He accepts every piece of shit thrown to him by Kenwright and one can only assume it is because of his huge contract.
  • His use of substitutes over the years has been lamentable.
  • His handling of "difficult" players has shown him to be a demanding sergeant major.
  • His utter inability to learn from mistakes is laughable.
  • He has lost the spark which was his biggest asset.
Most importantly, he should go for his own sake. Every pathetic start to the season, every woeful performance against really, really poor teams diminishes his reputation and poisons his Everton legacy.

Show some integrity, Moyes ? save yourself and GO!

Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 05/12/2011 at 18:49:16

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Gareth Morgan
1   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:01:08

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Love a knee jerk reaction me. Same old bollocks being spouted every time we lose a game. Be careful what you wish for.
Stephen Kenny
2   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:09:05

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He has no legacy Andy. He steadied the ship.

He took over when we were skint and usually finished 17th. We are skint now and by most estimations we will finish 10th.

7 places and no trophies over the course of a decade is not as great as his supporters would have you believe.

I wish I could look forward to going the match, it's an absolute chore at the minute. Usually he starts with the negativity a few days before the game, then brings whoever is playing well down a peg or two, then we go out and show the opposition 10x more respect than they deserve, then if we win we were lucky and if we get beat it because we've got no money.

He's gone from having strength of character and motivation in spades to a self indulgent whinger who the players no longer play for!
Stephen Kenny
3   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:18:36

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"Same old bollocks being spouted every time we lose a game. Be careful what you wish for."

Never a truer word err.....Typed.
Ste Traverse
4   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:33:27

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Moyes is a one-trick pony. Proven yesterday when playing one striker wasn't working and he made much needed changes which left us with....one striker still on the pitch!
David Hallwood
5   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:29:31

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I agree with some of Andy's comments, in that when Kenwright refused to back him and give him the funds for N'Zogbia, and obviously he was promised funds otherwise he wouldn't have had him as target 1, Moyes should have walked.

I might be reading too much into it but Moyes seems to giving coded messages to the board-the makeup remark, and talking about relegation. it'll be interesting if he doesn't get any money next month.
Mike Elbey
6   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:27:50

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How I love the 'be careful what you wish for' line. What I wish for is an upbeat manager who wants to see his team attack and score goals, who is willing to have his team commit men forward before the last 10 minutes of a game. A manager who will drop players when they play consistently shit instead of just continuing to pick them because they played well in the distant past.

I want a manager who does not drag 10 outfield players back for every corner even if it's the last minute and we are losing. I want a manager who knows how to make substitutions before the 70th minute. Finally I want a manager who may just have realised that by selling all his strikers and attacking midfielders we might just struggle to score and therefore may have thought of sacrificing someone else if indeed he needed to sell.

What do you wish for Gareth ? A manager who produces stale, boring football is my guess if you are happy with what Moyes serves up at present....
Karl Meighan
7   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:25:35

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I doubt we will ever win 3 on the bounce with him in charge again, good managers find a way to lift there players have good tactics and ideas Moyes has gone stale and does nothing but moan about having no money to spend on players but didn't Felliani and Billy cost big money?

A wise manager who was good in the transfer market would have brought in 4 of better quality for the outlay of those 2. And were is the the "I've brought in the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and Lescott for buttons and I will find them again only better attitude"? He's out of ideas and feeling sorry for himself... the negative twat.

Winless at any of the top clubs under Moyes and 4 goals or more 5 times in 10 years under his management. This is the worst side we've had in years with at least 5 players in the first team who don't even have the basics of a good first touch and are able to pass a ball ten yards and move into space and make themselves available.
Sean Patton
8   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:38:44

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Chris Hughton
Bernd Schuster
Mark Hughes
Michael Laudrup


Any one of those four is what I wish for Gareth
Kev Lucas
9   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:44:35

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Chris Hughton?? Mark Hughes??
Posts on here get crazier and crazier.....
Robbie Muldoon
10   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:46:47

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Duncan Ferguson is what I wish for.
Robbie Muldoon
11   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:53:49

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And the problem goes far beyond match days now. The training and coaching looks as though it is all wrong now. It's gone stale now; time for a refreshing change of some sort.
Stephen Kenny
12   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:58:28

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Were at the point where almost anybody would make a positive difference.

I'd go for Hiddink.
Gareth Morgan
13   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:45:35

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Tell you what lads why does't Moyes just tell the players before the game to go out and zip the ball around like City or Barcelona. I'm sure the opposition wouldn't rip the living shit out of us. And shame on him for not splashing all that cash in the transfer windows.
Stephen Kenny
14   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:04:42

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Yeah why doesn't he Gareth, we were only playing fucking Stoke!!!
Derek Thomas
15   Posted 05/12/2011 at 21:57:10

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'Be careful what you wish for'....right back at ya Gareth (and others) same old no answer/argument Bollocks.

As a none answer it's right up there with the other Question...Yeah but who else could we have.

My answer is...at the moment almost fuckin anybody.

Btw I am very careful what I wish for, top of my list in no special order.

Keep the ball...you can't play without it, no matter how much City paid for you.

Find space...if you stand still you are effectively marking yourself and saving the opposition the expense of a man to do it.

Pass and Move, It aint new, It used to be called push and run in the 50's. We were taught it at school....the 3 g's, Get it, Give it, Go. and when you got the hang of that you went for the 4th G...Get it back again.

Shoot.

Don't defend with 11 men in your own box. This is permissible at Rorkes Drift or the Alamo, but even then the defenders only came out with a Draw and a Loss... about par for Moyes's Tactic(no 's' deliberately...)
Eugene Ruane
16   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:14:29

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Derek - summed up perfectly.
Paul Knox
17   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:09:46

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Beware what you wish for. Yeah right... so let's keep an overpaid inept manager until he sends us down.
Ciaran O'Brien
18   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:22:19

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I agree that we should be playing 4-4-2 more because playing 4-5-1 all the time is too predictable, but we have no creativity in our side apart from Baines. All our strikers are Target men except for Saha. Our Forward Line is just not good enough.

The reason for this is that we have no fuckin money. Saha is a crock and is 33 going on 34. The side needs two players in Janary. First, a creative midfielder such as Donavan, even if it is a loan, but we should spend whatever we have on a reliable finisher in a poacher role. I don't know who but somebody has to be out there.
John Shaw
19   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:20:24

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I'd start by getting some fucking former attackers on the coaching staff, instead of the slew of defenders that we currently have! I do believe that Moyes is setting the scene for some hardball in January with the board, and not before fucking time. He should have told the tight arses in the summer to find funds or he was off, Kenwright would have fucking shit himself and no doubt gone running to that no tax twat Green asking what to do, the bunch of useless fuckers!!

Off topic though, one thing I would say is that the tribute to Gary Speed was exceptional and very well done to all concerned, including Kenwright, it really is a shame he's skint and doesn't know how to run a successful football club (or can't employ people who can!!)
Gareth Morgan
20   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:13:28

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How arrogant to assume we have a god given right to beat Stoke. If anything they have better attacking players than us. Sadly there isn't much difference between Stokes squad and ours in terms of quality nowadays.

We're now losing at least one of our better players every transfer window while teams around us strengthen, yet Moyes still has to find a way to compete in the toughest league in the world.
Eugene Ruane
21   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:39:44

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Gareth (18) - where does anyone say we have a God given right to beat Stoke? (or anyone!).

The complaints, in the main, are about performance (or lack of it) and managerial ability (or the lack of it).

And those things we are MORE than entitled to complain about (especially when both are fucking shite!)
Ray Roche
22   Posted 05/12/2011 at 22:49:47

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Gareth,
Stoke are certainly not as good a side as we CAN be...if only Moyes would take the shackles off and attempt to play football.

Stoke are a physically big side, so what did we do? Put crosses in or hit long balls into their defence. No one ran at them with pace, which puts the shits up big defenders, and no shots from outside the area.

Fuckin' hopeless.
Mark Riding
23   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:00:59

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Ray #22, I agree. We needed a bit of guile / skill.. Shit, did I just say skill ?
Ciaran O'Brien
24   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:02:09

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I do think it was stupid on Sunday, the way we were constantly playing balls high into the box just didn't work. Stoke are fantastic in the air and also have solid and tough defenders. It just showed the lack of creativity in the side, especially in the middle of the park.

By the way, where was Drenthe?
Mark Riding
25   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:04:30

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Sorry, I did say skill.. if my kids are reading, its what Everton had in what you know as the 'old times'.

Grandad talks about a chap called 'Alan Ball', he was a bit of a winger apparently, and you may hear him talk of a 'Big Bad Bob Latchford' he was a centre forward who scored goals, I know, a bit weird for you young ones that one.. a "goalscorer"..


And as you see me wearing a shirt with 'Hafnia' on it, I wear it as a symbol to other Everton fans of how old I am, I don't need to say more, they just know...
Jamie Sweet
26   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:11:58

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Mike Elbey absolutely nails it #6.

All this "be careful what you wish for" is absolute bullshit.

Annoying thing is, if Moyes wasn't such a stubborn git, opened his fucking eyes and was willing to learn from his mistakes, then he could still deliver all those things that Mike wishes for.

The fact that there are still people out there who continue to defend Moyes, despite the dour shit he serves us week in week out, without even a hint that he's willing to make changes to his shitty boring as fuck turgid formula, simply dumbfounds me.

If you really think we couldn't possibly do better (than NO shots on target v STOKE at HOME) then we might as well all give up and walk away now. I personally believe we can do much better. Even with the current squad. EVEN with our current manager if he pulled his head out of his own arse and stopped being such a negative one trick pony!
Tom Bowers
27   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:20:08

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Well said, Andy, and most knowledgeable Evertonians will agree. The man is insufferable, stubbornly carrying on with the same tactics, with the same players, match after match. I cannot remember when last we won a game in style the way we older Evertonians remember.

Yes, I know we have had some highlights during the Moyes era but each game these days is a struggle. Even so, we do have some talent, there seems to be a lack of craft when it comes down to breaking down defences. Arteta leaving put paid to what little we had.

Coleman and Baines seem to be our only hope of creativity but other teams are getting wise to that by double-marking. Coleman in particular usually starts off like a house on fire but seems to drift out of the game alfter a while.

The situation is crying out for new blood and it must start with the manager. I think Moyes has stagnated and, even if money is made available, I don't believe he is the man to take Everton to the next level. Mid-table is simply not good enough.
Mark Riding
28   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:32:06

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BK doing a broadcast as now 23.30 on 05/12/11.. On Radio 2..
Mark Riding
29   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:33:59

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23.34.. Radio 2 playing Z-Cars... no shit..
Phil Spencer
30   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:27:46

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I keep forgeting that it's supposed to be entertaining, why did we buy our season tickets? Can you honestly remember leaving the match thinking "That was great, really enjoyed that, can't wait for next game"?If you can, you have got a better memory than me.

It's doom and gloom and I'm afraid Moyes has ran his course; he knows there's nothing in the pot... it's time for a fresh face with fresh ambition, someone who can motivate, someone who has a Plan B...

Answers on a postcard.
Fran Mitchell
31   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:42:09

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Garath #1 "Same old bollocks being spouted every time we lose a game"

Yup, which seems to be more often than not. It's the losing games part that does it.

All you bloody anti-Moyes people, with this 'we don't like losing' attitude. So repetitive.
Nick Entwistle
32   Posted 05/12/2011 at 23:52:27

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David, I've got no money to give you for the next two years, we have to sell ? not buy, and if at that time you're 10th then you know where the door is, loser.
Mick Davies
33   Posted 06/12/2011 at 02:47:59

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I wish for a manager who, despite being paid obscenely unjustified amounts of money, actually knows more about the game than me, and actually tries to earn some of that wedge
Mick Davies
34   Posted 06/12/2011 at 02:51:36

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The Stoke goal was incredible. It came from a shot outside the area, roughly in the centre and if you have seen the TV view, there are 4 Everton defenders in the right back position marking no one! Well I know Hibbert is shite and needs a lot of support to do his job but 4 of them?
Rob Teo
35   Posted 06/12/2011 at 04:29:19

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To follow up on Mick's #34 comments: The fact that we had all 11 of our players in the box was really just ridiculous. When the corner was delivered, the Stoke players pulled our players all over the box with their movement. At one point, two of our players even collided with each other as a result of having to chase the players they were marking.*

It'd be interesting to know how often we concede from corners compared to other teams that do not pull all 11 players back into the penalty box. At the very least, we should've had some players on the edge of the penalty area to challenge for or pick up any soft clearances.

*From 0:25 onwards, second vid at http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2011/12/04/everton-vs-stoke-0-1-highlights-2011-december-robert-huth-goal-video/
Vijay Nair
36   Posted 06/12/2011 at 04:34:56

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The trouble is Moyes will never go on his own accord, and Kenshite will never sack him because any other manager who comes in will not put up with his crap. So unfortunately we are left to, how shall I put this eloquently...."drown in our shit"!
Ernie Baywood
37   Posted 06/12/2011 at 04:26:58

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Just watched Blackburn v Swansea, Liverpool v Fulham, and Wolves v Sunderland. Every one of those teams play more football than us. Yakubu was great ? little slide rule passes, goals, and generally a good player playing with some freedom to do what he is good at. That's Blackburn! You know, poor old under threat Blackburn!

We are, without any doubt in my mind, the leinverted tube team in the division. Never mind 8th to 10th ? we'll be lucky to stay up. We are fucking awful.

That performance against Stoke was unforgivable ? no movement, hoofball, general lack of effort. If Moyes has any sort of professional pride then he should be considering whether he should stay when the players clearly aren't prepared to put in.
Ernie Baywood
38   Posted 06/12/2011 at 04:40:56

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Strange iPhone correction there - leinverted tube was least creative!
Henry Enzio
39   Posted 06/12/2011 at 09:10:22

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Nothing like a reasoned argument "lost his spark" indeed..

Whatever next? Moyes Mojo down 30%!!!
Richard Dodd
40   Posted 06/12/2011 at 09:59:10

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Davey is due to get his attacking re-inforcements in January and as soon as they are bedded in our fortunes will improve. Once that happens, his critics will fade away, just as they have in every season past. Eighth place is ours for the taking!
Mark Murphy
41   Posted 06/12/2011 at 10:01:23

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Alan Ball was a winger???

Im no fan of Moyes and I think we should be doing better with the players we still have available,
BUT I'll bet a cyber pint that we finish above Newcastle.
And thats as good as it will get for the near foreseeable so get used to it.
Daniel A Johnson
42   Posted 06/12/2011 at 12:26:33

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Lets face it if we go a goal down were fucked as that means we have to score 2.

Moyes knows it, the players know it, opp managers know it. We know it.

Other teams now know nick a goal and do a QPR or SToke and keep it tight and thats how you beat everton.

WIth one up front and high balls pumped up to cahill its predictable

Everton are impotent and a bucket of Viagra isnt the cure.
Rob Hollis
43   Posted 06/12/2011 at 12:29:25

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Going to watch Everton at the moment, even when they win is depressing, annoying and does nothing for your life.

It is so lacking in any adventure and spirit it is just bloody miserable. Life is hard enough. I don't just mean goals, I love to watch good defending like the immediate post Rooney team, but even that has gone.

It is time for a change because at least that gives some hope. At the moment there is none.
Anthony Lewis
44   Posted 06/12/2011 at 12:19:19

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I see it as Moyes is damned if does damned if doesn't. We play football and get tonked and all the critics are out baying for blood saying "how the f**k does he think we can play like that, we've got shit players in Osman, Coleman, Hibbert and Jag-hoofball-ielka [INSERT EXTRA PLAYERS OF YOUR CHOICE HERE]". We play hoofball and everyone's out baying for blood shouting "Why the f**k don't we play football, you know pass and move. Teach Jag-hoofball-ielka to pick a f**kin pass".

The simple fact is: yes Moyes seems to have lost his spark (whatever happened to the manager that when we were under the cosh would put on an extra striker and go 3 up front just to take the pressure off). The players are severly lacking confidence. We have no money. We have no strikers (and I mean no strikers - Saha and Vellios can't be classed as strikers - Saha's past it and Vellios is just not up to the mark).

But what is the answer?

Replace the manager?

OK let's do that... What do we get when we replace him and who would replace him? Any manager coming in to replace Moyes will, quite simply, revert to the default shite served up by Moyes; eventually. As he quickly realises that trying to play football with Jag-hoofball-ielka in the team and the rest of the players, that they simply are not up to the task. He'll likely moan about having no money to buy top quality players to replace those that aren't good enough. He'll likely take us down (especially if some of the names we see bandied about are to go by - Mark f**kin Hughes Jeeezzzzz). He'll likely resort to a pattern of play that he believes brings the best out of the shite we have at our disposal. Because we simply do not have the players anymore (we've lost Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Yakubu, Carsley) and none of these have been replaced.

Without a serious injection of cash I'm afraid we're going to have to continue to put up with it. We don't like it. I don't like it. We all want Everton to be playing at the highest level, with the best players at our disposal, with a decent if not all conquering transfer budget to utilise season after season.

But it just isn't going to happen. Not anytime soon anyway.

I for one don't want to see Moyes leave. Whilst I'm bored to tears watching Everton this season. Whilst I'm increasingly frustrated at the lack of foresight, money and transfer dealings. And I desperately want something done about it. I'm pragmatic enough to understand that what we have, is what we've got.

And through it all I will always support Everton. Because that is what we do. And that is what we should all be doing.

Let's get behind the team, let's support the team. Through thick and thin.

We are Everton. We hold our heads high in the sight of all and say "Yes I support that team. I'm an Evertonian and I'm proud of the fact. I'm born not manufactured".

The changes that need to made are simple. The board needs to go. We need a board with vision, ingenuity, guile and passion. (Not just passion from one of it's members and apathy from the rest). And yes i do put Kenwrong erm wright in that passionate bracket. He undoubtedly loves Everton. He undoubtedly wants the best for the Everton. He's just simply, like most of the aspects of Everton football club, is not up to the task. And while I don't want to turn on Kenwright. Therein the problems lie.

Sorry went on a bit then. There goes my lunch hour
Kevin Tully
45   Posted 06/12/2011 at 12:52:01

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Seriously fellas, Davey is not going to change, so forget about him having any sort of epiphany.

He plays uninspiring percentage football, and plays it by the book.

Moyes and this board are quite happy with finshing anywhere between 15th & 5th.

The only time we play well is when we get past the 40 point mark, and he lets the team express themselves.

The problem lately is, we have lost the Pienaar / Baines link as well as Arteta. We haven't got a striker of note either.

Put that together with miserable arse, and we are getting what we deserve, the most boring shite of an excuse for football in years.

Please tell me how this will change, same manger , same board, average players, same old turgid football. Now where's me drink.
Paul Holmes
46   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:02:24

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Moyes Out! Get the £60,000+ top earner off the wage bill, for doing such a rubbish job!
Gavin Ramejkis
47   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:04:11

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The only trouble is Anthony is that Moyes' style of play is taking us down, his boring dour percentage football earned him survival with the players he had in the past, the current personnel aren't suited to it and he needs to change tactics, now there's the rub, he won't and for some obscure reason whether we were playing Tamworth in a cup match or Barcelona you could almost guarantee anyone could name the starting line up, formation, lack of tactics, subs, time when the subs were brought on and a good shout at the likely result.

For the life of me I'm finding the dirge of if he's replaced we will be relegated infuriating using exactly the same nonsense argument that the pro Moyes lot like to throw about and that is where is the proof? The only thing it would guarantee is a change of manager, you would hope it would bring a change of tactics, a change of approach to each game on its own merits and not the same one trick pony shite served up week in week out, month in month out and year in year out by Moyes.
Marcus Kendall
48   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:18:16

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It's quite tragic really that Moyes has created this image (with considerable help by the useless media in this country) that he's polishing a turd and getting terrible players playing way ABOVE themselves.

It's simply not true. Whilst our squad is a little on the threadbare side, our actual eleven is better than most in the League excluding the top 6. The reason were failing is because Moyes is failing; his management style has never convinced me, percentage football is a very risky tactic and we never take control of our own destiny under this manager.

Why can't he set us up to go for it at home against shite teams like Wolves, Stoke etc? Why do they always look so comfortable defending against us? We rely on set pieces and penalties for goals? ... We really don't need to be this way.

As for a replacement, some of the suggestions are absurd (Reid, Dave Jones, Eriksson, McClaren), some are unrealistic and overrated anyway (Ancelotti, Hiddink).

We need to go for someone young, dynamic and someone with a long-term vision. There are plenty of managers who would fit that description in the lower leagues like Adkins, Clark, Freedman etc. Risky? Perhaps. But a change could do the wonders for the players we have.
Tony J Williams
49   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:11:43

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"his boring dour percentage football earned him survival with the players he had in the past" - European qualification = survival??? feck me, some people are hard to please.

"He treats Wigan as though they are Man City, in fact his default start position is, "Let's see what we can nick from this game" - he treats every team the same - 4-5-1, so what's the difference in a 4-5-1 against Man United, Stoke, Liverpool, QPR and a 4-5-1 against Wigan....absolutely nothing, yet somehow its used as a blag statistic to somwhow prove Moyes shits himself against lesser sides. Load of rubbish, he just doesn't change his formation, full stop.

"Keep the ball...you can't play without it, no matter how much City paid for you.

Find space...if you stand still you are effectively marking yourself and saving the opposition the expense of a man to do it.

Pass and Move, It aint new, It used to be called push and run in the 50's. We were taught it at school....the 3 g's, Get it, Give it, Go. and when you got the hang of that you went for the 4th G...Get it back again.

Shoot.

You're right it's not new, so why can't the professional footballers do it without being told to?

Someone on here once said that teh role of the manager is severly over rated, it is. The lazy feckers on the pitch cannot use the excuse of poor tactice when they can't even control the fecken ball...how is that Moyes's fault? Yes, I know he bought them, but a professional player shouldn't forget how to control a ball or actually manage to move once he has passed it.

Bloody player apologists.
James Stewart
50   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:39:11

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@44 and 45.

No need to post anything new agree with every word! I cannot wait for the day Moyes leaves.
Tony J Williams
51   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:44:50

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James, I actually cannot wait for Everton FC to have some money so the manager, whomever it may be, can actually buy decent players and compete in the league.

I want that a hell of a lot more than getting rid of the unfortunate fucker who is here or will be here when Moyes goes. Nothing fundamentaly will change until the board supports the manager will transfer money.
Jeremy Benson
52   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:46:25

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I don't know why all these posts are so negative.

Apparently all you need to achieve anything you want in life is to have a goal, desire and belief.

Right now, I've just written a letter to Ola. I'm expecting a knock at the door later with her in a nurses outfit.

We should send a letter to davey, asking him to set a goal of winning the premiership next season, and if he desires it and believe it, it too will magically happen...
Tony J Williams
53   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:03:15

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It doesn't work Jeremy, Lucy Pinder still hasn't turned up with Kelly Brook and Sophie Howard for the Naked Twister Championship.

I truly belived it would happen too......
Howard Don
54   Posted 06/12/2011 at 13:59:21

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Kept a potless club in the top half of the PL for the best part of the last ten years, several times in the top six and once in the top four. This season the Club deteriorates from being potless to the bank calling the shots and virtually forcing the sale of key players and still top half of PL. Yeh that takes real ineptitude.













Paul Holmes
55   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:17:29

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Where in this current financial climate can you earn £60k+ a week for doing such a rubbish job and blame everyone else but yourself!?!

Everton and David Moyes.

Fans need to know how much this manager gets every week while a lot of fans work hard for little money, and pay decent money to support this club, home and away. Get real and don't let the past sway you ? we are in the present and we need a change...

Moyes Out!

David Nicholls
56   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:09:35

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If Moyes was to go, who is seriously going to come in and take over a club with no money to spend? No-one of any repute is the answer. I cannot beleive the complete lack of respect Moyes gets from posters on this site. People on here live in some fantasy land where just because a team is called 'Stoke' or 'Wolves' that we just need to turn up and we'll beat them. We don't have a pot to piss in we have sold our best players and we will still finish in the top half.
The day Moyes goes will be a sad day IMHO! Fuck knows where we'd be now if we had sacked him after some knee jerk reaction after we finished 17th or were thumped by Arsenal or knocked out by Shersbury/Reading?
Tony J Williams
57   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:19:03

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Where in this current financial climate can you earn £60k+ a week for doing such a rubbish job and blame everyone else but yourself!?! - Errrrr, how about the fecken banks?

What's his wages got to do with it anyway? But if the man is so inept at everything, how did he wrangle himself such a lucrative contract?

Get real? What does that even mean? Is a player who is on £70k a week the definition of reality now?

We all know how much he is on, the papers tell us everything and so do all the posters suggesting that because he is on som much he should do a, b or c.

He is the same manager that was on one of the lowest wages when his contract renewal came around......and that's the problem, he hasn't progressed and as with nearly everything else, you stay still, you move backwards, just ask the incompetent board
Tony J Williams
58   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:26:22

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David, you can't ask that question dontchaknow?

It's not for the angry posters to find a replacement, they just want him gone, nothing else matters.

Some nutters actually want Mark Hughes...the best being Martinez....feck me!
Kevin Sparke
59   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:34:38

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Mark Hughes... really?

I mean... really?

The man who couldn't build a Manchester City team with all the gold in Arabia...

Mark Hughes - the reverse King Midas - everything he touched turned to shite...
Jimmy Sørheim
60   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:36:04

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At this point anyone else would do, but while we are on the topic let us not go for a overly defensive ex defending manager again.
Let us try someone with attacking knowledge.
Also Moyes is not on a 60.000 contract he is on a 65.000 a week contract.

Alan Stubbs is our reserve team manager and could be an outsider, as could Phil Neville. Only problem is are they the same as Moyes, only different make-up.
Paul Lambert comes to mind, Staale Solbakken ex-Kopenhagen manager who got them into CL every year is my favourite just now, he currently is at Køln in Germany.
Poyet has been named but I hardly know him.
A Norwegian great Nils Arne Eggen, ex-Rosenborg Manager would be a man after my taste, though the young version we should go for is Solbakken, no doubt.
We need not only look at England for a new manager, and with 65.000 a week contract I think we can tempt a good enough manager to come here.
Just look at O`Neill at Sunderland.
James Flynn
61   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:09:26

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Tony (48) - "Someone on here once said that teh role of the manager is severly over rated, it is".

That was me and I'll always say it. Pick the sport, very few count. Moyes is one of the few. Interesting this call for this manager or that or "anyone but Moyes". Let's get SAF in or, better, that fellow managing Barca. Why not?

Somehow, one of them will magically make our current mid-table-at-best talent world beaters! Wasn't that easy? Who knew? Just get another manager and the exact same squad will become more talented.


You get what you pay for (as we MLS fans know too well). The frustration is that 2 years ago, we had the talent to take on and whip the best in the league and were all excited about it. Turns out it was the high water mark of these last few seasons.

By the way, can't remember Moyes preventing that team from attacking. Also can't remember those screaming for his head now, screaming for his head then.
Gareth Morgan
62   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:39:30

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Eugene (21) Nobody has specifically said we had a god given right to beat Stoke. The fact that so many people are calling for Moyes to be sacked the day after losing against them suggests so.

Granted we didn't play well but Stokes tactics didn't allow us to. Football is a game and sometimes your team loses.

Tony J Williams
63   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:02:27

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Staale Solbakken - It's always interesting to compare names (even though this seems to be an exercise for Jimmy to tell us some managers from his region he likes)

The man you have championed above (stato time) has lost 4 out the last 7, with one draw and two victories.

Moyes (I am not defending him because it's just has bad) has lost 4 and won 3. So your champion has a worse recent record than the man who is apparantly tacticly inept and is an idiot.

Just remember you can't use the money argument, or any kind of mitigating factor here, no, that doesn't wash, no siree bob.

"Just look at O`Neill at Sunderland" eh? He is a manager who left Villa because they wouldn't give him money. he is going to a club that has spent £24m on transfers. Of course he would go there
James Flynn
64   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:14:31

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Jimmy (59) - Let's bring in any of them you name. How will they make the exact same group of players more talented? We're where we are now because most of the teams above us have more talent. Not better managers.

I have to say, it's surprising to me to see so many folks in here attaching such great importance to who the manager is.

Let's forget the ones you named. Let's get Pep, SAF, Hiddink etal. Given our financial situation, how would any of them make the current squad become more talented? They wouldn't.
Mike Green
65   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:31:02

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James - they would.
Mike Green
66   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:32:05

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And if you dont believe me, Google these two names:

Arsene Wenger

Ray Parlour
Anthony Lewis
67   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:16:00

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James #60

Totally agree with you. A change of manager doesn't necessarily mean that he is by the very token of being new, going to suddnely make shite players brilliant and turn around our fortunes.

It was the point I was trying to make, before going completely of tangent and chatting sh*te.

Tony J #50 -
Exactly the point and I think it goes for all of us. We just want to be able to compete, financially. And if we can I don't give a fuck who's in charge at that stage, just so long as he does a good job.

I can't stand the football being served up at the moment at Goodison. And my guess is neither can anyone else. But it was only 3 years ago, that we were competing in Europe. Something that was brought about by Moyes. And whilst I believe that no-one can live on past glory's. The current plight can not be attributed to Moyes. Since those 3 years, virtually the entire team has been ripped apart and not replaced, cos we have no money.

If anyone can do a better job than Moyes, then get him and let's move on. But honestly, who can? I look around and I see no-one that can and not one of the mentioned by so many on here could either.

Something will change at some stage. We'll either go down, get taken over, go bankrupt, Moyes will leave, more players will leave, get some investment [INSERT MORE THINGS HERE]. But until that time we have what we have.

If we do come in to money. I would like to see Moyes given the opportunity to see if he can do it with a budget. But if he can't, then he can fuck off, and we can get in Sparky Hughes... (joke).
Kevin Tully
68   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:22:58

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O.K, I will give you the names of a few mangers guys.

Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Hiddink, Ferguson, Scolari,Villas Boas, Erikson.

All of these have been successful at smaller clubs before going on to bigger things.

Are we saying there is NO-ONE in world football who would not come for the wages Moyes is paid?

Or alternatively, there is NO-ONE who can make us a good footballong side, with a different approach to our 4-5-1 see if we can nick one manager?

It may go tits up and we will be relegated, but we will never know - will we?

If we are all happy with mediocrity, that's what we will get. I just don't believe there is not a soul who can bring back belief and style to Everton, with or without a fortune.
Ciaran O'Brien
69   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:24:00

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I don't want Moyes to go because he is a fantastic manager who has saved us from the doldrums these last 10 years. However, currently, with our bad finances in the public and all the negativity around the club, these are the reasons why we are playing shite. Our fans hardly act as the twelfth man in our matches and are so quiet.

Yeah, we play dour football... but so do Stoke, and they have the loudest fans in the League. Look at Bolton, they play more attractive football and they are bottom of the league. West Brom, a few years ago played brilliant attcking football but were relegated under Tony Mowbray, as did Blackpool last year.

The truth is the teams that play attarctive football but at the same time are successful are the ones with cash. People say Arsenal have not spent much but Koscielny, Vermaelen, Squillacchi, Arshavin and Arteta cost over £50 million between them.

Moyes should stay and get a few quid to spend to show what he could get with money. He could sign five Artetas for a £10 million budget. Who really could replace him at this time?

Remember, it is very easy to criticize but we should all get behind the team. Real fans support their team through thick and thin. Ireland for example, play shocking and dire football, worst than us and they have the best fans in International football and so do well.
Dave Richman
70   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:39:29

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Now come on lads, I can't believe nobody has thrown this name into the hat.... He's proven in the Premier League, had won a shitload of honours, is extremely popular wherever he goes, winds up opposition managers..... ladies & gentlemen.... I give you:

Rafael Benitez!!

Hehehehehehehehehehe!!!!! Couldn't resist it :)
Tony J Williams
71   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:39:33

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No-one is happy at all Kevin, what posters are saying is that without financial backing we are screwed, no matter who comes in.

We have sold off most of our best players, more to go in Jan? I would definitely say that some will move in the summer,

The manager may be able to give the team a little extra but if your team is shite, that little extra pushes them up to being ordinary.

I don't care what you say, the best manager in the world would not get that team into the Champions League, let alone have a pop at the title. It's irrelvant anyway as the best managers wouldn't want to sully their reputations by managing us.
Brian Waring
72   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:25:12

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Some of you are missing the point. I know we don't have the god given right to beat other teams, whether it be Wigan, Stoke etc. Its about having to endure boring, negative, defensive, dour, one dimensional, I wouldn't know a tactic if it smacked me in the face Moyes.

Tony J Williams
73   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:48:02

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Dave, he could at least teach our players to cheat and get free kicks and penalties.

He wouldn't have Neville picking himself up and telling the ref he's ok, feck that, he would have Phil rolling around in agony waving the imaginary card and screaming for a stretcher.
Mike Green
74   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:53:18

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It's a fair point Brian. What depressed me about Sunday wasn't being beaten by Stoke City - it was being beaten by "Tony Pulis's" Stoke City. Horrible.
James Flynn
75   Posted 06/12/2011 at 15:42:38

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Kevin (67) - I'm not saying their not good managers or that they wouldn't be good for EFC. I'm saying none of them would get better results from the current squad. How?

Talents what we're lacking and the reason we are where we are. Not the manager. Even if it's one of the ones you or I listed.
Mike Green
76   Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:10:59

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James - what if we put a manager in who was worse than Moyes? By that logic they wouldnt get worse results from the squad either.

As bad as things might seem right now believe you me if I was put in as manager things would start going right down the toilet....!
Stephen Kenny
77   Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:18:14

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James,

If the manager makes no odds lets go and get the cheapest fella we can find.

In fact, I'll do it for £25,000 a year. That way we will have an extra 3-4mill to spend on "talent".

I appreciate that were your from a "coach" may not be the most important factor towards success, but over here the managers ability, or otherwise will be the single biggest factor towards success or failure.

Your logic is deeply flawed.
James Flynn
78   Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:26:57

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Mike (75) - "what if we put a manager in who was worse than Moyes? By that logic they wouldnt get worse results from the squad either".

Not following that logic. If we got in a worse manager, of whom they are legion (the most over-rated part of professional sport, the manager/coach), we would definately get worse. In fact, they wouldn't manage better than you. Or me.

We need more talent, which is not going to happen given EFC's current financial condition. We've been dumping talent because of finance, not because of Moyes.
Denis Richardson
79   Posted 06/12/2011 at 14:45:14

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1) Will people please stop coming out with the 'who would we get' bollocks.

Had you heard of Moyes before he came to us? (Honest answer!). Do you really think there is no other manager on the entire planet who could do the job? Maybe (shock horror) get a team to have a shot on target at home against Stoke? Maybe drop players like Cahill for a bit for being totally off form. Maybe big up our players rather than constantly focusing on any/some negative aspect of their play. Maybe be a bit positive now and again. Maybe not already admit defeat before a ball as been kicked. Maybe vary the tactics now and then to suit the opposition/players we have. Maybe stop moaning about not having any money (WE KNOW!). etc etc etc (this really asking too much?)

2) For the love of God please stop going on about top 4 finishes - we are in the SEVENTH season since this happened to us. Yes SEVEN! This is ancient history so please put it back in the cupboard and lock the door!

3) Moving on from point 2 above, most of the people are rightly focusing on the now and the near term so again will people please stop going on about Moyes' achievments x YEARS ago!. All Evetronians, currently pro and anti Moyes, are more or less respectful and grateful for what he did in the first 5-7 years at the helm. However, he simply does not look up for the job any more after 10 years, please focus on our current plight and not some achievment when I had a damn site more hair on my head!

Despite our mismanagement at the top, the one thing we do have going for us is that the league has at least 4-5 teams who are arguably much worse than we were so I would expect (yes EXPECT) any half decent manager to keep us well away from the relegation zone with the squad we have - this does not need a great manager to achieve.

We DO NOT have that shit a squad, players such as Howard, Distin, Baines, Jagielka, Fellaini, Drenthe, Saha (if fit), Heintinga would get into at least half of the other current premiershiop sides (IMO). Thats almost a full first XL of actually not bad players. The problem is the tactics deployed and the complete lack of confidence and motivation (none that I can see anyway).

One last time, please stop going on about Moyes' acheivments in the distant past, the world has changed many times over since then - back then he actually looked as if he gave a shit!

Where's my Xanax!
Denis Richardson
80   Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:55:51

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Forgot to mention the really promising younsters such as Rodwell, Barkley, Gueye and Vallios that we also have.........
James Flynn
81   Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:39:52

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Stephen (76) - "In fact, I'll do it for £25,000 a year. That way we will have an extra 3-4mill to spend on "talent"."

Ha. But not for long. Because once you realized you can manage as well as most (and you would), you'd be demanding a pay raise.

And why did you put "talent" in parenthesis? You can't really believe having this or that manager is more important than having talent. You'll find out different once EFC names you the new manager, no materr how much money is freed up by your low wage.
James Flynn
82   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:01:35

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Denis (78) - "All Evetronians".

My God, who called us a small club? We have an inter-galactic following.
Denis Richardson
83   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:08:58

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We are bigger than you think James! We are everywhere............
Stephen Kenny
84   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:03:37

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Because "talent" is not an often used word to decribe good footballers.

A bit of "talent" on the pitch usually means cheerleaders or dancers.

James, I believe the manager is 100% more important than the players available. One area I've never slated Moyes is in the transfer market, he generally finds us decent players on the cheap. The managers responsibility is to build a squad of talented players. Look at the "talent" we had when he took over and look at the squad a year ago. The manager brought about that change.

If he was as skilled as say Alex Ferguson at motivating players or as skilled as Wenger in coaching players to play a certain way then that squad would have challenged for honours.

There are numerous examples of one man completely changing the face of English and World Football, thats why the manager is the most important role in Football.
Dennis Stevens
85   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:23:35

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Quite right, Denis - wherever you go there always seems to be another Evertonian.
Brian Hill
86   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:10:53

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I never understand the Moyes supporters who claim financial constraints as the major, if not only, source of his failures. I agree with those who contend that a more adventurous manager/coach, with the same players, could and would produce much better results. That performance on Sunday was beyond disgraceful and exactly reflected the current and, unfortunately, long term disposition of Moyes - no confidence, no belief, no game plan, nothing to offer, a man and team counting out time. How much worse must it become before Moyes supporters accept that he has become disillusioned to the point of indifference? He was once a great servant of our beloved Club, he is now a liability.
Sam Hoare
87   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:27:40

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Stephen, not sure that is the definitive definition of talent!

If Ferguson was managing us, under the same financial restrictions where do you reckon we'd come? I'd be amazed if we made the top 4. Of course managers are important but there is only so much they can do with the players at their disposal.
Dennis Stevens
88   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:24:42

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Well put,Stephen. When Moyes arrived I think many of us hoped he might be the man to take us forward in the long-term. He arrived as a breath of fresh air, the same players the performed so poorly for Walter Smith seemed to raise their game, Moyes would make bold substitutions - he seemed to have drive & ambition, & at the same time seemed a thoroughly decent chap. I don't know exactly how, when & why it all changed but he now seems somewhat of a shadow of the young manager who joined the club almost 10 years ago. Being manager of Everton doesn't seem to be doing him much good, apart from his bank balance, but more importantly, it doesn't seem to be Everton much good any longer.
Karl Meighan
89   Posted 06/12/2011 at 16:48:59

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If Moyes cannot raise a team who should be confident after 2 wins against a Stoke team who have been tonked after every Euro game then something is wrong.

Billy simply isn't good enough Colemans been found out Osmans as weak as he's always been and Felliani is still doing twirls but failing to dominate midfield and Cahills looking old and weary, thats 5 who Barkley should be in before for a start.

The sad thing is that instead of trying to play better attacking football and score some goals to take the pressure off Moyes will go even more defensive knowing that if we concede in any match were in big trouble.

Moyes should be aware that the inclusion of Barkley would give the crowd a lift which is badly needed instead of the "How long have i got to put up with that fuckin Russian" type of attitude.
Rob Murphy
90   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:41:31

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Feel sorry for Moyes really,took us as far as he possibly could & was unable to break the glass ceiling. Let down miserably by his board when he was a couple of players short. Maybe he should've walked away a la Joe Royle?? He'll more than likely move on next summer unless he's hounded out before then. Shame really.
Stephen Kenny
91   Posted 06/12/2011 at 17:58:06

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Sam,

Bear in mind the fella were talking about broke up the biggest monopoly in world football, the Old Firm. Beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen and took over at Man Utd when Merseyside completely dominated English football.

I think if Alex Ferguson walked into GP tomorrow we would be challenging for the title within 5 years. Same for Mourinho, Wenger would have us challenging the top 4 within 5 years.

Some men can make players feel 10 feet tall and inspire them to greater things than they knew they were capable of, some can't.
Paul Ferry
92   Posted 06/12/2011 at 18:28:33

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This Gareth Morgan and his ilk are far more negative about Everton than anyone else who calls for change. Pure bollocks this: 'Be careful what you wish for'. Okay Gareth Morgan and anyone else - Dodd and the rest (HA: you really believe that we will see a couple of new strikers in the new year and put your increasingly desperate sounding faith in that?) - who trot out the 'who else would we get' or 'he's doing a good job given all the financial constraints' lines: just how long are you prepared to put up with Moyes? What will it take you to believe like so many others that the ginger dud needs to go? Do you have your own limits beyond which if Moyes goes you will write 'Moyes Out'.
Answers please, and don't do your usual narrow-minded status quo supporting and completely negative 'it's the best we can do' or 'the best that he can do'.
Paul Ferry
93   Posted 06/12/2011 at 18:28:33

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This Gareth Morgan and his ilk are far more negative about Everton than anyone else who calls for change. Pure bollocks this: 'Be careful what you wish for'. Okay Gareth Morgan and anyone else - Dodd and the rest (HA: you really believe that we will see a couple of new strikers in the new year and put your increasingly desperate sounding faith in that?) - who trot out the 'who else would we get' or 'he's doing a good job given all the financial constraints' lines: just how long are you prepared to put up with Moyes? What will it take you to believe like so many others that the ginger dud needs to go? Do you have your own limits beyond which if Moyes goes you will write 'Moyes Out'.
Answers please, and don't do your usual narrow-minded status quo supporting and completely negative 'it's the best we can do' or 'the best that he can do'.
Chris Butler
94   Posted 06/12/2011 at 18:30:10

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I'm sorry but is there any evidence Moyes can spend large amounts of money on good players? All his successful signings have been for no more than £5 million.

All his players have little personality, anybody that crosses him quicky dissapears or he gets the fans to turn on him. He's brainwashed thousands of people into believing that where we finish is the highest place we can finish. For example 2008-09 a little bit more effort and we could've finished 4th. He's brainwashed fans into believing beating Liverpool should be celebrated like we've won the league.

Moyes is simply too stubborn to change his ways, I believe his demeanour shows that he's no longer interested in Everton. Has he improved the Everton brand in his time at Everton and brought us to internatinal attention? I don't think so.

I disagree with the notion that most fans support him. Look how quiet our fans were against Stoke. Our fans knew they were going to witness a boring game. GP is like a morgue most days and, in my opinion, this is down to the football we play.

Watching an Everton game nowadays is awful viewing, never has it been more obvious that things need to change. I believe we need to change the club from top to bottom get rid of the likes of Kenwright and all the board, get rid of Moyes and get rid of the players who don't try. Our club is being destroyed internally by these people, the Blue Union focus on BK they fail to realise the club as a whole is in meltdown.
Mark Riding
95   Posted 06/12/2011 at 19:17:42

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Can anyone else see us play one up front against Tamworth ?
James Flynn
96   Posted 06/12/2011 at 19:17:46

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Stephen (90) - "I think if Alex Ferguson walked into GP tomorrow we would be challenging for the title within 5 years. Same for Mourinho, Wenger would have us challenging the top 4 within 5 years."



Under current ownership? How?
Gareth Morgan
97   Posted 06/12/2011 at 19:29:44

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Ha i've never been refereed to as a 'this' before. Thanks that Paul Ferry.

Gerry Quinn
98   Posted 06/12/2011 at 20:51:56

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I hope Moysie treats Tamworth the same as Man City - any decent manager would!
Kevin Elliott
99   Posted 06/12/2011 at 20:41:39

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He sells Yakubu and Beckford for peanuts.And gives Anichebi a new contract..
Where would you find a striker with the pedigree of the yak for one and a half million?
Brilliant management that"eh Gareth".
We were lucky against Wolves and Bolton.
How many games do we have to lose before you realise that mr negative shouldn't be here anymore.
Domino Darkley
100   Posted 06/12/2011 at 21:56:27

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For example 2008-09 a little bit more effort and we could've finished 4th

==========

This from Mr. Butler ^ ^ ^

We were five points clear of fifth placed Liverpool in March and Easter was approaching with United coming to Anfield. (They duly won there BTW)

But the big story coming out of Goodison at that time wasn't about kicking on and cementing the spot.

It was Moyes going public with the "news" that he wasn't going to sign his new contract (remember? the negotiations went on until around November before his deal was done and he received an obscene salary).

We should have been in the CL that year and with a positive manager we would have been.

And I reckon there were at least two there years we might have made it by really pushing on.

In years to come we will look back on the Moyes myth as some sort of surreal era in the history of EFC.
Domino Darkley
101   Posted 06/12/2011 at 22:19:25

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Mr. Richardson's post No. 79.

Excellent.
Paul Holmes
102   Posted 06/12/2011 at 22:21:55

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Reading these posts I wonder how some of the supporters who support Moyes, who is on £65k A WEEK, and is rubbish at his so called day job go are content that he's doing his best with no money to spend and it's not his fault, it's the players' etc... etc!!

Everton have good players, young and old, and with the right manager to motivate them we could have a decent team. We have loads of international players at every level who look good for their country but NOT us!

Barkley will be the next Wayne Rooney at Everton, Cappello said on Sky, but he needs to play all the time to fufill his talent. What does Moyes do, puts him out of the picture to help him develop ! Moyes has not got a clue, check our results if you still think he has!
Paul Ferry
103   Posted 06/12/2011 at 23:45:27

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Come on Gareth mate, answer the questions.
Jimmy Sørheim
104   Posted 07/12/2011 at 00:45:12

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THose saying there are no money, who sold all our players this season? David Moyes.
Who is responsible for the downward spiral? David Moyes.
But in your minds Moyes has no blaim here whatsoever.
You are deluded if you think that Moyes is the best of the rest, we simply will not find out because you are too weak to stand up for what is right and wrong. What David Moyes did by selling Arteta and Yakubu was wrong, and the club is suffering from it.
It is Moyes who bears the whole blame for our current squad, dont you get that?
Get in another manager and people like Gueye,Vellios,Barkley,Baxter,Rodwell and Fellaini will blossom like they should do.

But until the MAJORITY of fans at Goodison start a fans unrest Moyes will be staying put. Simple as that, and then you will get what you deserve. I certainly will not be supporting Moyes after this years terrible transfer dealings.
Brian Harrison
105   Posted 07/12/2011 at 09:43:43

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Look, it wouldn't matter who was in charge, we still would be doing well to finish in the top 8. Money rules and always has; those with the most money finish at the top ? not just in this country but all over the world.

So Moyes's comment about us doing well to finish in the top eight is spot on given our budget for new players.
Tony J Williams
106   Posted 07/12/2011 at 12:01:44

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Sorry Jimmy, the delusion is yours if you honestly believe that Moyes was fine with all the players leaving.

"What David Moyes did by selling Arteta and Yakubu was wrong, and the club is suffering from it. It is Moyes who bears the whole blame for our current squad, don't you get that?" ? Don't you get that the banks were calling the shots, the sacking of Ian Ross and the leaked e.mails are clear evidence of that.

It's either player apologists or board apologists on here. Moyes is to blame for the tactics and the team, but not for the banks wanting money that has been frittered away by an incompetent board.

Over £20m in operating costs, seriously! ... what the fuck?

"Simple as that, and then you will get what you deserve." ? So now it's the fans' fault... nugget!
Gareth Morgan
107   Posted 07/12/2011 at 14:53:16

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To be honest Paul Ferry, I?d settle for surviving relegation and finishing mid-table this season. Don?t get me wrong, I?d love nothing more than to see Everton qualifying for the Champions League but I?m realistic enough to know that it?s not gonna happen.

You say 'he's doing a good job given all the financial constraints' is not a valid reason to support him. How so? So you expect the team to start playing just as well or even better when he?s had to sell his most creative players (Pienaar and Arteta)? Don?t get me wrong, if we we?re relegated I?d be the first person calling for his head, or if the club gave him significant investment in the team and there were no signs of improvement then I?d judge him. Until then I?ll continue to support him and I?ll continue to despise the board.
Gareth Morgan
108   Posted 07/12/2011 at 15:19:34

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Kevin Elliot (100) Fair point about Anichebe. I can't defend the indefensible.
Tony J Williams
109   Posted 07/12/2011 at 15:28:02

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Gareth, it's an anomaly that even Einstein and Prof Steven Hawkin would give up the ghost, if they were debating it.
Tony J Williams
110   Posted 07/12/2011 at 15:36:42

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Prof Hawkin - Steven Hawkings more intelligent mate .....!!
James Flynn
111   Posted 08/12/2011 at 18:31:37

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Denis (84) - I know - typo. But I got a kick out of it.
Mick Davies
112   Posted 09/12/2011 at 04:23:02

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Anyone who defends Moyes' position does not have the interests of Everton FC at heart. A manager who receives such a huge salary is responsible for all the transfers - in and out. If the board try to usurp his authority, he will publicly voice his disapproval so the fans can see that whatever it is that he disagrees with, they are aware that he wants the best for the club. So therefore, Moyes was responsible for allowing THREE crucial players to leave the club without bringing in replacements first. To me, that is bad management, as bad as anything i've seen in my 40 odd years as a blue, and considering how dire and uninspiring our "football" is just proves the stupidity of his dealings
Robin Cannon
113   Posted 09/12/2011 at 04:40:25

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For me, the issue is that Moyes management nowadays is a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

He's stale, conservative, unwilling to try new things and take risks. It's incredibly frustrating.

So would a fresh approach lead to an improvement over the short, and possibly even medium term? Probably yes. A young manager with new ideas, willing to take risks, throw in young players, not wedded to his favorites, wanting to play a different way even if it doesn't all pay off. Could make a big difference.

Thing is, despite some of the attempts to rewrite history to suggest he's always been rubbish, that's a description of Moyes when he arrived, and for a good few years of his management of Everton.

So we get another young, fresh manager. We seen an improvement in results, an improvement in style of play. Takes a lot of the pressure off BK. We go back to getting good press for how well our manager is doing against the odds. And after a few years of no investment, when the team he's built has reached a potential tipping point a couple of times, only to fall down because of lack of investment, the best players get sold off...that young, fresh manager...whoever he is...becomes stale, conservative, set in his ways.

It might very well be too late for David Moyes. Even if we were to get new investment, could he rebuild a team, move away from his favorites? I dunno. What's sad is that he'll probably never get the opportunity. That's a manager who for all his growing flaws has, over the past decade, given me a lot of restored pride in the team and its performances.

I don't deny that Moyes' management at the moment leaves a lot to be desired, or that another manager might have this squad performing better. But I don't want the focus to be on Moyes, I want the focus to be on BK and the current administration. Every solution, every improvement, is only going to be temporary until there is a root and branch change in the way the club is owned and run.
Matt Garen
114   Posted 09/12/2011 at 07:58:57

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Football is all about opinions. There are a majority on toffeeweb that are of the absolute belief that moyes is a terrible manager because he is clueless, gutless, out of his depth, boring, stale, dour, tactically inept, old fashioned. The consensus is as long as they were not moyes, anybody would walk into his job and improve, with literally no financial backing, the league placings of finishing between 5th and 8th or to put another way break the top 4 and out perform clubs that spend more on a striker in one day than everton have in total in 6 years. This opinion is valid, everyone is entitled to have one. There is just one flaw in it for me and that flaw is its total bollocks.
Paul Gladwell
115   Posted 09/12/2011 at 08:39:40

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Be careful what you wish for!
I wish to go to a game and enjoy it for once instead of leaving early depressed to fuck game after game year after year.
Ok we are skint but how many teams outside the top six pay a player £70k plus a week?
You can moan about money, but it does not cost money to leave a man up front when the other team has a corner, it does not cost money to have your team to play a few yards further up the field so not to isolate the ONE forward we play, we got a corner last week in injury time in the first half and we had three men still on the halfway line, until Jags cottoned on we were one down.
He has done a good job Moyes and It would be wrong to get shut halfway through a season, but his negativity is killing the club, even before a ball is kicked he moans about money even when we are facing teams who are shit and then comes out with shit about how we never sold Arteta for the money.
Dave Wilson
116   Posted 09/12/2011 at 09:52:19

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Andy

I dont have the stats to hand but I`m sure the number of defeats Everton have suffered under Moyes can surely be measured by the number of articles you have written calling for him to go... he's not listening, is he? He's not going anywhere, mate.

Moyes would have to be barking to leave the biggest no-lose situation in football and Kenwright would have to be a lot richer than he is to force him out. Davey boy is here for the duration.

Now the way I see it is this: You can spend the next 18 months tormenting yourself by repeating the same list of grievences every time we lose... OR You can accept that he is here ? at least until the end of his contract ? and that the majority still back him, warts and all.

I've talked you down from that window ledge on several occasions in the past, but you always end up back on it. I suggest a change of outlook; ditch the negativity, concentrate on the things about our club that make you proud... and prey like fuck Kenwright doesn't offer him a new contract.

Arsenal won't park the bus tomorrow. and I`ve been told you can get 15/2 for us to win. Lump on. If you do your wages, that ledge will still be there on Sunday.
James Flynn
117   Posted 09/12/2011 at 23:48:23

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Mick (113) -

"Anyone who defends Moyes' position does not have the interests of Everton FC at heart".

So if anyone disagrees with you, his or her loyalty to EFC is in question?

Two bridges too far, dickhead. Everyone in here loves EFC. Not just those who agree with you.

James Flynn
118   Posted 10/12/2011 at 01:08:57

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Paul (103} - "Reading these posts I wonder how some of the supporters who support Moyes, who is on £65k A WEEK"

Moyes got paid what ownership would pay him. Not a penny more or less.

How about your job? How much are you paid? Whatever ownership determines your job is worth, right?

Fran Mitchell
119   Posted 10/12/2011 at 01:36:40

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"Moyes got paid what ownership would pay him. Not a penny more or less.

How about your job? How much are you paid? Whatever ownership determines your job is worth, right?"

Does this make any sense?

Are you saying he deserves his wage?

Besides, as Paul 117 says.

It doesn't cost money to play differently. It doesn't cost money to drop tired, out-of-form players when other options are available. It doesn't cost money to bring on a substitute at half time if plan a aint working.

If I had a choice of us finishing 8th with Moyes or 10th without him, I'd be happy with the latter as it may mean a more enjoyable game.

Beyond this, I actually think we have some decent players. While we have no David Silva's and Co, we do have better players than Sunderland, Stoke etc. This is where Moyes is due credit, he has built a good team. Problem is, he has given up. He has lost belief, so the players have lost belief and now so have the fans.

He has good players, but he talks them down. Drenthe scores, Moyes says he needs to defend better. Barkley shines, Moyes says he ain't ready. Vellios scores, he ain't ready. Cahill, Jags, Ossie, Saha etc play crap and he praises them.

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