How about this for an idea:
In goal: Tim Howard.
Across the back: Coleman Jagielka Heitinga Distin Baines.
But here is how it would work: Coleman and Baines (imo they are soft defensively, perhaps mainly due to height) would be out-and-out wing-backs, encouraged to literally bomb forwards at any possibility. I think this would get the best out of Coleman, and the idea is that, if Coleman is forward, Jags covers for him at right back, whereas if Baines is forward, Distin covers for him at left back. Heitinga would have a licence to get on the ball and get forward.
Midfield: Fellaini Rodwell Barkley.
I would encourage Fellaini to sit back and break things up, and give Rodwell and Barkley permission to get on the ball and run at defenders, or sprint into the box and make runs. (This never seems to happen at the moment.)
Forward line: Saha Vellios
Again this is really making the best of what we have. Saha would be encouraged to link up with the midfield, Vellios encouraged to be in the penalty box! For me, it really beats having a lone striker, which does not seem to work for Everton at the moment. <0p>
You will notice there are no right or left midfielders; that is because I believe most of ours to be ineffective... however, in this system Baines and Coleman would hopefully provide the width we would need.
Robbie Carew, Posted 07/12/2011 at 21:27:29
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 08/12/2011 at 03:30:35
This lineup gives us a very solid defensive base (a must for Moyes) with a ball playing CB to offest Jags & Distin. It also eliminates our biggest weaknesses - RB and wide midfield.
We'd need cover for Coleman, but Drenthe has played wing back before, so he wouldn't be unfamiliar with this shape.
This would also move Osman & Bily inside (Ossie as a back up for mine).
This shape allows us to use pace out wide & quick passing (the side you've listed is generally very solid in that dept) to become a solid defensive unit with some serious counter attacking potential.
Still, afraid it won't happen.
2 Posted 08/12/2011 at 04:15:07
3 Posted 08/12/2011 at 04:24:41
Still, I agree: It won't happen. Coming up with alternative playing formations is not in Moyes' DNA.
4 Posted 08/12/2011 at 05:21:37
Like the formation and team by the way Robbie, would love to see it given a chance......well, we can at least dream about it!
5 Posted 08/12/2011 at 07:24:59
451 can be flexible, infact to work properly it has to be.
352 can be and must be flexible and fluid.
All formations should be flexible. But the numbers game we play is not flexible, it's just a handy label to give you a guide.
Moyes on the other hand is NOT flexible... and there lies the problem
6 Posted 08/12/2011 at 09:26:47
7 Posted 08/12/2011 at 09:19:42
I think we really need two up front these days to give some sort of threat. We seem pretty decent at times but then it just runs out of steam the closer we get to the opponents goal - our next opponents barely need to send scouts to see how we'll be lining up.
8 Posted 08/12/2011 at 09:43:05
Wing back or not, that is a 5-3-2 formation and where is our most excitibg player this season Drenthe? The old Christmas tree formation that served MacLaren so well in his final qualifying game.....hang on didn't we go out?
4-5-1 with fluid movement or a 4-4-2. We simply do not have the personnel of a 5-3-2 or a 3-5-2 if you want to call it that.
It would never work anywhere else but on a PS3
9 Posted 08/12/2011 at 10:09:30
... and other assorted references of the mid 90s.
10 Posted 08/12/2011 at 10:20:36
Most sides now play a variant of the 4-5-1 formation. 2 key components of this formation are:
- 1 player up front
- Adventurous full-backs
Now, a 3-5-2 doesn't make sense against this formation, because you essentially have 3 centre-backs marking one man... and because the wing backs give you no protection against the high wingers and adventurous full-backs common in the 4-5-1.
The reason 3-5-2 was so popular a few years back was because most sides were playing 4-4-2, and it offered an extra man in the 'engine room' (centre mid).
This benefit is now nullified as most teams play 3 in centre mid.
I agree, the players at our disposal fit this formation nicely... but in practice, in the modern day Premier League, it just doesn't make any sense, sorry.
11 Posted 08/12/2011 at 10:08:56
We should change depending on opposition, not sticking with the same old tripe regardless of who we are playing. It's boring, predictable and negative. I think Moyes' head would explode if he had to think of another formation.
12 Posted 08/12/2011 at 10:27:24
13 Posted 08/12/2011 at 10:26:13
14 Posted 08/12/2011 at 10:32:53
15 Posted 08/12/2011 at 11:16:41
16 Posted 08/12/2011 at 11:32:32
I don't think you could accuse Basle of having superior quality players to United or Napoli players of being better than City's, yet over the 4 matches played between those teams the Manc's won sweet FA ( oh the joy ).
That must've had something to do with the jiggling around of or unfamiliar tactics used by the opposition.
And surely, in any sport, the best tactic is to 'Keep 'em guessing' so if Moyes could pick one, two or even three of the formations suggested above and adapt it to the opposition then I'm convinced he would meet with a bit more success.
I still back the guy - but this rigid devotion to 4-5-1 looks to be his major weakness.
17 Posted 08/12/2011 at 11:40:22
I'd say yes, which means its an improvement on what we have.
Plenty of the genius(es) have also forgotten that you should play to your strengths and find a system that suits your players, rather than make your players suit the system I.e. Heitinga/Jagielka in midfield.
In any given match this formation would go from 3-5-2 to 5-3-2 to 3-4-3 and so on.
Once upon a time playing 4-5-1 with a shite striker like Marcus Bent would have seen you laughed off your coaching course. These days it's the blueprint for staying in the PL.
That's what I find so disappointing about Moyes. Once upon a time he was a trailblazer and we genuinely were punching above our weight.
18 Posted 08/12/2011 at 11:38:48
Yes you make a valid point that Basle won over 2 legs against a superior side so it is not quite a one off game, but i would argue if they were to play each other 20 times Basle would probably be lucky to win twice. It was unlikely to happen, yes it happend but i dont think you should get carried away and let it cloud your judgement because if you look back over the last 10 years you will see it is a freak occurance for one of the top European clubs to be knocked out so early.
I dont think tactics or formations had anything to do with Basle knocking Man Utd out, i think it it is more to do with Man Utd having an off day, being complacent like they did against Palace perhaps due to playing a young inexperienced team, lets face it Man Utd havnt exactly been brilliant, they have been scraping wins and even taking a 6-1 beating this season.
19 Posted 08/12/2011 at 12:33:59
The only downside is the lack of creativity from midfield. Three central midfielders who are all really box-to-box midfielders. It really could do with a Gascoigne type midfielder. Therein lies the problem; we don't have many options. No creativity, no wingers (why you chose a 5-3-2) and no flexibility.
You are trying to make the best of a horrible scenario and I applaud you for that, but it is Moyes' fault as to why we don't have options in our squad, it is merely a hard-working defensive set-up squad.
The other problems are injuries and form, etc. What would you do if Baines got injured? There is no replacement.
A nice idea though. It's a shame Moyes doesn't think along the same lines to try and experiment and do something different.
20 Posted 08/12/2011 at 12:48:56
So if our manager goes out with his nick-a-point set-up next time we play them, will you support it?
21 Posted 08/12/2011 at 12:46:19
10 Graham Holliday: You make a good point about the set-up against the 4-5-1s in operation. But also think of it positively. You have 2 up front against two central defenders, giving them no spare capacity. Two wing backs keeping their full backs penned in, plus two central midfielders in support, with good defensive base.
22 Posted 08/12/2011 at 12:42:37
Of course you are right in so far as greater quality will much more often than not prevail, hence my complete acceptance of the fact that without proper funding we can't expect Moyes to keep performing relative miracles.
However, what he can do is to at least try and gain an advantage by keeping the opposition on their toes with regard to his formation.
Imagine if you will Wengers pre-match preparations for Saturday.
He's going to set-up against the 100% probability of a 4-5-1 formation which concentrates it's attacks down the flanks with the primary outlet being Baines crossing into a lone striker - because that is what Moyes has done in every game we've played home and away for a long, long time.
How, he coaches the team to defend against that and counter-attack effectively is what makes him a genius and me a bloke who sits on the internet chatting bollocks about it.
But imagine how surprised old Arsene would be if Moyes sprang a 3-4-3 on him!
The only people more shocked than him would be sat in the away end.
He'd also have to adjust his formation and strategy accordingly - and that might, just might, give us enough of an edge to spring a surprise.
Well, that's what I think anyway.
23 Posted 08/12/2011 at 12:55:53
All the top teams do it and we might actually get some shots at goal
Coleman, Jags, Jonny, Baines
Barkley, Felli, Rodders
Saha, Vellios and Drenthe
Jeez that would seriously destroy team in PES
24 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:10:59
Drenthe and Barkley should be in to add a some steel to midfield at the expense of feeble Osman. We should always have 2 forwards and therefore I would go with Velios and Saha injuries permitting.
Rodwell and Felliani make up the rest of midfield adding some height as well as ground skills. Gueye and Straq should be on the bench although I would like to see more of Gueye should Drenthe's loan not be extended in January.
In my book the other players Heitinga, Cahill, Osman, Coleman and Hibbert should also kick their heels on the bench. Coleman is an enigma. A player who starts off well but tends to fade. He has basically suffered from having to cover an inept Hibbert which has restricted his forward running particularly in the second half of games.
Other than that, we cannot do anything until new money comes in and a new manager. I'm ready!!!!!
25 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:05:45
Napoli are like Everton a few seasons ago they have a very good starting 11 who can give most teams a game but they dont have the squad to be consistant over the course of a season.
The other side of the argument is what about SAF and Mancini's tactics? Surely they know every tactic in the book, but it didnt matter, they still got knocked out because on the day their team just wasnt on form.
As for Moyes changing his formation to suprise Wenger, most teams play the same formation and tactics every game because they are playing to their teams srengtths. SAF has said in the past they dont change the way they play for anyone.
It also make things more difficult if you dont have the options to make those changes. My own view on tactics and formations has always been play you best players in their best positions playing to your players/teams strengths by keeping the right balance to the side, ie dont play too many in defence and be weak up front and dont play too many up front and be weak at the back. You might say Moyes is negative and plays too many at the back but if he only has one striker to pick from or a young kid on the bench that makes his tactical options irrelavent .
26 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:23:58
27 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:28:20
Coleman Jags Distin Baines
Drenthe Saha Gueye
28 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:31:13
Or what about having big Jack in the sweeper position he could be our Sammer/Koeman?
29 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:36:03
30 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:39:06
So despite the fact they got turned over by Palace, Basel, 6-1 by City and by your estimation haven't been brilliant and have been scraping wins (and draws) you'd still be happy for us to play for a draw?
Your dedication to the Moyes cause is truly admirable!!!
31 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:45:23
32 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:46:43
If we tried that we'd get torn a new one by Arsenal.
33 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:51:37
Bily will feature and be slagged off immediately afterwards (probably deservedly) and Vellios will be left with support until 80 minutes when he gets replaced with someone else with no support.
Gueye will get injury time to get into the game and Heitinga will get booked.
And no crystal ball......
34 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:52:54
As for Palace beating Man Utd, to be fair they played quite a few unproven kids on the night, Basle as i said was a bit of a freak but Man City are a top side who if you go toe to toe with them especially if you are down to 10 men like Man Utd were there is a good chance that they will rip you apart like they did to us.
35 Posted 08/12/2011 at 13:56:02
My issue with 3-5-2 against 4-5-1 (or indeed 4-3-3) remains... you'd basically be asking Baines/Coleman to defend against two players, and be an attacking threat at the same time.
Imagine Coleman trying to play as a wing back against Assout-Ekotto and Bale for example! We'd be destroyed!
36 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:05:03
What I've took from your posts on this thread is that you're quite happy for us to never go out and try to win against a side with more money or a bigger reputation?
Can you name any scenario where you think it would be OK for little Everton to have a go?
37 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:07:43
The thing is if you have two strikers playing most sides won't commit full backs forward. If they do they leave themselves 2 on 2 at the back and open to a quick counter or ball over the top with no cover.
It's like a game of chess. Every formation will leave gaps that can be expoited. Whether you exploit them will depend as much on your mindset as your formation.
38 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:26:52
39 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:33:37
The fact we never wen't in their half from 15mins onwards was a bit of a clue we were after a draw. Or were we trying to catch their keeper of his line with a really, really long shot?
On this thread alone you have made up all kinds of excuses for us to not have a go against good sides. So I'll repeat, can you name any scenario where you think it would be O.k for little Everton to have a go?
40 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:30:50
We do not have pace to hit teams on the break and we do not commit enough players forward of the ball so we are always going backwards or sidewards giving opposing teams time to get organised.
We need the players to be encouraged and have confidence to break forward not be ultra cautious and over disciplined.
Because of our lack of pace up front and relative pace at the back (Distin and Jags) I would play a much higher line and therefore have higher numbers up the pitch.
41 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:44:56
Re: full-backs, only one tends to go forward at a time, so they would be 3 on 2, plus the minimum 1 deep lying of the centre mids - plenty of cover still allowing for the wing backs in the 3-5-2 to get doubled up.
42 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:49:22
I agree. Regardless of how we set up if players don't move off the ball and we don't try to play through teams it won't make any odds.
43 Posted 08/12/2011 at 14:51:03
If one full back stays back and a deep lying midfielder sits deep that leaves us two men over defending. It would also mean that we were very solid in the middle of defence. Occasionally getting a 2 on 1 on the wings would be a small price to pay IMO as this would tighten our defence up, stop teams coming through the middle (where we concede most of our goals) and give us a better chance of stretching sides with two up top. Especially if we played Barkley in the Cahill type role.
I think the most important thing for us is to find a system which suits the squad of players we've got. It feels like we shoehorn players into a 4-5-1 even though it stopped working when Yakubu, Arteta and Pienaar left.
44 Posted 08/12/2011 at 15:04:32
45 Posted 08/12/2011 at 15:08:07
I do remember the RS playing a 3-5-2 variant recently for a couple of games, but I didn't want my eyes to bleed so I avoided watching them.
But certainly those reasons I've outlined are the reason that the 3-5-2 is basically not played by any PL side currently.
Can't imagine it being worse than what we witnessed against Stoke though!
46 Posted 08/12/2011 at 15:29:04
I suppose you are going to tell me that SAF told his players to be defensive and negative in the final.
47 Posted 08/12/2011 at 15:37:48
I also don't remember Ferguson telling everyone they were taking a knife to a gunfight.
Our side is a lot better than you and Moyes give it credit for.
48 Posted 08/12/2011 at 15:59:59
Dammed if he does and dammed if he doesnt
Man Utd are a lot closer in quality to Barcelona than we are to Man Utd and Man City. If Moyes did play 2 up front or what ever formation you want we we be in a lot worse position and you would still be complaining.
49 Posted 08/12/2011 at 16:23:15
I agree with you.
Anyone who has been dealt the "Kenwright" card deserves sympathy.
Man City are living proof that the quality of players and amount you spend can buy success.
However the Moyesiah that came to us 10 years ago appears to have become disillusioned and defeated and that is not helping anyone.
50 Posted 08/12/2011 at 16:26:33
So do we. These fella's are England internationals were talking about here. Not League 2 yard dogs.
If Jagielka consistently ignores Moyes why doesn't he fuck him off until he learns to follow his instructions?
Very simple, your dropped, your back in when you start passing to one of ours.
Why does a player getting dropped for a few games lead to a major falling out, being transfer listed and sold for buttons??? I think you've just let slip your true opinion on how Moyes deals with players there Ian!!!
If he told Seamus to stay on the touchline and he kept drifting inside costing us possession he'd get the shepherds hook before you know it.
Why not the Jag??? Because Moyes was quite happy to see him twatting the ball as far away from our goal as is humanly possible.
"If Moyes did play 2 up front or what ever formation you want we we be in a lot worse position and you would still be complaining."
How the fuck do you know? Have you got some kind of crystal ball?
For the record I couldn't give a fuck what formation we play or even how many are upfront. It's the mentality that determines how you play, not the formation. Moyes is in footballing terms a shithouse. A latter day Howard Wilkinson. In fact it wouldn't shock me if that's who Moyes has moulded himself on.
51 Posted 08/12/2011 at 16:16:03
Well , I have always thought that 4-5-1 , or more correctly 4-4-1-1 was Mr.Moyes in nutshell, and guess what, he simply does not play ANY other way.
If we were to se 442 with diamond or 433 in the true attacking sense I firmly belive Goodison would be a more positive place to be.
But now and for how long have Moyes played the 4411 and NEVER dares to do anything else.
In Football Manager Moyes RATINGS in Defending are 18 of 20, whiloe Attacking ratings are 9 of 20, gee I wonder why that is.
All those stats at Football manager are very true to life stats on the players AND managers, and if you go and look at Anichebe and his ratings you will not be surprised
We lack the Artetas the pienaars and the Yakubus in this world, but you still choose to defend Moyes, with this rubbish squad, even though Moyes HIMSELF said many times IT WAS MY CHOICE ALONE TO SELL ARTETA.
Well, I submit that now is the time you deal with your choice Mr.Moyes..
Stop excuses as you have made them for yourself, we lack this and that, well you kind of knew that before didnt you!!! And still you stood quiet and did nothing to get a replacement for Arteta.
Either you are lying for Kenwright, which will get you dragged down to hell, or you are just plain stupid.
No other manager would DARE sell his BEST player in the last 10 years without replacements in first or right after.
52 Posted 08/12/2011 at 16:41:52
Where did we buy Jaggs from? He is a championship standard player who has some attributes such as pace, good tackling and good header of the ball, his passing is not one of his strong points which is why it took him until his mid 20's to establish himself as a PL player. The fact that Moyes has been able to get the best out of him and to use him so effectively to become an England International should be applauded not used as a stick to beat him with.
?If Jagielka consistently ignores Moyes why doesn't he fuck him off until he learns to follow his instructions??
And play who? Distin is injured. I don?t know how Moyes deals with players I am stating how other peoples minds have worked on this site and I am very confident that if Moyes dropped Jaggs which we couldn?t afford to do anyway, and we started losing games people would be calling for Moyes head for dropping an England international, I?ve read this site too long, I know how it works.
As regards what would happen if we played 2 up front:
?How the fuck do you know? Have you got some kind of crystal ball??
No but I have watched all the other teams outside the top 5 with big money play all these other formations suggested, with nice tippy tap passing and every one of them has finished below David Moyes for about 8 out of 10 years.
Most of the best attacking/passing sides have been relegated after one season. Blackpool, Hull West Brom. All praised at one stage or another for being ?a breath of fresh air for having a go?
History tends to repeat itself I have noticed.
I always thought Moyes moulded himself on SAF maybe if he had his money to spend and wages to offer things would be a bit different.
53 Posted 08/12/2011 at 16:50:30
If after 10 years of no success, people are still supporting our manager, how many more years of poor football, losing to bad teams, and rigid reliance on a formation that doesn't work because of blind favouritism to players such as Osman, Cahill and Hibbert will you keep supporting him?
To add to that question, if we lose to Tamworth, what will be the excuse?
You can't overhaul an entire playing squad, which is why managers resign and/or are sacked after a bad run.
Absolutely no malice, but want to know the answers.
54 Posted 08/12/2011 at 17:23:10
In answer to you first question: Everyone loses to bad teams look at Man Utd getting beat by Palace. The day i will stop backing the manager is the day David Moyes has money to spend on a similar level to say Spurs, Villa or Liverpool and he doesnt compete with them. If he has world class players on the bench and he is still playing Osman on the wing consistantly then he will lose my support.
55 Posted 08/12/2011 at 17:45:43
56 Posted 08/12/2011 at 17:51:37
57 Posted 08/12/2011 at 17:42:49
I see why you suggest it as at least we'd have round pegs in round holes for once but as others have pointed out is a bit dated.
I'd also worry about Heitinga, Fellaini & Rodwell all being together in that central area. Wouldn't they just get confused & get in each others way, like against Stoke only worse.
Roman- We've already had plenty of 'no shows' against lower league teams under Moyes. So I guess if we fuck up against Tamworth, you can choose any from the long list of tame excuses he's already trotted out.
58 Posted 08/12/2011 at 17:54:37
He has players that are a lot better than Osman (and Hibbo) on the bench, yet he plays them week in week out. That is why a lot of us have turned on Moyes.
I don't like hypotheticals that much either, Ian, but when the "if" in question is a real possibility (and a disastrous one at that), then serious thought needs to go into.
Here's mine: IF we lose to Tamworth, the only interaction I will have with Everton will be to check whether that ginger twat has left the club I love, at which point I will come back.
Cannot say I'll stick to it because it is almost impossible to give up a team you love so much, but it's how I feel about the situation now.
59 Posted 08/12/2011 at 17:42:36
"If he has world class players on the bench and he is still playing Osman on the wing consistantly then he will lose my support. "
I cannot recall at any time when I have agreed with anything you have said on TW. Plus we have very different opinions of Moyes, but fair play and honest answer here. Kudos.
60 Posted 08/12/2011 at 18:03:57
61 Posted 08/12/2011 at 18:17:26
62 Posted 08/12/2011 at 18:21:27
All those stats at Football manager are very true to life stats on the players AND managers, and if you go and look at Anichebe and his ratings you will not be surprised"
Post of the year!
Ten years ago Jimmy, I signed an up and coming Norwegian named Magne Hoseth for buttons then sold him on to Man U for something like 20 million. I'm sure you know him and therefore don't need me to tell you how true to life those stats were for him.
63 Posted 08/12/2011 at 18:36:35
2001?02 Division One
2002?03 Division One
2003?04 Division One
2006?07 Premier League
64 Posted 08/12/2011 at 19:00:46
65 Posted 08/12/2011 at 18:51:40
It starts with a typical back 4.
In midfield we ideally want to be putting central midfielders with no pace on the wing. But if we're forced to play proper wingers or players with pace, then we can always play them on the opposite side of the pitch than they would naturally play, just to mess with their heads..
In the middle of the park if we have a choice, we can play a full-back or a central defender as our holding midfield player, then go with 2 defensive central midfielders.
Our attacking midfield player must at all costs play a minimum of 30 yards from our centre forward and under no circumstances must more than 2 players be in the opponents box at any one time.
Forward passes are outlawed, unless the ball achieves at least 100ft in height.
In order to score a goal, we'll pass the ball sideways to lull the opposition into a false sense of security, then just when they're nodding off jags can launch it 60 yards for our striker to latch on to.
If the opposition have centre backs who are 3-4 inches taller than our striker, then we can use wide areas to whip the ball in for our lone striker to try to win a header against the oppositions taller defenders.
If we keep playing those same tactics every week we're bound to win games. If not, we can always do a financial analysis of the opposition and come to the conclusion that we never had any chance anyway.
I reckon I could get 70k / week for that.....anyone got bill's number?
66 Posted 08/12/2011 at 19:05:00
67 Posted 08/12/2011 at 19:11:39
The point is to TRY something different.
Why not just try it one week then maybe 4-3-3 another week?
I generally do believe in playing to your strengths but we are not exactly in red-hot form are we? I am not a Moyes hater but there is,in my opinion,no excuse for playing the same formation away at Old Trafford and at home to Cardiff in the cup! By this i mean ONE recognised striker. Every bloody time.
Liverpool played 3-5-2 away at Chelsea and didn't get humiliated. In fact,i think they won. The point is they adapted. Mixed things up a bit. What's so scary about that?
My own opinion is that 3-5-2 suits what we have and should be given a go. Failing that,just try something a bit different. Even if it's just for 45 minutes. Yes this system as its faults but like another poster said,every formation leaves you weak somewhere along the line.
If it fails??? Then we might end up losing a game at home to Stoke without even having ONE shot on target!
68 Posted 08/12/2011 at 21:04:49
Perhaps we may get an unexpected result against the Gunners but that is as likely as Suarez admitting he is an angel.
Yes, it is likely the usual suspects will play and play the same tactics with Moyes already conjuring up excuses.
69 Posted 09/12/2011 at 00:11:06
Thats just crazy.
70 Posted 09/12/2011 at 03:56:54
Ian, when we lost to Shrewsbury, and it wasn't long enough ago for it to have "3 or 4 seasons" to go on and be a good league side, the same fucking questions should have been asked, and weren't.
For your questions as to who is better than Osman on the bench, my original answer was everyone, but I'll indulge.
Drenthe isn't injured - Moyes has a problem with him because he doesn't track back.
Barkley reminds him of Rooney, and we all know how David feels about that boy.
Vellios is a striker, so no prizes for guessing what Moyes has against hime.
Bily plays extremely well in national colours, and hasn't proven himself on the wing (oh, and also scores specy goals) so shouldn't be considered.
Straq was the highest goal scorer in his native country, which isn't a bad league, so he's obviously bad at defending.
Gueye hasn't done anything with the 23 minutes he's been given on the pitch so he's definitely not up to the standard of the Premier League.
Now lets go retro.
Yakubu didn't score a hatrick in his comeback from injury, so he was deadwood.
AJ only ever ran to the corner flag - what a mug, it's as if the ball was down there or something.
Van der Meyde only set up a goal every time he played, which is much less than all the other players in the team.
Beattie was only a presence up front, not in the defending 18 yd box, so he's useless.
Fernandes only ever made forward passes that pentrated the box, and couldn't pass backward or sidewards to other central midfielders, so he is not worth wasting money we actually have the time on.
Oh, but Hibbo and Osman are worth contract extensions every six months.
71 Posted 09/12/2011 at 04:05:12
72 Posted 09/12/2011 at 12:46:30
"Drenthe isn't injured - Moyes has a problem with him because he doesn't track back" - What proof do you have of this? On the official site it states he has a foot injury...but it's all a conspiracy isn't it? Tin foil and everything.
"Barkley reminds him of Rooney, and we all know how David feels about that boy" What did he feel about him, apart from playing him in 36 games in a season? Also to win a court battle proving Rooney was a liar.
"Vellios is a striker, so no prizes for guessing what Moyes has against hime" - He has been playing him, and the lad has been scoring...strange point.
"Bily plays extremely well in national colours, and hasn't proven himself on the wing (oh, and also scores specy goals) so shouldn't be considered" - Are you seriouslt suggesting Bily is a star and that Moyes has dulled his shine?
"Straq was the highest goal scorer in his native country, which isn't a bad league, so he's obviously bad at defending" From what I have seen of the fat arsed fella, he is gash. he couldn't even get a contract with a Championship side.
"Gueye hasn't done anything with the 23 minutes he's been given on the pitch so he's definitely not up to the standard of the Premier League" - Doesn't look at that to me, but it's the usual from most posters, because a player isn't playing and there can be no real data, he must be brilliant but Moyes is too stubborn to play him!!
"Van der Meyde " - Fuck me......just unbelievable comment
73 Posted 09/12/2011 at 13:03:00
As i have said on another post, the players are not robots, they dont need Moyes to tell them where to stand and move to, they have a brain. It is like any walk of life, some people/players use a bit more initiative than others. If Moyes had big money to spend he would buy those players who are good at finding space with the creative flair to create and score chances.
74 Posted 09/12/2011 at 13:20:16
75 Posted 09/12/2011 at 13:26:10
76 Posted 09/12/2011 at 13:21:37
A manager sets up a team to play in the philosophy he believes is right. Moyes clearly sets up his team to be 'hard to beat' and to play a brand of football that's known in football terms as 'percentage football'. Also his style of football is heavily reliant on set piece goals and as such his teams go into matches hoping to win rather than actually going out to win.
People underestimate how important the manager actually is; with a manager who has more to his locker than percentage football, I honestly believe we'd look a pretty handy side rather than the disjointed side we look like now.
Some of the alternative suggestions of managers on here are laughable though (Holloway, Martinez, McClaren, Eriksson etc) and some managers are seriously overrated (Hiddink, Ancelotti for instance).
I just want Moyes to play his 4-5-1 differently and use the likes of Gueye and Barkley instead of persevering with an out-of-sorts Cahill and playing the likes of Osman/Bilyaletdinov in positions that don't suit them.
77 Posted 09/12/2011 at 13:31:40
It's widely accepted that Steve Bruce didn't believe in tactics per se, and look where that got him... he bought a truckload of players and ended up with a completely unbalanced side.
I'm not saying you're dismissing tactics entirely (it's not clear from your post), but I do think it's worth discussing.
The structure and balance of a side significantly affects the course of a match, and this isn't confined to a computer game.
78 Posted 09/12/2011 at 14:05:36
As i have said i do believe that tactics and formations can make a difference, but they are very overated and over-complicated by people to try to make themselves sound more knowledgeable about the game so their opinion counts for more, the real decider in the majority of games is who has the best 11 players on the field on the day and how motivated they are. The decider over the course of a season is who has the best squad of players, so basically who has the most money or spent most wisley on players.
We can not spend lots of money so we need a manager who can spend wisely which Moyes does relative to other managers.
My own view, is that football is a very simple game and as i said at the begining " My own view on tactics and formations has always been play you best players in their best positions playing to your players/teams strengths by keeping the right balance to the side, ie dont play too many in defence and be weak up front and dont play too many up front and be weak at the back. You might say Moyes is negative and plays too many at the back but if he only has one striker to pick from or a young kid on the bench that makes his tactical options irrelavent ."
79 Posted 09/12/2011 at 16:38:54
Even Arteta said that at Arsenal the instructions given by Wenger are far simpler, which allows them all to just play a more natural game. Moyes obviously has very little trust in the ability of the players he does have and the masses of instructions are probably just confusing them to the point where they don't know that the hell they can do.
Probably why most of them are international players yet don't seem to have a fucking clue about what to do when they're on the pitch for us.
80 Posted 09/12/2011 at 17:06:18
It's very easy for Wenger to not lay out too many instructions because his players are so much more better than ours and don't need to be told not to twat it upfield to nobody.
81 Posted 09/12/2011 at 18:44:12
82 Posted 09/12/2011 at 17:22:25
83 Posted 10/12/2011 at 10:15:09
Seriously, Ancellotti is overated??? Get your head together.
84 Posted 10/12/2011 at 10:32:25
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.