Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Are we good supporters?

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It's been on my mind for weeks and, after today's performance, I feel like I've got to put it to my fellow Evertonians, are we as fans any good?

Going the match this season has been horrible, the amount of negativity and tension around the ground is unbelievable! There's no singing before the game, hardly no cheering the players' names and no getting behind the team and being the twelfth man we have been in the past. I listen to people around me and they're slagging the team selection off, slagging the players before they've kicked a ball, slagging the price of the ale, the pies, the grass isn't green enough etc etc!

I think as fans and supposed 'supporters' of Everton we have a duty to sing and cheer, to get behind the team ? no matter how pissed off we are with the board, the lack of money & signings, we as fans have got to play our part in helping the team. Instead of bringing tension and animosity to the players, let's get behind them and help cheer them to victory. We need three points against Swansea so let's act like Evertonians!!!
John J Malone, Kirkby     Posted 17/12/2011 at 19:30:38

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Anthony Lamb
1   Posted 17/12/2011 at 23:25:04

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John, I think your plea is a little misplaced. The people who are at the games are not there to support their children learning to play the game ? and, dare I say, enjoy(?) their football. Neither are they at a local park supporting well-meaning and intentioned 'amateurs" in a local league.

They are there to watch and hopefully support and encourage professional players paid obscene amounts of money to apply themselves and hopefully entertain their fans with their professional skills "honed after years of professional training and opportunity". No small ask considering that these supporters have paid in the region of £25-35+ for the privilege.

Thus, when you get the dreadful absence of such application and often an inability to pass a football with accuracy, hit a ball on target with any degree of frequency, individual cases of playing for a year and not scoring a goal, downright carelessness and an inability to concentrate on the task for an hour and a half, individual cases of a player preferring the treatment table to the pitch and the stultifying boredom of the teams approach ? asking people to CHEER - SING!!!!! would seem to me a request too far.

In the present circumstances at Everton it would appear that the players and management should be made aware more than ever that what they are offering is totally unacceptable.
Robert Moore
2   Posted 17/12/2011 at 23:38:51

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Totally agree, we need that 12th man, it's helped us in the past. We had a bit of it today for around 10 mins then it died out. With 3 min to go, I could not hear the crowd; on other occasions in the past the crowd with 3 mins to go would have pulled the ball into the net.

But I also see and know why the crowd is silenced and it's the football and what looks like a lack of effort from the players. "But I don't think its' a lack of players, the players are giving it their all but some of them are just not good enough."

It's a bad time at the moment and we all have to stick together and get through this. COYB
John Malone
3   Posted 17/12/2011 at 23:50:16

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So how does that help the team Anthony? Do you go the game? Are you an Everton fan or an Everton whinger? Fair enough if the play is poor or lacklustre then let them know, but at least start the game in full support of your team!!
Alex Kociuba
4   Posted 18/12/2011 at 01:49:31

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Largely agree with Anthony. The situation we find ourselves in it should be the player's job to make the first move - lifting the fans with entertaining football > crowd react/sing > players perform better > the positive cycle continues. Tommy Graveson, and before that Ferguson used to go out their way to lift the crowd on their own. Heitinga did a little bit of that too but not so much lately (basque bicycles comments). The most likely candidate at the minute is probably Drenthe.
Alex Kociuba
5   Posted 18/12/2011 at 01:58:10

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Funny how Ferguson, Graveson and Drenthe all happen to play the more entertaining football as well as their punching the air at the crowd style.
Jimmy Sørheim
6   Posted 18/12/2011 at 02:21:36

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You have a point there ALex. I miss Duncan.... Please come back Duncan, make a comeback as a player!!!!
I bet you would outscore these current players by a lot even at 40.
Karl Jones
7   Posted 18/12/2011 at 08:47:18

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The cynical sale of Arteta (after Pienaar in January) to Arsenal after all season tickets were sold has destroyed morale not only among supporters, but also players it seems.

We've become a side that accepts defeat far to easily. Two years ago, we would never have been beaten in that game by Stoke, and to not even have a shot on target says it all really.

The football at home has been abysmal and at times embarrassing

Christine Foster
8   Posted 18/12/2011 at 09:18:16

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John, l think it's unrealistic to expect fans to falsely enthuse a board, a manager and a team that has and continues to serve up the most soul destroying cocktail of unfathomable team selection, negative tactics and above all else, no passion, hope or enjoyment.

Why do you think supporters are so fed up? You cannot blithely ignore the board issues for they have undermined the team and the support base.

Everton fans haw always drawn the line at negative play. For those old enough do you remember the showers of cushions that used to rain down in disgust from the stands?

Fans go to watch games these days in hope of seeing change, seeing commitment and being entertained, winning would be the icing on the cake.

Your comments would indicate that there are far more vocal and unhappy supporters than just those who walk with BU

Supporters need encouragement to support. Chicken and egg,, perhaps if we could see ambition, desire and players being played to win, you just might get your Christmas wish.

Btw, no Everton fan deserves to be called a whinger, just because they voice their justifiable concern does not make them a whinger just as those who blindly refuse to criticize the club doesn,t make them a better supporter.
Phil Rodgers
9   Posted 18/12/2011 at 10:09:51

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"l think it's unrealistic to expect fans to falsely enthuse a board,a manager and a team that has and continues to serveup themostsoul destroying cocktail of unfathomable team selection, negative tactics and above all else, no passion, hope or enjoyment."

Could not agree more with this.
Brian Waring
10   Posted 18/12/2011 at 10:12:28

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John, the football is shite, the tactics are shite, we are boring to watch, we haven't got a pot to piss - in.

Not too much to shout about really, is there?
Derek Thomas
11   Posted 18/12/2011 at 10:30:03

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We Have many problems: The Medium / Longterm problem(s) Board, Money, business plan, Ground etc. But these are off the field problems and while they do effect the on the field issues in a medium to longterm manner, they have nothing to do with the short term on the field shite football.

That is down to Moyes.

Guyere looked OK... and even better when he came inside.Not strictly regimented, (assumes cod scottish german accent) c u jimmy, ye VILL stay on za wing

Strac did enough to start on Wed night.

Drenthe frightened the life out of them, defenders hate being run at...START.

Fellaini and Neville both have a tendency to pass sideways to each other. One must go. I vote Pip.

One thing I noticed, it probably happened more than twice. Fellaini in the 1st half and Osman ( did ok, goal not withstanding ) in the 2nd half.

MF was on the edge of the box, the ball as obviously coming into the box just infront of the 6yd line...(and it did) he didn't move, he had time and space to go...ordered by Moyes not to commit??? and thus not be found out if it broke down.

Osman, 5yds or so outside the box gets the ball, space infront of him ( Me, run at them ffs ) Leon? passes sideways...ordered by Moyes not to commit??? in case he is found wanting if it broke down.

Not Carpe Diem, sieze the day Carpe Jugulem...Go for the throat.
Fran Mitchell
12   Posted 18/12/2011 at 11:53:02

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12th man is a myth.

The atmosphere at the Noucamp aint blistering, due in part to the large amount of tourists watching the game, due in part to the big stadium.

Messi doesn't seem to mind.
Gavin Ramejkis
13   Posted 18/12/2011 at 09:44:15

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Utter tripe, I go to the game and have done for decades. The football on display is shite ? no beating around the bush ? and lacks any entertainment value, nor has it made me feel anything to smile about when leaving the ground for some time.

Using your logic, John, you could equally say it's the supporters responsibility to get shut of the useless board that fail the club daily, weekly, monthly and annually, pity the sheeple and those that can't be arsed or believe the lies.
Alan Clarke
14   Posted 18/12/2011 at 14:41:00

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We are utter fucking shite and there are 7 or 8 players out there who aren't fit to wear the shirt. No fan in their right mind would cheer on a performance like yesterdays or any other this season. Get this image of Sky's definition of a football fan out of your head. This '12th man' bullshit is exactly that. It's true, we only sing when we're winning but that's the same for every other fan of any other club.

Right now, I'd be better off chanting at the big pile of neighbour's dog shit sitting on my lawn. It's more use, at least it will help fertalise the grass.
John Malone
15   Posted 18/12/2011 at 14:36:51

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Oh, ere we go... Gavin the politician 'I know everything about everything' Ramejkis!

''Using your logic, John you could equally say it's the supporters' responsibility to get shut of the useless board that fail the club daily, weekly, monthly and annually, pity the sheeple and those that can't be arsed or believe the lies.''

No that's what you seem to believe supporters' responsibility is. Fact is I go the match to support my team and help cheer them to victory, I do not go to get on their backs at the first opportunity when threy are trying! If they're not trying or they are shite then yes I let them know, but it seems as if us as a crowd have lost it.

AEK Athens came for a Europa League game a couple of years back and got tonked but their fans were unbelievable, never stopped singing throughout. We could clearly see in the last couple of home games the players needed a lift, a roar to find that goal, but, instead of raising the roof and sucking that ball into the net, we choose through our hands in the air to point fingers. We need to look in the mirror, look at the atmosphere Stoke create ? and they're playing hoof ball!!
Mick Wrende
16   Posted 18/12/2011 at 15:24:43

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I have never read such shite on here and now John Malone is comparing us to some fucking Greeks. Thirty five quid to watch that dross yesterday and now it is my fault for not cheering the so called team on. The lowest league gate since Smith should tell you thick heads something and don't hold your breath ? it won't be lower on Wednesday.
Derek Turnbull
17   Posted 18/12/2011 at 15:46:28

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John Malone-did you start off any songs yourself?

If not then you are to blame as much as everyone else.

If you want an atmosphere you have to make an effort.

But with our fans, whether its singing or protesting, they would rather make up excuses than get their balls out and do something about it themselves.
Gavin Ramejkis
18   Posted 18/12/2011 at 15:41:14

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John suggest you give walking on your hands a rest ? you are talking out of your arse claiming some moral highground blaming silent pissed off fans or those who have already voted with their feet as responsible for the piss poor football on display. Your only response to a fair critique is a half arsed attempt at playground "ooh not the know it all" as opposed to your "I go to the game" better than thou utter bullshit. I used to pity idiots but I genuinely believe you must be one of those gullible bastards that fall for chairman Bill's bullshit and cheer his smug mug when its rolled on the big screens at GP.
Peter Laing
19   Posted 18/12/2011 at 16:09:16

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John, direct your comments at the likes of myself ? somebody who I suspect you would rate even worse than the whiners at the match that are evidently pissing you off. I have stopped going this season, John, I too got fed up of moaning and whining and wishing I was somewhere else with the shite tactics, football and lies / drivel from the boardroom. I wont be back at Goodison until I see something to cheer about, and before you have a go, I'm not a fair-weather supporter.
Kevin Hudson
20   Posted 18/12/2011 at 15:39:44

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Everton's home supporters are a lazy, glowering, often ungrateful lot that are frequently detrimental to the team's morale & confidence.

Our away following, however, puts the Goodison faithful to shame.

We are very good at getting on the player's backs & letting them know how pissed off we are; there is nothing wrong with this, and I believe this occasionally works to shake them up. But at times, it also pressures them into playing desperate football that compounds the initial frustration.

It is a symbiotic relationship, but I think our fans need to look at themselves, as I feel the INITIAL surge should come from us, in motivating the players more effectively from the off.

Inane happy-clapping isn't our style. The personality of Evertonians is uniquely derived from both our history & local environment; but I absolutely despise fans who JUST sit back, eliciting litlle other than anger & cynicism.

Justifying their refusal to give even a little more of themselves with the piss-weak arguments of finance (nb: match ticket price/ player's wages), or the fallacy that if the performance is drab, they nonetheless have a RIGHT to be entertained, and they'll sit there rigid, save for periodically abusing either the ref, or one or more of our own players.

Goodison is a tough crowd to play for. We need to make it tougher to play against. I believe we can & should inspire our players better, rather than pessimistically waiting to be inspired first.
Peter Laing
21   Posted 18/12/2011 at 16:16:09

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Great team talk Kevin, can you have a word with David Moyes and Bill Kewnright whilst your at it lambasting the supporters as I'm sure your motivational approach will see us shooting up the league in no time at all.
Mike Hayes
22   Posted 18/12/2011 at 16:08:40

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I never go to the games any more without feeling dread. Dread at the team Moyes puts out, dread at the play, and dread at the opposition when they score the easiest goal of their performances in their history.

Teams who have never won at Goodison start winning; players who have never scored in their careers come and score. Maybe Hibbert should go to a Prem team, come back, and HE will score!!

Until Moyes starts playing positive, plays exciting players like Drenthe, and gets rid of the "love of the club" players, I'll forever be filled with dread before every game. I have no confidence in Everton FC as a whole this season and dread the coming seasons.

Makes no difference whether Moyes has money or not, it's down to tactics; his unfortunately have slipped down to a Sunday League mentality which may be best suited to him. Either sort it out now or go.
Andy Callan
23   Posted 18/12/2011 at 16:26:40

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Are you fuckin' serious.......?!?!?!?

The reality is that WE'RE PISSED OFF WITH IT ALL.

It's fuckin' shite week-in-week-out and we're bored of it.

I travel a total of 450 miles to get the game and back; if I want to call them fuckin' useless I will do thanks.

It's a bit rich not to call us 'Evertonians' when we're all sitting there in the freezing cold again, watchin' a pile of fuckin' shite on the pitch. The reason we're there is 'coz we love Everton and we're ALL entitled to an opinion.
Kevin Hudson
24   Posted 18/12/2011 at 16:22:01

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Do you think the Stygian gloom approach works better then, Peter?

The board, the manager, the players & the "SUPPORTERS," have to collectively pull their fingers out.
Gavin Ramejkis
25   Posted 18/12/2011 at 17:07:16

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Kevin, care to indulge us all with a drop in verbosity and some cold hard facts showing the 12th player effect in action?

The fact people still turn up paying their hard-earned, and some travelling significant miles to do so, shows far more "loyalty" or whatever it is this poor missive wants from the supporters.
John Malone
26   Posted 18/12/2011 at 16:52:36

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Thank you Kevin Hudson, and to you lot who are saying the play has been dreadful ? it hasn't been that bad, we just haven't taken our chances. We should've beat QPR, Villa, Man United, Liverpool, Stoke and yesterday against Norwich. We played by far the better stuff and deserved more.

Now I'm not saying we been playing well but be fair and think back to those games I've mentioned. What is the point of going to the game full of dread? Why bother bringing that to a game? It doesn't do anything to help the team, does it? The fans should be encouraging the team before kick off. The fans are people who love the club ? not the players they are just employees!
Chris Butler
27   Posted 18/12/2011 at 17:15:44

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I once thought this but I believe it's ridiculous to suggest any fan should get behind a club that shows no respect to its fans. Ticket prices are ridiculous at Goodsion considering we're awful, we play awful football, we have awful players and the view in many seats is awful. We don't even have a proper striker, we don't have a player capable of passing the ball forwards, so what exactly do we have to sing about?

I won't be going to Everton games until Moyes goes, I can't support a club that is destroying itself from within. I can't support a manager who makes decisions that make no logical sense to most sane people. Our attendances have dropped significantly this year, which shows that fans are angry about the way things are going.
Phil Walling
28   Posted 18/12/2011 at 17:19:29

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Just good to see that they`ve got someone to replace Rossy who doesn`t refer to us `unproper` Evertonians as `drunken knobheads` just because we are not presently full of joy.

Welcome to the madhouse, Mr Malone!
Phil Walling
29   Posted 18/12/2011 at 17:42:54

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My 13 year-old grandson tells me I`m an `improper`Evertonian rather than an `unproper` one.!
I`ve just told him for the money I`ve spend on following the club,I`ll be whatever kind I like.....Just don`t tell me I`m not an Evertonian!
Kevin Hudson
30   Posted 18/12/2011 at 17:22:59

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Gavin, I'll take my (apparent) verbosity over your juvenile addiction to the "Gollum," and "Grinch," references - any day.

Whilst it may not be "factually proven," that the 12th man has ANY effect, you can't find me one player who would dismiss the crowd's effect on performance.

Nobody's questioning the 'loyalty,' of match-going fans, particularly those who LOVE to begin Saturday posts with the phrase: "Just back from the game." (!) The point of this (allegedly) "poor missive," is simply to ask the fans to offer a little more support. That's all.

(And no..it comes as no suprise, that even this simple plea is confronted by predictably dismissive remarks from ToffeeWeb's moody fraternity..)

Oh, and Peter Laing: You say that the "moaning and whining," at Goodison was an additional reason for you deciding to STOP going the match. If this IS correct, then why visit ToffeeWeb were the whingers are in the majority..?

(Ie: I think you're full of shit).

You clarify: "I won't be back at Goodison until I see something to cheer about, and before you have a go, I'm not a fair-weather supporter."

(I don't buy that either).
John Keating
31   Posted 18/12/2011 at 17:46:58

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John shouldn't your piece be called " Are They Good Players " ??
Isn't the onus on the players to entertail us ? To give us value for the money we pay them each week ?
If we performed our work the way they,ve performed theirs this season we'd be sacked, they have the luxury of their multi-million pound contracts whether they perform/play or not.
When I see the likes of Bily strolling around not giving a flying fuck about Everton Football Club and picking up a shed load of money I think I, and others have every right to slag them off and to insinuate that doing that is not being an "Evertonian " is a load of shite.
Chris Taylor
32   Posted 18/12/2011 at 18:03:31

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Kevin, well in mate. I'm with you all the way. True what you say about our away support as well.
Kunal Desai
33   Posted 18/12/2011 at 18:21:38

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The supporters are the only asset the club now has....just about! Should this shit continue over the next year to eighteen months then I think the numbers will start to diminish and many more will just stop attending home matches. Moyes and Kenshite are sucking out the lifeblood of this once great club.
Dennis Stevens
34   Posted 18/12/2011 at 18:25:08

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I'm not sure whether as supporters we really have any duties, not even to be long-suffering, which as Evertonians we most certainly are. I suspect though that were it not out of a sense of duty many more may have cut back on their attendances by now. It's all a bit grim & seems likely only to get grimmer.
James Stewart
35   Posted 18/12/2011 at 18:31:07

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Football is entertainment and quite frankly under Moyes's there is very little emphasis on that!

It's hard for a crowd to get vocal when the team is set up so negatively.
Mick Wrende
36   Posted 18/12/2011 at 19:06:25

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Am I not right in thinking the Everton fans who go to the away games also go to the home games so why Kevin Hudson @20 do they not make the same noise at Goodison -maybe because they can put up with the defensive shite we produce on the road but at home maybe would like some entertainment, some football, some attempts at goal and even now and again some actual goals.
And John Malone @26 dont fucking say we have been unlucky - we are lucky in fact to have won the games we have - look at Fulham where Zamora missed that absolute sitter or Blackburn where we were totally outplayed but stole it with that dodgy last minute penalty.
We are playing shite pure and simple and to blame the fans is the most stupid comment I have ever read on here.
Kevin Sparke
37   Posted 18/12/2011 at 19:36:35

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Christine - I remember the cushions been chucked in the late 1970s. Gordon Lee was the manager and we we'd just gone 4th in the league (from second)

I wish we were as 'shit' now as I'd convinced myself we were then...
Matt Traynor
38   Posted 18/12/2011 at 19:36:41

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John #26, you say "What is the point of going to the game full of dread?"

Tell that to your Moyesiah.
Dennis Stevens
39   Posted 18/12/2011 at 19:54:29

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Hear! Hear! Matt.
Phil Rodgers
40   Posted 18/12/2011 at 20:26:32

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When was the last time anyone enjoyed watching Everton? I work in retail and live in Rotherham so don't get to many but watching them on the net or tv is painful enough. The last game I went to was west ham at home last season and we were well and truly outplayed by the bottom of the league. It was freezing and it the day itself cost me hundred quid. I have 2 kids under 2 years old and people keep buying them Everton gear. In a way I don't want to put them through it cos its an absolute chore being an Everton fan.
Kevin Hudson
41   Posted 18/12/2011 at 20:48:43

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Mick Wrende,

Some obvious reasons to explain our fantasic away support:

# They're out-numbered by the home fans, and therefore want to make their presence known to our players.

# They're all on a jolly, and feel less self-conscious away from the choking misery of the "Grand Old Lady."

# They're some of the most loyal, committed supporters in the world, who demonstrably support the club through thick & thin.
Peter Laing
42   Posted 18/12/2011 at 21:01:29

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Keep believing Kevin, turn the lights on the way out lad.
Kevin Hudson
43   Posted 18/12/2011 at 21:18:12

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As opposed to bitching on the Internet, Peter?
Jim Lloyd
44   Posted 18/12/2011 at 21:10:58

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John Malone, I'm not sure how long you've been going to Goodison but I imagine its a fair old time. Kevin Hudson, you speak with such authority that imagine you have also been going to Goodison for many years.

I can agree with you John in part. Sometimes Goodison Park is like a morgue and sometimes the fans howl at the players and occasionally, it's uncalled for. Certainly it doesn't help the team to produce better football (I was going to say "to play the type of football we are crying out for" but that is many miles down the road.)

However, John, we are not as bad a bunch of supporters as you think we are. If we are given some hope (and in my view that's what we desperately need and that is non existent at the moment).

I started going the match in 1959-60, just as the revolution was about to happen when Johnny Carey was our manager. The players he brought in had us getting to the match, 2 hours before kickoff and we couldn't wait for it to start. In the early sixties the football was magical, with a forward like of Ring, Collins,Young, Vernon and (I think Lill but just forget at the minute) anyway 50000 to seventy thousand supporters, nearly every home game. I don't know if you were around when "The Goodison Roar" was written about in all the sports pages. We sang a lot then and we roared our team throughout the game..but we also gave em some stick at times. WE were as good as any team in the coun try and it was a pleasure to watch our team demolish opponents but, at the most it last just on ten years and then we had the wilderness times form theearly seventees to the early eighties and, apart from the wonderful few years under Kendall, we've gone back to those wilderness times.

Moyes has done reasonably well in getting the team to 5th 6th and 7th and during some of those seasons some of the games actually got me bouncing but, generally speaking, I think he is a defensive minded manager and won't ever produce the type of football I want to see us play. I see no point in discussing whether he should be sacked or not, he won't be as long as Kenwright is Chairman...I was going to say in charge but I don't think he is. I think Green and Earl are.

Anyway, sorry about the history book stuff now to my point. We've had getting on for 20 years of slipping downhill intersperced with what we thought was hope but it was mirages for us. No wonder that many (well a fair number anyway) are staying away, including me. I've given up, so has my mate and his son, as has my other mate, his wife and theuir daughter. Even our benighted bretheren over the park, have been heard to boo their darlings on occcasion.

In other words we need hopwe and there is none. Now Kevin I don't mind you spouting greek to me (quite like greek mythology) but I think you are bang out of order by calling other blues, Who on earth do you think you are? Mind you, I wouldn't mind coming again if you were prepared to lead us in community singing but that's only going to happen when Kenwright goes.
John Malone
45   Posted 18/12/2011 at 21:39:28

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Mick 36 who is blaming the fans? I asked a question are we performing as a crowd and do we have a duty to encourage the team. No one can say they are happy with the league position or current performances but in my opinion us the everton crowd could be better at home. I've seen much worse sides under Mike Walker, Walter Smith, Howard Kendall get better encouragement and outright support than this team this year!
Michael Mcloughlin
46   Posted 18/12/2011 at 22:07:19

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Well the latest from the NSNO web site is that the take over is happening in January.
Doesnt mentoin source who the takeover people are or any other information. Yet they state that the Price was £150 million. Now why would they know the price but not the prospective owners ??? A puzzle I think
Mick Gallagher
47   Posted 18/12/2011 at 22:06:50

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The crowd livened up when there was something worth cheering. Drenthe came on and made a difference running at players and that in turn made the noise go up. The players have to give the fans something to shout about and they will respond.
Kevin Hudson
48   Posted 18/12/2011 at 22:29:09

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The supporters have to give the players encouragement and then THEY will respond.

It's a two-way street.
Jimmy Sørheim
49   Posted 18/12/2011 at 22:10:31

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I think fans need something to cheer for. The tactics and player picks are poor at home, and it stays that way.
What needs to happen anyway is that fans inside start singing right before kick-off, no matter what you feel, that is the normal way of backing your team, wheter you are good or bad.
During the game is another thing, if the players are not performing then it becomes difficult. There still needs to be a competition between the home fans and away fans. That is the way I look at it, the fans that win in the stands also win on the pitch.
That much I find is true.
Dont think of it as supporting Everton, think of it like winning the fans war against the away side. That will make it better for the players on the pitch as well.

All this will fade once we start scoring early in games again, and for that to happen then Moyes needs to make changes, Drenthe needs to start the games, as should Straqualursi. Cahill and Neville should not play from the start, and perhaps Saha needs a brealk as well.
Derek Turnbull
50   Posted 18/12/2011 at 22:39:45

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Jim Lloyd #44, re the singing when Carey was manager, what song swere going then?I believe we done the Keep right on song then how did that go?
Kevin Hudson
51   Posted 18/12/2011 at 22:46:16

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Jim Lloyd,

If I'm "bang out of order," for taking issue with rigor mortis fans who either:

# Simply can't be arsed to get behind the team at Goodison. Who make little effort to TRY and influence the players, choosing instead to sit there expectantly. Getting angry when nothing happens, but REFUSING to self-assess their own pathetic support for the team.

# Choose to stay away because the aesthetic quality of our play leaves a lot to be desired. Or the current form isn't up to Playstation standard. Or Heaven-sent from Parnassus - home of the Muses.

# Hit the Internet on a daily basis to lobby for the removal of the most consistent manager we've had in a generation.

# Or, as in one recent & memorable case, totally blank the club on playing on live television, instead opting to play "Batman," on the X-Box, before visiting an Evertonian website to tell the world all about it.

....Then guilty as charged.
Jim Lloyd
52   Posted 18/12/2011 at 23:35:20

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Derek,

"Go home you bums" was a favourite when we beat Man U...regularly and Banks of the royal blue mersey seems vaguely familiar. I don't seem to remember "keep right on", think that was Leeds but either way, I think we've reached thwe end of the road.

Kevin, you're either young or not thinking to clearly. You have said that our support is poor but you haven't, as far as I can see, analysed why that is...may have missed that bit. So tell me what reasons you think it might be the case that, somehow, we are worse supporters than I think we are. It should prove interesting. Are we, as Evertonians, given an implant at birth which says "you can only support the blue boys well, when you are at away grounds? Do we have a gene that binds us together to sit and pay 25 -35 quid and have fun being miserable?

Obviously, many have slipped the net and escaped with a positive outlook, as they still believe, as you obviously do, that somehow we can pretend we are watching a football fit to be called by the motto of our club" and would indeed grace Parnassus. When, being a pessimist, what I've been watching for years are scenes steeped in stygian gloom with the occasional glimpse of daylight before being dragged back to Hades. I would hope that we might one day aspire tobe the standard beares that our Corinthian forefathers wanted us to be.

I'm not sure that castigating Evertonians who don't live up to your enthusiastm will alter what is happening at Goodison Park. In my humble opinion. Each chweer prolongs the day that Kenwright stays and the clubs sinks even more. The real trouble that I found and why I stopped going, is that I lost hope of us ever playing any better than we do now. My fear is that it'll get worse. I hold my hat up to you and salute you as a better supporter than I. I wish you good luck
Jason Lam
53   Posted 19/12/2011 at 06:40:40

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1. It's quite expensive to visit Goodison when I'm posted halfway across the world.

2. It's quite difficult to motivate myself to support those in power who evidently (emailgate) takes us for granted and fools.

3. It's quite difficult to cheer Moyes' dour, predictable football. You know, there was a time when we played like Everton.
Andy Codling
54   Posted 19/12/2011 at 07:25:47

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Utter Bollocks Kevin, I would imagine 50 grand a week + should be more than enough to motivate a team of footballers without them having to rely on the people that they are there to ENTERTAIN.
How do you label someone our most succesfull manager of a generation when the man has been in the job over ten years and won fuck all?( finishing fourth and a cup final appearance is not success). I can only imagine that you are very young and have yet to witness any success, unfortunately under Moyes you will have a fucking long wait!
Stephen Kenny
55   Posted 19/12/2011 at 07:43:49

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I would disagree strongly with Kevin and his description of Goodison being a "choking Morgue".

The style of play and the type of players we have been watching for the majority of Moyes reign has not been great to be fair. All Evertonians have high standards.

I sit in the LG and more often than not you can feel that people are waiting to get going, they just need to see some spark or other on the pitch, this rarely comes.

Theres things clever players do to get the crowd going. A big tackle, bit of handbags etc, none of our players have got the nous to do this. Ask anyone who was there what happened when Neville ploughed Ronaldo? All of a sudden things turned very, very loud.

I've seen what can happen when the crowd gets behind the side, but I've also seen what happens when we get something to sing about, it's a two way street.

There's a myth, probably started by the R/S that certain grounds are constantly singing and chanting and are genuinely the 12th man. Having been to most grounds in the league over the past 5 seasons it's not true. I've been to Villa every year for the past 7 I think. There's a sign up that says "Hiolte end the 12th man" I haven't heard tthem sing a song yet.

Most are as quiet as a mouses birthday party and Goodison still puts most of them to shame. Only Stoke have impressed me recently and that was because they were all goin mental for a throw by the halfway line.

The main reason IMO why Goodison is not louder more often is that are most vocal partisan support sit's nowhere near the away fans. That means theres no banter or baiting which riles people up. More often than not I can't even hear what's being sung by the away fans.
Derek Turnbull
56   Posted 19/12/2011 at 09:26:04

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Jim Lloyd, was Go home you bums to Auld Langs Ayne (sp?) ? Did we also do the Lambeth Walk or Heart of oak?
Kevin Hudson
57   Posted 19/12/2011 at 09:44:34

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Your tiresome refrain about finance & entertainment going hand-in-hand, holds no merit with me, Andy.

Also, I'm not quite sure why you mis-quote me. I labelled Moyes as the most "consistent," manager in a generation, and have repeatedly pointed out why.

Stephen, you make some valid points, but I echo John's premise that the supporters could do a little more.
Jim Lloyd
58   Posted 19/12/2011 at 10:19:33

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Derek, Yes, it was to Auld Lang Syne...mind you, we used to regularly beat all comers to the ground so it was a "fond farewell" to the away fans. Can also remember singing "We Love You at Man U's ground, and the Mancs hadn't even heard of singing then! Mind you we got tonked...think it was 5 1.
Well said Stephen Kenny and I totally agree.
Stephen Kenny
59   Posted 19/12/2011 at 11:09:53

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Kevin at times I agree, I thought we should have tried to lift the team on Saturday when our play tailed off a bit.

But give us something to sing about and we will, remember when we beat Boro to go to Wembley. We were ALL singing on County hours and hours later!!!
Chris Butler
60   Posted 19/12/2011 at 12:47:53

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Where this idea our away support is amazing in terms of vocal support comes from, I don't know. In my opinion, while we are are great in terms of numbers, in terms of noise, I don't think we're that great.

Since 2009, I believe our support home and away has gone quieter, it's just down to the rubbish football we play. I agree few grounds can match Everton v Liverpool on derby day but most games are very quiet.
Mark Yeomans
61   Posted 19/12/2011 at 14:42:25

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ouch kev....your referring to me aye....;)
Ian Briggs
62   Posted 19/12/2011 at 19:19:04

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One thing that certainly doesn't help is that we run out to Z-Cars which no-one knows the words to, and in any case the words bear no meaning to our club. It's a bit depressing that a club residing in the great City of Liverpool, the birthplace of the Beatles, can't find a suitable song to lift the ground before the match. My opinion is to choose one of the Beatles' songs and play it just before kick off.
Steve Higham
63   Posted 19/12/2011 at 20:43:42

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Chris #60 like you go home and away and I agree that we always turn up in numbers. The reason we dont have much to shout about is because of the style of play/tactics. It has got worse over the last couple of seasons.

Always look forward to going the game but lately as soon as the team is announced I just feel depressed. How the likes of Neville gets in the team ahead of Barkley I just cannot fathom.
Steven Connor
64   Posted 19/12/2011 at 21:53:37

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The away support ...hmmm. Now there's a conundrum.

I regularly go to our away games in the London / South East area and as stated there's no doubting the passion, commitment and numbers of a majority of Everton's away following.... but there's a significant minority who are fucking embarrassment.

Last week at Arsenal, a fella in the row behind me was puking his ring up from about ten minutes in, proceeded to do so about another three of four times before being ejected. Throughout the game, there was the 'usual' collection of racist pricks screaming abuse at all and sundry ... and this is never a one-off.

In the last two years alone I've sat in the away end with 'fellow' Evertonians who spent the game singing 'Hitler was an Evertonian' at Spurs ....gangs of horrible rat-faced spotty teens shouting 'Nigger' into strangers' faces at London Bridge station, coked up loons fighting amongst themselves at West Ham.

In fact probably the worst experience I've ever had at a game was at Arsenal about three years ago when some rabid racist prick spent the whole game screaming vile abuse, whilst encouraging (presumably his son) a kid of about 11 to join in... which he did. When challenged, he then threatened everyone around him with a further volley of abuse...

I'd like to say these are islotated instances but I pretty much come away from Everton away games shamefaced at the pissed up behaviour of 'fellow' scousers and Evertonians. So I'm not sure they should be used as the benchmark for home supporters because, if we all carried on like that, then Goodison would be closed down.
Ste Murphy
65   Posted 20/12/2011 at 11:43:24

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I can see where you coming from John. However, I think people are just fed up at the moment. Sometimes it's hard to get behind your team when we are not playing well.

When you refer to "good supporters" You only have to look at the support we take to every away game. Just because we don't sing doesn't mean you can question "are we good supports". It's probably me moaning about the price of the pints. However, we have changed to Fosters now. I still think they should serve Stella though. Then you won't need to see Tony Hibbert score to see a riot.
Richard Tarleton
66   Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:03:55

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Our duty is simple, Chairman Bill says pay up and shut up and when his face appears on the giant screen, cheer loudly.
Matt Traynor
67   Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:06:43

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Richard, #66, topical but maybe we should refer to him as Kim Jong Bill?
Karl Meighan
68   Posted 20/12/2011 at 23:25:15

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It would be nice if the players earnt there money then maybe i would start applauding. I find it hard to clap and applaud any player on 40 grand a week plus who cannot work a goalkeeper when 20 yards out but instead hits it ten yards over the top, and i hear many people applauding that kind of shite which i find fucking amazing.

Just as points have to be earned so does the support of the crowd, blind loyalty will just make players even more comfortable which as were seeing will just mean results will suffer and get worse imo.
Colin Wainwright
69   Posted 23/12/2011 at 17:49:55

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Ian @62. I love the Beatles mate, but that is the worst suggestion I have ever heard. Z Cars is fuckin amazing.

Saying that, Taxman might make Philip Green shit his pants.

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