Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Moyes to Rodgers

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I want to make it clear that, up until this season, I had always been a big fan of David Moyes. I appreciate all he has done for us over the last decade and truly believe he has moved us on as a club.

However, this season has seen: the over-use of the 4-5-1 formation, the over-use of the hoofball tactics, the constant picking of players well out of form, the unexplainable substitutions, the playing of players out of position... and I could go on and on and on.

Now I have read countless amounts of ?Moyes Out? posts on various websites and rightly so all the Moyes supporters have said ?But who would replace him?? At this point you will get the anything from Martin O?Neill, Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce ? who are all unable to work effectively on a tight budget ? to Jose Mourinho, which is just absurd. My point being that you could see a problem with most of the suggested appointments. Now, after watching last night's game against Swansea and admiring the football they play, I?d like to firmly place Brendan Rodgers at the top of my wish list!

It has been widely acknowledged that Swansea keep the ball as well as any team in the Premier League (they had more possession at Anfield than Liverpool). They are all comfortable on the ball and their movement off the ball is excellent. Brendan Rodgers and his coaching staff appear to have the ability to coach players ? who would probably be seen as average at best ? to pass and move and play excellent football. This is something David Moyes and his coaching staff have not been able to do... or do not want to do. This goes a long way to proving you don?t need a big transfer budget to get the ball down and play attractive football.

Now... close your eyes and imagine Everton playing the Brendan Rodgers style football with our players. Howard rolling the ball out to Jagielka, who passes the ball in to Fellaini?s feet. Fellaini turns and exchanges passes with Rodwell before passing the ball out wide to Drenthe. Drenthe plays a one-two with Baines and is now in behind the fullback. Drenthe moves into the box committing the defender before pulling the ball back to Saha who steps over the ball and Donovan strides onto the ball and strokes it home.

Ladies and gentleman ? I give you Brendan Rodgers... Everton Manager!!!


Greg Lambden, Hampshire     Posted 22/12/2011 at 08:57:05

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Richard Dodd
1   Posted 22/12/2011 at 13:55:26

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Tony Mowbray tried that with WBA and got them relegated. With limited resources, pragmatism is the order of the day and Davey is the past master. Let`s wait until we`ve got more `quality` before we go back to `fancy football`.

Swansea will be relegated,you see!
James Flynn
2   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:02:02

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Nope. Rather be upset we don't have a predator than switch out Moyes.
Col Noon
3   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:05:52

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Were is this "quality" you speak of coming from Doddy? after we have sold our best young "quality" players to finance them you mean. Get real, until we get substancial investment we will continue to tread water. Loan players of a decent standard are all that we will see come (and go). Hardly a basis to build a quality side is it?
Chris Keightley
4   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:16:40

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Doddy, please explain in laymen's terms where we will get this quality from ? and how!

Plucking words from the air is easy... look! ? "We will sign Messi" ? No we won't!! It's boring now even you should know that we do not have the resources...

As for fancy football I can barely remember a match this past decade where 'fancy' and 'Everton' go side by side. Your positivity is only refreshing when backed up with proper evidence; when it's not, it's purely and simply crap!!
Greg Lambden
5   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:19:28

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You miss my point Richard. If Swansea can play attractive football with their standard of player then what could Brendan Rodgers do with our players...! In the absence of our billionaire owner we need to progress without spending money.
Tony J Williams
6   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:20:40

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"Now... close your eyes and imagine Everton playing the Brendan Rodgers style football with our players. Howard rolling the ball out to Jagielka, who passes the ball in to Fellaini?s feet. Fellaini turns and exchanges passes with Rodwell before passing the ball out wide to Drenthe. Drenthe plays a one-two with Baines and is now in behind the fullback. Drenthe moves into the box committing the defender before pulling the ball back to Saha who steps over the ball and Donovan strides onto the ball and strokes it home"

Don't need to close your eyes and imagine Greg because we had attack like that last night....well up until the shot on target.

It was one of our better passing games last night (until Neville was involved) and we more than matched Swansea, had more possession, had more attempts on goals and corners.

What was interesting, was that Swansea played exactly the same as we do, looked pretty up until the final third than ran out of ideas. They also had everyman back for their corners, so realistically apart from the tippy tap passing amongst the defenders, nothing new to add to what we do now.

Lowest scoring team in the Premiership and now won away from home....great managing that
Mark Murphy
7   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:27:03

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We played them off the park for most of last night - we just couldnt score. It wasn't great but it was half-decent football.

IF we get a striker and IF Drenthe gets a run in the team, we will batter someone soon.
Greg Lambden
8   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:28:02

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Don't agree Tony (6). We looked good at 0-0 when they sat back & let us have the ball. My local sunday side also look good when under no pressure. Once we scored and they started actually putting us under pressure on the ball we hoofed it as far up the pitch as we could. On the other hand they looked comfortable on the ball when we pressued them. The reason being they pass and MOVE we do not.
Eric Myles
9   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:30:04

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"who passes the ball in to Fellaini?s feet. Fellaini turns and exchanges passes with Rodwell before passing the ball out wide to Drenthe."

That's where it remains in fantasy land for me, until Fellaini learns to pass a ball forward, doesn't matter who the manager is.
Seamus McCrudden
10   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:34:26

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Hmmm... don't know about this one really. I think our main problem is our inability to break with pace & numbers at the same time. There were a couple of opportunities last night when we broke but there was no-one in the box when the final ball came in. Both Baines & Drenthe put some decent crosses in at times but Saha & Fellaini were way behind the pace or simply a bit lazy in not getting forward quicker. Must be the defensive Moyes attitude coming through?
Aiden Jones
11   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:37:16

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Another thread about a "great" manager who hasn't even has a full season in the Prem and how much better it would be if they were with us. Last season we had the same calls regarding Holloway and Di Matteo ....... look how they ended up. Seem to remember a similar call in the 90's with a Norwich manager whose team was playing "attractive" football ..... didn't work out too well for us.
Tony J Williams
12   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:52:08

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Greg they looked comfortable on the ball when he half heartedly chased their defenders but when we pressurised them in midfield they either lost it or the mis-placed their passes.

Any team can look good so long as they are not pressurised too much.

Fellaini dispossed their midfielders will some ease on many of their attacks
Greg Lambden
13   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:56:50

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Aiden, once Moyes quits or is sacked, we will require another manager.....
Andrew Flanagan
14   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:59:31

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This time last year it was Owen Coyle people were calling for. Now it's Brendan Rodgers. These names come and go like a fart in the wind.

We are NEVER going to push on from where we are without investment. Nothing to do with the manager in my opinion.
Aidy Dews
15   Posted 22/12/2011 at 14:47:36

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I enjoyed how Swansea played last night and I was impressed with how they pressed the ball and worked so hard to want it back but you've got to remember that the foundations of Swansea's play was already set in there by Roberto Martinez and carried on by Paulo Sousa.

Rodgers likes to play that way and it was easy for him to put his stamp on Swansea but when he tried it at Watford and Reading he couldnt get those two going and got the sack at Reading after taking them on a bad run of defeats and things.

Rodgers is doing well at Swansea cos they suit him and his style as they have had the foundations set by previous managers, but when given the chance at other clubs where he's tried to change there philosophies and put his stamp on the club, he didn't cut it.

But I'd love for Everton to play and press that way like Swansea did last night, and I don't see why we can't?

For me, Moyesy needs to take the reins off of the players and stop being so defensively minded and instead of having pretty much everyone back in our own half and sat deep, push them further up the pitch and press the ball higher so we can win it in advanced areas and have more bodies commited forward to give us a chance of having a player or two more to get on the end of moves or crosses as at the mo we struggle to commit bodies forward through being so deep as a team IMO.
Tony J Williams
16   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:26:09

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Aidy, I also enjoyed how Swansea played last night, as it gave us the 3 points were wanted.
Michael Kenrick
17   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:24:21

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Exactly, Aidy.

There was a moment that typified everything which is wrong with our attacking play, when Drenthe swung in a fantastic ball right into the danger area. But where were the strikers?

Hanging back, outside of the area, with obviously only one thing on their mind.... KEEPING SHAPE and TRACKING BACK when Swansea got the ball.

Drives me insane. I absolutely hate the way Moyes has us playing in the final third. It is the prime reason we score so few goals from open play. And yes, I firmly believe it's all down to him.
David Cooper
18   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:32:21

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For once Moyes got his tactics right. I don't think I have seen our players pressurise opponents so far up the pitch for a very long time. Often we had 3 or 4 players putting the Swansea defenders under pressure in their own half. This really disrupted their passing game and eventually meant that there was only one side in it. Having said that it must have been physically very demanding as the chasing went on until the final whistle. I know its not rocket science to come up with such tactics but at least Moyes did get it right in that respect. Hopefully the likes of Drenthe and Osman and even Fellaini will recover sufficiently for our next game.
John Talbot
19   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:27:22

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I think I must have watched a different game last night.

Swansea defended for 95% of the game with 10 players from 10 yards from in here half.

There is nothing great about that with a shot in each half.

They came for the draw and got what they deserved....fuck all.

Our problem is we gave then to much respect and should have played with 2 strikers the 4-5-1 formation is old hat a sussed by most teams they know how we will play every time

And Swansea i agree with Richard #1 relegation beckons
James Stewart
20   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:46:44

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This is a very misguided post.

I firmly believe Moyes's brand of negative anti-football will get us nowhere. However, Rogers is NOT the answer. Swansea were terrible! One of the worst teams I have watched all season. Rogers is even more negative than Moyes so this post is bizarre.

Moyes's replacement should not be from Rogers, Martinez Hughes etc. All are inept and not fit for the Everton job. There are plenty of excellent young managers performing well in Europe on shoestring budgets. It's a shame people don't watch football outside of the vastly overrated English league.

Swansea will be relegated and righty so for playing so cowardly.
Mike Allison
21   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:47:09

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Yeah I like the way Swansea play, its nice, they also use three out and out wingers in combination in Sinclair, Dyer and Routledge. They did really well to get promoted and they're having a decent season. But if you check you'll see they've scored fewer goals than us (16 goals in 17 games) and failed to score in eight games out of 17 this season. Sure they're basically a Championship side so we shouldn't expect too much but those are pretty dire statistics. It also shows that Rodgers is not operating under much pressure, the plucky underdog is a much easier position to be in.

However, that's not even my main point. My main point is that there is a manager every season who's team pass it around nicely, or who attack from the underdog position, without ever threatening to come close to Everton's final league position and people always say we should have their manager as if it was as simple as that. They seem to believe that if we could just replace Moyes with whoever then we'd keep all the good stuff Moyes does by right (which we take for granted) and simply add more attacking/passing/flair and its as simple as that. It aint.

This year its Rodgers, the year before it was Holloway, before that it was Coyle at Burnley, the year before that it was probably someone I've forgotten (or did we come 5th that year so it wasn't too bad...?). No doubt next year it'll be someone else and then they'll get relegated or fade back into obscurity.

What we need is money for new players, whoever the manager is. We've spent years at a ceiling that Swansea, Blackpool and Burnley were miles away from, and we're there because of David Moyes.
Tony J Williams
22   Posted 22/12/2011 at 15:55:17

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"... only one thing on their mind.... KEEPING SHAPE and TRACKING BACK" ? Not at all Michael, the only thing on Saha's mind was his holidays.

It's no surprise that when the floor-headering madman Stracq came on, we had a few through balls and an attack on goal.

The lazy one was the reason no-one was in the box, not tactics.
James Stewart
23   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:01:10

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Agreed Tony Saha was lazy and should be dropped. Only problem is Straq was god awful when he came on. The Argentinean Anichebe!

Saha went closer to scoring than him even though he is lazy beyond belief. I would rather have Lazy Yak anyday over Lazy Saha! At least Yak stays in the box!
Tony J Williams
24   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:08:56

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We need to keep Straq for comedy value alone. All the nervousness of the game went when we were all pissing ourselves laughing at the nutter trying to out Andy Gray, Andy Gray
Anthony Fielding
25   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:10:02

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We completely outplayed them from start to finish. They did try and pass the ball about, especially from their keeper, but all they seemed to do is pass the ball across their back line, they never really threatened us except for one decent chance. Had we had a better attacking option than Saha last nite we might have a bigger scoreline. I certainly wouldn't swap Moyes for Rodgers!
Rob Murphy
26   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:10:22

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Brendan Rodgers - Fuck me we have some strange supporters.
Paul Hughes
27   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:11:44

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The thing is though, he mistimed a tackle,tripped over a defender's leg and headed it along the ground in one seamless movement. Classic!
Ben Jones
28   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:23:47

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I think its quite a naive post to be honest. Brendan's not responsible for the passing ability of Swansea, it was developed over a number of years, since Martinez was there. They also had Sousa in between. You're probably looking at 3 years at least.

Its a long term project to change a style of play completely. Look at Coyle in Bolton, they still don't play the passing philosophy that Coyle believes in, and he's been there for ages. And Bolton were very effective with their long ball tactics, at least they finished in the top 10, top 12. They look like they're barely gonna survive relegation now.

Moyes is keeping us higher up the table with no money. At least keep him until we have some investment.
Alan Clarke
29   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:27:12

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There'd be no point in getting rid of Moyes if all you're going to do is appoint Rodgers. Swansea didn't have a shot on goal all night. They were the worst team I've seen this season. Our defence is low on confidence and there are goals to be had if you get at them but Swansea just looked clueless.

I don't want another negative 'play for a draw' manager.
Tony J Williams
30   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:35:45

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Alan, they actually did have one shot on goal and thankfully it was straight at Howard.

Maybe out luck has turned, as usually the one shot the other team has goes in, ala Norwich, Stoke and QPR.
Ray Roche
31   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:46:57

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"After Luis Suarez was banned for 8 games Kenny Dalglish has today contacted the FA to report that he has heard Andy Caroll making racist comments."

Well, it made me laugh.
Paul Johnson
32   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:49:17

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How ironic the guys who defend Moyes find it funny that we are wasting salary on some clown from Argentina.
Ray Roche
33   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:58:00

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Would that be the clown with the cake?
Tony J Williams
34   Posted 22/12/2011 at 16:58:36

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Barrell, bottom and scraping come to mind Paul.
Mike Manchester
35   Posted 22/12/2011 at 17:41:32

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Some people need to realise that we cant play with 2 up front, when we only have Saha and Straca. Always gonna need fresh legs in the second half. When we buy a new striker we MAY finally see some 442 action at home.

By the way to all the Moyes bashers, he dropped Cahill, just as he should. Perhaps these players are not "moyes's favourites" but the best at the club, therefore worth persisting with. IMWT
Gavin Ramejkis
36   Posted 22/12/2011 at 17:57:14

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I was at the game last night and my observations are that Swansea are tactically naive and made some glaring defensive mistakes which a better side would exploit and had they not got Vorm in goal they wouldn't have as many clean sheets as they do. Second observation and that is that they offer nothing whatsoever in the final third of the pitch - as Evertonians know all too well, you dont score and you dont win, Swansea are a side even worse than us at putting the ball in the back of the net.

Michael #16 the cross from Drenthe which saw Saha rooted to the spot instead of moving his lazy arse into space as a striker should got him deserved bell end from the Park End which he responded by facing us and shrugging his shoulders, well if you dont do your job in the real world you get bladdered in cloud cuckoo football land you live to fight another day.

Mike #33 whose fault is it we have 3 (not 2) strikers at the club? Who in their right mind or shitely ran club would sell Yakubu and Beckford and Vaughan and not replace any of them with similar or better?
Aidy Dews
37   Posted 22/12/2011 at 18:06:12

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I hate it as well, Michael, and it seems to be every game that we have our team shape and get bodies back in our own half and sat deep.

We don't even put pressure on the man on the ball, we don't get in teams' faces. There was a time in the match where Saha was plodding along, half-heartedly closing down in Swansea's half between halfway and their 18-yard box, and the likes of Neville and Felli were in our own half just outside the centre circle, for me they should've been on the halfway line or slightly higher so we could put pressure on Swansea and push them back and then, if we do win the ball, we'll have more players in advanced areas for better options when attacking and building moves!

Why we sit so deep as a unit at home is beyond me, and when we don't press the man on the ball it really pisses me off. I see every team that we play against do it to for the majority of the game and yet we stand off and let them play and pick their passes. I hate to see us stand off; to me it looks like were not trying!.

And as for not having no-one or not enough bodies in the box when good crosses come in, like last night, a couple from Drenthe and one cut back type from Baines, then it's just a joke, but like Michael says, its down to the team being ordered to keep their team shape and not commit forward and breaking up the defensive unit leaving us vulnerable at the back.

He's so cautious Moyes with the way he sets up the team and sends them out to play, that it's hindering our attacking play.

And people who say Swansea weren't all that good or basically defended for all of the game are wrong. The way they passed and moved the ball and looked so comfortable in possesion and never flustered, popping it off, one- and two-touch in tight spaces, was good going for me. If they'd of had that extra bit of quality, creativity and guile in the final third then they'd've got something or won that game last night.

Now, when I see the likes of Swansea, Wigan, WBA, Norwich and the likes (plus Blackpool last season) playing the kind of football they do, regardless of where they end up, it makes me wonder why we can't play similar with the quality of player in our squad? You watch us try and string more than four passes together and it only goes sideways or backwards and then long up the pitch to no-one cos we're not comfortable with the ball... And we're even worse when on the ball and put under pressure, we panic and act as if the ball's a bomb and can't get rid of it quick enough!.

We clearly don't get trained enough with the ball and doing passing and moving, one- and two-touch intricate stuff. You can see when we have the ball in games as we can sometimes look really uncomfortable in possession, well to me we do. We clearly work on defensive shape and getting men behind the ball too much all week.
Richard Dodd
38   Posted 22/12/2011 at 18:52:53

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I hear that Strac is toast and Vellios will be going out on loan. There`s still work to do to keep hold of Royston (a bigger chunk of his wages) but with Landon in the bag and a top notch finisher all but here, we can look forward to the usual splendid `second half`!
James McPherson
39   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:06:24

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Doddy, pardon me for asking, but am I correct in my understanding that Dear Davey gets £65k each and every week, and not just from January through to May. Just thought I'd ask. Only one season (4th place finish) in my recollection has he started in August.
Richard Dodd
40   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:09:54

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Well, be that as it may be, I don`t think he will turn his back on us anytime soon and Bill surely has to take credit for that!
Tom Bowers
41   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:09:43

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Thre are some good young managers out there who could conceivably do better with this Everton team than Moyes. Moyes has had his tenure and although he had some,shall we say ''success'' up to 5 years ago things have declined dramatically which are just down to his tactics,team selection and formation. Granted he has not had the funds to make us a top 6 team but at least make us a competetive team, playing with more ideas in the final third of the pitch.

Whilst most teams are coached into retaining possession as long as possible until an opening appears, Everton very rarely create that opening thanks to poor midfield vision with the players he has put out. I agree some of them have had their moments; Coleman, Drenthe and now Osman finally chipping in with a couple of goals... but the consistency isn't there.

Just a note also that Everton have failed to score in the first 45 mins in all 3 home games against the promoted teams and have only gotten 2 goals themselves against the same teams. Just not good enough, Moyes. We need fresh ideas and a fresh approach as Moyes has nothing new to offer, epitomised by his stubornness even yesterday with his formation and playing Coleman (clearly not 100%).

Why no Barkley??? It just goes on and on with Moyes. Enough is enough!!
James McPherson
42   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:19:53

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Doddy, we don't need reminding on just who we need to thank for what we have.



More - nihil autem genuit minimum faciam than nil satis.

Lap it up my friend...you'll soon have the place to yourselves.
John Ford
43   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:10:42

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We played with good energy last night. The five in the middle worked well as we had plenty of runners into the box and the extra mid players allowed us to have good posession. This has been the basis for Moyes Everton since the beginning.

The problem is we don't have the quality (no Pienaar, Gravesen, Arteta, or a young romper stomper Cahill) to give us the edge. Drenthe did well at times and there was a good momentum. We're still lacking as an attacking force but there were some good signs, particularly in the first half. A clever bastard forward with a big ego is what we need to be more dominant.

I like the idea of a passing and moving team and Moyes does this well, given the opportunity. Doddy is right, getting quality in will change this, but I just don't see it happening. Sadly we'll continue to flirt with being a good team.

Kenwright, drop your price, you're draining us.
Matt Traynor
44   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:28:00

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Richard #39, you are right on at least 1 point. Thanks to the pitiful performance of the board which has seen Moyes have to constantly sell players to keep BK in post, the performance of the team suffers, as does Moyes reputation. The fact that no club has ever approached Everton for permission to speak to Moyes speaks volumes.
Ian Bennett
45   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:26:36

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Judge him over 3 years plus rather than 18 months. Plenty have said Holloway, Di Matteo, Zola etc, which doesn't look any better than Moyes.

Perhaps Moyes will take the Athletico job? Perhaps he will get a couple of decent bodies and things will look very different. The young 3 in midfield, Seamus and Baines at full back, a decent striker and wide right man and it could turn around.

Happy Christmas all.
Richard Dodd
46   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:23:26

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I do agree, Tom, that there are quite a few `good young managers` but none of them are as good as Moyes was when Bill plucked him out of nowhere to take charge at Goodison. Certainly not the present `sweethearts` of the press, Rodgers, Lambert and Coyle.

Yes, our man is paid an obscene amount of money `to keep us safe` but that`s the rate for the job in this crazy world of football today!
Peter Fearon
47   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:30:34

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Michael. In addition to the beautiful Drenthe cross you refer to, Leighton Baines also fought for the ball down to the goal line, pulled back a ground ball into the center of the penalty area ? and no-one was breaking forward for what would have been a great scoring opportunity. There's not much wrong with the build-up play once we commit to attack, but you have to have men bearing down on goal. We rarely seem to have men putting themselves in scoring position,
David Hallwood
48   Posted 22/12/2011 at 19:32:27

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Personally I think the Stracq grasscutter header is up there with the Cruyff turn.
Gavin Ramejkis
49   Posted 22/12/2011 at 20:08:29

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Doddy you do talk some shite, "none of them as good as Moyes when Bill plucked him out of nowhere", and comparing him to Lambert. Let's take a think about that shall we, Kenshite wanted Megson not Moyes Moyes suggestion was down to Walter and what exactly had Moyes achieved over Lambert who has had two promotions back to back with pretty much fuck all money, Gollum has a failed attempt at getting Preston promoted and a few token LMAs which are meaningless to the fans.
Ben Jones
50   Posted 22/12/2011 at 21:31:15

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Right Gavin, so Lambert is better than Moyes? I know Dodd might speak some rubbish at times, but what you just said then beats it hands down.

Champions league finish, top half finishes, European football, not getting relegated! I mean I know our football is getting a bit stale but you cannot deny the acheivements he's already done.

Lambert will be another Coyle, refreshing for a year then evidently not very good. At least Moyes is consistently up there in the Prem.
Ian McDowell
51   Posted 22/12/2011 at 21:59:43

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Moyes every day of the week.
James Flynn
52   Posted 23/12/2011 at 00:27:20

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Ian (51) - 6 words saying it all.
Gavin Ramejkis
53   Posted 23/12/2011 at 01:41:25

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Whoa there Ben, try again matey Champions League qualifier and straight out without qualifying - beats what exactly hands down?

What has Moyes won? Come on ten years and the answer is fuck all, ten years and never beaten the Sky darlings away in the league. Moyes is consistent in only one thing and thats neing at Everton, not once in ten years has another doestic or foreign club came knocking for him, not once.
Jimmy Sørheim
54   Posted 23/12/2011 at 02:06:27

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It is a bit dangerous to be pointing out that the other team only had one shot at goal, I think you only need to look back at Stoke and Arsenal for when we were the ones being laughed at.

This win will, as Moyes said earlier, only put make-up on the real situation, and the fact we can't score with our strikers.

It must be the most terrible drought I have experienced since the Howard Kendall / Walter Smith days. Only then we had Duncan Ferguson at least who knew how.
Dont go in the trap thinking we are out of the woods safe and free yet, we still need arond 24 more points if we are to be happy, but the real test is NOT Swansea, it is Sunderland and Bolton who are on the up.

You have all been warned.
Mick Davies
55   Posted 23/12/2011 at 04:33:54

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Our poor deluded fans are content with dour, unimaginative and risk-free tactics espoused and directed by the deadly duo, Moyes/Round. A change of manager would freshen things up and boost the players, if not the fans. Osman is now flavour of the month because he's managed a couple of goals. If we had a decent 'striker' in his place, how many goals would he have scored? Sunday Leaguer Hibbert is a wasted shirt, with Neville or Coleman there, we may be a lot more creative and solid. Moyes seems to have this ability of making good players into wrecks, and if we had someone with the ability to coach and lead the team properly we'd be in a higher position for sure
Dave Wilson
56   Posted 23/12/2011 at 05:43:36

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Rodgers, Lambert and Yakubu . .Interesting treble
Phil Martin
57   Posted 23/12/2011 at 06:59:05

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Ridiculous article:

Rodgers 2011
Holloway 2010
Brown 2009

You get my point?
Sean McKenna
58   Posted 23/12/2011 at 08:03:07

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Funny lot these Evertonians.. Let's put it simples: Fellaini costs more than the whole Swansea team! Moyes has had 10 years without winning a thing.... NOTHING! His negative football has seen crowds dwindle down to 30,000, selling players and not replacing them, that's his fault.

After 10 years in charge, why are Evertonians still worrying about relegation? This team can play good football because I have seen it with my own eyes!! We seem to play better when we go a goal down because the shackles come off.

Moyes will never ever change his ways though and this is the problem, he never learns. I don't care who takes over from moyes as long as he is not a negative twat.
Paul Johnson
59   Posted 23/12/2011 at 09:04:53

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I despair Richard "to keep us safe" bollocks we pay the police to keep us safe.
We pay Moyes to deliver a team that will entertain and hopefully win us trophies.
Seriously I am tired at the total lack of ambition from the guys who can see no wrong with moyes, I wish you would all fuck off and go and support Wigan. They love wallowing around relegation.
Martin Mason
60   Posted 23/12/2011 at 09:33:01

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And then we wake up and find it's time for school.

I give you reality, the only thing that matters
Alan Clarke
61   Posted 23/12/2011 at 09:44:37

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Moyes was given a chance when he'd achieved very little. When we hired him, Moyes hadn't achieved a top 4 finish and these amazing fantastic open top bus tour top half finishes aswell as those amazing bottom half finishes too (including lowest ever goals scored tally and biggest ever defeats). Moyes has also been party to selling off the family silver, which I'm sure he'll continue to be part of when Rodwell and Barkley are eventualy sold so he can buy such gems as another Bily or Heitinga.

Who's to say Lambert wouldn't do better? He's achieved more with Norwich than Moyes had with Preston yet some of you wouldn't want to give him the same chance you wanted Moyes to have? Who's to say Holloway or Coyle couldn't achieve more at Everton than they have at their respective clubs? They all boast better CV's than Moyes did prior to being appointed Everton manager.
Tony J Williams
62   Posted 23/12/2011 at 09:22:29

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"We pay Moyes to deliver a team that will entertain " - No we don't, Everton FC pay him to get as many points in a season as he possibly can, entertainment is a by product.

"I wish you would all fuck off and go and support Wigan" - Say it all about your mentality, if you don't think the same way as me then your a ....use expletive here....

Four legs good, two legs bad and all that.

It's Christmas, stop being a dingbat!
Tony J Williams
63   Posted 23/12/2011 at 09:49:36

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Alan, do you think that if Lambert, Coyle or Rogers came in that they wouldn't be part of selling Rodwell or Fellaini?

And people call us apologists deluded?
Ben Jones
64   Posted 23/12/2011 at 10:08:25

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Yes Gavin, we have won nothing, you're right. But what gives us the right to win anything? Have you seen our squad? Good, but its not the best or the worst. Yes, there are random winners of trophies sometimes, Birmingham, Portsmouth etc but it hasn't happened too often, and we did make a cup final by the way.

And how do you know no club has been after him? You have no proof of that. You know the papers or football news do not portray everything. Bit of a weird one there.

And what he has acheived is what I mentioned earlier. High league finishes, staying in the league. Other managers would have got us relegated. Fact.

Fact is with all this money lark, history unfortunately doesn't count for anything anymore. City and chelsea are gonna start winning things. So we have no given right to win a trophy anymore, so we have to start playing well, rather than saying Moyes is crap because he hasn't won a trophy
John Ford
65   Posted 23/12/2011 at 10:13:03

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Arguing against Moyes on the basis of league position is just bizzare. If you bother to look at his record there is no manager outside the money clubs with a better record, and that includes Redknap and ONeill. Im not suggesting others couldnt do well at Everton but there are no examples anywhere in the past ten years where a manager has the same consistency as Moyes

To suggest anyone could do better is almost by definition taking a risk (given his record against his peers). There may be an argument against Moyes, probably mostly aroubd wanting to see more attacking football, but I believe Moyes is generally getting the best out of what is now a mediocre squad.

Its so common to see teams attacking well for some of the seasopn (and Moyes haters start claiming a new managerial king - Coyle Martinez Rogers (jesus!) Holloway), then these teams are found out and end up dropping like a stone - witness Sunderland Bolton and Blackpool last season, all of whom were heralded as showing Moyes a thing or two.....then as usual we overtook them and over the season they and their managers were found out.
Sam Hoare
66   Posted 23/12/2011 at 10:26:17

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Find it strange that swansea, one of the only teams to score less than us is being used as a model of how we play.

The likes of Rodgers and lambert are fresh and relatively untested, with not even a full premiership season. They may be good managers but represent a big risk. A risk that we do not need to take.
Phil Walling
67   Posted 23/12/2011 at 09:55:50

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Dodd has a go at me for being new to this site.Happy Christmas to you Richard!
In fact,young, man this is my 43rd year as an Evertonian and I have never witnessed such dross as is served up by the present manager,
Don`t give me Gordon Lee,with Latchford,King and Kidd we had SOME magic moments with Dave Thomas providing great service from the wings.Sure Walter`s time was not of the best but certainly no worse than what we are expected to cheer now.And,at least,we had Big Dunc for a while!
Kenwright and Moyes are a double act-we shan`t get rid of one without the other calling it a day.
Roll on that day,I say!
Nick Entwistle
68   Posted 23/12/2011 at 10:54:42

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It is always easier to extol the virtues of a hypothetical alternative than to justify a cautious and disappointing reality... not my quote, but I'm taking it.
Tony J Williams
69   Posted 23/12/2011 at 11:09:41

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"Other managers would have got us relegated. Fact." It's not a fact at all Ben, it's an opinion.

Other managers "might" have gotten us relegated. No-one can say for certain that they would have

Ray Roche
70   Posted 23/12/2011 at 11:19:37

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Phil Walling
Phil, the "dross" being served up by our present manager is certainly no worse than that under Smith. But the TEAM is light years ahead in terms of quality,
Simonsen, Pistone, Weir, Stubbs, Unsworth (Blomqvist 75), Hibbert, Carsley, Gemmill, Gravesen, Radzinski (Moore 45), Ferguson.

That is the team Moyes picked for his first match. When you think of the players Kenwright has sold, Arteta,Pienaar, Rooney etc., you will not convince me that that is abetter team, and the squad would be miles worse off then.
Gavin Ramejkis
71   Posted 23/12/2011 at 11:56:48

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Ben #63 "Fact" or what you reckon, using your own logic because you haven't seen it in the papers, I'm pretty sure given the nature of managerial headhunting over the last few years any approach for Moyes would have been picked up and ran with the same way every other managerial change has been for years
Phil Walling
72   Posted 23/12/2011 at 12:15:05

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Ray; I thought NO player got sold unless it had the manager`s say-so! Are you saying that Moyes dissembles?
Dave Wilson
73   Posted 23/12/2011 at 11:58:43

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Anyone who doesnt believe Moyes would walk into a job if he left Everton is just kidding themselves.

Its ridiculous to compare people like Holloway and Lambert to Moyes, he may not have won a trophy, but while these guys were covering themselves in glory managing the likes of Wycombe, Colchester and Plymouth, Moyes was taking on some of the worlds richest clubs Fielding world class players, managed by some of the greatest managers in the game.

It may hurt those who choose to ignore the facts, but when Kenwright was sending Moyes into battle with a fraction of the budget afforded to these managers - several of them Champions League winners - he really WAS asking him to go to war armed with knife.

When the likes of Holloway were crumbling under the expectation of managing the "mighty" Leicester. Moyes was taking on - and beating - the richest clubs on the planet.

Its impossible to compare Moyes to ANYONE in the modern era. simply because the other managers who have consistently finished top six have been backed by boards who have attracted and paid the the worlds top talent.

Gavin Ramejkis
74   Posted 23/12/2011 at 12:59:08

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Dave semantics aside, walking into a job from unemployment and being headhunted by other sides are two distinct and clearly different things, Moyes has not been headhunted in ten years at Everton.
Ian Tunstead
75   Posted 23/12/2011 at 12:51:34

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Rediculous article. If jaggs Neville and Hibbert cant pass a ball now they never will.

Maybe if we do get this feller in i can play and he can coach me to pass to Fellaini. I'll be like Zidane when he's finished with me.
Dave Wilson
76   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:01:30

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Gavin

SAFor Wenger havent been head hunted in ten years either . .whats your point ?
Ray Roche
77   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:16:49

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Ian Tunstead
"I'll be like Zidane when he's finished with me."

What? Bald and retired?

In that case I'm like Zidane NOW.
Ian Tunstead
78   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:18:45

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Haha, you got me there Ray, i imagine he's still a good player though.
Vinny Garstrokes
79   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:16:04

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My opinion is that Everton are a difficult club to manage. Many have tried who have had considerable success elsewhere and failed when they came to us. I offer no solutions but will back DM until he has had enough and moves on to pastures new (maybe Celtic 2012/13 season) and will then look forward to somebody like Stuart McCall or Eddie Howe who will have then had another 18 -24 months under their belts to try to move us on.
Vinny Garstrokes
80   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:16:04

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My opinion is that Everton are a difficult club to manage. Many have tried who have had considerable success elsewhere and failed when they came to us. I offer no solutions but will back DM until he has had enough and moves on to pastures new (maybe Celtic 2012/13 season) and will then look forward to somebody like Stuart McCall or Eddie Howe who will have then had another 18 -24 months under their belts to try to move us on.
Ryan Holroyd
81   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:18:59

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Gavin,

You say Moyes has not been head-hunted in 10 years? Could you please tell me how you know this?

Thank you.
Andrew Green
82   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:14:07

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This is a pointless debate really! Moyes has been learning the 'trade' during his time at Preston & Everton. He built a pretty good team, which has been broken up. I thought that the football we were producing with Arteta, Fellaini and Pienaar was pretty football mixed with a toughness instilled by Moyes.

However, I agree, the shite we see now is very different. That said, so is the squad. It is not Moyes's fault it's Bullshit Bill and his other owner mates. Twice under Moyes we have reached a point where investment (and not much of it) would have taken us to another level... and Bullshit Bill screwed us both times.

It is a case of survival this season. If Moyes feels up to the task of rebuilding the team (or making the attempt) at the end of the season, then he'll sign up for longer.

My worry is he will think "What's the point?" ? build up another team to the same point... to have Billy No-Mates dismantle it again!
Sam Hoare
83   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:22:03

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Dave @75...strong argument.

The idea that Moyes hasn't been headhunted is ridiculous at best and a feeble attempt to weaken him.

Nearly every manager that we play speaks up beforehand about what a great job he has done at Everton, why is it that so many of his own fans find it hard to see the same thing!
Ray Roche
84   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:18:43

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Phil Walling

Let's be honest, Moyes MAY have the final say but if Bill is telling him that if we don't sell Arteta, Pienaar or whoever, than the bank,say, is calling in the recievers what would Moyes be expected to do? Do you honestly believe that Moyes has wanted to sell Arteta, Pienaar, Rooney, Beckford, Yakubu,Lescott and Yobo and not have any real money from some of those sales with which to improve the team? OK, some smart arse will come on here and blurt about Bily being crap and Moyes wasting that cash but there is a considerable imbalance between money received and wages saved, compared to money spent. Even Beckford was sold for a quick profit.
Ben Jones
85   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:28:23

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Ok, Tony and Gavin, it may not be fact but in my opinion, a lot of other managers would have made Everton relegated, especially with the some squads and teamsheets. I remember we were favourites for relegation and we finished 4th, but oh yeah I forgot, despite that, according to you Gavin, Moyes has not acheived anything. Credit where its due surely.

And there is no guarantee he hasn't been headhunted. No reports from the papers higlighting it doesn't mean its happened. I mean, if ur talking about abroad, when's the last time a British manager been headhunted? And with regards to domestic clubs, maybe doddy's right and Kenwright won't let him go. If you're being realistic, he's only gna go to a similar size or bigger club than us. Arsenal and Utd have had their managers for ages. Chelsea and city are the only clubs that could have gone in for him really. And I'm pretty sure villa wanted him.

So there ain't much basis for your argument Gavin, and like Dave said, what is your point?
Ben Jones
86   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:28:23

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Ok, Tony and Gavin, it may not be fact but in my opinion, a lot of other managers would have made Everton relegated, especially with the some squads and teamsheets. I remember we were favourites for relegation and we finished 4th, but oh yeah I forgot, despite that, according to you Gavin, Moyes has not acheived anything. Credit where its due surely.

And there is no guarantee he hasn't been headhunted. No reports from the papers higlighting it doesn't mean its happened. I mean, if ur talking about abroad, when's the last time a British manager been headhunted? And with regards to domestic clubs, maybe doddy's right and Kenwright won't let him go. If you're being realistic, he's only gna go to a similar size or bigger club than us. Arsenal and Utd have had their managers for ages. Chelsea and city are the only clubs that could have gone in for him really. And I'm pretty sure villa wanted him.

So there ain't much basis for your argument Gavin, and like Dave said, what is your point?
Gavin Ramejkis
87   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:43:51

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Dave why would SAF or Whinger leave Man U or Arsenal respectively? Every other managerial change has been pretty much openly publicised, in the ten years Moyes has been at Everton a number of high profile managerial vacancies have been available not once and I repeat not once has Moyes been in the running for any of them, here or abroad.

The supposed "strong argument" is a nonsense. Your own would walk into a job is speculation without any grounds as in ten years he clearly hasn't walked into a job despite many being available.
Ray Roche
88   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:52:14

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Gavin,

Maybe Moyes is happy here.
Guy Rogers
89   Posted 23/12/2011 at 13:55:12

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You would be better of with me an manager, as any Rogers with a D is a distant, poor relation of the Rogers tribe and certainly not fit to manage our great club. Vote for Guy Rogers instead a far superior breed of Rogers.
Ben Jones
90   Posted 23/12/2011 at 14:24:46

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I'm pretty sure he was in the running for the Villa and Newcastle jobs, both big clubs and I would say high profile. I think the Celtic job too when O'Neill and Mowbray left.

He'll be mentioned for the Utd job and Spurs job if harry leaves as well
Ray Roche
91   Posted 23/12/2011 at 15:19:24

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Guy Rogers

Any relation to Roy?
Dave Wilson
92   Posted 23/12/2011 at 14:52:58

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Your argument is a foolish one Gavin.

Some Managers are happy were they are, Moyes is one of them , as is Dalgliesh, Arry, Mancini. These guys like their employers and earn decent wages . .so like Wenger and SAF you wont see anyone come in for them.

When the Geordies want Big Sam out , he went, When the Mackems wanted Cushion face out, he went, when the shite wanted Woy out he also went. The fans decided. . just as the fans decided when Dalgliesh and MON were appointed.

When the Newcastle and Villa jobs were open, opinion polls proved Moyes was the overwhelming first choice amongst both sets of fans. if Moyes had offered the slightest encouragement to either club the job would have been his. such was the speculation at the time, he had actually had to publically rule himself out of the running.

Now it may not suit your argument - that nobody want Moyes - but you probably should be having it with the Geordies, the Brummies . .or better still the Mancs, because every time SAF`s successor is discussed on website or phone ins They throw Moyes`s name into the hat more than all the other "possibilities" put together. WE DONT DO IT, THEY DO.
Yet if you mention it to one of Moyes critics, they get all angry and pretend it doesnt happen.
James Flynn
93   Posted 23/12/2011 at 15:40:45

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Ray (82) - "Let's be honest, Moyes MAY have the final say but if Bill is telling him that if we don't sell Arteta, Pienaar or whoever, than the bank,say, is calling in the recievers what would Moyes be expected to do?"

Exactly. How would a middle-management employee have the final say on financial matters in any business. Soccer is no different.
Ray Roche
94   Posted 23/12/2011 at 15:59:06

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Jmaes.
Are you actually agreeing with me!?
Guy Rogers
95   Posted 23/12/2011 at 16:06:32

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more closely related to Buck, but nice of you to think of me in the same breath as Roy.

Happy Christmas to all you toffee webbers, new investment and rising up the table will be back on the cards soon!!!
Chris Butler
96   Posted 23/12/2011 at 16:24:56

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We always have the same arguements yet nothing really changes. Moyes is not as respected as he once was everybody knows that. If you visit other fans forums and speak to other fans, not all of them admire Moyes. Liverpool fans say he has no tactics, I actually agree with them now we just hoof the ball up, pass sideways and hope to get a goal.

is widely seen as a very negative manager by a lot of opposition fans. I agree he was once a top manager but I think he's just given up. The ridiculous sale of Beckford and Yakubu and then bringing in Denis. His stupid interview when he said it would take Denis a long time to get used to English football.

Yakubu has scored 10 goals I think in the Premier League we could've kept him and possibly been in a better position. Also, he sold Beckford who managed 13 goals last season despite the fact he rarely started. Nowadays teams know that we won't put a lot of pressure of them because we don't have a proper striker, Cahill's useless at the moment.

What has struck me the most is not the reaction of our fans, but the reaction of other fans ? they believe we're there for the taking now. Nowadays it's not if the oppositon score, its when.

Now what I believe is the main question that supporters should be asking is: Has Moyes done the best with the resources he has over the last 2 years? I'd say no. He's sold numerous players and brought nobody in, he tends to do business far too late in the transfer market. He has kept useless players like Jags, Arteta and Anichebe.

Arteta wanted to leave in the summer of 2010, it was obvious to me. The fact for the whole summer he didn't make any comment about his future, when he got his 75 grand a week contract, he was suddenly happy. Fans favourites like Lescott, Vaughan, Yak, Yobo and Pienaar and all unfortunately left.

Attendances are dropping rapidly so it's obvious fans are annoyed. I think it was Tony J Williams who made a comment that it's down to the reccession people are giving up, we've been in reccession for the last 3 seasons and still averaged 35/36,000 even in meaningless sunday games against West Ham.
Ray Roche
97   Posted 23/12/2011 at 16:49:32

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OK,Guy, just wondering if we were going to have a cowboy managing us...
Have a Happy Christmas all.
Paul Johnson
98   Posted 23/12/2011 at 16:48:25

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Ben do you seriously think that David Moyes would be in the running for the Man Utd job. United are a huge global business who need guaranteed success to maintain revenue.

They are not going to handover that level of responsibilty to someone who's claim to fame is a 4th placed finish and FA cup final.

James Moyes will not have the say on what the business finances are but he will have a budget that he needs to meet so ultimately he will have a say on who he sells and who he keeps. As has been styated on this site many times we have to sell approx 15 - 20 million inclusive of salary every year to break even. Moyes knows this so he should be looking at who he wants to keep and who he wants to sell. I do believe it was his decision to sell Arteta.
Alan Clarke
99   Posted 23/12/2011 at 18:11:24

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Dave (72) fuckin hell, you out do yourself sometimes!

Whilst Holloway was crumbling under the pressure at Leicester, was Moyes really beating Europe's top teams? His record would suggest differently but don't let the facts get in the way of your overstated opinion.

Prior to taking over at Everton didn't Moyes crumble under the pressure of taking Preston to the play-offs? Had Moyes made it through those play-offs do you think he'd have kept Preston in the Premiership? Probably not.

So why is he any different to managers like Lambert and Holloway? The only difference is they haven't been afforded the same chance Moyes has at a bigger club.
Phil Walling
100   Posted 23/12/2011 at 19:52:19

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So it seems Moyes is most people`s hero today!
It means we can go into Christmas safe in the thought that our team is in good hands and therefore look forward to some scintillating football in 2012.
Really ?
Phil Walling
101   Posted 23/12/2011 at 20:03:38

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Wally,you may have been watching since Everton played in hobnailed boots,all I can say is that the Premier years,the quality of football has not differed much from what we see today.
Certainly,during the mini successful period under Royle,the Dogs of War were by no means masters of flowing football.Like Moyes,Joe opted for pragmatism and was lucky enough to
pull off a trophy but `quality` was nowhere to be seen.
Nobody can know what Davey would have achieved with money to build on the sound foundations he has established several times over but he`s our manager whether you like it or not ,so please desist in your hounding of a decent man.
We are not Blackburn Rovers!
Phil Walling
102   Posted 23/12/2011 at 20:35:22

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The above post was addressed to me from Richard Dodd on another site in a similar debate which some of you may be party to.
I can only say that to compare this rubbish with the excitement of Joes` days is an insult to a great Everton hero!
Dave Wilson
103   Posted 23/12/2011 at 20:12:26

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Alan #96

My points were points of fact .

Did not Moyes end the mighty Arsenals run when young Wayne got the winner.

And while Europes elite failed to stop the shite lifting the Champions league, didnt we not finish above them and twat them at GP ?

Did AJ``s goal not sink champions league finalists Arsenal in the snow ?

And did I merely dream that Moyes boys battered BOTH of the sides who played in the Moscow champions league final ? These were/are amaongst Europes sides

And since City became the richest club in the world has any manager beaten them more than Moyes ?

It wasnt just Leicester Holloway took down, he also took QPR down. Did you know when he took Blackpool down he was completing his hatrick ? and would you REALLY be happy if Kenwright gave him his chance ?

Lambert left Livingstone having stuggled to win a couple of games all season. He then left The Colchester chairman and supporters in the lurch shortly after signing a new contract.

I`m an Evertonian first and foremost. I would wave Davey Moyes goodbye in a heartbeat if somebody better came along, but come on Alan . . please
Gavin Ramejkis
104   Posted 23/12/2011 at 21:54:48

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Dave you use the word "fact" in your arguments but they are overweighted with subjective selective fantasy.

Do you genuinely believe that fans employ managers at football clubs? The club employ them and in the majority of cases Managers are shown the door through failure which threatens the club's bread and butter income of retaining a place in the EPL and sweet fuck all to do with the fans - thats deluded fantasy. Similarly you hear radio phone ins clamouring for Moyes to takeover the Man U hotseat and credit it as a genuine reality? A club and business as successful as Man U would be looking for a manager with proven European pedigree, a handful of patronising LMAs mean fuck all to the accountants.
Dave Wilson
105   Posted 23/12/2011 at 22:32:13

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Gavin

I use the word fact when I feel I have stated one.

If you think the Geordies and the Kopites didnt influnce -instigate - the departure of Sam alardyce and Roy Hodgson then fair enough, but I think you would be in a tiny minority - even if you were in a room full of accountants.
Even accounts recognise the power of the paying customer.

That Man United fans often come on radio phone ins and say Moyes would be their choice however IS genuine reality -fact - we have all heard em.

The fact that you neither like it or agree with them doesnt make it any less true.

Have a good Christmas Guys
Jimmy Sørheim
106   Posted 23/12/2011 at 23:08:45

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Just read a lie from Moyes in 2009:

"The one thing we've got at Everton is stability with our players. They are all under long-term contracts and we don't need the money. I'd like money to spend, but I won't be giving up any of my players to raise that money."
And Moyes added he was happy working at a club where he has to be more careful with his money.

I must say I have remembered him saying this a couple of times during the last years, however as we all know he just sold 5 first team players without replacing them.
I feel disgusted after having read this, things can not have changed that much in two years regarding our situation.
Ian Tunstead
107   Posted 23/12/2011 at 23:13:52

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Jimmy, as you must know, life can be very complicated, and i'm sure Moyes meant what he said at the time he said it, but times change.

I dont see it as a lie anyway, what he said is still true, he sold his players because they wanted to leave. Arteta wanted out and we have two replacements coming through, Rodwell and Barkley. Yak probably wanted out because he and Moyes seem to have had a falling out. Beckford was a league 1 standard player we got him free and sold him for decent money.
Ian Bennett
108   Posted 23/12/2011 at 23:18:36

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Jimmy 104, I rather fear they have.

Banks have pulled funding on certain high risk businesses, which includes a club like ours. Look at Sunderland losing Bent, and sending their other striker out on loan. Look at Villa losing Downing and Young and only signing Nzogbia, Blacburn losing Jones. Newcastle have scaled it back with transfer fees (inflows) and wages falling back. The only clubs who have spent money are the top 6, and the newly promoted teams like Stoke and Wolves who took it steady in the first few seasons in the Premiership.

The only way we bought players in recent years is from securing against sky money, selling players and selling Bellefield. This covered the Yak, Fellaini and Johnson splurge, with player trading inbetween around Lescott etc, which made things look a lot better 3-4 years ago then they really were.
Mike Allison
109   Posted 24/12/2011 at 01:24:17

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Alan (98), one quite important difference is that Moyes now has almost ten years experience over them, is the incumbent, and has assembled the current squad who all seem happy to play for him. Is that three important differences?
Mike Allison
110   Posted 24/12/2011 at 01:25:59

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"So it seems Moyes is most people`s hero today!
It means we can go into Christmas safe in the thought that our team is in good hands and therefore look forward to some scintillating football in 2012.
Really ?"

Yes! Thank you so much for putting those words into our mouths, I don't know why we didn't just come out and say it.

You are advocating a simplistic 'straw man' position of your opponents' arguments that has been dealt with a million times on Toffeeweb and it is boring and frankly ridiculous to think that the anti-Moyes brigade STILL believe that we, his supporters, think like that at all. We don't.

I suggest you spend some time trawling through the archives to see the intelligently moderate defences of Moyes that have been patiently explained on this website time and time again. Once you've done that you can argue against what we actually say rather than what you wish we'd said.
Frank Yelash
111   Posted 24/12/2011 at 03:15:58

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I have heard it all now. Swansea were naive at best. They can be thankful that they had some superb last ditch defending, an excellent 'keeper and some, none too surprisingly, unconfident finishing from us that they didn't get the 3-4 goal twatting they deserved. The game was on TV delayed at 5 in the evening. I read the reports on TW and was expecting the worst in terms of our play. Bugger me if we actually played alright. some of our play was top notch. Unf ortunately a lot of it is started by Saha coming deep and he is either too old or slow to break his neck to get in the box and finish it. You can't always blame the manager when someone misses one like Gueye did or nobody was busting a gut to get into the box. I've heard it all when people truly believe that Moyes sends the forwards out with the instructions to not get in the box in case they have to track back? ludicrous
Peter Barry
112   Posted 24/12/2011 at 04:36:00

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Its so obvious with every game played this season that Tactics Devoid Dithering Dour Davey only has one aim 'Not to lose' hence all his obsession with forwards 'Tracking Back'. But once that 'not losing' looks like a forlorn hope he has not got a clue. His substitutes and substitutions, by the CLOCK, are all for the purpose either drawing or holding on to a slender 1- Nil lead such is the negativity of Dour Davey . A negativity that Tactics Devoid Dithering Dour Daveys teams have shown in spades on the pitch EVERY game this season.
Gavin Ramejkis
113   Posted 24/12/2011 at 10:04:56

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Dave, we'll have to agree to disagree as there are examples of managers the fans want out sat firmly in place - Kean at Blackburn being a prime example. As fas as Man U fans impact on the Glasers go then the yellow and green scarves haven't really forced the sale have they?

Anyhow, Merry Xmas Dave as no one else has offered and Merry Xmas to everyone else including Doddy!!!
Noel Lynam
114   Posted 24/12/2011 at 10:29:14

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"Similarly you hear radio phone ins clamouring for Moyes to takeover the Man U hotseat and credit it as a genuine reality?"

Of course that does not make it reality, Gavin. Much like a fan claiming on a website that no other club has wanted to recruit Moyes in ten years, does not make it reality.
Richard Dodd
115   Posted 24/12/2011 at 10:38:35

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Thanks,Gavram,and the same good wishes to all on Toffeewb.com.
I`ve enjoyed our jousts throughout the year and look forward to a continuance thereof in 2012.Whilst we see EVERYTHING from a totally different perspective,we both want the same thing for our great club-SUCCESS.
It`s just that our definitions of that word are worlds apart!
Gavin Ramejkis
116   Posted 24/12/2011 at 11:08:02

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Noel the difference being there are clearly documented stories in the national and international press of various approaches for managers at other clubs which then went on to fruition, not once in ten years has this happened with Moyes. It's like comparing BK's ten year search for investment and his "no one looking to buy football clubs" whilst all around clubs are bought and sold - a simple nonsense, if a bigger club wanted Moyes he'd have gone in a heartbeat.
Phil Bellis
117   Posted 24/12/2011 at 11:49:31

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Merry Christmas Doddy
"...there?s no success like failure
And ... failure?s no success at all"

Bob Dylan, 1965

Think about it
James Flynn
118   Posted 25/12/2011 at 23:27:30

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(Ray) - I was agreeing, just adding. It seems peculiar to me that many in here are blaming Moyes for moves clearly dictated by our financial position.
Mick Davies
119   Posted 26/12/2011 at 04:00:52

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"We pay Moyes to deliver a team that will entertain " - No we don't, Everton FC pay him to get as many points in a season as he possibly can, entertainment is a by product. Well T Williams, he doesn't entertain and he doesn't win anything. 10 years is more than twice the time allowed to Smith, 5 times as much as Walker and more than 3 times more than Bingham, but is he really that much better than them? If we won trophies playing dour, defensive football, we could forgive him and say, "well at least he delivers". If we were being entertained but in the position we are now then at least we're getting our money's worth. But could you please tell me the attraction of Moyes as manager? Is it because, as a post above intimates, that other managers like and respect him? Well it doesn't take a Steven Hawking to understand why
James Crolla
120   Posted 26/12/2011 at 13:59:17

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A few major problems with your article.

Jagielka (WHO CAN'T PASS), who passes the ball in to Fellaini?s (WILL NOT BE AN EVERTON PLAYER NEXT YEAR) feet. Fellaini turns and exchanges passes with Rodwell (WILL NOT BE AN EVERTON PLAYER NEXT YEAR) before passing the ball out wide to Drenthe (ON LOAN AND WILL NOT BE AN EVERTON PLAYER NEXT YEAR_. Drenthe plays a one-two with Baines and is now in behind the fullback. Drenthe moves into the box committing the defender before pulling the ball back to Saha (TOO HOLD AND INJURY PRONE AND PROBABLY WONT BE AN EVERTON PLAYER NEXT YEAR) who steps over the ball and Donovan (ON LOAN AND WONT BE AN EVERTON PLAYER FROM MARCH 2012) strides onto the ball and strokes it home.

Problem is not the manager, its the serious lack of investment in the squab and the club. Players will continue to be sold to pay off the interest on the debt. MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Mick Davies
121   Posted 02/01/2012 at 03:32:44

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"When the Newcastle and Villa jobs were open, opinion polls proved Moyes was the overwhelming first choice amongst both sets of fans. if Moyes had offered the slightest encouragement to either club the job would have been his. such was the speculation at the time, he had actually had to publically rule himself out of the running."
Dave Wilson, give your head a shake mate. WTF has fans being interviewed about a possible manager got to do with the club actually abiding by their opinions? HOW do you know that Moyes would have been offered the job, do you sit on the board's of Villa and Newcastle? Doh

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