Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Leon Osman ? Cheat!

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Always had time for this guy whenever he played for us. I know he gets stick but he did seem to me to be honest in that he would always put in a shift.

When he kicked the ground against Sunderland, fell to the ground and then put his hand up to claim a penalty, I thought, ?Oh no, not him as well?. I really hate that kind of thing ? whenever one of our lovable neighbours does the same thing, it gives me added fuel to hate them even more.

And now we do it too. I know we?ve had players who have gone down too easily in the past but not like this. My love for football and Everton just sunk further down the drain.

So just one question ? what is the point any more?

Vince Hindson, London     Posted 28/12/2011 at 17:09:32

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Kevin Hudson
1   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:09:01

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One can recall the justified vitriol directed towards the antics of Suarez during the Derby. Contrast the lack of similar anger, and hypocrisy from Evertonians towards the 'gamesmanship,' displayed by Osman against Sunderland.
Lewis Barclay
2   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:20:01

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Unfortunately, it's most likely route to a goal for Everton right now.
Derek Thomas
3   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:46:29

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Sad, but this is now, get over it: sniffs; smells faint hint of any excuse for Osman bashing.

Don't remember any body up in arms when Anders Limpar fell over his own feet Vs Wimbledon.
Alan Clarke
4   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:53:18

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Or Jagielka's swallow dive against Villa last season.
Eugene Ruane
5   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:36:03

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Imo, they're ALL cheats. EVERY player in EVERY team. They will ALL try to seek an advantage ANY way they can. Some might be more blatant than others, but they ALL claim every goal-kick is a corner (and vikky verka) and they ALL claim every throw in is "OUR BALL!!". Footballers have always cheated refs. There might now be more of it and it might be more subtle, but...cheating is cheating and I personally make no distinction between levels and types of cheating.
Robbie Shields
6   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:57:42

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Whilst I'm not the biggest Osman fan, I think the accusations of him being a cheat are way out of line. Sometimes even when you kick the floor it can feel like you've been kicked by someone else. I'm pretty sure Osman was trying to shoot and because of the players immediately around him tensed up, causing him to kick the floor inadvertently. I can't see how anyone seriously would think he actually planned to kick the floor like that on purpose. I think his reaction was that he genuinely thought he'd been kicked.

Definitely not a pen, but in my opinion Osman didn't cheat.
Dick Fearon
7   Posted 29/12/2011 at 08:27:09

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Suarez has made an art form of diving and feigning injury and is one of few players who deliberately tries to get opponents sent off.
Osman's case did none of those things and nor have I ever seen him do so.
Another difference is that all Suarez team mates vent their spleen in a co-ordinated, one could say, well rehearsed attempt to influence the referee, viz a viz Reina and Carragher racing half the length of the field to get in the refs face.
Nothing of the sort was evident in Osmans case, in fact, the little fellow seemed totally surprised though I admit he did seem pleased at the penalty decision.
Then off course there is the re-action of both managers.
Suarez, according to Dalglish can do no wrong, he tells the world that Luis is victim of a conspiracy that involves other clubs, their managers, players, fans and the FA.
Conrast that with Moyes pre season dictate to our players not to dive. A dictate that many believe has cost us vital points.
Then look at how quickly he held his hands up and clearly stated that Osmans case was definately not a penalty.
Would Daleish have been so honest? By the evidence to date, not in your wildest dreams.
Dick Fearon
8   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:09:32

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PS, I am well known on this site not be a Osman fan yet for all the lads many faults cheating is not one of them.
Simon Atkins
9   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:27:37

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Dick Fearon - good points well made.

Osman is many things, a cheat he is not. This was an exception to the rule as opposed to the Suarez norm.

If you want to have a go at Osman there are many things that you could choose, cheating should not be one of them
Jason Lam
10   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:31:46

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He could've gone to the ref and say it was, having gathered his thoughts, not a foul I just stubbed my toe. Then let the ref decide whether to override his decision. IMHO who are we to judge professional football players who are paid to win games? Though wasn't it Robbie Fowler who had once told the ref it was not a penalty (he still slotted in the spotkick afterwards)?
Steve Guy
11   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:36:41

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Well said Mr. Fearon. I actually get frustrated at how many times our players could react to a poor decision or a bad foul on one of our players, but don't. At the same time I'm also proud of them for not having such hissy fits.
Wolves' Hunt is in the paper today calling for his own team to start doing more of this after they had a player sent off against the Arse; I call that bringing the game into disrepute.

Suarez epitomises everything that is wrong about the game these days and there's plenty more like him; but Ossie's not one of them
John Talbot
12   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:44:49

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We finally get a dodgy decision going our way..........get over it !!!
Tom Dodds
13   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:39:07

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I think its down to the metal of each individual player.Osman to me seemed to hide his 'pleasant suprise',at getting the pen,knowing imo that he didnt deserve it.
I mean i think hes a pretty straight guy,and ive a feeling if the ref had blamed a sunderland player and carded him, Ossie would have held his hand up.
So back to the fine lines of character...Hmm football has for too long been a game of 'handbags'with players,and mega money at stake,so i understand were people are coming from,respect however is as they say priceless.
Phil Walling
14   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:46:22

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Football supporters are a `one-eyed` bunch.Look at our neighbours`support for the CONVICTED Suarez whilst Chelsea followers can`t POSSIBLY see how Terry could be guilty of a similar offence.
No, I don`t think Ossie is a congenital cheat but when the opportunity arises to fool the ref and best the opposition,he`s in there with the rest of them!
After all,he won us a point,didn`t he?
Les Roberts
15   Posted 29/12/2011 at 09:59:30

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So does it make your blood boil when two opposing players both put their hands up and claim a throw in? Or when a keeper makes a finger tip save yet still tries to claim a goal kick?

This sort of thing has gone on forever and is not quite the same a blatant diving...and there is also the case that Osman might have genuinely thought he was tripped as why else would he have kicked the floor? Just a thought...

And, instead of moaning, let's just accept a bit of good fortune when it comes our way!
Anthony Millington
16   Posted 29/12/2011 at 10:12:39

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PLEASE DO NOT compare Osman to Suarez or any other diving, cheating red sh***. It's the first dive Osman has done in his career, and probably his last! Afterall it wasn't even a dive ffs! I give two reasons for Osman claiming a pen, either he mistakenly thought his standing leg had been contacted by the opponent rather than his own or and MORE REALISTICALLY he plays for Everton and is used to getting stonewallers turned down left right and centre by the referee, so thought why not claim for a pen.

There is a difference between Osman and cheats, who specially work throughout the game on getting opponents booked or diving to win free kicks or penalties. Osman's only criticism came from him innocently falling over! Get a grip! Some people have short memories don't they, remember the derby one player feigning injury to get another sent off? That's a cheat! Has Osman ever done this? I can struggle to think of any Everton player to have done this infact, whereas there's a whole list of red ones; Alonso, Sissoko, Arbeloa, Garcia...
Alasdair Mackay
17   Posted 29/12/2011 at 10:38:25

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Leon has been one of our best performers in this calendar year and he definitely kicked the ground.

He was probably convinced it was a pen right up until the point when he saw the TV replays after the match!
Jimmy Sørheim
18   Posted 29/12/2011 at 10:46:48

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Whatever, as long as we got the penalty I just dont care, I care more about winning against WBA.
Vince Hindson
19   Posted 29/12/2011 at 10:42:55

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It wasn't the falling over that I object to (he clearly stumbled), but the hand in the air immediately after to claim the pen. I think Everton ought to make a big deal about this and wheel Leon out to apologise in public. Maybe put some pressure on other clubs, managers and players, and state that this kind of thing is unacceptable at Everton.
John Crook
20   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:05:41

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It was a poor decision by Webb. However, I do honestly think Osman is not a cheat... I think he was expecting a challenge seeing as he had 3 players on him and he tripped up over himself and he probably thought there was contact naturally. Any player attacking would raise the arm to claim a penalty.
Ian Kearney
21   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:11:21

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If he knew no one touched him an he appealed he is out of line, but as he is 30/31 and has no history for this sort of thing whatsoever, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Suarez dives every game, tries to get people booked every game, tries to con the ref every game, has constantly has opponents refuse to shake his hand every game.

The comparison with Osman is unfair.
Shaun Sparke
22   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:08:12

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Kevin #1 It's called human nature. You look after your own and you repel outsiders. It's the way that it is.People are not robots. You may sit on your high moral horse and castigate your fellow blues as hypocrites if it pleases you. But that is not my way. I tend to take the view that they are partisan supporters. It's what makes this game so interesting.
Dave Wilson
23   Posted 29/12/2011 at 10:50:16

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I sincerely hope he did cheat - although I very much doubt it.

Why are so many Evertonians living in the past ? Batsmen no longer "walk"

When I think of penalties for or against us, I think of the 8-9 stone wallers not given to AJ because Jose and Wenger had blatantly cheated by blackening the guys character.
I think of Hansen palming inchy`s goal bound shot away, Nichole shoving Sharpy in the back as he`s about to bury it. I think of Anichebe being hauled down by Ferdinand. I think of Gerrard not being content with a dive, but talking the ref into sending Tony Hibbert off. I think of the same gobshite referee looking the other way as Carragher tried to hump Lescot.

I think of Moyes not making a fuss, I think of Everton players meekly accepting injustice after injustice . and I think of Evertonians wanting us to be "above that sort of thing"

FUCK THAT ! I want us to cheat, the playing field is uneven enough without "nice" Everton tilting it even further by turning the other cheek. Who wants to be a victim ?

Only when we start to get penalties at OT, or the Gerrards of this world stop refereeing the games and every cheating fucker we come up against stops play acting should we be calling for our players to "play nice"

In the meantime, I`ve forgotten, Ossies penalty, I`m only concerned with how that twat got away with rugby tackling Drenthe in the box a couple of minutes later.
Do you really think the Shite or the Mancs would have accepted that decision so readily ?
Ed Fitzgerald
24   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:21:18

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It was pretty clear what happened Ossie thought he had been taken down from behind he was wrong as the clumsy bugger brought himself down but it hardly equates to calculated cheating. All he did was raise his arm hardly the most strident of protests and the linesman gave it. I was sat amongst others with his brother in a pub watching it we all screamed pen and then all laughed when we saw what had happened. Vince and Kevin get a grip of yourself how long have you been watching Everton comparing Ossie to people like Suarez discredits you. Just compare the incident at Sunderland to the incident in the derby concerning Rodwell to note the difference
Kevin Hudson
25   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:29:02

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What you're implying Shaun, is that it is okay if WE cheat, but definitely NOT okay for others to cheat us.

"We look after our own and you repel outsiders."

Fascinating moral compass on display here.

None of us care that Osman dishonestly won us a penalty, but threads have been littered with abuse for cheaters who have cost US.

The explanation of partisanship simply confirms our hypocrisy, and underlines our deliberate selectivity.
Chris Keher
26   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:31:53

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I think the fact is that we would all like no-one to cheat and those that do to pretty much be banned from the game.

But every team cheats and pretty much no-one ever gets punished for it.

Whilst it's allowed like it is now we have no choice but to do it.

I actually think we do it less than others for the record.

I do agree though - what is the point in sport? What is the point in letting players get away with it?

I would rather 10 players were done for diving and got say 10 game bans (with only 1 being guilty) than none getting done and the none-stop play-acting.
Kevin Hudson
27   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:38:52

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Ed,

Osman accidentally fell over. So why DID he appeal?

Could the (apparently admirable) lack of Suarez-like stridency be on account that he KNEW it was a lie, never felt entirely confortable with it, but still attempted to cheat Sunderland anyway..?

Admitting you were sat next to Ossie's brother discredits YOUR impartiality.
Ed Fitzgerald
28   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:40:51

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Kevin

It is your own moral compass I would worry about you appear to have granted yourself the wisdom of Solomon here. You also appear to have given yourself some kind of Derren Brown type powers that allows you to see into the mind of Leon Osman at the time he went down in the box.

Did he think as he went to shoot I know what I will do I will kick my own leg and fall over and claim a penalty or genuinely think he had been taken down from behind. You dont know that anymore than I do. But on the balance of probabilities i.e. having watched him play for us for years I would suggest the latter is more likely dont you?

Phil Walling
29   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:51:15

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.....so just as I said,`football supporters are one eyed`!
Ian Smitham
30   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:42:25

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Dick, well said, especially in the follow up comment, Anthony I agree with you also and the comments of Ed.

I do a bit of reffing at a pretty low level and things happen in games and you think you see what sometimes it turns out not to be the case, e.g a Goalie says he got a touch but you have given the Goal kick, but even the highest qualified, and experienced, in this case Mr Webb can also make mistakes.

Sadly, the approach of others is to take maximum advantage of situations, like JR in the Derby, whereas I hope that we play hard but fair, not so sure about the hard in Leon but certainly I can only imagine him as fair. As Ed said, the first he probably knew was when he saw the replay, and I must admit I was also screeching for the Penalty on first viewing. Webb in the meantime had to make a decision based on that one viewing and I guess regrets the error in hindsight
Stewart Littler
31   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:46:17

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Sometimes, I am bemused reading these threads. So a question, for the 25 posters above - how many of you actually play/have played football? I do, very regularly, and will tell you that at the speed he was going, with getting a shot away the only thing on his mind, he would, at the time, have been convinced he had been clipped. So how is it cheating to claim for the pen?

Some above have mentioned Liverpool, and one of their players. Well I'll tell you 2 things - firstly, that prick Dalglish never had the decency to castigate the referee for that awful (sidetrack - I heard one commentator call the Osman decision the worst he'd seen all season - what short memories!!!) decsion in the derby, and is amongst a clutch of managers who have 'Neverseenit Syndrome'; the other is for those who watched MOTD on Monday, recall if you can Steven Gerrard's first touch from a free kick, which lead to a header going over the bar. This free kick was won by Carroll tripping himself up in similar style to Osman. Only I never heard the commentator mention that - he was too busy getting excited about Gerrard's first touch in god knows how long.

Personally, I cannot abide cheating - defined by me as any attempt to deliberately and knowingly con the officials or opponents. I will never forget Paolo di Canio picking the ball up after our 'keeper (Gerrard?) had collapsed when he had an open net to score in - sadly, not much fuss was made of that incredible act of sportsmanship at the time which shows how much it is valued in general, but I will never forget that. And I have also stood on the Gwladys St and sighed to myself at the playacting from some of our previous players, including both Arteta and Pienaar, because great players shouldn't need to do that.

But there is a very obvious difference between cheating and an honest but incorrect claim and some above need to get a grip of that.
Ed Fitzgerald
32   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:54:30

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Kevin


It was a packed alehouse we all screamed for a pen when we saw it in real time did you?

So if it is possible for us to be wrong about it being a pen and the referee does it make it equally valid for the player to think he has brought down from behind?
Denis Richardson
33   Posted 29/12/2011 at 11:49:06

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The incident happened barely 10 yards away from the ref, who had a clear view of it. IMO its the refs fault for being blind given it was clearly not a pen.

I do not fault Osman for trying (the hand in the air was a bit embarrassing but maybe also a bit instinctive). Virtually every player does it and he probably would not have done had we been leading 3-0. However, it rescued us a point so am not crying about it.

Just like the hand of frog with Henry, if the ref is blind when something blatant happens then why blame the player. The refs are there to enforce the rules, until they do this properly every player is going to try to take advantage.

Ask yourself this - had that pen been the difference between Everton being relegated and staying up in the last game of the season, would you still be on your moral high ground? (Didn't think so)

Am still mighty glad Hans Segers did us a huge 'favour' in 1994! (Will not say any more there....!)
Tony J Williams
34   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:14:57

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Evertonians, don't you just love em?

The lad has arguably won our last 5 points with his 2 goals and the pen and we still have posters turning on him.

Vince 19 has the best idea, now he knows he tripped himself up, it could be a good idea to apologise, but put in the statement that he genuinely believed he had been tripped, hence the arm up.
Dave Roberts
35   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:08:27

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In my opinion it is highly likely Ossie didn't cheat at all.

His foot came to dead stop when he kicked the deck but he wasn't looking at his foot! He probably thought it was a defenders foot. He was the beneficiary of a refereeing error (or plain incompetence) which is something of a rarity for Everton.

Just be grateful.
David Hallwood
36   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:21:17

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It is amazing how some incidents are seen as being worse than others, and as Eugene#5 points out they're all cheats, and it is up to the refs/linesmen (yes they are linesmen not asst effing refs) or the athorities to sort it out. But to my mind if somebody going down in the area after the lightest of touches, or is knowingly in an offside position and scoring and claiming the goal they are all guilty of seeking to gain advantage.

A couple of games ago Ryan Shawcross spent the entire game with fellani in a headlock at corners, is he a cheat?, how about the shirt pulling that goes on at every corner sometimes putting a player off from scoring a certain goal.

Get over it, because what is going to happen is that we will be 'AJ'd' for the rest of the season and getting nothing from the officials
Jimmy Sørheim
37   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:16:37

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I think of all the penalties we did not get in the past.
So the hope is it will even itself out some way, but it never does.
The sending off for Rodwell is 3 points lost in a way.
I think it is naive to apply moral in football, there has not been any focus on the cheating part of the game so it will go on as it always has.
The FA is the ones who need to do something about it, not only Everton, that would be a mistake.
Kevin Hudson
38   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:34:35

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It's the distinction between being tripped up, and accidentally tripping oneself up.

I would argue that the body & mind instinctively KNOWS the difference.
James Stewart
39   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:48:45

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I'm no Osman fan but that was not cheating. He tripped up in the box and from most angles it looked a nailed on pen.

We deserved anyone what about the numerous times we haven't been awarded one this season. stop complaining lad!
Ste Blundell
40   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:51:06

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He was knocked before he kicked the floor.
Ciarán McGlone
41   Posted 29/12/2011 at 12:48:21

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Anybody who can't tell the difference between the ground and a player, needs to see a doctor.
Brian Waring
42   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:07:01

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Eugene has ut spot on.

I remember Jags cheating to win that pen, and in all the posts after the game not one person brought up the fact that Jags was a cheating bastard.
Andy Hegan
43   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:12:17

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Have you considered that he mistakenly thought he'd been tripped? In which case he's only guilty of making a mistake.
Guy Hastings
44   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:11:34

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Years ago in a park game I was haring head down towards goal ( not unlike our own Forrest), had my legs whipped away from me and was claiming a pen before I hit the ground. As I landed, I realised I'd tripped up over my own feet - there wasn't a defender near me. Cheat or klutz? Klutz obviously but these things happen. Same with Ossie, I suspect. And I didn't get the pen or a card for diving - a yellow for being a bit of tit isn't (yet) a carding offence.
Ray Robinson
45   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:08:52

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I agree with those posters who state that Osman genuinely THOUGHT he had been brought down.

And by the way, saying as one poster said that they WANT Everton players to cheat, is quite disgraceful in my opinion. No, I'm not holier than though - but the answer surely has to be stricter punishment for those that do cheat? Otherwise where does it all end?
Shaun Sparke
46   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:16:00

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Kevin, moral compass. What on earth are you alluding to? I have no problems with my morals and live my life as honestly as I can. We are talking about a game of football here. Please don't try and introduce psychological analysis of posters to make a point. Osman claimed for a penalty in a football game. It's as simple as that. Me thinks you are taking things far too seriously young man. Relax a little and enjoy life. There will be plenty of time to become a grumpy old man in time.
Norman Merrill
47   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:37:41

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What's new? One of the greatest players ever, was a cheat. Diego.
Colin Wainwright
48   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:32:54

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Whether Osman deliberately cheated or mistakenly thought he'd been fouled, he won us a penalty and a point, that we should never have had.

But to compare the lad with that redshite waste of fucking skin, is, imo, way off the mark. Suarez has ''cheat'' as an occupation on his C.V.

BTW, i've got no problem with being hypocritical and selective when it comes to that shower of shite across the park (it just winds them up more), and my moral compass is still working (I think).
Barry Curran
49   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:38:11

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How did Osman cheat? He went down, then the ref gave a penalty. All he knew was he was stopped from shooting; the ref gave the decision ? not Osman.

Cheating means you break the rules; the rules don`t say if you think you are fouled you can not appeal, and we have had our fair share of cheating refs over the last couple of seasons.
Anto Byrne
50   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:35:33

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We have electronic technology in most of the major sports, cricket, tennis, rugby, baseball, hockey and gridiron. Of course the football gods won't bring in goal-line cameras or third umpires/refs. So get used to it, the non-reds and the blatant reds, offsides, penalties etc etc.
Ray Roche
51   Posted 29/12/2011 at 14:13:31

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Kevin Hudson, or should that be Saint Kevin, what the hell are you on about? I watched the game and thought straight away that it was a pen. Obviously it wasn't. Are you %100 sure that Osman, a man with no previous history of cheating,unlike Suarez, was sure that he hadn't been tripped ? The worst,in my opinion, was an Osman embarrassed at kicking the ground. Maybe he's aware of the stick he'll take off plastic Evertonians on here, many of whom have never kicked a ball.
Kevin Hudson
52   Posted 29/12/2011 at 13:52:55

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More hypocrisy Shaun, as having now accused me of mounting (an apparent) psychological analysis of you, you immediately decide to proffer one of your own about me.

( Ie: Telling me that I need to "relax a little & enjoy life.")

Why..? Because I had the gall to respond to the post you directed at me?

Or because I highlighted the view that predicating one's values based on partisanship isn't sufficiently sound enough to condone Osman's gamesmanship?

This is the skewed moral compass I'm talking about. The disregard for 'fair play,' except when it hurts us.

I doubt you would be so phlegmatic about it if it had happened in reverse and cost us two valuable points?

Then why take offence when this ethical inconsistency is pointed out?
Kevin Hudson
53   Posted 29/12/2011 at 14:32:13

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Ever accidentally tripped yourself up Ray?

Ever been deliberately tripped by someone else?

Know the difference?

Did it 'feel,' the same?

And, again, if Sunderland had equalised via this method, would YOU remain benign (or Saintly) about it?
Dave Richman
54   Posted 29/12/2011 at 14:35:43

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Good point from Guy Hastings...... I snapped a cruciate ligament in my knee some years ago, and was convinced I'd been wellied from behind by a defender..... but it was just a case of my studs got caught as I tried a Cruyff-like turn.... these things DO happen!
Brian Waring
55   Posted 29/12/2011 at 15:35:57

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So, if that incident had gone the way of a Sunderland player, and that player was known for not being a diver,etc, would you lads backing Osman, be saying the same thing?
Colin Wainwright
56   Posted 29/12/2011 at 15:45:02

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No Brian, I wouldn't. I'd be slagging the ref tbh.
Ray Roche
57   Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:10:20

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Kevin.
Of course I'm guilty of tripping my self up (I remember a similarly embarrassing episode to Osmans) and I also remember the indignation of having been upended but when you're also being tackled it can seem remarkably similar. Ever played the game?Only takes a slight nudge at the speeds I could manage!....but to have a pop at someone who had absolutely NO history of cheating and compare him with that little shit Suarez...no wonder there are plenty of people ready to defend him. For a change.
Listen, Kevin, we have been on the receiving end of more than our share of dodgy decisions,especially in Derby's, so it makes a change for Lady Luck to wink in our direction as she has done this season. And if the situation was reversed , yes, I would be all saintly and accept the decision. The ref ballsed up, end of.
Funny how no-one has mentioned Moyes immediate reaction in his post match interview "No, it wasn't a penalty". How many other managers suddenly "Didn't see it" like King Effin Kenny over the park.
Andy Crooks
58   Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:15:30

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Dave Wilson,Osman cheated in a half hearted Everton way.He stubbed his toe and went down making an arse of himself.The hand raised appeal was an attempt to cover his embarrassment. He is not a cheat but a bloody good Evertonian who has done very well lately.
Frankly,Dave,I'm appalled that you hoped he did cheat.Do you really want our players to behave like scum like Suarez?As Eugene said ,all players will cheat but unlike him I believe there are degrees of it.Suarez is the lowest form of life ever to play in the premier league and I wouldn't want him on a free for Everton.
Michael Mcloughlin
59   Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:57:29

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I dont think he did cheat actually. I think the Sunderland player clipped him as he brought his foot down to kick the ball which caused him to miss kick, So for me it was a penalty. I would like to hear his side of the story to see if that was the case
Shaun Sparke
60   Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:50:52

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Oh dear Kevin, the heat under your collar must be quite irritating. I would be more than happy to while away the hours (If I only had a brain) with you debating more accurate targets for accusations of hypocrisy. But this is neither the time or place for such a cogitation. Osman fell in a football game and won us a penalty. Had that been against us of course I would have complained, because I am an Evertonian. It doesn't make me morally corrupt as you suggest. Just a football supporter who wants his team to get as many points as possible.

I live in a real word where most people do not hold Corinthian-like virtues. What would you have us do? Roundly condemn Osman and berate him for his lack of sportsmanship? Or shall we refrain from venting our anger at opposition players who deliberately dive? What type of football do you want to watch?
Anthony Flack
61   Posted 29/12/2011 at 17:11:56

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Crickey Vince, you seem as fair and balanced as Daglish is nowadays....he tripped, he may have caught his leg on the defender, he definitely kicked the deck. Never a penalty but I think we should have zero criticism for Ossie in this instance. Would you rather our players did not appeal unless they are 100% certain....
Anthony Flack
62   Posted 29/12/2011 at 17:15:40

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Sorry I pressed submit too soon, one of my kids clipped me from behind and as I grabbed the IPad must have pressed the submit button, it was never a penalty....

Some of these posts are cracking, the English used is very advanced, especially Ray and Kevin, I would love to hear what they shout and sing about when at the match...
Dave Wilson
63   Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:59:36

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Andy I dont like it either and would be happy to see the authorities hand out hefty fines and lengthy bans to put a stop to it, but they wont So if our defenders are nervous as fuck to tackle forwards because they are likely go down at the merest hint of contact, I want our forwards filling the opposition defenders with the same doubts. I really dont get this George Washington stuff - maybe my moral compass is skewed - last time I was in the North East we found ourselves 2 down to a Newcastle side that had only managed one shot on target and although we missed a load of sitters, we eventually cheated out of it by Gosling making a save Big Nev would have been proud of . .nobody said a fucken word. This time we get a decision in our favour and we are queuing up to lambast our own player. You answer me this Andy : would you rather have travelled up to Newcastle to see us be cheated or travelled up to Sunderland to see us come away with a point having benefited from Ossies "tumble" ? Given that you agree with Eugene - that they ALL cheat - Would you rather Everton were rising above it, making some sort of moral statement ? Ossie`s main attribute is his quick feet. I want this to be the first of many, I want to see him driving into the opposition penalty area "inviting the challenge" at every opportunity He and the rest of the team have an obligation to Evertonians everywhere to fight fire with fire.
Mick Gallagher
64   Posted 29/12/2011 at 17:44:35

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Sitting behind the goal when Ossie went down most of the end went up claiming a pen. Maybe we are to blame for making the roar that convinced the ref. SHAME ON US IN THE AWAY END AND WELL DONE TO THE ONES WHO NEVER CLAIMED A PENALTY YOU MUST HAVE FANTASTIC EYESIGHT.
Dennis Stevens
65   Posted 29/12/2011 at 17:37:40

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How peculiar this site can be. Little Leon gets so much stick & in this case the basis seems to be merely that his critics perceive his claim for a penalty to have been deliberately cheating - even though they don't actually know if this is the case! If you guys are ever on jury service, then I pity the accused.
Keith Glazzard
66   Posted 29/12/2011 at 18:22:09

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Dave Wilson is quite right about one thing. Minutes after the pen Drenthe went into the box along the by-line past his man and was taken down from behind. Foul. Penalty. No chance. The ref, now being soundly abused by the home crowd, chickened out.

Some say these things even themselves out. I don't believe that in general as we are owed many 'decisions' already this season - but in this case it did. Justice was done.

Sod all to do with Ossie 'cheating'.
Jon Cox
67   Posted 29/12/2011 at 19:21:23

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Ozzie isn't a cheat. Football has no moral compass. End of, live with it.
Dick Fearon
68   Posted 29/12/2011 at 21:09:11

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Osman, the little bastard who I have no time for, had, for once in his puny life, brilliantly dribbled, while under enormous physical pressure from a player to the side and another closing in, had bravely wriggled his way into a good shooting position.

Just as he set himself for a shot at goal from 15 m, he then cold bloodedly decided to kick the ground and claim a penalty. Is that what you believe, Kevin?
Fergus McCarthy
69   Posted 29/12/2011 at 22:50:30

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Have not read all the above, but I actually think there was a touch on the side of his shin that was similar to an ankle tap and unbalanced him. It was not a lot, but enough to stub the toe and he knew he had been unbalanced. Others would have been stronger (Rooney would have powered through), but you take your victim as you find him. Penalty.
Brendan McLaughlin
70   Posted 29/12/2011 at 23:01:09

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You lose your footing in the penalty area for whatever reason ..you stick your hand up and claim. That's a world away from diving/cheating.
Pat Finegan
71   Posted 30/12/2011 at 01:07:36

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I've tripped over the ball in competitive matches a few times and every time I threw my hand up simply because I didn't want to look like a total knob. It's not cheating to gain a competitive advantage, it's cheating out of shear embarrassment.
Gavin Ramejkis
72   Posted 30/12/2011 at 01:55:56

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Got to go with Dave Wilson on this one, am fed up to the back teeth of this play nice bollocks which gets us nowhere. So we got a pen that wasn't a pen, who gives a shit? As far as moral compasses go I'd give it a rest and join the big bad real world where people truly are cunts and if you want to get on you do what you have to do.
Mick Davies
73   Posted 30/12/2011 at 03:56:30

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I have never liked Osman, too inconsistent, lightweight and slow to react to situations when a simple pass would benefit the side yet he blasts the ball Johnny Wilkinson style into Row X. But I have never doubted his desire, attitude or professionalism. Therefore, although I detest dirty cheats like Suarez and Rooney, I believe Osman acted spontaneously and out of embarrassment when throwing his hand up.

In a decade of playing for Everton and Derby, I cannot recall another incident where he feigned or dived to gain an advantage, and he's not the sort to wave imaginary cards at refs, so unless he decides this is the way to go from now on, we should cut him some slack and not brand him along with the true scumbags who bring the once beautiful game into disrepute regularly.
Ray Roche
74   Posted 30/12/2011 at 08:06:09

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Mick Davies.

Says it all.
Nick Waters
75   Posted 30/12/2011 at 08:57:49

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Fergus (69) and others have it right - it was a pen. Even Ossie could not miss the ball by that much, and although the 2 camera angles don't show a contact that doesn't mean there wasn't any. It's only when a tackler's leg is extended that you can see where the contact is. When defenders are just running close to an attacker a contact can be made inadvertently and it's impossible to see from whom. I've never seen Ossie dive and I don't believe he did it here either and as I've said he can't have missed the shot/ball by as much as he did.

As for Moyes's instant denial on the TV, I think he's just presenting himself as a realist overall so that when he feels there is an injustice he can say that he always gives a balanced appraisal of events (deliberately contrasting himself with Dogleash).
Tony Cawson
76   Posted 30/12/2011 at 10:37:57

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I'm with Guy on this one. I remember making a dart in the box from a free kick and being convinced I had being pushed and tripped by the defender. I roared at the ref, which isn't like me, and the man in black and the other 21 players on the pitch just laughed their balls off at me. Nobody behind me! Still think now I was tripped!

I have always appealed for throws and corners, always. I wouldn't say that's really cheating. What about moving the ball forwards on free kicks? Running down the clock? Treat every game like a derby, there is a difference in being clever and blantant cheating ? like them lot over the park.
Brian Waring
77   Posted 30/12/2011 at 11:43:57

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Nick ? "It was a pen"

"And although the 2 camera angles don't show a contact, that doesn't mean there wasn't any."

So your evidence of it being a pen, even though the camera's show there was no contact, is that Ossie could not have missed the ball by that much, without there being contact?
Eugene Ruane
78   Posted 30/12/2011 at 12:02:27

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Wow, it seems it's NOT just a river in Egypt.
Andrew Gilbert
79   Posted 30/12/2011 at 12:17:25

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Totally agree with Robbie #6
Nick Waters
80   Posted 30/12/2011 at 12:24:51

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Not exactly Brian. My VIEW is that it was a pen. I watched live and saw the angle of Ossie's body as he lined up the shot and then the miscue was so wide that the overwhelming reaction was a foul. I also thought Osman's reaction was that of someone tripped, and other Everton players reacted similarly. I can understand Sunderland players reactions as no-one attempted a foul but someone did brush his leg which wasn't strong enough to knock Osman down but interfered with the strike. That's how it looks like it plays out.

Just for perspective, I don't think our penalties at Blackburn or Wolves at home should have been given so there's no blind denial here. In the Sunderland game however there's room for more than one view of the issue.
Tommy Hesketh
81   Posted 30/12/2011 at 12:45:47

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Nick,

I agree with you, it looked like Ossie was brushed with what could be described as a heavy duty "Fart", the gust and power of said "Fart" managed to knock the muscular Ossie out of his stride thus resulting in a clear clut Penalty,

We should not castrate Ossie for falling over, we should be looking the effects of dropping a large Fart in the Penalty Area should be investigated by The FA.
Chris Butler
82   Posted 30/12/2011 at 15:03:42

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There's a big difference between Osman and Suarez. Osman did not feign injury, he did not get a player sent off. Also Moyes admitted it wasn't a penalty; no such comments made by Dogleash.

Two Blackburn players dived to get players yet they only did it once and they missed the penalties. Also I remember Giggs running into Pienaar's leg and getting a penalty yet we just accepted it was a part of football.

Suarez is different: he looks for players to be booked and sent off, he is a racist scumbag. Suarez is a cheat, plain and simple.
Steve Cotton
83   Posted 30/12/2011 at 18:06:43

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I can only think of Everton players going down with little or no contact about 3 times this season, compare that with the diving one(s) over the park where it is sometimes 3 or 4 times a game. often with a hand up feigning injury and more often with a gaggle of team mates straight to the ref demanding red cards...

Also there are too many ex-reds on the motd panel so they will more likely ignore repeated cheating from their own team and roundly condemn an Everton player at the first chance they get.

Finally for the record when Robbie Fowler won the penalty at Arsenal and apparently pleaded with the ref that it wasnt a penalty, well he will tell you to his face that he was appealing for the ref not to send him off, not to admit going down without being touched. It all got out of hand and he ended up a hero!!! he was more amazed than anyone..
Karl Meighan
84   Posted 31/12/2011 at 10:11:43

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Didn't he kick the floor being desperate to get a shot off after the good work getting into the box? Its rare i see are players commiting opponents and trying to attack the box without playing a square ball. I want to see more of it , Ossie was rewarded for being positive with the ref imo fooling himself not Ossie with him seeing Cattermole as the player tripping Osman.

Its very rare Cattermole doesn't kick people and Webb is probably still amazed that he never brought him down, oh well there is a first time for everything.
Eugene Ruane
85   Posted 31/12/2011 at 10:39:42

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Karl (84) - so the narked, exasperated face and both hands held up in the air while looking at the ref, was NOT to say "I was fouled!" but merely a sign of his disgust at himself for kicking the deck?

I have to say, on this thread, there is some of the most one-eyed bollocks I've ever read.

"Yeah but he's a BIGGER cheat" etc

And some of the descriptions of what 'happened' might have been written by former Iraq Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf

To 'comical' Karl and the rest - it doesn't make you a bad blue if you say what happened, rather than what you would LIKE to have happened.

As I said earlier, they ALL cheat, so it bothers me not one jot that Ossie took a dive and we got a pen.

Fact: We are cheated against MASSIVELY each time we play Chelsea, City, Liverpool, United etc, simply by virtue of their ability to outspend us by hundreds of millions.

THAT'S the cheating that concerns me, the cheating OFF the the park, not the petty shite that Sky peddles along the lines of.. 'Harry, WAS it over the line?'

All that nonsense imo simply distracts supporters from seeing how they (and their teams) are REALLY being cheated.
Brian Waring
86   Posted 31/12/2011 at 13:41:13

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There is one part of this debate that can be put to bed, Osman never got touched, there was no slight touch, there was no brush against his leg etc.

They have just shown replays on Gillette soccer saturday, and when Osman kicks the floor, the 2 players round him are at least half a yard away from him, even the lad diving in is nowhere near him.
Kevin Hudson
87   Posted 31/12/2011 at 14:21:45

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Cynical, blinkered stuff.

Inexplicably, some argue it WAS a pen, whilst those that know it wasn't, or shouldn't have been awarded, care not a jot that Osman's gamemanship fooled Webb, and cheated Sunderland out of 3 points.

Using the weak justification that (several) wrongs make a right, or that Leon 'isn't one of those types.'

For the record, I don't think he deliberately went to ground looking for it, but decided on the spur of the moment to try and con the ref. The cynics will argue that he was smart & that in (the mythical / Darwinian) "real world," it was the appropriate thing to do.

The very same people will be livid if this happens to us (in reverse) at the Hawthorns, and therefore in future, should not fill ToffeeWeb, or Goodison, with vitriol the next time a dodgy goal costs us points.

I don't entirely agree with his view, but Jon Cox states that football has no moral compass. Despite regularly bemoaning the state of the game, there are many otherwise decent, virtuous people on here who condone that fact, and implicitly contribute to the death of 'fair play.'

Well done.
Brian Waring
88   Posted 31/12/2011 at 14:48:04

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Kevin, I remember on here there were lads backing Pienaar when he was charged with drink driving, there were numerous posts on why he should be 'Forgiven'.
I remember someone saying something along the lines of "it's not as if he ran anyone over".
Shaun Sparke
89   Posted 31/12/2011 at 16:41:17

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And here endeth the lesson from the morally incorruptible conscious of toffeeweb.

Amen!
Jon Cox
90   Posted 31/12/2011 at 17:20:33

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Kev, as my old Gran used to say, "Alls fair in love and war"

To point out that football has no moral compass is not to say whether it's right or wrong. Ever since season 92/93 i.e. "Sky", footballers and more to the point managers and chairmen, whether imported or not, have worshipped at the alter of cash.

It's not about fairplay anymore it's about money and success. Morals merely being the first visitor to the dustbin.

A scenario for your goodself.

We are in the final of the F.A. Cup against Liver something or other and it's 0-0 in the 89th minute. The same thing happens to Ozzy in the box. It's identical. If he makes a fuss and gets the pen then we win 1-0 get the cup and qualify for Europe.

Scene 2. He doesn't make a fuss, we go into extra time and the shite put 2 past us and we leave with F.A.

In terms of morals the question has to be which scene are you?

Jon Cox
91   Posted 31/12/2011 at 17:59:55

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Tommy (81)

Would that be the F.As dubious wind panel ;-)
Julian Wait
92   Posted 01/01/2012 at 04:57:12

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If you've watched Ossie play enough, you know he doesn't dive ... and he doesn't even appeal unless he thinks he was fouled.

His reaction was consistent with when he THINKS he has been fouled. Really, I don't think he was cheating. I don't think he was fouled either.

But just because he didn't get fouled doesn't mean he was cheating.

To me, what he did was much less obviously cheating than those who throw themselves / their leg into a defender to draw a penalty, however naive the defender might be to allow them the opportunity.
Mike Gray
93   Posted 01/01/2012 at 19:18:51

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I've never read so much bollocks!! The guy is a cheating cunt, full stop!! No different from the next player!! Next time we lose to another cheating cunt diving in the box, think about the shit you are condoning!! And don't open your mouths again if we lose to a cheating cunt like Stevie G diving in the box (which we all know he does), because you are condoning his actions as well!!!!! Hypocrisy, simple as that!!

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