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Everton News, Season 2011-12

Rodwell red card a total travesty

01/10/2011 |  68 Comments: First  |  Last

Match Summary

Despite the similar disparities to last week in terms of the gulf in financial and playing resources in relation to Liverpool, as with City, no-one imagined that David Moyes could possibly repeat the same negative bus-parking anti-football in front of a fervent Goodison Crowd. After all, a part of the rationale was that Everton weren't at the Etihad to provide entertainment for a partisan City crowd...

Well, the imperative could not be more different with hopefully the first full house of the season keen to see the nasty neighbours put to the sword. Thankfully he elected to tart with a recognized striker in Louis Saha upfront, with Hibbert preferred over captain Neville and Osman set to assist Baines with the set-pieces.

It started with a hoof upfield that was returned and Hibbert fouled Downing. ut The Blues won an early corner off a weak deflected Fellaini shot.

It was the usual high intensity game of attrition from there on, A dreadful messed up clearance by Jagielka that Kuyt rescued and gave Suarez a golden headed chance he could only bumble into Howard with the goal gapping. At the other end, a good deep cross produced a trademark header that Cahill tried to power over Reina but he tipped it over the bar and Everton threatened from the ensuing corner, Distin controlling the ball superbly but firing over.

Saha tried to curl one in with power that screwed just wide as Everton looked to a structure some attack when they had possession, Baines and Osman winning a succession of corners, Coleman's shot easily blocked.

The game through exploded with another astounding red card when Rodwell clipped the ball past Suraez who ran on to his foot and cartwheeled over, referee Atkinson incredibly showed him a straight red, and it was not even a foul!!! The Goodison crowd were rightly apoplectic but at least it injected a much needed fire into Everton bellies.

Cahill was then booked for going in hard on Carragher with his foot high, and the determination was evident in every blue touch, determined to seek retribution for a heinous piece of refereeing. But Liverpool started to dominate possession and craft their attacks, with Everton having to be more defensive.

Fellaini gave away a dangerous free-kick but Adam could only power it into the wall. Everton did get forward but Hibbert's cross was hopeless. A poor challenge by Adam on Osman was greeted by loud screams for a card which were of course ignored by Atkinson.

Incredibly, a ridiculous challenge by Jagielka on Suarez in the corner of the area gave a way a totally unnecessary penalty to Liverpool that Kyut powered toward the corner but Howard leapt across and pushed it brilliantly around the post for Liverpool's first corner, much to the delight of an elated Goodison crowd, and upping the intensity of the game and the incredible atmosphere yet another three notches as half-time approached.

A superb snapshot by Adam from nothing flashed past Howard and off the underside of the bar and out as Atkinson ended the fractious half to a huge crescendo of boos and catcalls.

No changes at the half as Tim Howard was given a massive reception by the Gwladys Street. Saha was having trouble getting into the game but a foul on him by Lucas was finally awarded with a yellow card for Liverpool.

A great piece of play by Fellaini created a great chace for Saha but his shot was shockingly weak, off-target and dribbled past the post. But Saha redeemed himself with an excellent clearance of a Caroll header off the line. A succession of corners saw Liverpool almost score but for a simple but crucial save by Howard.

A quick free-kick went to Kuyt wide open but he powered it wide. Lucas then lashed one wide as Moyes decided to bring Drenthe on at the hour mark for Coleman, who was close to getting a card, the Dutchman immediately winning a good free-kick off Kyut that went to the back post where Fellaini was offside.

Saha was allowed to turn and fired a tremendous shot just wide of Reina's post. Fellaini went down with cramp and Dalglish brought on Gerrard and Bellamy in place of Adam and Downing with 25 mins left, which encouraged Moyes to switch the increasingly ineffective Osman with Captain Neville.

Some good work resulted in a cross to Saha that Carrahgher defended and from that, a sweeping move involving Bellamy's pace down the Everton right forced the Blues defence to backpedal alarmingly and Enrique beat Hibbert to set up Carroll for an easy goal. Cahill had a shot at the other end that was straight at Reina with Everton once again forced to change their approach to get anything from the game.

But Liverpool could now relax and Everton started to struggle, despite having possession, as they were unable to penetrate effectively. Moyes reacted by bringing Vellios on for the last 12 mins in place of Hibbert.

A dreadful mix-up between Distin and Baines getting in each others way after denying Suarez then gifted the Uruguayan with a simple shot for the second Liverpool goal as the spirits of Blue hearts visibly sagged. Baines resorted to shooting from distance.

Liverpool almost got a third with some silly defending from Everton, as Bellamy was pelted with objects while taking a corner that Gerrard almost scored from, but for a crucial deflection off Jagielka.

Drenthe had a pop from distance, right at Reina as the minutes ticked painfully away and Kuyt hit the post from a corner. A horrible end to a horrible, horrible game.

Original Source: ToffeeWeb Match Report Page

Comments

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Nick Entwistle
1   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:00:25

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Just what is the point? We didn't play Liverpool today, we played the ref. Again another derby goes the way the ref decides.

I'm going to break out the ice cream and watch Curb Your Enthusiasm and watch someone more unlucky than us.

Joey Brown
2   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:06:40

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I'll post here too... enjoy

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j426/joeybrown3/Vy8rcR1317480203.jpg
Tony Gee
3   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:15:15

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£40 average x 40,000...

We should ask Atkinson to pay it all back...

Football is dying in front of our very eyes.
Brian Waring
4   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:09:27

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Positive line-up by Moyes, and the lads put in a good shift, especially after going down to 10 men. The one thing we have going for us is something the Shite will never be able to buy: 'Class'.

The sending off was scandalous, so obviously Atkinson is a cunt for that; the thing is though, Fellaini and Hibbert could have easily both have seen red for very late tackles, and the pen was a pen.

I think we need to move away from the ref's a cheat, the Shite are cheats etc, because it just makes us look like were living up to our 'Bitters' tag.

The lads did us proud out there today, and Moyes deserves credit for going for it from the off; let's just take those positives from the game.
Sean Patton
5   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:14:02

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I think you called it Nick about the Clattenberg derby being on the same day as an England rugby match, the strange thing was I watched the incidents from that game last night on YouTube and what would you know 4 years on and Atkinshit does the same.

It is too fucking hard being an Everton fan at times because you get nothing back but, when you don't even get a fair crack of the whip, it is ten times worse.

I only hope the that the team use the injustice and cheating against them to go on a run like before and, if I ever meet that corrupt shitbag of a ref, I will do untold damage.
Neil Connolly
6   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:23:55

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An exciting opening 20 minutes ruined by probably the worst refereeing decision so far this season. When will referees be held accountable for such crass decisions, or more importantly, when will video replays be a part of the game of football?

It seemed that right from the start, Martin Atkinson was determined to referee the game in a manner that stopped Everton from playing their usual chasing, pressuring and challenging game. Should he be allowed to do that? Should the referee dictate whether certain tactics are allowed, even if those tactics are well within the bounds of the rules of the game?

It seems that Martin Atkinson sought to avert controversial decisions, but in fact, his preconceived ideas and his actions early in the game have led to a far more controversial outcome.

I don't imagine for one minute that the sending off will be upheld if challenged, but even if referee Martin Atkinson is sanctioned for being an idiot, he still irreparably changed the course of a Premier League game.
Richard Tarleton
7   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:23:21

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Just once, I want us to get the benefit of the referee's decisions. Rodwell was just the latest in a long list of travesties in recent seasons: Kuyt's assaulton Neville, Carragher's wrestling of Lescott in the box and even today's penalty could have been overlooked if it had happened in the other box.

I want to win a derby game when we're outplayed and score against the run of play, or when we're given the benefit of an outrageous decision, but those decisions only go to the "big" clubs. I've had so many disappointments in derby games since my first one in 1955 when the second division mob came to Goodison and won a cuptie 4-0. It's the game when we never seem to get an even break.

Dalziel Kane
8   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:19:38

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Won't be the first time match officials have done some questionable decisions against us in Redshite favor.

Can't really fault the players, it was an uncomfortable day weather-wise, and with such a prize at stake it was always going to get a little more heated. Fuck Liverpool really, fairly certain they won't be up to much this season, Dalglish is not the answer, and they won't have/can't have referees playing favorites every week, they are nothing special as Tottenham showed everybody the other week.

Won't be watching the highlights this night, think a few strong drinks will be much more fun than a handful of boring stone-faced turds and their expert analysis, I don't care what order they put us on.

A frustrating afternoon, referee was a shower of shit, but we should've seen that coming... I'm not the best of company right now.
Gaute Lie
9   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:16:56

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The red card was totally undeserved. I've seen the reeruns, and first, Rodwell is first to the ball. Second, Suarez seems to do the latin thing, ie, turn to acting when given the chance.

Anyway, totally undeserved red card.
So. Why does this idiot ref give a card to Rodwell, who had not played agressively earlier on either? Did his eyes do him a trick? Is he just stupid? Is he a Redshite? Or is he on the payroll for some gangster, hoodlum or maybe a ferry? Maybe Dalglish has some pics of them togehter in the sauna?

All I do know is this red card was not deserved. And I will blame the loss on the red card, given by this idiot Atkinson. Who's on the payroll of Dalglish, Vito Corleone and a gay midget.

Hate Atkinson!!
Ajay Gopal
10   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:29:38

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The decision effectively killed the game for the spectators (except for the Reds, I am sure). I really look forward to seeing Moyes's reaction ? he should call the referee a cheat even if it means him getting a 3 or 5 game ban or whatever.

Without meaning to sound anti-Moyes, I think Moyes should talk about fair refereeing BEFORE the big games to put some pressure on the refs instead of always talking about the gulf in finances.
Vincent Siow
11   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:42:34

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Fucked up refereeing-wise, anyone thought Saha had a good game? I think he held the ball up brilliantly, especially before the sending off, nice touches and some good shooting!!

Moyes should not be criticised in any way today, just wished he played this line-up more! Great game by the lads and they really tried hard and were winded in the end!
Steve Guy
12   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:46:20

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An absolute disgrace
Andy Crooks
13   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:46:46

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Ajay, Moyes should risk whatever fines and point out that the referee was unacceptable at premier level and that Suarez is a cheat. If he did that, you know what, I don't think I could ever slam him again. We can't talk about tactics or the team set-up because the game was destroyed by incompetence and cheating.
Jamie Tulacz
14   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:47:20

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Fuming doesn't even begin to describe it. It's happened that many times, you do start to think there's maybe something going on

Time for video refs, not that we'll get anyone forward-thinking enough to implement that. If I'd paid good money to have the game spoilt by a decision like that I'd be pretty pissed off.

Vincent (11) thought Saha did alright today too, got some decent long shots in. Not 100% convinced he's really a target man, but better than Cahill for that role.
Gerry Quinn
15   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:55:14

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In 50+ years of watching these games, I continue to be totally fed up with feeling cheated in these frickin derby matches. Why, oh why do these ridiculous and unfair decisions always go against us?

I thoroughly enjoyed a cracking first 23 minutes of fair and exciting play, then the match was ruined yet again by what can only be described as a biased decision... I can't and won't accept that tackle as a red card ? Moysie should do another "Clattenberg" and get that twat off our match referee list.

Love to hear what the FA thought about that! Why, within minutes did he not do the same to Hibbo and Cahill ? they WERE fouls?

Jalil Noor
16   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:00:36

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The lads did well tonight. Moyes did well tonight, the crowd did well tonight except the throwing shit (but I could understand why) but the referee... fuck it I'm just going to get angry again...
Steve Fletcher
17   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:05:42

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Gerry... nail, head. IF Rodwell's tackle was a red that game, and any other in the Prem, would end up 8 a side minimum.... Questionable decision in more ways than one.
Roman Sidey
18   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:53:30

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I think in the past 8 years I've seen maybe 2 Derbies where the Ref hasn't directly influenced the outcome in a scandalous way.

Still don't like 4-5-1, but will take 1 striker over none as a sort of compromise with Moyes in team selection. The team he put out there actually looked pretty good and obviously switched on for the match.

Don't want to lament on the red because it's all we're going to hear about, and, quite frankly, makes me ill to think about it again.

What needs addressing is Phil Jagielka. Today he was woeful. His tackling and marking have been his strength his whole career, and they aren't bad, but not as good as it used to be. His work on the ball, however, is worse than Hibbo has ever been. Completely unacceptable at this level, and as captain, he should be expected to put in a much better shift than he did today.
Simon Harris
19   Posted 01/10/2011 at 15:59:42

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He couldn't wait to get the red card out. Didn't even give himself a second to think about.

He ruined what upto that point was a good game, and he should be forced to come out and apologise to all the Evertonians who paid good money to watch a game of football, not Martin Atkinson.

Moyes said he won't contest the decision, I hope he reconsiders.
Paul Columb
20   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:00:53

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Could you believe it???.....well yes...even expect it.

After last week's disgrace, I was pretty optimistic seeing the line-up, other than hoping for Drenthe in place of Ossie. The Shite were truly shite and Atkinson's decision was the game decider.

Fair play to Moyes for a having a go; almost expected him to play for the point second half. Despite the result, head is higher than last week. Laughable for that crowd to think they'll get anywhere this season.

Roman Sidey
21   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:12:35

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Simon, didn't realise Moyes had said he wouldn't contest the decision. Absolutely gobsmacked at that. I was quite happy with Moyes today (except subbing Coleman for Neville), but if he doesn't push this issue, he needs to go. Complete lack of fight and logic.
Chris Andrews
22   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:14:09

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Would like Moyes to whip out his cheque book, pay the FA his fine, then tell the press exactly what he thinks of one of the worst decisions we'll see this year.
Dalziel Kane
23   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:08:53

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I've just realized this is the same beaut who officiated the FA Cup Final in May, only two yellow cards to show for it though that day, both to Stoke City players as it happens.

Also, he was in charge when Liverpool beat Chelsea 3-1 for the 2006 Charity Shield and three Chelsea players were cautioned.

In all Atkinfuck has shown '42' red cards in the last six seasons! This guy really does love the color red I'm guessing.
Nick Armitage
24   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:20:48

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Poll

Clattenberg

Atkinson

I could go on but I really can't be arsed.........

Roman Sidey
25   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:26:37

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That's just it, Nick. We had Clattenberg taken off the fixture, and not even LIverpool supporters could deny it was due, but if it happens to Atkinson, who's next.
Lars Andersson
26   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:25:23

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Everton were the better team until the sending of. I hope someone in the future will take the red card and break the leg of of the cheat Suarez.
Nick Armitage
27   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:26:32

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By the way, fair play to Charlie Adam in pushing Rodwell off the pitch after the red.

It is Jagielka's job to do that otherwise bans get extended. I would also like to add that Jagielka was shit today ? don't rate him; never have, never will.
Paul Columb
28   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:34:06

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Nick... pre-injury, I thought Jagielka was worth his wages but I have to admit I was hoping Arsenal were going to pay over the top for him this summer. I felt bad for Distin on the 2nd goal. He's been immense.
Andy Crooks
29   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:39:44

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Agree, Nick. Jagielka was very poor. Heitinga and Distin next. The failure to cash in on a pedestrian hoofer whilst selling the only creativity we have was poor management.
Nick Armitage
30   Posted 01/10/2011 at 16:40:55

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Paul

Jagielka's poor distribution and lack of leadership have nothing to do with his injury and personally I didn't rate him before he was injured. He was truly found out against Spain during his first England cap.

I personally don't like his style of play, he invites pressure onto the line by allowing players on to him. He hasn't got enough pace to go tight, but I do have to admit he doesn't get turned often.

If you look at Johnny H who defends the area in front of him, he wins the ball and PASSES it. Don't forget we played some great football when Jagielka was crocked and Heitinga came in.
Ian Bennett
31   Posted 01/10/2011 at 17:02:49

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Nick û all 3 centre backs are no great shakes. Distin gets caught out, Jags makes the occassional ricket, whilst heitinga lacks height/pace and gives away daft free kicks.

We look like we will concede in every match ? and don't have 2 goals in us a match, which means it will be a long season.
Martin Handley
32   Posted 01/10/2011 at 17:03:59

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Look chaps I'm as pissed off as you but am I suprised? No. Aitkinson is one of the new breed of refs who think that they are the star, not the players. The FA will back him to the hilt and probably add an extra 2 game ban onto Rodders because we've had the cheek to appeal the card! And we're not Man Ure. So instead I'll give you my ratings for the players today.

Howard-9 Superb neither goal his fault.
Hibbert-6 Always puts in a shift.
Jagielka-6 Solid.
Distin-4 Would've been 7 but second goal horror.
Baines-4 Would've been 6 but at fault for both goals.
Rodwell-6 Played well until comedy ref ended his afternoon.
Fellaini-6 Played his part, some good play.
Cahiil-8 Kept going, nearly scored twice, constant pain to redshite.
Osman-7- Very good until injured late on.
Saha-7 Best display for a long while again went close on at least 3 occaisions I remember.
Drenthe-6 Looked lively.
Neville-* Not on long enough.
Velios-* Ditto.

I'm sure you'll have a different opinion to me.

Denis Byrne
33   Posted 01/10/2011 at 17:12:23

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Went the bookies before the game and asked what odds on us having a player sent off and a shite penalty in the first half ... 'No bets being taken on certs mate'.
Kunal Desai
34   Posted 01/10/2011 at 17:22:20

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Clattenburg, Webb, Atkinson ? they all need to be fucking shipped off to the continent to LEARN how to actually referee, we produce such sub-standard and shite referees in this country, summed up and embarrassed when your World Cup representative hands out 3 yellow cards. The idiots need to go abroad and then come back to the UK once fully trained.
Yew Hung
35   Posted 01/10/2011 at 17:24:23

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Really gutted after seeing Everton being robbed of having a fair contest in derby. And this is not the first time. I am sure the referee was bribed.
Jon Cox
36   Posted 01/10/2011 at 18:25:29

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Dominic. Agreed. I just think it was just a little bit coincidental that a ref who handed out more reds than anyone else was put in charge of out game.

By all accounts there's just as big a derby game going on in North London tomorrow. But no. Lets give this ego maniac the Merseyside game instead. TWAT.

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't a straight red given when the tackle sees two feet off the ground? You know, like Gerrard did against us some years back. What a great game of football it was too until we were cynically extracted from the game.

You can see a pattern here as well with the City game. Three yellows in the first what, 20 mins. Well that certainly stopped us defending as well as we could.

Corrupt? You bet. Thats why we'll never see video reffing to get that all important decision "Correct"

I mean we couldn't have S.Korea v Wales in a World Cup Final could we.

What would the "sponsors" say?

And oh, to have had a deal on Jags and kept Arteta.

Jon Cox
37   Posted 01/10/2011 at 19:11:52

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Kunal (35) I think Siberia is the place you're looking for.
Chris Butler
38   Posted 01/10/2011 at 19:11:02

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Today's derby was disgraceful, it embarrased Merseyside. Never have I been to a derby that poor before, with two poor sides on the pitch.

Liverpool fans are just pathetic as usual, they only sing when they're winning. Everton fans were great today. I'm not bothered about the coin throwing, I wish it was a bullet that hit Suarez, the cheat.

I'm annoyed in the manner we conceded both goals, both of them were just pathetic goals to concede. Our defence now looks awful, Jags is useless, he's just another Yobo.

The referee simply got everything wrong today, he is simply useless. Everybody is going on about the sending off but he made numerous mistakes. I'm fully expecting the Echo to say Liverpool deserved to win and, when we went down to 10 men, they did deserve to win.

In my opinion, we were set up to lose, I'm not sure with 11 men we'd've won. I predicted a 2-0 defeat and it came true. Liverpool won without having to play particularly good which was worrying.

I'm very worried about the next few games as it's obvious we can't defend or score goals. We didn't really get close to scoring.

Bren Connor
39   Posted 01/10/2011 at 19:28:21

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Even the Spanish version of The Sun is on our side: Headline is something like "Liverpool and the ref rile (piss off) Everton":?

http://www.marca.com/2011/10/01/futbol/futbol_internacional/premier_league/1317476475.html
Martin Handley
40   Posted 01/10/2011 at 19:56:55

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Sorry chaps forgot Seamus Coleman-7- gave left of redshite defence more than enough trouble.
Maybe it's time for the foreign ref in the prem experiment.
What do you guys think. It may work as they would definately have no bias either way.
Peter Cummo
41   Posted 01/10/2011 at 19:34:43

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I think if it wasn't 'them', any other team would have been embarrassed by what went on at Goodisn today. We saw a fellow 'professional' play-acting to get another sent off: although Rodwell clearly won the ball, this little con merchant leapt into the air like Springheels Jack and 'rolled around in agony' for the few seconds it took him to see the red. He wasn't even treated for his 'injury' and of course got away with it.

Moyes has a history of not appealing red cards, especially when replays showed the tackle wasn't even worth a yellow, but surely he must this time... up till then, the game was being enjoyed by everyone, proved by the cameras panning around the mixed blue and red shirts in the crowd.

We were up at dawn here in Ontario as the game was live at 7:45 am, and the Blues were playing some good stuff, but what else can be said about a referee who put an end to any chance we had of getting a result by probably one of the worst decision I certainly have ever seen?

One of the game's commentators also stated the red, or even a yellow wasn't warranted; his name: Steve McMannaman, nuff said.
Colin Gee
42   Posted 01/10/2011 at 20:04:28

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Nick 24# You forgot that horrible t*** Clive Thomas.
When was the last time Everton got a dodgy decision in our favour in a derby game?
I for one am struggling to think of one?
Matt Traynor
43   Posted 01/10/2011 at 19:39:18

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Suarez is the latest in a long line of (mainly) foreign mercenaries who think gamesmanship is akin to sportsmanship.

The only microscopic crumb of comfort is that all the RS I know who berated him as "neutrals" for his "Hand-sen-esque" intervention in the WC against Ghana, now think he's the best thing since sliced bread.

Cunts just doesn't seem strong enough.
Fran Mitchell
44   Posted 01/10/2011 at 20:43:13

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I was working so didn't see the game. After work, I went onto the Guardian website to check the score.

0-2, and an unfair red-card to Rodwell.

My reaction, 'Meh'.

Ed Fitzgerald
45   Posted 01/10/2011 at 22:50:29

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The list of decisions that they have had against us just goes on and on. It goes back to the 70s.

The referee cost us the game today and despite investing bloody millions they were bloody awful today.

Roman Sidey
46   Posted 02/10/2011 at 00:24:18

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Martin, I appreciate you goin to the effort and rating the players, but I believe you're a bit off, and being very generous. Firstly, no player on our side was above a 6. Secondly, that was one of the worst performances Jags has put in since he became our first choice centre half.

For the record, I usually don't rate him at all, but Fellaini was our best today.
Ian Tunstead
47   Posted 02/10/2011 at 00:33:04

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Haha Nick 30

"He was truly found out against Spain"

Found out against the World and European Champions! What a disgrace!
Kevin Hudson
48   Posted 02/10/2011 at 00:50:21

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Agree with Ed,

The worst Liverpool side I've seen for years. Despite expecting the inevitable, there was a small, but sneaking, suspicion we could actually have done them today.

Bet Atkinson's sleeping like a baby right now..
Andy Crooks
49   Posted 02/10/2011 at 01:03:38

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Roman, I agree. I thought Fellaini was excellent today. Jagielka seems such a likeable bloke and committed Evertonian but he was poor today. really poor.
Jon Cox
50   Posted 02/10/2011 at 06:07:30

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Ian,

Whether Spain or Liverpool, found out is found out.

End of.
Joe Bibb
51   Posted 02/10/2011 at 09:17:07

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We have been 'ROBBED' so often in the 'Derby' this game should not have been on Match Of The Day but on CRIMEWATCH.
Mick Gallagher
52   Posted 02/10/2011 at 11:52:40

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Something has got to change with the centre halves we need clean sheets. I dont just mean because of yesterday but all season. The only clean sheet was Blackburn and we were fucking lucky to get that.
Nick Armitage
53   Posted 02/10/2011 at 12:20:54

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Ian Tunstead

The reason jags was found against Spain was his sloppy distribution leading directly to Spain's first goal. In that game if he had found a white shirt, like he should have, the result may have been different. You cannot give the ball away against that quality of opponent, ditto on the Prem, yet Moyes persists with him and we carry on leaking goals.

Teams know how to apply pressure to him and he crumbles time and time again. I played centre half for years and like I said earlier, don't rate him; never have, never will.
David Mathieson
54   Posted 02/10/2011 at 12:11:23

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Talk of centre halfs what the hell was Distin doing for the 2nd he is very poor.
Roman Sidey
55   Posted 02/10/2011 at 17:21:05

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Fair enough, David. Distin was at fault for the second goal. I think it's fair to say that it was a momentary lapse of concentration which Baines should shoulder some of the blame for.

Jags, however, is getting more and more unreliable and prone to mistakes on a regualar basis. Not to mention, as has been already, his ability witht he ball at his feet leave a lot to be desired - an ability that Distin and Heitinga have in excess.
Ian Tunstead
56   Posted 02/10/2011 at 17:31:21

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John 50, every other player in the world has been found out against Spain when put against each other.

Nick 53 Who do you want to replace him with...? Heitinga? Didn't you see the World cup final? He was also found out against Spain.
Seamus Murphy
57   Posted 02/10/2011 at 19:42:33

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Ian - yes. Heitinga.
Jamie Barlow
58   Posted 02/10/2011 at 21:03:41

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Good call Ian@56.
Roman Sidey
59   Posted 02/10/2011 at 21:58:14

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Ian, if I remember correctly, Spain didn't score a goal while Heitinga was on the field, and his red card was questionable. As soon as he's fit enough, he needs to be in our squad, as he should have been in every match since he signed for us.
Ian Tunstead
60   Posted 02/10/2011 at 22:21:03

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Well it's a matter of opinion, but i thought he deserved to be sent off. He couldn't cope against Spain so had cary out a proffesional foul to stop them and was consequently sent off as they were clean through on goal. It might have been 0-0 when he was on the field but if he hadn't done what he did it is likely Spain would have scored given the quality of their attacking players.

I am not trying to citicise him, as it is no shame to be found out against the World Champions and the same goes for Jaggs.

I agree he should be in the squad, and given Jaggs recent mistakes maybe he should be in with a shout of making the 1st team, but to knock jaggs for being found out using the example of Spain is absurd.
Dick Fearon
61   Posted 02/10/2011 at 22:36:51

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Jags is not a good captain. His desperate last minute boot the ball anywhere shows poor positional play while being a bad example to team mates. My view is confined to watching every Everton game on TV and not once have I seen jags by word or action instruct or advise a team mate.

All good captains display a kind of authority that Jags lacks. Where was he when Cahill was struggling to restrain Leiva and Carragher from getting in the ref's earhole during the Rodwell farce? Why did Adam and not Jags try to console Rodders?

My recollection is that Jags was no where to be seen.

Roman Sidey
62   Posted 02/10/2011 at 23:02:57

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Fair enough, Ian. If Johnny is fit though, Jags needs to be dropped. The sad thing is, looking through the squad, I think Cahill is now the only other player you could give the armband to if Pip isn't in the side, and even Tim isn't a certain starter/finisher. I would honestly get Heitinga back in the side and give him the captaincy.

Dick is right. Jags should have been front and centre during the Rodwell debacle, but wasn't.
Ian Tunstead
63   Posted 03/10/2011 at 00:03:05

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No way would i want to see Heitinga as Captain after some of his interviews, the white flag to Barcelona springs to mind. You might think it but its disrespectful to his club to say it. Some of the challanges i have seen him shit out of has also caused me to lose a lot of respect for him aswell. Not Captaincy material for Everton in my book.
Roman Sidey
64   Posted 03/10/2011 at 10:47:03

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As I said, Ian, if Neville is not in the 11, and Jags needs to be dropped, who is a captain in our side?
Ian Tunstead
65   Posted 03/10/2011 at 14:58:34

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Distin, Cahill or Baines.
Andrew Laird
66   Posted 03/10/2011 at 15:11:55

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Howard is the most obvious captain, he plays every game. He also communicates with the defence. Jagielka should be sitting on the bench with Neville.
Andrew Ellams
67   Posted 03/10/2011 at 15:32:41

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Distin for captain, even if Jags and Neville are in the side
Roman Sidey
68   Posted 03/10/2011 at 22:08:51

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I thought over Big Syl - he'd be alright, and I guess Moyes is almost definitely likely to give the armband to a defender if he ever changes it.
Baines - no way. Not a captain... yet.

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