Everton News, Season 2011-12
Echo reports on Blue Union march
Stung into actually providing news coverage of the second Blue Union march, Echo reporter Greg O'Keefe witnessed hundreds of Everton fans marching in protest at the Everton Board of Directors and stagnation they have overseen at the club.
130 Comments: An estimated 250 supporters of The Blue Union gathered at the council field on Spellow Lane, near to the Everton FC megastore, at 2pm before setting off on their second official march.
Their numbers eventually swelled significantly as others joined, holding up leaflets and waving banners with messages to Everton Chairman, Bill Kenwright.
Chanting, ?Let Go If You Love The Club' and ?There's Only One Billy Liar', the group did a circuit of nearby streets before dispersing by the Winslow Pub next to Goodison Park.
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At less than 1% of the match day attendance, I'm not sure that it matters either way Tom.
Pathetic and negative! I have never seen a more closed minded bunch of people! Yes we know there are problems but the 'Blue Union' are achieving nothing. They remind me of the 'flying pickets' who travelled round the country with sole purpose of bringing down an industry, totally counter productive!
How do you figure Jean?
I found the Flying Pickets melodious and calming.
Started off smaller... may have gotten bigger by the sound of it.
I say well done to those who braved the ire of their peers to stand and be counted for the cause. I sense that BU support has perhaps reached a bit of a plateau and it would need something massive to cause fence-sitters to join the throng since last time. The leaked/hacked e.mails were clearly not enough to make much of a difference... while the elevation of Rodwell (such a pity he didn't play today) and the Fellaini signing may have persuaded a few that all was not quite as bad as it has been painted.
So that would be 2-1 to Everton FC... !!! ;))
No doubt we'll be hearing from the usual naysayers...
I say well done to those who braved the ire of their peers to stand and be counted for the cause. I sense that BU support has perhaps reached a bit of a plateau and it would need something massive to cause fence-sitters to join the throng since last time. The leaked/hacked e.mails were clearly not enough to make much of a difference... while the elevation of Rodwell (such a pity he didn't play today) and the Fellaini signing may have persuaded a few that all was not quite as bad as it has been painted.
So that would be 2-1 to Everton FC... !!! ;))
No doubt we'll be hearing from the usual naysayers...
Jean. I say well done to the people of the Blue Union.
Just heard Bill confirming that there are interested parties. Last year, he said, because of the recession, nobody had any money to buy a football club.
Why is it that the local media wont allow air space or columnes in our press for people like Colin Fitzpatrick or Tom Hughes to put their side of what is going on at EFC?
Just heard Bill confirming that there are interested parties. Last year, he said, because of the recession, nobody had any money to buy a football club.
Why is it that the local media wont allow air space or columnes in our press for people like Colin Fitzpatrick or Tom Hughes to put their side of what is going on at EFC?
I was there... a bit put off at first as the numbers were poor. After walking past The Oak to loads of applause, the numbers swelled a good load.
I never went last time but outside Goodison a few lads said it was more than last time ? a superb turnout, it really was.
I never went last time but outside Goodison a few lads said it was more than last time ? a superb turnout, it really was.
'One man and his dog', as the fans liason officer aptly described it...
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385364_250141968376171_205517092838659_719884_1671326803_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385364_250141968376171_205517092838659_719884_1671326803_n.jpg
There must have been at least 2,000 there when it reached Goodison Road. Well done, lads!!!
I was on the demo, I would have estimated about 500. As Paul said, there was a great reception from those enjoying a pre-match pint at The Oak, which was encouraging.
Jean, you say that we know the problems and the BU have achieved nothing. In fact, I think what the BU have achieved is that now we have more of an idea of what the problems are: people are talking about the valuation of the club, where the Other Operating Costs go... it is becoming apparent with solid evidence (these emails the latest, the Kenwright interview the most tangible) just how inept and dysfunctional the management of the club is. Indeed the very fact we are moving away from talk of investment to talk of sales is an achievement in itself.
Nobody surely expected the BU arrive on the scene and immediately the Board sells up. This was always going to be a long campaign. I think the BU needs to do more to educate and inform the average matchgoing Evertonian who does not read this or other websites and who gets their Everton news and opinions from the Echo, and that should be the next stage. But I have no doubt that in just a few months the BU have set the agenda and focussed on the real issues ? that is a success and good luck to them.
Jean, you say that we know the problems and the BU have achieved nothing. In fact, I think what the BU have achieved is that now we have more of an idea of what the problems are: people are talking about the valuation of the club, where the Other Operating Costs go... it is becoming apparent with solid evidence (these emails the latest, the Kenwright interview the most tangible) just how inept and dysfunctional the management of the club is. Indeed the very fact we are moving away from talk of investment to talk of sales is an achievement in itself.
Nobody surely expected the BU arrive on the scene and immediately the Board sells up. This was always going to be a long campaign. I think the BU needs to do more to educate and inform the average matchgoing Evertonian who does not read this or other websites and who gets their Everton news and opinions from the Echo, and that should be the next stage. But I have no doubt that in just a few months the BU have set the agenda and focussed on the real issues ? that is a success and good luck to them.
I got the impression many walking and watching felt uncomfortable at first (me included) but once up Spellow Lane that changed and loads joined in. There are many more who want to but for fear of shit, well there was none of that today; it will take time but the numbers will grow.
From an Evertonian in Singapore who couldn't be there, well done everyone! Sounds like a sizeable turnout. Rome was not built in a day, so keep fighting the good fight!
To the naysayers: The real negativity lies in you who sit on your arse and criticise when you have the chance to push for change. Even if you do not think that real change will eventuate or that the removal of Kenwright is a bad idea (and you are entitled to those opinions), the question is, what have YOU done to try and make things better for the club, especially since you agree too that there are problems with the club?
No, the real "close-minded bunch" of people are those who refuse to accept that positive change could result from those who are willing to take up the fight and push for change. Instead, you continue to do jack-all and hope for Bill to deliver a solution or plan to take us forward (in spite of 10 years of being unable to do so) without considering alternative solutions. So, here's a life-tip: open up your mind to the possibilities that change can bring instead of wallowing in the status quo in the belief that direct action will "achieve nothing". That, truly, is what is meant by "pathetic and negative". (Jean #3)
To the naysayers: The real negativity lies in you who sit on your arse and criticise when you have the chance to push for change. Even if you do not think that real change will eventuate or that the removal of Kenwright is a bad idea (and you are entitled to those opinions), the question is, what have YOU done to try and make things better for the club, especially since you agree too that there are problems with the club?
No, the real "close-minded bunch" of people are those who refuse to accept that positive change could result from those who are willing to take up the fight and push for change. Instead, you continue to do jack-all and hope for Bill to deliver a solution or plan to take us forward (in spite of 10 years of being unable to do so) without considering alternative solutions. So, here's a life-tip: open up your mind to the possibilities that change can bring instead of wallowing in the status quo in the belief that direct action will "achieve nothing". That, truly, is what is meant by "pathetic and negative". (Jean #3)
500... 1,000... Doesn't fuckin matter. You were there, folks, and I take my hat off to you.
Something needs to be done to change the direction this club is heading, and the BU can hold their heads up and say they didn't shy away from it.
Proud Evertonian.
Something needs to be done to change the direction this club is heading, and the BU can hold their heads up and say they didn't shy away from it.
Proud Evertonian.
More pensioners having a ciggie outside the bingo than on your pathetic march..
Any applause for BK today?
Not that I noticed David. His grid was shown a couple of times. The grey haired gobshite.
Steady on, Colin!
Ok David. Er no there wasn't.
Like I said on a previous link...
Game changing....
Game changing....
Kevin
Maybe it was the 1990s flirtations with relegation that led to Evertonians current passivity or maybe it was driven by Kenwright and the clubs insistence that we must tolerate mediocrity due to the finances of modern day football but I applaud Blue Union for caring enough to protest.
I am heartily sick of the pervasive atmosphere that this is the best we can expect. With the exception of a few brief glimmers when Arteta and Pienaar were playing well, we have watched god-awful football for the vast majority of the 1990s and during Moyes reign. When Moyes was first appointed it was fair enough for him to steady the ship... but there has been no progression ? either in his thinking or off the field under Kenwright?s dubious stewardship of the club.
Perhaps it?s a generational difference but there was a time when tactics like today would have been greeted with boos, catcalls, and a precipitation of cushions. It is time to shake off the torpor and start making ourselves heard if we care enough. Don?t deride the Blue Union for having the audacity to protest. I hate to say it but the other lot across the park made enough noise to drive changes at their club.
Maybe it was the 1990s flirtations with relegation that led to Evertonians current passivity or maybe it was driven by Kenwright and the clubs insistence that we must tolerate mediocrity due to the finances of modern day football but I applaud Blue Union for caring enough to protest.
I am heartily sick of the pervasive atmosphere that this is the best we can expect. With the exception of a few brief glimmers when Arteta and Pienaar were playing well, we have watched god-awful football for the vast majority of the 1990s and during Moyes reign. When Moyes was first appointed it was fair enough for him to steady the ship... but there has been no progression ? either in his thinking or off the field under Kenwright?s dubious stewardship of the club.
Perhaps it?s a generational difference but there was a time when tactics like today would have been greeted with boos, catcalls, and a precipitation of cushions. It is time to shake off the torpor and start making ourselves heard if we care enough. Don?t deride the Blue Union for having the audacity to protest. I hate to say it but the other lot across the park made enough noise to drive changes at their club.
What do you mean by ''game changing'' Liam?
KH #15"More pensioners having a ciggie outside the bingo than on your pathetic march.."
The only pathetic thing here is that comment. Pointlessly derogatory.
I assume you do actually support Everton ?
Assuming you are, whilst you don't have to agree with the march / protest / BU, slagging off fellow supporters is bang out of order.
The only pathetic thing here is that comment. Pointlessly derogatory.
I assume you do actually support Everton ?
Assuming you are, whilst you don't have to agree with the march / protest / BU, slagging off fellow supporters is bang out of order.
Outstanding work today. The pressure is telling. Keep it up
0.0002% of our fan base marching for change. Less on this march than the last one.
That's what I mean by game changing...
That's what I mean by game changing...
I had a link sent for a blue kipper forum from a mate today. Put a comment on to suggest that we have been repeatedly lied to by the board and when my post appeared, it had been edited to something completely different. Ive never been a fan of blue kipper to be honest but aside from Michael correcting the odd typo, I've never seen this done before. Who runs bk? Are they in the clubs pocket?
First off, I've been a Blue and going to Goodison for 40 years so I think I am well entitled to my opinion. Secondly, the kopites got what they wanted as most of their fans where behind any protest; ours aren't as they can clearly see Blue Union are a joke and are only really saying the same thing Bill Kenwright is ? so what's the point?
I would have thought the numbers on the second march would have increased and not decreased. Says it all really.
I would have thought the numbers on the second march would have increased and not decreased. Says it all really.
If you really think it's just 0.0002% of our fan base fella, you are very much mistaken.
When Bill's gone and things improve, hang your head in shame.
When Bill's gone and things improve, hang your head in shame.
Remember the well known quote:
"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
So shame on those Evertonians who simply sit on their backsides and moan about those who want their beloved club to recapture their former glory. Well done the Blue Union.
"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
So shame on those Evertonians who simply sit on their backsides and moan about those who want their beloved club to recapture their former glory. Well done the Blue Union.
Mick, well said.
I am all for the BU. We aint lost a match that they have marched before yet!!!!!!!!!
I don't know how many of you guys where on Goodison Rd when the march arrived at the Wilmslow but there was nowhere 350 never mind a thousand and only a few where chanting, the rest were just walking along holding leaflets aloft.
I was hoping there would be a lot more; there were also a fair few people shouting "Dickheads" at them.
I was hoping there would be a lot more; there were also a fair few people shouting "Dickheads" at them.
Sorry I meant 0.00002%
Dead clever Liam. You're wrong.
Mick # 29
We are talking about football so to use terms like "evil" do your cause no good.
Most Evertonians know that we need a new owner and that we don't have a pot to piss in... but then, most Evertonians don't think that Kenwright is some sort of Satan either.
We are talking about football so to use terms like "evil" do your cause no good.
Most Evertonians know that we need a new owner and that we don't have a pot to piss in... but then, most Evertonians don't think that Kenwright is some sort of Satan either.
Let's assume (optimistically) that there were 1000 people on the march today. The attendance was 31,000 with say 30,000 blues. So we are talking about just over 3% of fans who feel strongly enough to protest today. And let's not forget those 30,000 people didn't have to make a special effort to go on this protest today, given that it was being held at a location they were already going to. So what can we draw from this?
It could be that most people are apathetic.
It could be that most people don't actually agree with BU
It could be that BU have failed to get their message across to fans
Or it could be a combination of all 3.
It could be that most people are apathetic.
It could be that most people don't actually agree with BU
It could be that BU have failed to get their message across to fans
Or it could be a combination of all 3.
Fuckn ell Liam
Have you worked out what our fanbase is if 300, say, is 0.00002 %?
Have you worked out what our fanbase is if 300, say, is 0.00002 %?
I respect their efforts but do feel BU come across as trying to be far too reasonable, which ends up a little wishy-washy. The component groups probably have a clearer identity individually which runs the risk of becoming watered down when working in combination. However, in such grim times, pressure must be applied to the Board in the hope of achieving change. Well done to all who had the courage to turn up & march.
Chris, as a very interesting aside, I was on the march today for the second time but running late as my son wasn't well whilst supermarket shopping so arrived not for the start but its progress down Goodison Road and can say it was quite vocal, well behaved and not once did I hear any of the fans stood at the side of the road shout any abuse at those on it and indeed a fair few joining in the chants of "Let go if you love the club."
I'd be inclined to think along the lines that, whilst many won't actually take part in the full march, there are a significant number who will and did applaud it. The BU never claim to speak for every single Evertonian ? just as a voice for likeminded Evertonians who agree and follow what they are doing.
I'm amused but not surprised at some of the myopic and childish remarks against the march but if people don't want to join in, no-one is holding a gun to your head. Unlike what happens in the club, you do have a voice outside of it for expressing your concerns, if you wish to do so.
I'd be inclined to think along the lines that, whilst many won't actually take part in the full march, there are a significant number who will and did applaud it. The BU never claim to speak for every single Evertonian ? just as a voice for likeminded Evertonians who agree and follow what they are doing.
I'm amused but not surprised at some of the myopic and childish remarks against the march but if people don't want to join in, no-one is holding a gun to your head. Unlike what happens in the club, you do have a voice outside of it for expressing your concerns, if you wish to do so.
I attended the march today, was initially a little worried by the turn out on the council field at 1:45pm; however, the numbers increased and a good reception from those outside The Oak and up Spellow Lane.
One thing for sure: Evertonians are not natural protesters, just as we are not the best at singing. A couple of my mates are fully behind the aims of Blue Union but are not keen on joining in the spectacle of a march. The fight goes on... and thankfully the Blues won today.
One thing for sure: Evertonians are not natural protesters, just as we are not the best at singing. A couple of my mates are fully behind the aims of Blue Union but are not keen on joining in the spectacle of a march. The fight goes on... and thankfully the Blues won today.
Neil, regarding BlueKipper, one fact that I did notice from the e.mail gate was that their mouthpiece Michael Durkin (aka Mickey Blue Eyes) was on the list of potential supporters when Ian Ross was looking to maximise positive spin in the run up to the first Blue Union march. Read into that what you will.
I wish I could've been there today to march but I couldn't make it. Keep it going, lads, the real problem at the club are the fans who accept what is happening now.
Think back to three or four years ago: we were two maybe three players short of breaking the top 4 and winning honours but our current board failed us, and now we're declining badly; the BU are voicing that and I for one am with them all the way.
On another note, did anyone else think we were shite today? We won, and a vital win it was, but it seems to me Moyes won't ever change. Wolves are the worst team I have watched us play so far and for long periods we struggled badly. Kenwright and Moyes out! ? it has to be both as I feel one won't while the other is still there.
Think back to three or four years ago: we were two maybe three players short of breaking the top 4 and winning honours but our current board failed us, and now we're declining badly; the BU are voicing that and I for one am with them all the way.
On another note, did anyone else think we were shite today? We won, and a vital win it was, but it seems to me Moyes won't ever change. Wolves are the worst team I have watched us play so far and for long periods we struggled badly. Kenwright and Moyes out! ? it has to be both as I feel one won't while the other is still there.
Most blues I know want to have a pint before the game. They also agree the liar / actor Kenwright has to go.
They won't go on the march though, because they are on a day off, enjoying a day out. So if you want to just compare numbers on a march to people who want a change at Everton, you are clueless.
Compare the numbers on marches against pension changes in the public sector to how many who voted to strike.
Stop spouting bollocks.
They won't go on the march though, because they are on a day off, enjoying a day out. So if you want to just compare numbers on a march to people who want a change at Everton, you are clueless.
Compare the numbers on marches against pension changes in the public sector to how many who voted to strike.
Stop spouting bollocks.
Numbers at this stage don't really matter... IT'S A FOCUS GROUP. That's what it is there for and it is doing just that. Getting the situation (can't actually say facts coz that is part of the problem) into the public arena.
We had an Echo Reporter, we are up from 0.02% to 3.0%
Keep it going, lads.
After glancing at the headline, I read this report first. Back to the match report now and then watch the delayed coverage at lunchtime.
We had an Echo Reporter, we are up from 0.02% to 3.0%
Keep it going, lads.
After glancing at the headline, I read this report first. Back to the match report now and then watch the delayed coverage at lunchtime.
Good on them, I say... They want answers to legitimate questions. We have very rich men on the board or linked (ie, Green) and we are still staring at an abyss.
Good luck, BU.
Good luck, BU.
Once again, well done BU ? the march was another success.
Those of you who don`t believe in the BU and think Kenwright is doing all he can for the future well-being of our club, then go and form your own We Love Billy Bullshit group ? youse will be front page on the Echo every night.
Those of you who don`t believe in the BU and think Kenwright is doing all he can for the future well-being of our club, then go and form your own We Love Billy Bullshit group ? youse will be front page on the Echo every night.
Peter, thanks for that. I suspected as much when I saw the post had the critical detail about BK being a liar removed.
Always thought it was a low rent site anyway.
Always thought it was a low rent site anyway.
Fair play to the lads who feel the need to march and make a stand, but I really don't think it will work.
The club really isn't going to listen and I think they certainly won't action what the Blue Union is requesting (namely, the outsourcing of the selling process).
On top of that, far too many fans are blinded by the quality in our small squad without questioning where the money came from for that quality (i.e: asset stripping).
I pray that we somehow get out of this financial mess and that somebody embarks on a long term plan for putting Everton back where we belong.
For the moment I don't believe that a few hundred people marching will sway the current board or the blinded fans.
The club really isn't going to listen and I think they certainly won't action what the Blue Union is requesting (namely, the outsourcing of the selling process).
On top of that, far too many fans are blinded by the quality in our small squad without questioning where the money came from for that quality (i.e: asset stripping).
I pray that we somehow get out of this financial mess and that somebody embarks on a long term plan for putting Everton back where we belong.
For the moment I don't believe that a few hundred people marching will sway the current board or the blinded fans.
Kevin #43 but the point is that numbers do matter. So you need to stop 'spouting bollocks' before accusing others of doing so.
Apathy is the greatest threat to being able to claim that you are defending/supporting whatever it is that you are. If only a tiny percentage turn up to march, then the cause loses any claims it might have to represent the masses.
This shute about it being people's day off doesn't wash either. Yes, it may well have been, but they were all already at the venue so it took little effort to march if they believed in the cause.
This is also where your comparison with public sector pensions falls down. To march against pension cuts requires you to travel to a specific location you were not planning on going to in order to join the protest. Whereas to march in support of the BU only requires you to walk along a road you are already walking along anyway. The fact that 97% chose not should make you worry if you are pro-BU or make you feel vindicated if you aren't.
Apathy is the greatest threat to being able to claim that you are defending/supporting whatever it is that you are. If only a tiny percentage turn up to march, then the cause loses any claims it might have to represent the masses.
This shute about it being people's day off doesn't wash either. Yes, it may well have been, but they were all already at the venue so it took little effort to march if they believed in the cause.
This is also where your comparison with public sector pensions falls down. To march against pension cuts requires you to travel to a specific location you were not planning on going to in order to join the protest. Whereas to march in support of the BU only requires you to walk along a road you are already walking along anyway. The fact that 97% chose not should make you worry if you are pro-BU or make you feel vindicated if you aren't.
I do like the idea that, if you don't march, you aren't doing your bit for the club ? as per the comments above!.
If the marches are actually putting the relative small scale of active dissent into clear focus, for the club to laugh up its collective sleeves at, and the variation in messages coming from those participating shows how fractured even that modest opposition is, aren't you doing more harm than good? Aren't you reinforcing the existing board's grip?
Can someone tell me if there is an actual point to the marches beyond this absurd idea that doing something/anything has value?
If the marches are actually putting the relative small scale of active dissent into clear focus, for the club to laugh up its collective sleeves at, and the variation in messages coming from those participating shows how fractured even that modest opposition is, aren't you doing more harm than good? Aren't you reinforcing the existing board's grip?
Can someone tell me if there is an actual point to the marches beyond this absurd idea that doing something/anything has value?
?Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.? ? Margaret Mead
That there's lots or few BUers is meaningless. It's being covered now in traditional media, it's all over the Web (more importantly). Current ownership must respond to the pressure.
Sad to see how EFC's media man Ross listed out Richard Nixon-like methods to deal with the BU in the e-mail fun of a few days ago. Really, whose dick did he suck to get his job? I'm not making a joke. I'm asking.
However BU is viewed, they've put pressure, in public, on ownership. This isn't bad. It's good.
That there's lots or few BUers is meaningless. It's being covered now in traditional media, it's all over the Web (more importantly). Current ownership must respond to the pressure.
Sad to see how EFC's media man Ross listed out Richard Nixon-like methods to deal with the BU in the e-mail fun of a few days ago. Really, whose dick did he suck to get his job? I'm not making a joke. I'm asking.
However BU is viewed, they've put pressure, in public, on ownership. This isn't bad. It's good.
Neil (47) - "Always thought it was a low rent site anyway."
No. A high rent site at no rent prices. Of course, give me the link to your EFC Discussion Board site and I'll take a look in.
No. A high rent site at no rent prices. Of course, give me the link to your EFC Discussion Board site and I'll take a look in.
Gavin (39) - "not once did I hear any of the fans stood at the side of the road shout any abuse at those on it and indeed a fair few joining in the chants of "'Let go if you love the club.'"
Game, Set, and Match.
What some are missing is that the exact opposite isn't happening; furious EFC fans screaming abuse or attacking the BUs as they march by.
Current ownership is done. Done and they know it. My opinion is potential buyers are hovering like vultures, looking for an LFC-type bargain basement deal before moving in with an offer.
Good times are coming.
Game, Set, and Match.
What some are missing is that the exact opposite isn't happening; furious EFC fans screaming abuse or attacking the BUs as they march by.
Current ownership is done. Done and they know it. My opinion is potential buyers are hovering like vultures, looking for an LFC-type bargain basement deal before moving in with an offer.
Good times are coming.
Must add as a New York City boy who walked picket lines as my dad did before me.
Good to see the old spirit (pre-Reagan/Thatcher Union smashing days) still alive.
Good to see the old spirit (pre-Reagan/Thatcher Union smashing days) still alive.
Paul (12) - "it will take time but the numbers will grow".
Correct and well-said.
Correct and well-said.
The idea that there is a small group of all knowing people who support the BU and a large group of idiots who don't and just need educating is laughable. We know enough to make our own minds up on any issue. The BU has no clear message to speak of and no real popular support. We all want change and we all want success but the BU aren't really adding anything to achieve this.
I am another exile based in Singapore. To my way of thinking, it does not matter if just one person marched or 30,000 marched, Kenwright would chose to ignore any protest. The people managing our club are inept and arrogant. This is an unfortunate mixture as their arrogance leads them to ignore their bungling ineptitude. In the corporate world, these traits have resulted in huge failures (Enron, WorldCom etc).
The other common thread is that the big corporations which have failed have leaders who punish whistle-blowers. Kenwright and the board do not tolerate anyone with different opinions. So any protest, big or small, will have no effect. Journalists who attempt to write articles exposing this bunch of clowns will not be allowed into Goodison.
My frustration is that I feel powerless to do anything so far away. I don't think the Singapore police will give me a permit to march down Orchard Road, but even if I did and Kenwright was here, he would ignore it.
The other common thread is that the big corporations which have failed have leaders who punish whistle-blowers. Kenwright and the board do not tolerate anyone with different opinions. So any protest, big or small, will have no effect. Journalists who attempt to write articles exposing this bunch of clowns will not be allowed into Goodison.
My frustration is that I feel powerless to do anything so far away. I don't think the Singapore police will give me a permit to march down Orchard Road, but even if I did and Kenwright was here, he would ignore it.
The idea that there is a small group of all-knowing people who take pot-shots at the BU and a large group of idiots who are supporting them and who just need educating on the futility of direct action is laughable. We know enough to make our own minds up on any issue.
The naysayers have no plan of their own apart from either blindly believing that Bill will come good one day or believing that apathy will change the day. We all want change and we all want success, but apathy and naysaying aren't really adding anything to achieve this.
The naysayers have no plan of their own apart from either blindly believing that Bill will come good one day or believing that apathy will change the day. We all want change and we all want success, but apathy and naysaying aren't really adding anything to achieve this.
Rob,
Naysaying moves us forward not a bit I agree. How much farther are marches taking us though?.
Don't get me wrong I don't oppose anyone marching, but, I'll not be told I'm a poorer fan for not doing so myself. The marches attract media attention sure, but, very little that's supportive or sympathetic to the cause. I've heard the old 'whining scouser' tag more in the last few months than I have in years. Used to be levelled at the mob over the park; now it's us and we're all tarred with the same brush.
You can be proud of the lads and girls who stand up for their beliefs, but, if it doesn't achieve anything towards the goal of removing the board and, without representing anyone but themselves, puts us under the media microscope, how is their effort worth anything?
Naysaying moves us forward not a bit I agree. How much farther are marches taking us though?.
Don't get me wrong I don't oppose anyone marching, but, I'll not be told I'm a poorer fan for not doing so myself. The marches attract media attention sure, but, very little that's supportive or sympathetic to the cause. I've heard the old 'whining scouser' tag more in the last few months than I have in years. Used to be levelled at the mob over the park; now it's us and we're all tarred with the same brush.
You can be proud of the lads and girls who stand up for their beliefs, but, if it doesn't achieve anything towards the goal of removing the board and, without representing anyone but themselves, puts us under the media microscope, how is their effort worth anything?
Steve, the BU have got everyone talking about the central issue facing the club, which is the failure of the existing Board to raise sufficient finance to take us favour. That is how their effort is worth something.
They have started the debate despite the best efforts of the Echo, and now it seems, certain websites, to close off any criticism of the Board and the managment of the club. In doing so, they have forced the Club management to respond, first with talk of "three of four investors" and later with confirmation that the club is for sale.
OK we all know that what BK says and what he means are not always related, but it seems interest in our club is growing. We will next need more explanations as to why none of these expressions of interest are coming off into anything more tangible.
As I said earlier, this is a long term campaign. Nothing was ever going to happen overnight and I salute the BU for their determination.
They have started the debate despite the best efforts of the Echo, and now it seems, certain websites, to close off any criticism of the Board and the managment of the club. In doing so, they have forced the Club management to respond, first with talk of "three of four investors" and later with confirmation that the club is for sale.
OK we all know that what BK says and what he means are not always related, but it seems interest in our club is growing. We will next need more explanations as to why none of these expressions of interest are coming off into anything more tangible.
As I said earlier, this is a long term campaign. Nothing was ever going to happen overnight and I salute the BU for their determination.
"Then go and form your own We Love Billy Bullshit group"
Its safe to say that the above named group despite its name...would probably be better organised, have bigger numbers, have a clearer message and goal than the BU group.
....As ridiculous as it sounds.
Its safe to say that the above named group despite its name...would probably be better organised, have bigger numbers, have a clearer message and goal than the BU group.
....As ridiculous as it sounds.
Chris,
I appreciate the response but wasn't all that happening anyway before the BU? We were getting fairy stories of loaded buyers years ago especially around season ticket or half season ticket time. We were getting statements coming out of the club saying it was for sale in 2007, why are they more credible now because they are a response to the BU?
What has changed to make the routine bollocks that comes out of the club believable now when it wasn't before?
I appreciate the response but wasn't all that happening anyway before the BU? We were getting fairy stories of loaded buyers years ago especially around season ticket or half season ticket time. We were getting statements coming out of the club saying it was for sale in 2007, why are they more credible now because they are a response to the BU?
What has changed to make the routine bollocks that comes out of the club believable now when it wasn't before?
The BU had only one real objective and that was to raise awareness and this they have achieved locally, nationally and indeed internationally despite the best efforts of some to stifle that message. The issues have been highlighted and are undeniable...... their detractors rarely comment on these but only concentrate their efforts on painting them as something they are not. Look at all the comments against them and try to find ONE that seriously counters their arguments.
Steve - good point.
I just think the heat is being turned up. There is more pressure for the club to come up with explanations and justifications, and I think people are becoming much more cyncial and much less patient with BK. The BU is now providing a coordinated challenge to the Bollocks that is coming out of the club and providing a focus for people's unhappiness and dissent.
That said ? and remember I support the BU ? my feeling is that he still retains support amongst the wider Everton fanbase. Not sure why... possibly most don't know the the details of his many failures, get their facts from the Echo, possibly many are seduced by his romantic "I'm a Blue too" bullshit.
The BU and its supporters like me have a long way to go to win over the majority of fans. But the game is indeed shifting, and it is shifting away from the Board, albeit slowly.
I just think the heat is being turned up. There is more pressure for the club to come up with explanations and justifications, and I think people are becoming much more cyncial and much less patient with BK. The BU is now providing a coordinated challenge to the Bollocks that is coming out of the club and providing a focus for people's unhappiness and dissent.
That said ? and remember I support the BU ? my feeling is that he still retains support amongst the wider Everton fanbase. Not sure why... possibly most don't know the the details of his many failures, get their facts from the Echo, possibly many are seduced by his romantic "I'm a Blue too" bullshit.
The BU and its supporters like me have a long way to go to win over the majority of fans. But the game is indeed shifting, and it is shifting away from the Board, albeit slowly.
Couldn't be there today as I was working and just made the kick off. Well done to all who attended and to all the blinkered posters on here who can't see what the actor is trying to achieve (ŁŁŁŁŁŁŁŁŁŁŁ), please wake up! As I've said on here a few times, you're gonna be sorry.
Derek (#44), that's an interesting definition of Focus Group.
The BU is, from what I can see, an umbrella group of 4 campaigns/fan sites that has one objective that unifies them, that is the introduction of an independent body to sell the club, and draw media attention to the situation.
They published a manifesto / mission statement whatever, that was fairly broad brush and that attracted some criticism. I believe they did that to be inclusive (I think they had a statement about racism), but to not distract from the objectives of its constituent parties. They may or may not agree which each others' campaigns, but this one issue is what unities them.
Whilst I think the age of t'internet has created a new breed of Truth Warrior, it is a fact that there will always be things going on at the club that we will not, and should not, be party to. The efforts to get some of the facts out in the open, however, I think is to be applauded.
The BU is, from what I can see, an umbrella group of 4 campaigns/fan sites that has one objective that unifies them, that is the introduction of an independent body to sell the club, and draw media attention to the situation.
They published a manifesto / mission statement whatever, that was fairly broad brush and that attracted some criticism. I believe they did that to be inclusive (I think they had a statement about racism), but to not distract from the objectives of its constituent parties. They may or may not agree which each others' campaigns, but this one issue is what unities them.
Whilst I think the age of t'internet has created a new breed of Truth Warrior, it is a fact that there will always be things going on at the club that we will not, and should not, be party to. The efforts to get some of the facts out in the open, however, I think is to be applauded.
Tom,
This is part of the point. The problems of the club are manifestly obvious ? there is no credible opposition to the BU's underlying message because none is possible and there is nothing new to be gained in discussing it.
The club themselves have said, as they can show they have for years, that they're trying to do what the BU want them to do. So the BU's point of contention has been lost. Many outsiders can't understand why the protests are happening when both sides seem to want the same thing! Saying that it's not happening fast enough just looks like petulance and impatience.
You are right that media attention has been attracted but a lot of it hasn't been positive for the BU or, by association, the image of Evertonians as a group.
This is part of the point. The problems of the club are manifestly obvious ? there is no credible opposition to the BU's underlying message because none is possible and there is nothing new to be gained in discussing it.
The club themselves have said, as they can show they have for years, that they're trying to do what the BU want them to do. So the BU's point of contention has been lost. Many outsiders can't understand why the protests are happening when both sides seem to want the same thing! Saying that it's not happening fast enough just looks like petulance and impatience.
You are right that media attention has been attracted but a lot of it hasn't been positive for the BU or, by association, the image of Evertonians as a group.
The BU have my backing, unfortunately I was working so couldn't make it.
Those who are knocking their efforts really need to wake up! We are going nowhere fast under these clowns and the sooner they go the better.
Those who are knocking their efforts really need to wake up! We are going nowhere fast under these clowns and the sooner they go the better.
Everton are doing no worse than any club with their revenue can be expected to do in the EPL and many would say far better. They have no chance of increasing their revenue without becoming successful for which they need ? you've got it ? more revenue.
Only an idiot would buy them or invest in them as a commercial prospect and there aren't that many rich idiots around. The board are trying to find such an idiot and are naturally failing; the BU want them to find such an idiot so they both want the same impossible thing.
No board that doesn't invest their own money can operate EFC any different to the current board ? and why should any director put his own money in with no return on it? ? that is business lunacy. The only way that the club can be run at the moment (and true for nearly all clubs now) is to live within their means... which is what they are doing.
I make no comment on BK other than tending to agree with his "what are they complaining about?" comment. I see the complaints boiling down to two things; one is that the board won't give the club away and the other is that they can't find a brain dead "benefactor". Both I see as pretty ridiculous as demands go.
The people who don't unconditionally support the BU are not inhibiting progress by doing nothing, we are simply realists.
Only an idiot would buy them or invest in them as a commercial prospect and there aren't that many rich idiots around. The board are trying to find such an idiot and are naturally failing; the BU want them to find such an idiot so they both want the same impossible thing.
No board that doesn't invest their own money can operate EFC any different to the current board ? and why should any director put his own money in with no return on it? ? that is business lunacy. The only way that the club can be run at the moment (and true for nearly all clubs now) is to live within their means... which is what they are doing.
I make no comment on BK other than tending to agree with his "what are they complaining about?" comment. I see the complaints boiling down to two things; one is that the board won't give the club away and the other is that they can't find a brain dead "benefactor". Both I see as pretty ridiculous as demands go.
The people who don't unconditionally support the BU are not inhibiting progress by doing nothing, we are simply realists.
James,
This is the point mate the clowns are killing us but what are the marches actually doing to rid us of the clowns?
Just saying 'at least they are doing something' is meaningless isn't it and even the BU's supporters above are saying all that is being achieved is raising the profile of our issues?
Well, if the raised profile results in comments like Lawro's on the BBC last week and that becomes the perception of Everton fans, like it was of RS fans not long ago, does that make things better or worse for us?
This is the point mate the clowns are killing us but what are the marches actually doing to rid us of the clowns?
Just saying 'at least they are doing something' is meaningless isn't it and even the BU's supporters above are saying all that is being achieved is raising the profile of our issues?
Well, if the raised profile results in comments like Lawro's on the BBC last week and that becomes the perception of Everton fans, like it was of RS fans not long ago, does that make things better or worse for us?
Martin
Was that your version of an alternative "clear message"?
Was that your version of an alternative "clear message"?
Martin 'the realist' Mason (56) - you say - "The idea that there is a small group of all knowing people who support the BU and a large group of idiots who don't and just need educating is laughable".
Really?
Why?
Why can't the idiots be the majority?
They usually are!
All through the 1930's Winston Churchill told anyone who was interested (ie: virtually nobody) that the Germans were re-arming and would soon be looking for war.
He was shouted down and called a war-monger by just about everyone.
Well history shows he (nb: and the minority) was right and all those (like you), who couldn't see the writing on the wall, were wrong.
As it turned out, the majority WERE idiots and had we listened to Churchill and the minority, the war could have been over a couple years earlier or even averted altogether.
Personally, I happen to think the majority in ANY situation tend to be the idiots.
Majority of newspaper readers? Sun.
Majority of TV watchers? Eastenders.
Majority of people who'll buy a single at crimbo will buy..the X-factor winner.
Fact is, millions love/buy/watch/listen to/vote for all kinds of shite
Yet according to your 'logic', it's those who prefer something different who are the problem.
Idiot.
Really?
Why?
Why can't the idiots be the majority?
They usually are!
All through the 1930's Winston Churchill told anyone who was interested (ie: virtually nobody) that the Germans were re-arming and would soon be looking for war.
He was shouted down and called a war-monger by just about everyone.
Well history shows he (nb: and the minority) was right and all those (like you), who couldn't see the writing on the wall, were wrong.
As it turned out, the majority WERE idiots and had we listened to Churchill and the minority, the war could have been over a couple years earlier or even averted altogether.
Personally, I happen to think the majority in ANY situation tend to be the idiots.
Majority of newspaper readers? Sun.
Majority of TV watchers? Eastenders.
Majority of people who'll buy a single at crimbo will buy..the X-factor winner.
Fact is, millions love/buy/watch/listen to/vote for all kinds of shite
Yet according to your 'logic', it's those who prefer something different who are the problem.
Idiot.
"then go and form your own We Love Billy Bullshit group"
Its safe to say that the above named group despite its name...would probably be better organised, have bigger numbers, have a clearer message and goal than the BU group.
....As ridiculous as it sounds.
Its safe to say that the above named group despite its name...would probably be better organised, have bigger numbers, have a clearer message and goal than the BU group.
....As ridiculous as it sounds.
I was on the march yesterday with a few other blues that I go the games with. The numbers on the field were small but the numbers swelled by the time we got the ground.
To those that say it achieves nothing, what do propose to do? Or are you happy the way the club is?
To those that say it achieves nothing, what do propose to do? Or are you happy the way the club is?
Neil #47, I left comments a few times and they havent been put up. Nothing bad, just not agreeing with what they say. Did complain and a few were added hardly both now couldn't be arsed.
Mick Galagher,
What do I suggest you do instead of march? Well, for a start, I never said you shouldn't if that's what floats your boat.
I said, to those who were stating that any who don't march are lesser fans, that they should be aware of how little they were going to achieve and that there was a danger they'd do more harm than good. I wanted to see if those fans had thought that far ahead.
If you want to actually achieve something towards the goal of seeing the club under new ownership you have to stop long enough to think why we aren't being bought. This whole thing about the price on the club is an easy cop out by those who can't be arsed to think about the situation. The truth is we don't make enough money to be attractive as a business.
If you want to help get the club sold do what I'm doing. Buy as much official merchandise as you can. Get people to buy you, your kids, whatever as much Everton brand stuff as possible for christmas. Get an EFC credit card. Put as much money into the club as you can and get others to do the same. Try and recruit more fans from your friends and acquaintances.
If it's the poor business prospects that are holding us back then we need to make the business look better and be more attractive to the market. If we all do something along the lines indicated ? if we could get 50000 across Merseyside to spend twenty quid on official branded stuff, we make a huge impact on the club's commercial figures.
Easier to walk down the road singing I guess but not as positive a step.
What do I suggest you do instead of march? Well, for a start, I never said you shouldn't if that's what floats your boat.
I said, to those who were stating that any who don't march are lesser fans, that they should be aware of how little they were going to achieve and that there was a danger they'd do more harm than good. I wanted to see if those fans had thought that far ahead.
If you want to actually achieve something towards the goal of seeing the club under new ownership you have to stop long enough to think why we aren't being bought. This whole thing about the price on the club is an easy cop out by those who can't be arsed to think about the situation. The truth is we don't make enough money to be attractive as a business.
If you want to help get the club sold do what I'm doing. Buy as much official merchandise as you can. Get people to buy you, your kids, whatever as much Everton brand stuff as possible for christmas. Get an EFC credit card. Put as much money into the club as you can and get others to do the same. Try and recruit more fans from your friends and acquaintances.
If it's the poor business prospects that are holding us back then we need to make the business look better and be more attractive to the market. If we all do something along the lines indicated ? if we could get 50000 across Merseyside to spend twenty quid on official branded stuff, we make a huge impact on the club's commercial figures.
Easier to walk down the road singing I guess but not as positive a step.
For a start, 2 season tickets a season and new kits every season. Get new fans? I took my mate's daughter yesterday for the 2nd time, he's not happy as they're all reds, so there's the start your asking. Hope that's helped a bit Steve, but getting back to the point...
The main problem I have is being constantly lied to by the chairman and his board, or are you happy being lied to by them? I could list them but they have been listed so many times before.
The main problem I have is being constantly lied to by the chairman and his board, or are you happy being lied to by them? I could list them but they have been listed so many times before.
I was on the march with my 27-year-old daughter. Once we reached Goodison Road, the numbers had swelled over and above the first march.
To clarify a few points from above, everyone was singing as one apart from the 'Billy Liar' song. There was a far greater element within the march who were singing 'Kenwright out' songs etc but all were unified re 'Let go .....'
As more people attended, the line of people was longer and therefore songs were being started at the front at the same time as the rear (nb: we were in the middle).
First march, lots of under the breath, mubbled 'knobhead-kopite' remarks from passers by... I can honestly say we did not hear one derogatory comment yesterday. In fact, mainly the opposite and genuine interest in the leaflets etc.
Very well organised. Well done to all involved. A much needed 3 points as well. Off to Bolton next week. Another massive game.
COYB
To clarify a few points from above, everyone was singing as one apart from the 'Billy Liar' song. There was a far greater element within the march who were singing 'Kenwright out' songs etc but all were unified re 'Let go .....'
As more people attended, the line of people was longer and therefore songs were being started at the front at the same time as the rear (nb: we were in the middle).
First march, lots of under the breath, mubbled 'knobhead-kopite' remarks from passers by... I can honestly say we did not hear one derogatory comment yesterday. In fact, mainly the opposite and genuine interest in the leaflets etc.
Very well organised. Well done to all involved. A much needed 3 points as well. Off to Bolton next week. Another massive game.
COYB
Great stuff Mick but you have to understand that you are doing more to promote the club, and make a contribution to removing the current owners, with that support than you are marching?.
Of course if you are just angry and want to shout at someone then the marching is cracking free therapy isn't it!.
Of course if you are just angry and want to shout at someone then the marching is cracking free therapy isn't it!.
Steve,
The members of the BU are all match-going blues.... Some are share-holders, and some do not miss an Everton match anywhere (world-wide), and haven't for decades. They really do not need to be lectured about being good supporters and the financial benefits for the club if more were as involved as them.
KEIOC have done several far more in-depth analyses of the club's financial performance over the years, with comparisons to other clubs..... and pointers to how they have made the most of their clubs...... and more critically have highlighted the comparative defficiencies and mistakes of our club over the same period.
Perhaps if they had delivered Kings Dock then we wouldn't be protesting. Failing that, if they had addressed the stadium issue at any point in the past 12 years then our income streams might have increased proportionally... etc. They have invested and delivered nothing..... but you knew all that!!!
The members of the BU are all match-going blues.... Some are share-holders, and some do not miss an Everton match anywhere (world-wide), and haven't for decades. They really do not need to be lectured about being good supporters and the financial benefits for the club if more were as involved as them.
KEIOC have done several far more in-depth analyses of the club's financial performance over the years, with comparisons to other clubs..... and pointers to how they have made the most of their clubs...... and more critically have highlighted the comparative defficiencies and mistakes of our club over the same period.
Perhaps if they had delivered Kings Dock then we wouldn't be protesting. Failing that, if they had addressed the stadium issue at any point in the past 12 years then our income streams might have increased proportionally... etc. They have invested and delivered nothing..... but you knew all that!!!
Well done the BU.
Other than the "chattering class" who have this bizarro 'do nothing' logic - wimpering "yeh something needs to be done" but ffs don't march or any of that protest shit.
It's clear from the marchers' anecdotes and the 'headless chicken' e.mails, the message is getting through.
The pressure is working ? keep it up.
Other than the "chattering class" who have this bizarro 'do nothing' logic - wimpering "yeh something needs to be done" but ffs don't march or any of that protest shit.
It's clear from the marchers' anecdotes and the 'headless chicken' e.mails, the message is getting through.
The pressure is working ? keep it up.
Your point, Tom?
Who is disputing what you say about the boards failings? When no-one is supporting the board what's the point in even trotting that out again?
Mick stated that anyone doubting the value of the march must be happy with the current board. I've pointed out that isn't the case and his only comeback has been that he's angry so his reason to march is a personal one!
I've not sought to educate anyone in KEIOC on anything and I'm sure they, like Mick, spend wildly. My point was to show the difference between a measure that will help achieve the goal of attracting interest and one that won't.
Who is disputing what you say about the boards failings? When no-one is supporting the board what's the point in even trotting that out again?
Mick stated that anyone doubting the value of the march must be happy with the current board. I've pointed out that isn't the case and his only comeback has been that he's angry so his reason to march is a personal one!
I've not sought to educate anyone in KEIOC on anything and I'm sure they, like Mick, spend wildly. My point was to show the difference between a measure that will help achieve the goal of attracting interest and one that won't.
For Christ's sake, the whole problem is nothing to do with us being an attractive proposition. The ground issue, the debt etc etc etc. This phoney, milking, rich, phoney, Loveydovey, phoney, Coronation Street, phoney, ripping my club off, phoney limelight-loving twat, will be the death of this club until we all act as one.
This imposter will sell the club at a HUGE profit, tell the world he was our saviour, then relax in his millionaire's corporate box at the opening night of Blood Brothers at the Milton Keynes Pavilion. GET OUT OF MY CLUB, YOU PHONEY BASTARD... NOW!
This imposter will sell the club at a HUGE profit, tell the world he was our saviour, then relax in his millionaire's corporate box at the opening night of Blood Brothers at the Milton Keynes Pavilion. GET OUT OF MY CLUB, YOU PHONEY BASTARD... NOW!
Trevor, I agree. It's all about applying pressure.
BK and his merry men are finally having to answer questions regarding the protracted sale of the club.
It's in their faces now, and won't go away, and despite claims their aims are the same as the BU's, there is nothing like a bit of pressure to focus the mind when delivering results.
Prior to the BU and the subsequent press coverage we had the continued inertia reinforced by the Echo and Bluekipper.
BK and his merry men are finally having to answer questions regarding the protracted sale of the club.
It's in their faces now, and won't go away, and despite claims their aims are the same as the BU's, there is nothing like a bit of pressure to focus the mind when delivering results.
Prior to the BU and the subsequent press coverage we had the continued inertia reinforced by the Echo and Bluekipper.
Feel better now, Brian?
I'm sure the board are concerned about your views on Kenwright. To be honest, I don't think they are going to hand over their shares because you and Mick are throwing a tantrum though.
So we need something a bit more practical and effective if we do actually want to see the back end of this board.
I'm sure the board are concerned about your views on Kenwright. To be honest, I don't think they are going to hand over their shares because you and Mick are throwing a tantrum though.
So we need something a bit more practical and effective if we do actually want to see the back end of this board.
There are "three or four interested parties" at the moment.
I wonder what will be the excuse when they suddenly evaporate into thin air?
If they didn't have the funds, why did they even get past the enquiry stage? No corporate law firm worth their fees would let them get their hands on player contracts, mortgage details etc without letters of credit. You need to see all these details before you can even start thinking about negotiations on a price.
Are the club saying all interested parties can see all financials without proving they have the means to purchase?
Bill has said there are "always three or four interested parties."
What the fuck does he mean?
I wonder what will be the excuse when they suddenly evaporate into thin air?
If they didn't have the funds, why did they even get past the enquiry stage? No corporate law firm worth their fees would let them get their hands on player contracts, mortgage details etc without letters of credit. You need to see all these details before you can even start thinking about negotiations on a price.
Are the club saying all interested parties can see all financials without proving they have the means to purchase?
Bill has said there are "always three or four interested parties."
What the fuck does he mean?
Steve, I answered your question about spending my hard earn money at the club. Then you call me angry for marching. I'm not angry and never mentioned anger in my post. Then in another post you say I'm throwing a tantrum. How do you know how I'm feeling? Enlighten me please.
Mick
You come across as angry, not as much as Brian of course, but the whole 'if you don't agree with the march you must be happy with the way the club is run' comment you made isn't rational is it?
It's possible to want rid of the board and to have concluded that the BU aren't doing the right things to make that happen.
If I have mistaken your comments and have the wrong impression, my apologies... but it that's how it reads.
You come across as angry, not as much as Brian of course, but the whole 'if you don't agree with the march you must be happy with the way the club is run' comment you made isn't rational is it?
It's possible to want rid of the board and to have concluded that the BU aren't doing the right things to make that happen.
If I have mistaken your comments and have the wrong impression, my apologies... but it that's how it reads.
Steve...... feel free to enlighten us. What should the BU do? You agree they have valid reason to protest but you seem to think they shouldn't. What is your point?
Make EFC more saleable by investing more of our own hard-earned? How would we ever get rid of this lot then? The point is they have run the club to the point of collapse and are still trying to engineer a way out or a big payday. Neither of which can be in the best interests of the club.
They have failed miserably and the media spin to the contrary needs to be countered otherwise it will all be too late..... if it isn't already. Saying nothing simply isn't an option anymore.
Make EFC more saleable by investing more of our own hard-earned? How would we ever get rid of this lot then? The point is they have run the club to the point of collapse and are still trying to engineer a way out or a big payday. Neither of which can be in the best interests of the club.
They have failed miserably and the media spin to the contrary needs to be countered otherwise it will all be too late..... if it isn't already. Saying nothing simply isn't an option anymore.
I saw a few hundred tops
"Personally, I happen to think the majority in ANY situation tend to be the idiots"
Does that apply to David Icke then?
Does that apply to David Icke then?
Perhaps the accomplished, professional businessmen on our current Board will take notice of and react to the drop in attendances compared to last season? Any "normal" Board of directors would...
Tom
"Steve...... feel free to enlighten us. What should the BU do?"
Exactly what I've been saying on this site for weeks. Get a damned mandate. Get some credibility. Represent something more significant than a comparitively small number of disgruntled fans. If they want to march then wait until they have the support of the fanbase and make a REAL statement with that demonstration. In 1999 10,000 fans signed a petition to get shot of agent Johnson... get 10,000 marching and you have a statement... an expression of political power....get 4-500 marching and you have the local angry-of-walton mob who're a bit ticked off. When you get applause from the pub but no-one willing to actually put their pint down and join you you know you have a credibility problem.
"You agree they have valid reason to protest but you seem to think they shouldn't. What is your point?"
My point is that they need to damned well achieve something. At present all it is generating is publicity that is clearly not all positive and showing the club how marginal the 'anti' mob actually are. I've said several times here that fans should march if they want to, its their right, but that they should understand they are marching mostly to vent their own dissatisfaction and will achieve nothing more than that. That being the case they do not get to look down on fans who dont march who can control their emotions a bit better and see that, quite apart from applying pressure as some on here believe they are doing, they, by marching in small numbers, are marginalising themselves and the message.
"Make EFC more saleable by investing more of our own hard-earned? How would we ever get rid of this lot then?"
By encouraging someone to come in and buy them out!. That thing thats not happened so far! Unless you believe the conspiracy theory that the sticker price on the club is too high and that businessmen, who operate at the level of making million-pound deals regularly, wouldn't know how to negotiate a high starting price downwards!?
"The point is they have run the club to the point of collapse and are still trying to engineer a way out or a big payday."
So what?. If they are gone and we get new owners with substance behind them who cares? They'll be gone. We can have the witch-hunt when we have a strong and capable board in place and the club is on the road to recovery. Until then isnt the point to take whatever real practical steps we can towards getting shot of this board?.
"Neither of which can be in the best interests of the club."
The best interests of the club are served by getting rid of this board and replacing it with one with the resources and vision to do better ? end of story. What happens to Kenwright, Woods and Earl after that frankly I couldn't give half a toss.
"They have failed miserably and the media spin to the contrary needs to be countered otherwise it will all be too late..... if it isn't already. Saying nothing simply isn't an option anymore."
You think comments like Lawro's in the BBC are countering the boards spin do you? You think an emerging public opinion of Everton fans as dim-witted cash whores is refuting the clubs PR machine?.
"Steve...... feel free to enlighten us. What should the BU do?"
Exactly what I've been saying on this site for weeks. Get a damned mandate. Get some credibility. Represent something more significant than a comparitively small number of disgruntled fans. If they want to march then wait until they have the support of the fanbase and make a REAL statement with that demonstration. In 1999 10,000 fans signed a petition to get shot of agent Johnson... get 10,000 marching and you have a statement... an expression of political power....get 4-500 marching and you have the local angry-of-walton mob who're a bit ticked off. When you get applause from the pub but no-one willing to actually put their pint down and join you you know you have a credibility problem.
"You agree they have valid reason to protest but you seem to think they shouldn't. What is your point?"
My point is that they need to damned well achieve something. At present all it is generating is publicity that is clearly not all positive and showing the club how marginal the 'anti' mob actually are. I've said several times here that fans should march if they want to, its their right, but that they should understand they are marching mostly to vent their own dissatisfaction and will achieve nothing more than that. That being the case they do not get to look down on fans who dont march who can control their emotions a bit better and see that, quite apart from applying pressure as some on here believe they are doing, they, by marching in small numbers, are marginalising themselves and the message.
"Make EFC more saleable by investing more of our own hard-earned? How would we ever get rid of this lot then?"
By encouraging someone to come in and buy them out!. That thing thats not happened so far! Unless you believe the conspiracy theory that the sticker price on the club is too high and that businessmen, who operate at the level of making million-pound deals regularly, wouldn't know how to negotiate a high starting price downwards!?
"The point is they have run the club to the point of collapse and are still trying to engineer a way out or a big payday."
So what?. If they are gone and we get new owners with substance behind them who cares? They'll be gone. We can have the witch-hunt when we have a strong and capable board in place and the club is on the road to recovery. Until then isnt the point to take whatever real practical steps we can towards getting shot of this board?.
"Neither of which can be in the best interests of the club."
The best interests of the club are served by getting rid of this board and replacing it with one with the resources and vision to do better ? end of story. What happens to Kenwright, Woods and Earl after that frankly I couldn't give half a toss.
"They have failed miserably and the media spin to the contrary needs to be countered otherwise it will all be too late..... if it isn't already. Saying nothing simply isn't an option anymore."
You think comments like Lawro's in the BBC are countering the boards spin do you? You think an emerging public opinion of Everton fans as dim-witted cash whores is refuting the clubs PR machine?.
The BU have succeeded in getting media exposure for our plight. In doing so, this has applied pressure to the board. It is difficult to quantify the effect they have had, because there is no tangible evidence of what they have done or they effect they have had in the corridors of power within the club. But, they have got people talking about the issues, whether you like it or not.
I think a next step for this group could be in the form of a petition. It is clear we have a lot of fans who agree with what the BU stands for, but for whatever reasons (all of them a load of bollocks in my opinion) some of our fans don't do protests. Whether it's because it disrupts their pre-match pint, or it's "kopite behaviour" (whatever that's supposed to mean) or they just can't be arsed. If we could get a petition with 5,000 names on, which they could deliver to the club, that would carry some more weight.
Either way, the BU are doing a good job, they need to keep up the pressure. The board need to get the message that they are not going to disappear. Support the team, oppose stagnation.
I think a next step for this group could be in the form of a petition. It is clear we have a lot of fans who agree with what the BU stands for, but for whatever reasons (all of them a load of bollocks in my opinion) some of our fans don't do protests. Whether it's because it disrupts their pre-match pint, or it's "kopite behaviour" (whatever that's supposed to mean) or they just can't be arsed. If we could get a petition with 5,000 names on, which they could deliver to the club, that would carry some more weight.
Either way, the BU are doing a good job, they need to keep up the pressure. The board need to get the message that they are not going to disappear. Support the team, oppose stagnation.
"This has applied pressure to the board" - What pressure? All the board have done is come out and say that they have interested parties......not exactly making them quake in their boots and employ a "cunning plan" to dissaude further editorials against them.
Steve Jones,
Excellent post. If the BU want to actually make a real impact they need to move away from being an angry mob of a few hundred and towards a group that the majority of match-going Evertonians can get behind.
Excellent post. If the BU want to actually make a real impact they need to move away from being an angry mob of a few hundred and towards a group that the majority of match-going Evertonians can get behind.
Steve,
"Exactly what I've been saying on this site for weeks. Get a damned mandate. Get some credibility. Represent something more significant than a comparitively small number of disgruntled fans. If they want to march then wait until they have the support of the fanbase and make a REAL statement with that demonstration."
Hold on, wouldn't that still be a march? surely not?
Again, tell us something we don't know. Explain HOW they do all this in your opinion. We all know what needs to happen and that is what they are working towards.
"In 1999 10,000 fans signed a petition to get shot of agent Johnson....get 10,000 marching and you have a statement."
I don't remember this tbh, and think the real clincher was following the Coventry game when the crowd shouted him down... but regardless I think you'll find that KEIOC managed a bigger vote after only a few weeks preparation in 2007.... plus the numbers subscribing to the BU's facebook and twitter campaigns is still growing and could probably match that number now.
"When you get applause from the pub but no-one willing to actually put their pint down and join you you know you have a credibility problem."
I think you'll find many joined the march after the pubs and filled Goodison Rd. There were large groups of people applauding on each corner and they nearly all joined in the chants (which were as loud as anything during the game). I was nearer the back of the group and got nowhere near the Winslow before the line stopped. There is video and photographic and video evidence that quickly dispels the one man and his dog propaganda.
"My point is that they need to damned well achieve something."
Again.... anyone can state words.....tell us/them how you would do things differently. Where are your ideas? Volunteer your services and advice and time if you really want this board out. Words are cheap!!
Fact is, they have raised awareness and as expected are castigated by the club as being rebels without a cause, and a rabble etc. The club have the local media in their pocket and this is where the majority of Evertonians are informed about all things Everton. So, it is an uphill struggle and the more help rather than criticism would be appreciated if you really share their aims.
"That being the case they do not get to look down on fans who dont march who can control their emotions a bit better and see that, quite apart from applying pressure as some on here believe they are doing, they, by marching in small numbers, are marginalising themselves and the message."
This is patronising nonsense. Controlling emotions? You are advocating "doing nothing"...... applying pressure subliminally? Do you really believe that all they have done is plan a couple of marches? KEIOC have been around for years before they even considered a protest march of any kind. They have tried the passive approach, reserached ideas and the issues and engaged respected experts/planners/architects.... It would appear that all that happens with this lot is you get lip-service and the status quo is preserved.
You might think that that no-one is feeling the pressure, but the leaked e-mails and BK's initial eagerness to meet BU, and subsequent face-saving exercises would suggest a very different picture. The PR machine has been in overdrive selling the lie.... as ever, eventually something leaks.
"By encouraging someone to come in and buy them out!. That thing thats not happened so far!. Unless you believe the conspiracy theory that the sticker price on the club is too high and that businessmen, who operate at the level of making million-pound deals regularly, wouldn't know how to negotiate a high starting price downwards!?."
It is not a conspiracy theory to know that despite looking for his entire tenure they still have not secured investment or a buyer when ALL others have..... some more than once, many with smaller fanbases and turnovers!
"So what?. If they are gone and we get new owners with substance behind them who cares?. They'll be gone. We can have the witch-hunt when we have a strong and capable board in place and the club is on the road to recovery. Until then isnt the point to take whatever real practical steps we can towards getting shot of this board?"
I only half agree with that sentiment..... I must've restrained my "emotions" a bit more than yourself. Who buys us is all important, and the more cash they have left after the sale to push the club forward even better..... so yes the asking price is quite important. It will certainly affect the process. We don't need a high priced leveraged deal that benefits the out-going directors with a massive profit but cripples the club forever a la LFC or Man U. KEIOC's piece on the pricing explained these issues.
"You think comments like Lawro's in the BBC are countering the boards spin do you?. You think an emerging public opinion of Everton fans as dim-witted cash whores is refuting the clubs PR machine?."
That's your opinion and not reflected in most of the articles I've read. Prior to the BU, you could count the number of dissenting articles on one hand. Most elevating BK to saintdom. Not so more recently. Perhaps investors will be more attracted by the possibility of financial implosion as has happened elsewhere, to a lesser extent it helped BK to gain something he couldn't even afford 12yrs ago..... Lets' face it we've come pretty close to the meltdown senario recently with little changed since. Meanwhile the BU can keep plugging away, and hopefully after a few more months of the club bungling along aimlessly a few more people like yourself will find it in yourself to do a bit more than type a few dissenting lines on here.....
"Exactly what I've been saying on this site for weeks. Get a damned mandate. Get some credibility. Represent something more significant than a comparitively small number of disgruntled fans. If they want to march then wait until they have the support of the fanbase and make a REAL statement with that demonstration."
Hold on, wouldn't that still be a march? surely not?
Again, tell us something we don't know. Explain HOW they do all this in your opinion. We all know what needs to happen and that is what they are working towards.
"In 1999 10,000 fans signed a petition to get shot of agent Johnson....get 10,000 marching and you have a statement."
I don't remember this tbh, and think the real clincher was following the Coventry game when the crowd shouted him down... but regardless I think you'll find that KEIOC managed a bigger vote after only a few weeks preparation in 2007.... plus the numbers subscribing to the BU's facebook and twitter campaigns is still growing and could probably match that number now.
"When you get applause from the pub but no-one willing to actually put their pint down and join you you know you have a credibility problem."
I think you'll find many joined the march after the pubs and filled Goodison Rd. There were large groups of people applauding on each corner and they nearly all joined in the chants (which were as loud as anything during the game). I was nearer the back of the group and got nowhere near the Winslow before the line stopped. There is video and photographic and video evidence that quickly dispels the one man and his dog propaganda.
"My point is that they need to damned well achieve something."
Again.... anyone can state words.....tell us/them how you would do things differently. Where are your ideas? Volunteer your services and advice and time if you really want this board out. Words are cheap!!
Fact is, they have raised awareness and as expected are castigated by the club as being rebels without a cause, and a rabble etc. The club have the local media in their pocket and this is where the majority of Evertonians are informed about all things Everton. So, it is an uphill struggle and the more help rather than criticism would be appreciated if you really share their aims.
"That being the case they do not get to look down on fans who dont march who can control their emotions a bit better and see that, quite apart from applying pressure as some on here believe they are doing, they, by marching in small numbers, are marginalising themselves and the message."
This is patronising nonsense. Controlling emotions? You are advocating "doing nothing"...... applying pressure subliminally? Do you really believe that all they have done is plan a couple of marches? KEIOC have been around for years before they even considered a protest march of any kind. They have tried the passive approach, reserached ideas and the issues and engaged respected experts/planners/architects.... It would appear that all that happens with this lot is you get lip-service and the status quo is preserved.
You might think that that no-one is feeling the pressure, but the leaked e-mails and BK's initial eagerness to meet BU, and subsequent face-saving exercises would suggest a very different picture. The PR machine has been in overdrive selling the lie.... as ever, eventually something leaks.
"By encouraging someone to come in and buy them out!. That thing thats not happened so far!. Unless you believe the conspiracy theory that the sticker price on the club is too high and that businessmen, who operate at the level of making million-pound deals regularly, wouldn't know how to negotiate a high starting price downwards!?."
It is not a conspiracy theory to know that despite looking for his entire tenure they still have not secured investment or a buyer when ALL others have..... some more than once, many with smaller fanbases and turnovers!
"So what?. If they are gone and we get new owners with substance behind them who cares?. They'll be gone. We can have the witch-hunt when we have a strong and capable board in place and the club is on the road to recovery. Until then isnt the point to take whatever real practical steps we can towards getting shot of this board?"
I only half agree with that sentiment..... I must've restrained my "emotions" a bit more than yourself. Who buys us is all important, and the more cash they have left after the sale to push the club forward even better..... so yes the asking price is quite important. It will certainly affect the process. We don't need a high priced leveraged deal that benefits the out-going directors with a massive profit but cripples the club forever a la LFC or Man U. KEIOC's piece on the pricing explained these issues.
"You think comments like Lawro's in the BBC are countering the boards spin do you?. You think an emerging public opinion of Everton fans as dim-witted cash whores is refuting the clubs PR machine?."
That's your opinion and not reflected in most of the articles I've read. Prior to the BU, you could count the number of dissenting articles on one hand. Most elevating BK to saintdom. Not so more recently. Perhaps investors will be more attracted by the possibility of financial implosion as has happened elsewhere, to a lesser extent it helped BK to gain something he couldn't even afford 12yrs ago..... Lets' face it we've come pretty close to the meltdown senario recently with little changed since. Meanwhile the BU can keep plugging away, and hopefully after a few more months of the club bungling along aimlessly a few more people like yourself will find it in yourself to do a bit more than type a few dissenting lines on here.....
Tony,
The fact that the board have had to answer questions at all has put them under the spotlight. I have heard more on our plight in the last 3 or 4 months since the BU were formed than I have in the last 10 years. Well done to them I say.
The fact that the board have had to answer questions at all has put them under the spotlight. I have heard more on our plight in the last 3 or 4 months since the BU were formed than I have in the last 10 years. Well done to them I say.
Steve, 93,
Off topic but the other week you asked me a few questions about the proposed FQ; unfortunately I have been unable to respond until now. Michael will let you have my email address I?ll respond to you directly, or if you?re really interested we could meet up at the Bolton or Stoke games?
Cheers
Off topic but the other week you asked me a few questions about the proposed FQ; unfortunately I have been unable to respond until now. Michael will let you have my email address I?ll respond to you directly, or if you?re really interested we could meet up at the Bolton or Stoke games?
Cheers
When the BU come up with a credible strategy for introducing the type of management change that will bring long term benefit for Everton then they will start to appeal to majority rather than as now representing only a vociferous minority. We all want change and we all want "success" (whatever that is) and stability for Everton but what the BU has on the table at the moment is hand waving and wringing. They are also demanding that which they have no right to demand and no chance of achieving. It is possible that they are introducing an instability at the club which is now affecting the players, a wholly negative effect when positivity is needed.
Martin #69, read this:
http://peoplesgroup.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/everton-v-wolves-goodison-molineux/
And now re-read your post and see how ridiculous it is.
http://peoplesgroup.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/everton-v-wolves-goodison-molineux/
And now re-read your post and see how ridiculous it is.
Martin #100 "When the BU come up with a credible strategy for introducing the type of management change that will bring long term benefit for Everton then they will start to appeal to majority."
You trot this out in every debate on the subject but the BU HAVE proposed a credible strategy, it's just that you and the board don't want to recognise it as such.
You trot this out in every debate on the subject but the BU HAVE proposed a credible strategy, it's just that you and the board don't want to recognise it as such.
Eric, installing an interim board with business expertise to oversee a sale? An achievable strategy?
How can Everton redevelop its ground when it doesn't have any money to do so? What Wolves and some others have done is no comparison of what EFC can do. You've seen Everton's books, is it reasonable to expect the Directors of Everton to pay for it with no return?
Is it reasonable for fans to demand success when we have no means of achieving success resources wise. Are we entitled to expect more success than Blackburn for example? Has developing their ground achieved success for Wolves? No they are awful.
City and Liverpool were exceptional last weekend, is that because they play in shiny stadiums? My bet is that it is something to do with the 100s of millions they spend on players. How do Everton compete with that? Oh yes, here comes a billionaire investor.
I want the same things as you, we all do but the BU isn't the way or at least not yet, they don't represent the fans and until they do the board will ignore them. The strategy they need to get right first is getting a critical mass of fans on board. I also seriously doubt the benefit of marches, empty spaces in the ground or cleverly framed stunts inside the ground.
How can Everton redevelop its ground when it doesn't have any money to do so? What Wolves and some others have done is no comparison of what EFC can do. You've seen Everton's books, is it reasonable to expect the Directors of Everton to pay for it with no return?
Is it reasonable for fans to demand success when we have no means of achieving success resources wise. Are we entitled to expect more success than Blackburn for example? Has developing their ground achieved success for Wolves? No they are awful.
City and Liverpool were exceptional last weekend, is that because they play in shiny stadiums? My bet is that it is something to do with the 100s of millions they spend on players. How do Everton compete with that? Oh yes, here comes a billionaire investor.
I want the same things as you, we all do but the BU isn't the way or at least not yet, they don't represent the fans and until they do the board will ignore them. The strategy they need to get right first is getting a critical mass of fans on board. I also seriously doubt the benefit of marches, empty spaces in the ground or cleverly framed stunts inside the ground.
Martin, you are just continuing to bury your head in the sand like the board do and ignore the solutions that have been put forward a number of times.
Seeing as there a few a few anti-Blue Union protesters on this site, do us a favour: Have your own anti-Blue-Union march... if you can be arsed too that is!!
What solution? Bring in an interim board to sell us? The board will never go for this and to be truthful (ironic I know) they don't have to.
They have said we are up for sale publicy many times now, if a buyer wants us, it's not like he doesn't know we are for sale.
The problem comes when they find out the price, which no doubt will be too high. Again, we have no right, as fans, to expect the board to sell their shares for anything less than what they want for them....and why should they? All people are greedy and want the highest selling price that they can get. Just because we want them gone, doesn't mean they have to accept a lesser price for their shares.
They have said we are up for sale publicy many times now, if a buyer wants us, it's not like he doesn't know we are for sale.
The problem comes when they find out the price, which no doubt will be too high. Again, we have no right, as fans, to expect the board to sell their shares for anything less than what they want for them....and why should they? All people are greedy and want the highest selling price that they can get. Just because we want them gone, doesn't mean they have to accept a lesser price for their shares.
Shaun, they won't need to if the interest dwindles away naturally.
Tony, well if that?s the case and when the inevitable happens at least they can say they had a crack at trying to make a change.
Also you never know the movement could get bigger. Swings and round-abouts.
Well, for the foreseeable future, I guess we are stuck with the current boardroom members who appear to do nothing and ride their luck.
Also you never know the movement could get bigger. Swings and round-abouts.
Well, for the foreseeable future, I guess we are stuck with the current boardroom members who appear to do nothing and ride their luck.
I think there is no doubt that the BU have some support in their method of bringing our situation to the media. Although I think every fan and indeed the board have all agreed that investment/sale of the club is imperative.
So it must be a concern to the BU that they have failed to convince more than the 250 that reportedly took part in Saturday's march. I would also suggest that some of their supporters are not only after replacing the board, but many are also suggesting a change in the manager. Now I know someone will tell me that this is not the aim of BU. So it seems they haven't got their message through to their supporters.
So it must be a concern to the BU that they have failed to convince more than the 250 that reportedly took part in Saturday's march. I would also suggest that some of their supporters are not only after replacing the board, but many are also suggesting a change in the manager. Now I know someone will tell me that this is not the aim of BU. So it seems they haven't got their message through to their supporters.
Martin ? "... installing an interim board with business expertise to oversee a sale? An achievable strategy?"
That or administration.... take your pick. Much bigger and wealthier have been forced down this route, and not so far away either. The idea is aspirational, and based on the inability of the current regime to deliver ANYTHING! BU are simply highlighting that defficiency by aspiring to something that REALLY happened elsewhere.
"How can Everton redevelop its ground when it doesn't have any money to do so? What Wolves and some others have done is no comparison of what EFC can do."
Please stop peddeling the same old nonsense and get your facts straight. Wolves have redeveloped twice, they even did it on tiny crowds in the lower divisions.... They are now showing you for a second time that, contrary to what we were all told, redevelopment can be achieved effectively and cheaply. Their previous board demonstrated the actions of true fans in securing the future of their club without financial benefit to themselves.
Don't stop there though, compare us to almost ANY other club. Take your pick. Many with smaller fanbases and far lower turnover, and many similarly without rich boards. ALL have achieved more than this board in terms of stadium development. Why? Because they had a plan and delivered.
Wolves' scheme will be delivered in affordable phases which will partly self-finance. This board have had 12 years (and more) to do similar to add to our measly exec/corporate offer, to add further quality capacity, and to reduce poorer obstructed views...... all seasons spent in the Premier League with all the financial benefits of the richest league in the world ..... Honestly, it beggers belief that anyone can find excuses for such consistently poor performance/mistakes and inability to deliver, time and time again!
"Has developing their ground achieved success for Wolves? No they are awful."
No, it has helped them maximise their revenue streams to be all that they can be, which is what we are talking about. Have other clubs benefitted from redeveloping? Would Moyes have benefitted from these increased revenues instead of suffering the lowest net spends almost every year?
"I want the same things as you, we all do but the BU isn't the way or at least not yet, they don't represent the fans and until they do the board will ignore them. The strategy they need to get right first is getting a critical mass of fans on board. I also seriously doubt the benefit of marches, empty spaces in the ground or cleverly framed stunts inside the ground."
So, you want the same things you're just not prepared to join others who want similar? Why don't you take your own advice: Join them to help reach that critical mass? Slightly contradictary though.....
That or administration.... take your pick. Much bigger and wealthier have been forced down this route, and not so far away either. The idea is aspirational, and based on the inability of the current regime to deliver ANYTHING! BU are simply highlighting that defficiency by aspiring to something that REALLY happened elsewhere.
"How can Everton redevelop its ground when it doesn't have any money to do so? What Wolves and some others have done is no comparison of what EFC can do."
Please stop peddeling the same old nonsense and get your facts straight. Wolves have redeveloped twice, they even did it on tiny crowds in the lower divisions.... They are now showing you for a second time that, contrary to what we were all told, redevelopment can be achieved effectively and cheaply. Their previous board demonstrated the actions of true fans in securing the future of their club without financial benefit to themselves.
Don't stop there though, compare us to almost ANY other club. Take your pick. Many with smaller fanbases and far lower turnover, and many similarly without rich boards. ALL have achieved more than this board in terms of stadium development. Why? Because they had a plan and delivered.
Wolves' scheme will be delivered in affordable phases which will partly self-finance. This board have had 12 years (and more) to do similar to add to our measly exec/corporate offer, to add further quality capacity, and to reduce poorer obstructed views...... all seasons spent in the Premier League with all the financial benefits of the richest league in the world ..... Honestly, it beggers belief that anyone can find excuses for such consistently poor performance/mistakes and inability to deliver, time and time again!
"Has developing their ground achieved success for Wolves? No they are awful."
No, it has helped them maximise their revenue streams to be all that they can be, which is what we are talking about. Have other clubs benefitted from redeveloping? Would Moyes have benefitted from these increased revenues instead of suffering the lowest net spends almost every year?
"I want the same things as you, we all do but the BU isn't the way or at least not yet, they don't represent the fans and until they do the board will ignore them. The strategy they need to get right first is getting a critical mass of fans on board. I also seriously doubt the benefit of marches, empty spaces in the ground or cleverly framed stunts inside the ground."
So, you want the same things you're just not prepared to join others who want similar? Why don't you take your own advice: Join them to help reach that critical mass? Slightly contradictary though.....
Brian,
Please see the video evidence that shows that substantially more than 250 attended. 250 wouldn't fill the Winslow, yet I was barely in Goodison Rd when the march ground to a halt having already filled the road.
The BU previously chanted the club's and manager's names, so I really don't think this is an integral issue.... However, during the recent run of poor results I heard more people in the ground turning on Moyes rather than BK, which perhaps illustrates the effectiveness of the club's propaganda during the turmoil.
Please see the video evidence that shows that substantially more than 250 attended. 250 wouldn't fill the Winslow, yet I was barely in Goodison Rd when the march ground to a halt having already filled the road.
The BU previously chanted the club's and manager's names, so I really don't think this is an integral issue.... However, during the recent run of poor results I heard more people in the ground turning on Moyes rather than BK, which perhaps illustrates the effectiveness of the club's propaganda during the turmoil.
Brian, you say - "So it must be a concern to the BU that they have failed to convince more than the 250 that reportedly took part in Saturdays march".
'Reportedly'?
Presumably you believe that Freddie Starr DID eat a hamster and there WAS a double-decker bus found on the moon.
I would suggest the BU's main problem is that there are Evertonians out there prepared to believe what they read in papers - papers that have PROVED themselves to be liars and PROVED themselves morally bankrupt
(and many who are so far up Bill's 50's tea-towel holder, they can almost touch Doddy)
'Reportedly'?
Presumably you believe that Freddie Starr DID eat a hamster and there WAS a double-decker bus found on the moon.
I would suggest the BU's main problem is that there are Evertonians out there prepared to believe what they read in papers - papers that have PROVED themselves to be liars and PROVED themselves morally bankrupt
(and many who are so far up Bill's 50's tea-towel holder, they can almost touch Doddy)
Tom
I was only quoting what figure the reporters suggested were on the march. My season ticket is in the Upper Bullens so I don't go down Goodison Road. My main point is that most Evertonians want new investment, yet somehow the BU have seemed to alienate most Evertonians.
I was only quoting what figure the reporters suggested were on the march. My season ticket is in the Upper Bullens so I don't go down Goodison Road. My main point is that most Evertonians want new investment, yet somehow the BU have seemed to alienate most Evertonians.
Brian, it's probably best to ignore the paper talk, look on youtube for the videos and reports from people who were there.
Granted, there may be some embelishment but the numbers will be closer to the truth than a paper "that owes the club one".
Granted, there may be some embelishment but the numbers will be closer to the truth than a paper "that owes the club one".
Brian (109)
I suggest that there are none BU supporters who advocate a change in manager also. It wouldn't necessary be a bad thing would it?
(113)
Yes there are some fans who have been alienated by the BU. These mostly are the "see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil" element of our support.
I suggest that there are none BU supporters who advocate a change in manager also. It wouldn't necessary be a bad thing would it?
(113)
Yes there are some fans who have been alienated by the BU. These mostly are the "see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil" element of our support.
Eugene
Well not being in Goodison Road at the time I have to go by the figures reported and not just by the written media. But lets assume there was double what was reported, considering we all want new investment it was still a poor turnout.
So I still say it seems as if BU are not convincing most Evertonians there methods are correct in achieving what we all want.
Well not being in Goodison Road at the time I have to go by the figures reported and not just by the written media. But lets assume there was double what was reported, considering we all want new investment it was still a poor turnout.
So I still say it seems as if BU are not convincing most Evertonians there methods are correct in achieving what we all want.
Nobody seems to take one aspect of our fanbase into consideration.
A major proportion just aren't arsed. I was talking to a season ticket holder yesterday, who didn't know there were other major shareholders on the board apart form BK.
Who knows what percentage of our fanbase this amounts to?
How many who actually go to the game are familiar with what is going on in the boardroom?
My guess is that the majority go the game, and apart from the local & national news, that is as far as their interest goes in all things Everton. They have other worries to contend with in life.
A major proportion just aren't arsed. I was talking to a season ticket holder yesterday, who didn't know there were other major shareholders on the board apart form BK.
Who knows what percentage of our fanbase this amounts to?
How many who actually go to the game are familiar with what is going on in the boardroom?
My guess is that the majority go the game, and apart from the local & national news, that is as far as their interest goes in all things Everton. They have other worries to contend with in life.
Brian,
How much do you really "want new investment?".... You accept that "we all want" this yet you're not prepared to turnout? Do you think this perhaps says more about your convictions than the BU's methods? How else do you think they should register their protest?
Unfortunately, many who represent the thousands of hits they have on their websites are already voting with their feet.... on average 4-5k down on the same fixtures last year. Perhaps our misplaced loyalty continues to let this board off the hook.... but it's becoming less and less sustainable. Unfortunately, some won't see it till we're in the abyss!
As far as "the 250" goes.... I can only say that never in the field of human protest has so few looked like so many! You can see why they didn't use "the 300" can't you? Judge for yourself, there's plenty of video evidence.
How much do you really "want new investment?".... You accept that "we all want" this yet you're not prepared to turnout? Do you think this perhaps says more about your convictions than the BU's methods? How else do you think they should register their protest?
Unfortunately, many who represent the thousands of hits they have on their websites are already voting with their feet.... on average 4-5k down on the same fixtures last year. Perhaps our misplaced loyalty continues to let this board off the hook.... but it's becoming less and less sustainable. Unfortunately, some won't see it till we're in the abyss!
As far as "the 250" goes.... I can only say that never in the field of human protest has so few looked like so many! You can see why they didn't use "the 300" can't you? Judge for yourself, there's plenty of video evidence.
The only thing that will make people take notice is league position.
Only when we've been relegated will some fans find a voice.
The protest marches are keeping Everton under the microscope, which in turn keeps us in the news, and by keeping us in the news, it will attract attention hopefully from a buyer.
Only when we've been relegated will some fans find a voice.
The protest marches are keeping Everton under the microscope, which in turn keeps us in the news, and by keeping us in the news, it will attract attention hopefully from a buyer.
Brian - ''let's assume'?
Ok, let's...assume.
Let's assume that there are some who just don't like the idea of marching through the streets.
Why?
They just don't (they're 'not the type').
"Yes but if they REALLY believe..."
Bollocks...and I'll attempt to prove it.
Every 12th of July, protestants march about in Northern Ireland (not really sure why but they do).
The majority of protestants in Northen Ireland however aren't actually IN the march, but stand on the sides watching/applauding etc.
Does that mean they DON'T agree with the marchers?
Does it mean they're ANTI the marchers?
Not at all - their applause says 'we're with you'.
"Ah but not EVERYONE is applauding the BU - those not applauding might disagree!"
Possibly but they're hardly showing the commitment you seem to demand.
I mean those in Northern Ireland who ARE anti-12th, often DO get organised and DO march/protest.
It has been (possibly jokingly) suggested on TW that those who are anti BU, form themselves into an anti-BU group and march.
By your 'logic', we would see 30,000 in that march...wouldn't we?
Ok, let's...assume.
Let's assume that there are some who just don't like the idea of marching through the streets.
Why?
They just don't (they're 'not the type').
"Yes but if they REALLY believe..."
Bollocks...and I'll attempt to prove it.
Every 12th of July, protestants march about in Northern Ireland (not really sure why but they do).
The majority of protestants in Northen Ireland however aren't actually IN the march, but stand on the sides watching/applauding etc.
Does that mean they DON'T agree with the marchers?
Does it mean they're ANTI the marchers?
Not at all - their applause says 'we're with you'.
"Ah but not EVERYONE is applauding the BU - those not applauding might disagree!"
Possibly but they're hardly showing the commitment you seem to demand.
I mean those in Northern Ireland who ARE anti-12th, often DO get organised and DO march/protest.
It has been (possibly jokingly) suggested on TW that those who are anti BU, form themselves into an anti-BU group and march.
By your 'logic', we would see 30,000 in that march...wouldn't we?
Tom 110, you missed my point. I didn't say that developing the ground wouldn't be beneficial. What I asked was how they did it finance wise. We have no money to develop the ground; several other clubs have done it but with help from local government and from board members who were committed enough to put their own money. They did it when they were in the lower divisions too and their grounds are not Goodison Park. We have neither and when our major need now is to spare some money up for players then we have less than nothing. When we developed the ground in the past (Goodison Road) the team suffered as Arsenal have suffered since investing in the Emirates.
It isn't as black or white as being for or against the BU. At the moment, for me, they are an irrelevance as they have the support of a tiny minority of Everton fans and those who don't overtly support the BU don't have to march, we are the majority and we support the null hypothesis which is that no changes should be made unless they can be shown to be fully justifiable by some real measure ? not just change for change sake.
The BU has no position yet, when they get one that I see as positive and workable, I'll join them and even help with effort and finance. Until then, they can do their own thing as long as they don't incorrectly claim to be representing my viewpoint or that of many thousands of Evertonians.
It isn't as black or white as being for or against the BU. At the moment, for me, they are an irrelevance as they have the support of a tiny minority of Everton fans and those who don't overtly support the BU don't have to march, we are the majority and we support the null hypothesis which is that no changes should be made unless they can be shown to be fully justifiable by some real measure ? not just change for change sake.
The BU has no position yet, when they get one that I see as positive and workable, I'll join them and even help with effort and finance. Until then, they can do their own thing as long as they don't incorrectly claim to be representing my viewpoint or that of many thousands of Evertonians.
Tom (#97)
"Hold on, wouldn't that still be a march? surely not?"
No it wouldnt just be a march it would be a statement of the wishes of the fanbase... at least an overwhelming majority of them. Any march of this nature is symbolism... you have several hundred and you are a restive minority... you have ten thousand and it is a policy statement.
"Again, tell us something we don't know. Explain HOW they do all this in your opinion. We all know what needs to happen and that is what they are working towards."
I never said you didn't know it, did I, Tom? You asked me what the BU should do so I told you what they should do. How they do it ? you know as well. You say it yourself. You have access to thousands of fans through social networking, getting access to thousands more is simplicity itself as you KNOW where the enthusiastic ones will be most home matchdays! Give them a message that 'turns them on' to the cause and get them behind you. Job done!
The problem is you aren't giving them that message. You think matchday fans don't know who the Blue Union is? You think those who sit in the stands and watch Bilyaletdinov get dispossessed for the third time in 5 minutes or Heitinga blouse a challenge don't know that the team is suffering with some real poor quality and needs money pumped in? I cannot, honestly, see how anyone can go to the match and not be aware of these things. So, if they ARE aware but are not getting involved with the BU, the problem has to be that they don't feel the BU offers anything worth their effort? That stands to reason, yes?
I dont think that the current generation of fans, even luddite hard-core Evertonians of the type we all know and love, are scared by change. I don't think there is any particular loyalty in the fanbase to the current board. I certainly don't think Kenwright's credentials as an Evertonian carry any interest for the fanbase as a whole at all. I think Woods's credentials as a blue and his family's history with the club would do, but, I don't think many fans would know him if they tripped over him on the street. So the problem isn't that there is no desire for better.
The problem is choice... or, more to the point, lack of it. There is talk about an interim board. Where is it? Who is it? I'm asking because I want to hear what these people think, say and believe the prospects are for my club before I vote for them. It's the X-Factor generation remember.
You want people on board, give them a positive choice and a way to make things better. Right now, your only message is to tell the board 'if you love the club leave'. Then what? You are asking every fan with an emotional attachment to the club to take it on faith that what comes next will be better? It, arguably, wasn't last time... was it? Kenwright bought out Johnson and it was 'meet the new boss same as the old boss' wasn't it? The old hands will remember that and that's just one more hurdle you have to overcome.
"So, it is an uphill struggle and the more help rather than criticism would be appreciated if you really share their aims."
Tom, it's only an uphill struggle because the BU have got it fundamentally wrong. They've got the cart before the horse, but, rather than see it and try and fix it, they are charging on heedlessly with their cheering squad shouting down anyone who's trying to point this out to them! Get the mandate first... then make your statements as the one clear voice of Evertons fans. Until then, why am I going to help you go in the wrong direction and strengthen the board's position still further?
"This is patronising nonsense. Controlling emotions? You are advocating "doing nothing"...... applying pressure subliminally?"
No I'm advocating taking action that will enhance the club's attractiveness to buyers and building up a real body of support to give a clear message to the current leadership that they have used up all our patience and that we, as a fanbase, hold them accountable for their failures.
Clearly now they do not believe their positions are untenable as they expect to be able to spin their way out of it Rossy style. The BU's message is NOT getting through because you do not represent anything but yourselves. You are the ones 'doing nothing', despite all the noise and fury, apart from patting each other on the back and feeling like you are the revolutionary heroes storming the Bastille of course!
"It is not a conspiracy theory to know that despite looking for his entire tenure they still have not secured investment or a buyer when ALL others have..... some more than once, many with smaller fanbases and turnovers!"
Cost to take us forward Tom. We are at the plateau that other, smaller, clubs will reach in due time. Their attractiveness will diminish at that point as well. We've covered this elsewhere on other threads so I'm not going to drag this off on a tangent to repeat my earlier contentions.
"Who buys us is all important, and the more cash they have left after the sale to push the club forward even better..... so yes the asking price is quite important."
Er...no. Madejski said this the best way I know how: 'I'll sell Reading but only to a billionaire....for Premier League football, millionaires need not apply'. We don't want anyone who's counting the pennies after they buy the club. We have that kind of owner already. Remember all those players that Randy Lerner just sold to balance the books at Villa? How about the rather big sell-offs at Sunderland by their sugar-daddy? We can do that without owing a sugar-daddy millions thanks. Who buys us is important... the price on the club will be what the buyer wants to pay.
"Hold on, wouldn't that still be a march? surely not?"
No it wouldnt just be a march it would be a statement of the wishes of the fanbase... at least an overwhelming majority of them. Any march of this nature is symbolism... you have several hundred and you are a restive minority... you have ten thousand and it is a policy statement.
"Again, tell us something we don't know. Explain HOW they do all this in your opinion. We all know what needs to happen and that is what they are working towards."
I never said you didn't know it, did I, Tom? You asked me what the BU should do so I told you what they should do. How they do it ? you know as well. You say it yourself. You have access to thousands of fans through social networking, getting access to thousands more is simplicity itself as you KNOW where the enthusiastic ones will be most home matchdays! Give them a message that 'turns them on' to the cause and get them behind you. Job done!
The problem is you aren't giving them that message. You think matchday fans don't know who the Blue Union is? You think those who sit in the stands and watch Bilyaletdinov get dispossessed for the third time in 5 minutes or Heitinga blouse a challenge don't know that the team is suffering with some real poor quality and needs money pumped in? I cannot, honestly, see how anyone can go to the match and not be aware of these things. So, if they ARE aware but are not getting involved with the BU, the problem has to be that they don't feel the BU offers anything worth their effort? That stands to reason, yes?
I dont think that the current generation of fans, even luddite hard-core Evertonians of the type we all know and love, are scared by change. I don't think there is any particular loyalty in the fanbase to the current board. I certainly don't think Kenwright's credentials as an Evertonian carry any interest for the fanbase as a whole at all. I think Woods's credentials as a blue and his family's history with the club would do, but, I don't think many fans would know him if they tripped over him on the street. So the problem isn't that there is no desire for better.
The problem is choice... or, more to the point, lack of it. There is talk about an interim board. Where is it? Who is it? I'm asking because I want to hear what these people think, say and believe the prospects are for my club before I vote for them. It's the X-Factor generation remember.
You want people on board, give them a positive choice and a way to make things better. Right now, your only message is to tell the board 'if you love the club leave'. Then what? You are asking every fan with an emotional attachment to the club to take it on faith that what comes next will be better? It, arguably, wasn't last time... was it? Kenwright bought out Johnson and it was 'meet the new boss same as the old boss' wasn't it? The old hands will remember that and that's just one more hurdle you have to overcome.
"So, it is an uphill struggle and the more help rather than criticism would be appreciated if you really share their aims."
Tom, it's only an uphill struggle because the BU have got it fundamentally wrong. They've got the cart before the horse, but, rather than see it and try and fix it, they are charging on heedlessly with their cheering squad shouting down anyone who's trying to point this out to them! Get the mandate first... then make your statements as the one clear voice of Evertons fans. Until then, why am I going to help you go in the wrong direction and strengthen the board's position still further?
"This is patronising nonsense. Controlling emotions? You are advocating "doing nothing"...... applying pressure subliminally?"
No I'm advocating taking action that will enhance the club's attractiveness to buyers and building up a real body of support to give a clear message to the current leadership that they have used up all our patience and that we, as a fanbase, hold them accountable for their failures.
Clearly now they do not believe their positions are untenable as they expect to be able to spin their way out of it Rossy style. The BU's message is NOT getting through because you do not represent anything but yourselves. You are the ones 'doing nothing', despite all the noise and fury, apart from patting each other on the back and feeling like you are the revolutionary heroes storming the Bastille of course!
"It is not a conspiracy theory to know that despite looking for his entire tenure they still have not secured investment or a buyer when ALL others have..... some more than once, many with smaller fanbases and turnovers!"
Cost to take us forward Tom. We are at the plateau that other, smaller, clubs will reach in due time. Their attractiveness will diminish at that point as well. We've covered this elsewhere on other threads so I'm not going to drag this off on a tangent to repeat my earlier contentions.
"Who buys us is all important, and the more cash they have left after the sale to push the club forward even better..... so yes the asking price is quite important."
Er...no. Madejski said this the best way I know how: 'I'll sell Reading but only to a billionaire....for Premier League football, millionaires need not apply'. We don't want anyone who's counting the pennies after they buy the club. We have that kind of owner already. Remember all those players that Randy Lerner just sold to balance the books at Villa? How about the rather big sell-offs at Sunderland by their sugar-daddy? We can do that without owing a sugar-daddy millions thanks. Who buys us is important... the price on the club will be what the buyer wants to pay.
Martin,
I'm sorry but you are talking in riddles..... one moment you accept the need for change, the next you try to defend failure.
If only one or two other clubs had managed to redevelop I might take your point... but not when practically ALL of them have achieved where we haven't. Most of them with a smaller fanbase and even less turnover and boardroom wealth than ours. The Wolves model could've, and can still be applied to Goodison Park.... it has been used all over the league.
How many examples do you need? you could call it the Spurs model; the Villa model; the Newcastle model; the Charlton model; the almost anything you like model. You also conveniently forget the missed opportunity of Kings Dock. Infrastructure investment CAN take place in parallel to team investment because developments can raise significant funds of their own both during development and operational stages. Arsenal's team may have suffered since since going to the Emirates (have we ever finished above them?) but they're matchday income dwarfs ours, they can still buy our best players and their future is assured.
At the end of the day the comparison is a weak one in anycase, since GP has attributes that Highbury didn't, and therefore 4 new stands are not needed straight away. For instance, just one new Bullens stand (or an extension to the existing one) could provide for all our immediate and medium-term needs. This could've been achieved at any point in the past 12 years and would've been much cheaper than the proposed DK, and would've been providing team funds.
In other words, you're papering over the endless lies and mistakes that have brought us to this point.... If the current incumbents are not "as committed" as those elsewhere (as you state) then that's reason enough for protest on its own. BTW when we redeveloped the mainstand our matchday income was the highest in the league, and we could still break transfer records.... so again, I'm not sure what your point is.
I believe the vast majority of Evertonians know that it's time for change, and that this board have failed us.... (they certainly are the majority on this and every other Everton website). Only the blind and ignorant would accept our current predicament. Marching or indeed protesting in anyway certainly doesn't come natural to me.... but given the gravity of our current state I'll put that aversion aside. To suggest that change isn't justifiable is quite frankly beyond a joke.... what will it take for you? Relegation?
Daniel is probably right.... a few more defeats and the howls of derision and empty seats will increase.... but how daft is that when the reprehensible and sometimes catastrophic failures, and cock-ups have already taken place, and are affecting our club NOW?
I'm sorry but you are talking in riddles..... one moment you accept the need for change, the next you try to defend failure.
If only one or two other clubs had managed to redevelop I might take your point... but not when practically ALL of them have achieved where we haven't. Most of them with a smaller fanbase and even less turnover and boardroom wealth than ours. The Wolves model could've, and can still be applied to Goodison Park.... it has been used all over the league.
How many examples do you need? you could call it the Spurs model; the Villa model; the Newcastle model; the Charlton model; the almost anything you like model. You also conveniently forget the missed opportunity of Kings Dock. Infrastructure investment CAN take place in parallel to team investment because developments can raise significant funds of their own both during development and operational stages. Arsenal's team may have suffered since since going to the Emirates (have we ever finished above them?) but they're matchday income dwarfs ours, they can still buy our best players and their future is assured.
At the end of the day the comparison is a weak one in anycase, since GP has attributes that Highbury didn't, and therefore 4 new stands are not needed straight away. For instance, just one new Bullens stand (or an extension to the existing one) could provide for all our immediate and medium-term needs. This could've been achieved at any point in the past 12 years and would've been much cheaper than the proposed DK, and would've been providing team funds.
In other words, you're papering over the endless lies and mistakes that have brought us to this point.... If the current incumbents are not "as committed" as those elsewhere (as you state) then that's reason enough for protest on its own. BTW when we redeveloped the mainstand our matchday income was the highest in the league, and we could still break transfer records.... so again, I'm not sure what your point is.
I believe the vast majority of Evertonians know that it's time for change, and that this board have failed us.... (they certainly are the majority on this and every other Everton website). Only the blind and ignorant would accept our current predicament. Marching or indeed protesting in anyway certainly doesn't come natural to me.... but given the gravity of our current state I'll put that aversion aside. To suggest that change isn't justifiable is quite frankly beyond a joke.... what will it take for you? Relegation?
Daniel is probably right.... a few more defeats and the howls of derision and empty seats will increase.... but how daft is that when the reprehensible and sometimes catastrophic failures, and cock-ups have already taken place, and are affecting our club NOW?
Steve,
So you'll be volunteering your services then, and accepting Colin's invitation?!
Or are you all talk and hot air....? I can't see anything you say that hasn't already been tried thus far.
You forget it's relatively early days for the BU.... they do get literally thousands of supporters on their websites, just as SOS did with their campaign, but even they couldn't generate marches of tens of thousands....
The thousands of clapping/chanting fans on Goodison Rd is not the bad start some are trying to paint...
So you'll be volunteering your services then, and accepting Colin's invitation?!
Or are you all talk and hot air....? I can't see anything you say that hasn't already been tried thus far.
You forget it's relatively early days for the BU.... they do get literally thousands of supporters on their websites, just as SOS did with their campaign, but even they couldn't generate marches of tens of thousands....
The thousands of clapping/chanting fans on Goodison Rd is not the bad start some are trying to paint...
Just seen on another website the local rag is asking Evertonians to write in with their veiws. Goes by this headline:
"Help us make the Liverpool Echo's coverage of Everton FC right for you."
"Help us make the Liverpool Echo's coverage of Everton FC right for you."
Tom 124
You wonder why people arent buying into the BU method. Well, your last two posts sum up the main reason. You can't accept that anyone who isn't on the march or has a differing point of view can't be as passionate about the club.
I have been going to Goodison since 1956 and been a season ticket holder for 39 years, and what you need to ask is Why is the BU involving a small minority of fans?
I am no apologist for Kenwright but the guy invited you in for talks, something constructive could have come out of that meeting but the path the BU took ruled out any further talks. Then they decide to hold a protest march against the present board... fair enough, but then decide that something so important should have a guy in a clown's outfit to lead the march.
You wonder why people arent buying into the BU method. Well, your last two posts sum up the main reason. You can't accept that anyone who isn't on the march or has a differing point of view can't be as passionate about the club.
I have been going to Goodison since 1956 and been a season ticket holder for 39 years, and what you need to ask is Why is the BU involving a small minority of fans?
I am no apologist for Kenwright but the guy invited you in for talks, something constructive could have come out of that meeting but the path the BU took ruled out any further talks. Then they decide to hold a protest march against the present board... fair enough, but then decide that something so important should have a guy in a clown's outfit to lead the march.
Mick 125, the link supplied by the local rag doesn't even work. Does nobody at the echo review the comments?
Seen the comments, Shaun... it's a fucking disgrace and that's supposed to be the local paper. See how long it takes to fix it... all them vouchers all us Blues are missing out on.
Brian,
I've just re-read them.... and what's your point? What is the offending article?
I am not the BU, and speak for myself..... and just give MY opinion. I have also been a season ticket holder for almost 40yrs and shareholder for almost half of that.... but what's the relevance?
I have no idea what your "differing point of view" is...... all you said was that you didn't see the march. I did, I was there, and far from alienating most Evertonians, I saw everyone clapping and joining in..... no disparaging remarks and certainly No anti-BU chants at all.
I offer facts, you offer insinuation. BU posted the revelations as was their duty, and you appear to want to shoot the messenger instead of referring to the real issues and content of their report...... the clown outfit was an individual's choice..... how does it affect the club going down the pan....? Why is even an issue to you?
I've just re-read them.... and what's your point? What is the offending article?
I am not the BU, and speak for myself..... and just give MY opinion. I have also been a season ticket holder for almost 40yrs and shareholder for almost half of that.... but what's the relevance?
I have no idea what your "differing point of view" is...... all you said was that you didn't see the march. I did, I was there, and far from alienating most Evertonians, I saw everyone clapping and joining in..... no disparaging remarks and certainly No anti-BU chants at all.
I offer facts, you offer insinuation. BU posted the revelations as was their duty, and you appear to want to shoot the messenger instead of referring to the real issues and content of their report...... the clown outfit was an individual's choice..... how does it affect the club going down the pan....? Why is even an issue to you?
Tom, no doubt those blinkered supporters who blame KEIOC for the failure of Desperation Kirkby will blame the BU when we go into administration or are relegated.
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