Everton News, Season 2011-12

Moyes & Kenwright on Sky

01/04/2012 |  78 Comments: First  |  Last
In this video clip that aired on Goals on Sunday, David Moyes and Bill Kenwright look back over 10 years under the Scotsman's management of Everton Football Club, including some interesting comments from Kenwright about one single topic: Money.

".. David gets every single solitary brass farthing available..."

"... We've never really spoken valuation of the club..."

"I have no idea on the valuation of the club, it changes every week."

Original Source: Sky Sports

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Eugene Ruane
318   Posted 01/04/2012 at 21:57:07

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I watched it and when watching BK, the old Bob Monkhouse line occurred.

I"m paraphrasing but..

BM on comedy - "Sincerity in this business is absolutely everything. Audiences expect complete sincerity...so if you can learn to fake sincerity, you"re in with a chance".
Tony Doran
320   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:06:40

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I cringe everytime Kenwright gets near a camera. When asked who would play Moyes if a film was ever made he responded Steve McQueen. If they could get Steve McQueen then maybe one day we can win the Champions Leaque.
Denis Richardson
321   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:15:59

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Eugene - thats a Groucho Marx line that Bob Monkhouse copied, line was 'the most important thing in life is sincerity, if you can fake that then you've got it made'..something along those lines anyway..

God I hope this double act of BK and DM doesn't continue for another 5 years!
Andy Meighan
322   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:16:59

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Surely he meant Gordon McQueen.

By the way, did anyone watch that programme tonight about that thing they spent millions on? It was famous years ago but it ended up slowly sinking... Liverpool on MotD2.
Steve Guy
323   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:21:15

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Glad I missed it
Andy Peers
325   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:29:11

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Don't watch the clip, it will make your blood boil and vomit all at the same time and then you will form a double hernia.

Kenwright says 97.5% to 98% of the fans not only understand what they do for the club, but also love what they do for the club. With math like that no wonder we can't put a price on our club.
Tony McNulty
326   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:31:08

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I think that the one-time management guru Tom Peters advised managers as to the importance of "authenticity", adding, "if you can fake that you can fake anything."

I know. But I had to imbibe a great deal of management literature at one time. I still have to actually. And I read once that David Moyes reads business and other management books.
Eugene Ruane
327   Posted 01/04/2012 at 22:21:13

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Sounds like a Groucho Marx line Denis.

Jsus watching that this morning - Bill is SUCH a snake-oil salesman.

All the humble "hey I'm just a fan" shit goes right through me.

The man has treated Everton supporters like fucking idiots for years and imo does so every time he opens his yap.

Yet you know there will STILL have been many watching that this morning and thinking "Ok so he"s not perfect but..."

I've mentioned this before, but with all 'good' con-men, they know they don"t have to convince EVERYONE and they know many will be aware of EXACTLY who and what they are,

But they also know that they just need enough to believe them.

And if this "figure" is achieved, they're...in business.



Peter Laing
333   Posted 01/04/2012 at 23:14:25

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Everton Football Club for sale for the past 3 years, 24/7 search for investment ongoing ad infinitum and the Chairman has no idea what he believes is a true valuation of the Club?
Ste Traverse
334   Posted 01/04/2012 at 23:41:31

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No suprise to see that shithouse Kenwright coming crawling out of the woodwork with us currently on a good run.

Where has he been all season?

Wait until Wembley week. He'll never be off the telly or the radio.
Carl Sanderson
354   Posted 02/04/2012 at 07:18:47

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Portsmouth, Rangers and Port Vale have all had bidders in the last two weeks. Vale, currently in administration, had no fewer than seven separate proposals. In that context it is a mystery that Everton can't be sold.
Chris Leyland
358   Posted 02/04/2012 at 07:54:34

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Carl, the fact these other clubs are in liquidation is exactly why they have attracted bidders. They may come out of administration with their debts wiped out, thus making them an attractive purchase for buyers.
Alan Williams
362   Posted 02/04/2012 at 07:54:43

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Carl, obviously its school holiday time and your parents haven?t taken you away, maybe some extra lessons in mathematics and business studies as you seem to think buying EFC is the same as buying a business out of administration?

Everton have bidders interested it?s just the investment required in to the club that is causing the problem. EFC could have new owners, yes... but we would still be in the same predicament, maybe even worse.

I have said this from day one this issue is bigger than your like or dislike of BK, we all want new owners but it has to be the right person or consortium that can take us forward; the problem in taking EFC forward is you need cash and quite a lot of it that probably won't be recouped, chicken and egg scenario sadly.

I?m told from a good source that we have an American party playing ball more than the others who have expressed interest... fingers crossed as I have been told this before!
James McPherson
363   Posted 02/04/2012 at 08:40:04

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In my mond, this appearance has the hallmark of a national, live on TV job interview, where the interviewee Moyes has even brought along his reference. Reward for 10 years loyal service!
Eugene Ruane
364   Posted 02/04/2012 at 08:31:54

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Alan if you have a 'good source' and don't want to say who or what it is, that is perfectly understandable.

I know I wouldn't reveal the name of a source if they gave me such information.

However what imo is NOT acceptable, is..mentioning it in the first place.

If you're not going to say who are what the source is, the post is pointless - again, imo.
Carl Sanderson
365   Posted 02/04/2012 at 09:10:38

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Alan,

Actually my parents are no longer alive; and I have a mathematics degree. I just know little about business. I do, however, know how to be polite to people.
Kev Johnson
366   Posted 02/04/2012 at 09:20:55

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Perfect riposte, Carl!

[Prolonged applause]
Paul Carr
367   Posted 02/04/2012 at 09:26:25

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Unbelievably BK actually states that he has given Everton every penny that he has!
In his dreams perhaps...in the accounts the truth shows he has given zero. No doubt he has also invested far more into his theatrical business.The interviewer failed to respond with the obvious question- just how many pennies woud that be?
Don't forget this was shown on April Fools Day!
Paul Norman
368   Posted 02/04/2012 at 09:01:24

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I watched this with interest yesterday. The overriding feeling (for me) was that Mr Moyes, as ever, was honest, personable, and came out of it with credit. He was humble, and not very at ease with the effusive praise (and video montages) that was directed at his time with us. It seems like he was frustrated at the lack of funds available to him, but understood the parameters with which he has to work, and he seems to be very definitely in charge of the footballing side of the club. I?m firmly, and unapologetically, a fan of Moyes. Whilst I share the frustration at some of his decisions, I still feel like he is the best manager for Everton FC now, and deserves an opportunity to manage this team with more investment, if that eventuality should ever play out.

Kenwright was at his cringeworthy best, and said very little of interest. He managed to dodge that question on the value that he puts on the club. The question that should have been asked was ?How much are the shares in the club for sale at??. All of the stuff about the level of investment required was interesting and I think could show that he is trying to do what is right for the club, but doesn?t really give us a clue as to the basic amount to just take control away from the current board. ?Evertonians don?t want another Bill Kenwright? (to paraphrase) at least showed that he?s aware that he is unable to provide the investment needed to run the club in a competitive way. I don?t know however, that we should expect an answer the real question if asked. Why should he weaken his hand in getting what he/the board needs, by stating anything on national TV, however much us Evertonians think we have a right to know?
Eric Myles
369   Posted 02/04/2012 at 08:24:14

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"Everton have bidders interested it?s just the investment required in to the club that is causing the problem."

More likely the asking price is causing the problem.

I was just thinking last night while watching Newcastle humiliate the RS that Ashley was asking £110 million for Newcastle which is a much better prospect to buy than us, but he couldn't find a buyer.

So how can Bill be asking anywhere near that?
Richard Dodd
377   Posted 02/04/2012 at 10:47:39

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Ashley wants £110M for his shares and money he has put into the club.BK was referring to the investment to cover borrowings and ground development.
I think he will do well to get `his`money back for shares he holds.The `ubiquitous £1 comes to mind!
Richard Reeves
378   Posted 02/04/2012 at 10:37:36

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My mate was recording it for me but i told him to get rid of it as it will just make me feel ill.He watches a lot of that goals on Sunday programe and the other programe where they discuss the sports pages along with soccer Saturday and like myself he thinks Kenright is a bullshiting actor.
The media are going to go into overdrive on semi final day with Kenright reminising of his days in the stands and how he didn't eat for three days so he could afford a match day ticket or some sort of shit like that.If any Evertonian is interviewed about Kenright at Wembley,I beg you,don't give in to the occasion or the alcohol and just say it how it is.The more the truth the less air time he gets.
Peter Foy
379   Posted 02/04/2012 at 10:55:40

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Bill borrowed the money from Green to buy the club. The club is now worth less than it was due to years of mismanagement.

Three ways out are -

1, Bill/Green are willing to lose out on their initial investment.

2, Wait untill the value rises, to pre Bill levels, again and then sell.

3, Administration, taking all control away from current owners.
Julian Exshaw
395   Posted 02/04/2012 at 12:24:59

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At a risk of being slaughtered on this forum and accused of being mind-bogglingly naive, I actually love these two. I think they have a really genuine love for the club and are doing their best. I would rather the club remain in their hands any day than some overseas billionaire would would hire and fire at a whim and destroy all that is great about our club. If this means that success is fleeting, so be it. I don't live on Merseyside and quite frankly don't understand the politics of it all. Just a view from afar.
Alan Williams
406   Posted 02/04/2012 at 13:09:40

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Carl, its called sarcasm based around your weak post and by no means a referral to your parents. If you think somebody offering to buy Port Vale is on par with the purchase EFC then you?re deluded, degree or not.

Eugene, I really wish I could but I can?t for obvious reasons, what I can say is it?s genuine. EFC had two interested parties in January this year but it got stalled... not sure why, but it did; I believe it even went as far as due diligence.

I was told about the Nike deal last year by one of these people and the Jelavic deal a week before it happened, well longer because this person was involved in it. I?m really positive we will be sold and for once we can all concentrate on football matters as opposed to sparing with each other on post like this. I'm forever the optimist, I suppose.
Peter Foy
409   Posted 02/04/2012 at 13:31:59

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Alan, I really hope you're right.

All I expect from new owners is a plan, a renewed sense of hope and unity, because right now there's none.

Is it possible that the deals stalled on finding out the asking price, or as they got as far as due diligence, finding out the state of the club's financial affairs?
James Flynn
410   Posted 02/04/2012 at 13:42:58

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Alan (406 and others) - Good stuff. Great having someone privy to close-hold information on the club.
Richard Dodd
415   Posted 02/04/2012 at 14:12:16

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Alan, I suspect that your source is one I used to `buy into` but no longer trust.

I was told on Saturday that an American group called `Club 9 `were well advanced with due dilligence but a little delving led to the discovery that the same people had a derisory bid of £2M turned down by Sheffield Wednesday last year and are currently in talks with Rangers... (Who isn't?)

No more than kite flying, I suspect... although it could equally be the BK Misinformation Service at work!
Eugene Ruane
419   Posted 02/04/2012 at 13:52:58

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Julian (395) - You say..

"I actually love these two. I think they have a really genuine love for the club and are doing their best".

I will say only this.

If you get any emails from Nigeria telling you that you have been left £143 million in a will, do NOT send them any money.

It's a trick.
Richard Dodd
425   Posted 02/04/2012 at 14:56:20

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Meant to say go to www.club9sports.com to learn all about investment `in the EPL`.
Carl Sanderson
453   Posted 02/04/2012 at 16:58:40

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Chris #358

I see - thanks, Chris.
Paul Johnson
468   Posted 02/04/2012 at 18:10:14

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Eugene #419 - LMAO :-)
Alan Williams
469   Posted 02/04/2012 at 18:03:40

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Richard, who knows if they are correct? Sometimes I think it's more me wanting them to be correct as I, like others, want us to move on. The people I have met through business are not Evertonians, far from it, but they told me things when they realised I followed EFC.

They are genuinely involved in football finance at a high level in the City; if I?m really honest, meeting them has soured the whole thing for me because they don?t give a damn about the clubs they speak too. Sadly, through a client of mine, I have to deal with them for many more months.
Sam Hoare
475   Posted 02/04/2012 at 18:30:46

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Big fan of Moyes, feel the opposite about Kenwright.

In fact it makes me furious and it makes me dislike Moyes because it has really only been his good work that has saved Kenwright's total mismanagement of this club from seeing us sink down the leagues.

Some of the garbage he spouts. Moyes must be a little embarrassed surely as he strikes me as a man of genuine integrity... (Unless he's just a better actor than Bill?!)
Eugene Ruane
485   Posted 02/04/2012 at 19:19:26

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Sam, according to BK yesterday, you'll be able to judge his OTHER acting style in the weeks to come, on Corrie.

Ken 'Jigsaw' Barlow: "I..I..can"t believe what I've just heard, 15 elephants are rampaging through Weatherfield, we need to DO something!"

Audrey: "Eee Ken, yer daft apeth, you've obviously run into Gordon Clegg, 'ee does exaggerate so. It weren't 15 Elephants, it were a Jack Russell".

Ken: "Well why would he say..."

Audrey: "Because 'ees a twat Ken, a great big twat!"
David Marsden
487   Posted 02/04/2012 at 19:44:57

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The market decides the price not Kenwright. So he doesn't know the value. FFS bitter or what!!
Michael Kenrick
493   Posted 02/04/2012 at 20:42:35

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David (#487), If you take that approach, no-one knows the price until a deal is done... but there has to be a valuation in order to set the asking price or establish the offer price.

The claim that this imbecile makes, saying he has no idea of the valuation of his own club, despite being in discussion with between three and nine interested parties a week, is simply ridiculous.
Lee Baines
499   Posted 02/04/2012 at 21:03:22

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Well, Lord knows what'll happen when he does eventually leave...I mean, who the hell will you have to blame for the shite performances if Bill's not there??
John Audsley
502   Posted 02/04/2012 at 21:13:32

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Moyes must be laughing every nite when he gets home, BK is so in love with him, he can do no wrong.

Moyes wasn't comfortable with the constant praise and sadly it just proves to me what a lying idiot BK is.

Anyway... not to worry, he will be on every TV screen possible at Wembley with his boring old stories.

No bigger Blue than he, remember!
Mark Riding
504   Posted 02/04/2012 at 21:38:36

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Eugene #419..
Please forward your advice to our chaiman as I'm sure he may have interested 'Nigerian' parties who seem genuine bidders. They have genuine email addresses and everything...
Eugene Ruane
505   Posted 02/04/2012 at 21:34:02

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Lee, you say..

"Lord knows what'll happen when he does eventually leave".

Well I'm sure there'll still be shite performances, but if we don't get lied to at every fucking turn and we're not treated like idiot dupes, it'll do for me for starters.
James Stewart
536   Posted 03/04/2012 at 01:04:24

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What a complete cretin. Moyes hardly gets a word in while Bill is on. Pretty cringe-worthy. He just strikes me as a clown above all else. Loves the limelight far too much.

As Michael says, it's absolute madness to state he doesn't know what the clubs worth! No wonder he hasn't found a bloody buyer. Set the price and make it public ? like any other business would.
Eric Myles
542   Posted 03/04/2012 at 02:36:05

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Alan #406, does your source in the Club get a bonus for the number of early bird season ticket renewals?
Tony McNulty
619   Posted 03/04/2012 at 17:51:09

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But can we now arrive at a good estimate of the price based on what Bill said/implied?

1) "100 million plus" for players and wages to get to the Champs league - for me that is £150m at least he wants someone to guarantee they will give the manager.

2) "Pay off the overdraft" What is it at the moment? Say £70m

3) "New ground" Not sure how they will propose to do it, lease back? Some PFI-type shite? Groundshare with the Shite? Company venture? It depends who comes in. Bottom line, I think it means he wants someone to guarantee to invest at least £200m in some scheme.

4) Cost of shares owned by BK and the others? I assume that given who else is involved besides Bill (people who will want some profit on their 'investment'), I suspect we are talking £100m.

So that gives a total cost for buying Everton of .... £520m.

And then the person buying, unless he/she is a fan or a loonie or someone with too much money looking for a trainset (The Man City and Chelsea scenarios), will be a businessperson seeking a return. And how would you get a return from this 'investment'?

Lads and lasses. We're wating for fucking Godot. And he never came.
Rory Brennan
622   Posted 03/04/2012 at 18:35:50

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Haha Tony good shout on Waiting for Godot... Let's hope not eh?

I've heard a few times from friends close to the club that we've been far into talks with potential buyers, just like Alan mentioned. The only problem is, it's been going on for ages and never materialised, oh well, onwards and upwards!
John Talbot
627   Posted 03/04/2012 at 18:48:09

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45 comments in 2 days on this thread surprised me.

Maybe Bill has a point most people understand.........
Michael Kenrick
643   Posted 03/04/2012 at 20:13:29

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John (#627) ? How many comments are there supposed to be?

And why does that mean Bill has a point most people understand?

I think Tony (#619) must be close to the truth. If there really have been loads of "interested parties" coming in, some even getting as far as due diligence, but none ever getting past that, combined with Bill's comments about money, it must mean that the amount of money being asked for, either upfront or guaranteed as follow-up, is way more than anyone is prepared to put down... thus far.

And so we carry on... just as we were, with an unsustainable business model that no-one seems interested in acquiring.
Joe Bibb
655   Posted 03/04/2012 at 21:12:11

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It's the first time I have seen Laurel & Hardy in Colour.
John Talbot
656   Posted 03/04/2012 at 20:51:13

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Michael(#643)

Andy (#325) paraphases BK correctly.

Kenwright says 97.5% to 98% of the fans not only understand what they do for the club, but also love what they do for the club.

Tony maybe correct but his view is the minority.

Personally I don't think BK wants to sell until he absolutely has to and even with everything that has gone before selling assets, players and mortgaging he is not they yet.

Also with Moyes onside he doesn't have to as he keep pulling the rabbit out of the hat.

So we should get behind the lads and put the Shite to the sword.
Dan San
688   Posted 04/04/2012 at 01:10:45

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I watched this. Kenwright used the example that there have been plenty of clubs that have had a small amount of finance once a club has been bought out and they haven't really got anywhere, while really traditional clubs have been bought and had £500M spent on them and have done really well.

He said that Everton are deserving of a bigger payday than just £100M spent for the short term and that we're one of a few clubs that can genuinely command such support on a world scale. That we are a great team that don't deserve to go down the same short term channels of a team like, dare I say it, Blackburn when they won the league; would they be able to expect that again soon?

If you're going to have money nowadays, you need to set up the revenue streams to support the wages thereafter, and to do that you need more than just to spend money on the team, I agree with him, and so did Moyesy, that's enough for me.
Eric Myles
707   Posted 04/04/2012 at 07:29:08

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Dan, if Kenwright thinks we're deserving of more investment, maybe he and his friends should put their hands in their pockets and make some investment.

Since they bought the Club, we're just one of those "plenty of clubs that have had a small amount of finance once a club has been bought out and they haven't really got anywhere..."
Jay Shedly
726   Posted 03/04/2012 at 18:54:30

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I thought the interview of both Moyes and Kenwright was most credible and was an honest representation of them and our club.

Some months ago, Robert Elstone took the unprecedented step of providing a full financial breakdown of our club. Our position has not changed since. Kenwright quite simply has not got the money to drive the club forward... a point he openly admits.

I suspect he has had many approaches from groups or consortiums who would like to purchase the club but none who would improve our current situation. I am as frustrated as any but also appreciate the current position. If we attract the right type of investment then the asking price would not and should not be the problem.

I also think we need to remember that it was Kenwright et al who rescued the club from Peter Johnston and the brink of administration. He also had to securitise debts against his own property to ensure financial stability at the club. I agree, like most of you, that he has taken us as far as he can but we should not forget what he and Moyes have done.

I dearly hope we get the right investment shortly but in the meantime it could be far worse than having Kenwright at the helm... (Just ask Wolves supporters!)
Colin Potter
728   Posted 04/04/2012 at 09:47:58

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The thing is, Dan, Moyes will agree to anything that gobshite Kenwright says, especially with the money he's on. The two of them are taking the piss out of us.
Eric Myles
730   Posted 04/04/2012 at 09:55:58

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Jay #726 "Some months ago Robert Elstone took the unprecedented step of providing a full financial breakdown of our club."

So did he say what the £23 million 'other operating costs' is broken down to?

Or are you referring to his 85p in the £ goes to Finch Farm 'financial breakdown'?
Andy Crooks
734   Posted 04/04/2012 at 11:01:29

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it has always seemed to me that Kenwright wants an investor who will allow him to remain as chairman for life allowing him to keep his wonderful toy.
Eugene Ruane
735   Posted 04/04/2012 at 10:22:38

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I said earlier in this thread (237)..

"I've mentioned this before, but with all 'good' con-men, they know they don"t have to convince EVERYONE and they know many will be aware of EXACTLY who and what they are. But they also know that they just need enough to believe them".

Jay Shedly's post (726) is proof to me that Bill succeeds in getting enough.

Jay uses the word 'credible' and indeed Bill WAS credible.

But remember, for a grifter, a flim-flam artist, a con merchant, credible is ABSOLUTELY everything.

If you're going to con people and lie to them for your own ends, no good coming across dishonest, shifty or narky.

The whole POINT is come across as open, a little simple and un-worldly.

To appear naive, unsophisticated, just a punter, in fact...just like you really.

"Hey what do you know? He's just a simple blue like me, why is everyone having a pop?" (Cue Queen's 'Another One Bites The Dust')

In fact if I didn't know that (for a 100% fact!) he has lied to Everton supporters on numerous occasions, I might allow myself to be duped.

(he certainly had me buying his brand of shite for a good few years).

During the interview, when asked did he know the price, there was a classic bit of shifty con-man speak.

"Ha, you might be surprised but no, because you can't..well yes obviously there's an idea of the parameters..um..you know there's here (raises one hand) and here (lowers the other hand) but within that...erm.. no of course not, because the fact is..y'know how can one put a figure.." etc blah.

Well you know the lower hand?

THAT is the figure and it's just a shame there was nobody smart enough to ask "Well if they are the parameters, what are they and what specifically is the lower one?"

James Stewart
743   Posted 04/04/2012 at 11:39:33

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@ Tony Mcnulty

That is a scary breakdown. Probably not far off from the truth which is very sad as no one in their right mind would come in at that price.
Tony McNulty
781   Posted 04/04/2012 at 13:04:54

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James, that is my point exactly.

For me this interview has been phenomenally revealing. Over time, we have had a number of threads on here trying to get someone (especially Bill) to reveal the price. In the light of his words, based on the deductions it is possible to make (as per my post above) I think that he has now let the cat out of the bag.

For me, this interview explains:

(1) Why he may well have been working 24/7 diligently for years without success.

(2) Why (notwithstanding fantasists in Manchester apartments) none of the talks with prospective purchasers has ever gone anywhere.

(3) Why (and I agree he may well have told a few porkies at times) he comes across to so many of us, including the players, as a genuine fan with our club's interests at heart. (I heard him when he came to the ESCLA meeting a couple of years back and he seemed genuine enough - perhaps naive, maybe an underachiever in some elements of what he wanted to do, but certainly a fan who wanted the best for Everton).

The trouble is, the position is as hopeless as I suspected and feared. With the terms as they are, unless we find a billionaire whose mental state could be inferred from his habit of chewing bars of soap, or randomly throwing darts across crowded rooms, we will never be sold, and there will be no investment.

Picture the scene:

Interviewer (following the sale of Everton): "And why did you buy Everton, Mr. Sheik Ratel and Roll?" (Apologies to Eugene Ruane, whose script I have stolen there).

Answer: "Because the voices told me to buy Everton."

For me, the Sky interview has opened a large number of windows on Mr K. and the prevailing situation at our club.
Richard Reeves
795   Posted 04/04/2012 at 14:28:02

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I've noticed that Sky are not so much in the pocket of Kenwright... unlike the BBC who seem to have some kind of love-in. I compare the BBC to Bluekipper ? you'll get a glossy one-sided view until the masses revolt and only then will questions be asked.
Eric Myles
807   Posted 04/04/2012 at 16:06:48

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^James #743, but those numbers are pure fantasy to propogate the myth that there is nobody capable of buying the Club and have been disproven many times before.
Tony McNulty
845   Posted 04/04/2012 at 21:11:50

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It would be strange indeed to try and argue that nobody is capable of buying the club.

But the point here is that if Kenwright's numbers are £520m, which as I have argued above, based on his words, seems likely, then the likelihood of a purchase seems very remote.

Unless ...

(1) there is a super rich fan out there (and if there is, why haven't they put in an appearance in all these years?) or

(2) there is still a potential owner a la Chelsea or Manchester City (and if anyone knows of one then please tell them to get in touch with BK post haste).
Michael Kenrick
862   Posted 04/04/2012 at 22:38:02

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Great discussion .

So, the club is for sale... sort of.

But you need to demonstrate to Bill you are more than 'fit and proper", that you have the long-term interests fully covered financially, and possibly that you will let him rule the roost for the foreseeable...

Interested parties come, hear the spiel, perhaps look at the books, decide it's not for them, and move on.

Not exactly asking too much for his shares... but it's the same effect. No-one has enough money to guarantee Bill that they can fund the legacy he wants to leave behind.

And the search continues... 24/7. Meanwhile, in a parallel universe, Bill the theatre impresario is also working... 24/7.
Ciarán McGlone
865   Posted 04/04/2012 at 23:03:10

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Maybe there should be a fit and proper person test for those people searching for the fit and proper person.

Why does this man think he'd pass it?
Gavin Ramejkis
871   Posted 05/04/2012 at 00:21:23

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It's a great conundrum, Michael, the fit and proper to take control from millionaires who, over the last decade, have proven themselves to be completely unsuitable and not fit or proper to run the club or business.

It's a brass-neck cheek to be honest ? like asking a piss poor parent to vet social services before they take a child on the at-risk register off their hands.
Eric Myles
886   Posted 05/04/2012 at 02:29:01

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But Tony #845, those numbers are pure fantasy, nowhere near that amount is needed.
Dan Brierley
889   Posted 05/04/2012 at 04:28:22

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Eric, you have rubbished the figures twice. So please enlighten us on how much it should cost to buy the shares, put in place revenue streams capable of supporting a title challenging side, and then actually buying the quality of players to support this.
Eric Myles
890   Posted 05/04/2012 at 04:53:44

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Dan, the figures have been shown to be rubbish in many threads in the past.

But lets look at what Tony posted #619

1) "100 million plus" for players and wages to get to the Champs league - for me that is £150m at least he wants someone to guarantee they will give the manager.

You want to reach CL in the first season??? Considering that our most expensive player has cost around £15m you want to effectively replace the whole team in one go???

2) "Pay off the overdraft" What is it at the moment? Say £70m.

The bank forced us to sell Arteta because they were afraid that the overdraft would reach £25m, so the overdraft is going to be more like £15m. Besides that the overdraft is debt of the current board, they should pay it off.

3) "New ground" Not sure how they will propose to do it, lease back? Some PFI-type shite? Groundshare with the Shite? Company venture? It depends who comes in. Bottom line, I think it means he wants someone to guarantee to invest at least £200m in some scheme.

Redevelop Goodison in phases, it can be self funding and cost less than half of that figure in total.

4) Cost of shares owned by BK and the others? I assume that given who else is involved besides Bill (people who will want some profit on their 'investment'), I suspect we are talking £100m.

For shares that they paid £20m for and considering that they have asset stripped the Club and have it in a worse state than when they took over??? They should consider themselves lucky to get their money back.

So that gives a total cost for buying Everton of .... £520m.

Like I said pure fantasy propogated to maintain the illusion that nobody could purchase the Club and we should be happy to maintain the status quo.
Thomas Windsor
927   Posted 05/04/2012 at 10:33:17

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Is Everton a good investment today, the way the economy is going? I am not a lover of Bungalow Bill at all but who would you rather have, him or Blackburn's owners???

To get your money back, you have to be in the Champions League... to do that, you have to shoot down Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, and Chelsea ? not an easy challenge.
Tony McNulty
956   Posted 05/04/2012 at 15:13:57

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Eric,

I recognise you are a regular poster and a sincere Evertonian who probably feels as pissed off as me about what has been going on at the club. Your post reflects one view of the situation and it is certainly an arguable position. But it is a view I now believe is wrong.

Please don?t think I am being patronising, but I do feel that some parts of your response actually illustrate why some of the discussions on here get so emotive and degenerate into pointless slanging matches. Sometimes what people say gets slightly misunderstood or misinterpreted.

Let me be specific, as per the four points, each of which you have in turn taken the time and trouble to address:

1) I did not say in an interview that I wanted to get into the CL in a first season. The man who owns most of the shares and is leading the sale, Bill Kenwright did. My opinion and yours are both irrelevant in such a context.

2) I don?t know what the overdraft is, that is why I used the word ?say.? Overdrafts change from day to day, as we know. If you are correct (and you may well be) and it is only £15m, then that would make my £520 into £465m. I still feel we are waiting for Godot if that is the price.

3) I did not say in an interview that it was imperative we move to a new ground. The man who owns most of the shares and is leading the sale, Bill Kenwright did. My opinion and yours are both irrelevant in such a context.

4) You may feel that the shareholders should consider themselves lucky to get a return of £20m. But what matters is what the men who own the shares decide they will accept. I don?t know what they want, but I suspect that some of them weren?t doing it through altruism or fan worship. I actually do think Bill was. Why? Because I heard his speech at ESCLA; I saw the whites of his eyes; I heard him answer a myriad of questions; I believe he genuinely wants the best for EFC, and his statement at this meeting that there was no point selling to another type like him. His words were something like, ?We now need a billionaire, given the realities of the Premiership. And that isn?t me.?

My posts are an attempt weigh rationally the reality facing our club, given what I am able to infer from the words of one of the principal players in Bill Kenwright. I feel the interview is significant because he has finally, and perhaps inadvertently, come clean about the self-imposed constraints, non-negotiable conditions, under which he is seeking a buyer.

Whether in some deep and dark place, within what some see as the Machiavellian byways and recesses of his mind, he is imposing his conditions so that he will never sell his train set, I don?t know. But what I think I now know, is that unless he changes his mind about these constraints and conditions, then at a price of around £500m (to pay off shareholders, fund ground, repay overdraft, invest in team) we are highly unlikely to be sold.

I actually think Michael?s words (he has used them before) ?the club is for sale, sort of? are quite a succinct summary of the true situation.
Kevin Tully
958   Posted 05/04/2012 at 15:32:26

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Bill Kenwright :

Occupation - Actor

Amount invested in E.F.C. - 0.00

Looking for a buyer 24/7/365 - Yes.

Favourite thing - Everton Football Club.

I believe every word he says.
Eric Myles
963   Posted 05/04/2012 at 15:53:00

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Tony, I know the words you posted were not your own, I was addressing Dan's comment that I rubbished the figures by giving reasons why I rubbished them.

It doesn't matter who said them (or mistakenly believes them) they are easily rubbished as fantasy.

Anyway I'm glad we agree that the major obstacle to the sale of the Club is Kenwright.
Colin Wainwright
009   Posted 05/04/2012 at 20:46:00

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I think, it all comes down to whether you believe a word that comes out of Bill's mouth, or not.

I don't.

You have addressed each point extremely well Tony, yet everything you have said is as much speculation as that of Bill's detractors, if you don't, like me, believe him.

You say you have heard him speak about the club and found him to be genuine. Fair play, he may well be, but unfortumately the many blatant lies told to the fanbase, over the years, mean, for many, the man and his words, can't be trusted.
Colin Wainwright
018   Posted 05/04/2012 at 21:47:31

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Also, Tony @ 956.

''My posts are an attempt weigh rationally the reality facing our club, given what I am able to infer from the words of one of the principal players in Bill Kenwright.''

I cannot, for the life of me, see how any rational appraisal of the situation at Everton, can be achieved from the words of a proven liar.
Tony McNulty
021   Posted 05/04/2012 at 22:01:10

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Hi Colin,

What I mean by ?rational? here is an attempt to find the explanation which best fits the known facts (I do of course admit that some of the ?facts? are in dispute and open to interpretation).

Now there are some people, apparently like yourself, who believe that if Bill said it was raining, they would take a look out of the window themselves before believing it. I don?t believe we hear a lie whenever our Chairman opens his mouth (although some people on here will provide a ready list of alleged porkies). I wonder: are you saying you feel he has no genuine regard for the club, for instance? That when he appears on Sky lauding Everton he is secretly a closet Hartlepool fan? (OK, I am being facetious).

As I was trying to explain in my 781 post, for me the financials implied by the interview could explain why we haven?t been sold so far, and why the prospects for a sale seem remote. For me that is what is especially interesting about the Sky extract, for the light I think it might shed on our present and future situation. That's it really.
Colin Wainwright
023   Posted 05/04/2012 at 22:29:01

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Fair enough Tony. I do believe Bill is an Evertonian btw.

Whether his name is actually Bill............
Eric Myles
033   Posted 06/04/2012 at 01:09:32

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Tony "some people on here will provide a ready list of alleged porkies"

No need for a list of alleged porkies, bare faced outright proven lies will fill a page before we have to even consider 'alleged' lies.

(BTW, I'm also a Hartlepool fan!!)
Tony McNulty
058   Posted 06/04/2012 at 09:29:56

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Regarding allegations and ?porkies?, some people are less concerned than others about the risks associated with the laws of libel. I am not a lawyer but I suspect some of the comments made at times on this site could leave their authors open to legal redress. As it says in the small print at the bottom of the page, we are all legally responsible for what we post.

As for ?Hartlepool? Eric and Colin (aka Lord Lucan) ?

Perhaps this thread is now coming to its natural end. I am slightly surprised others have not contributed. Maybe I am one of the few who considers this interview as of particular significance.

Eventually Bill will have to move on. Like a lot of us, he is playing the second half now, and there are neither substitutes nor extra time in this game. At some point he will presumably change his criteria ? or ?put a little more water in his wine?, as the Swiss say. Until that happens I don?t see any imminent sale on the horizon.

Eric Myles
153   Posted 07/04/2012 at 03:31:32

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Tony, given the board's propensity for issuing legal threats against it's own fanbase I think their silence on the issues that have been raised on this website alone (and others) by KEIOC and BU speaks volumes.

But as I said before it's good that you realise what the obstacle to the sale is, many don't.

(And I'm not joking about Hartlepool.)

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