The Rumour Mill, Season 2011-12

Spurs approach Villas-Boas

15/06/2012 | Comments (31)
With much of the the media rushing to install David Moyes as Tottenham's clear first choice to replace Harry Redknapp, the speculation now is that Daniel Levy has contacted ex-Chelsea boss Andre Villas-Boas about his managerial vacancy.

Elsewhere, with David Moyes now back from his holiday across the Pond, press suggestions from the Telegraph to the Daily Star have it that the Everton manager is interested in the Spurs job but will hold talks with Bill Kenwright over his future at Goodison, with the red-top rag claiming that the Scot would be swayed by an approach from Spurs if he isn't given a transfer kitty by Everton's Board this summer.

Original Source: The Guardian

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Pablo Connelly
050   Posted 15/06/2012 at 07:25:07

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One thing is certain, by the way the media keep changing their stories they have absolutley zero reliable sources and are basically making it up as they go. However, it still remains very possible that Levy could approach our manager; if that happens, I still expect him to go.
Stuart Gray
051   Posted 15/06/2012 at 07:49:01

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Whether you love or hate Moyes, you wouldn't blame him for wanting to leave if he has to sell the players he's bought and isn't given funds to rebuilt.

I know a lot of people want to see the back of Moyes but I'd love to give him a season of not having to sell anyone and the ability to buy a number of decent players. Then we'd see whether he is just a fire-fighting manager or actually had something else about him.

Ged Simpson
068   Posted 15/06/2012 at 09:01:57

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I hope Moyes will be able to use the speculation to persuade someone to come up with a few quid to buy a player or two. That may keep him
Drew O'Neall
084   Posted 15/06/2012 at 09:52:10

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Ged

Where do you think thay money will come from? It won't be BK or any of the other director's pockets, it will be a loan secured against future revenues IE the new TV deal.

Moyes (with the supporter's mandate) are holding the club to ransom once every 3 years or so and further leveraging the club and undermining our future.

As I have stated before, we have to accept mediocrity in terms of league placings for a few years until we clear this debt and get our cost base corrected.

Dan Schweizer
094   Posted 15/06/2012 at 10:44:49

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Drew

As the saying goes "it's sh*t or bust", I feel we have one season before we have a mass walkout of players wanting out.

Heitinga, Fellaini, Baines, Jelavic. I can't see them waiting around for our debt to clear and without all these players, yes that will clear a big chunk of our debt but at the cost of a sharp decline and then we are back to square one.

Colin Evans
100   Posted 15/06/2012 at 11:20:40

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Why would he go from a "safe" (in relative terms) job at EFC to a club which will fire his arse when he only finishes fifth or sixth in the league...

We all know he will ask BK&Board for assurances that he will be allowed to keep his top players and invest some decent funds this summer - will he get that? The first part is possible the second is unlikley.

Personally - I still think he is waiting to take over from AF at Manure. He will use the TH interest to secure his position for another season or two until his real career path becomes available.

Colin Evans
101   Posted 15/06/2012 at 11:27:45

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in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to ManU (as assistant) for a season before he ascends to the throne
Matt Traynor
105   Posted 15/06/2012 at 11:38:39

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Drew #084, that new TV deal doesn't kick in until season 2013-14.
I doubt anyone would lend that far ahead, as it's not guaranteed (albeit unlikely) that Everton would be in the Premier League.

I would expect the parachute payments to be adjusted upwards with the new deal however, but not sure when that would take effect. (Basically the Premier League assume the increase in income will be spent on players, therefore the clubs' cost base will rise).

Denis Richardson
106   Posted 15/06/2012 at 11:36:33

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If Moyes has any 'ambition' he should jump at the chance to manage players like Bale, Modric, Adebayor etc. However, he is under no pressure at Everton and gets paid a ridiculously large pot of cash every year.

If he uses this 'threat' of walking simply to ring another fat contract out of the club (having said that players shold take a 20% pay cut!) then the last shred of respect I have for him as a person will be gone.

Have nothing against the guy personally but would love for him to leave. If he really does get offered the spurs role, it would be very telling if he turned it down given there's not going to be much change in the Everton squad withouth selling someone first.

Stil, I cannot see Spurs going for him, but this is football

John Crook
116   Posted 15/06/2012 at 11:53:48

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Dennis, having players at his disposable such as Bale and Modric is all well and good. But at Spurs I don't think he would have 100% control of affairs there. Levy has the final say on transfers in and out and effectively has the final decision. Moyes has full control on who he decides to pursue on his limited transfer budget.

Fair enough, he doesn't have full control if the banks are putting pressure on the board to sell to reduce the overdraft. But, that probably also applies at Spurs; Levy is also looking to pull in as much money as possible and would not consult the team manager if he wished to sell. For this very reason, I don't believe Moyes will become Spurs manager.

The same applies as when clubs have a 'technical director'. This is why Rogers turned down the Shite job first time around. As he wouldn't have full control of players. But the Shite then sacked off their idea of having a technical director as they realised that most managers want to manage and not have their decisions made by someone upstairs.
Gavin Ramejkis
125   Posted 15/06/2012 at 12:31:44

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Drew, selling the players we have and putting up with mediocrity wont wipe out the debt as thats pretty much nailed on to continue for some time. The outsourcing deals are piss poor in line with our peer group, the squad is tiny already - sell players and you have gaps who fills them? The player sales at the moment and for some time will merely service debt repayment interest and some of Kenshites dodgy payday loans from the BVI - the only way to address the debt is for the business to be ran better and address the basics it isn't at the moment - merchandising, catering, sponsorship deals, non match day activities, investment in infrastructure (the current ground or new one - the latter unlikely so must be the current one), none of these are being addressed by the charlatans on the board so expect no difference besides more departing players year on year.
Brian Harrison
133   Posted 15/06/2012 at 12:41:58

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Gavin Ramejkis

You say that selling players wont wipe out the debt, and any sales will only service the debt. I think that largely depends on how many players you sell and what fees you get for them. I would not want a scenario were we sell our best players, but you could argue if you sell Fellaini,Baines and Heitinga that would probably net near 40 million. I am sure that would make a significant hole in the debt if not wipe it out completely.

Also you could replace these players with Distin for Baines,Rodwell for Fellaini and Duffy to replace Heitinga. I agree it would really weaken the team and I couldnt see Moyes staying if that proposition was put to him. But it would break the yearly cycle of fighting the ongoing debt.

You also suggest that the better business basics would be a better route, but seeing as the merchandising and catering deals have been outsourced, with I presume some years left to run on these contracts, then no immediate joy there. Then you mention investment in infrastructure in other words improving Goodison, seeing as you suggest the sale of 1 player a year will only service the debt where do you think the revenue for improving Goodison will come from?

Ged Simpson
135   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:06:25

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Drew - I was hoping that maybe someone may come up with some cash due to possible crisis.

Not necessarily from the existing Board.

But then again I am not a football and financial expert like some claim to be on TW.

Just an optimist.

Which I will remain.

Sam Hoare
136   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:09:21

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Just a thought but if Moyes does go how would anyone feel about Villas Boas replacing him?

Not sure that he would be interested but maybe the chance to have another go at English football in a less pressure filled environment and to build a new young team based around the likes of Fellaini, Barkley and Rodwell may appeal? I know, no transfer money blah blah but stranger things have happened, I think...

Think given time he could become an excellent manager and replicate what he did at Porto. Either him or that Bob Martin chap....

Tony J Williams
140   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:24:04

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Sam, AVB would probably "expect" to be employed at a bigger club to come back to the Premier League.

He would see us as a step down and a lose/lose situation. If he gets us competing, the papers will refer to past seasons and say we had the squad all along so he is doing nothing new and if he fails the papers will refer to past seasons and say that he should have been at least achieving 6th or 7th.

Sam Hoare
141   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:32:27

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I think you're almost certainly right Tony. An intriguing longshot nonetheless...
Tony J Williams
142   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:34:58

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For entertainment value in the interviews, let's get Holloway in.
Jack Okell
144   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:48:53

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I've heard this banded round TW before, but don't have much understanding. So Kenwright doesn't use any of his own money (and the other board memebers)? What does he say when people tackle him on this??
Drew O'Neall
146   Posted 15/06/2012 at 13:42:13

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Gavin, Brian,

I think Gavin's point is that we aren't able to pay off the debts early anyway, at least without huge penalties and so we are stuck paying off the interest.

What always seems to be forgotten though is the cost of wages vs transfer fees - CAPEX vs OPEX. If we sold off a few of our tier 1 stars we could conceivably clear 12m a year off our operating costs without fear of becoming relegation fodder.

Reinvested wisely on players with lower wage demands and we could remain static as 'best of the rest' however the new lower operating cost base would mean we didn't make an operating loss each year..

Regardless of what the club PR puts out, this IS our model but once every three years or so Moysey gets to dig his heels in and ask for a bit of cash and a cushy contract to keep him in the holding pattern til SAF snuffs it!

Michael Kenrick
150   Posted 15/06/2012 at 14:03:23

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Jack (#144),

It's not the Everton way for the Directors or major shareholders to dip into their own pockets to fund operations.

There seems to be an expectation amongst some fans, based on Abramovich and other sugar-daddies funding revolutions at Chelsea, Man City and the like but the norm at Everton is that the operational side should be self-funding. (... or heavily leveraged and bleeding slowly)

As to the second part... "I'm bored of your question" would be the expected response. In this case, I think it's reasonable: how would you feel justifying what you spend your money on?

Jack Okell
151   Posted 15/06/2012 at 14:14:14

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Michael (150)

Thanks for clearing that up. I can't help but feel like they should be making some sort of financial contribution.

I saw a Sky Sports interview with BK + DM. I'm sure I remember BK saying every penny he has goes into this club, and Moyes giving a nod of agreement.

Matt Traynor
152   Posted 15/06/2012 at 14:26:03

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As an addendum to MK #150, contrary to popular belief, Sir John Moores didn't bankroll Everton. He did underwrite transfers, but the club under his tenure was developed (new infrastructure, better training facilities etc.) so it was self-sustaining, and his guarantees were never needed.
Ged Simpson
154   Posted 15/06/2012 at 14:36:35

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In the end I bet he stays anyway. But who really knows ?

I think it may be only Celtic in a few years or Man utd that can move him

Richard Dodd
197   Posted 15/06/2012 at 19:36:35

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Rest easy; Davey WILL leave Everton.... but it will be in a year`s time and then for Man United! Gary Neville is likely to go with him although BK will try to persuade him to stay here as manager.
Gavin Ramejkis
230   Posted 15/06/2012 at 23:24:22

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Matt #152 if anyone watches The Golden Vision, they'll see Sir John explaining how the infrastructure investment paid ? basically more bums on seats... and giving the fans the chance to come to the game made him money.
Gavin Ramejkis
231   Posted 15/06/2012 at 23:26:16

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Brian, are you serious about replacing Baines with Distin? Distin is 34 years old, he's not got that much longer at the club himself and then who replaces him? The sale of Baines, Fellaini and Heitinga and then who replaces them and how much does that cost if you include wages and agents fees?

It's very easy this miraculous 'sell and wipe out the debt' fallacy saying you'd get X million for this player and Y million for another but in business the buyer will only pay what they think a player is worth and in a position of power ? i.e. knowing the seller is in the shit and reliant on the funds ? they will have investigated their target's financial situation and play hardball to gain the best value for money.

The squad listed for last season contained players who hadn't even kicked a ball in the league and some out on loan, sell first team players as they could command the most money and you're left with kids or gaps, repeat until you haven't got anything but academy players and then what?

BK has multiple mortgages on GP which he is in no position to pay off; Bellefield has gone as has the money from it; Finch Farm is a long term disproportionate debt; the EPL membership for the next few years is loaned against, the short term BVI loans smack of trouble with operating costs ? short term cash flow issues are always worrying in business and even more so when they are repeated year after year, the squad is the smallest in the EPL but all BK has left to hock, so the sale of three of the first team wouldn't kill the debt but merely provide a stay of execution.

What I have said about infrastructure investment in GP remains as I have said time after time, the board invest and look for a deserved return on their investment or seek external business partners to do so, I dont agree with the board looking for a return on their shares as they have spent fuck all at the club ? quit literally not a single penny, they bought shares and those funds exchanged hands with the previous shareholders.

Drew, the way finance is structured can be made to heavily penalise an early exit from it, the Bear Stearns loan being the prime example where Everton lumbered themselves with long-term debt for many years and more to come...

Mark Riding
232   Posted 15/06/2012 at 23:36:02

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Gavin #230 ? Thank You! Bums on seats is what we need to do.

As soon as the fixtures come out in the next few days ? sell the tickets. Put all the games on sale, I don't care for all the 'tickets will go on general sale' bollocks. Season ticket holders will have re-newed already. Sell out the games and create a demand. "Another sell out at Goodison Park for the visit of Wigan!" Sounds pretty good, doesn't it!

Sell the 'less attractive' games out cheaper, people will always want the 'big' games early if they can buy them and will pay extra... I realise, TV may change the odd schedule (have refund policy / alternative games available)... Just sell out the home games!
Andy Crooks
234   Posted 16/06/2012 at 00:38:45

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Here's a thing, I'd like Moyes to get the Spurs job but if he takes it I'l feel betrayed.
Gary Henderson
243   Posted 16/06/2012 at 07:41:15

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I wonder if Moyes, when taking the Spurs job, shows the same sort of love to Everton that Rodgers did to Swansea & says he won't be coming back for our players? My bet is there will be a bid lodged for Fellaini within hours of him being in the chair.
Thomas Windsor
289   Posted 16/06/2012 at 13:50:57

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Please take the Spurs job, Moyes, if offered it; time for a change!
Colin Potter
298   Posted 16/06/2012 at 14:51:02

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He won't be offered it Thomas !

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