Congratulations to Wigan!

Wigan Athletic, a starting XI assembled by Roberto Martinez for the princely sum of £11M, and who knocked Everton out in March, outplayed Moneybags City in an absorbing FA Cup Final performance, scoring the winning goal in added time after Zabaleta had been sent off. What's that about knives to a gunfight???

Callum McManaman, who was released from the Everton Academy age 16, put in a fantastic performance for Wigan as Man of the Match, while Jack Rodwell came on for Man City as a second-half sub and nearly scored with a header.

That honour fell to substitute Ben Watson in a dramatic added-time finale with extra time looming; hepulled off an almost identical replica of Matt Jackson's brilliant headed goal from a corner to set Everton on their way to beating Spurs in that memorable FA Cup Semi-Final at Elland Road in 1995.

It was great to see the underdogs win today, and re-establish just a little of the quality and 'romance' (I hate that word in this context!) of the FA Cup that many had thought was becoming devalued in recent years. And it was a fantastic game too!

Michael Kenrick     Posted 11/05/2013

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Reader Comments

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Vince Hindson
460 Posted 11/05/2013 at 17:30:33
Okay I'll go first. Quite a good match so far. Is he really going to be our manager?
Nick Entwistle
462 Posted 11/05/2013 at 17:32:03
I don't understand... Wigan have this game plan where by attacking it takes all pressure off the defence.
Paul Corbett
486 Posted 11/05/2013 at 17:50:02
Love how Wigan try to pass and not launch it forward. Just imagine if we could do that
Sandra Williams
495 Posted 11/05/2013 at 17:45:49
Well, if Moyes 'helps' to get Martinez recruited to be our next Manager he'll soon teach him the 'Everton Way' before he heads down the M62, with Felli and Baines in the back seat. Which incidentally, surely this would all be a conflict of interests? Our Ex-manager advising Kenwright who he should employ as our NEW manager?
Ross Edwards
499 Posted 11/05/2013 at 17:58:19
Moyes getting involved is a bit like leaving a pub and telling the next person what they're drinking. It's got nothing to do with him.
Eugene Ruane
503 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:00:40
If they go down, I wouldn't mind Macmanamanamanamanman.

(I DO know how to spell it, I just don't know when to stop)

Jack Wilkinson
514 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:11:02
Ye, I'm a fan of Moyes' but there's no reason to ask him to help look for our next manager. Fergie was only asked to do so because he's staying on at the club in some capacity. Moyes' isn't retiring, he's going to United and will be playing us next season - how could we even completely trust his decision?
Drew Shortis
530 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:20:17
Does anyone truly believe Moyes last action would be to tell BK that Mick McCarthy (or some such) would be the ideal candidate just to hobble Everton? I have no doubt in my mind that he would want to see the good work he has done be continued by a suitable successor. Next you'll be telling us DM in cahoots with Bush over 9/11!
Ian Bennett
534 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:28:16
Drew - the mirror claims he has supported Martinez and Malky M.
Dennis Stevens
535 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:28:17
I've never seen them together, Drew. How do we know it's not one & the same person?
Jackie Barry
546 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:40:56
I wouldn't mind that Callum McManaman, looks like a very good player.
Charles Barrow
551 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:45:34
If Moyes is helping Kenwright recruit a new manager I hope he realises we need some one who selects the players who are in form; doesn't play players out of position; doesn't send young players out into the wilderness if they disagree with him; who doesn't makes subs to change things round 3 minutes before the end of a game; who doesn't hang onto a one nil lead after 20 minutes and ends up losing the game; who doesn't persist in selecting players who are past their best; who doesn't look like a rabbit in headlights when playing against Liverpool or in another big game; and who doesn't refuse to take responsibility (the wigan game - 'just one of those days!) or take advice!
Jackie Barry
552 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:47:44
Why on earth did we release Callum McManaman. Do we really know how to nurture players?
Ross Edwards
556 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:53:39
Two words Jackie: David Moyes.
Jackie Barry
557 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:54:16
This is the thing how can these players ever become anything if they never get given the chance?
Ross Edwards
560 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:57:11
Well, now Moyes has gone we can see some of the youngsters getting a chance.
Jackie Barry
561 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:59:02
Mcmanaman is class, there is no doubt about it. Zabaletta has just been sent off.
Eugene Ruane
562 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:55:10
City down to 10, just got a little easier for Wigan.

Agree Jackie re Macmanaman - he looks a more than decent player.

By the way, I'm actually hoping City win and Whelan slips and breaks his leg again

(Thatcher loving twat)

Jackie Barry
566 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:01:07
There is no way we could get him back now though, his value will sky rocket and the top 4 will be in for him. What the betting that Davie boy goes for him now he's at Man U, how ironic would that be?
Ross Edwards
568 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:03:39
Davie can sign Naismith if he wants...
Jackie Barry
574 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:08:20
We don't have money that's why we don't win things. Swansea and Wigan don't have money but they could be both winning trophies this season.
James Carlisle
588 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:10:50
Fantastic from Wigan!

Are you watching, Moyes, because that is how you play at Wembley and with an even worse team. Moyes's 11 years at us suddenly look a whole lot worse.

Unfortunately I think our chances of getting Martinez just got slimmer.

Drew Shortis
595 Posted 11/05/2013 at 18:26:17
Wow. Great game. Real Roy of the Rovers stuff! So glad for Wigan and especially Whelan. I didn't think it was right for the guy interviewing Martinez to ask him about his future at such a time and I'm glad Martinez ignored the question. It's great to see that passion and belief can still triumph over money!
Phil Bellis
597 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:16:22
James, according to some, he's rubbish, though!!
The big one still to play for - good luck to them; rather they stayed up than "different league" Pardew's lot
Ross Edwards
600 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:19:42
City will always be a nothing club. Played off the pitch by Wigan.
Mancini played Moyes type football, and lost. Adventurous attack always triumphs over boring cautious football and that is why Martinez should be at the Old Lady next season.
Brent Stephens
608 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:21:36
I guess MU will tear up that contract now, seeing DM couldn't do as well as Martinez, and offer it to Roberto. Well, maybe not. But well done Roberto.
Brian Waring
619 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:26:40
Moyes should have got off right away to the Mancs, that way Martinez wouldn't have become another manager who has won something in Moyes' 11 yrs of winning nothing.
Mike Burgess
620 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:28:47
I wonder if we (Everton) will get Martinez now he's a more successfull manager than Moyes !!
Paul Andrews
623 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:29:45
We should offer Martinez the job.
He has a better CV than the last manager
Kevin Hudson
625 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:30:59
Congratulations indeed to Wigan.

Gutted to think it could have been us.

Charles Barrow
627 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:30:15
I agree - Martinez had the balls to play attacking football in the big games - Moyes was 'Mr Cautious' and he won nothing. Yes he bought stability to the club - but that is all he bought. The way the media go on you'd think we've lost the 2nd greatest manager in the history of the game, Joke!
Eugene Ruane
630 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:33:04
Agree Phil, an incredible result.

They played with incredible belief and without fear.

I imagine the devotees of L.Ron Moyes are praying Wigan go down otherwise another 'argument' vanishes

(ie: "look at Portsmouth, Birmingham, blah..")

Strange to think Martinez and Laudrup have won more than the manager of Manchester United.

Drew Shortis
631 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:31:35
Hopefully Wigan will use this massive confidence boost and beat the drop. Would be very concerned now as a Newcastle/Norwich/Sunderland fan! The down side of that scenario for us may well be that we miss out on a very good manager in Martinez as he would no doubt stay on and lead them in Europe next year. Good luck to him whatever he chooses to do!
Paul Andrews
632 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:34:57
A lot of people on here use the excuse that Moyes could not win anything without money.

Disproved again.

Twice in one season.

Adolf Ng
633 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:33:38
Kevin, it would not be us even if we get into the final because Moyes would play hoofball and bottle the game ...
Tony Twist
639 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:32:26
Very well done Wigan and very well done Martinez. Are you watching David Moyes, that's the way to do it. What a breath of fresh air that match today was.

Come on you Blues – no respect for the Hammers nothing less than a convincing win for the blues and us long suffering supporters.

Colin Glassar
642 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:38:52
Congratulations to our new manager, seρor Roberto Martinez.
Paul Hughes
647 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:39:43
Rodwell may have nearly scored, but he lost his man for the goal. Excellent business for us.
Richard Harris
648 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:37:55
Well, Wigan may still get relegated but Roberto Martinez has now done something that David Moyes couldn't do at Everton !! But of course we all know that it takes money to be successful. Wigan and Swansea have Olympic size swimming pools of money.....
Wayne McNee
650 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:33:10
I'm hoping the way Martinez avoided the "are you staying?" Question. (Which was a hilarious ramble of nothing that made the reporter forget the question.) Is an indication of him at least thinking about it? That type of footy with our better players & future additions? I'll have a bit of that!
Chris James
651 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:33:26
Sigh.

Great play by Wigan and brave attacking tactics from Martinez which paid off against a technically better side who underestimated the challenge and couldn't then raise themselves to it (sound familiar?)

Wigan definitely deserved it on the day and have proved that on a given day they can raise their game to beat anyone, but for all those spouting the usual nonsense about Moyes (incidentally lads he's actually going now so you can knock it off), perhaps you'd like to take a quick glance at the league table.

That's right, the one that shows we're 6th and have (I believe unfairly) fallen just short of the European slots, whilst Wigan are in the bottom 3 and in danger of falling short of Premier League football next year. Over the season with a broadly similar budget, Moyes has proven himself to be a far more capable manager. Which may be why the biggest club in the world deem him (above the likes of Mourinho) worthy of a 6 year contract to lead their team. Then again maybe Martinez was also on the shortlist but said no?

Ajay Gopal
652 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:41:41
I look at Wigan's fantastic FA Cup victory with mixed feelings - how easily it could have been us lifting the trophy, but would Moyes have gone for it like Martinez did? I am not sure. With this win, Martinez' stock will be sky (!) high and would he consider the Everton move or would he wait for a bigger (Spanish/Italian/English) club to come for him? Even before the FA Cup, I had fervently hoped that Martinez would be our next manager - but now, I think we will be incredibly lucky to land him.
Paul Andrews
653 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:42:49
Wayne,

Anto Byrne gave Moyes brand of football a perfect description "joined-up stuff at walking pace".

What you just watched was a far better style of football. Far better suited to a team higher up the table and knocking on the door.

In my opinion, Martinez would take what we have got and improve it.

Paul Ferry
657 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:43:10
A lovely story, I'm chuffed to bits for Whelan and the rest. Wonderful. Now teary Billy go get the 4ms

Martinez - Mcarthy - Maloney - and Macca

Patrick Murphy
658 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:42:17
Wigan deserved to win and it's a good thing for the whole of English Football, apparently we were the last underdogs to win the FA Cup in 1995. It doesn't matter how much money you're paid if you don't apply yourself properly and take a chance here and there you won't win big games.

Chris Jones [Burton]
660 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:42:49
True Richard (#648) but they might yet become the first side ever to win the FA Cup AND be relegated in the same season. Not an achievement I'd like Everton to emulate.

That said, well done Wigan.

Paul Ferry
661 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:46:01
But would Moyes have gone for it like Martinez did?

NO!!!

Paul Andrews
663 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:45:39
Chris James,

I was reading your post but had to stop when you said "over the season with a broadly similar budget" as I pissed myself laughing

Dennis Stevens
666 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:42:10
My impression is that League position being as high as possible & consistently so was Moyes' priority. that's what got him his manager of the year awards & quite possibly into the hot-seat at Old Trafford. A cup or two would have been nice too but I don't think it was ever a priority. Not that any of that matters any more.
Colin Glassar
669 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:45:27
Chris James, Moyes would have parked the bus and you know it. The shambolic performance against Chelsea in the final, the lying down and rolling over against the rs, being torn apart by martinez's Wigan etc.....he blew it in every crucial game. Yes we were consistent but he could never take is over the threshold.

P.S. Richard Harris, the Wigan team which started today cost £11m. Less than Fellaini FYI.

Tony Twist
670 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:46:12
Well done Wigan. We probably can't afford Martinez now!

God help us if Moyes is advising BK on the next manager, it will be dire football for years to come.

Eugene Ruane
671 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:45:34
Chris - maybe we could have an open top bus parade and all the players could hold up a big number 6

Sigh indeed.

Paul Ferry
672 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:52:39
Thank God

Lennon wants 'more Celtic years

Brian Waring
673 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:51:23
Colin, stop it now! you should know better, fact's like that about money only matter when it's about Moyes.
Chris James
674 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:51:26
So Paul, your contention is that Moyes had a fortune at his disposal then? Sorry, must have missed that.
Paul Andrews
676 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:55:30
Chris,
Dont worry too much you miss quite a lot

I just pissed myself again
Where did I say that

Brian Waring
677 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:55:30
Chris, obviously Moyes hasn't had a fortune at his disposal, but as Colin pointed out, if true, the Wigan team that started today cost £11m, not too shabby if you were to compare it to our starting 11 tomorrow, would imagine we have a vastly higher wage bill as well.
Joseph Foster
678 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:58:13
Hard to believe 11 million for the wigan team
Brent Stephens
679 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:55:59
Great result by Wigan / Martinez.

Serious question, now. Why does a team do so well in a cup and also be on the brink of relegation? Not just this example but other times it's happened as well. Fortune plays a part. But you must also think that Martinez has more than fortune about him. And yet, if he has, then why so poor in the league. I honestly don't know the answer.

Brin Williams
680 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:54:05
So that's it then!

There's no way Roberto Martinez is going to give up European Football in exchange for managing a club that his chairman says is not good enough!!

Phew - we nearly ended up with him.

Peter Laing
683 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:59:17
Congratulations Wigan, game to Goodison took the game to us and put City and Mancini on their arse ! Callum McManaman sheer class today
Joseph Foster
684 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:02:05
Moyse will be telling BK, "That fucker Martinez smiles too much; it looks like he enjoys his job — give him a miss."
Jeremy Benson
685 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:02:10
Congrats to Wigan. Its a good story, and I'm glad Whelan has won it, he deserves it I think.

Reflecting on it, I don't think we would have beaten city in the final. But that doesn't mean I want martinez as a manager (or would rather have him more than Moyes or someone else). My own feeling is that Martinez is a bit boom or bust (bit like Harry). I'd rather stay in the premier league than win the cup and go down.

But well done all the same.

Chris James
686 Posted 11/05/2013 at 19:54:41
Eugene.

I wonder if the open top bus for Wigan will have 'FA Cup winners 2013, Championship promotion hopefuls 2014' daubed on the side?

The FA Cup, like any single-leg knockout cup is far more of a lottery than the league. Wigan had an exceptionally easy route to the final - Bournemouth, Macclesfield, Huddersfield and Millwall and the 2 big teams they played were both well under par.
If our players had turned up against Wigan then we could have been in the final and if City had shown any real desire or cohesion they could have steamrollered the Latics, to be honest they didn't look like they were bothered.


The league is a far better indication of quality and achievement as it's consistent and balances out the outlier results such as todays. Under those conditions Martinez's all out attack policy hasn't proved so fruitful.

Ultimately I'm not sure what all this bitterness is supposed to achieved apart from displaying a lack of perspective and class, Moyes was with us for 11 years, he undisputedly improved the playing side and raised the expectations of the fans so that we're totally frustrated to be outside CL/Europa places. This year he even had us playing good attacking football for much of it (although I imagine it's his fault that Jelavic turned shit and our forward line couldn't put away the chances).

Phil Sammon
687 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:05:27
Martinez was asked on several occasions - and very directly about his future at Wigan or elsewhere after the game.

He desperately tried to avoid the question. He wants to move on in my opinion.

Joseph Foster
689 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:08:18
I agree phil
David Greenwood
690 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:09:59
I thought that as well Phil
Chris James
691 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:06:19
Sorry to hear about your little accident Paul, although I understand that wetting yourself can be quite common for 10 year olds, the incredibly drunk or senile men. Haven't quite worked out which category to file you under yet mind.
Brian Waring
692 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:09:24
You are fucking joking right Chris?
Andrew Presly
693 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:06:48
Jeremy - we're not Wigan, Charlton, Man City or anyone of that ilk. we wouldn't win a cup and go down. We just wouldn't win the cup. Really hate it when people bring Premiership survival into conversations involving Everton. So depressing.

Embarrassing for Moyes to see that today, surely? I hope he feels embarrassed. That's how you approach a big game vs bigger spenders. No fear and no regrets.

Jackie Barry
694 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:06:56
In the end history only shows the winner not the nearly maybe's
Peter Cummings
695 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:05:58
Hard to beleive that a red hot rugby league town like Wigan have just won the biggest cup in football. They put us to the sword at Goodison and fully deserved it but today's performance was sheer magic. They outclassed City in every department from start to finish, were denied two clear pens and their goal was fantastic, as was the whole team. Very Well Done Latics, let's hope you're still in the Premier League next season.
Paul Andrews
696 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:18:15
Chris,

I`ll give you a clue.
It`s 2 out of 3

Colin Glassar
697 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:14:56
In the end, Jackie it will show Martinez won an FA Cup Final in 4 years and, in 11 years Moyes won sweet FA!!
Peter Laing
699 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:16:33
Roberto Mancini, Joleon Lescott, Carlos Tevez, Gareth Barry, Denis Tuart, Noel and Liam Gallagher, Mosside, City of Manchester your boys have just had their arses kicked !
Dennis Stevens
701 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:22:14
That's not entirely fair, Colin. Moyes did win things. Unfortunately, Everton did not.
Steve Pugh
702 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:09:18
I think that some of it comes down to the difference between more successful and better. Is a more successful manager necessarily a better manager? We all know that Rafa has a habit of winning trophies when he first arrives at clubs and then drags them down. Is he a better manager than his peers or just more successful? If Moyes wins some trophies in the next couple of years will he suddenly become a better manager, or just more successful?
Chris Corn
703 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:18:27
Chris , you make some good points but contradict yourself with the 'exceptionally easy route' remark. They played us at home in the quarter and City in the final. It's a bit unfair to write it off as easy.

The irony is, if all Moyesy has to show for next season is the FA or Carling Cup, he will be deemed a failure. I for one, wish him no luck at all as he is now against us.

James Martin
704 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:13:07
Thought this site only posted Everton news? Unless Martinez has suddenly become our manager what's this got to do with us?

Congratulations to Wigan but equally there's no need to go overboard. We know Martinez is good in certain big games, that doesn't mean that we need to go out and suddenly buy Wigan's manager and all of their players – there is a reason why they will probably be relegated soon. For all WIgan's attacking they didn't get many chances on target and the goal only came from a corner despite all their good play. If Tevez had finished from 5 yards like Lampard had from 25 then Martinez's final may well have ended up the same as Moyes's despite all his positive intentions. He also had the luck of having a fully fit team to choose from.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Wigan, it was a great performance which leaves you scratching your head over their league position. I just don't see why every single time any manager gets a good win anywhere it's used as a stick to beat a man who isn't even our manager anymore!

As for the "Knives to a Gunfight" remark Moyes probably had the best record of any Premier League manager against the new money City. Well done to Martinez he's a nice guy and can get his team up for the big occasion. When he wakes up after the last game of the season though he may well be the manager of a Championship club whereas Mr 'knife to a gunfight' Moyes will be the manager of Britain's top club.

Patrick Murphy
705 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:26:23
If he stays at Wigan his first game of next season will be at Wembley against David Moyes' Man U in the Charity Shield, that should be interesting.
David Greenwood
706 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:27:14
James, he didn't have a fully fit squad to choose from, three first choice centre backs unavailable. Having said that one of them was Gary Caldwell so that was a bonus for them...
Brian Waring
707 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:27:02
It is an Everton site James, but why not talk about Wigan and Martinez? after all, we have been talking about the Man U manager over the last few days.
Brian Waring
709 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:29:49
Also James, talk about bitter.
Paul Andrews
710 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:28:28
James,

you got a bit upset there about a report on another club on ToffeeWeb.
Then went on to write an essay (about another club)

Paul Ferry
711 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:26:57
James - 704 - Thought this site only posted Everton news? Unless Martinez has suddenly become our manager what's this got to do with us?

So why post 272 words then about Wigan

Colin Glassar
713 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:32:41
James, he might be our next manager so we have every right to talk about HIM and HIS current team.
Peter Laing
714 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:33:40
McManaman displayed guile, desire and tenacity today, with his explosive pace he had Clichy and the City back four on toast today, if Martinez is recruited Macca has to come with him.
Trevor Thompson
715 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:32:41
Just shows what can happen when team has no fear. Moyes always bottled it when it mattered. We always played not to get beat rather than to win. I'm happy for Wigan but a little of me thinks if only we had some balls. Maybe Martinez is the man for the job after all.
Simon Harris
716 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:20:26
Andrew Presly, don't kid yourself - the premiership is a tough unforgiving league, and we have flirted with relegation too many times for my liking, (even after finishing 4th in a preceding season) until Moyes built a team that has rightly raised expectations.

I'm sure Leeds, Wednesday & Forest fans thought the same as you - first and foremost premiership survival is imperative for the majority of clubs without oodles of dosh.

Michael Kenrick
717 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:28:58
James (#704), how many times do we have to go over this stuff on here?

"I just don't see why every single time any manager gets a good win anywhere it's used as a stick to beat a man who isn't even our manager anymore!"

No-one can help you if can't see some significance in "plucky little Wigan" beating Moneybags City to win the FA Cup Final — a comparable situation to Moyes's abject failure under rather similar circumstances against Chelsea some years ago.

Then there is the fact that it was Manchester City they beat. The team Everton were visiting when the Everton manager made that utter gutless and pathetically defeatist "knife to a gunfight" remark, bemoaning lack of resources, with a far more expensively assembled squad than Martinez had today.

And finally, David Moyes is still the Everton manager, not the Man Utd manager. He does not assume that role until 1 July 2013.

You can try to play it down all you like, because it flies in the face of a lot of the rational analysis you've posted on here. I doubt that the synergy of the above will be very easily forgotten by too many Evertonians.

Peter Laing
718 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:35:53
All we ave heard about is Moyes to Man Utd for the past four Days and James has a pop at those talking up a potential replacement, after tomorrow James Moyes is history.
Paul Andrews
719 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:37:59
Chris James 691,

Catch up with you later,just off to do my homework. Hic, shorry

Jeremy Benson
720 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:31:34
Andrew,

if you read my post again - I never said we were like Wigan, Charlton, Man City or anyone of that ilk. I didn't say we would win a cup and go down, I was commenting about martinez/wigans situation. I said we just wouldn't win the cup.

So I'm sorry you've felt depressed - for no reason.

Chris Corn
721 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:35:27
James, as you say Moyes is no longer our manager, therefore any debate regarding a likely candidate is valid isn't it?
Richard Harris
722 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:29:57
Chris James "Wigan had an exceptionally easy route to the final - Bournemouth, Macclesfield, Huddersfield and Millwall and the 2 big teams they played were both well under par".

And our route to getting to the final (which if we had beaten Wigan would have been a given victory as we have the measure of Man City !) was so much harder !
If I recall correctly it was Leyton Orient, Cheltenham Town and it took a replay against Oldham Athletic (after conceding a last gasp goal in the 1st game) to get an 'easy' home tie against Wigan, Historical (or hysterical) revisionism at its finest :0) Still at least we can say that we were beaten by the team that went on to win the cup....

Patrick Murphy
724 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:41:17
Richard it was Cheltenham, Bolton, Oldham and Wigan we played
James Martin
725 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:32:02
I just don't understand why every story from now on about whoever it is has to somehow turn into a pop at Moyes (a tone for the thread initiated by the OP). He's gone, why do we constantly still have to try and prove to people that he was rubbish through what other people are doing?

Will there be a story on here when Wigan are relegated extolling the virtues of the good league form of our previous manager? Of course there won't be, its a non story. Just like Wigan winning the cup is a non story – what does it have to do with Everton? I could half understand if the tone of this thread was 'look what our potential new manager has been getting up to'.....even if it would be jumping the gun a bit, however it seems that apart from being happy for Martinez or indeed anyone expressing their desire to see him here, he's just being used as a stick to beat Moyes with. What's the point of it - he's not even our manager anymore. If it carries on all that will happen is that as soon as Moyes wins an away game at a big team with Man Utd the other side will be on here going through the exact same thing. Moyes is gone now so its time to stop having this stupid debate. If you're made up Wigan have won a cup because Martinez could be coming here as a trophy winner then great. If you're made up that Martinez won because somehow it puts Moyes in a bad light then I'm not really the bitter one am I?

Why would I be bitter about Wigan? In what way do they affect anything? I'd much rather they won with a decent man like Martinez than City. More importantly I want the right man to take Everton forward and was just pointing out that there's something wrong in suggesting taking half the team and a manager from a team that is probably going to be relegated.

David Chait
727 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:44:55
Wigan lost both Premier League games to Man city this season. We won one and drew one. Don't know what the point is... I just really felt we would have taken Man City today... It should have been us this year once we got to the QF.
James Stewart
728 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:45:00
What a player McManaman is. He tore City apart. He needs to come home what idiot released him!?
Robbie Muldoon
730 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:47:48
Tony Marsh has been touting Martinez as a maanager for some time now, he knows his stuff him.
Brian Waring
731 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:48:53
Think it was the Man U manager who released him James.
Paul Gallagher
736 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:51:30
Perhaps Man Utd got the wrong manager.
Richard Harris
737 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:48:33
Patrick - thanks for the correction - getting my cup games muddled up :0) I'd tried to erase the Leeds debacle and I have vague recollections of Bolton although I'm still not sure how I got home from that one - age and various substances addle my brain sometimes.....
Kevin Elliott
739 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:48:39
Martinez anyone...
What a joy to behold: defenders actually playing the ball forward. No hoofball.
Paul Andrews
740 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:59:32
James Martin,

who do you consider to be "the right man " ?

Paul Gallagher
741 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:57:02
I can see Martinez's stock rising, he maybe influenced by Dave Whelan, who believes that his manager can do better than us.He will seek new pastures other than us. I would have Martinez, If he placed more emphasis on keeping clean sheets.
Brian Waring
743 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:03:32
You could put Weir/Stubbs as assistant Paul to work on the defensive side.
Michael Kenrick
749 Posted 11/05/2013 at 20:59:21
James (#725),

Moyes is not 'gone'. He's still the Everton manager. There are two games left in which I believe most of us hope he will secure a 6th place finish before he leaves Everton to assume his new role as Man Utd manager on 1 July 2013.

I've explained the contrasts and links to today's momentus result which have a significant bearing on the Moyes area — another linkage is Callum McManaman, once of the Everton Academy (you know... the place where Everton were supposed to be breeding future players for the club) but who was released on Moyes's watch back in 2007. The lad was fantastic: Man of the Match.

There's been an awful lot written this week about Moyes's successes at Everton; perhaps you need to look at this thread as a perfect opportunity to tweak the balance a litlle bit back toward the middle, where his abject failings as Everton manager are also not forgotten.

James Martin
750 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:02:15
I'm not sure Paul Andrews. I'm just not sure on Martinez. Today was impressive but his Premier League performance has not been in my opinion. Do I think he would get us into the Champions League next year? No. That is all I care about. I think we have a real opportunity for someone to build on the good work Moyes has done and get us into those hallowed spaces and the club into a position that would either attract investment or solve its own economic woes through regular Champions League participation. I believe that would breed the success in terms of trophies that we all want to see. I consider this to be the sustainable route forward for Everton.

I do not believe that hiring a manager just because he has shown he can win a trophy or win at Anfield is the way to go if the league form isn't there to match it. Those one-off days will be great but in reality, if Martinez stayed at Wigan, for example, or Laudrup at Swansea, they could both be waiting years for another go at it. It would just be one glorious day in the sun as it would be if we won at the big away grounds.

I feel we can get more of those days though on a continuous basis if we establish ourselves in that upper band. Nothing wrong of course with picking up a few on the way (hopefully!), but for me the main concern has to be getting into those top 4 spots. For me, I just don't think Martinez would be able to do that based on the league performance he's shown at WIgan so would not be my first choice for the job (even though I don't really know who is!). Just my opinion though.

Paul Ferry
751 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:07:43
725 and was just pointing out that there's something wrong in suggesting taking half the team and a manager from a team that is probably going to be relegated.

WHY?

and don't exaggerate - three names have been mentioned. Hmmm 11 in the line-up plus 5 on bench - 3/16, not half really is it?

Michael Kenrick
753 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:12:41
Good catch, Paul. The pro-Moyes mob are very good at that. But they won't take kindly to you pointing it out!
Brian Waring
754 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:12:07
James, in all reality Moyes has left us with an ageing squad, so any manager coming in will probably have to start afresh.
Kunal Desai
755 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:05:49
This season just shows you don't need millions to win a trophy and that's what all Evertonians would have wanted Moyes to achieve once in his 11-year reign.

Moyes is too cautious in big games and that's why he hasn't won anything in his time with us and unless he changes his style, mentality and tactics very quickly, he'll be shown the exit door at OT in a flash!

Paul Gallagher
756 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:08:16
I hate the way we have become a feeder club for Man Utd, and we are a landfill site for their rubbish. Brian, that could be a possibility, the total package for me would be Klopp. Klopp unlike Moyes has a plan A-Z, he is a master tactician. Klopp went to Dortmund, when the club had to take a 20-percent pay cut, and were flirting with relegation, 3 years later, he won the Bundesliga. If Kenwright brought a manager of Klopp's calibre, I would take every word back about what I have said about him.
Davie Turner
757 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:06:31
Redknapp, O'Neill, McLaren have all won a trophy or two maybe they should get an interview. They winners!

Ignoring all things Everton, I like Martinez he a nice guy, his adventurous style is very nice like he is but really, he still has a worse league record with Wigan than Bruce!

Very happy for Wigan and Martinez, but I still can't see him as that manager to take us forward, but then, he did win a cup a week before being relegated. Of course he avoided those questions on leaving, he is going to be managing in the Championship if he stays! As for top clubs in Italy and Spain, well the RS didn't think he was more than Brenda.

Ross Edwards said "Adventurous attack always triumphs over boring cautious football and that is why Martinez should be at the Old Lady next season."

Martinez in the league, W9 D8 L19

I am glad they won the cup (they did have a good run to the final as quite frankly today was their toughest game after our non-appearance), but I just feel that Martinez is stuck in a loop and can't adapt as a manager, if he was so good Wigan would have been safe long ago, I don't expect miracles but they should have been they have good players, it as if he still the same as he was at Swansea, he can't win messy. I want a manager who plays attractive football, but I also want one that can grind out a 1-0 when it needed, sorry but no Martinez for me..

Ged Simpson
758 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:14:14
Jesus I hope they appoint someone soon so the pro and anti Moyes arguments can be put to bed and we can leave our pigeon holes.........and take a breath before we all climb into some new ones !
James Martin
759 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:14:36
Over exaggeration? Hardly the reserve of the 'anti-Moyes mob' is it? Both sides have used every dirty trick you can think of in the book, statistical manipulation, omission, I think both sides of the divide have been abit guilty of that over the years.

I didn't relaise this site was so pedantic (then again I should have remembered how I had to downgrade my description of Arteta as 'top' foreign talent because it outraged some) these are normal throw away phases. Of course I didn't mean we were going to buy half their team.

Paul Ferry
760 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:19:29
Ged (758) — In-between the high and the low cliff is liminality and that is where the seagull will always go.
Ged Simpson
761 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:22:13
Oh get over past arguments James and look forward
Paul Ferry
762 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:22:30
"Of course I didn't mean we were going to buy half their team" — Well don't say so then! Too many literalists on here? Bastards.
Richard Tarleton
763 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:20:40
Martinez, not quite Laudrup, but a million times better than the dour Celts being advocated. By the way we had Macanaman, but the manager at the time sent him away, no potential or something of that ilk!
Paul Ferry
765 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:23:44
Hear hear Ged
Brian Waring
766 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:17:29
Davie, all Martinez needs is a good defensive assistant next to him on the bench.
Paul Andrews
767 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:20:39
James Martin,
you set the bar pretty high there, 4th for the new manager?
I think I am right in saying you are a Moyes fan,correct me if i`m wrong,he could only manage it once.
My take for what it`s worth, on the reasons Wigan are always around the relegation fight is Martinez wont compromise on his passing style.When your around the relegation places you need to kick and fight a bit more,he refuses to do that.
Obviously his passing style will reap better rewards with better players higher up the table.
As you say it`s only opinion.
Ged Simpson
769 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:25:31
That is bloody profound Paul (760). Pack that in - where do you think you are.
James Martin
770 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:20:20
Brian, Coleman Baines Gibson Mirallas Jelavic Anichebe Oviedo Barkley Heitinga Fellaini Duffy vellios - all under 30

If you add that Jagielka will have a good few years in his prime, and that Osman and Pienaar are 31ish (I think) and have no pace anyway then its hardly an ageing squad is it.

Out of the players that have contributed to our season only Neville Distin and Howard are super old and one of these is a goal keeper (maybe you oculd throw Hibbert in as well). This is the sort of natural spread of ages you find at most top clubs. The new manager will certainly not have to start a fresh and its not a particularly ageing squad.

Chris Leyland
772 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:11:35
It really is laughable and a dign if how pathetic we are becoming that ToffeeWeb has a headline about Wigan winning the cup. I can't recall reading another main story about other teams winning the cup on here before. The bitterness land bile aimed at Moyes is also quite frankly pathetic too. I was a supporter of Moyes when he was our manager but he is fucking off to a bigger job and so, I don't care any more about whether he was or wasn't good or what he may or may not have done or will do in the future. I support Everton, this is an Everton fans website and for God's sake can we get back to focussing on our own club rather than Man U or Wigan? I've been posting about these other clubs on other threads but no more for me as I've realised it is counter-productive and actually serves no purpose.

Unless and until Martinez is paraded as our new manager then I don't give a flying fuck about him either. He has won a cup but he is also in danger of getting relegated too. He had a go today but he fucked up big time against West Brom earlier this week too. All I will be interested in if he becomes our manager is how he does as our manager not how he did at Wigan.

Paul Ferry
773 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:27:08
Think it over Brother Simpson, there is worth in those words and who, you may ask, is the seagull, eh, eh
James Martin
777 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:26:50
Paul where would you set the bar? Where can it be set? Surely we have to aim for there?

I always felt Moyes understood the importance of good league form and was always trying to improve us to get us there - the evidence being that we've been closer than ever to getting it this year (or at least looking like a top 4 team). Ultimately in his time here he's failed to do that for whatever reason people see fit to explain this. Monetary constraints, competition too intense, cautious mindset and overreliance on players - its probably a combination of all these things. If he'd seen the Fellaini money next year and invested it well then I think we might have had another decent crack at it but who knows how it would have turned out.

Surely this has to be the remit for the new manager though if not next season then in the foreseeable future. Otherwise we are going to be stuck in this place of top players using us a stepping stone. there might be a trophy win, but there won't be many and it won't come in the form of a league title or champions league. So yes I do think there should be a high bar for the new manager - he should be better in all the areas that Moyes wasn't - I want him to be better because it will be better for Everton.

Steven Telford
778 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:25:35
This great team by this great manager have also battled relegation every year. But of course you chose not to mention that because you objective is to "sell Martinez" to the audience. If you want to sell him, fine but please, extend us the basic courtesy of including a more complete story.

Why did you not write an article about a certain manger with a tiny net spend managed to keep a certain club consistently competing for a European place? Didn't suite your selected agenda?

League positions show consistency, and so provide better basis for judging quality. One-off cup wins come with an element of luck. As well, this is an Everton website, not a Wigan website.

Davie Turner
779 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:30:27
@766 Brian

We have plenty of those!!!

I still can't be swayed, if he does get the job then I hope he proves me wrong and I'll cheer the team all the same (dunno if I could do that if Hughes walked in the door).

For some reason I still want Solskjaer, as a player he was excellent, he also a good guy and, despite a poor start this season, has done very well with Molde, he young and has learnt at Utd as reserve team manager. You can pick many holes in him and his lack of experience but if you gave me a choice today, I'd take him over Martinez and todays result for Wigan hasn't changed my mind. Lets face it, the manager with the best record against City in the prem is Moyes! So can hardly call them tough opponents ;)

Ged Simpson
780 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:29:54
I'd just like to see the old order break down a bit quicker grasshopper
Paul Ferry
785 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:36:52
The truth is in the particles. Moyes is no more. Time to move on. He has crossed the Stygian River to Manure. We are all that matters now.
David Chait
786 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:31:05
Reading 756 and 757 reminded me why I was against Martinez before the final. It isn't that I think he is bad, but my sights were set much much higher. I want a Klopp or Hiddink. Realistically can we get someone with that record? I believe it comes down to timing actually.

Roberto definitely won some points with me today, but I can't get over his inability to improve his side over the last few years that rankles me. But if he comes, we'll all give him a fair chance I'm sure.

Ged Simpson
788 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:41:23
True true.

See y'all for the match

Adios

Paul Andrews
789 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:35:46
James,

I set the bar at 1st every year. Unrealistic of course, if that doesn't happen then 2nd.....3rd etc. I think a new, positive, attack-minded manager would definitely improve our position of 6th/7th this season.

As I said earlier in my opinion, Moyes underachieved this season. If we were more positive (at the right times, not gung ho in every game) we would have turned some of our 15 draws into wins... 3 out of the 15 would have us above Spurs.

Robin Cannon
791 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:30:50
This whole "he released McManaman" being used as proof of a failure to invest in youth is such crap.

McManaman was 16 at the time. This is the first year he's played more than 3 Premier League games.

So presumably Barcelona are shit at nurturing youngsters because they released Jordi Alba and then spent about ten million quid buying him back a few years later. Or maybe European finalists Dortmund, because they released Reus as a youngster and had to buy him back for millions. Or maybe Lille, who released Franck RIbery.

Releasing a 16 year old who, several years later goes on to show great potential as a player, is not an abject failure or really a demonstration of anything other than the relative degree of luck which goes into the development of any young player.

Colin Wainwright
793 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:40:23
Paul (711). He's like the anti-twitter. "Fuck 149 characters, I use over 149 words, every fucking post!"
James Martin
806 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:54:15
Ah Colin its been a while - you were doing so well - couldn't take the cold turkey of not commenting about me? No worries mate you can always get back on the wagon and start again.
Colin Wainwright
808 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:56:14
I wasn't talking to you James, you sensitive wee soul. Don't get upset.
James Martin
809 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:57:50
No Colin but like a lot of your posts it was about me- it even had the adorable little quotes you like to make up and imagine that I'm saying.
Colin Wainwright
814 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:03:23
It was just an, admittedly shite, attempt at a joke, James. Don't go running off to Kipper man. They couldn't handle posts of that intellect and magnitude.

Promise I wont mention you again.

Ok?

Tony J Williams
815 Posted 11/05/2013 at 21:42:16
Would there have been a post congratulating City if they would have won?
John Gee
817 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:07:32
Congratulations to Wigan. MotM is a young player released at 16 and the match winner has just come back from a broken leg. Roy of the Rovers, eat your heart out!

Great performance, good game in spite of it being a tense occasion. The only downside was the commentators. They really couldn't give a monkeys if one of their favourites aren't playing. Andy Townsend is as unfamiliar with commentary and insight as Ray Mears is to a Travelodge.

John Gee
819 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:15:11
Tony, I think it evokes memories of Paul Rideout. It did for me anyway.
Ed Fitzgerald
822 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:15:23
Tony

No we probably wouldnt. However as Wigan murdered us at Goodison and their manager is a potentially a front runner for the soon to be vacant post at Goodison it is a valid topic for debate.

The real reason however is that in my opinion it was one of the best performances I have seen in a cup final for many a year and it wasnt by one of the usual suspects. The style of football from Wigan was without fear, was stylish, was inventive and was pleasing on the eye. It was lacking the typical negativity and sterility that many of the so called 'top' teams display. I would love Everton to adopt that attitude. I hope Wigan don't get relegated because they at least try to play football the way it should be, rather than the fayre served up by Stoke.

Michael Kenrick
825 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:20:15
Interesting to see who the mean-spirited ones are popping on to this thread with their negativity — a thread which started at the beginning of the game today as a timely diversion away from the Moyes/Man Utd business this week for anyone who wanted to get on the Live Forum.

That it turned out to be a brilliant game of football was a bonus.

That the plucky under-resourced relegation-threatened club won against the superstar moneybags was an even bigger bonus.

That the game did something to redress the decline in the value and image of the FA Cup was also a bonus.

Stephen Telford, 'selling Martinez" is not something I have any interest in, so your agenda-mongering is misplaced. And so-called "one-off cup wins" do something we haven't seen since 1995: they win trophies.

TJW — stupid question that seems to completely miss the entire point of the celebration. But if you want to do your usual "let's blame the players" analysis of City failings... be my guest.

Chris Leyland, how ironic. People are so fond of citing what other clubs do as "explanation" or "context" or "perspective" for how we should view Everton. I've been slammed before when reiterating that Everton are the only thing that matter to me, and what other teams do or don't do is irrelevant. But today was the FA Cup Final — what was once, and I believe should be again a special day in the football calendar for all fans.

Oh, and another Everton link: just listening on BBC 5Live to who else but Matt Jackson; he is now a coach with Wigan's Academy.

Barry Rathbone
828 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:14:47
Well done, Wigan — a salutary lesson to the excuse merchants.

I was the first to call for Martinez at the beginning of last season laying out his innovative work at Swansea as the prime reason – got absolutely slated for it by the Moyes dolts – kiss my arse!

Sam Hoare
831 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:40:22
Well done Wigan, who have showed no bigger team can expect to always beat smaller teams.
Paul Andrews
835 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:44:51
Your right Sam.
Difference is Mancini will get the sack for that performance.
Just trying,but struggling,to recall all our performances that prove your point.
Let me see......Shrewsbury,Tranmere,Leeds,...........(head starts spinning when he remembers how mant there are during the Moyes reign)
Simon Harris
836 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:45:59
Well done Barry, pat yourself on the back. If he keeps em up (i hope he does) I'll buy you pint of Chang at Goodison. :-)
Colin Wainwright
838 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:51:25
TBH, didn't see the game (jock tele showing Take The High Road omnibus, or some such shite), but believe the Latics more than deserved it. Well done the pie munchers.
Colin Glassar
841 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:52:31
Good call Barry, people seem to forget the good work Martinez did at Swansea on peanuts. He took an obscure league one (?) team and developed them from top to bottom into the team they are today. We need a revolution at GP and that doesn't involve numpties like Lennon, Hughes or McKay and even less some of the good old boys like Stubbsy, Neville or Big Dunc, no disrespect to the first or third mentioned but they don't have the experience or guile to move us forward.
Gavin Wadeson
844 Posted 11/05/2013 at 22:55:10
I'm was as pro-Moyes as you could get, and only a few days ago, I also hated the thought of Martinez replacing him. However, today I hold my hands up...

Barry Rathbone (828) you were right and I was completely wrong. Martinez is a better manager than Moyes on so many levels!! I would be very surprised if Kenwright doesn't offer him the job. If he doesn't, I may have to change my pro-Kenwright opinions as well....

Paul Ferry
871 Posted 12/05/2013 at 00:15:01
Gavin mate - 844 - pro-Kenwright opinions!
Kev Johnson
873 Posted 12/05/2013 at 00:12:00
Well played Wigan, well managed Martinez!

Has he got more votes on the TW poll since the match? I bet he has! He had my vote straight away. I like the man and I like the kind of football his team plays. Am I worried about his team's defensive record? Yes, I am. Am I concerned about Wigan's low placing in the Premiership in the last few seasons? Yes, I am. But the man's approach to the game excites me and I think he can take a step up and do the business for us.

Best of all - and I don't think anyone has mentioned this - we can now say that we were beaten by the FA Cup winners! If we hadn't met the mighty Wigan in the quarters we'd have won it ourselves. Juvenile logic, but curiously satisfying, I find.

Tamhas Woods
894 Posted 12/05/2013 at 01:35:31
If Wigan go down and Martinez replaces Moyes, could we meet the asking price for McManamanamanamanamanamanamanamanamanaman? Hope so.
Andy Smith
896 Posted 12/05/2013 at 01:37:22
I know we're all very cynical about stories which start along the lines of my sister's boyfriend's mate met so-and-so in a bar and heard that etc etc....

However, I received an interesting text from my best mate earlier. He's a scouser who lives in London and whose wife works for the FA (in a not insignificant role) Whilst in obligatory attendance at Wembley for the final, she was told, in direct conversation with Martinez's wife Beth, that he IS our new manager, regardless of whether Wigan stay up or not.

I should add that both my life-long friend and his missus are reds but used the word 'gutted' in reaction to what they had heard!

Anyhow, make of this what you will, IMHO he is a vast improvement on the likes of Lennon, Mackay or Hughes but I would've still preferred someone like Perreira or Klopp.


COYB

Robbie Shields
908 Posted 12/05/2013 at 02:09:57
Just watched the Cup Final for a second time and loved it every bit as much as watching it first time round. It's the only non Everton Cup Final I've ever watched fully twice. Watching it live, I thought to myself, "OK, let's just pretend Wigan are Everton, this is Martinez's Everton taking on Man City in the FA Cup Final, what are my thoughts as an Evertonian watching?"

Well, I have to say after a slowish start they got better and better and better. Couldn't detect any signs of an inferiority complex, nerves or cautiousness; they fought for everything and when they got the ball they passed it around quickly, with purpose and positively. They created some great chances, should have had two nailed-on penalties, and kept City down to only a few opportunities during the whole game. Wigan got exactly what they deserved despite having a few very very average players in that team and playing against a team that genuinely cost hundreds of millions.

My son's footy coach here is a mad Wigan fan, has been all his life, and watches Wigan all the time. He has been saying for ages that Martinez has a true footballing philosophy and refuses to play any percentage football. He reckons they've had to sell their best players every year, yet he gets them playing great stuff. Like us, they don't get many decisions going their way and this costs them. Makes sense really when you think about it; they are even more unfashionable than us! When the pressure mounts, injuries strike, decisions go against them, bad luck happens, and they end up in the relegation zone; he sticks to his guns and they play their way out. The rest of the teams play percentage and panic football. He has a vision for how the beautiful game should be played and has a great eye for a bargain; this is the type of manager I want for the next 11 years at the mighty Blues.

That team cost £11 million apparently, less than Fellaini! Wigan have a wage bill which is supposed to be around 2/3 of Everton's; if true, that's pretty unbelievable.

I had voted on ToffeeWeb for Vitor Pereria — can I have my vote changed please, Lyndon and Michael, I want Martinez.

On TV here in Australia, the anchorman reckons that Martinez would be Everton's gain and Man Utd's loss, and I personally have to agree.

If Andy #896 is right, these are happy happy days to be a Blue.

On another note, my blind cousin David (England's greatest goalscorer no less) was the guest of honor at the Cup Final, presented to the players on the pitch and he presented the Cup to Wigan; guess where he's from? Wigan, this is turning out to be a great week.

In Martinez We Trust!

Tim Jones
914 Posted 12/05/2013 at 02:53:07
Barry Rathbone # 828 The farsighted are often derided by the deluded mate.
John Roberts
933 Posted 12/05/2013 at 03:57:48
Well done to Wigan - a truly great performance. But I wonder what effect that game has had on the odds of Mancini becoming our next manager!!
Derek Thomas
947 Posted 12/05/2013 at 04:07:54
Brian # 766 wrong, what Moyes needed and what Martinez may need is another attacking assistant ( not a headset wearing clip board holding yes man like round ) to keep him on the straight and narrow.

To be fair to Moyes the only team he ( with the exception of the knife to gun fight game ) has no trouble taking on is city, I think he plain just doesn't like mancini.

It now will remain forever moot after he played a half fit rapidly fading before our eyes neville Vs Wigan...for all we know he may have reverted to type at Wembley.

what a day that would've been for us. the 80th aniversary of Dixies Cup Final. Both teams could have played in replicas of the original strips us in white and black them in maroon.

I wanted Moyes to go, I thought he would go, even if it was just on extended holiday. But I never in a million years thought it would be to United. and on a 6yr contract. Has he gone for the same money he is on here or less given his no trophy record.

Get some one in soon bill don't skimp, you would've had to pay Moyes if he stayed

Congrats to wigan real roy of the rovers stuff I expect to find out soon that Martinez has given his winners medal to Whelan.

As for city, did any body see kompany get a scarf put round his neck by a city fan while he was coming up the steps, we didn't actually see him yank it of and drop it on the floor but 3 secs later he had no scarf on...sums them up, no class.

Bill action a week on monday once the prem is all done and dusted, get him signed up

Ian Bennett
002 Posted 12/05/2013 at 07:50:11
Barry 828 - even Derek McGovern gets something right from time to time.
Gavin Wadeson
025 Posted 12/05/2013 at 08:53:10
Paul Ferry (871) ....that's right, you're not seeing things, I am pro-Kenwright haha. 12 years ago, I used to post on here (under the name "The Gaffer" – cringeworthy name, I know). Not only was I pro-Kenwright 12 years ago, but I also got into a few arguments with people on here because of my pro-Walter opinions!!!
John Crawley
064 Posted 12/05/2013 at 10:23:40
Re McManaman he was told that he was the most technically gifted player since Rooney but physically he wouldn't be up to it. He was in rodwell's age group. Typical in the sense that we place less importance on technique and pace than physique. I mean its not like we've had a stream of pacy wingers coming through the ranks. I saw him play for Blackpool when he was on loan there and he stood out straight away. He was clearly too good for the championship.
Paul Tran
204 Posted 12/05/2013 at 14:31:03
Remember those heady days of the mid-90s? When an Everton team spoiled some peoples' history by winning a trophy in the 'Premiership era'?

Of course, before then, we had Mike Walker badly attempting to football his way out of relegation strife. He just missed out on relegation first time round and was in the process of finishing the job when we sacked him, replaced him with Big Joe and the rest was history.

A respected match-going acquaintance of mine always said that if Walker had come after Royle, he'd have done better, but he had no idea of how to scrap his way out of trouble. Not sure if that would have been true, but it got me thinking about whether Martinez's style may be better suited to a top seven side?

By the way, I know football is 'different' now, but the minute big Joe arrived he brought in a good striker, added some pace and a bit of nastiness. You know the rest. I bet Joe's wondering what might have been if he'd got the support Moyes got.

I hope the new man immediately does exactly the same as Joe to build on Moyes' good work. I think that's all we need to push on.

David Booth
455 Posted 12/05/2013 at 20:15:59
Er, point of order here everyone: a lot of you are advocating we appoint a manager who looks very likely to get his side relegated?

However 'nice' he is and however 'attacking' his side is (a consequence of having no defensive nous whatsoever, consistently resulting in a hugely negative imbalance), he flirts with relegation every season - and may well get what he deserves this time.

And you want him as our next manager?

The MOB on here are so going to get what they deserve.

We'll end up scrapping with the likes of Norwich, Sunderland and Stoke with Martinez in charge.

Rubbing shoulders with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs and finishing ahead of the Gobshites will be as feasible as it was under Mike Walker.

Alex MacLeish is free. He won the league cup with Birmingham. Let's have him?

Brendan McLaughlin
544 Posted 12/05/2013 at 22:27:20
Congratulations indeed. No doubt the Wigan fans will bask in the glory of their FA cup triumph for the next year or two or five or whatever it takes for them to get back into the Premier league... if ever!
David Hamilton
559 Posted 12/05/2013 at 23:01:13
This might seem a bit churlish under the circumstances, but there is no way we would have played City off the park the way Wigan did. We would have defended for 90 minutes, hoping to get a lucky break, and would eventually have lost 2-0.

I also very much doubt that Wigan would have won without Martinez. He had it all worked out, and had the players prepared to perfection.

Beating us in the 6th Round was no fluke. At Wembley, I was very pleased for them.

Jackie Barry
564 Posted 12/05/2013 at 23:09:22
John that's interesting what you wrote about Mcmanaman and how he was told he did not have the physical presence for the top flight. Why, because when I look at our team we have this scrawny fella called Leon Osman who gets outmuscled all the time.

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