If you have just read the above, you're probably wondering why I am talking about Liverpool youngsters? The answer to that is that Everton don't appear to have any youngsters worth talking about.
Since Jack Rodwell departed to Man City in the summer, Everton no longer appear to have any young players who Uncle Roy may consider for England.
Let's be honest, if Uncle Roy looks at Everton at the moment he's got Jagielka (30) and Baines (27) who rightfully get called up but, other than them then there is nobody.
In fact the only other Everton players Uncle Roy could consider are Phil Neville (35), Tony Hibbert (31) and Leon Osman (31). All of them are in their 30s and probably only Osman deserves consideration for an England call up. But at 31 Osman is unlikely to ever make his England debut now.
Dig a little deeper and you find that there are actually a few young English players around the Everton squad. Here's a list of them:
Ross Barkley (18)
Young Ross made his Everton debut in August 2011. He earned rave reviews with Martin Keown gushing "Barkley will be one of the best players we'll ever see in this country." He was immediately linked to both Chelsea and Man Utd and elevated to the England U21 squad. It looked like Everton had unearthed another promising youngster following on from Rooney and Rodwell. But then almost as suddenly as he appeared Barkley disappeared. Did his attitude upset Moyes? Did Moyes stop playing Barkley to kill off the Man Utd/Chelsea rumors? Whatever the reason Barkley made only a handful of sporadic appearances last season and then this season finds himself on-loan at bottom three Championship side Sheffield Wednesday. There has been very little news about Ross Barkley at Sheffield Wednesday. He's not exactly setting the Championship on fire and currently the England U21 selectors are ignoring him.
Luke Garbutt (19)
Had a full season at League 2 side Cheltenham last year. By all accounts did pretty well. But he's a left back and he'll never get a chance at Everton while Leighton Baines is around.
Jake Bidwell (19)
Had a full season at League 1 side Brentford last year and finds himself back there this year. Brentford manager Uwe Rosler raves about him but he\'s a left back and just like Garbutt he\'ll never break into the Everton side while Leighton Baines is around.
Conor McAleny (20)
The young striker has made two substitute appearances for Everton so far. Not exactly getting much experience and looks miles away from the Everton starting eleven.
Behind those main contenders you have Hallam Hope (18), John Lundstram (18) and George Green (16).
But let's be honest Hope, Lundstram and Green currently have as much chance of making the Everton first team as Barkley, Garbutt, Bidwell and McAlney.... No chance! The only hope as they say is No Hope and Bob Hope and er...... Hallam Hope. But mostly No Hope.
So with no English youngsters around the Everton team who are the younger players in the Everton team?
Well currently the youngest player to make the team regularly (although mostly as a substitute) is new recruit and Costa Rican International Bryan Oviedo (22).
Other than Oviedo there\'s Irish Seamus Coleman (24 on Thursday) and striker Victor Anichebe (24) who chose to play for Nigeria. Belgian International Kevin Mirallas is 25 but to call him a youngster is pushing it.
Does is worry anyone else that Oviedo (22), Coleman (24) and Anichebe (24) are the only \'young\' players to be getting regular football at Everton? Are they even young players?
There are a few other players Irish kid Shane Duffy (20) has played for Everton but has zero chance of a regular place behind Jagielka, Distin and Heitinga.
Portuguese star Francisco Junior (20) made his debut in the Cup defeat to Leeds last week and let's be fair to the lad looked bloody awful.
French kid Magaye Gueye (22) was once called the secret weapon by David Moyes. But the secret seems to be that he's not very good. Handful of uninspiring appearances.
Greek god Apostolos Vellios (20) has made a handful of appearances and got a couple of goals but lately seems to have fallen out of favour and looks likely to be shipped out on loan sometime soon.
Then there's new Scottish sensation Matthew Kennedy (17) who joined the club on deadline day. Don\'t know anything about him except he\'s a long way from the Everton starting eleven.
So let's recap:
Current youngsters (who aren't youngsters) getting first team football. Oviedo (22), Coleman (24) and Anichebe (24).
Foreign youngsters around the squad but not quite good enough for the first team. Duffy (20), Gueye (22) and Vellios (22).
English youngsters who are age appropriate to be playing for Everton but have no chance of breaking into the starting eleven. Barkley (18), Garbutt (19), Bidwell (19), McAlney (20).
And the rest who are probably too young to be considered even though they could be if they were good enough. Hope (18), Lundstram (18), Green (16) and Kennedy (17).
So while the young Liverpool players establish themselves as both Premiership and England stars we at Everton must continue to try to convince ourselves that Anichebe and Coleman are youngsters. When in fact they aren\'t youngsters and they aint even very good.
Now I know that Everton are currently 4th and Liverpool are 14th. And yes I agree now is probably not the time to start moaning.
But there was a time when David Moyes spoke about creating a young team. He even used the words British players.
Lately it seems the young players at Everton have dried up. particularly the young English players.
I\'m an Everton fan and I want to see young English players breaking into both the Everton team and the international scene.
I don\'t want to have to make a case for Osman to get called up. I want to make a case for Barkley or Hope or even Bidwell.
But realistically are Everton likely to have a group of English youngsters who can push Shelvey, Stirling, Henderson and Wisdom for an England call-up?
At the moment Everton don't even have an English youngster in the U21 squad.
Am I the only one who wants Moyes to look at this situation? Dare I say it, but maybe even look accross at the blue print Brendan Rodgers is laying at Liverpool and do a similar thing with Hope, Lundstram and Green?
Your thoughts on this matter are appreciated.
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926 Posted 10/10/2012 at 10:16:55
Our youngsters do not seem to be thriving under the present trainers. No-one has successfully come through since Rooney. Other clubs are doing far better than we are at bringing through young players. Unfortunately, Liverpool are totally outshining us in that particular department.
We obviously did not see the potential in Jags or Baines as they were both released as juniors and then ironically bought back after they were successfully developed at other clubs.
Our scouts are not finding good youngsters and our youth trainers are not bringing the best out of them. I'm afraid that at the present time our senior players have no pressure from our youngsters and can play as long as they want to!
933 Posted 10/10/2012 at 09:34:11
Everton's coaches seem able to to develop youngsters no further than their mid teens. After that its a case of whatever potential they had melts away.
Is it a case of Moyes being too careful with the kids or is it a lack of understanding from our fans when a youngster makes a few mistakes.
Look no further than the Leeds game and the stick copped by Junior.
Weather conditions were horrible for his first senior game away from home. Everton was doomed before a ball was kicked. Is it any wonder the lad had a bad game.
He would not have come in for as much stick from Twebbers had he been an experienced Pro.
It is sad to say yet it is noticeable that across the park you will find that despite all their expected mistakes their kids get maximum crowd support.
Anything less than the finished article is good enough for some Blues.
934 Posted 10/10/2012 at 10:52:39
Bart: Wow! Can I see your club?
Lou: It's called a baton, son.
Bart: Oh. What's it for?
Lou: We club people with it.
Is this just another Moyes bash?
938 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:02:05
1) You seem to miss out arguably our best younger player Fellaini, he's only 24.
2) The Liverpool players you mention Shelvey, Stirling and Henderson were all bought by Liverpool for not inconsiderable fee's. True that Wisdom is home grown but money plays a big part here.
3) I think we have had 5 players play recently in the england U19 squad Barkley, Lundstram, Hope, Garbutt and Bidwell and I would not be surprised if at least 2 or 3 of these players did not get decent first team chances at everton in the next 2 seasons.
4) Up untill the summer we had an U21 stalwart in rodwell but sold him (i think wisely) in order to strengthen the first team, which at the moment looks to be a vindicated decision.
I take your point that we don't have a huge amount of 20-22 year olds about to break in but the group just below looks promising and should be given a chance when injuries inevitably disrupt things.
940 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:19:49
941 Posted 10/10/2012 at 10:54:02
Everton's 1st team are performing well....
We have the likes of Baines (touted as the best LB in the PL or even the world in some reports), Jelavic who is hailed as the best CF we have had since the mid 80's. Fellaini being one of the best players in the league so far this season.
Yet you point to youth not getting a chance - Bidwell, Garbutt, McAleny, Barkley.
I think the youth's we have look promising (add Green/Kennedy in the mix) but do you really want these in the team at present when we are doing (reasonably) well.
I get it that it would be great to be top of the league with a team full of under 21 internationals.
But realistically we have a team who appear to be as good as what we have had for years, currently in a top 4 position - Would you swap that for Liverpool's position and to have a few youth players pushed into the England squad (to fill places).
942 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:13:04
Where would we be if Rooney , Jeffers et al had not been produced and sold on for fees which quite possibly saved the club from financial ruin.
It is also a concern that our near neighbours appear to have stolen a march regarding youngsters as their financial clout although lessened is still far greater than our own.
I am also concerned that everything Everton achieve seems to be about David Moyes, we are a football club not a one man band.
DM has done many good things at the club , but if everything is down to one man then we are in serious trouble if and when he leaves.
I'm sure Arsenal and Man U are heavily influenced by their respective managers but the managers in question would acknowledge that they rely on their Directors , coaches , physios and backroom staff for any of the sucessess they have had.
At Everton it would appear that without Moyes , we would find it difficult to continue on a steady course. This to my mind is gross mis-management by those who run the club , ie the board of directors.
947 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:31:25
And please...never mention Henderson as a representation of youth development. He was brought for a fee approaching 20mil at 20ish, has barely played a good match for Liverpool, cannot make even their depleted first team, and was being offered around the premierleague on deadline day. If anything he has regressed as a Liverpool player, and serves as a perfect representation of a wasteful transfer policy which has ended their tenure as one of the countries top clubs.
948 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:39:57
Also, Henderson, Shelvey and Sterling cost something close to £30million between them, add £11million for Borini (what is he 20/21?) puts the remergence of the Liverpool conveyer belt into a bit more of a realistic perspective doesn't it.
949 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:31:49
i wouldn't be saying that shelvey, henderson etc are any better than those type of players, its just that they are getting a chance cos liverpoo are so poor at the moment and i'm so glad that everton havent gone and wasted £20m quid on that type of player.
In my opinion, these young players have maybe 4 good games max then fade until they physically mature to the rigours of the premiership. Much better to send them out on loan to 'toughen up'
952 Posted 10/10/2012 at 11:52:30
What is the constant need for people to want to bring in players that they know virtually nothing about? We tried that at Leeds and look what happened?
Fuucking Football manager has a lot to answer for I tells thee!!
998 Posted 10/10/2012 at 16:53:32
Sterling is also getting games out of necessity as they no longer have top class internationals to play ahead of him. In short his a gamble worth taking for Rodgers.
For us if we have any young players that are better than Pienaar/Feliani/Osman/Mirallis in midfield they will get a game, if we have a better young forward than Jelavic they will get a game and so on, if you look around the premiership there are very few young English players anywhere that you would pick out to play ahead of our 1st team players, possibly Wilshere and Oxelaide Chamberlain the only 2 I can think of.
000 Posted 10/10/2012 at 17:30:40
Check Southampton's list of players who've come through and went on to be REAL players.
Bridge, Bale, Walcott and Oxlade Chamberlain are among them.
003 Posted 10/10/2012 at 17:47:13
I will say I'd like to see our players who have undoubted PL potential, like George Green and Ross Barkley given a LOT more time in games.
Barkley basically spent all of last season playing reserve football. Even before his injury at about this time last season, I recall Moyes saying that we shouldn't expect to be seeing him play for the first team(again) until March/April......all because he had a dodgy game where he was at fault for a goal if I recall rightly.
How many goals have jags, heitinga, distin or Neville given away? How many "dodgy" games did Louis Saha have? Tim Cahill? How are young players meant to acclimatise if as soon as they have an off-day they're banished for 6 months to the youth side? Blame supporters if you like, but that decision rests squarely with the manager.
Last season, Barkley should either have been played, or loaned out like he has been at Sheff Wed. This season, when we're leading games like we have been against southampton at home, that would be an ideal opportunity to give the likes of George Green or Junior 10-15 minutes to have a run and get experience with less pressure.
Whatever you say about the lack of money the club has, I think we can and should be doing more to ensure that young players that we do have get every opportunity to improve. I think Dick's post certainly has some validity in that respect.
013 Posted 10/10/2012 at 18:56:11
017 Posted 10/10/2012 at 19:36:43
051 Posted 11/10/2012 at 01:10:35
063 Posted 11/10/2012 at 02:40:32
The only genuinely "old" players are Distin (34) and Neville (35).
Our youngsters are all around the 17/18 year old mark. A time when they should perhaps be making a few inroads, but not playing regular first team football in a successful team.
073 Posted 11/10/2012 at 07:52:59
Which of them would get into our team?
Was Shelvey really more deserving of a call up than Osman (forget age-am talking about ability & form)
Some ppl are NEVER happy. How do you know whether Bidwell, Garbutt etc will get a chance? So what if they play left back? Baines could get injure or sold or they may change position (G Neville was a ctre mid and switched to RB, Hibbert was a striker and switched, Scholes was a striker and converted to ctre mid, Rodwell was supposedly a ctre back and went midfield).
Why would we bother to buy Green & Kennedy if we have no intention to develop them?
Since Jags/Baines how many youngsters have we released that have gone on to make it? None: hence the players aren't good enough: they're getting squeezed out by the foreigners.
How many Liverpool youngsters are better than our players? Is Kelly better than Duffy?
By the way, when did Moyes say 'I'm dropping Barkley cos of his mistake vs Blackburn?' do you really think the guy is such an amateur that he has a tolerance rate of 1 mistake? Why wouldn't he drop Distin or Howard etc for the numerous mistakes they've made then
Would you really rather be mid table with unexciting youngsters like that lot or would you rather be 4th with a good team/squad and knowing that actually Bidwell, Barkley & Garbutt ARE out there getting experience?
Who was the last young lad that we let slip thru our fingers that them lot snapped up? Gerard?
Things have changed finally
081 Posted 11/10/2012 at 09:39:07
Do you seriously believe the smoke and mirrors trick being spouted by that gobshite Rodgers.
I thought he was a man of integrity and all he does is moan and fucking groan about how badly they are done too.
Regards his players, he has no choice but to bullshit them up as he hasn't got a pot to piss in. Do you seriously think if he had a wadd of cash them kids would get anywhere near the first team.
As for Shelvy ! If he is international class then so was Brett Angel, the lads a fucking yard dog, a wannabe Stevie-me without the talent.
083 Posted 11/10/2012 at 09:47:53
Can you also take into account that Roy has a definate weakness for players from the dark side. I mean Henderson is total shite - he's lucky if Rodgers gives him a peak at the pitch but somehow Roy plonks him into his squad. I'm guessing that Henderson in the English squad keeps his value somewhere close to a fiver - mind you nothing like the 18m they paid for him.
As for Shelvey, the guy's a thug and would last about 20 minutes against a proper international side before the ref gives him the boot - make no mistake though him and Gerrard are going put it about when the come to GP.
If you are being honest it isn't much of an accomplishment representing England - I doubt spain, germany etc give a fuck about Henderson, Shelvey or any other RS player. Even now Roy's talking about converting Gerrard into a CB.
084 Posted 11/10/2012 at 09:40:18
Shelvey and Henderson? Absolute pap.
San Marino wouldn't want Henderson!
I'm sure a few of our lads will come through in the next few years, especially Barkley and Green.
I'll be honest, I thought Vellios would be more prominent, the lad looked sharp when he played. I wonder what happened?
087 Posted 11/10/2012 at 10:43:09
106 Posted 11/10/2012 at 13:48:57
On the other hand, David Moyes prefers to play his more experienced pros no matter how good or bad: Cahill, Neville, Arteta, Heitinga, Distin, Osman & Hibbert to name a few.
While Leon's name is mentioned, it's a point to make that he will never play for England because he simply isn't at Liverpool or Man Utd or Chelsea. I think Joe Cole would play ahead of Leon if push came to shove.
Many are also overlooking the fact that kids in football chase money not medals; for every Ryan Giggs, there will be 10 Judas Lescotts (in fairness, Lescott has now won a title but Judas wasn't guaranteed a title at the time). If players wanted progress to enhance their skills, Rooney would of stayed longer, Rodwell may have wanted to try harder to stay, etc, etc but many realise these days that a football career lasts about 10 years or 2 contracts so take the money while you can.
My rabbling on is just a few ideas I have as to why England as a footballing nation is suffering compared to Podolski dropping down a level to Cologne to reach Arsenal; Gary Cahill leaving Villa to play regularly at Bolton to reach Chelsea is the only English example I have.
113 Posted 11/10/2012 at 15:14:55
I think it brings his position into question when there is so much better talent elsewhere (not necessarily in our own ranks) being overlooked in favour of the dark side - and that is me really trying to take my blue-tinted specs off too!
161 Posted 11/10/2012 at 20:50:02
Hodgson picking Shelvey and Sterling is laughable but his idea of converting Gerrard into something could help England because Rodgers has converted him into an anonymous midfielder.
187 Posted 12/10/2012 at 08:06:09
As for the rest of the criticism, I bet we are right up there with teams who's youth system has made the most money through player sales over the past ten or fifteen years, our youth system has kept the club afloat at times with sales of Rooney,Ball,Rodwell,Jeffers as well as smaller sales such as Vaughan etc.
235 Posted 12/10/2012 at 15:04:07
Moyes needs to find much better youth coaches than for example Alan Stubbs. He also now needs to buy youngsters in the age group of 17-20 who have real top potential. The only player that Moyes has got that fits that category is George Green.
Liverpool have bought their youngsters for high fees, and we cannot afford to do it exactly as they do and nor do I want us to. You have to balance it, try and find top talent for less money. I do think we need to look outside of Britain if we are to find that balance between fee and top talent.
Finally, I agree with many on here who find reds youngsters overpriced and not very good at all. Kind of a follow-up of their senior transfer policy, spend huge amounts on shite players.
Moyes needs to be as active looking for top talented youngsters as he is when looking for his senior players. Currently Moyes is only looking to find first team players, but that will have to change in order to get something from our youth players in the future!
421 Posted 14/10/2012 at 00:47:30
For all we know, our youth players could be better than Liverpool's if given the same opportunities to shine. But that would involve breaking up a fairly unanimous starting eleven that has only lost once in the last 16 Premier League games. The kids have gotta wait their turn. It'll come soon enough. For now, they can learn a lot from just watching us do what we do.
453 Posted 14/10/2012 at 08:33:08
Secondly, youth for its own sake in the first team is not a good thing, you pick the best players, and ours are all good ages. Only Neville and Distin are genuinely old.
Thirdly, Liverpool have made it a policy to buy in youth players, they don't develop them all. They're picking them, but they're not winning games, so maybe they shouldn't be. We could pick four teenagers in every game if we wanted to. We probably wouldn't win as much.
I've voiced my thoughts on the Everton youth system in the past. It's decent, better than most, but a club in our financial position should be putting everything into having the very best youth system around. If we produced one first-team player a season, and sell two to lower division clubs, we'd have a steady source of income and players. With the whole of Merseyside and beyond as our breeding ground, this should be possible on a consistent basis. Baxter for example should have been given a contract, possibly loaned out, and then sold for money, even £500k would be worthwhile.
456 Posted 14/10/2012 at 08:43:12
Just two more things though, Baines was NOT released by Everton as a youth, he was released by Liverpool.
Also, Barkley is still only 18 now, I think a lot of Toffeewebbers need to remember that. I don't see the need to rush him, especially as we're performing extremely well and have been since February.
458 Posted 14/10/2012 at 09:13:05
I'm afraid he was released by us. But not because of a perceived lack of talent. His entire age group were let go as a 'cost-cutting' exercise. The group also included Joey Barton and Phil Jagielka. Saved us a few bob there!
Leighton then went on to sign schoolboy forms for the RS before being released by them too.
459 Posted 14/10/2012 at 09:23:19
475 Posted 14/10/2012 at 12:24:39
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