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271 Posted 10/03/2013 at 03:22:24
This past month, I've had a feeling that he would sign a new contract, for several reasons. After this match, I'm not so sure he will, but it is still where I would put my bet. The problem being, a lot of fans will have turned on him in the space of 90 minutes yesterday, and it could get worse if we end up slipping down the ladder, finishing below Them, WBA and/or Swansea. The question that has been put forward a lot lately is: who would have him now? He's probably not going to get a bigger club than Everton.
As an aside, I think that Moyes and all the players should be donating their match payment for this match to a local charity or to youth development in the area.
274 Posted 10/03/2013 at 03:44:27
For me there were a number of issues today. 3 stand out:
1) Starting Neville instead of Gibson. Any manager who makes that decision has lost it
2) Subbing Mirallas, our only threat, instead of Osman
3-And this is the fatal one... 3-0 down at half time and the team comes out and plays just as shit as the first half. What did he do in the dressing room, pat them on the back? If you cannot motivate professional footballers with a chance of Wembley to go out and recover the game... well, you're fucking useless
I've been called a red for the past 2 years by work colleagues because I want Moyes gone. It hurts a hell of a lot... but you know what, come Monday, it ain't Moyes fault... the ref was shit, the weather was poor, I swear Wigan cheated.
That's our problem at Everton. Fans who happily accept shit, because we always get behind the team. Big up Phil Neville... he wears the Blue, get behind him... these are the fans that will bury this club.
278 Posted 10/03/2013 at 03:53:37
However, Moyes has been in role for 11 years and has not won a trophy. For that reason alone it is time for him to find a fresh challenge and for us to find a new manager. My view of him is that he is a solid tactician but his natural caution and loyalty for certain players will ultimately prevent him from achieving the breakthrough he wants. In the big moments, he has froze and so have the team.
I think yesterday was a turning point for him in the same way as the defeat at Boro in the cup was for Walter Smith. The tipping point has been reached now where the majority of fans you talk to think it is time for him to go at the end of the season.
One final thing, the board should hang their heads in shame that they failed to invest in the squad during the transfer window. The one time when Moyes had a squad that with additional numbers could really challenge and they brought in nobody. Negredo bid on the final day? A total sham and insulting to our intelligence in the same way as Johnson used to try in the old days.
Time for a change but Moyes should leave with his head held high and all our thanks. The board will leave with a coat over their heads and a collective kick up the arse.
279 Posted 10/03/2013 at 04:22:50
281 Posted 10/03/2013 at 04:26:04
282 Posted 10/03/2013 at 04:29:01
This is his thinking, much like a lot of Everton fans:
"What has Moyes done wrong... 6th or 7th this year, next year, 6th or 7th, next year 6th to 8th, next year, maybe 7th... at least we're not facing relegation!"
And that's the problem with this club and our fans... grow a fucking pair of balls and let's not just settle.
283 Posted 10/03/2013 at 04:27:41
Sadly most managers (and players) leave under a cloud either because things have turned sour because of poor results or just the passage of time (witness Wenger's situation).
The comparison people make to Walter Smith's sacking are not terribly valid — at that time Everton were threatened with relegation and playing awful football with a team including several over the hill players (the latter point could be levelled at the current 1st team with several players the wrong side of 30 — or 35!).
Everyone feels sick after this last performance and the way Wigan outclassed us... but any decision on the managerial position should be reflected on properly by Moyes himself and the Club.
Arguments about the board failing to support Moyes financially hold some truth but we can't keep on spending what we don't have (witness existing debts), furthermore other clubs such as Swansea (and Wigan to a degree)operate well without huge outlays on signings and wages.
Personally, I would be surprised to see Moyes leave before the end of the season but the summer will be interesting.
285 Posted 10/03/2013 at 04:42:46
287 Posted 10/03/2013 at 04:38:42
Now I'm sure the manager doesn't tell them to go out and play crap and not find a team mate with a pass, and given our squad there's not much choice from the bench except untried and untrusted youth.
But I am now sure Moyes cannot take us any further and our board cannot support his and our ambitions so we need a new manager with new ideas. I doubt Moyes will quit after this performance but I think he should at least come out and say now that he's not going to sign a new contract. This would give the Club fair warning and time to find someone new, if he hasn't already; after all, they know his conditions and whether they are going to meet them.
321 Posted 10/03/2013 at 09:05:40
Regarding my comment regarding money, I realise that Moyes has been spending all the money we have on wages, although I don't think he's been given a lot more money than the managers who came before him. My problem with the board is that there has never seemed to be much in the way of ideas from them in terms of improving the club. They seem to have been waiting for something to turn up for far too long, rather than trying to make some gradual improvements to Goodison and the commercial side to the club.
Obviously Roman's idea regarding their match fees has a lot of merit. Sadly you can't see it happening, even if it might calm some of the animosity that we saw between the team and the fans yesterday (something that will fester if left unaddressed).
324 Posted 10/03/2013 at 09:17:44
369 Posted 10/03/2013 at 11:15:52
371 Posted 10/03/2013 at 10:51:47
378 Posted 10/03/2013 at 11:24:43
Taxi for Mr Moyes
384 Posted 10/03/2013 at 11:20:30
I detected a wry smile on his face when we came out that hat as evidence of his confidence in turning us over and was susbsequently dreading this tie ever since.
I seen enough of Wigan to realise they are a team of superior atheletes with a superior work rate and game plan and therefore was not the least bit shocked by this resut.
Everton needed to buy a commanding athelete in midfield and someone with pace and technique up front in the Jan window if where to kick on?
We didnt due to a lack of ambition from the boardand now our default position on relying Baines/Pinaeer of working the oricle has been well and truely rumbled.
I personally feel Moyes should resign on the premise that he has took us as far he can go both tactically and motivationally before it becomes too toxic.
The focus will then rightly be back where it needs to be-on the board.
Regarding a replacement, id have Martinez in a heart beat as he exudes steel belief in his methods and handles pressure a hell of a lot better than our curent incumbent.
388 Posted 10/03/2013 at 11:57:29
396 Posted 10/03/2013 at 11:45:30
Firstly yesterday is undoubtedly the end for the Moyes era. He will himself know that he has taken the team as far as it can go. The reliance on a core group of individuals which has created a team which on the whole is difficult to beat has once again been found out when it comes to the big occasion. I've never been in agreement with some of the more outlandish and personal criticism of Moyes as I believe he has been positive for Everton having created stability where we take our Premier League status as a given.
Now before I hear the cries of ' we are a big club and we should take it for granted', that was not the situation in the ten years leading to his arrival. He is managing a club whose current business model needs to make a profit on the sale of players to balance the books and his natural pragmatic approach has helped him do this. But he has hit his level and do we as supporters want to carry on with the situation. A change of management brings some risks but also the hope that a different approach may bring different results. I think it was Einstien who said insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Secondly yesterday saw the end of Phil Neville as a Premier League player. Again I disagree with the personal abuse he gets on here. I think he has also been a positive impact on the club as he has always been closely aligned with Moyes. But the argument is the same, the Moyes team and Neville in particular can take us no further. I know he is an honourable man, he also has not committed to a new contract stating he will know when the time is right to call it a day. He will have realised that in spades yesterday.
The final outcome from yesterday which is less positive is I think we will have seen the end of Fellaini at this club. Of course fans have the right to boo and the team deserved it yesterday but to single out one player for what was effectively a public humiliation I think was unfair. Yes he had a shocker but so did most of the team and considering he along with Baines has been our outstanding player this year. Now you could take the view is he earns good money, should man up and get over it but I suspect he will take it differently and will be heading to pastures new this summer.
400 Posted 10/03/2013 at 12:21:46
I wonder how these things work? Maybe his agent has already lined something up? I say this because the Fellaini interview on the official site was odd, and struck me as such before the match. (I'm not just being wise in retrospect.) He just didn't seem bothered about the cup match. He was almost embarrassed to have to go through the motions of saying that winning a trophy was important. It was all ultra-fake.
411 Posted 10/03/2013 at 12:43:15
I'm not being wise after the event. Yesterday's result was no big surprise for me - and not as negative as the Liverpool semi-final. It was after that particular match that I realised DM had taken us as far as he could.
My reaction to yesterday was that we should not sack him but that BK should withdraw the contract offer. That provides the message that this is EFC and we call the shots. Let DM see out his time if he wants to; if not then go on amicable terms.
This season has been another false dawn. Yes, DM has been a positive and stabilising influence but the media hype is ridiculous from the likes of fawning R5L pundits and the MoTD panel.
I would bet that DM's management career has already peaked. Good luck to him but it was not to be at EFC.
Use the remaining games to search for a new manager but also give the youth a chance. EFC is more than DM, Fellaini, Neville et al.
Tired of mediocrity. Get back to Nil Satis.
419 Posted 10/03/2013 at 12:30:45
421 Posted 10/03/2013 at 13:13:19
423 Posted 10/03/2013 at 12:48:55
There are many Clubs in Europe who don't have any of the resources that Everton have but manage to produce players with a first touch and can execute a ten yard pass with the correct weight on the ball.
Kev@400 I cant see why any top 4 Club would want Felliani he has had a good season but I don't see top sides using him as a targetman which is where he is a danger with his size and use of his chest. As a central midfielder he is very average and I don't see any top sides changing there passing styles to suit him.
428 Posted 10/03/2013 at 13:17:52
429 Posted 10/03/2013 at 13:15:16
When we gave our pitch to the potential developer, all eleven of my team were garbage, they behaved as though they had never before worked in this industry, they were ignorant, uncaring, embarrassing, as though the company means nothing to them.
Obviously, we were not awarded the tender. Afterwards, I was summoned to the Chairman, who said:
"You train these people, you tell them what to do, you motivate them, you have been in charge of them for over 11 years, yet you lost this easy tender?"
I, shamefully, replied: "Yes, Sir, it was just one of those days."
He, great man that he is, offered me a new 5 year contract and told me that I am the greatest thing that ever happened to HIS company.
433 Posted 10/03/2013 at 13:01:24
Rob I wrote the article about comparing Moyes's final days to Smith's, its not a like for like comparison but the aura of enough if enough and the two of them literally having run out of ideas with even the most ardent of supporters having had enough. Moyes' issues aren't the same as Smith's were but the end result is equally as damning, he's also holding the club to ransom waiting for a better offer from elsewhere, the contract should be torn up and he should be shown the door. This is not BKFC or MoyesFC and all parties need to part company and start again.
436 Posted 10/03/2013 at 13:41:31
446 Posted 10/03/2013 at 14:30:51
Hopefully not too serious, or it may have been he just wanted to get off the pitch!!!
450 Posted 10/03/2013 at 14:48:36
453 Posted 10/03/2013 at 14:52:23
Moyes won't walk and you know why, because no one wants him; he's a dithering idiot. I would also like to say Kenwright is as much to blame with all the shite he's feeds us, year-in, year-out, on potential buyers — oh, sorry... 'investors'.
454 Posted 10/03/2013 at 14:51:44
Know it goes against the consensus this weekend but I would hardly call that the killer question. Lots of players have improved in their time under Moyes (I don't really want to get into the whole "was it or wasn't it Moyes?" debate); that's why we have sold them on at a profit. The obvious example is Baines. Bought at £6m now worth £25m+.
The killer question is really do we see things getting any better than top 8 finishes and no silverware? I think most people are reaching the conclusion we won't and for most that means we need a change.
482 Posted 10/03/2013 at 15:33:05
I think we'd be doing well to get over 15m for him, for the simple fact that he's actually older than people think, and clubs know we can't ransom them for our players.
487 Posted 10/03/2013 at 15:51:40
What's £10m between friends, the point is still the same.
516 Posted 10/03/2013 at 16:17:25
If we fire him don't we have to pay up the rest of his contract? So there's the financial side to it. Also it may be more difficult to recruit a replacement mid season.
I may be wrong about this, but if he did go without any replacement until the summer, I feel it would leave the team completely adrift for the rest of the season, and, in my opinion, snuff out any of our, admittedly slim, hopes of reaching europe through league placing.
Now if I had any faith that we could have a new manager in place relatively quickly, then I could see the positives in Moyes going now, as it would give the new manager time to get into it before the transfer window opens etc... and make what are some really key decisions about how to take things forwards without all the usual suspects sniffing round our players. Otherwise if it was just a temporary promotion from within, would results really be that much better than under Moyes as the situation would not be markedly different.
I realise there are big risks to Moyes staying on until the end of the season. The amount of bile poured out by the fans at the team yesterday (and rightly so) was quite shocking, and there is the risk that with further bad results things could get worse. If that does happen then I think he will go early as the board will have little choice but to pay him off, and we'll have Round or someone to see things out until the summer.
On balance then, I think we may be better letting him see things out until the end of the season.
879 Posted 13/03/2013 at 17:33:37
882 Posted 13/03/2013 at 17:39:37
535 Posted 15/03/2013 at 18:38:03
You're probably right. Unfortunately while there's still hope of a European place, I'm tempted to stick with things are and start the search for the manager on the quiet. I'd hope the club were thinking the same. In fact I'd be pretty disappointed if they didn't have some sort of shortlist of candidates that they'd sounded out.
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