Clive Thomas

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For fans of a certain age (me) the one refereeing decision that still rankles is Clive Thomas 1977.  I have heard rumour and counter rumour down the years as to whether he ever admitted he got it wrong. 

On Thursday night I was listening to Tony Livesey on Radio 5. There was a very lively debate regarding goal line technology. One of the guests was Clive , albeit on the telephone. 

Now is my chance, I thought. It was a long shot, but I sent this text to the show;

Please ask Clive Thomas why did he disallow Bryan Hamilton's 1977 FACup Semi final goal for Everton against Liverpool. 

It's never too late, Clive, to admit you got it wrong. 

Neil, Wirral

I didnt think for one minute it would be read out. Then to my amazement as the interview ended and the news was coming on, Tony read it out. 

Thomas replied," They won't leave it alone will they. Offside or handball it was". He then muttered something else about "Hamilton knows that", and that was it. All over in ten seconds.  Tony Livesey knew where I was coming from. He even said theres nothing like a 35 year grudge. 

My only consolation was the whole thing got him slightly irate. Albeit for a few seconds. 

For those who haven't forgotten Maine Road '77 we still have no explanation as such. Let alone an apology. 

The wait for justice goes on. 

But it's nice to know Clive was put on the spot and WE will never leave it alone.!

If you want to hear it, its on BBC iplayer. Radio 5. Thursday 5th. Half an hour in. Tony Livesey show. 
Neil Smith, Wirral     Posted 06/07/2012 at 17:47:21

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Paul Washington
463 Posted 06/07/2012 at 19:28:08
I remember the day well. It pissed down, got soaked in Manc land, wasn't old enough to dry out in the ale houses!

Anyway ,the great man Bob Latchford tells a tale that after the match Thomas is reputed to have said to his linesmen, "let's get the story straight lads", to which one of the linesmen said, "No, you get your story straight "

The liner told Bob this.
Dave Wilson
464 Posted 06/07/2012 at 19:27:12
Well done for prolonging his shame Neil, the prick couldnt give an acceptable answer back then and he clearly still cant.

If he admited he had made a mistake, came out and said he was wrong, I think we`d have long since for given him.

Its every Evertonians duty to remind him of his glaring fuck up ( more to the point, his refusal to admit it) at every opportunity.

Call me bitter, because thats what I am

Barry Rathbone
473 Posted 06/07/2012 at 19:47:25
Worst ref in living memory so far up his own arse he could brush his teeth from the inside.
Blew for half time exactly as Brazil scored in a world cup game once, an arrogant attention seeking prick.

Walked past him once at Porthcawl, all I could do not to rip into him.

Well done for rattling him mate.

Mick Gallagher
474 Posted 06/07/2012 at 19:52:04
He also disallowed a goal by Bryan Hamilton in the 75 semi for Ipswich, so maybe its just Bryan Hamilton he hates. Still hate the gobshite and I wont let it rest till he is resting 6ft under make it 12 and use concrete not soil. BITTER YOU BET I AM
John Nugent
477 Posted 06/07/2012 at 19:57:10
Nice one Neil.

My Dad told me 'Clive Thomas is a twat' when I was a kid.

So it must be true.

John Crawley
482 Posted 06/07/2012 at 20:04:11
Well done Neil for putting the bastard on the spot. He fucked up but he isn't big enough to admit it.
Gavin Ramejkis
483 Posted 06/07/2012 at 20:13:19
As bent a ref as they come, he was a true twat then and still is, never forget that day
Andy Hegan
486 Posted 06/07/2012 at 20:23:39
He didn't have an answer then and he still hasn't. Too much of a coward to admit it.
Matt Traynor
491 Posted 06/07/2012 at 20:38:23
Neil - I heard that, and thought to myself, "I bet that's someone of TW. Wonder if we'll read about it later?"

Back in April, Clive spoke out about refereeing standards in this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17668965
I sent it to a friend of mine who was a Premier League referee, but retired over a decade ago (and we never had any problems or favour with him).

He shared a story that at his first Football League Referee's Conference, Clive gave a speech, during which he mentioned he never looked at Referee's Assessors reports, in fact he tore them up and consigned them to the bin as soon as they arrived.

I was told that he lost the respect of the entire room with that. With a couple of notable exceptions, I do think that refereeing standards are a whole lot better than the days of "The Book".

The one good thing he did for us was book the entire defensive wall of Ipswich Town for not retreating for a free-kick. Scared to tackle in case of a 2nd yellow, Everton went on to win 6-1 I think. Still a twat of the first order!

Andy Riley
492 Posted 06/07/2012 at 20:42:53
While we're at it lets not forget Collina, supposedly the best referee in the world, brought out of retirement to make sure there couldn't be five English teams in the Group stages of the Champions League in 2005. What was wrong with Dunc's clean header from an Arteta corner against Villareal?
Or the bloke, whose name escapes me, who never gave the Hansen hand ball on the line at Wembley in the 1984 League Cup Final!
Al Reddish
495 Posted 06/07/2012 at 21:02:57
Also dont forget Graham Poll (I think) who disallowed a 'goal by blowing the whistle for full time as the ball crossed the line when the shite's keeper twatted the ball at Don Hutchison and it bounced straight back past him. Then there are the numerous Carragher handballs, the two footed Gerrard attacks, Rodwell's sending off, Clattenburgs performance just after he had been on a jolly boys outing with Carragher and Gerrard and Hibbert getting sent off after Gerrard got the ref to change a yellow to a red card. Yes I am bitter!!!!!!!!!!
Gavin Ramejkis
496 Posted 06/07/2012 at 20:14:59
Andy the Handball Hansen ref was Alan Robinson and don't forget Graham Poll bastard he was not giving the Hutchison rebound from Westerveld
Matt Traynor
499 Posted 06/07/2012 at 21:19:46
I was in Paris for that Graham Poll derby, ruining what was supposed to be a romantic getaway by sticking my head in every cafe/bar for a score update. It was a Friday night if I remember.

Poll was interviewed right after the match on camera, as in seconds after, still dripping sweat. The only question (after a 0-0 draw) was "why did you disallow it?". He gave 3 or 4 different reasons and it was after that embarrassment that the FA stepped in and banned referees from being interviewed immediately after games to explain decisions.

To be fair (a little bit) to Poll, he did apologise for it - although I only heard it many years after - "I dropped a rickett" where the words he used. Yes Graham, you rather did.

John Ford
516 Posted 06/07/2012 at 23:30:15
Twat. This was our chance to get one over on them. Years of fuck all about to be ended. I'll never forget the feeling when the chance had gone...........hold a grudge like a lonely high court judge
Chris Leyland
521 Posted 06/07/2012 at 23:38:11
And don't forget Clattenberg and the infamous Goodison Derby.

By the way re: Clive Thomas saying it was "handball or offside" Which was it you cheating excuse for an official?

Kevin Sparke
523 Posted 06/07/2012 at 23:21:03
I must admit I've a well hidden soft spot for Clive Thomas - A peat bog in Westmeath next to Shergar.

Thomas has changed his story so many times, I think he's even convinced himself it was the right decision. At first he said it was offside, and he stuck to that until the camera's clearly illustrated that he was wrong - then he said something along the lines of 'Well, if it wasn't offside, it must have been handball'.

The truth is he disallowed it because he 'thought' there couldn't have been a legitimate goal scored from that position - but I'd bet he'd have 'thought' different if the scorer would have been wearing a red shirt.

It was 35 years ago, I was 17 at the time and unable to go the game as I was broke and working for a few quid digging foundation trenches for a mate's dad The three of us, two blues and a red listened to the game on a poxy little radio as we dug- the commentator was baffled 'How was that not given!?' I watched it on the TV that night and had the same thoughts.

It had a profound effect upon me - as since that Clive Thomas howler, I go into every derby match thinking 'I wonder how the ref will fuck up today'... the thing is, try as I might, I cannot ever think of an occasion when a really contentious decision in a derby game has not gone their way.

However, the times they are a'changing, as some poet once said - and if Liverpool continue their decline... and I see no reason why they won't... they'll find that this haunted aspect of a series of uncanny wrong headed decisions by different referees over 35 years, will come to a close.

Will we ever see justice? Now, that's a nice thought...

Charles Mills
525 Posted 06/07/2012 at 23:59:22
Gentlemen,
I empathise with all of the above comments and I was there!
I recently asked Joey Jones for his opinion and he replied that he was the nearest player to Hammy and without doubt it was a legitimate goal.
Credit for his honesty.
Roberto Birquet
539 Posted 07/07/2012 at 01:40:09
Andy492
Or the bloke, whose name escapes me, who never gave the Hansen hand ball on the line at Wembley in the 1984 League Cup Final!
---------------------
That twat was actually given the 86 Cup Final between Everton and Liverpool again. I couldn't believe it, and he did it again, refusing Sharpy a penalty in the first half for being kicked in the back as he was about to head into an empty net. He went flying, with the ball whistling over him. Bloody amazing!

How fcek was he even given the game.

Mick Davies
541 Posted 07/07/2012 at 03:01:35
I remember it so well. A teenager, sick of years of abuse by kopites and then that. Broke my fuckin heart and I thought 'Will I ever hate anybody as much as I hate that bastard?' Then Thatcher came along and until Collina it was a toss up, then we get Clattenburg and it becomes paranoia. And yes, I also can't wait for the day they cremate him. I just hope the coroner's a bluenose and they burn him alive
Paul McGinty
543 Posted 07/07/2012 at 03:21:27
I met Bryan Hamilton at the World Cup in the USA back in the 90s.
I asked him whether it hit his hand by accident or design. Looked me straight in the eye and said NO. I was in the Kippax St for the game. What was galling was that the decision spoiled what would have been a great fighting upset win.Jinky Jim Pearson had a blinder if I remember right and we deserved to win that game. If you look at Ray Clement's reaction after it went in....and he was a guy who appealed for everything...he had a look of total disappointment and resignation. It was a good goal. If anyone reads the Clive Thomas autobiography, lets say he does not lack confidence (thats being kind) so its no wonder he repeatedly refuses to admit he made a mistake. People might remember his first game back at Goodison a year or two later...he was met with a full on Goodison boo-fest. He tried to make light of it with a jokey bow, which only ramped up the abuse. Predictably we lost the replay to a stuffy Souness long ranger. Wheres my therapist. This thread has reopened old wounds.
Ray Roche
559 Posted 07/07/2012 at 08:13:25
That arrogant , self-publicising, self important, conceited, pompous, supercilious, sheepshagging Welsh twat went out of his way to be controversial. Why? Well, as soon as he retired , and here's a surprise, his book , Give A Little Whistle came out. (I don't mean out of the closet, it wasn't gay or anything) So all the controversy just added to the publicity and no doubt meant a few more sales. But just look at the cost to the honesty and integrity in football. Honesty and Integrity.Two words to which Thomas is something of a stranger. Let it go? I'd like to let go of that bastards feet after dangling him over the egde of the Eiffel Tower.
Martin Berry
563 Posted 07/07/2012 at 08:41:15
Remember as a young sixteen year old lad sitting by the radio then running around the room screaming like a girl only to find out it was disallowed. Thomas you total twat.
Michael Coffey
569 Posted 07/07/2012 at 09:15:08
For those over, errm, fifty, there is an interesting trip down Euro memory lane on the BBC website. It’s worth a look just to remember

1. Loon pants
2. Just how dirty a player Terry Yorath was
3. That players were once perfectly capable of carrying on with the game and dodging flying beer cans at the same time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17787913

However, what really stopped me in my tracks was the interview with Clive Thomas, Proof, if ever Evertonians needed it, that for him a game really wasn’t a game unless he was the star. Talking of the 1976 semi between Czechoslovakia and Holland:
"I had the impression as the second half wore on that the Dutch thought they were bigger than the game, and that they were bigger than you. They could do what they liked. That wasn't my game of football.
"Johan Cruyff was one of the worst, but then he always had been. You had to nail him right at the very beginning, because if he knew that he had control of you then you had had it. I saw too many matches where Cruyff had control of referees."

Is Thomas disappointed that the Welsh footballers of his generation never got to experience the 1976 finals in Yugoslavia, as he did?

"It was a shame Wales didn't get there. But I got to the semi-finals because they didn't," he explained.
"Talk about Ryan Giggs, Ian Rush, Mark Hughes, all of them. Not one of them have had what I had. I've been to the World Cup and to the European Cup. None of them have gone to a finals."

The most successful Welsh footballer of all time, and bigger than Cruyff... step forward Clive Thomas.

Martin Berry
576 Posted 07/07/2012 at 10:11:59
I refer to my previous comment. Total twat.
Tony I'Anson
584 Posted 07/07/2012 at 11:06:18
There was an article about the man on here recently that referred to this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17668965 - how ironic.

That decision is my first ever Everton memory. I was 7 and my dad was going mental at the Radio Rentals TV that nearly ended up in the garden.

It was the first lesson in life that life is not fair. In fact, it's quite the opposite most of the time and we have to get on with it, but doesn't make the sense of injustice any easier. Maybe send Thomas, Collina and Clattenburg an open invitation to the Dark House for a debate?

Thomas Windsor
591 Posted 07/07/2012 at 11:16:19
I was at the game. Everton played really well that day and won the game 3-2. We was robbed and they say there is plenty of Evertonians in Wales... well you lucky buggers had one on the pitch, cheats.
Keith Glazzard
594 Posted 07/07/2012 at 11:00:19
Thirty-five years, and you still can't your story straight Clive. But then again, "straight' never had anything to to do with it. Bent?

Yes, Marcus. Collina said that he was committing a foul when Dunc scored. In fact, he was being held, ie being fouled. And Collina must have been the only person in the stadium who wasn't looking at Ferguson if he saw anything like that. Not long after, he was suspended for financial irregularities (to do with a sponsorship deal I think). I'm fairly sure that ours was the last game Collina reffed.

Speaking of which, has Clattenberg reffed us since? And he was suspended for matters financial - is a pattern emerging? One interesting follow-on from that can of worms was the conduct of the FA. The threat to bring action against Moyes for his comments was postponed, and then withdrawn. How often does that happen?

I wonder if he, and others, heard a linesman say to the odious Clattenberg -'no Mark, YOU get your story straight'? (Thanks for that story Paul @463)

Dave Charles
597 Posted 07/07/2012 at 11:17:14
It still brings back bitter memories and should never be forgotten. I read Mike Lyons in a paper recently and he said, with Thomas, it was always 'The Clive Thomas Show' when he was the ref. I suppose with it being a semi and televised for Saturday night, Mike may have a point.

I was there and in an interview we heard on the car radio coming home, Thomas said an 'infringement occured'. When asked to be more precise about the infringement, he repeated an 'infringement occured'. What a twat.

Anyway, thank you Neil for doing what you done. I thought the twat had died years ago. I won't say what I really feel about Thomas but there will be no sympathy from me when he does go.

Tom Bowers
614 Posted 07/07/2012 at 13:22:25
Bad memories indeed. Everton have never gotten the benefit of poor refereeing decisions especially against Redshite. Whilst some referees are very consistant some are just downright awful and lack the guts to make important calls particularly in the box even more prevalent today with all the shirt pulling etc.

The goal line officials have the same attitude-say nothing. They are a waste of space and money. Thank God we won the 1966 cup-final despite a clanger by Butcher Jack Taylor in not giving a penalty when Alex Young was clearly brought down by Springett.

The least said about Clive Thomas the better!!!
Steve Green
616 Posted 07/07/2012 at 13:43:27
Dave @#597, that's what he came out with. When interviewed he said it was handball. The interviewer - can't recall who but full marks to him - said that replays showed it wasn't handball. Thomas Twat then, incredibly, said it was offside. Again put right by the interviewer, he got a bit angry and would only repeat 'It was an infringement of the rules of the Football Association'. When pushed to expand he would add no further comment. Total Twat who ruined this 17 year old's life - totally.
Keith Glazzard
621 Posted 07/07/2012 at 14:22:26
I'm sure I remember him saying something like 'just look at it on the tv tonight and you'll know why I made my decision' by way of refusing to say why he ruled the goal out. That might even have been part of the MotD coverage.

We were there that day, and I never want to be as wet again. Why the Kippax didn't collapse when Hamilton scored I will never know. It had felt distinctly wobbly a few times that afternoon already.

John Steadman
634 Posted 07/07/2012 at 16:19:02
I was also there that day, when that cheating lying devious bastard Thomas ruled the Bryan Hamilton goal out, at that time I used to live next door to Bryan and I have asked him about it, and I can tell you as much as the team tried to get a satisfactory answer from Thomas, he would have none of it. We all knew at the time (kopites as well) that there was nothing wrong with the goal.

Just the first of many jubious decisions which have been given against us in the Derby and never have been justifiably explained, I believe there is a witch hunt by the F.A against us in these games, to never give us the run of the ball, or the correct decisions. To many to just be coincidence.

Maybe with Hawkeye coming into the game we might get one decision correct or will it mysteriously go on the blink and down to the referee`s decision again.

Changing the subject slightly, a number of years ago I was at Highbury on a none matchday, and down stairs in the office part of the stadium there was a throng of people in the corner, I asked one of the office girl`s what was going on? She informed me that Emlyn Hughes was going to give a guided tour to some visitors. I thought too good a chance to miss, so I joined the queue and after a while I eventually got to the front and introduced myself to him as an Evertonian, he immediately said oh no! and he knew what was coming next. Did he regret making that statement from the Town hall balcony, he said that he did and that us Bluenoses NEVER let him forget about it. He apologised and said that he was drunk. I wonder what happened to my I Hate Emlyn Hughes badge? Yes, we were so irrate.

I feel that we have a obligation to let these people know that we have long memories and do not forget easily.... THEY CALL US BITTER — YOU BET!!!!! COYB

Matt Traynor
638 Posted 07/07/2012 at 17:01:44
Keith #594, I believe Clattenburg did ref us last season, away, Villa if I recall. I would be amazed if he gets a game at Goodison anytime soon.
Ray Roche
639 Posted 07/07/2012 at 17:01:45
John, you mention Emlyn Hughes, in the early 70's I used to play badminton with my wife and some others, including Hughes, in Seel Rd, Huyton. In those days Hughes was a decent bloke and enjoyed a bit of banter. I was really disappointed in him when he came out with his ridiculous "Everton are tragic " song. Maybe he was pissed. Seemed out of character to the bloke we knew.
Mike Powell
641 Posted 07/07/2012 at 16:50:52
Clive Thomas is a cheating twat along with that dirty rednose cheat Clattenburg but don't forget: they are always the victims. It's spoilt my day now talking about them cheating bastards. Clattenburg should by banned for life
David Prentice
645 Posted 07/07/2012 at 17:19:14
I still get so much grief for refusing to let this lie ... but this is exactly why I can't. It was a flagrant flouting of the laws – cheating if you like, and still the pompous, arrogant, Welsh twat can't admit he was wrong.

If he simply had the grace to stand up and admit he got it wrong – which TV replays comprehensively proved he did – we could move on. Sad, disappointed, but accepting that a man made an honest mistake. Sadly, he will never do that.

Remember that excellent Danny Baker series? Thought it was Match of the 80s, but maybe it was 70s?? Either way, Emlyn Hughes was interviewed in one episode and giggled away that Liverpool had got away with it in that semi-final because Clive Thomas disallowed an Everton winner and then admitted he'd got it wrong.

The following week there was a retraction at the end of the programme. Something along the lines of "Clive Thomas has contacted us and asked us to point out he did not admit to making a mistake!"

Talk about gobsmacked.

That was his opportunity to put the record straight. Like Graham Poll did in his book about the Hutchison disallowed goal (basically he panicked, blew the final whistle and pretended time was up).

You've given him that opportunity again Neil. But he'll never take it.

And if no-one understands why it's so important, Blues of a certain age had been given a childhood from hell with Liverpool winning absolutely everything (including seven years unbeaten in derbies – a lifetime when you're a schoolboy). The year they won the European Cup for the first time there were Reds mates outside the house chanting "Prenny show us your scarf!" It was a tortured time. So this was the big chance to tilt the balance ever so slightly back.

The players took their chance. The fans celebrated wildly. But Thomas cheated us out of it.

That's why we'll never let it lie. And why Thomas should be constantly reminded of his cheating.

Horrible, horrible man. Thoroughly endorse your views, Dave Charles.

Tony Marsh
650 Posted 07/07/2012 at 17:53:37
That decision by Clive Thomas at Maine Rd was the beggining of Everton FCs real decline and the emergence of the Redshite as the powerhouse of English football. If that goal is given and we go to the Final, which was much more prestegious back then, who knows what would've happened in the years to come?

Them RS twats ruined my childhood and Thomas helped them do it, the cheating twat. I still have nightmares about it and will take it to the grave with me.
Keith Glazzard
652 Posted 07/07/2012 at 17:34:19
Matt - you're right. I was sure Clattenberg hadn't been to GP, and surely never will again - a policing nightmare!

Thomas? For me, I'm glad that he has never apologised. You make a mistake, you apologise. He didn't make a mistake. He made a deliberate choice to swing the tie back to the RS. And the fact that he hasn't apologised over the years shows this to be true.

And, I would argue, its evidence of a nagging problem deep down in his mental state. He's a was-been (no longer a has-been, that is). The medals, the stories to tell of a glorious career - but here's one story he'll never tell. 'And you know, the buggers thought they'd won it, but I sorted them out'.

Once again Neil, congratulations for catching up with him and reminding him of what a contemptible little man he actually is, and always has been.

Barry Rathbone
654 Posted 07/07/2012 at 18:08:18
I did post earlier but still feel the need to call Clive Thomas a twat.

CLIVE THOMAS YOU TWAT!

John Keating
658 Posted 07/07/2012 at 18:54:29
I might be wrong but I think that prick Poll "said" he blew the whistle before the ball crossed the line but numerous replays showed he was another lying bastard and never blew !
Phil Bellis
659 Posted 07/07/2012 at 18:49:36
Steve Green
That's the comment I remember the fuckwit coming out with

I was in the left hand side of the Kippax that day, dodging coins thrown by our loveable neighbours, and it remains the biggest post-celebration come down I've ever experienced

Also, don't know if Dave Prentice has heard this one but I read that at a sports forum a Blue spoke to one of the linesmen who officated that day and was told that Thomas's first words to the linesmen in the dressing room were "right lads, we've got to get our story straight"

Absolute bastard

Keith Glazzard
662 Posted 07/07/2012 at 19:20:46
Phil - go back to Paul Washington right at the top of the thread.
Tom Evans
665 Posted 07/07/2012 at 20:13:39
How many recall Clive Thomas next game at Goodison. Yes, unlike the cowardly Clattenberg, Thomas actually reffed at least one game that I recall.

That was a cup game against Villa. Two things I remember vividly. The first being the whistles of derision towards him when he stepped onto the pitch and then his name being announced. I have never, even to this day, heard so much abuse.

The second thing was that we got absolutely every 50/50 decision in our favour. The prick even giving us a soft penalty award for the first goal I seem to remember.
David Prentice
666 Posted 07/07/2012 at 20:22:11
I have heard that 'let's get our story straight' tale Phil. Not sure where I heard it but I'd definitely read it before.

There's a great tale from a Shareholders Assn meeting years later when Thomas was bizarrely invited to Goodison to speak.

He stood up. Silence. Delivered a 20 minute talk. Absolute silence.

Questions were asked from the floor and one hand flew straight up.
It wasn't what Thomas had expected.

"Mr Thomas?" asked the fan. "Why didn't Hitler bomb Treorchy first!"
(Treorchy being Thomas' birth town)
Cue Thunderous applause and the Chairman, Bill Scott, heard to murmur "Good question!"

I was at that Aston Villa game when Thomas took a Blues match for the first time after the semi-final. It was an FA Cup tie and the booing when he walked out was merciless.

He tried to make a joke by putting his hands over his ears and walk back down the tunnel, but the booing intensified.

He sent off Villa's Leighton Phillips, gave us a penalty and we won 4-1.

I later heard him talk about that day and say he punctured the animosity with his "little joke," claiming the crowd laughed. Once again convincing himself something happened which didn't.

Total, total twat.

Phil Bellis
669 Posted 07/07/2012 at 21:00:00
Cheers Keith...my scanner mode is rubbish!

Just to show how times have changed, 5 of us, workmates, 3 Blue, 2 reds, travelled in the same car, blue and red scarves hanging from the windows

We stopped for a pint in a pub off Princes Way(?) and Mancs were coming in from the other rooms to stare at us - one finally approached us and asked "are you all going to the semi?"

The locals couldn't believe it
Wouldn't dream of it, now

Steve Green
685 Posted 07/07/2012 at 23:22:39
Phil, 'it remains the biggest post-celebration come down I've ever experienced'. Agreed, but only jointly, alongside the time another total twat jumped up on the front row of the main stand Gwladys St end and had us all believing that Chelsea had taken the lead against the RS as we were thrashing Arsenal - Lineker suddenly finding the boots he had lost at Oxford.
A quite deflating moment when we later became aware that Queen Kenny had actually volleyed them ahead.
I hate twats!
Ian Pilkington
687 Posted 07/07/2012 at 23:30:37
Thomas's unconvincing reply surely proves what everyone at Maine Road knew that day – Everton had been dealt one of the worst ever refereeing errors. However I always felt that Thomas was incompetent rather than bent. He famously once blew the half-time whistle just as Brazil were scoring a goal from a corner in a World Cup match. He was certainly one of the most consistently poor referees I can ever remember.

On the other hand I believe Collina – who unexpectedly retired immediately afterwards – took a brown envelope from Villarreal's tile manufacturing magnate owner to ensure we lost. Or perhaps Uefa simply had to make sure only four English teams would play in the Champions League after all, with the totally undeserved inclusion of the RS.
Derek Thomas
727 Posted 08/07/2012 at 08:37:47
After exhaustive research on ancestry.com he's no relative of mine thank God. I was there, I couldn't see why then, nor on MotD later as some one said, Ray (I am a RS and I claim for every thing) Clemence's face said it all, totallly dispondent.

I recently came across him (Thomas) on YouTube with Skinner and Badeil, what an arsehole. Mick Lyons and others have it right... There's no show without punch.

Dave Charles
739 Posted 08/07/2012 at 09:56:58
Steve Green 685. We were thrashing Southampton that day. Who ever said they were getting beat must still feel a right nob to this day.
David Booth
765 Posted 08/07/2012 at 14:02:14
John Steadman (634): whoah, a blast from the past there with your mention of the 'I hate Emlyn Hughes' badge.

I was a teenager at college in Manchester at the time and was so incensed with his unforgivably-unsporting arrogance that I had 1,000 made. I sold nearly all of them in a single game and ended up having another 1,000 made, which went equally as quickly.

Later, an article appeared in the Football Echo, depicting them as 'The small minded badge of shame' and asking who the 'parasites' who produced them were and calling for them to be identified!

Little did they know it was an 18 year old student with a paper round!

I still have a dozen left, which I kept as souvenirs. Must be a collector's item by now?

And I still have no regrets about producing them. He was the ultimate Gobshite and deserves no respect because he has now passed away.

Clive Thomas should be buried next to him. Alive preferably.

David Booth
767 Posted 08/07/2012 at 14:28:25
Speaking of the squeaky-voiced one, just discovered he has a son, named Emlyn Junior and a daughter called Emma Lynn (according to Wikipedia).

Ego-maniac. Moi?

Derek Wadeson
773 Posted 08/07/2012 at 15:53:27
One of the linesmen Colin Seel at the semi-final against Liverpool was interviewed in the NotW years later in an article about dubious decisions. He stated that when they got back to the dressing room they asked Clive Thomas why he disallowed the goal? "Offside" he said, "No he wasn't" said Colin Seel, "Well it could've been handball, so let's call it an infringement then".

I kept a photocopy of the article for years and passed it on to the fanzine When Skies Are Grey for them to print. Colin Seel has since passed away; like most bitter blues, I wish it was Clive Thomas instead.
Mike Hughes
777 Posted 08/07/2012 at 16:18:49
After 35 years, it would be perfectly reasonable to forgive and forget. However, Clive Thomas should be hung up by his bollocks and fed dog shit for the rest of his days. And so should any offspring that he's spawned.
Barry Thompson
783 Posted 08/07/2012 at 17:31:53
Interesting piece that seems to concur with the general comments above. Doesn't quite call Thomas a twat but he was given their lifetime achievement award.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/940-September-2008/1088-ropey-refs

Steve Green
784 Posted 08/07/2012 at 17:39:33
Dave Charles @ #739, sorry yes, it was Southampton. Thrashing Arsenal six was another great day that same season. Still hating twats.
Guy Hastings
796 Posted 08/07/2012 at 21:52:46
The way I heard it, CT aid that he didn't believe Hamilton had the skill to control the ball like that without using his hand, so handball it was.
Mike Norris
812 Posted 08/07/2012 at 23:34:54
This is me memory of that fateful day, listening to the radio commentary. When the second equaliser goes in I am jumping up and. Down with excitement. When that dies down within a short period we go 3 2 up as Hamilton scores. At this point I run out the front door and am giving it big up yours signs in the street. Then I get back inside to hear tha goal been disallowed. We lose the replay 3 0 and I recall seeing Emlyn Hughes on telly pissed as a fart saying Liverpool are magic Everton are tragic, it's all a haze. All I can say in hindsight is who is the biggest twat Hughes or Thomas. It's a tough call but then Thomas did disallow a goal in the world cup cos time ran out between a corner and a bullet header hitting the back of the net so my vote goes to him.
Kevin Sparke
831 Posted 09/07/2012 at 09:10:35
Another Clive Thomas memory evoked is the 1981 FA Cup derby at Goodison; it on YouTube. Thomas gave Liverpool most of the 50/50s that day and tried to convince the linesman that our opening goal was illegal (Eastoe cannon onto Avi Cohen via the goalkeeper or post and into the net).

He failed to send off Jimmy Case for an assault on our goalkeeper - but to his credit he also failed to send off Mike Lyons for dancing all over Case's legs. If you watch the clip - note the Liverpool player Souness refereeing the game with Thomas after the Case incident, insisting he sends Lyons off... some things never change.

Dave Charles
838 Posted 09/07/2012 at 09:48:15
Kevin 831. Yes, I remember Souness running his studs down the back of Mick Lyons leg. He done it as Lyons had his back to him and then ran off as Lyons confronted him. Some hardman he was.
Michael Brien
864 Posted 09/07/2012 at 12:59:14
I was at the Semi Final at Maine Road - if you look at the reaction of the Liverpool players they all thought it was a goal. Our very next FA Cup tie was at Goodison - in January 1978, the 3rd Round vs Aston Villa - and the Ref a certain Mr C Thomas received the welcome from the Goodison park crowd that he deserved.

I have no doubt that Bryan Hamilton scored a goal - yes hardly a classic goal - but nonetheless a goal. Had Mr Thomas had the decency to admit that he had made a mistake then I would have forgiven him. However he has show no signs at all of doing that . And he has the nerve to say that " they wont let it go" Well admit that you made a mistake. The fact that Clive Thomas said " it was either handball or offside" shows that he can't even be sure !!!!!

How fitting it was that in the 1978 World Cup he showed the wider footballing world his ineptitude. I went to my 1st Everton match in 1964 and in 48 years of watching football Clive Thomas is one of the most arrogant referees I have seen. What he has to be arrogant about is beyond me as he is also one of the most incompetent referees in any sport that I have seen.

Richard Styles
025 Posted 10/07/2012 at 12:20:58
When I asked him years ago, he just said, "You must be an Everton Supporter, I can't remember if it was handball or Offside... You have to move on to your next game, I can't remember every decision..."

I said, "I bet you had fucking nightmares about that game ever since, because you were shitting yourself in case someone found out you took a bung."

His face went bright red, he turned and said, "I am not even going to reply to that!"
Andy Meighan
062 Posted 10/07/2012 at 16:10:58
Paul (#543) — we didn't lose the replay to a Souness long-ranger... we got absolutely walloped 3-0. The game you're referring to was the Milk Cup Final Replay, also at Maine Road... but anyway, I digress.

How could anyone Blue of a certain age ever forget that day? We were massive underdogs but were superb, culminating in a 3-2 win — or at least that's what most of us in the ground thought... until that dirty vile robbing arrogant smug prick came along and took it all away from us — just like that!!!

Not for handball; not for offside — just because he could! You've only got to read the comments on here about him to know what a twat he is. He'll never ever be forgiven by us... never! I hope the bastard is sitting there every night, pissing and shitting himself, and then dies a truly horrible slow death, gasping for every breath.

If I ever see you, I'll kick the walking stick from underneath you, then you'll know how I felt on that Saturday at Maine Road.
Brian Garside
114 Posted 10/07/2012 at 20:43:05
I too was standing on the Kippax that day.
Bemusment stays with me still today as with the rest of us.
For me it is not the Eifel Tower which would be appropriate,although the height fakter is tempting,but I believe that there is a bridge in London...............!
Let him be joined by Clatenberg, Collina etc
Cameron White
131 Posted 10/07/2012 at 23:05:55
Couldn't agree more with the comments about Thomas and THAT decision but it's usually forgotten that he had a big influence on the replay as well. This quote is from the book 'Everton in the 1970s'

"...despite universal criticism of his display on Saturday, Clive Thomas was again the referee and once again he played a crucial role in the outcome. Thirty tense and hard-fought minutes had passed when Ray Kennedy lobbed a harmless ball into the Everton box, Mike Pejic climbed above David Johnson to head clear but, to everyone’s amazement, Mr Thomas pointed to the penalty spot. While it was clear that Pejic, in rising above Johnson, placed his arms on the striker’s shoulders, it’s a moot point whether Johnson attempted to jump or whether he deliberately backed into Pejic. Certainly, he never appealed and it was the sort of incident that occurs several times in every game, normally being ignored completely or punished by a free-kick either way, usually when it takes place just outside the box. Mr Thomas perhaps saw the incident as the ideal opportunity to show that he would not be influenced by all the criticism he had received since the first game. Inevitably, Phil Neal stroked the penalty home to give Liverpool a vital advantage."

Two late goals as Everton chased an equaliser made the score an emphatic 3-0 but they wouldn't have been chasing the game but for Thomas's decision.

Mike Hughes
137 Posted 10/07/2012 at 23:17:51
10 years old. Hahnemann Road, Walton. Radio on. Equalised then went ahead. Absolute joy. Then that disallowed goal.

That day is a scar on my memory alongside the Keeley derby match, the 90s relegation battles, Istan-twatting-bul.

Burn in hell, CT, you gobshite.

Eugene Ruane
143 Posted 10/07/2012 at 23:40:05
I think sometimes people go a little overboard with these type of things.

For me, you have to remember the incident took place 35 years ago.

You also have to remember we all make mistakes.

So given this, all I would say is in my opinion, Thomas is a weasel-faced, scrawny, head-too-big-for-his-body, "it's all about me" self-important, piece of shit, probably a Mason, probably a Tory, fucking useless, hopeless, twatting, shitbag, shithouse, shit-for-brains.........CHEAT!!!!!

And leave it at that.

(otherwise these things can fester)

Keith Glazzard
150 Posted 11/07/2012 at 00:28:10
Eugene - funny you should mention that. On another thread I was just wondering if Freemasonry had anything at all to do with odd things that happen in football. It always has in police forces and town hall politics - it is alleged.

And refs like Thomas always seem to me to be like the people I have known to be members of 'the craft', as I believe they like to call themselves (purely so that they can do good works of course). Better than thou, arrogant bastards with very high opinions of themselves based on little evidence to support their conclusion.

Betcha he is.

Eugene Ruane
260 Posted 11/07/2012 at 16:20:39
Keith (150) - I reckon you're spot on.

I bet the onion-headed fucker has had his trouser leg rolled up more times than you've had hot curry.

Phil Roberts
291 Posted 11/07/2012 at 19:13:03
Us Blues always have these times when we were robbed by lousy decisions, Thomas, Milk Cup 84, Clattenburg, Rodwell's tackle. . .

Can any of us recall any incident where a Liverpool fan says "yeah but we lost because x favoured you". I can't.

Says it all.

Michael Brien
445 Posted 12/07/2012 at 14:24:26
Eugene(143) - well said !!!!

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