We have seen an alarming drop in form from Steven Pienaar these last few weeks. There was the idiotic sending off against QPR and a downward dip in performance levels since his return.
This is the one area of management Moyes never seems to get quite right. He persists with players who are clearly out of form, not just for a few games either. Cahill always started if fit, no matter how he played.
I say put Pienaar on the bench against Arsenal, and start with Oviedo in front of Baines.
If a players know he will always start, even if playing poorly — how can you expect 100% effort from these players?
We cannot afford to turn over possession regularly to a good passing side, and Pienaar has been too sloppy with the ball lately.
Over to you, Mr Moyes.
Kevin Tully, Posted 27/11/2012 at 14:22:40
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
473 Posted 27/11/2012 at 15:29:58
He also came out on Twitter on Saturday night and apologised to the fans about the game and his recent performances. I think himself knows he's not been playing well. Different to the boring arl' rallying crys of Neville and Distin on there.
You say drop him, but I look at the subs bench and don't see anyone better. OK, with Fellaini and Mirallas coming back, maybe, but at the moment, I'd keep him in. As they say class is permanent, form is temporary.
489 Posted 27/11/2012 at 16:31:30
492 Posted 27/11/2012 at 16:37:57
496 Posted 27/11/2012 at 16:49:28
501 Posted 27/11/2012 at 17:08:35
Having said that, he is a creative influence in midfield - its difficult to balance keeping him happy and playing with bringing in other players who might perform better on a given day.
503 Posted 27/11/2012 at 17:08:35
Having said that, he is a creative influence in midfield — it's difficult to balance keeping him happy and playing with bringing in other players who might perform better on a given day.
522 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:04:18
523 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:06:24
533 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:23:24
536 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:27:10
537 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:32:32
538 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:14:13
I have a feeling that the "clamour" that brought him back from Spurs has not done him any favours. From a position at Spurs where he was classed as pretty well superfluous to requirements and well down the midfield pecking order (Mind you, did they not have Modric/Bale etc?) he has returned to Everton seemingly as a "big fish" because all and sundry were desperate to bring him back. He benefits from the genuine lack of competition in key areas at the club; competition that keeps players sharp, focussed and committed.
The other classic example of this at the moment of course is Howard. I have often wondered why Pienaar has rarely received the constant negativity that for instance Osman has had to endure over the years. Both are gifted technical players with glaring weaknesses – one of which in the case of Pienaar is a woefully poor return when it comes to actually putting the ball in the net.
He needs to accept the responsibilities of being one of the "senior" players in the squad and buckle down to getting his act together or Mr Moyes should start to exert some real discipline and shake some of these senior players up, put them on the bench and have some faith in the likes of Oviedo and hopefully Barkley etc.
545 Posted 27/11/2012 at 18:45:16
548 Posted 27/11/2012 at 19:00:32
551 Posted 27/11/2012 at 19:09:10
561 Posted 27/11/2012 at 19:17:19
On Wednesday, Pienaar will be on the left, Mirallas on the right, Hibbert will be at right back. Fellaini obviously back in but maybe in midfield and pushing Osman further forward behind Jelavic. Jags reverting to Centre Back instead of Heitinga.
The word is a deal is close with out of contract Craig Gordon and the Norwegian centre back Forren to have a medical at Goodison very soon.
Moyes knows our shortfalls and no doubt is aware that he made mistakes in not reacting to Heitinga's display.
Next three games will see Everton at their best, then we'll see how we measure up regarding top four aspirations.
569 Posted 27/11/2012 at 20:02:20
572 Posted 27/11/2012 at 20:15:05
If he's fit he plays, simples.
573 Posted 27/11/2012 at 20:15:55
I agree with you that Oviedo does at least provide depth where we have none for other places. Equally I wouldn't after a few good games rely on Oviedo to repeat that sort of level against Arsenal; he might or he might not – there is no guarantee if he starts he'll offer more than Pienaar.
Equally, I think Pienaar is a victim of his own high standards. He plays usually immaculately anywhere across the three supporting Jelavic and even at times in the midfield two and is often our best player. He certainly was at the end of last season/start of this one. He's at his best though when he's ahead of Pienaar able to cut in on the left.
Fellaini looks bad anywhere else on the pitch, no one would expect Jelavic to be able to play out wide or Osman on the wing (apart from Moyes!), yet Pienaar is expected to perform wherever he plays. For me he's still one of our best players, an integral cog of the team and it would be taking a massive risk to drop him in such a big game.
577 Posted 27/11/2012 at 20:51:30
592 Posted 27/11/2012 at 21:42:06
601 Posted 28/11/2012 at 07:02:50
We do not have the playing resources of other teams and that is why we very seldom play a game without our best eleven starting.
The game against Leeds showed our lack of top class replacements; we cannot afford rotation or resting of first team players.
Our bench is proof as last week it was really threadbare and reminiscent of a few years ago when it looked like a creche.
I wish we went back to just one sub a game as the seven-man benches with three subs available is playing into the hands of the big clubs who have top class cover for every position. Man Utd can start with Rooney and Van Persie and bring on Hernandes and Welbeck if needed.
There is absolutely no comparison so I'm afraid that DM is playing with far less cards than the opposition!!
602 Posted 27/11/2012 at 22:41:22
And Fellaini just gets better and better as his hair gets bigger and bigger. Surely not just a coincidence?!
621 Posted 28/11/2012 at 05:29:53
People are all too quick to slate Pienaar's recent form but at least he takes responsibility for his form etc. He tweeted about his poor form; apologising to the fans and he doesn't hide in the game – unlike a number of our other players. Others are doing less but they get a free pass. In spite of his poor form, Pienaar continues to be positive on the pitch and make things happen.
He's currently the fourth most creative players in the Premier League. Not bad for someone who deserves to be benched. Oviedo played well at the weekend but removing Pienaar for him on the back of one decent showing against Norwich is a bit much. Also, we all know Moyes is highly unlikely to do something like that anyway.
Dropping Pienaar would also mean the end of the Baines-Pienaar partnership; another poor move. They account for 85 of Everton's 196 chances created this season – that's a whopping 43% of Everton's chances this season.
I don't agree with this made up notion that's he wasteful in possession either. He tries to be creative so there is obviously a greater tendency to concede possession through the greater risk taken. However, despite that, he recorded an 82% passing accuracy against Norwich. Only Osman (88%), Baines (87%) and Naismith bettered that. Finally, no Everton player topped his 2 chances created either.
Overall, his passing accuracy for this season is 82% and more than stands up against the rest of the squad. The South African is also tied with Fellaini in terms of league assists this season (3).
Pienaar is trying to play his way through an indifferent run but at least he is willing to do so. A number of our team disappear up their own arse when they're having a bad game. Pienaar deserves credit for still trying to make things happen, even though he isn't at the top of his game.
Fans should lay off and actually look a little closer at those who skip through games unnoticed and contribute very little. (Osman's second half against Norwich being a prime example; you wouldn't have even known he was there.)
622 Posted 28/11/2012 at 05:42:35
626 Posted 28/11/2012 at 06:28:13
Hopefully Kev will be fit, Gibson will be back to mop up, and we will get Hibbert playing like he was at the end of last season.
674 Posted 28/11/2012 at 12:23:14
There appears to be some disharmony in a few players and I wonder if there is something unsettling the squad.
I wouldn't drop him just yet but I feel he needs to step up and earn his place. He is an exciting, quick player with good feet; however, he is also extremely wasteful and can fall a little to easily at times. I would rather have him in the team tonight than Arteta though
680 Posted 28/11/2012 at 13:41:56
If he is that good he should not need the others to be "on fire" ... he should be able to play to a high standard with other good players being out of the side.
683 Posted 28/11/2012 at 14:05:03
I think the guy just needs a week off.
687 Posted 28/11/2012 at 14:52:56
691 Posted 28/11/2012 at 15:16:47
No doubt that he is at his best when in partnership with Baines on the left, but even when he is at left wing he has been struggling sometimes. Obviously it is no surprise for any manager in the world that Evertons strong side is the left, and at times we are very focused on our left side and easy to close down.
On saturday we simply had no alternatives to Piennar looking at the bench. Moyes even kept Naismith and Hitzlberger on the pitch although they were both dead after 65 minutes. But he simply had no alternatives from the bench.
So friends keep faith in Piennar with a little bit of a stronger team around him than on saturday, he will be much more of an assett
I have high hopes that we will get a right side with Mirallas and maybe Hibbert (since I have zero faith in Coleman both offensively and defensively). If we get a half decent right side it will open some space for our left.
And to Pienaars credit he seems to be really committed and put a shift in even when his tricks are not working.
I am living in Copenhagen and will be really surprised if Oviedo is making it a the Premier League level. I do admit that I was impressed with him on saturday, but I do not rate him nowhere near Pienaars class. (hope I will be proven wrong).
692 Posted 28/11/2012 at 15:36:59
No doubt that he is at his best when in partnership with Baines on the left but, even when he is at left wing, he has been struggling sometimes. Obviously it is no surprise for any manager in the world that Everton's strong side is the left, and at times we are very focused on our left side and easy to close down.
I have high hopes that we will get a right side with Mirallas and maybe Hibbert (since I have zero faith in Coleman both offensively and defensively). If we get a half-decent right side it will open some space for our left.
And to Pienaar's credit, he seems to be really committed and put a shift in even when his tricks are not working.
I am living in Copenhagen and will be really surprised if Oviedo is making it at the Premier League level. I do admit that I was impressed with him on Saturday, but I do not rate him nowhere near Pienaar's class. (I hope I will be proven wrong.)
On Saturday we simply had no alternatives to Pienaar looking at the bench. Moyes even kept Naismith and Hitzlsperger on the pitch although they were both dead after 65 minutes. But he simply had no alternatives from the bench.
So friends keep faith in Pienaar with a little bit of a stronger team around him than on Saturday, he will be much more of an asset.
694 Posted 28/11/2012 at 15:47:26
I know you love your stats, but using them to support the continued inclusion of an out of form player, doesn't really stack up.
Contrary to popular opinion, I actually though Pienaar had a really good first half last week and he should be included solely on that basis. Oviedo is however snapping at his heels, whether its on a single performance or not.
704 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:35:42
He didn't make a challenge when he was sent off.
709 Posted 28/11/2012 at 17:04:30
711 Posted 28/11/2012 at 17:08:36
Stop blaming the ref Pienaar should take full responsibility he knew the repercussions with the Derby looming.
777 Posted 28/11/2012 at 23:10:00
877 Posted 29/11/2012 at 14:56:10
Yes, Pienaar has been out of form recently but last night was (quite literally) a man-of-the-match performance but I see not a word of humble pie on this page. Maybe word got back to him and he needed the prod of threads like this but if that is the case credit where it is due, surely?
By the way, his sending off at QPR was an utter farce (as have been so many other decisions to cost us a bundle of points and even more confidence already this season). He was on a yellow but there was no tackle and even if there was the tiniest of contact it was with him pulling away from any possible challenge.
894 Posted 29/11/2012 at 17:12:56
985 Posted 30/11/2012 at 09:03:27
Mirallas & Gibson will make a big difference when they're properly fit. Form is temporary....
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.