Jelavic & Naismith

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Just wondering, we got Naismith after Jelavic seemingly said that he wanted him in due to their prior partnership. I can't watch the games, so I was just wondering:

Have we played those two alongside each other as they wanted, or were used to, and/or regularly?

Or have we only tried them one at a time, barring substitutions?

Or were they good together in a system Moyes don't want to use?

Nothing bad intended, was just wondering as I can't watch the games regularly and I seem to remember this one from ages ago...

Lev Vellene, Norway     Posted 08/12/2012 at 01:01:41

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Peter Laverty
936 Posted 08/12/2012 at 08:30:36
Naismith is gash and Moyes plays him out on the right where he is even more ineffectual. Hope this helps.
Zaid Omar
939 Posted 08/12/2012 at 08:36:25
Naismith lacks pace, and at the moment he also lacks confidence and composure in the final third. There was one particular instance in the match against Norwich when we were 1 up with a few minutes to play and he missed a simple pass to Jelavic who was free in the box. That would have killed the game.

Kunal Desai
940 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:00:16
Zaid - I was sat in the lower Bullens and had the perfect views, all Naismith had to do was roll the ball and Jelavic would have been in. Dare I say he could even have steadied himself and taken time over it. It was shocking sitting in the stands and witnessing how he mis-directed that pass so badly.
Matt Traynor
941 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:09:21
I'll no doubt get slated for it, but bear in mind Jelavic and Naismith's partnership was in the SPL. My point being the defenders in a lower Premier team are probably a step up from the defenders in the lower SPL teams.

Many fans questioned whether Jelavic could make the step up to the EPL. Well, January - May he did. Now he's looking like a fish out of water. Perhaps he's dropping his play down to Naismith's level.

I can't recall the exact game, but I do recall seeing a through ball from Naismith to Jelavic that was instinctive, and I thought "that's the partnership working". Then I saw that horrendous lobbed pass against Norwich and I was back to thinking we've been sold a pup.

David Hallwood
950 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:46:49
It's got to be remembered that right mid is Moyes's bush trucker trial; every player gets a run out there whether they're midfielders or right footers. Naismith clearly isn't a right mid, but then neither is Osman or Coleman; both have played there many times and have looked equally gash.

I have stated this before: give a player a season to settle down before judging them, look at Fellaini who even last season TWebbers were slagging him, and when he first came he was being called the worst player we had ever signed.

To my mind he looks like a forward, probably a squad player as an impact sub, a bit like our Vic.

Brian Waring
952 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:55:55
For some reason, Jelavic has started to drop deep, pulling out wide, we don't want that, he needs to be in and around the penalty box. Either Moyes has instructed him to work more for the team, or he doesn't feel like he is getting any service, so has started going looking for the ball.
Nick Entwistle
954 Posted 08/12/2012 at 10:21:46
Naismith isn't gash. McFadden was gash. Beattie was gash. Naismith is alright, and will improve. Not first XI yet, but for a free he was the right signing.

Lev, why can't you watch the games? Are you being outvoted in your family and have to watch the RS instead?

Ciarán McGlone
955 Posted 08/12/2012 at 10:54:19
Naismith should count himself very lucky that he's earning Premier League wages.

Let's dismiss the myth that these players are 'free' — signing-on bonus and wages. Not free.

Utter gash.

Oliver Molloy
958 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:19:41
Moyes has Jelavic doing stuff that he did with all the strikers he has brought to the club.

Jelavic is an out-an-out striker who should be in the box, not running all over the place. Another striker you can see match by match becoming demoralized!
Nick Entwistle
959 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:32:00
Premier League players earn money shock!

Myth exposed as lie to keep gash players sweet with fans.

Norway still without dedicated Everton channel sensation.
Ciarán McGlone
960 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:37:59
As always Nick, you appear to have left out your point.

Answers on a postcard.

Tony J Williams
963 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:54:37
Oliver, running about in the final third is the very least I expect from a professional striker, so should Moyes.
Steve Smith
968 Posted 08/12/2012 at 12:07:21
I agree with Oliver, Jela seems to be coming deeper and deeper looking for the ball.

Naismith is struggling a bit at the moment, but he's been man enough to admit his mistakes, and I think he's got the character to make it with us, I'm prepared to be patient with him for now.
Phil McKeown
972 Posted 08/12/2012 at 12:49:23
I'm a bit surprised by everyone's reaction on this forum to Naismith.

He is 4 months into the season at a new club at a higher level with a different style of football. Furthermore, he is being played out of position and has just returned from a horrific injury that will take at least 6 months to regain proper fitness and sharpness.

Give him a chance and catch a grip people, he has quality if used right.

Simon Harris
973 Posted 08/12/2012 at 12:37:38
Like Nick (#954), I think Naismith will improve and Moyes obviously believes he doesn't have many alternatives in the squad right now which is more worrying.

My only observation about Jelavic is that he's appeared flat-footed and slow to react at times this season.

Last season he was always switched on, anticipating a mistake, a deflection or ricochet and reacting ahead of the defender, not caught on his heels as sometimes witnessed this season.

Oliver Molloy
976 Posted 08/12/2012 at 13:43:36
Tony @ 963

Yes, Tony, but I am sure you know full well what I mean.

Steavey Buckley
990 Posted 08/12/2012 at 15:13:10
If Naismith does not come up to scratch, Moyes will ship him out at the end of the season, similar to what happened to McFadden.
Drew O'Neall
002 Posted 08/12/2012 at 16:07:25
Naismith played at least 50% of his games on the right side or in midfield for Rangers.

Jelavic has done the 'dirty work' for us as well as loitering in the box since he's joined. He has no pace or the ability to beat a man, the least he can do is win/hold up the ball and lay it off when we are in our own half. When that's done his next job is to get around the 6 yard box.

I suspect the reason for his drop off is that we have so many players in and around the opposition box, and our oppponents defend deeper, with our new found attacking style the gaps he used to exploit are no longer there and the final ball becomes harder to receive.

Having said that he has missed several gilt-edged chances but my criteria for measuring forwards and forward play is how many chances they/we create, what happens then can be just down to the toss of a coin, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't.

Paul Ferry
019 Posted 08/12/2012 at 18:43:54
Can I just say that this "he'll come good, give him time to find his feet" stuff is (in my opinion at any rate) a tad daft and a little too apologetic (#972 and a few more besides).

I quote: "He is 4 months into the season at a new club at a higher level with a different style of football. Furthermore, he is being played out of position and has just returned from a horrific injury that will take at least 6 months to regain proper fitness and sharpness."

Ah bless, he's not yet up to scratch and the poor little fella is playing different higher-level footie. I'm sorry, that ain't tugging at these heartsleeves. He's a pro, FFS, and his gaffer picks him ,week-in and week-out, despite the fact that he's in the running for shittiest players of the season so far award.

Said Gaffer would not be picking him to start all the time if he was that distance from 'proper fitness and sharpness'. And check, he is not always subbed and when he is it tends to be very deep into the game.

And we ought not to be carrying him; there are people on the bench I would put ahead of him. I would love to be proved wrong in say 12 months from now, but I think:

(1) he will never ever be the quality prem player that we sorely need;
(2) he has been little better than medicore up to now;
(3) he gives the ball away way too often;
(4) he does not deserve to start week-in and week-out and in fact shouldn't if he is bless still short of full fitness; and
(5) If he is no yet fully fit then he can jolly well work hard in training which I'm sure he does and come on from the bench with 20 mins to go as an... erm, 'impact' sub.

Pat Finegan
032 Posted 08/12/2012 at 20:23:31
Paul, he isn't meant to be a starter right now. The only reason he is in the team is that Mirallas is out injured. Neither you, me nor Davey himself wants him starting, week-in, week-out, right now but I think he has done an acceptable job of filling a vacancy. I don't want him keeping Mirallas out of the side but I'd be happy to keep him coming on late. He works hard and, with fresh legs, can be a nightmare for a tired defender in the last 20 mins.

I think this is the difference between us and The Manc clubs and Chelsea: if Samir Nasri gets injured, they're forced to bring on Scott Sinclair. They still have an absolutely top class XI on the pitch whereas we have a weak link. Our first XI is close to the quality of City's, if not equal. Our next XI is closer to QPR.

Danny Broderick
034 Posted 08/12/2012 at 20:52:53
Let's give the lad a chance. I know he hasn't set the world alight, but he has popped up with some useful goals, and I'm sure he will be a useful squad player once he is fully up to speed and settled in.

I remember we signed Paul Rideout from Scotland, and he was crap for a couple of seasons until 1994-95.
Paul Ferry
049 Posted 08/12/2012 at 23:56:17
Good point, Pat, but he also started games before Kev's knock, but you're on the ball, I think, he might have spent more time on the bench if Kev was in one piece.
Edward Simpson
065 Posted 09/12/2012 at 04:07:02
Bloody hell, the guy isn't gash. Clearly lacking a cutting edge but so is Jelavic at the moment. Naismith has got himself in some good positions and has scored 3 goals. He's also playing in the wrong position.

I do believe with time he will come good, he's not amazing but when given time I think he will be similar to Osman. He badly needs to work on his first touch, at times it really lets him down, and his shot but I could say that for most players in our side at the moment.

Considering he's free, I'm actually quite glad we've got him; we've missed Coleman and Mirallas through injury recently and I thought Naismith has done a decent job – not done anything special, I might add, but getting better as time goes on.

Peter Barry
066 Posted 09/12/2012 at 05:39:08
Jelavic the 'instinctive' striker of last season has now 'benefited' from closed and pre-season coaching from the 'Tactically Brilliant' Moyes/Round team.

The amazing results are now being seen every game.
Peter Barry
067 Posted 09/12/2012 at 05:44:17
Naismith of course is completely useless — but hey, he's a Jock and in Davey's books that's good enough.
Sam Hoare
073 Posted 09/12/2012 at 07:54:56
Naismith has been mediocre in a good team but he's only playing there because of injuries to others, namely mirallas. Wether or not he will get any better is debatable but the fact is that he acts as cover in a squad that has little depth.

Spurs lose bale and bring in Dempsey or siggurdsson. We lose mirallas and bring in Naismith. Squad depth is where we lack.

John Crawley
104 Posted 09/12/2012 at 12:34:54
Saw glimpses of the Naismith/Jelavic partnership in the second half against Norwich when Naismith moved into that role just off Jelavic. He's too slow to play on the flanks and doesn't offer much there. He's got an eye for a goal and he has decent movement, so for me if he is going to be anything its a back up for Fellaini in that role off Jelavic.

With regard to the current run he is getting I don't understand why Barkley isn't getting a run of games on the right hand side instead of him.
Brent Stephens
105 Posted 09/12/2012 at 13:11:20
Barry, just about to go to the game and all geared up for it, all positive and you post that negative stuff. Give it a fucking rest mate.
Noel Lynam
276 Posted 09/12/2012 at 21:13:36
Peter @ 066,

Jelavic certainly 'benefitted' from their coaching with an 'instinctive' goal today.

Applying your flawless logic, I assume you are happy to credit Moyes and Round's coaching for Fellaini's goalscoring form this season.

Kieran Fitzgerald
359 Posted 10/12/2012 at 11:38:18
I'm guessing a little here but could we not push Osman out wide right as he can play with both feet and then just play Oveido in Osman's central midfield creative role?
Ciarán McGlone
362 Posted 10/12/2012 at 11:46:25
Osman? Wide Right? where have you been for the last 10 years?

I agree with the suggestion that Oviedo, may have the skills to play centrally..but h looks so comfortable on the left that i'd rather he just played there. With Pienaar looking 'lacklustre' - i'd like to see Oviedo one side and Mirallas the other...

Osman has been doing reasoanbly well in the he's not my biggest concern at the minute..

Eventually i'd like to see Barkley given a go next to Gibson (if Gibson gets over his fitness demons that is)..

Kieran Fitzgerald
363 Posted 10/12/2012 at 11:57:26
Fair point about Pienaar, Ciaran. You would wonder where his head is at the moment. I would like to see Oviedo given a proper run out and I think Barkley sitting around doing nothing is ridiculous. Either give him a game or send him back out on loan.
Tony J Williams
365 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:07:24
The problem that Jelavic has now, is that Fellaini is getting into the same positions, whereas last season it was Jelavic on his own. Fellaini is scoring from the crosses/passes now, whereas Jelavic was the only one to receive them last season. 14 goals between them isn't a bad return.

I see Predictable Peter has found another cause to champion......doh!

Ben Jones
366 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:19:25
Disagree completely about Pienaar, he works his ass off and yesterday he got the goal as well as being involved in most of our good play. Plus his partnership with Baines should not be broken.

With Naismith, he's completely ineffective on the right, really is. He's only good in getting in scoring positions, and even then from the right, he's fluffed lots of chances. At least he's getting in them positions though.

Positives, I think he's looked good in the middle when ever he's played, although I think that was only against Norwich, and not even for the full game. And he's a squad player, not a first teamer. He's cover for Mirallas and Fellaini. Every club needs one.

We got him for free, he's versatile and we can sell him for a fee. Completely no harm done in signing him in my book.

Ciarán McGlone
369 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:31:24
'Working his ass off' really isn't good enough.

It was a brilliantly taken goal... but up until that point I was shaking my head everytime he gave the ball away or gave away a stupid foul.

Jim Knightley
372 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:47:55
We really cannot move Osman wide — he is a good player in the middle of the park, and a Championship player when placed out wide. If Osman had only ever been used in the middle, then he wouldn't have come in for half the criticism he has over the years.

I also don't think we should think about taking Pienaar out at the moment; he has been in and out of games too much lately, but he is still our most creative player without Mirallas on the pitch, and whilst Oviedo has done well in spurts, I don't think he will improve on Pienaar, especially because of Pienaar's brilliant relationship with Baines.

In an ideal world, Oviedo would play on the right hand side — that is where our primary issue is, as Oviedo, Mirallas and Pienaar are all best coming from a left hand position (I say Mirallas based on some brief segments on the left for us, and his past career although I know it is a difficult statement to authenticate), whereas only Mirallas can really play from the right.

Our other right hand side options (Anichebe, Naismith, Osman, Coleman) are all unnatural players on the right, and we suffer when they play there. I think there are two priorities in January; a right mid, and a central midfielder.

Jim Knightley
373 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:58:21
Also Peter Barry... typically idiotic post from you. I suppose a lot of players have suffered from the coaching of their managers this season then? And no Everton players have improved during their time at the club, have they?

James Marshall
396 Posted 10/12/2012 at 16:00:16
I bet you lot are shit-hot at Football Manager.

We're 4th. End.

Winston Williamson
422 Posted 10/12/2012 at 19:26:19
I agree, Jelavic has suffered due to Felliani's superb form. Jelavic is suited to Everton due to two factors we have not had in a striker for years and years, hard working and goalscoring. Jelavic has looked different as he's not bagging goals as frequantly.

Last season Jelavic's goal ratio was 0.68 per game (16games 11 goals). This season the ratio is 0.37 per game.

Compared to Felliani's 0.11 goals per game last season and 0.53 goals per game this season.

Winston Williamson
423 Posted 10/12/2012 at 19:37:01
Our style of play is slightly different as a result of Fellaini's form and dominance. However, Jelavic remains essential to the way we play as his running and movement are second to none.

Naismith is a Cahill-type player and would probably make a good partnership with Jelavic, but would you prefer Jelavic and Fellaini or Jelavic and Naismith?

In regard to Barkley, I would prefer to see him as Osman's understudy, learning from and replacing Osman long term.

Richard Reeves
521 Posted 11/12/2012 at 15:20:01
Naismith, although not as gifted as other players in the squad, is a grafter and has an attacking mentality which I like. He does seem to find himself in good positions but lacks a good touch or overhits a pass.

I can understand why Moyes is playing Fellaini up front as he is playing out of his skin but what happens next season when we've sold Fellaini and have concentrated our play for an entire season around the big man being a forward or just behind the forward only for him not to be here? Then we will have to try other players in his position who've had little experience there.

Make no mistake: Fellaini will be gone, whether we make fourth or not, so Moyes needs to mix it up a bit for that position and give Naismith some time there and even Barkley. Naismith is going to do nothing on the flanks but maybe Moyes sees him as someone to do a job until some funds become available (through player sales).

I don't see why Fellaini can't be dropped back to play alongside Gibson from time to time, which is his best position, in my opinion. When Gibson is in the team, it allows Fellaini to get forward at times so he can still be effective in the air and around the opponents' defenders.
Gaute Lie
613 Posted 11/12/2012 at 22:11:22
He seems slow and lightweight. However, adaption from the SPL etc., he could turn out well, if if if.

Lev; you could watch it on the internet..

Will Schoefmann
795 Posted 12/12/2012 at 21:48:31
I think Naisy will come good. Maybe not prior to Christmas but towards the end of the season. While he is looking slow, he's still recovering from his injury.

I may be wrong on this but was it Moyesie who said something about expecting 6-8 goals out of Naismith? He's at 3 so far and it's prior to the Holiday season; for a squad player/sub he's contributed and might I add to our "successful" outing in the derby.

Jelavic is looking quite frustrated. In fact during the Spurs game I could recall him being offside maybe 2-3 times, which may be an indicator of the lack of service he's receiving with the flanks and Felli being our main points of attack. With out attacking directly up the middle he is basically unused and roaming around while Felli picks up and distributes the ball out wide or Bainesy/Coleman break up the wings.

In short we've not seen much of the partnership but, if Felli was dropped into midfield (re:post #521) with GIbbo, and Moyesie played the pair up as a duo, then we may see something once (if) Naismith hits fitness.

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