Just wondering, we got Naismith after Jelavic seemingly said that he wanted him in due to their prior partnership. I can't watch the games, so I was just wondering:
Have we played those two alongside each other as they wanted, or were used to, and/or regularly?
Or have we only tried them one at a time, barring substitutions?
Or were they good together in a system Moyes don't want to use?
Nothing bad intended, was just wondering as I can't watch the games regularly and I seem to remember this one from ages ago...
Lev Vellene, Posted 08/12/2012 at 01:01:41
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936 Posted 08/12/2012 at 08:30:36
939 Posted 08/12/2012 at 08:36:25
940 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:00:16
941 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:09:21
Many fans questioned whether Jelavic could make the step up to the EPL. Well, January - May he did. Now he's looking like a fish out of water. Perhaps he's dropping his play down to Naismith's level.
I can't recall the exact game, but I do recall seeing a through ball from Naismith to Jelavic that was instinctive, and I thought "that's the partnership working". Then I saw that horrendous lobbed pass against Norwich and I was back to thinking we've been sold a pup.
950 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:46:49
I have stated this before: give a player a season to settle down before judging them, look at Fellaini who even last season TWebbers were slagging him, and when he first came he was being called the worst player we had ever signed.
To my mind he looks like a forward, probably a squad player as an impact sub, a bit like our Vic.
952 Posted 08/12/2012 at 09:55:55
954 Posted 08/12/2012 at 10:21:46
Lev, why can't you watch the games? Are you being outvoted in your family and have to watch the RS instead?
955 Posted 08/12/2012 at 10:54:19
Let's dismiss the myth that these players are 'free' — signing-on bonus and wages. Not free.
958 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:19:41
Jelavic is an out-an-out striker who should be in the box, not running all over the place. Another striker you can see match by match becoming demoralized!
959 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:32:00
Myth exposed as lie to keep gash players sweet with fans.
Norway still without dedicated Everton channel sensation.
960 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:37:59
Answers on a postcard.
963 Posted 08/12/2012 at 11:54:37
968 Posted 08/12/2012 at 12:07:21
Naismith is struggling a bit at the moment, but he's been man enough to admit his mistakes, and I think he's got the character to make it with us, I'm prepared to be patient with him for now.
972 Posted 08/12/2012 at 12:49:23
He is 4 months into the season at a new club at a higher level with a different style of football. Furthermore, he is being played out of position and has just returned from a horrific injury that will take at least 6 months to regain proper fitness and sharpness.
Give him a chance and catch a grip people, he has quality if used right.
973 Posted 08/12/2012 at 12:37:38
My only observation about Jelavic is that he's appeared flat-footed and slow to react at times this season.
Last season he was always switched on, anticipating a mistake, a deflection or ricochet and reacting ahead of the defender, not caught on his heels as sometimes witnessed this season.
976 Posted 08/12/2012 at 13:43:36
Yes, Tony, but I am sure you know full well what I mean.
990 Posted 08/12/2012 at 15:13:10
002 Posted 08/12/2012 at 16:07:25
Jelavic has done the 'dirty work' for us as well as loitering in the box since he's joined. He has no pace or the ability to beat a man, the least he can do is win/hold up the ball and lay it off when we are in our own half. When that's done his next job is to get around the 6 yard box.
I suspect the reason for his drop off is that we have so many players in and around the opposition box, and our oppponents defend deeper, with our new found attacking style the gaps he used to exploit are no longer there and the final ball becomes harder to receive.
Having said that he has missed several gilt-edged chances but my criteria for measuring forwards and forward play is how many chances they/we create, what happens then can be just down to the toss of a coin, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't.
019 Posted 08/12/2012 at 18:43:54
I quote: "He is 4 months into the season at a new club at a higher level with a different style of football. Furthermore, he is being played out of position and has just returned from a horrific injury that will take at least 6 months to regain proper fitness and sharpness."
Ah bless, he's not yet up to scratch and the poor little fella is playing different higher-level footie. I'm sorry, that ain't tugging at these heartsleeves. He's a pro, FFS, and his gaffer picks him ,week-in and week-out, despite the fact that he's in the running for shittiest players of the season so far award.
Said Gaffer would not be picking him to start all the time if he was that distance from 'proper fitness and sharpness'. And check, he is not always subbed and when he is it tends to be very deep into the game.
And we ought not to be carrying him; there are people on the bench I would put ahead of him. I would love to be proved wrong in say 12 months from now, but I think:
(1) he will never ever be the quality prem player that we sorely need;
(2) he has been little better than medicore up to now;
(3) he gives the ball away way too often;
(4) he does not deserve to start week-in and week-out and in fact shouldn't if he is bless still short of full fitness; and
(5) If he is no yet fully fit then he can jolly well work hard in training which I'm sure he does and come on from the bench with 20 mins to go as an... erm, 'impact' sub.
032 Posted 08/12/2012 at 20:23:31
I think this is the difference between us and The Manc clubs and Chelsea: if Samir Nasri gets injured, they're forced to bring on Scott Sinclair. They still have an absolutely top class XI on the pitch whereas we have a weak link. Our first XI is close to the quality of City's, if not equal. Our next XI is closer to QPR.
034 Posted 08/12/2012 at 20:52:53
I remember we signed Paul Rideout from Scotland, and he was crap for a couple of seasons until 1994-95.
049 Posted 08/12/2012 at 23:56:17
065 Posted 09/12/2012 at 04:07:02
I do believe with time he will come good, he's not amazing but when given time I think he will be similar to Osman. He badly needs to work on his first touch, at times it really lets him down, and his shot but I could say that for most players in our side at the moment.
Considering he's free, I'm actually quite glad we've got him; we've missed Coleman and Mirallas through injury recently and I thought Naismith has done a decent job – not done anything special, I might add, but getting better as time goes on.
066 Posted 09/12/2012 at 05:39:08
The amazing results are now being seen every game.
067 Posted 09/12/2012 at 05:44:17
073 Posted 09/12/2012 at 07:54:56
Spurs lose bale and bring in Dempsey or siggurdsson. We lose mirallas and bring in Naismith. Squad depth is where we lack.
104 Posted 09/12/2012 at 12:34:54
With regard to the current run he is getting I don't understand why Barkley isn't getting a run of games on the right hand side instead of him.
105 Posted 09/12/2012 at 13:11:20
276 Posted 09/12/2012 at 21:13:36
Jelavic certainly 'benefitted' from their coaching with an 'instinctive' goal today.
Applying your flawless logic, I assume you are happy to credit Moyes and Round's coaching for Fellaini's goalscoring form this season.
359 Posted 10/12/2012 at 11:38:18
362 Posted 10/12/2012 at 11:46:25
I agree with the suggestion that Oviedo, may have the skills to play centrally..but h looks so comfortable on the left that i'd rather he just played there. With Pienaar looking 'lacklustre' - i'd like to see Oviedo one side and Mirallas the other...
Osman has been doing reasoanbly well in the middle..so he's not my biggest concern at the minute..
Eventually i'd like to see Barkley given a go next to Gibson (if Gibson gets over his fitness demons that is)..
363 Posted 10/12/2012 at 11:57:26
365 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:07:24
I see Predictable Peter has found another cause to champion......doh!
366 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:19:25
With Naismith, he's completely ineffective on the right, really is. He's only good in getting in scoring positions, and even then from the right, he's fluffed lots of chances. At least he's getting in them positions though.
Positives, I think he's looked good in the middle when ever he's played, although I think that was only against Norwich, and not even for the full game. And he's a squad player, not a first teamer. He's cover for Mirallas and Fellaini. Every club needs one.
We got him for free, he's versatile and we can sell him for a fee. Completely no harm done in signing him in my book.
369 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:31:24
It was a brilliantly taken goal... but up until that point I was shaking my head everytime he gave the ball away or gave away a stupid foul.
372 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:47:55
I also don't think we should think about taking Pienaar out at the moment; he has been in and out of games too much lately, but he is still our most creative player without Mirallas on the pitch, and whilst Oviedo has done well in spurts, I don't think he will improve on Pienaar, especially because of Pienaar's brilliant relationship with Baines.
In an ideal world, Oviedo would play on the right hand side — that is where our primary issue is, as Oviedo, Mirallas and Pienaar are all best coming from a left hand position (I say Mirallas based on some brief segments on the left for us, and his past career although I know it is a difficult statement to authenticate), whereas only Mirallas can really play from the right.
Our other right hand side options (Anichebe, Naismith, Osman, Coleman) are all unnatural players on the right, and we suffer when they play there. I think there are two priorities in January; a right mid, and a central midfielder.
373 Posted 10/12/2012 at 12:58:21
396 Posted 10/12/2012 at 16:00:16
We're 4th. End.
422 Posted 10/12/2012 at 19:26:19
Last season Jelavic's goal ratio was 0.68 per game (16games 11 goals). This season the ratio is 0.37 per game.
Compared to Felliani's 0.11 goals per game last season and 0.53 goals per game this season.
423 Posted 10/12/2012 at 19:37:01
Naismith is a Cahill-type player and would probably make a good partnership with Jelavic, but would you prefer Jelavic and Fellaini or Jelavic and Naismith?
In regard to Barkley, I would prefer to see him as Osman's understudy, learning from and replacing Osman long term.
521 Posted 11/12/2012 at 15:20:01
I can understand why Moyes is playing Fellaini up front as he is playing out of his skin but what happens next season when we've sold Fellaini and have concentrated our play for an entire season around the big man being a forward or just behind the forward only for him not to be here? Then we will have to try other players in his position who've had little experience there.
Make no mistake: Fellaini will be gone, whether we make fourth or not, so Moyes needs to mix it up a bit for that position and give Naismith some time there and even Barkley. Naismith is going to do nothing on the flanks but maybe Moyes sees him as someone to do a job until some funds become available (through player sales).
I don't see why Fellaini can't be dropped back to play alongside Gibson from time to time, which is his best position, in my opinion. When Gibson is in the team, it allows Fellaini to get forward at times so he can still be effective in the air and around the opponents' defenders.
613 Posted 11/12/2012 at 22:11:22
Lev; you could watch it on the internet..
795 Posted 12/12/2012 at 21:48:31
I may be wrong on this but was it Moyesie who said something about expecting 6-8 goals out of Naismith? He's at 3 so far and it's prior to the Holiday season; for a squad player/sub he's contributed and might I add to our "successful" outing in the derby.
Jelavic is looking quite frustrated. In fact during the Spurs game I could recall him being offside maybe 2-3 times, which may be an indicator of the lack of service he's receiving with the flanks and Felli being our main points of attack. With out attacking directly up the middle he is basically unused and roaming around while Felli picks up and distributes the ball out wide or Bainesy/Coleman break up the wings.
In short we've not seen much of the partnership but, if Felli was dropped into midfield (re:post #521) with GIbbo, and Moyesie played the pair up as a duo, then we may see something once (if) Naismith hits fitness.
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