Ziegler linked as Baines speculation continues

I think we should hang on to Baines one more year if possible. We could sell him for the same amount or more next season and by then Evra would be ready for back up roll. I don't think Baines would get as much playing time with Utd until Evra steps down his roll. Perfect scenario would be a good 3 year partnership with Pienaar before he gets over the hill (Pienaar that is) but I suspect Utd will get their man.

I was concerned the minute that the players we were linked too actually had a chance of arriving! Where else would they have got all the money required to pay three signing on fees and the £3 to 5 million required for Pienaar's transfer?

Furthermore, there was no way Pranjic would sign for Everton if he was not guaranteed first team football. Just a shame it looks like it will be Utd as they love screwing us. I think any hopes for a fee in the region of £15 million is laughable; we will be lucky to get it to £12M.

Utd don't pay as high as City granted, but I would be annoyed if we let Baines go for just £12 million. He is easily in our top few players and an England international with several years left in his career.

Moyes has said we don't sell easy... if we do lose Baines, I hope that rings ture. I want closer to £20M than £12M.

Come to think about it, a year or two back, people were putting £20 million on Rodwell...

^Just wishful thinking Russell, like the £50 million for Rooney.

Would be surprised if initial fee is just 12m, unless of course the player himself is agitating for the move which seems unlikely from Leighton. If it does happen more likely to be 16m initial plus 4m add ons. Of that I reckon 6m (plus the add ons) to bank and 10m for moyes to spend on pienaar and a new left back.

£12 mil rising to £16 mil is an absolute joke. The papers seem quite content to tout the 'past it', very average Cardozo at £16 mil...but when it comes to England's finest full-back then seem to think they can agitate a cut-price deal.

This is a real test for Moyes. Personally I would say keep Baines unless we get £25 mil. That won't happen, but he is such a quality player and his attitude is perfect, I'd hate to lose the lad.

I wouldn't entertain anything below £20 mil with add-ons, and every penny of that has to go to Moyes. I don't see why Baines would wanna go to Man Utd though... let's face it, Evra is to Fergie what Cahill is to Moyes: untouchable.

We'll hang in for £8 million plus Scholes

Let's keep it all simple... KENWRIGHT OUT.

Obviously not Scholes but Ferguson will definitely try a part exchange, I am just relieved Park and Rafael have already left OT. With the exception of Rooney which is never going to happen, which of that current side would you want? I think it is the worst Utd side since he Ferguson got there. It is just so disappointing that we cannot keep hold of Baines, try and get a few fringe players off the books to fund Peinnar and get Rodellega. A good start to the season and frankly anything is possible.

In my view Leighton Baines is easily in the same league as this lot:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/07/06/2562976/fabio-coentrao-the-top-10-most-expensive-defenders-of-all

Then on the other hand Jordi Alba just went to Barcelona for only €14M!! Valencia fans must be livid!!!

Just like Lescott I believe Moyes will stick to his guns with this one. But then again maybe he has learned how much that sort of transfer battle can unsettle the team at the start of the season.

Personally I would take £20M and wish the lad well, if he wanted to go. However, if he is happy to stay then we should keep him whatever they offer.

I don't think anything will happen this week regardless of what the amazingly reliable Daily Star claim. Baines along with the other international players are on extended summer breaks and are not due back in training until next week or the week after and I'd be surprised if Baines doesn't appear at training to see what the mood is like for the forthcoming season.

I believe Moyes will have talks with Baines and detect if there is any possible uncertainty in his attitude (he may have been swayed). If he does believe the sale is for the best then a deal will be thrashed out over the next few weeks and not at 11:45pm on the 31st August.

I'm also certain Baines won't throw the dummy out and do the 'transfer request' business if there is a bid. Baines seems the gentleman type and has the utmost respect for Everton. I believe Baines and Moyes will talk and I believe Baines will say he wants to stay.

The only way I see a deal being forced through is if the banks blackmail Kenwright to sell if there is a bid in the pipeline (eg... "Okay, sell him and you can spend half the money on new players; otherwise, we call in the overdraft in full"). But, I repeat, I think Baines will stay!

If he goes, good luck to him. As a replacement, I heard that Celtic full back is decent... or Cissoko or Martin Olsson?

Steve - I don't think you'd find much argument if we managed to sell him for £20m.

If all we can sell Baines for is £12M then we should keep him. We can't replace him for that and we can't by much talent with it. £20M would probably be worth it but isn't it sad how we have fallen to this position.

I would be very sorry to see Baines go though, he's a model professional, a top class full back and a great servant of the club.

Why do you think we got Gibson for the comedy fee we did? You could not buy a Tranmere player for the fee we got him for.

Does the Daily Star have it in for us or something? This seems to be the only paper (pff) that continues on a daily basis with this story. One day it's £5 mill, next day it's £25 mill, then £15 mill... now £12 mill. Are they just making these leads up?

Sounds like anyone could get a job as a journo for them - BREAKING NEWS: Baines in United talks and about to sign on free transfer. Bunch of idiots trying to unsettle our hero.

David Moyes and BK will do what the Bank TELLS them to do.

Paul, I think it was because he was nearly out of contract, wasn't getting a game, had seen a 38-year-old come out of retirement to go ahead of him in the pecking order, and had recently been disciplined for going out the night before a game.

Alternatively, I could be a conspiracy theorist who believes that United agreed a deal to sell us an unwanted player worth about £500k for about £500k only if we sold them a player worth about £15m for about £15m.

Will Man Utd ownership get-up offer £20 mil in their current financial state while they still have Evra? I think Baines is better then him, but not miles better. What would they do with Evra?

And where are all the like rumours about Evra departing Man Utd? Wouldn't him going and Baines coming in go hand-in-hand? Baines going to Man Utd to sit and watch Evra or vice versa? I don't get this rumor. Baines generating interest I get, but why to Man Utd?

I'd go with Jimmy Kelly's view. Ferguson dumped Van Nistelrooy and Beckham in their primes and just sat Berbatov on the bench — the EPL's joint-highest goal scorer from two seasons back. Given that, who the fuck is Gibson?

And right after we got him, didn't Moyes or one of his assistants mention in the press that Gibson needs a swift kick to keep him on track?

And again, why Baines to Man Utd? He's better than Evra, but Evra is still pretty good. Would Fergy put Baines in midfield?

Don't care what you say, when you see the prices people pay for lower league players and what the likes of Huddersfield want for Rhodes, what we paid for Gibson was still silly. The lad is still young, an international, and has Champions League experience of the highest order. There was a deal for a non-league player similar to what we paid for him last season.

James, who the fuck is Gibson, the lad was a massive reason for our change of fortune when he signed, he played that holding role Better than anyone at the club has for a long time and I include Fellaini in that shout too.

I'm not doubting we got a bargain Paul, just think it's ridiculous how some people are suggesting that somehow selling us an unwanted player who was nowhere near their first choice team and would have been out of contract in 6 months anyway would have been a 'downpayment' for one of one of our players. It was a good deal for all concerned, simple as that.

I agree with Jimmy Kelly (085).

The transfer of Gibson is entirely irrelevant to the proposed transfer of Baines. Yes - we got a bargain. That does not entitle United to a bargain in return. They undervalued Gibson - well played Everton for negotiating that deal. Now if they want Baines they can have him for £20m, with at least £15m of it paid NOW! Otherwise they can bugger off!

I agree Jimny, but something goes on somewhere In my opinion, we have had Howard,Gibson and Neville off them for something in the region of £9M and no matter what anyone may think of those three players, for what they have offered so far to our club has been one hell of a snip and Fergie does not do stuff like that for nowt, it's only my opinion though.

Paul, I took James 'who the fuck is Gibson' comment a different way. I thought he meant if Fergie can come down hard on Nistelrooy, Beckham and Berbatov, then he isn't going to be bothered about the likes of Gibson.

I might be wrong though.

In that case, I agree with you.

Alasdair £20M dream on mate, but he is worth at least that if you consider the going rate of orher players, hopefully he won't go, if he does expect an undisclosed fee or one full of add ons.

Paul (082) - There was some speculation that Gibby came to us cheap as the front end of some deal involving Baines going there before next season. All I was getting at is that Fergy dumped bigger players than him at ManU and Gibby's sale to us was nothing more than Fergy getting rid of.

A great deal for us, for as you said "he played that holding role Better than anyone at the club".

There is the small matter that Moyes has said, several times on record, that no offers for Baines have been made.

If Gibson really was a downpayment on Baines that would make Moyes a straight out liar wouldnt it? There would have been not only an offer for Baines but an agreement already reached.

Has Moyes got a track record of telling straight out lies to the fans?. I cant think of any times when he has off the top of my head, but, I'm sure I'm in the right place to be corrected on that if he has!.

The Gibson story doesn't stack up on the basis he was out of contract this summer anyway, and that if we didn't want to pay the deal we could have signed him on ore contract terms with united getting nowt. Sounds like a story to me.

£12m reported translates to £10m in reality with a bonus of Fergie saying nice things about us, which is vital because Jelavic keeping up the good work could mean another £10m in January.

Being only £5m down each year and being Utd's feeder club is a winner..... not often you can say that these days.

Davey Moyes and Alex Ferguson are supposed to have a good personal / professional relationship and there is a recurring rumour that the Mancs may be interested in Davey as a future manager. Under those circumstances is it conceivable that we may get some good deals when they are looking to off-load fringe players?

If that were true would it also make it more likely that they also won't try to screw us (relatively speaking) in negotiating for the likes of Leighton. Unfortunately, in our current position every one of our players has a price, and we just have to hope we get as much as we can if it becomes necessary.

Neither Rooney nor Lescott were sold to raise cash. They had their 'personal' reasons to want to play in Manchester. Arteta wasn't sold to raise cash. What happened to the cash that came to the club as a result of these moves is another matter. It certainly didn't go into a development fund. But this doesn't make us a selling club.

Every player in football has a price, and if 'personal terms' double a player's income, he is likely to request a transfer. So far, and there's a long way to go, neither Baines nor Fellaini have done that. But I think we've only got one more season to keep them with us.

Just scanning back - Gibson as a down payment for Baines? Ho bloody ho.

So Fergie and Davey met up at Burtonwood services early one damp morning, far away from the glamour seeking paparazzi (although Warrington isn't too far away), to plot the futures of the two clubs.

I love conspiracy theories, but I tend to go for the ones involving dead American presidents and English princesses. Sir Alec, Moyes and Burtonwood services? Give me a grassy knoll or tunnel in Paris and a white Fiat with Barcelona plates any day.

But an odd one may be in process. If we get Pienaar back, its going to be down to something between Mr Levi and Bill the Blue. Both masons?

Si, for a number of reasons I don't think that Utd will have Moyes as manager. However, I would hate him to go there mainly because I think it is the most poisonous of chalices in football.

All great football eras end and I believe that Man Utd's is nearly over. Ferguson will go soon; one failure to qualify for the champion's league will ruin them. Financially they are second best with who knows what problems. Does anyone think that Rangers are the only club in Britain who haven't been straight?

The next Utd manager will be a scapegoat and ,much as I have criticised him, I wouldn't want it to be David Moyes

Agree with you Andy. I was just trying to point out that there are potentially other factors at play when looking at the dealings between us and the Mancs. Personally have never liked them since I became aware how the media were fixated on them despite them being a moderate team for most of the 1980s, but having a good relationship with a wealthy club wouldn't be a bad thing if we could play it to our advantage sometimes. Don't want Leighton to go and don't think it is already a done deal, but if it does happen I want us to get top dollar (if we can).

The valuation of players is a tricky thing. Keep seeing posts saying 'if so-and-so is worth X then Baines has to be worth Y!' Supply and demand is what determines a players value. If someone with more money than sense takes a fancy to your particular wares and you really have no imperative to sell then you can hold-out and wait until they reach the level you want; if they are toying with the idea of speculating and you are deperate for quick cash then the boot is definitely on the other foot. As I think we may be in a weak bargaining position come the middle of August, a bit of goodwill may be all we have to encourage Fergie to loosen the purse-strings at Old Trafford.

Keith, Rooney,Lescott and Arteta weren't sold to raise cash! Ho Ho and another Ho, if we had not sold those players I doubt we would still be trading.
The banks wanted money back off us and something had to be raised by player sales, even Moyes has stated about the need to keep the bank happy last year.
Just you watch on deadline day Fellaini or Bainrs sold at 11.30pm.
It's only the fact this extra TV money is coming to us that we can possibly buy a couple of replacements before.
I hope I'm wrong but I would not bet on it.

Baines is an excellent player but not infallible. Some of his defending last season was poor. Yes his qualities on offence are as good as Ashley Cole's and that is what makes him so valuable. Zeigler is a back number and should not be considered. However if the money is right and Bainsey wants to go then let's hope that Moyes has quality in mind to replace him (and not Phil Neville or Distin).

Paul - you may have missed the point I was making. We don't put players up for sale. They do that themselves - aided and abetted by their agents of course. OK - EFC may have desperately needed the money, but the prime movers have been the players (including Pienaar), not the club.

If we got big money for Baines, we could use it to keep Pienaar, bring in a left back who is a good, solid defender rather than an attacking fullback, and also pay off some debt. Moyes hinted a few weeks ago he would have to do some wheeling and dealing for the club to progress. To compensate for the loss of Baines’ attacking qualities, Pienaar could press forward more if we get a left back who’s defensively dependable, but could we find one for the money available? Steven Naismith might also provide more attacking options on the right, so that we aren’t quite so reliant on the left.

Is Baines with teh squad in Austria at the moment?

Surely that would tell us everything?

Tom,

Not so sure you can play that conspiracy card: Baines, along with other players who laboured so hard in the early summer at the Euros have been given extended leave by the club and were not in the Austrian bootcamp.

Kinda makes you wonder about all this pre-season team-bonding blather when half of them are not even there!!!

As said only some of the non-Internationally tasked players went to Austria.

What's more relevant is that Utd start their money-spinning DHL-sponsored tour of everywhere next week in Durban and so far, according to Moyes, there's not been a sniff for Bainsey.

So, unless SAF gets his skates on and is prepared to make the offer that can't be refused, Baines isn't going out with the Utd squad which was Sir Alex's stated intent. If nothing else, the message has to be getting across to Baines that either Utd aren't that interested or they expect him to force the issue. Can't see the lad being too impressed with that!.

I wouldn't think there is much of an issue with partial team training... can't let the others slack off just because they weren't on international duty.